Mariano Rivera, Roy Halladay, Edgar Martinez and Mike Mussina have all been elected to the National Baseball Hall of Fame by the Baseball Writers Association of America, per tonight’s announcement from Hall of Fame president Jeff Idelson. Notably, Rivera becomes the first player in history to be unanimously selected into baseball immortality, as his name was checked on each of this year’s 425 ballots. Both Martinez and Halladay were selected on 85.4 percent of this year’s ballots, while Mussina narrowly made his way into Cooperstown with a 76.7 percent rate of selection.
Rivera was a lock to go into Cooperstown, though most expected that he’d still fall shy of unanimous enshrinement. That won’t be the case, however, as Major League Baseball’s all-time leader in saves (652), games finished (952) and ERA+ (205) was too clear a Hall of Famer for any voter to ignore. In addition to those three staggering numbers, Rivera retired with an 82-60 record, a 2.21 ERA, and an 1173-to-286 K/BB ratio in 1283 2/3 innings of regular-season work. Rivera was named to a whopping 13 All-Star teams over the course of a career that spanned parts of 19 seasons.
Of course, much of Rivera’s legacy is tied to his postseason heroics; the game’s premier reliever ratcheted up his penchant for domination in October (and November), pitching to a ludicrous 0.70 ERA with 110 strikeouts against 21 walks in 141 postseason innings. Rivera appeared in 96 postseason contests and racked up a workload that was roughly equivalent to two full regular seasons, and he somehow managed to limit opponents to just 11 earned runs in that time. He won five World Series rings with the Yankees and was named both an ALCS MVP and a World Series MVP during his illustrious career. It’s rare that players can be described with absolutism in a game as subjective as baseball, but it’s virtually unequivocal that Rivera is the best relief pitcher the game has ever seen.
Halladay, tragically, was taken from this world far sooner than his family, friends, former teammates and legions of fans could’ve imagined. The former Blue Jays and Phillies ace, a two-time Cy Young winner and eight-time All-Star, was killed when his single-engine plane crashed into the Gulf of Mexico on Nov. 7, 2017. Halladay’s widow, Brandy, offered the following statement on behalf of her late husband:
Being inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame is every boy’s dream. To stand on that stage in Cooperstown and deliver your acceptance speech in front of baseball’s most enthusiastic fans is something that every baseball player aspires to achieve, and Roy was no exception. But that was not Roy’s goal. It was not his goal to have those three letters after his signature. His goal was to be successful every single day of his 16-year career. Tonight’s announcement is the end result of that effort. If only Roy were here to personally express his gratitude for this honor, what an even more amazing day this would be. I would like to extend special thanks to the baseball writers for the overwhelming percentage of votes that Roy received in his first year on the ballot. It means so much to me, Braden and Ryan.
It’d be difficult to argue that Halladay isn’t a deserving candidate. Beyond his Cy Youngs and All-Star nods, the right-hander pitched to a 203-105 record with a career 3.38 ERA, a 2117-to-592 K/BB ratio, 20 shutouts and 67 complete games. At a time when baseball was moving further and further away from allowing pitchers to throw a full nine innings, Halladay stood out as a throwback who led the league in complete-game efforts in seven of his 16 seasons — including five in a row from 2007-11. Baseball-Reference and Fangraphs both valued his brilliant career at 65 wins above replacement. And while Halladay doesn’t have the lengthy postseason track record of Rivera — he logged a 2.37 ERA in 38 playoff frames — I’d be remiss not to mention the masterful no-hitter he pitched against the Reds in his postseason debut back in 2010. Halladay issued just one walk in an otherwise perfect showing, putting on a masterful display and further establishing himself as a big-game pitcher on a national stage.
The 56-year-old Martinez will be a controversial addition for some onlookers, given that he spent the vast majority of his career as a designated hitter. There’s little denying, however, that the Mariners franchise icon is one of the best pure hitters Major League Baseball has ever seen. Martinez won two American League batting titles, thrice led the league in on-base percentage and hit better than .300 in 10 separate seasons.
In all, Martinez retired as a .312/.418/.515 hitter with 309 home runs, 514 doubles, 15 triples, 2247 hits, 1219 runs scored and 1261 runs batted in. While his counting stats fall shy of what some consider to be Hall of Fame benchmarks (e.g. 500 home runs, 3000 hits), Martinez was consistently elite on a rate basis right up until the final season of his career. The seven-time All-Star was 47 percent better than a league-average hitter in the estimation of park- and league-adjusted stats like OPS+ and wRC+ (147 in each). Beyond that, he was the pinnacle of consistency, tallying an OPS+ of 140 or better in all but three seasons from 1990-2003 (with those three seasons including an injury-shortened ’93 campaign, the strike-shortened ’94 campaign and a 2002 season in which he posted a 139 OPS+).
Like Martinez, the 50-year-old Mussina perhaps falls shy of some long-considered “standard” Hall of Fame benchmarks, but he was a consistently excellent pitcher during the game’s all-time offensive peak. “Moose” retired with a 270-153 record, a 3.68 ERA and a 2813-to-785 K/BB ratio in 3562 2/3 innings of regular-season ball. A five-time All-Star who won seven Gold Glove Awards and had six top-five Cy Young finishes, Mussina was a true workhorse for the Orioles and Yankees over an 18-year career that included a decade-long peak during which he posted a cumulative 129 ERA+. Mussina topped 200 innings in nine straight seasons from 1995-2003, and he padded his Hall of Fame resume with another 139 2/3 innings of 3.42 ERA ball in the postseason.
Some may be surprised to be reminded that Mussina never won a World Series, as he joined the Yankees for the first time in the season immediately following their 1998-2000 threepeat and retired a year before their ’09 return to the top of the mountain. Nevertheless, Mussina was a consistent rotation stalwart who thrived in the midst of the steroid era while spending the entirety of his career pitching in the game’s toughest division.
Ben 20
EDGAR!
spudchukar
Finally he gets what he deserves. One shouldn’t be denied because the DH was implemented.
Jimcarlo Slaton
I see it another way. He got the chance to become a star and make a lot of money because of the DH.
Ken M.
Real shame it took that long because writers believed he didn’t deserve to be in because he was a part time player.
Then the same writers vote unanimously to vote in another part time player. Edgar never lost the Ms 2 World Series because he didn’t do his job.
xabial
Rivera was the 1999 WS MVP and played a major role in winning 5x championships.
He is the All-time postseason leader:
ERA (0.70) Games pitched (96) Saves (42)
and WPA (11.7)
And that’s just scratching the surface. I could write a book on Mariano Rivera’s career. Mo is the undisputed best Closer of all time. Martinez is arguably the best DH of all time, and that’s excluding Big Papi for obvious reasons assuming you defer to Big Kurt
JamieMoyer 4
If you look at the stats and ignore the narrative (which one could credibly argue is dramatically affected by media east coast bias), Edgar is pretty clearly head and shoulders above Ortiz and every other past (or current) DH.
livingpaint
They both are the best of their craft. They both deserve to be in the HOF though they should have both been first balloters; not just Rivera. Always reminded of an article in the New York Daily News about the toughest hitter Rivera ever faced. His answer: “The toughest – and thank God he retired – Edgar Martinez. Oh my God. I think every pitcher will say that, because this man was tough. Great man, though – respected the game, did what he had to do for his team. That’s what you appreciate about players, when a player come and do what is right for the game of baseball, for his team and teammates.” Great talent and both one of my favorite players for each of their teams.
livingpaint
The DH Award is named after him. Nuff said 🙂
spudchukar
And unlike other DH’s he could have played third and eventually first had the DH not been implemented. Not that Griffey needed much help, but teams were forced to pitched to him due to Edgars’ protection.
The_M4N
I loved him as a player, he was a great hitter. Bonus, we are countrymen so I am really happy and excited that he finally got in. But there is a reason he didn’t play the field. He was a defensive liability.
Battman34
Edgar is not clearly above Ortiz in every way. First off, Edgar had less power and the power and home run totals he had were inflated by the Kingdom. He benefitted greatly from that ballpark as well as Griffey. Ortiz meanwhile as a lefthanded hitter had one of the toughest rightfields to hit home runs at.
With that being said, I agree that Edgar has been slighted for too long, but I also don’t agree with you putting down another great DH because of it. Both arguably were the most feared hitters when the game was on the line in the game at their respective times. Ortiz though had much more of an impact in the playoffs than Edgar.
But again to say Edgar was clearly head and shoulders above when one has 541 career home runs and the other has 309, and one of them won 3 world championships for which he was primarily responsible for 2 of them while the other has none. Stop cherry picking. Both are hall of famers.
The_M4N
Edgar was a far better hitter. The only thing Papi did better with the bat was hitting it over the fence. About the Kingdome/Fenway argument OPS+ adjusts for park. Edgar is higher… About the fear argument… is there a fear-o-metor?
Papi belongs in the Hall. What’s your take on Bonds and A-Rod?
robbsaul 2
He wasn’t a defensive liability before his hamstring injury.
xabial
More men have walked on the moon than scored an earned run against Rivera in the postseason.
It was no fluke. Mariano had over 140 innings pitched in the playoffs.
To put things into perspective…
Ken Giles gave up 10 earned runs 2017 playoffs.
Mariano gave up 11 earned runs his career.
luclusciano
Pretty sure they are talking about Martinez, but all your stats are true, and no one would argue that.
bencole
I don’t think anyone’s disputing Rivera deserves it, he’s saying Martinez should have been in, but was held out for bring a part-time player, which Rivera was as well as a closer.
The_M4N
Why can’t you just be happy that he is in? JS.
Benjamin560
I would say that Griffey should’ve been the first unanimous, but unanimous nonetheless. But that distinction should belong to Cobb.
davidcoonce74
No, it should have belonged to Ruth, and then after that Aaron or Mays or Rickey or Gwynn….Cobb was not well-liked and it was surprising he came as close as he did to unanimous election.
Benjamin560
I’d put DiMaggio before everyone of those guys…lol!
its_happening
Ted Williams.
mikeyank55
How about Tom Seaver. I included him in this string so Mets fans can participate since there are no other players for them to fascinate about.
retire21
Neither Rickey nor Gwynn were on Aaron/Mays level.
davidcoonce74
When Rickey retired he was the all-time leader in stolen bases, runs scored and walks drawn. Nobody else had ever done anything close to that – the career leader in three major offensive categories. Gwynn was obviously an amazing hitter and beloved. But yes, neither of those guys were Aaron or Mays, but all four should have been unanimous selections before Mariano.
xXabial
great career yes however was only elected to secure big papi
xabial
My favorite is Edgar doesnt come with questions, speculation about leaked positive test like big papi
Edgar had 65.5 WAR Fangraphs, 68.4 WAR bbref
Papi had 50.7 WAR in Fangraphs, 55.3 WAR bbref
Matthew De Lorge
Awesome for Moose!
Core4
Soooooo happy for moose! Super cool having Mo and Moose going in together also. As a Yankee fan since 1990, I appreciate how lucky I am, with all the winning and great players I’ve got to see along the way .Mo and Moose being 2of them. Congrats fellas!
mikeyank55
BEST MOMENTS:
How about 2003 ALCS Game 7? The Yankees are in the verge of being blown out.
Moose comes out of the BP to throw three scoreless innings. Mo followed to throw three scoreless innings.
Let the celebration begin for two professionals who are gentlemen to admire!
dimitrios in la
Here’s to hoping Mussina goes in an Oriole.
Jimcarlo Slaton
Would be a shame if he doesn’t since he established himself while with Baltimore, but I think he will.
Benjamin560
Randy Johnson in Arizona says hi Seattle!
Jimcarlo Slaton
Randy Johnson had his best years with Arizona, and became an iconic player while there. He was also huge during their World Series run.
InvalidUserID
He said on MLBtv channel that he won’t pick one since, in his words, he wouldn’t have had the career without both teams and he was proud to play for both organizations.
bballaddict
That’s what Catfish Hunter did. I think it shows respect for both franchises.
itsmeheyhi
he doesnt have a choice
Jimcarlo Slaton
“According to Idelson, the cap decision is made by the Hall of Fame’s senior staff and research team”
“Baseball Hall of Fame President Jeff Idelson told ESPN in an 2009 interview that the hall tries to decide where the player made his most indelible mark”
“When Gary Carter was elected in 2003, the Hall decided his plaque would bear the Montreal Expos logo, while Carter expressed a desire to go in as a member of the New York Mets”
Not going in as a Yankee.. He became a star with Baltimore and was just decent with the Yankees.
drum18
I was wondering which hat will be on Mussina’s plaque.
xabial
They say can go w/ no logo on hat? In plaque
Read or heard somewhere… not requirement? — Not likely, but crazy, it’s even a discussion.
korn_cakes33
Wow Mo Rivera got 100%. We finally get 100% and it was a closer
AllRiseForTheJudge
Why are you acting all surprised? He was the only one on the ballot who deserved it and it would have been a travesty if he didn’t get it.
