8:30pm: Murray and his camp haven’t made any salary demands in talks with the Athletics, Slusser reports (Twitter link).
5:35pm: Kyler Murray has until tomorrow to declare his eligibility for the NFL Draft, and a contingent from the A’s front office (including Billy Beane and David Forst) is meeting with the two-sport star and his camp today to try and convince him to remain in the Athletics’ farm system rather than pursue a pro football career. The situation could result in a unique resolution between the two sides and the league itself, as ESPN.com’s Jeff Passan is reporting (Twitter links) that if the A’s and Murray can agree to a Major League contract that would guarantee Murray more money for sticking with baseball, Major League Baseball wouldn’t object.
As Passan explains in follow-up tweets, league rules prevent a team from signing a drafted player to an MLB contract straight out of the draft. In Murray’s case, he has already signed a minor league deal last summer, which included a $4.6MM bonus as the ninth overall selection in the 2018 draft. Since Murray is already technically under contract, no league rules would be broken if Oakland was to sign him to a Major League contract now and add him to its 40-man roster. As Bill Shaikin of the L.A. Times notes (Twitter link), Major League Baseball wouldn’t believe that Murray and the A’s were in violation of the draft pool system with this new contract unless the league felt such a handshake agreement for more money was made last summer, before Murray was originally signed.
The eye-popping news comes in the wake of reports from earlier today from WFAA’s Mike Leslie, who heard from a source that Murray wanted $15MM in new money to forego the NFL for the Athletics. While Susan Slusser of the San Francisco Chronicle hears that the $15MM figure is “too high,” she notes that the A’s and Murray’s representatives from the Boras Corporation “are working on trying something creative to accommodate” a new agreement.
Since being drafted by the A’s last summer, Murray’s star has risen following a season that saw the quarterback win the Heisman Trophy and lead Oklahoma to a slot in the College Football Playoff. Slusser and Henry Schulman of the Chronicle reported earlier this week that Murray was now leaning towards declaring for the NFL Draft, as he’d gain more money beyond $4.66MM (which would be given back to the A’s) as a potential first-round pick, and Murray could potentially be on an NFL field as soon as September, rather than facing at least a few seasons in the minors before cracking the Athletics’ Major League roster.
Perhaps with a nod to Murray’s higher profile, Major League Baseball sent some marketing executives to today’s meeting between Murray and the A’s front office, MLB.com’s Jon Paul Morosi reports. As Passan put it, the league’s willingness to permit a Major League contract this early in Murray’s pro baseball career is indicative of how “special a situation” MLB considers Murray’s case to be, as “Murray in MLB would be a coup.”
It stands to reason that other teams could raise objections to a new Murray contract, though the circumstances are unique enough that it isn’t likely to lead to a future flurry of teams trying to find loopholes around the draft pool system. One rival general manager tells The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal that “Everyone knows this isn’t circumvention….I actually hope the A’s can get it done. It would be good for the game for Murray to play baseball.”
The other interesting wrinkle about a new contract is that it would tweak Murray’s timeline to the majors. If Murray is placed on the 40-man roster, 2019 would become his first option year, so he’d be out of options following the 2022 season. That leaves the A’s with less time to access Murray’s prospect potential, though the club clearly sees that as a preferred scenario to losing Murray (and wasting a first-round pick) entirely should he opt for the NFL.
first
Boo
First what?
First to comment just means hey I have zero life so I look for brand new articles to comment on mlb trade rumors.
just do both. it’s entertainment after all he might as well build his brand make as much money as he can
I would like to see it. But I think any NFL team who takes Murray isn’t going to like their future star QB playing another sport that opens him up to more possible injury
I think you got that backwards. I don’t think the A’s would like their future star playing another sport that guarantees injuries and concussions.
We’ve seen guys play both sports. wr havent seen a QB do it. I think if anyone had a problem, itd be the sport where he played the more valuable position…
It worked for Deion Sanders. I clearly remember him playing both sports and quite well at both.
Very true. Hard to imagine any team from either league with a lot of money invested opening a player up to more injuries these days
Sanders wasn’t a very good baseball player and he only played partial seasons. And both sports are just harder now; they require a full-time commitment. Especially NFL quarterbacks.
You’re memory must not be clear-he was not a good mlb player. Decent value because of speed, but definitely not good.
Maybe you meant Bo? Deion was not a good baseball player.