None of the voters wanted to be that guy.
dellapple
Overrated! , Rivera deserves the HOF, but Righetti was better. He could pitch more then an inning and was just as effective.
jbaker3170
Different times. Get over it
KCelts
Huh?
evilempire28
96 was arguably Rivera’s best year and he pitched 2 innings almost every outing.
Oxford Karma
I could probably name 100 relievers off the top of my head that I would rather have than Righetti. 3 are on the Yankees right now!
ThatBallwasBryzzoed
Lee Smith did that 20 years before Rivera.. and it took him about the same just to get in.
The_M4N
You smoking tihs again?
costergaard2
Righetti. You’re funny. That’s why the Yankees let him go after 1990. Four or five seasons of relief ! Yay !
Go re-watch the Aaron Boone game. Rivera pitched multiple innings and hung in there until Boone walked the Red Sox away…
steelerbravenation
You sound stupid
Righetti was nowheee near Mo’s level & I am not even a Yankee fan. From North Jersey and grew up watching Rags
YourDaddy
Only Kimbrel has ever been at Mo’s level. Everybody else is a distant third.
dray16
I disagree, Mo is his own level, no one compares.
Prospectnvstr
Different time, indeed. There’s NO WAY you can definitely say that M. Rivera is “definitely” the best reliever/closer of all-time. Best of his era, arguably yes. Rivera didn’t pitch in the ’70’s &/or the ’80’s like most of the other great relief pitchers “of all-time “.
spudchukar
I assume this was a troll, if not you are uninformed.
posterizer
I watched both for their whole careers. Rags couldn’t carry Rivera’s jockstrap! Learn some baseball
luclusciano
Have you seen his stats? Don’t let the voters influence you, actually look up those numbers. There has never been a reliever like Rivera.
bballaddict
That you my friend? Glockenya
axisofhonor25
Rivera is undisputed best reliever. Yes different time, but I believe it was a time where it was a hitters era given the late 90’s steroid era. It’s not the same now, to be as dominant as he was at that time is more impressive than what closers can do modern day.
mikeyank55
Hey Dell—rags career doesn’t compare. Zero post season contributions. You are sour.
nymetsking
You could’ve said that about a good half dozen players that didn’t get in unanimously that deserved it and were left off several ballots. He’s deserving, no question, but it is a bit of a surprise that someone didn’t leave him off, at the very least to try to get a more ‘fringe’ guy the votes needed to keep them on the ballot count forward.
petfoodfella
If Junior wasn’t 100%, Rivera shouldn’t be either.
adamontheshore
If the Babe didn’t get 100%, Junior shouldn’t have. We can do this all day, but Mo deserved it.
ThatBallwasBryzzoed
The two writers that didn’t vote for junior were voted off the voting committee. They both got 100% to have there voting rights taken away.
Randia
WRONG, GRIFFEY DIDNT GET 3 VOTES AND YOUR STORY IS WRONG
RangerRick123
You guys are arguing like children… there’s a TON of players that deserve 100%… sometimes the baseball writers don’t use their vote for a player they know is a first ballot HOF… they instead use their ballot for someone who is a fringe candidate. You know someone who has been on the ballot for awhile and needs to get over the hump… arguing whether Griffey deserved or Babe Ruth… or whatever… is so trivial… these guys are all FIRST BALLOT HOF… period!
ThatBallwasBryzzoed
98.2% going off what Ken Rosenthal said. Hes the only reliable source I trust.
mikeyank55
Only a mets fan would say that he should be left off. A lower spot maybe but leaving him off?
In reality there should be a rule to hold writers accountable. If a player garners an incredibly high % of ballots, then the dissenters should be removed from voting for 2 years. HOF is about principle, not personality Mr. Met.
jdgoat
I think everybody is surprised since there was a handful of other guys who haven’t been unanimous that obviously should’ve. I don’t think it’s that big of a deal, but I thought there would’ve been some petty voter who went by that too. And to have it be a reliever, not a Trout type player, is even more surprising.
ThatBallwasBryzzoed
Just to name a few
Home Run King Hank Aaron
Nolan Ryan
Sandy Koufax
Cy Youg (the guy had 511 wins. No one will ever touch that let alone 400 wins and he had like 749 complete games. And he wasnt even a 1st ballot HOFer. He only got 76.12% who the hell didn’t vote him in.
canocorn
“who the hell didn’t vote him in?”
The former Mrs. Young.
thefenwayfaithful 2
Even for a Yankees fan, this is a longshot. There are so many guys more deserving of a 100% vote that this one just further proves the incompetence of the BBWA in this process.
Mo will for a long time go down as the greatest closer of all time. There’s no one even close to his level of dominance. On this ballot, sure he’s the easiest pick. But on most ballots, he’d be 3rd or 4th. Ken Griffey, Jr. Nolan Ryan, Cal Ripken Jr. just to name 3 are way more deserving. Greg Maddux, Tom Seaver, Mickey Mantle, Ted Williams… I could name 30-40 names with no problem more deserving of a 100% vote.
That being said, congratulations to all of the new Hall of Famers. All are very deserving. A little shocked Moose made it and Schilling still came up short, but Schilling doesn’t do himself any favors in earning sympathy votes.
Randia
MARIANO got it because he was a class act, the man never disrespected another player and he was a christian Pastor who helped orphan children in his native panama
he got 100 percent because he was universally loved by his peers. only a red Sox writer or fan could say this……
fortunately its only a few because most of the real classy red sox fans agree he deserved the honor
bosoxforlife
Bosoxforlife agrees 100% that Mariano Rivera deserves to be a unanimous first round recipient of the the honor of election into the Hall of Fame.
mikeyank55
With a name like like Fenway faithful your first comment is doubtful.
Different eras combined with ABSOLUTE Post Season DOMINANCE.
thefenwayfaithful 2
You’re misunderstanding me and for that I apologize. Mo 150% deserves a unanimous vote. Class act. Almost quit baseball to become a pastor. He’s every manager/fan/owner/teammates dream. My point was that there are a lot more guys deserving of a 100% vote who had a larger impact on the game given their role in it. I can’t put Mo over Ryan, Williams, etc. and say wow of all the Hall of famer this is the guy.
Absolutely 100% not a shot at Mariano. Love the guy and he at least for a long time will go down as the greatest closer ever. 100% vote is a no brainier here. There were just a lot of missed 100% ballots to have the first one be on any closer. This a shot at the BBWA and a well deserved one.
Even Mantle for example…
thefenwayfaithful 2
So do I sir! When I say more deserving, I don’t mean Mariano should not have been. I just mean how were 30-40 other easy unanimous picks missed and then the first is a commissioner and the second is a closer? It makes a mockery of the hall of fame. I’m glad they finally got one right giving Mariano the unanimous vote. At the same time I see red when I look at the reasons Griffey and Maddux didn’t get a 100% vote (some writers won’t vote for anyone who played in the steroid era for example) and then see those same writers turn around and vote in favor of Rivera? It’s completely hypocritical and makes no sense to me.
They all should be 100% votes. Maybe this is a sign we will see a few more in coming years and that some that didn’t take their responsibility seriously, now do.
rhymeoftheancientmariner
Your middle of the order linebacker corps won’t get in
johnrealtime
People are surprised because of anyone to ever play baseball, he was the first unanimous. He was the best closer of all time, but there have been some pretty damn great hitters and pitchers in the past who are better and didn’t get in unanimously. Yes Rivera deserved it, but he wasn’t who I thought would be first (though honestly I expected that no one ever would)
Randia
AND THATS TOTALLY FINE, I just see it as a matter of how much respect he earned by being the kind of person he was, to my knowledge no player ever said a bad word about the man his extensive charity work and feeding the homeless made him hard to just ignore. but many could have and possibly should have also been unanimous.
to me its a fitting tribute
Joeyjoejoe
Which is awful. A closer. 3 of those idiots didn’t vote for Griffey?
luclusciano
Those three did not vote this time around?
ThatBallwasBryzzoed
It’s a shame the first non player was bud selig..
Mo Rivera deserves it. Derek Jeter better get 100% as well. Not sure why he wasnt on the ballot this year. It’s been 5 years since he retired.
RedRooster
Been 4 since Derek retired
ThatBallwasBryzzoed
He retired in 2014. Unless it counts the first full year he didnt play.
puddles
He retired after the 2014 season. There have only been 4 seasons since he retired.
phantomofdb
Jeter played the 2014 season. So he has to wait through the 2019 season
Oxford Karma
4
nymetsking
There’s been scores of non-players in. Selig is nowhere near the first.
ThatBallwasBryzzoed
He was the first to get 100% he shouldnt have been considered at all. That was my point.
jdgoat
Seriously? I can’t see Jeter getting 100%.
ThatBallwasBryzzoed
Why not. Who the hell wouldn’t vote for one if the greatest players of all time. The way he ended his career could only be in Jeter fashion. Inside out swing. Walk off single yabkee stadium. It would have been better to be vs the red Sox and even more so awesome had it been a walk off win to win the world series.
ABStract
Why are ex Yankees the only players eligible for 100%?
I know the rest of the league is just there because NY/BOS are nice enough to let other teams participate, but you’d think at least one non yankee would be in the discussion
Tone down the bias, please
And Jeter at 100%? Come on! Go away already DJ
KnicksFanCavsFan
no one is saying others didn’t deserve it. Ripken, Thomas, Griffey, Maddux, etc all deserved. Mo and Jeter are just mentioned because they are the most obvious to deserve in this and never year’s class. don’t read more into it than that.
luclusciano
How many players have had going away tours where every team did something for them nearly all year? It’s not a bias, it is a truth.
mikeyank55
Oh ABS-your crunches have cut your brain off from blood circulation.
Deve
Mike Mussina?
Ill take it!
thefenwayfaithful 2
Moose earned his way in. I love seeing a gritty guy like Mussina getting love. He lacks some of the core stats they look for but this guy was amazing in his prime. But his compete level was off the charts. Grit and determination made him a hall of famer rather then raw talent. I was pulling for both Moose and Schilling to get the vote this year. I’ll take 50%!
Newspeaks
100 % amazing. Well deseved. Along with Moose.
grapher0315
Totally shocked that we now have a unanimous selection after all these years.
Oxford Karma
I thought it would go until Trout, if Jeter didn’t do it.
WalkerBuehlerFan
No Bonds! Yes!
cysoxsale
+1
tomsack
bonds and Clemens under 60% nice
Balk
Soon enough the best baseball player that ever lived(Bonds) will be in the Hall! No doubt about that!
tomsack
hope it never happens home run record is a joke
cysoxsale
Thank you.
brewcrewer
are you sure though? im starting to think bonds is going to get screwed over for the rest of time. Mike mussina? seriously?
cysoxsale
Cheating=disgraceful
retire21
Best player of all-time?
Ruth has been in since 1936.
ABStract
Ruth never played MLB games against anyone but white players…how in h€ll could he be considered the best of all time? Where’s that asterisk!?!
(Shout out to Daniel Tosh)
bballaddict
Greatest of All Time will always be subjective. The Player who most dominated his own era between the foul lines is Ruth beyond any shadow of a doubt. He forever changed the sport by his on the field performance.
Of course Jackie Robinson’s impact was vasty more important but that’s not the same thing as dominating the game between the lines.
jekporkins
It’s a stupid argument. You could also say black players never had to face Ruth. You could say Reggie Jackson never had to face bullpens like today. You could say Cy Young shouldn’t have all those wins because they had smaller rotations.
Stats are stats are stats are stats.
retire21
Exactly.
Not every black pitcher was/is Satchel Paige.
John Egan
only to visit with his asterisked ball…
Strike Four
What if you only took his Pirates career?
The worst part about anti-Bonds people are they don’t blame Selig who basically forced players to juice to get fans back at the games. Selig is in the HOF and Bonds isn’t, THAT is why the HOF is trash.
KnicksFanCavsFan
how did he FORCE anyone to juice. Holy-enabler batman
BravesCanada
How did he force Bonds to juice? You’re saying Bonds wouldn’t have had a roster spot if he didn’t take HGH? Come on. The guy had an ego and wanted to be better than the McGwire and Sosa show. Selig looked the other way, but Bonds did it to himself.
Tenn Braves
If Bonds is your “best that ever lived”, you didn’t live to see Rose.
Strike Four
Rose was utter trash compared to Bonds, youre trolling.
Both belong in the HOF though. That goes without saying.
Priggs89
Pete Rose better than Bonds? God, I hope you’re joking.
Jimcarlo Slaton
I wonder how many years Rose was even the best player on his own team..
Bench, Morgan and Schmidt were all better players in their prime.
Youtube.com/@PINGTR1P
If that day comes, the Hall of Fame will be meaningless.
sameichel
Pete Rose is the greatest baseball player ever whether you like it or not
sameichel
I still don’t get why he isn’t in the hall yet, for the million time it is not like he better on the reds or the teams he played against to lose
sameichel
Betted
itsmeheyhi
actually its just bet
sameichel
Betting on your own team to win is like not betting at all
KnicksFanCavsFan
you dont know that. for years he lied and said he didn’t bet on baseball at all. point is, his action allows for speculation.
BravesCanada
You got proof of that? Or just the words of a proven liar
Cat Mando
sameichel…you won’t find Rose’s name on any 10 greatest list (outside of Cincy) and on many larger lists he isn’t even top 15. Rose’s was nowhere near the greatest player ever.
Cat Mando
sameichel…read the flipping rule and tell me where it says it’s OK to bet on your own team. It’s the ONLY rule required to be posted in every single club house and has been since the 1920’s. Hi knew the rule and was so arrogant he ignored it and purposefully broke it.
Rule 21 (d) “Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible.”
moethacker
Good point, Cat, but there are more than 10 players in the HOF, so being amongst the ten greatest of all time does not seem to be a criterion. Good thing, too. The majority of current HOF-er would include aa large number of players who would not be on anybody’s all time 10 greatest lists, even if those lists were highly specialized. Think, for example, how many pitchers in the HOF would not be there if they had to be among the ten greatest pitchers of all time. Is Mike Mussina one of the ten best starting pitchers of all time? Or this example – there are 22 shortstops in the HOF – do the other 12 not belong?
Surely having more hits than anyone who ever played the game counts for something. The “character issue” has never been an automatic disqualifier see Cobb, Ty) – unless voters are straining for a reason to keep someone out, as they very often do. When they can’t do it because of some spin on stats, they invoke the character issue. I get it, but as much of an a-hole as he was, Rose was a great hitter and has every qualification to be in the HOF – other than his behavior.
Having said all of that, as far as I’m concerned, Pete’s already in whether he has a plaque based on the opinion of the voters or MLB has let it known that he belongs in the class of Joe Jackson as one of those whom we pretend did not exist. The bat from hit # 4000 is there – probably other memorabilia and videotape as well. Fans who don’t know the story can find out why he doesn’t have a plaque. I’m fine with that.
Polish Hammer
Pete Rose is not in the HoF because he willing signed a lifetime ban. He signed it because he knew they had the goods on him. He lied for years “buy the book”….then he needed more money and opened up some more buy the book”….the guy played hard and hit the ball but is a lying sack of shiznit and despicable being. Soon he’ll bring yet another book out to make some more $ and will admit to even more…”buy the book”…right after you pay $250 for the specially inscribed autographed ball that says “I didn’t bet on baseball”….SMH
Polish Hammer
Besides, there are things from Pete in the HoF, he’s just not an inducted member.
Polish Hammer
And Pete just wants in the Hall so he can make more money on his autograph and memorabilia sales…
luclusciano
The speculation is that be did bet against his own team, which means he could have thrown games. I think He should be in the Hall, but that is the reasoning behind it.
Cat Mando
moethacker…I wasn’t addressing Rose’s HoF status, simply that he is not the greatest that ever player, nor was he in the top 10.
As a side note, yep…”character issue” has never been an “automatic disqualifier” but now with the knowledge he was somewhat a pedo too do you think the vet committee would vote him in if he was reinstated? Having sex with a 14 year old and using “i thought she was 16” as an excuse, simply because that was the age of consent in OH is a bit lame.
moethacker
Agree, Cat. Rose is not greatest of all time, or even in the discussion despite the number of hits. Rose’s excuse for the pedo incident is more than a bit lame – it’s no excuse at all. As someone else noted, he agreed to a lifetime ban …. so he never gets a plaque and his accomplishments are duly noted in the HOF museum. No plaque, accomplishments noted. Anyone in the future who wonders why no plaque – the evidence will be there. FWIW I fell pretty much the same way about Bonds, Clemens, etc.
Cat Mando
Agreed on all points. BTW there is something else to represent Rose in the hall…the Dowd Report and all 22 volumes of the evidence he collected during the investigation.
Zachg547
The best baseball player that did PED’s
gomerhodge71
Probably. The same braniacs who got Harold Baines in will be lame enough to allow cheaters in. And Schilling continues to get shut out due to politics.
davidcoonce74
More than afew whispers about Schilling and steroids, the bloody sock was fake, and he ran acrooked company and stole money from taxpayers. There is a character clause, and he doesn’t sniff it.
bigeasye
The fact that Bonds isn’t in the Hall makes this all meaningless. Steroids or no, he’s a top 5 player ever. He was a hall player before he may or may not have used drugs. As good as Edgar Martinez was, there isn’t a single team or coach that wouldn’t have taken him over Bonds. Not one.
ABStract
Damn right bigeasye!
higherandtighter
2022.
10th year for Bonds & Clemens. 1st year for A-Rod.
All the back log will be clear. (Only Hall of Famer beginning eligibility is A-Rod on ‘21 and ‘22)
Bonds, Clemens and A-Rod go in together, Class of ‘22.
Kind of like a segregated user ballot year.
Polish Hammer
But the point is he just like ARod and others took a HoF career and flushed it down the toilet by using PEDs and tainting everything they ever did.
sportznut1000
clemens/bonds and arod/braun are different though because the first pair was never suspended. stealing that line of thinking from hall of fame voter bob nightingale. i have a ton of other reasons why they should get in but dont put them in the same category
Randia
like rose he flushed his candidacy down the toilet. was he a HOF before he did Steroids? yes to me he was
but his lack of respect for the game was his choice and to me unless he admits his mistake he doesnt deserve the honor
Polish Hammer
Wait, Rose did steroids too?
davidcoonce74
No, Rose, like many players in the 70s, took “greenies” (amphetamines), but as a manager he bet on his own team, admitted to it, and willingly accepted a lifetime ban from baseball because of it. Putting Rose in the Hall of Fame would be much more of a travesty than just putting a random steroid user in.
Randia
if bonds and clemens and rose admit the truth, and i mean the whole truth Id vote them in tomorrow, but until they do they are disqualifying themselves and I hope they never get in.
in my mind the only ones keeping them out is themselves, making a mistake is fine. even if they used peds, because Aaron and Mays used greenies, Mantle too. but to me as long as they keep lying they are disrespecting the game and the fans AND THEIR OWN GREATNESS.
so until they are honest they dont deserve it
davidcoonce74
Rose admitted the truth in a signed agreement that baseball and Rose’s lawyers drew up, the one that banned him for life from baseball.
nmc420theambassador
got a DH in the HOF., time to get the DH in the NL
#DHintheNL2020
baseballpun
Yeah but he only gets half a plaque.
bhambrave
Does Mariano get 1/9th of a plaque?
hiflew
Does Mussina also just get half a plaque since he was exclusively an AL pitcher?
Polish Hammer
Half a plaque for facing a slugging DH every night instead of 3 easy Ks from a fellow pitcher? SMH…
hiflew
Congratulations on not understanding sarcasm and completely missing an obvious point. My point that if a DH that only plays one side should get half a plaque, then shouldn’t the AL pitcher that only plays one side get the other half.
Polish Hammer
Dumb sarcasm because the comments regarding a half plaque for a DH was because he doesn’t play the field and only bats, not because he only plays half the MLB teams.
luclusciano
At least 1/5 of a plaque. 🙂
hiflew
Just because you don’t understand it doesn’t make it “dumb.” It has nothing to do with only playing half the teams. It has to do with the AL having the DH and the NL not. The DH doesn’t play the field and only bats and the AL pitcher only plays the field and doesn’t bat. Stop me if I am going too fast for you. I can try to make it simpler. Perhaps with flash cards.
Joeyjoejoe
No thanks!
hiflew
Why stop at the DH? Let’s just go full football and have separate offensive and defensive teams. Why shouldn’t a slick fielding middle infielder, a speedy center fielder or a catcher that can’t hit his weight get the same reprieve as a pitcher?
John Egan
the players’ union will love that!
DarkSide830
oh come on, pitchers hitting makes the game more fun, wont cause great hitters like Edgar to be handicapped in hall voting, and wont improve orders that much (unless you have 9 pretty good everyday hitters on your team, despite that many dont even have 8)
steelerbravenation
I would much rather see my favorite players be able to play a couple more years because they can still swing a bat. You don’t think Chipper coulda hung around say 2 more years if the DH was in the NL ?
Time to put the DH in the NL
MB923
I can’t believe Mo got 100%. I’m so glad Mussina got in too
For those who likely will say Mo shouldn’t have. Does it really make a difference? You are either a HOFer or you aren’t. Past voting should have zero effect on current/future voting.
I’m glad 420 voters felt differently than voters from 40+ years ago. Hopefully this is a trend in the right direction. Wonder if Jeter does it next year.
c ya
MB,
I really can’t see Jeter not getting that 100%
This was some list.
Old User Name
I wonder if Moose goes in as a Yankee or an Oriole?
clrrogers 2
Definitely an Oriole IMO.
MafiaBass
A Devil Ray
luclusciano
He said neither out of respect for both.
c ya
Mr. Sandman,
Well Deserved, you are the greatest.
Stoned Prophet
“Muh steroids. Muh character clause. Muh sabermetrics.”
DarkSide830
“character clause” is just a lame excuse for the writers to not elect a guy who they dont like
realgone2
A closer is the first unanimous selection? HOF voting is a joke
AllRiseForTheJudge
You’re a joke. He’s the greatest relief pitcher in history and completely deserved it. Don’t waste your time trying to tell me otherwise.
realgone2
Yankee homer.
kodion
Nothing to do with it. Head and shoulders, the best. Anybody else that good has “questions” attached
Strike Four
He was a part time player, not good enough to start. Relievers are the DH’s of pitchers. He deserved to get in, sure, but so did Edgar and Papi will too.
Kevin Brown, Bobby Grich and Dick Allen need to get in over chumps like Harold Baines though.
⚾The Heater from Van Meter⚾
I’d add Dale Murphy to that list over Baines.
PopeMarley
Bonds and Clemens better get in before Big Papi!!!
The_M4N
Yankee hater.
The_M4N
Crazy logic.
DarkSide830
hey, congrats on winning worst comment of the day today!
hiflew
You may not like Harold Baines getting in, but I think “chump” is taking it way too far. Baines spent 20 years of his life entertaining people like you and accumulated nearly 3,000 hits along the way. Even if you don’t like him, at least respect him.
Randia
big papi deserves to get in easily and I have no problem if jeter isnt unanimous. he was a flawd fielder after all. he deserves to be elected yes, but I dont think it will be unanimous.
but Mariano yes he earned it by his character, by helping the homeless by being a man of faith and unswerving character who even his opponents admired even in 1987 when he lost in the playoffs or 2001 when he lost in the world series. he was gracious in defeat. giving credit to the other team and making no excuses
to this day he gives all credit to god and his teammates, never to himself. so yes he deserves 100% because he never took any credit
SocraticGadfly
Not by WAR, Ortiz doesn’t deserve in. A 1B/DH type below 60 career WAR.
rhymeoftheancientmariner
Sour fan coming to the realization that the Sox own you now. Call Johnny Damon your daddy.
MafiaBass
Yes, it is. Because there’s plenty of people before Mo that should have been unanimous.
sufferforsnakes
……and still no Vizquel. HOF has become a worthless sideshow.
melfman1
Vizquel is borderline. Wasn’t as worthy as this year’s class.
indiansfan44
Exactly. I go back and forth on him and loved every minute he played but I couldn’t of put him on my ballet this year if I had a vote.
bjsguess
He’s not even borderline.
sufferforsnakes
Which shows that you know nothing about the complexities of baseball.
Strike Four
Bonds and Clemens and Rose aren’t in but a second-rate Ozzie Smith is what’s making you mad?
DarkSide830
second-rate? are you out of your mind? they are almost exactly the same player.
ABStract
You obviously didn’t watch a lot of games Vizquel played or you wouldn’t be saying that. His consistently spectacular defense at the most important defensive position was the best I’ve ever seen in 3 decades of watching MLB
Much respect Omar!
John Egan
the players’ union will love that!
Polish Hammer
Ozzie Smith made plus that you saw once a week as hiking has on TWIB. Today every SS is making those plays and you see them nightly on ESPN. Vizquel was an amazing glove man and belongs in the HoF.
SocraticGadfly
Ozzie has 15, as in >>FIFTEEN<<, more dWAR than Vizquel. Ozzie is as far ahead of Omar as Omar is ahead of the third-best fielding shortstop.
I'm sorry, I meant Vizquel vs. the FOURTH best, as Vizquel is No. 3. Marc Belanger is 10 dWAR ahead of Vizquel.
Polish Hammer
Can you please translate that to a sentence in English?
higherandtighter
Viquel has years. 2023.
xabial
It’s finally over.
Mariano Rivera got 100% of every single vote.
First player ever. Finally, it’s over.
realgone2
I wish you were over
nymetsking
lol
The_M4N
You mad bro?
No Soup For Yu!