Look at Sanders 3b for career, he was not great but definitely pretty good
.263 career average, didnxt strike out much,
never walked, no power, not a good outfielder despite the speed.
Not possible… you can’t miss camp as a QB… RB or DB is one thing, QB is just not gonna happen
Go play football dude.
Yup. Go play football so when you are 40 you are stupid and suicidal from the concussions. At least your family will have that initial $9.4 million rookie contract you signed. To pay for your medical care as you age. Good call.
Yeah cause every football playets is suicidal by the time they are 40. Hell qbs in the nfl arent allowed to be touched anymore let alone blown up.
QBs get hit more in one season than even in today’s football than baseball players get hit in the head their whole career.
He needs to go to nfl
he needs to make the best decision for himself and not listen or pay any attention to the simpletons on the internet who think they know what the best decision for him is.
Rumor has it he’s asking for 15 million
Its a 5/10 extension from Oakland that he’s asking for.
There really is no comp for this, which will make his price tag all the more fascinating
He is too small to be a successful NFL QB.
They said that about Russell Wilson too. Don’t get me wrong, I think he should stick with MLB simply for the relative safety and longer average career, but size isn’t everything at QB. There have been LOTS of 6’5″ flops and several shorter successful QBs.
As far as MLB goes, I am reminded of Josh Booty. A top 5 MLB pick that tried to go play QB as well. It’s one thing for .220 hitting in Low A Russell Wilson to try, but this guy is a good prospect whose MLB org has shown the willingness to invest in him. He’d be a fool to go to the NFL.
Russell Wilson is 3 inches taller than Murray, please stop comping them they’re completely different players.
Strike Four. Wilson and Murray are both 5 foot 11 inches and both play similar.
Murray might be the same height as Wilson, but he also weighs about 20 LBs less. Russell Wilson is the success story for small QBs, but Murray could also wind up like RG III.
Murray is NOT 5’11”… dude isn’t taller than me and I’m 5’9”
brees anyone?
qbert1996 Murray is closer to 5’8″ than his widely-reported height of 5’9″ – you are lying why?
Also Russel Wilson is extremely thick in the upper legs and has an nfl body he is just shorter than the average QB.
Murray has a thin body and will not be able to absorb the hits of NFL linebackers for long. This kid is getting extremely bad advice. It’s one thing to follow your nfl dream as a light hitting infielder or a at best RP prospect. This kid has star qualities as a major leaguer. Possible All Star potential. Now if it’s a ploy to get more from the A’s than by all means get what you can but baseball should be his only option. He does not have an NFL body.
His profile on ESPN has him ar 5’10”.
Why are you being a butt?
He’s not 5’11”!! They say he’s between 5’9” 5’10” at best!
Take your left hand and make a “C” with your thumb and index finger. The space between the tips is larger than the height differences you all are arguing about. Get over it.
Murray isn’t 5’11” that is just his listed height. He is like 5’7”
There is nobody else that played in the college ranks this modern times and went thru the draft u should say.
there have been more hot shot HS QB’s who chose baseball over big name colleges and went to baseball.
Casey Kelly,1st team AA HS QB, Scholarship to U tenn and way back in ’09 it took over 2.5m to lure him away to baseball.
Not that rare. It happens.
With the current trend in mlb players having difficultues getting long term contracts i dont k ow how he can choose mlb. This is another potential problem mlb has, and anothe unintended consequence of the analytics age of baseball.
You don’t know how a player could choose the relative safety of baseball over football? If both offers you get are similar and even if baseball is less I’d still choose the safety over baseball. I’d look at a 50 year old journeymen in mlb and see how he’s walking and talking. I’d try to find a 50 year old nfl journeymen player and see how he’s walking and if you can understand him.
booty
He’s the same height as Brees.
Not even close.
Murray is 5’8”
Brees and Wilson are considered short, but each is -almost 6’ tall.
We’re talkign about a 3-4” difference between the 2 rare success stories, and what Murray is.
Murray is closer in size and skill set to Doug Flutie. Flutie was a far superior collegiate player, and Flutie had almost no shot whatsoever in the NFL.
Flutie had some pretty solid years as both a CFL & NFL QB.
Would you rather bet on Doug Flutie or Mookie Betts?
Actually he just dumped the ball off constantly to make his numbers seem good but he had a ton of trouble getting the ball downfield
Let him go; he’ll come back for less money when he learns he’ll have to switch to another position in the NFL.
If I was the A’s I would call his bluff he is too small for the NFL
Its not a bluff… teams are dumb enough to burn a 1st round pick on him and that’s almost double what his baseball signing bonus was
Too be fair, his height isn’t the biggest issue with him as a QB. There are a lot of limitations to his game. Height aside, I think he would be a 3rd-4th round pick which would not guarantee him more money than his current baseball deal.
Like what?
He says if the A’s offer an extension for 5 years and $10M he’s in.
They can’t offer an extension because they can’t sign him to an MLB contract. Baseball has that rule. The only way they could do that is if they immediately put him on the 40-man roster. on a major-league contract, which would start his arbitration/free-agency clock years before he’s ready to contribute.
Which means it can be done
Yes, but it would be incredibly foolish; he would reach arbitration before he was even a major league baseball player. I suppose I should have written “won’t” rather than “can’t” but it’s the same deal. There’s no way they’re putting Murray onto the major league 40-man at this stage in his development.
No Arb is service time based not contract time based you only reach it with 3 years on the 25 man not the 40. He would however potentially be out of options after 2021 so he would need to stick or be injured to not be on the 25 man after that. I mean I believe everyone on the 40 man burns an option when the 25 man is decided but I’m not positive on this it might only be players called up to the 25 man during the season then optioned?
If he’s signing a 5 year major league contract, wouldn’t that buy out 2 arbitration years?
Yes, but if he signed a major league contract after the third time they sent him to the minors he would have to clear waivers, correct? Since he would be sent to the minors for at least three seasons he would be subject to a waiver claim before he ever reached the majors, unless he is some kind of generational talent and flies through the system in a year, which seems unlikely.
Anybody on the 40-man burns an option whenever he is sent to the minors. Everyone with a major league contract is on the 40-man.
The A’s will never pay up.
shocked that billy b didn’t know better – after all he’s the architect of “money ball”
What’s Boras’ stake in all this? Would he continue to rep Murray in the NFL?
Boras doesn’t do the NFL.
Drew Rosenhaus is comparable
He has to pay Boras no matter what. Boras was hired to represent him in contract negotiations that were successful he did his job and gets paid no matter what.
I’m sure Boras isn’t concerned about the money he’d personally make off representing Murray in the immediate, but to lose him as a client for the next decade would be a loss. Much like the appeal he has for MLB, Boras would also profit off him.
The problem with signing him to an MLB deal is that he will have to go on their 40-man roster and his option years will be used up while he’s in the lower minors, not to mention that he’ll be taking up a spot that could go to someone that’s actually MLB ready.
That I think is a big concern. I am not too familiar with the A’s farm system but I imagine the prospects they have on the 40 man now some teams would swoop up if removed for Murray
I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that the only way option years are used up is if you were indeed called up to the show and then optioned back to the minors
Not when you are on a major league contract playing in the minors.
Correct. If you aren’t on the 25-man at the end of spring training, you’d be optioned back to the minors.
Everyone on the 40 who isn’t on the 25-man
Call the bluff
Exactly!! Go NFL… you want the right or left? Watt or Clowney? I am an Astros fan, I don’t want this guy to use his small size to get an advantage (small strike zone)… go play in the NFL and get your ass beat…. hope he goes to the Bills, they need a QB
Josh Allen says hello
An Astros fan should be the last person to complain about players with small strike zones. The only guy with a much smaller one than Altuve was Eddie Gaedel!
Kid is showing poor character.
How? The A’s knew the risks and that he could go to the NFL, their original agreement didn’t make that not so. And he will get more money and get to play immediately (or at least be on a team immediately) by going to the NFL. So it’s understandable that he would want a sweetener to go with MLB. Both the NFL and MLB are businesses that are happy to exploit the players for their own gain. It is ridiculous to expect players to not get the money that they can, try not to weep too much for the billionaire owners that have to pay them.
I think it’s smart of MLB to allow this in order to bring in more potential talent to their league
Poor character for getting a chance at life changing money?
He already got 4.6M with the chance to earn far more. What is your measure of life changing money? Oak did not think this was a possibility after they signed a contract with him specifically allowing him to play one fall of college football and no more. Nobody is publicly commenting from the team or either league about how its illegal to entice a person to break an existing contract, which is what any signing NFL team would be doing, but you better believe MLB, A’s, and NFL lawyers are talking right now. Oakland has the potential to make this hurt bad for all parties if they want to and he leaves. They can if they so choose sue everyone involved in representing him who advises him to break the law, and anyone party to him leaving, they may even be able to sue him for like 10MM for the loss of draft pick next year since he signed then backed out. Murray could owe OAK everything he makes in the NFL for a while in damages on top of what the signing team would owe. I guess this is Oaklands backasswards way of raising payroll!