What did this dude do to get so much hate? Out of the loop here and I’m just curious. Given the upvote totals on each comment it’s clear he’s not well liked for some reason and I’m wondering why that is.
trace
Let’s put you into the MLBTR HoF some day.
brewcrewer
he has to go away for five years first
brewcrewer
nothing against you x, it was a joke, a really good joke. don’t take it personally
Michael Chaney
Good for all of them.
driftcat28 2
So happy Moose got in! It was well deserved, even if it means he’s wearing a Baltimore cap in the hall lol
rs04071318
All 4 seem like good picks to me. Congrats to Mario, but I’m surprised a reliever was the first unanimous selection.
rs04071318
Mariano
padam
Willie Mays didn’t get 100%, but Rivera did. Nothing against Rivera, no one better than him at RP, but so many others deserved 100% of the vote as well.
And Mussina voted in? He was a model of consistency, but HOF creds? Short of 300 W’s, 3k K’s… Same could be said for RH as well.
AllRiseForTheJudge
Stop crying about what didn’t happen decades ago. Willie Mays retired 47 years ago, are you really going to try to argue that because someone wasn’t unanimous 5 decades ago nobody else should ever be?
Dry up.
nymetsking
Griffey got on just three years ago. Recent enough?
kodion
How could Griffey be unanimous …when Mays wasn’t?
😉
jdgoat
This guy probably cried about Ohtani over Andujar
its_happening
^That’s a little immature, JD….
moethacker
Don’t care about Rivera being the first to get 100%. In my view he deserved it. the fact that equally deserving players did not get 100% in eons past is irrelevant. No need to penalize Rivera for the idiotic voting patterns of the past.
As for Moose, at first blush I wondered. Then I looked at his numbers, bearing in mind that the guy: (a) pitched in two bandbox home ballparks that have been death to the careers of many a RHP through the years; (b) pitched in the roid era; (c) pitched his career in the AL East, with bandbox home ballparks in addition to the home ballparks; and (d) had a career 83 WAR to HOF-er John Smoltz’s 69.1 and other comparable numbers, other than K’s and Smoltz’s closer years.
Bringbacktheblue
MLB and baseball fans must be irate that Hoffy got in before Rivera.
AllRiseForTheJudge
Hoffman retired before Rivera. Duh.
nymetsking
Babe Ruth got in before Aaron. We should protest the Hall!
DarkSide830
i’d be much more mad that Hoffman wasn’t a first-ballot HOFer, Wagner gets very few votes, yet Mo was unanimous. not that Mo didnt deserve it, but you cant tell me he’s the only unequivocal HOFer among closers.
Randia
i can, he was easily better than Hoffman, rivera had more saves better era, better era + better Whip, more k’s fewer walks better overall winning percentage by far, better post season record.
and head to head in the world Series rivera was clearly better
0-1 9.00 era for hoffmann 0-0 o.00 era for mariano
so hoffman while great was no Mariano
hoffmann was pretty bad in the post season, 1-2 vs 8-1
steelerbravenation
He retired sooner he actually is probably the reason Mo got 100%. The probably said if that bum is in the HOF there is no way Mo doesn’t get in
AllRiseForTheJudge
Mariano absolutely deserved to be the first unanimous inductee, anyone who says otherwise either never watched him pitch or is a Red Sox fan. I was at his final game and I’ll never forget that moment, watching Pettitte and Jeter come to get him.
Moose getting in is also well-deserved. MLB’s socials are using photos of him in pinstripes, which makes me wonder if the league is expecting him to go in as a Yankee.
realgone2
What are you 11?
AllRiseForTheJudge
@realgone2 no, I’m 32, but obviously you’re a child if that’s the only response you’re capable of formulating. Go troll someone else, I have a business to run.
Guest617
pedophile much?
HubcapDiamondStarHalo
It’s hard for me to agree that Rivera should have been the FIRST unanimous selection (I wonder every single year who the hell didn’t vote for Ruth or Mays or Aaron or Griffey Jr or Cobb or…), but I’m delighted that this year’s voters finally broke that old bugaboo. That said, as a Red Sox fan, Rivera completely deserved unanimous selection. He earned it… and I’m exceptionally glad that the Sox NEVER have to bat against him ever again.
moethacker
Unless there was some kind of oath of office HOF voters have to sign saying there would never, ever be a 100%-er, it was inevitable that someone would eventually get the “honor,” such s it is.
Actually, the entire first HOF class should have been inducted unanimously, but the then-voters’ pomposity and homerism created a conundrum for every HOF class since. It led to the annual occasion for voters to ask themselves the inane question “If Ruth (or Cobb, or Mathewson, or Wagner, or Collins) were not unanimous selections, how can we be unanimous for {fill-in-the-blank] without whizzing on the first five?”
So, somebody had to be first and a decent case can be made for Rivera to be that guy even though the same case was not by voters in previous years and decades, Rivera could just as easily fallen into the category of the snubbed, but he is now the recipient of a very nice footnote to his obviously HOF-worthy career. More deserving than Ted Williams, or Aaron, or Mays, or probably a score more if I wanted to take the time to list them? NO, but is he a terrible choice to be the first? Also NO.
So we got to the bottom of that piece of HOF voting buffoonery. Now can we please go after the illogic that says a guy is worthy of the Hall the second (or third or fourth, etc.) time but not in his first year. Do careers in any sense of the word get better as the time from the end of their careers lengthens? Seems to me if a guy is a HOF-er, he was one from the date of eligibility or not at all. To my knowledge there is no annual cap on the number that can be elected – so the increasing percentages over the years are, to me, indefensible.
davidcoonce74
No, the reason why the first class of HoF players wasn’t unanimous is really obvious – the ballot was huge, because it included basically every player who had ever played baseball up to that point, from the 1870s on. In that sort of scenario, obviously, it would have been quite impossible for anyone to have been elected unanimously; there were just too many names.
Randia
and you are a class red sox fan, no one was saying others didnt deserve it. of course others did, but some people had axes to grind, Ted williams had a great HOF career but some voters hated him which was wrong dead wrong. but as you obviously understand everybody loved and respected Mariano, teammates and opponents alike. you deserve credit as a red Sox fan for recognizing that. so I salute you
just because others made mistakes is no reason to penalize someone as humane and kind as Mariano
davidcoonce74
Ted Williams was also famously nasty to the media and fans, and he really didn’t care much for baseball. As soon as the season was over he went to his actual love – hunting and fishing – and didn’t participate in fan events or barnstorming tours or other offseason baseball pursuits ever. Baseball for him was a job that he was very good at (well, the hitting part), but he didn’t care for the game very much. Later in life he came around a bit, but during his playing days Ted Williams was a notoriously reclusive and surly character who didn’t feel he owed baseball anything.
its_happening
^You really believe this??? If you are right, and once again you aren’t, Ted Williams would have never managed, never talked hitting, never wrote books or provided hitting tips beyond the end of his career. The man lived and breathed hitting. He clearly showed how much he cared for the game and what it meant to him. He came back to play the game TWICE after tours of duty (WWII and Korea). He cared enough to keep going after two wars. Two wars can also do a number on a person’s character.
davidcoonce74
Ted cared about the game because it was his job and he was great at it. He didn’t care for baseball in general at all. He managed because he was given an insane amount of money (at the time) to manage, and quit after two seasons although he was good in the second season. He liked hitting, very much. He disliked most of the rest of baseball, especially the way the Red Sox lowballed him every year in his contracts. And as soon as the seasons ended he was out until spring training. He did nothing baseball-related in any off-season ever.
davidcoonce74
There are dozens of Ted Williams biographies that show very clearly that baseball was just his job. The minute the season ended he didn’t care about the game. As Trim points out, he very much liked being a soldier but it didn’t include an off-season nor pay as much as baseball, and he very much enjoyed hunting and fishing, which are pursuits that don’t pay. I don’t think it’s denigrating the man to say that he might have been the greatest hitter who ever played the game, but also, according to all available evidence, cared very little about baseball during his career.
its_happening
“Biographies” – someone else wrote the book, not Williams. I read his autobiography. Nothing in it suggested that he cared very little about baseball.
May as well say Tony Gwynn didn’t care about baseball because he played overweight in the 90’s. It’s an asinine comment to make, and you just made it with false and misleading stories about Williams. However, I’ll stop here. Can’t argue with the misinformed, ignorant know-nothings.
davidcoonce74
You can’t address any of the facts about Williams’ life, which included baseball in-season, but not baseball in the offseason. This isn’t some hot take or revelation; there are literally hundreds of sources that describe his attitude towards the game. It doesn’t diminish how good he was in the slightest; it just is what it is. And an autobiography, mostly written by a ghostwriter, is just a cheap hagiography.
its_happening
^I can’t address facts? You brought up fake biographies with questionable sources about a guy that literally wanted to be known as the greatest hitter that ever lived. Ah forget it, you’re a lost cause.
HalosHeavenJJ
Nice list. Mo and Halladay were simply amazing.
batty
I’m happy that Mariano got 100%. It'[s well deserved. I’m still pissed that others in the past didn’t also receive that honor. Mariano, while rightfully getting that approval, should not have been the first HoF’er to get it.
indiansfan44
There are a lot of people that should have got it but didn’t but I’m happy about it for 2 reasons. First there wasn’t any other reliever I have ever watched that I wanted to see come in less cause you knew it was over. But more importantly now that someone has got 100 we can hopefully move on and the writers can vote for who they feel deserves it and not worry about it being unanimous anymore.
batty
Hopefully that prediction is true. But the other side of the coin may see a couple of other outcomes. 1) Well, we voted one in at 100% so the complainers can shut up now and we’ll go back to the previous route. 2) Some may now get 100% that aren’t really as deserving of that level. Kind of like a dam bursting…or at least cracks opening up.
Those are two pessimistic outcomes on my part, but i’ve got little reason to trust the media voting.
⚾The Heater from Van Meter⚾
What! No Curtis Montague Schilling? Lame sauce.
LarsLap
Next years vote will be interesting. With only Jeter as an obvious choice coming on the ballot. He will get all of Mo’s votes, so that will leave over 1200 potential votes cleared from the three in and the Crime Dog’s to be spread around the returning players. Should be some big percentage bumps next year.
xabial
Not a M’s fan, but happy Edgar Martinez FINALLY in HOF his final year of HOF eligibility.
bhambrave
AL East bias.
brian214
Wow, Mussina got in and not Schilling. That is pretty bad. Not saying MM wasn’t great, because he was. I just feel it’s pathetic that voters are punishing Schilling because of his political views (as if it’s not obvious).
Mariano definitely deserved each and every vote.
Watched highlights of Doc’s perfect game and his playoff no hitter today. Still sends chills down my spine.
AllRiseForTheJudge
I hate Curt Schilling as a ballplayer because of how he beat up on the Yankees back in the day, but he absolutely deserves to be in the HOF. Unfortunately, he’s likely never getting in because he didn’t know when to stop talking and pissed off a lot of writers with comments he made about them, specifically.
I think it’s more him bashing the writers than his political views, which, if you’re hoping to garner support for Cooperstown, is probably not the best move you can make.
brian214
Haha, you’re right. Lesson to be learned is don’t tick off the very people you need in your corner.
bostonbob
Agreed
davidcoonce74
It’s not Schilling’s political views – most baseball players are pretty conservative politically. There is steroid suspicion around Schilling, right or wrong, and the HoF does have a character clause that hurts Schilling with regards to the crooked company he ran into the ground, stealing tens of millions of taxpayer dollars in the process.
its_happening
^Seldom right and wrong again. Suspicion of steroids should have kept many other current Hall of Famers out and on the ballot (or off if 10 years has passed). The articles and tweets sent by members of the BBWAA have pointed toward Curt’s political views and beliefs. They aren’t hiding it.
As for his company, nobody asked the state to hand over money for a gaming company. Politicians should be ashamed of themselves.
Steven Chinwood
Liberals always believe what they say no matter what the consequences. There’s no better examples than the media’s preemptive vilification of those Catholic students in DC Friday. Oh who can forget the Duke Lacrosse scandal, UVA Rolling Stone rape article, on and on.
davidcoonce74
Or, how about Tim McVeigh, at the height of Conservative anti-government rhetoric, murdering 168 people and wounding 700 more in Oklahoma City? Or any number of mass shootings at gay nightclubs at the height of anti-gay conservative demagoguery? Or how about Dylann Roof? Two can play at this game.
its_happening
^More like 1 plays the game of using false information to push an argument. That would be you, Starbucks.
davidcoonce74
Timothy McVeigh was false? Please enlighten…
its_happening
^Can’t enlighten the ignorant. Enjoy your overpriced Starbucks latte.
davidcoonce74
Okay. Haven’t been to a Starbucks in years and years, but you enjoy pretending that Tim McVeigh wasn’t a conservative with a vendetta that killed 168 people.
its_happening
^As though McVeigh was your only false comment made. Dude get a life, mix in a visit to Panera and find a job.
butch779988
Still no Schilling?