Mr. Madison, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Im sorry for paying attention to the little details in legal matters. My bad for reiterating the main take away from a lawyer writing for fangraphs, one of the most well respected news sources in baseball. There is a lot of grey area here, but most of the known information points to Oak having very good grounds to sue should he sign with an NFL team, unless they specifically stipulated he would be allowed to.
Other sports 5.(b) uniform player contract. The Player and the club recognize and agree that the Player’s participation in certain other sports may impair or destroy his ability and skill as a baseball player. Accordingly, the player agrees that, except with the written consent of the club, he will not engage in skiing, auto racing, motorcycle racing, sky diving, or in any game or exibition of football, soccer, professional league basketball, ice hockey or other sports involving substantial risk of personal injury.
Pretty iron clad right there contract says no football, unless team gives written permission playing football violates section 5.(b) and he is in breach of contract, and the football team is liable for enticing that breach!
Sheryl Ring Fangraphs:
“But there’s one last wrinkle here – one that is less concerned with Murray and more with the NFL teams itching at the chance to draft him. It’s now public knowledge that Murray has a legally binding contract with the A’s that expressly prohibits him from playing professional football. We’ve talked before about the law that prohibits a third party from inducing a party to a contract into breaching that contract. That’s called “tortious interference with contract” or “tortious interference with prospective economic advantage.” (They’re technically different causes of action, but they’re close enough for our purposes that we can consider them together.) In other words, if, for instance, the Oakland Raiders (we’ll assume a bit of geographic serendipity here) were to draft Murray, and then, knowing that the A’s have a binding contract with him, offered him a contract anyway, and Murray were to accept the Raiders’ offer, it can be reasonably argued that the Raiders induced Murray to breach his contract based on that offer.
Now, California law contains some subtle differences from the national majority tortious interference rules. Still, the essence remains. As the California Supreme Court explained in Applied Equipment Corp. v. Litton Saudi Arabia Ltd., “[California] law imposes the obligation that every person is bound without contract to abstain from injuring the person or property of another, or infringing upon any of his rights. This duty is independent of the contract.”
The California Supreme Court explained in another case, Reeves v. Hanlon, that, “in California, the law is settled that a stranger to a contract may be liable in tort for intentionally interfering with the performance of the contract.” And Reeves is notable for its holding that, in California, a party may sue for tortious interference with an employment relationship: “it is firmly established in California that intentionally interfering with an at-will contractual relation is actionable in tort, and we perceive no legal, logical, or policy basis for restricting the availability of this tort to employees.” To me, at least, there seems to be sound footing for the A’s to file a legal action against an NFL team that successfully recruits Murray into signing a professional football contract that breaches his pre-existing contract with the A’s.
Now, that doesn’t mean that such an action would occur. Calculating damages, in particular, would be an immense undertaking, as the A’s would have to establish a dollar value for the lost services Murray would have provided (though damages would be a lot easier if Murray kept some or all of his signing bonus). There’s also the question of which state’s laws would apply; California would probably be most likely given it’s the Athletics’ home state, but it may be another state’s law for reasons too complex to explore here. At the same time, I can’t imagine that either MLB or the NFL would want the public relations headache that would occur from two franchises entering into litigation with each other. And Murray has the most to lose of anyone: would the A’s, or an NFL team, consider Murray worth suing over? Depending on what happens, it’s possible he gambles on the NFL and ends up signed by no one.
There are a lot of moving parts in this saga, and we haven’t seen the last act yet. The safest move for Kyler Murray, undoubtedly, is to play for the A’s and relish the $4.66 million he now has. Of course, that would require the famously bold phenom to play it safe.”
Basically she hasnt seen the contract and is not for sure saying they can sue, but yeah thats probably what the case is.
We have no idea what his contract said. Acting like you do is irresponsible.
Well researched, CV. Contract law was my favorite class when I studied.
I never wanted to be a Lawyer, but I love the law and understanding it.
3.44 GPA, but I ended up going a different direction. My lawyer professors instilled in me a distaste for lawyers. Ironic, huh?
As a fellow professional in Law I find it funny how little people know about Law of Contracts and how him absconding from his A’s contract with the ramifications that follow. The fact the A’s have not pushed the dirt card means that they at least are not going to be the bad guys in all this.
Acting like the A’s are complete idiots and didn’t add a ton of stipulations to his contract is worse then irresponsible, it’s ignorant.
I can almost guarantee this contract he already signed has probably got the most stipulations of any drafted player in the last few decades.
Baseball contracts in general already have more stipulations and clauses then most bc their contracts are guaranteed.
Knowing that he was going to go play football even if just for 1 fall as originally agreed upon I’m certain they loaded up his comtract with clauses.
Knowing that they would lose a 1st rd pick, and the fact they already gave him $4mil+ there’s no way they didn’t protect themselves.
This contract is iron clad, and if by chance it isn’t the the As deserve what they get.
Kid is showing poor character wtf are you talking about? Good lord I just saw you posting about how free agents should be getting paid more.
He’s using his leverage. Baseball players are taught to get good marks in highscool and play great in high school and get a scholarship. That way when a Mlb team drafts you, you can use the scholarship as leverage and get the mlb to pony more money up to lure you away from college.
This situation is no different.
Why would he be a first round pick in the NFL? He is way shorter than the average NFL quarterback. He one a heisman, big deal. Lots of failed NFL quarterback won the heisman.
I think would fail in the NFL.
He is being projected as a first round pick. Lamar Jackson was the last pick of the first round last year and has over 8 million guaranteed. He could easily fail at either NFL or MLB but he is in light for quite. a bit more guaranteed money at this point if he goes with football (barring additional money from Oakland as is mentioned here). It is understandable that he would be thinking long and hard about this
Play baseball. He doesnt have the size for the NFL. Sure he can prove me wrong but Heisman doesnt always translate into the NFL. cough cough Tim Tebow.
Stop posting here. With your skills you’ll only be successful on twitter. Your skills don’t translate well here on these forums.
See how stupid it sounded for me to dictate to you what you sure do? Maybe not maybe you’ll listen.
I think Murray is the next Mookie Betts (same height/athleticism). He’s doing the world a disservice by even thinking about the NFL – although this seems to be Boras “get more money” tactics, not often a player like Murray comes along, Boras is probably using the NFL as leverage right now.
He’d be doing himself a disservice by not completely evaluating all of his options. He owes “the world” absolutely nothing.
I’d usually call BS, but I tend to agree. Not sure if he would achieve the same success as Mookie, but the ceiling seems to certainly be there.
You may not be familiar with this but if you are skilled in your career and in demand, barring being in a contract that prevents you from doing so it is quite common to look at your options. If you are offered to pay more by another employer, you go to your current employer and say “they are offering me this much money and I am considering it, I want to stay here but that is a lot more money, if I do not receive a raise then I will go. ” I find this mindset where people feel employees owe something to ultra-wealthy employers so strange. This is all business, they would get rid of you if you were not helping their business
He is absolutely nothing like Mookie Betts
If he did ask the A’s for more money it shows lack of class and a poor example to the youths of America. You signed a contract honor it. You can’t renegotiate now you had a good year. If the A’s said give us back our money when he got hurt would that be fair? No
It’s not like he can take his signing bonus and run. If he chooses the NFL he loses the signing bonus. And clearly there’s something in the way contracts are set up in order for him to have a choice to leave.
Unfortunately there are players who don’t want to honor the contract they agreed to. Laveon Bell sat out a whole season for more money when he agreed to his current contract.
The Steelers put the franchise tag on Bell, but he never signed it… so it honestly can’t be said that he agreed to the contract.
That’s fair my mistake. But lots of players still hold out for new contracts while still under their current contract they already agreed to
That’s absolutely true.
The A’s by giving him the chance to play college football didn’t force him to commit. Yes he signed a contract, but obviously there’s nothing in there than forces him to focus solely on baseball after his 1 year of college football. This was a risk the A’s took. It’s great for the youths of America because it shows them that it is possible to do both and excel and have both leagues wanting your talent.
That contract does notvstipulate he stays.
He is not failing to honor a thing.
If the contract had an injury clause and he signed it, yeah, it would be fair.
The A’s agreed to and signed that xontract, too.