Goose
Mussina and Halladay were excellent pitchers but should NOT be in the HOF. Schilling was better than both and dominate in the post season.
Vizquel keeps getting screwed. Ozzie Smith was a first ballot HOFer. Vizquel is the second best defensive SS I have seen and he was a better hitter with speed. He keeps getting the shaft.
Nigel Mckenzie
Man cmon Halliday was the bomb. He threw complete game shutouts for a joke. No hitter his first playoff game. Schilling does deserve to get in but don’t be sour on the Doc. Mussina is a stud too.
lioneyz
Couldn’t agree more about Halladay and Mussina not being worthy of the HoF. I’m sure it sounds absurdly simplistic and dumb but being a lifelong baseball when I make my determination based upon my immediate gut reaction when I hear a player’s name. Roy and Mike simply don’t make it.
I know, I know, you’re blown away by my use of elaborate formulas and analytics
I can proudly state though that my basic gut method has a near flawless record.
AndyMeyer
Halladay not worthy of the Hall? Wow….
StillSkydome
“absurdly simplistic and dumb”… thanks for saying it yourself so I don’t have to. Halladay’s stats speak for themselves, but all Jays fans know that for years he was the only bright spot in a pretty sad organization. All he did was DOMINATE every five days — one complete game after another, frequently under two hours. At the end of his contract, it was one of the few times I know when fans supported a trade to a contender because they knew Roy’s brilliance was being wasted. The great “what if” is if the Jays could have held on to Chris Carpenter. With a rotation built around those two, history might be different.
its_happening
Not sure if Carp would have turned the corner with the Jays. Dave Duncan had a habit of turning talented pitchers into perennial allstars. Dave Stewart is one of the best examples, and another ex-Jay improved after leaving Toronto for Duncan’s A’s and Cards – Todd Stottlemyre. Woody Williams even saw a late-resurgence as did Pat Hentgen for 1 season. Not to mention Mike Moore, Scott Sanderson, Darryl Kile, Andy Benes, Matt Morris (list goes on).
AndyMeyer
Schilling better than Doc? Wow…..
Strike Four
Ok we get it, you writers made your point, you can put Bonds and Clemens in next year.
ThatBallwasBryzzoed
They cheated they dont deserve to be in.
hiflew
The Hall is already full of cheaters. What difference would it make?
kodion
They won’t get to enjoy it.
If I got a vote, they would go in thru the Veteran/Era committee posthumously
ThatBallwasBryzzoed
Other than piazza and pudge who else cheated.
hiflew
Gaylord Perry. I’m sure there are more.
brewcrewer
bagwell
John Egan
amphetamines go back to the 40s… so, half the hall I’d say…
Polish Hammer
Wait, Piazza cheated? Isn’t this an old baseball urban legend? And while Pudge was alleged to have cheated was it ever proven?
The_M4N
Well, if these two are in, then what’s the argument for keeping Bonds and Clemens out? That they cheated better? I always go back to the fact that steroids were good for baseball (brought the fans back after the strike). They were good for new outlets (sold a lot of papers). So MLB and the Media immensely benefited from PEDers. Why do Bonds and Clemens are the only ones bearing the penalty? I never got that.
canocorn
I’m so glad that scheming little Mother Theresa wasn’t voted in.
indiansfan44
If they get in I don’t think it will be until their final year of eligibility.
higherandtighter
Yep. 2022. Along with A-Rod (1st ballot.)
They would likely the only inductees that year.
It has a poetry to it.
ThatBallwasBryzzoed
ARod is not getting in.. from his first game with the rangers to his last with the Yankees he was in something. The injuries proved he got off them.
He will get votes. But he a pos. Cheated on and left his wife and 2 daughters for jlo. Thats messed up. That’s as bad as michael Jordan leaving his wife after 45 years just so he could build a 30 million dollar mansion for himself.
Polish Hammer
Didn’t leave his wife for JLo, those relationships are years apart. July 7, 2008 was the divorce and he started seeing JLo in February 2017…moron!
Steven Chinwood
People give Cubs fans a black eye…
Polish Hammer
Also didn’t realize Jordan was married for 45 years, damn shame he left “his wife after 45 years”…poor woman only walked away with $168,000,000.00 just so he could build himself a mansion…SMH…
Yankeepatriot
Moose and Edgar alright !!!!! I was worried about them both. No was a sure in and Halliday congrats to him. RIP doc
Yankeepatriot
Once Morris got in due to one game that opened the flood gates
ThatBallwasBryzzoed
Just glad Bonds and Clemens didnt get in.
hiflew
2 people actually voted for Placido Polanco for the Hall of Fame. I’m a huge proponent of a couple of players getting a single vote from their local media. Jim Deshaies actually campaigned for a single vote a while back. But Polanco getting 2 votes is a bit more puzzling. Not only was he never the best player on his team, he was probably never even the 4th or 5th best player on his own team.
its_happening
Anytime voters complain about not having enough space on the ballot, point to the guys voting for Polanco. Last year it was Livan Hernandez and Carlos lee getting a vote. Tim Wakefield in 2017. Many others…
Priggs89
#SavesDontMatter
kodion
Congratulations to all the new inductees.
Sadly, tho, I find myself celebrating Bonds’ and Clemens’ lack of progress as much or more.
phantomofdb
You’re right, that is sad. For you. They should be in
PopeMarley
These little victories help get him through his meaningless days…
ThatBallwasBryzzoed
No they dont. Bonds especially. Only his numbers prior to going to San francisco were legit.
Plus he was one of many names from the BALCO case. None of those players should get in or be in. Its saf too because he was a hofer before he cheated.
PopeMarley
How about Ortiz then?
ThatBallwasBryzzoed
Ortiz will get in without question. If you’re implying he cheated he did not.
PopeMarley
WTF, Ortiz tested positive and was on the original list. Do some research because he even acknowledges it but cries about it!
Steven Chinwood
Your research skills about Arod were bad enough, and now this.smfh
The_M4N
LOL, Only a real homer will believe that. As for Papi (which should be in the HoF) he is still trying to figure out why those “bitamins” caused him to test positive.
The HOF is, first and foremost, a museum. Museums document history. The steroid era is part of baseball’s history. Document the history. Bonds, Clemens, should have been in long time ago. Other PEDers are already in. So, there goes the steroid argument. So, what’s next, the character clause? Drug dealers, flaming racist, wife beaters already in the Hall.
Any other arguments?
quicsilver
Anyone who says “no disrespect to Mo” or “he deserved it but others did also” who cares? He got in, someone broke down that bs wall that the writers built. Be happy your favorite player made it in and we can finally have more 100% in the future.
Battman34
What a joke that Mussina is in but Schilling is out. Nobody would pick Mussina over Schilling to be on their team or pitch a big game. This is not supposed to be a personality contest. Schilling is only pitcher not in Hall with 3000 ks and his whip and strikeout to walk ratio is better than a large majority of existing hall of fame pitchers. 3 time WS champ as well.
PurpleLemon
Schill hurt peoples delicate feelings and has different political views than most journalists and many writers seem to think that has anything to do with his career.
PurpleLemon
I know it’s silly, but I have a hard time calling any reliever who averaged less than a K an inning “unequivocally the best relief pitcher the game has ever seen”. Obviously he deserves in but such a huge chunk of the touted accomplishments are centered around him constantly being on Yankee playoff teams…which, again obviously, are not individual achievements.
Meh. .
Corazon5
I can understand where you’re coming from but I really don’t think there’s a solid argument for any relief pitcher being better than Rivera. Relief pitchers are notorious for being inconsistent and unpredictable from year to year. That can’t be said about Mo. When he came out of the bullpen you always thought the game was over, and that was the case throughout his whole career. It’s certainly true that he was on some great teams which won a ton of games, but you still have to perform in the biggest moments, which he did. As for the strikeouts, his cutter got so much weak contact it didn’t always matter that he didn’t miss the bat because the ball didn’t go anywhere.
PurpleLemon
You’re not wrong. Guess it’s just a personal thing for me. From the same era I’d still say Billy Wagner was more dominant.
puddles
Hard for me to agree that Wagner was more dominant when Rivera limited runs better both over their peaks and over the entirety of a (significantly longer) career. I actually lean towards Riveras cutter being more dominant than strikeouts. Everyone knew it was coming and nobody could do anything with it – that is as textbook as dominance gets for me, personally.
Willy Mays
Funny a ground ball or fly out counts as outs just like ks. Does that mean that Maddox wasn’t great, In 141 post season innings he let in 11 runs.Pitchers can’t even dream of doing that. But too bad he didn’t have a k an inning. He had a lower lifetime era than Hoffman Eckersley Fingers and Wagner with Wagner the only one even close and that was during the season so your comment about his greatness being due to his playoff results is wrong Comment was ridiculous.
gomerhodge71
Mo and Mussina? Definitely. Martinez? Maybe. Halladay? No. 50 other pitchers had better stats who aren’t in. Pity vote.
Battman34
Halladay was a much more dominant pitcher than Moose. What were you watching?
ThatBallwasBryzzoed
Halliday no doubt deserves it. I just gotta wonder did they vote in less than 2 years before his untimely death or did voters actually genuinely vote him in. It happens like that sometimes.
AndyMeyer
Doc Halladay was the most dominant pitcher for a long time. Check the numbers. His induction is well deserved
davidcoonce74
What numbers are you referring to w/r/t Halladay’s “dominance.”? He led the league in wins twice and IP four times. Career 6.9 K/9 is hardly dominant. Career 3.38 ERA is hardly dominant, although good for the era. He led the league in complete games a bunch but his durability is a little overrated – he had several abbreviated injury seasons and he was basically done by age 34. He seemed like a well-liked guy and obviously the tragedy of his death weighed on the voters; I think Halladay is a marginal Hall of Famer, the fact that he got in on the first ballot while it took Mussina, who was basically the same pitcher, 7 tries, is peculiar.
its_happening
Moose was no Roy Halladay. Nice try.
AndyMeyer
61 complete games from 2003-2011. In an era where pitchers were moving away from throwing complete games to save innings and you say his durability was overrated? Stop it
The number 2 guy in that span was CC Sabathia and he had 31
AndyMeyer
Is Tom Glavine a marginal hall of famer?
davidcoonce74
Well, he was done at 34 so I’d say his durability was overrated. Halladay pitched 8 full seasons. He was good and he’s far from the worst pitcher in the Hall, and he doesn’t really diminish the Hall’s standards at all, but he’s a surprising first ballot inductee.
davidcoonce74
Tom Glavine would be a marginal Hall-of-Famer had he not won 300 games. As much as I think pitching wins are overrated now, they were a little more telling as a statistic in the past, and, more importantly, no pitcher with 300 wins has ever been left out of the Hall. And since no pitcher will probably ever reach 300 again, I’m okay with that. The rest of Glavine’s numbers – 3.5 ERA, 6 k/9, losing postseason record, are just average. But he racked up lots of wins and won two Cy Young awards, just like Denny McClain did. Glavine managed to pitch forever and rack up the counting stats. His presence doesn’t diminish the Hall either.
AndyMeyer
61 complete games in 9 seasons is pretty durable to me. Average just under 7 a season. He got hurt at 34 and never recovered. He left on his terms with class, dignity and grace rather than be a shell of himself and perform not up to his standards
He pitched in the vaunted AL east and absolutely dominated the Yankees
A look deeper into his numbers and you’ll see exactly why he is (and rightly voted for) a first ballot hall of famer
AndyMeyer
And you do bring good points. Just agree to disagree
davidcoonce74
That’s fine; I am mostly surprised he was in on the first ballot; his njumbers aren’t that far removed from Mussina’s, and it took Mussina 8 tries. It will be interesting to see what happens with Santana now that this precedent has been set.
Battman34
Halladay won two cy young awards, which you conveniently left out, and according to WAR was the most valuable pitcher 4 times, so based on that it arguably could have been 4 Cy Youngs. And name me another pitcher who is currently pitching who has 34 career complete games? Halladay had 67 including 20 shutouts. Also he pitched in the AL East during the time he constantly had to face the Yankees and Red Sox all the time, with 19 games a year at that time. Also name me another pitcher in the last 20 years that led the league in innings pitched 4 times? You act like that is nothing which does not say much for your baseball knowledge. He also has a career winning percentage of 659 which is great.
I could not give a crap about durability. Greatness is what should be the determining factor. Halladay was great. Mussina was not. Mussina pitched longer. Nobody thought Mussina in his prime was as good as Halladay in his prime, other then maybe you or a Yankee or Baltimore fan.
davidcoonce74
Denny McClain won two Cy Young awards too
ThatBallwasBryzzoed
Why would Edgqr Martinez be a maybe? Hes the greatest DH of all time. I dont care if he played the field or not. That shouldnt depict whether or not someone is a hofer or not. Ortiz should have one at least 4 mvps. He got snubbed because he was a dh. His two walk offs alone in 2004 make him a hofer. Ortiz will get at least 91%
PurpleLemon
Now all it takes is two hits to be a HOFer? Watered down.