Stop being a jealous jerk
Pretty sure the contract states that the player is not allowed to play professional football. I would assume the contract had exact language allowing him to only play the one semester after the Sooners. I think there is something I remember for a while back where you had to wait 2 years to walk away from one sport for another. A drafted player that hasnt even played yet is a different circumstance and because no NFL team would agree to him only playing in the MLB offseason as a QB they are attempting to entice him to break his existing contract to sign a new one. This is something where the laws are different jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but since California is a state with lots of high demand high skill labor the laws are more restrictive of who is allowed to recruit an employee already under contract.
How is it being Jealous to think its wrong for Oak to lose the number 9 overall pick for nothing because he changed his mind 4 months later without having even shown them what he is as a professional? I think he made his choice, and if I am Oakland if he screws me out of a asset valued at 10M plus I am going to come after him and the team that stole him away. Oakland negotiated in good faith and if he was going to decide to play football in 2018, not 2021 after running high K numbers and a mendoza line avg or something, then yes I think he has a responsibility to honor the deal or accept the consequences if Oak comes after him for his bad faith negotiations.
I’m all for living your dream but you signed a contract last year to play minor league ball, that’s your commitment. That’s your commitment to your teammates, the team, the fans, the game, etc.
It’s pretty lame that this is even a topic. Shows what kind of person this kid is.
Sorry but I’m saying what it is.
So by your logic, every single contract signed by mlb should be guaranteed? They signed it they must pay it.
Every contract in MLB is guaranteed, except incentives. And even those are guaranteed if/when the criteria is met. But I agree with you on the idea of it all, he should be allowed to choose what he wants to do. The last thing the As want is for him to be forced to play for them and not have his whole heart in it.
Major league contracts are guaranteed, but he’ll be in the minors for several years, where salaries are often below minimum-wage – players in the low minors make as little as 1,150 dollars/month. That signing bonus is nice but a third of it is gone in taxes and such; while I think most of us could live on that much money for a lifetime, Murray would also have to spend a few years riding buses and putting in 14-hour days for almost nothing.
There is nothing that prevents him from walking.
If therec was, he wouldn’t be able to do it.
This isn’t just about the deal “making sense,” this is about perception and ability of the MLB to attract and retain top young athletes who might other chose other sports. Whether or not he pans out, this is very big deal.
This isn’t a character issue, the MLB needs to take care of business by taking care of Kyler. He’s earned it.
He hasn’t played an inning of pro ball, what exactly did he earn for the MLB?
NFL! I
Eff him go play football and get blown out in 4 games and wish you would of went to baseball instead.
Jealous much? I’m sure he knows the risks
The A’s should just call his bluff and move on. He is doing this now what will he do later? Let him go to the NFL as a later 1st round pick and get his brains beat in.
You put things into a contract. One of the biggest mistake people ever do, is having a verbal agreement and not putting it into a contract.
Well, if they put a clause in his contract, he wont do it
Sorry but no way mlb lets him sign major league deal. Total circumvention of rules.
Not entirely. Precedence is there for signing pre-arb players to extensions. This would fall in line with that.
Or players without MLB service time at all to extensions, like Jon Singleton
Yeah that’s exactly who came to mind when I was posting.
But Singleton was already in the system; MLB rules expressly forbid signing draft picks to a MLB contract.
Murray is in the system too, you should try reading an article before you comment on it
He hasn’t reported yet, so he has not played yet, and his contract has already been signed, and it’s not an MLB contract.
He’s still in the system, which is why the As control his rights.
try reading the article again
Unless MLB feels the A’s planned this all along it’s within the rules. You can’t sign a draft pick to major league deal. He has already signed a contract this essentially would be an extension
Did you read the article?
Clearly he did not.
So this 21 year-old kid was supposed to know exactly what he wanted to do six months ago, before his life changed in a major way, and he can’t change his mind now? I think he should stay with the A’s, and I hope they find a way a way to retain him. But I can understand how he might be conflicted with NFL teams telling him how much they want him, and how much money he can make. Give the guy some slack and let him make up his own mind.. It’s his life. Every team in every sport will try and get players as cheaply as possible. There’s nothing wrong with him getting as much money as he can
Another Athletics draft pick destined to be a bust.
Just like that terrible player Matt Chapman, huh? Matt Olson also is really bad.
He talks like not all teams have bust draft picks, but lets just think about this.
On top of any list of A’s drafts you have to put a franchise name like Ricky Henderson who was part of a dynasty and one of Baseball’s greats, and there is a very big list of other players that are really good.