BenjiB24
What percent did Edgar get?
kabphillie
Quick! Quick! Let’s argue over a subjective award voted on by humans! Quick! Quick!
Corazon5
Good for Martinez, well deserved. Also have to think that this bodes well for Ortiz getting in when his name comes up on the ballot.
bobtillman
1,825 days till Refsnyder……..
jdgoat
Surprised they didn’t wave the 5 year rule for him and Swihart
bobtillman
Part of the next CBA contract…..
Mike415
Bonds and Clemens are getting hosed, Yes they took steroids, but steroids were not against the rules of the game at that time. There are also other steroid users currently in the hall of fame (Piazza, Thome, etc) along with the commissioner of the steroid era (Bud Selig) who choose to not to push for steroid rules because the game was so popular after coming off a labor strike. Let’s stop judging the two best players of the steroid era, and start realizing the era sucked and MLB is the one to blame.
BeisbolBaseball
Thome has never been accused of steroids. Stop dragging names through the mud.
Mike415
Ha. Like you know for 100% certain. Nobody knows. It’s all a joke. The era was tainted. Doesn’t mean you should keep out the two best players
BeisbolBaseball
I want bonds/Clemens in the Hall too. I don’t make unfounded statements about other players to try and boost their case though.
AndyMeyer
And how do you know they were? Just because it was the “era”? Stop it
canocorn
Obviously, any one of us fans could take PED’s and make it to the Hall.*
* I wouldn’t even mind the asterisk.
bhambrave
Steroids have been banned since 1991.
Mike415
Then why did Mark McGuire have androstenedione in his locker in 1998 and nobody suspended him?
HubcapDiamondStarHalo
From an article published in 2004 by MLB,com: “”Major League Baseball and the players association have added androstenedione to its list of “Schedule III” substances banned under the auspices of the Joint Drug Prevention and Treatment Program, said MLB’s top labor negotiator.
The over-the-counter supplement, colloquially known as “andro,” gained public attention in 1998 when Mark McGwire, then with the St. Louis Cardinals, disclosed he used the substance during his pursuit of the single-season home run record that year. McGwire ultimately hit 70 homers, eclipsing the record of 61 set by the Yankees’ Roger Maris in 1961.
“We’ve banned andro based on the movement of the federal government this year,” said Rob Manfred, MLB’s vice president of labor relations and human resources and also a member of the Health Policy Advisory Committee (HPAC), which has the power to make such decisions under the current Basic Agreement.”
He wasn’t suspended because it wasn’t illegal at that time.
Yankeepatriot
I bet whoever was the idiot/idiots who voted for polanco didn’t vote for Rivera to prevent him from getting in unanimously
Why do writers have such a big beef with someone getting in unanimously ??? Egos ? It’s baffling smh
Priggs89
uhhh…
“Notably, Rivera becomes the first player in the history of baseball to be unanimously selected into baseball immortality, as his name was checked on each of this year’s 425 ballots.”
HubcapDiamondStarHalo
Um… nobody prevented Rivera from getting in unanimously…
Yankeepatriot
I just saw it, I’m so stoked !!!
HubcapDiamondStarHalo
That’s good. Next time, consider reading the article BEFORE posting. It sometimes saves embarrassment.
Yankeepatriot
I’m used to no player getting in unanimously due to the egos of these ridiculous writers. Embarrassed I am not
timewalk42
No Clemens No Bonds No Rose No Sosa again the voters prove they deserve to be voting on America’s past time Hall of FAME
bbcued
Baseball HOF has become a joke. When Trammell, Baines, & Selig are in HOF but Bonds and Clemens are getting 50%. Writers are given to much power and they have ruined a previously prestigious staple of the game. Booo on you MLB.
davidcoonce74
Baines I agree is a terrible selection but Alan Trammell was a very worthy Hall of Famer He was unfortunate to have played most of his career in the shadow of Ripken, but by JAWS (a metric that incorporates career and peak value) Trammell is the 11th best shortstop of all-time. he’s better than at least half the shortstops in the Hall.
KMFN
What is a joke bonds greatest hitter of our time not in hof without steroids he’s still greatest hitter of our time and it was ok to put guys in the 70’s that were constantly higher than a kite with greenies etc
Yankeepatriot
While griffy should have been the first one I’m so glad Rivera broke the streak !!! Writers shouldn’t be voting though, too much bias
hiflew
Griffey? Babe Ruth or Hank Aaron or Willie Mays or Roberto Clemente or Cy Young or Walter Johnson or Nolan Ryan or any of about 100 other players should have been the first one ahead of Rivera.
Yankeepatriot
Agreed but the voting through the eras has changed and I used griffy as he’s a much more recent example
hiflew
Fair enough, I understand where you are coming from. I just think it is weird that someone I do not consider to be among the top 100 players of all time is the only one with 100%.
canocorn
The Game continues to evolve, and thank goodness for that (in most cases).
The DOW Industrial Average routinely boots out struggling companies in favor of the latest and greatest. Promotes optimism, but isn’t entirely honest.
Baseball is not entirely honest. That’s why it’s the perfect mirror to reflect upon the greatest country ever, albeit imperfect.
James1955
Everybody is biased. Who ever does it will be biased. Nobody is perfect.
Adam6710
The surprising part about the unanimous vote is because there’s almost ALWAYS that ONE writer who leaves off an obvious choice to get attention.
hiflew
There was this time as well, but he chose to abstain from voting completely instead of just excluding Rivera.
Comrade Tipsy McStagger
Based on this year’s ballot, I think it is quite likely that Bonds and Clemens will not get voted in by the writers. They did not get the bump that many expected. And I don’t see any way that the Veterans Committee votes them in — it would be way too controversial. Maybe forty years from now when no one on the committee has any memory of the steroids era. That will be about the same time that the first designated runner gets the call.
revolt1799
So Jeter has the chance to get 100% after that I could Adrian Beltre as the next unanimous!
maxorange33
Let that be a lesson kids if you want to get in the hall, just play half the game well and sit on the bench spitting seeds while your mates are doing the physical stuff and just saunter your ass up to bat a handful of times a game. The fact that you couldn’t play a position won’t hurt you…just avoid playing in Denver or your dream is shot!
hiflew
Why do AL pitchers that also only play half the game not get nearly as much grief as DHs?
Yankeepatriot
Anyone who’s against Rivera needs to realize he’s one of the greatest pitchers statistically of all time and did it through the course of 2 decades (especially during the round era). Also he has a 0.70 post season era in 143 or so post season innings
Nuff said
Adam6710
I believe he was referring to Edgar Martinez.
Yankeepatriot
I was speaking in general that’s all lol
hiflew
How many pitchers in history would have been as good or better than Rivera if they knew they only had to pitch 1 or 2 innings? Rivera was good at what he did, but the statistics do not tell the whole story.
goldenmisfit
Let this be a lesson kids you do not need a brain to have a comment regardless how idiotic and incoherent that comment may be. Edgar Martinez was before David Ortiz the greatest designated hitter of all time. But I bet you think Ortiz does not deserve to be in the Hall of Fame either I am begging you get drug tested.
maxorange33
Incoherent! Haha, you should be required to let us know what strain you’re smoking, good stuff! A DH is a batter, NOTHING else, ergo HALF the game and that’s being generous. He didn’t field, run, throw or really even sweat! Chewing tobacco and eating seeds
canocorn
Max; If taken literally, your original comment applies to kids who want to become politicians.
maxorange33
It actually reads as a facetious comment about the fact that a DH/half player, at best, gets in with no consideration for ignoring over half the game but if you play in thin air, no matter what your stats, you are rejected regardless of your “5 tool talent” because the air you played in was thin!
warwhatisitgoodfor
Finally!!! It’s a light bat
bigeasye
No proof bonds or Clemens ever cheated, even though they most likely did. The city of San Francisco spent 17 million dollars trying to prove it and couldn’t. Bonds is on the Mt Rushmore of baseball players next to Ruth, Aaron and Mays in my opinion.
James1955
It was a Federal Court and Federal Prosecutors, not San Francisco. Where did you get the 17 mil from?
YourDaddy
He made it up.
Polish Hammer
A guy went away to federal prison to protect the fact that Balco Barry cheated the game with PEDS…then again maybe it’s normal that a guy grows so much so late in his athletic career that they’ve outgrown their shoes and hats by several sizes.
SnakeX3
What about his hat? Compare the size of the guy’s head. It was huge!
SnakeX3
Yeah. He deserves to be on the Mt Rushmore of Baseball but alongside McGuire, Palmeiro and Manny Ramirez
YourDaddy
We knew Mo would get in. He is the best reliever ever to be eligible for the Hall of Fame. The only question was if he would get 100%. He did!
The big one for me was Moose. It was his 10th and final shot and he deserved it. Glad to see him finally get in.
Not sure about designated hitters getting in. Martinez was a great hitter. No doubt about that. I guess this also means Big Papi is elected in a few years.
Sad not to see McGriff get in. He played clean and he was an incredible player. If Baines got voted in, Crime Dog deserves it.
Glad to see Bonds, Clemens and the rest of the PED cheaters not get in again.
hiflew
McGriff will get in because former teammates Glavine, Smoltz, Maddux, Chipper, and manager Bobby Cox will potentially be on the Vets Committee next time. He deserves it.
Adam6710
I didn’t vote for Mussina, and i’m a Yankee fan. He was a great pitcher, but for my money, he was never the dominant elite starter at any point in his career that most HOF starters are. He never won a Cy Young, never had a no-hitter.
I don’t think he’s entirely undeserving, I guess what i’m saying is that i’m surprised.
YourDaddy
Most guys with no-hitters will never sniff the Hall of Fame. OF the last 20 guys to do it, only Scherzer has a shot at the HOF. espn.com/mlb/history/nohitters
Moose was dominant for his career. fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=sta&…
Only 4 guys above him on that list and they are all in the HOF except Clemens who cheated. 3 guys below him are in the HOF.
He belongs.
Adam6710
I am aware of all of that, but thanks for telling me what I already know. So useful. The fact that it took until his last year of eligibility tells me a lot of people agreed with me, so…. shrug.
I also never said he didn’t belong, so try reading next time.
MB923
It wasn’t Mussina’s last year. It was his 6th year.
Try doing more research next time.
Adam6710
Some TV commentator mentioned it was his last eligible year (a less-knowledgable local newscaster, apparently) so I trusted that. Regardless, 6 years of failure says something.
One stat I hadn’t considered though is his 6 gold gloves.
bbcued
You can’t say definitively that anyone played clean… that’s the whole problem with writers deciding based on there own opinions who is and is not guilty.
mike156
All terrific players, all worthy. Not inner circle, but the votes were deserved. Hall is improved by their presence.
njbirdsfan
Of course a specialist would be the first unanimous. And next will be Jeter, who never met a routine grounder he couldn’t make look far more difficult than it actually was.
mike156
Yes, he’s a specialist, but he’s also Mariano Rivera, for the moment, considered the best closer in history. Forget the unanimous stuff–it really is a binary choice, and if you feel that no closer should get in, I respect that. Otherwise, it would have been someone else. We’ve broken the unanimous barrier, and maybe that’s a good thing, so some writers don’t have to get balled up with “is he first ballot”
SnakeX3
I am staunchly against Closers in the Hall….except for Rivera. He was a first ballot, but he wouldn’t have gotten my vote on that first ballot because he was a Closer. Yes. I would be *THAT* guy.
His value by WAR is that of a very good starter for an average length career or a great starter with a short career. He’d have gotten my vote second ballot, but I never would have gotten the chance to cast that vote. And I’d be fine with that as long as a closer never got 100% of the vote.
nyy42
Jeter is a 1st ballot HOF but not a 100% of votes.
Polish Hammer
The best Punch & Judy baseball has ever seen…had he been a Royal or Brewer and not blessed with the best talent around him that money could buy every year he’d have been viewed totally different….
Yankeepatriot
By your logic ichiro should not be in as he was mostly a singles hitter ….
MB923
He would be Craig Biggio, who last I checked, Is a HOFer
Polish Hammer
And therefore “viewed differently” just like I said, far less than a 100% surefire HoFer…
MB923
Of course he would be viewed differently, but that doesn’t mean his postseason accomplishments should be ignored. Fact remains Jeter was a part of 5 WS teams and is one of the best postseason players of all time. Same goes for David Ortiz, a probable 1st ballot HOFer who I’m sure would be viewed differently than Edgar Martinez who was just as if not better but didn’t make it until the final year.
Polish Hammer
Difference is Big Sloppi juiced.
canocorn
PED’s are just one of the cancers that have afflicted The Game over the years. Gambling was another, as were spitballs. All three examples are in remission, but could still resurge in mutated forms.
Like cancer, you’ve got to fight these things with everything you’ve got. Sometimes that means cutting out the bad. It is perhaps misguided to be sympathetic towards those formerly healthy cells that were corrupted by the cancer. They’ve got to go, for the sake of the greater good.
But always bear in mind, they’re ultimately the victims — not the cause — of the cancer.
bjsguess
Player A – 216-146 (W-L) | 3.46 ERA | 3.17 xFIP | 3260 IP | 3116 K | 4.38 K/BB | 80 fWAR
Player B – 270-153 (W-L) | 3.68 ERA | 3.68 xFIP | 3562 IP | 2813 K | 3.58 K/BB | 82 fWAR
Player A – 6 All-Star | 3 top 2 places in CY | 11 top 6 places in WHIP | 15th in career K’s
Player B – 5 All-Star | 1 top 2 places in CY | 10 top 6 places in WHIP | 20th in career K’s
And if you throw in the post-season – Player A is arguably the greatest starting pitcher in the playoffs over the past 20 years.
Schilling (Player A) fell 16% short of Mussina (Player B). Mussina played a little longer and had the better W/L record. Everything else was a wash or Schilling was clearly better. Hate Schilling all you want, but he is just as deserving as Mussina, if not more so. A travesty that he was passed up.
Juggy
Schilling is a complete bum… I don’t care all the down votes… he was a major cry baby..
its_happening
Crybabys don’t clutch up in October the way Curt did.
pjmcnu
It is brutal that Fred McGriff keeps getting shut out of the Hall. A true victim of being a steroid-free power hitter in the steroid era.
bbcued
1. You can’t say definitively he’s steroid free
2. If it was an offensive HOF he’d be in, but he was awful on the bases, not a good fielder… there’s more than just being a power hitter
jdgoat
Veterans committee will put him in.
Patrick OKennedy
Career WAR:
58. Mussina, 83.0
78. Whitaker 75.1
116. Edgar Martinez 68.4
144. Halladay, 64.3
227. Mariano Rivera 56.2
PinstripedPride
Congratulations to the lucky four! They deserved it. Also great to see the most dominating closer in baseball history get inducted unanimously. Standing O from me
PurpleLemon
Billy Wagner was more dominant during the same era.
YourDaddy
No. He wasn’t. fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=rel&…
Randia
i am a met fan, and wagner wasnt, not even close, you never felt the game was over when wagner came in, he was like walking on dynomite, with rivera you felt oh well game over, the few times he did fail you were in shock
as I said I am a met fan, wagner while good, was no where near Rivera
PurpleLemon
I’m a Cardinal fan. I can assure you many, many times feeling a game was over when Wagner came in. He gave up fewer hits than Mo and had a much higher K rate. Lower WHIP, similar ERA. lol @ not even close
Jesse Stirling
Congratulations to the newest four initiates into Cooperstown. Kind of a joke that Bonds & Clemens are still on the outs; but hopefully that situation gets rectified next year.
exile
The voters need to vote Schilling into the Hall of Fame. Schilling was a more dominant pitcher than Mussina. Politics should not determine whether someone should be inducted into the HOF.
YourDaddy
fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=sta&…
exile
Schilling was more dominant in his prime, and was also excellent in the post season helping Arizona and Boston win World Series. Schilling also has a lower career WHIP, FIP, and a lower ERA 3.46 vs Mussina’s 3.68.
Schilling has 3 runner ups for Cy Young while Mussina only has 1..
davidcoonce74
Schilling also has a ton of steroid suspicion and he has a lousy character that includes doing provocative things like claiming gay people are child molesters and, oh yeah, Schilling defrauded the taxpayers of Rhode Island out of tens of millions of dollars
Oxford Karma
This was the right four. No one should have any issue with Edgar, after Baines got in. When Edgar came up, there was fear if you didn’t make your pitch, he would beat you. That’s a HOF player.
DarrenDreifortsContract
They let anyone into the HOF these days. Who’s next? Brandon Webb?
RangerRick123
as a Dbacks fan I’m all for that… lol… although there’s a zero % chance due to his career cut short due to injury…
RangerRick123
So…. if Mike Mussina got into the HOF…. then why didn’t someone like Vida Blue?
VIDA BLUE
MVP (as a pitcher)
Cy Young award winner
ERA Title
6x all star
3.27 career ERA in 17 seasons
8 seasons of over 250 innings pitched (which is insane by todays standards)
My point is, Mussina got in without the traditional criteria needed to get in… whether it’s accolades (Cy Young awards) or the traditional milestones (300 wins or 3000 strikeouts or a 3.00 era) needed to make the Hall. Hopefully this NEW Game Era committee looks at players like Vida Blue. Tony Oliva is another player I hope the Game Era Committee looks at…
PurpleLemon
Vida doesn’t get the Yankee rub.
MB923
lol, Mussina was better as an Oriole than a Yankee.
It’s ridiculous how many people think it’s a “Yankee bias” when there are voters from all around the country.
SocraticGadfly
Rivera? Yeah, yeah, the HOF is the HOF. But I wish somebody had turned in a ballot with his name not on it rather than not vote. Especially with him being a closer. And, he wasn’t perfect in the postseason either, as Snakes fans of course know.
Mussina? Should have been in years ago.
Gar? 1B/DH should be better in counting stats, IMO. Yeah, he’s not THAT far behind Molitor on WAR (Molitor played more games in the field, though), but he’s way behind on the counting stats.
Halladay? Not a slam dunk but not objectionable, either. Probably did benefit from some sympathy votes.
moethacker
Only quibble – seems to me a vote against Rivera would have served no purpose other than preserving a rather silly tradition. I think it was shortsighted not have inducted all five of the first five unanimously, setting them as the bar for careers to follow. Granted, that creates its own problems with the well-worn debates about cross-era comparisons, but it would have made much more sense to me to start with unanimous and use them as the benchmarks for all to follow. Leaves you nowhere to go in case someone came along who was better than Ruth except to say that someone matched Ruth (or Wagner, or Johnson, or Mathewson, etc.). It is after all, the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of the Really Good.
Remarks on Martinez are spot on – since there’s no defensive component to add in, someone getting in as a DH should have held to higher offensive standards. That would make more work for the voters – sorting out what they did as DH as opposed to games they played in the field – but to me it’s a necessary exercise to ascertain the HOF-worthy. I wouldn’t discount 1B defense too much – there’s a reason why great players at other positions have not been able simply to put on the 1B mitt and play the position. The footwork ain’t as easy as the good ones make it look. A decent can save a lot of extra bases and baserunners collecting garbage throws from the other infielders and poor fielding pitchers.
jd396
1) DH exists in baseball. Like it or not.
2) “Hold him to a higher offensive standard” is just a fancy way of saying “I don’t know much about Edgar’s numbers”.
SocraticGadfly
No it’s not, JD.
B-Ref, to which our host links player info, specifically weights analytics on player batting by fielding position. DH has an even bigger “negative adjustment” than 1B. Scroll about halfway down:
baseball-reference.com/about/war_explained_positio…
A 1B/DH type should have better counting stats IMO, and a little better oWAR.
AndyMeyer
Halladay not a slam dunk? That’s crazy talk. No sympathy votes. All on merit
kiddhoff
A pitcher with an era over 3.50 is not hall of fame material. Halladay was fun to watch, but HOF’er? Dunno. Slim Pickens. Discredits the Hall to a degree. And Edgar? Absolutely nope. All of these guys were above average, but not worthy.
AndyMeyer
These guys were “above average”. Wow man….
AndyMeyer
Career 3.38 ERA for Doc
its_happening
Kidd was referring to the very good Mike Mussina with the ERA over 3.50
Vizionaire
vote bonds in!
OCTraveler
Every year another class enters the “Hall of OK” – can’t be considered the “best of the best” until they admit Bonds, Rose, Clemens, McGuire, etc. What’s keeping them out is no worse than what baseball did until Brooklyn signed Robinson.
jd396
Now we’re comparing roid users being snubbed for the HOF to the color barrier.
Starbucks running out of coconut milk for your latte is no worse than 3.7 million Ukrainians dying in the famine of 1932-33.
SocraticGadfly
We’re also, with OC, comparing alleged roiders to a man who admitted betting on his own team and overusing pitchers to cover bets.
And, hell, for all I know, Pete Rose may have bet AGAINST his own team. For all I know, John Dowd may have found that out and buried it.
Cat Mando
The only things Dowd ever left out were things he could not conclusively prove. For instance, he was sure that Rose bet as a player/manager but could not prove it, it has since been been proven. He had heard of Rose’s proclivity for young girls. He couldn’t prove it so he left it out. It’s now been proven and Rose even admitted it with the caveat of “I thought she was 16” (the age of consent in OH) when she in fact says she was 14/15.
Dowd did find that the only times Rose never bet on the Reds was when a certain pitcher, the name escapes me atm, was on the mound.
I doubt Dowd would have buried Rose betting against the Reds
luckyh
Schilling is Mussina with 3 rings, WS MVP and a full point lower post season ERA. Garbage Moose gets in before he does.
lowtalker1
Roids fool
driftcat28 2
Not even close
butch779988
I’d take Schilling all day over Mussina..
lowtalker1
There is no way riveria should have been unanimous
The kid should have been
MB923
Just because the Kid should have doesn’t mean Rivera shouldn’t have.
By your logic, since Mays and Ruth weren’t, The Kid shouldn’t have.
I think Rivera should have been unanimous, but I don’t think Rivera should have been the first unanimous. You’re either a HOFer or you’re not.
davidcoonce74
Mays should have been the first, Aaron should have been the first if Mays wasn’t. I think we know why neither was unanimous – lots of old old BBWAA writers back then. Rickey and Tony Gwynn should have been unanimous too, IMO, but they have the same issues with old BBWAA writers; the electorate looks a lo.t different now. I would expect Jeter to be in unanimously next year too
MB923
Actually the first should have been the first guys put in (Ruth, Cobb, Walter Johnson, etc.)
davidcoonce74
There were just too many guys on the original ballot to be unanimous. When there are hundreds of choices it’s way harder to win any kind of vote unanimously.
the reaper
Anybody else looking forward to the goose gossage rant about Rivera not being worthy
davidcoonce74
Ugh; I would argue that Gossage is one of the 15 or so least-worthy Hall of Famers, and as bullpens evolve, his selection is going to look even more absurd and silly than it did at the time. He’s not doing himself any favors by being such a prick about “these young kids” these days.
Yankeepatriot
I wonder which cap moose will pick to go into the hall with ?
moethacker
John Deere?
itsmeheyhi
the hof chooses now
Yankeepatriot
I think the player should
SnakeX3
I think it’s gotta be the Orioles.
canocorn
As a cap salesman, I say all 30 caps should be chosen.
Polish Hammer
Montoursville High School
megaj
That wasn’t a “ratio” when you listed Rivera’s strikeouts to walks, those were just his full stats. The ratio itself would have been around 4:1.
The Krukker
If Bonds, Clemens, Ramirez and company aren’t in the Hall, then Bud Selig shouldn’t be in the Hall. It’s a joke. The man either knew what was going on and let it fly or he was blind to the institutionalization of steroids and let it happen under his watch. Either way, if the stars who used don’t deserve to be in, Bud Selig also doesn’t deserve to be in.
When Manny Ramirez was drafted he signed a contract with the Indians stipulating that he had to take “vitamin” injections or he would void his contract. Richie Sexon had to do the same thing. All of their top picks had to. The Indians weren’t the only organization doing this. The use of steroids in baseball wasn’t just the result of rogue individuals, it was institutionalized and coming from the top down. Bud Selig built his Hall of Fame credentials on steroid use, yet he’s in and the players that he used to get there are not. It’s a sham and I hope the truth is revealed someday.
case7187
Fred McGriff belongs in the HOF
Polish Hammer
Yeah right after Juan Gonzalez and Gary Sheffield…
SnakeX3
Point made. But still! He’s the Hit Dog! LOL He’ll get his day though I am sure. Along with the other close calls. Dang shame. Love the Hit Dog. I’d vote for him, but that is why they have a cutoff % and a 10 year limit. Everyone doesn’t get a trophy…and I’m fine with that if someone I think is worthy is outvoted. But Edgar? Mussina? No Hit Dog? How does that work?
SnakeX3
Based on the sorry lot of inductees this year (BAINES, Smith, Mussina, Edgar) you are dang straight he does.
From an article right here on MLB Rumors “Burns notes that Markakis won’t suit up for all 162 games next season, as he did in 2018, which the club believes will help the 35-year-old to stay fresher and to avoid a second-half slump.”
Gee…wonder how fresh someone would be when they play virtually an entire (extended) career as a glorified pinch hitter? But that doesn’t matter, does it? DH’s are people too! The American League can have their jokes in the Hall. JOKES! Closers, DHs and good SPs. UGG.
No disrespect to Rivera. He deserved it. But Smith. yeesh
driftcat28 2
Didn’t one write abstain from voting because he wasn’t going to vote for Mo? Imagine he missed being unanimous by one vote
xabial
He changed his mind, and went along voted for Mo.
He wrote exactly why he changed his mind:
https://www.telegram.com/news/20190122/bill-ballou-after-further-review-i-voted-for-hall-of-fame—and-mariano-rivera
itsmeheyhi
abstaining doesnt affect the %
Randia
true but I only wish others would have abstained on griffey, seaver, aaron etc. letting writers use personal animus in the voting is wrong
i understand and agree with the Stance on Bonds and Clemens and Rose because they are choosing to lie and disrespecting the game , themselves and the fans, butvoters using their vote to hold grudges is wrong
Mrtwotone
Loved watching Halladay pitch. Even though he was on a rival team it was still a treat to watch. So much respect
Dan Miller
It’s a shame that Halladay didn’t live long enough to see this day. Glad that Edgar Martinez finally got in; any hitter that good has to be in the HOF. Not sure Moose deserves to be in, but Mo? Was there ever any doubt?
Rayland#1
Juice free.
commercecomet7
Edgar had to go in, Ortiz will get in and hard to believe he could win the Edgar Martinez Award as DH, and not have Edgar in the hall.
SnakeX3
That’s about the size of it and just like Baines getting in (and before either of them??? WTF?!). assured Edgar geting in you just knew he would make it. I just can’t believe they let guys in the HALL OF F***ING FAME that couldn’t even play the field or hit Hall benchmarks like 3k/500. It just blows my mind.
Oh well. At least Edgar could hit. I’ll get over that…but NEVER Baines. It may not matter in the big scheme of life, but baseball is life and baseball does matter.
HubcapDiamondStarHalo
I’m delighted that Mo got into the HOF unanimously. It’s plainly obvious that he wasn’t the first to deserve being unanimous, but he absolutely deserved to be named on every ballot. Adding to his career accomplishments, he is now the one who finally broke that absurd barrier.
One thing I’d be interested to hear opinions on – I’m of the mind that he was largely responsible for changing how current rosters are put together. He wasn’t the first ever closer, obviously, but I honestly believe he was the guy rival GMs looked at and said, “we HAVE to find a dominant closer to have a serious chance in today’s game.”
I’ve seen all the arguments about only pitching part of a game (much like all the “no DHs in the hall” arguments), but I will offer that it was the job they were asked to do by the people signing their paychecks, and to date (for HOF purposes), Mo and Martinez were the best at doing the specific job they were asked to do. I’d further warn that fans should likely get used to it. More and more and more, the game has become one of specialization… and more and more, the specialists who are the very best at doing what they’re asked to do are going to be in the hall.
I’m also happy to see that many articles are citing his character and extensive humanitarian work. He’s a good man, within and outside of baseball. I know that doesn’t count in the box score, but I do still like it when somebody gets in who played well and used his privilege in life for the good of many others.
And for the record, I’m also seriously glad that the Red Sox never have to bat against him ever again.
Randia
since youre a red sox fan, I salute you, you get it… its sad some others do not
SnakeX3
What a year! First Baines and Smith, then Edgar and Mussina. smh Like Miller Lite this is a watered down can of HOF inductees.
HarveyD82
hall of very good continues
hiflew
Why do people think “Fame” and “Very Good” are on the same scale? Serious question.
CrownRocks
Mussina was good, but never great. He played a looong time, and accumulated stats. The fact that he avoided a major injury, shouldn’t get him into the HoF.
On the other hand, Halliday was great often, but didn’t play long enough to accumulate some of the sexier stats. I don’t think he’s HoF worthy, either.
User 589131137
not sure about Halladay.
AndyMeyer
Why? The most dominant pitcher in the game for a long time
its_happening
With Halladay in, a case can now be made for Johan Santana. Some would argue Johan was the better pitcher in the mid-2000s.
AndyMeyer
Nope
jleve618
I heard an interesting point today, bonds and clemens last year on the ballot is ortiz’s first. Should be fascinating.
jd396
If they gave me a ballot, I’d definitely vote Edgar and Mariano. They both did things no one did before (whether you like DH’s and CP’s or not, they both pretty much revolutionized their positions in their own ways) but I’m not quite sure on Mussina and Halladay. I can see arguments both ways on them.
jleve618
Halladay seems a no brainer for me personally but I don’t know how you can do mussin and not schilling.
MB923
There’s a reason Schilling is not in the HOF as of now, and it in large part has nothing to do with his numbers.
DarkSide830
…though the validity of such reason is highly debatable
Comrade Tipsy McStagger
What do Mickey Mantle, Ivan Rodriguez, Robin Yount, and Whitey Ford have in common?
SnakeX3
All had 3 times the WAR of Harold Baines? Heh heh.
They were first ballot HOFers. Got more of a hint?
ron cey
i would have to look but Edgar and Steve Garvey seem to have similar stats. i hope Garvey gets in eventually
Comrade Tipsy McStagger
Fact: If you mention the alleged cheating of Bonds, Sosa, Clemens, that is considered okay.
Fact: If you mention the alleged cheating of HOFers Mantle, Sutton, Ford, Cobb, Speaker (and others) you get flagged. How is that fair?
STLBaseballFanSince2020
Isn’t Sosa the loser that used PED’s AND corked his bats? How insecure do you have to be?
Moneyballer
Curt Schilling Hall Of Famer Up Vote
Curt Schilling Not Hall Of Famer Down Vote
Guest617
shilling deserves the nod, but he’d run his mouth and find a way to get kicked out. moose had 1-2 yrs of gas in the tank. good to see bonds, clemens and sosa shut-out.
its_happening
If Mussina is a Hall of Famer, Schilling is a Hall of Famer. We’ll call collusion on the part of BBWAA.
If Edgar’s a Hall of Famer then he should have been voted in years ago. Maybe 2013 when nobody made 75%. BBWAA proved a point? Ok. Yet now they complain about having only 10 picks per ballot. Well geniuses, do your job properly and you’ll have the space for other names. Very simple.
If Jeff Bagwell is a Hall of Famer, Fred McGriff is a Hall of Famer. The WAR nuts just lost their minds.
Jeff Kent deserves better. Scott Rolen deserves better, Heck, Lance Berkman deserves better. Carlos Delgado should still be on the ballot.
The Harold Baines induction will have saved the BBWAA from themselves. That induction got their attention.
SocraticGadfly
THe HoF actually IS tainted til an injustice is reversed and Buck O’Neil is put in.
its_happening
As a builder, right? Buck’s numbers as a player don’t hold up.
canocorn
Andrew “Rube” Foster was elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame in 1981.
Baseball can eventually see where it erred, admit it and attempt to rectify past mistakes. This too makes The Game an ideal mirror upon which to reflect our great nation, albeit imperfect.
Kevin28786
The Hall of Fame is becoming a joke. Edgar Martinez? Harold Baines? Guys who were so inept with the glove that all they could do was DH? In the meantime, Andruw Jones, one of the great glove men of all-time, doesn’t come close. If I were starting a team tomorrow, and could pick between Jones and Martinez, that’s is a no-brainer. That’s what the Hall of Fame should be about, not some guy that could only hit.
Adam6710
Thanks to this comment the Hall will be stripping Martinez and Baines of their plaques and putting Jones in. Good job!
Yankeepatriot
Well smith got in cause he could “only glove” so ….. yea
His career ops was 666 but nobody complains about him lmao
Dan Miller
I don’t think you’ve ever seen Edgar Martinez hit. He was one of the best hitters who have ever played the game. If you were talking about Ty Cobb, Ted Williams, Joe DiMaggio, Tony Gwynn, etc., you might have a point. But Andruw Jones? LOL! And the only reason Martinez was a DH is because it was an option. If it weren’t an option he’d be playing on a team tucked away at first base or the small part of the outfield like all of the other non fielders are. He’d still have put up the same ridiculous numbers offensively. Edgar Martinez HAD to get into the HOF, or it’s not the HOF.
baseballhobo
Is Halladay’s momma reading his induction speech?
melj
My only question: why Halladay?
Because he died tragically somehow up his value?
But . . . that is what the HOF is for, and he is in.
STLBaseballFanSince2020
Halladay was 203-105 with a 3.38 ERA with a short but strong postseason resume. Spent the majority of his career in the AL.
Big game pitcher and a good representative during his time in the sport. He is without a doubt worthy of the Hall imo.
Not to mention pretty much every full season he pitched he was a Cy Young finalist.
Why NOT Halladay? Sure he may have garnered more consideration since he passed away tragically, but don’t pretend like he’s just some sad story..
KD17
This comment is for all the sports writers who vote against the steroid players. If you believe anyone who cheated shouldn’t be in the HOF, you are too late. Probably a good majority of the players in the HOF did what they could to have an advantage so morality is a weak argument for inclusion.
PED means performance enhancing so now we need to determine if there was an advantage in using steroids and we need to document how a steroid pitcher did against a steroid hitter, likewise one on PEDs (hitter or pitcher) going against someone not on it and last did non steroid users versus non steroid users remain constant. We have no evidence of any of these match-ups so we can NOT measure the impact that way. So then lets evaluate whether more home runs were hit.
HRs/GAME normalize the difference between eras in games played and number of teams in the league so lets use that number and see if over time HRs/Game behaved differently during the alleged steroid era and other eras. I gathered all the data on HRs per Game since 1871 through 2017 and found that the average change in HRs / Game by year fluctuated up and down but never climbed during any era. Then I took the raw data and plotted the upward trend in HRs/Game since 1871 and found a huge jump in the early 20s which could be accounted for by the live ball era, a huge jump in the 50s which I thought could have been an impact of post WWII players available but then I realized guys like Ted Willams went to the Korean War so that seemed less valid. This means that for whatever reason there was the single biggest jump in HRs/Game in the 50s, the time when Aaron, Mays and others who passed Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig’s records from the 20s/30s played. There is no single reason for the jump but clearly something changed. My guess is the influx of non-white players accounts for the change. After the 50s the HRs/Game fluctuated year to year with some years significantly higher but usually the following year the number fell. The 1990s followed the same pattern as the 80s and 70s. A couple of peak years and a couple of low years. Since 2000 and the new implementation of steroid punishments the numbers still haven’t changed except in the last two years. We have seen the single greatest spike in the number during 2017.
So, who cares about all this? I do because it negates all those people saying the steroid era affected the number of home runs hit. The data shows that there was no shift in the pattern of HRS/Game. Not before 1990 and not after 2000. So why does the public believe the number of home runs jumped? In fact, why did Senators get involved in regulating baseball and it’s use of steroids if there was no impact on HRs/Game? It’s simple. There was a generation of baseball fans that didn’t want their heroes numbers surpassed by the Bonds/McGwire generation. That’s unfortunate because the myth of the steroid era has really hurt the reputation of baseball and the players of that era. If the number of home runs wasn’t impacted (unless for every steroid home run somebody not on steroids hit one less) then one can make the same argument that people make for the sharpened spikes players and the pitchers affecting the ball; there was no real impact to the game so did the cheating matter?
Ethically, that’s a matter for everyone to decide but lets stop talking about the steroid era as if it impacted home runs. There is NO EVIDENCE that it did as a whole. If you want to break down an individual career and try to suggest it did, good luck with that since there is no evidence as a whole so why would 1 player be impacted while the rest of the league wasn’t afforded an advantage. Did they use special steroids or better steroids? Sounds pretty silly to me to go there.
Bonds haters will always be Bonds haters but if you compare Aaron and Bonds their career were very similar. Bonds hit more home runs later but it wasn’t due to steroids. My belief is that Bonds was the greatest hitter since Ted Williams and like Ted he figured out a few things about hitting that others took years to figure out. His short swing, quick hands and launch angle allowed him to prolong his HR hitting much longer than most. He figured out what we teach young players now but he did it 20 years earlier than today’s experts. Without documentation of a growth in HRS caused by steroids this seems to be the logical answer for how he hit more late in his career than Aaron. FYI… Aaron had his late peak at 36 and Bonds had it at 37. Is that really all that different?
Let’s stop referring to the Steroid Era as the HR era because there is no proof in the numbers. Instead, it was a time when people tried to get an advantage by taking steroids but best case they added stamina and resilience to injury, that’s all!! If today, we found a safe drug that didn’t have the negative health effects of steroids shouldn’t we use it to help preserve players from injuries or is this again an issue for all those trying to compare players across eras? How about recognizing that eras aren’t comparable and let the records fall where they may. If there is a true advantage gained by taking a drug, there must be numbers to prove it. There are no steroid numbers proving more home runs. That is a myth and writers should be investigating who gained from it because it wasn’t the players. You might want to start with an owner turned commissioner who gained the most from it.
its_happening
The writers know. They’re part of the cover up. No incentive for them to investigate what they already know. They also played up all the records they wanted to see broken and hyped it to generate more interest in the game. They were and still are part of the problem.
Dan Miller
LOL, do you really think steroids had nothing to do with Bonds slamming HR after HR when he was almost 40? You think he figured out something that it others “years to figure out”? It sounds like HE took years to figure it out, slim. And here’s what he figured out: he can get a lot of HRs out of a syringe.