It’s so bizarre how many posts in this thread are acting like this is a yes or no decision – even if he picks NFL and after 2 years decides to go to baseball, the A’s will still have his rights. There’s nothing really to argue or make judgement calls on his character.
This is exactly why they should say “go try the NFL if you want”
I’m not exactly sure how it would all work, but I’m assuming they would get all their money back, lose the pick, but keep his rights for 4 years.
It’s almost a guarantee he’s back to baseball in 3 years. No way he goes in the 1st rd of NFL draft, so he’s probably getting cut in 2-3 years.
Sure it may stunt his potential growth as a baseball player, but the As would be getting a 1st rd talent for peanuts(minus the pick it cost them)
He signed a legally binding contract that does not allow for him to play both sports. Oak was willing to let him play a finite number of football games before quitting. Reneging or trying to leverage an illegal non existent contract for more money does show bad character.
If you sign a deal and cash the checks you honor your agreement even if you have a change in circumstances after. If he was a stand up guy and really wanted to bet on himself and keep both options open, then he should have said no to the deal and not closed the other door.
If he picks football, he gives the bonus back. There is nothing preventing him from leaving.
Yes the contract was already signed. California law states that it is illegal to entice someone to break an existing contract. He would also by backing out cost OAK a first round pick which has real value and can be certified as damages. Go read a piece from like a month ago on fangraphs that specifically asses the legal ramifications of this.
CONTRACTS DONT HAVE BACKSIEE CLAUSES THERE ARE LEGAL RAMIFICATIONS TO BREAKING THEM!
Picking footbal, after already picking signing and being paid for baseball is the problem. He picked baseball in July now he has to live with that choice and the millions of dollars it has already earned him!
Yeah this is just not right. You are not required to play baseball against your will if you sign — you just have to give back your bonus if you retire and if you ever want to play again the team still controls your rights.
He absolutely could retire to become an accountant. If he ever wanted to return to being a professional athlete OAK has his rights. Signing a competing contract with another professional sports team, that is in a sport he is banned from playing according to the existing language in his contract.
Look at it this way. If Google wants to steal all of Teslas top design engineers who are under contract Google will get in serious legal trouble if they entice Tesla’s employees to break there contract. It is like a non-compete clause whereby he is free to quit baseball, and having not fulfilled his contract at all Oak could probably recoup some of the bonus. If he however moves to a different competing “company”, then he has violated the terms of his contract, and the NFL/Signing team has violated CA contract law.
He must Quit professional sports to not have violated the terms of his agreement, I’m pretty sure, and he would probably owe money back for signing and leaving without cause like an injury, since you dont get paid if you never show up for the job you were hired for. This could get sticky because we havent seen cases related to athletes similar to this that i recall, but a lot of it is just applying existing case law from other related contract law type disputes.
You, uh, got that ” existing contract language” handy? I would love to see it.
We know what the standard player agreement is look it up and read the parts about not playing dangerous sports they specify hockey football and several others. We dont for instance know for sure that OAK didnt give him an out in his deal, but I doubt it. Just google MLB uniform player contract and read it, you will learn all about what restrictions are placed on professional athletes.
The signing NFL team is a competing company in the same industry of professional sports. Enticing him to break an existing contract in order to sign him to similar contract for a different company competing in the same industry is illegal. One professional sports team would be trying to poach a contracted player from another, and playing football violates the language of the existing contract since it is part of the uniform player agreement and I guarantee OAK specified him only being allowed to compete in this specific semester with that specific team in the deal.
Do you REALLY think that if this were the case, the NFL would not know that??
Pretty sure they do. He has not been drafted yet if you recall, and without the A’s tacit approval you might just see him grabbed late where they just try to secure his rights in case he flames out in baseball. We havent heard a peep out of the NFL or any teams talking about him, could this be why? He might need to work things out with OAK before they are willing to let him come. He might not know what the NFL’s internal legal thinking is on the matter himself.
You can’t play those sports *while you are a baseball player*. Baseball and football are not the same industry. Russell Wilson signed with the Rockies out of the 2010 draft then retired to play football when the Seahawks drafted him in 2012. Under your logic this is not possible Just take the L dude.
Didnt he play several seasons where he didnt produce very well? Also some players have been allowed to do both in the contract they signed, where they were taken fairly low usually and had specific contract language that stipulated how it would work. I believe that all the things about those players playing two sports was ironed out before they signed the deals, whereas Murray had to think he was taking the better offer off of where he was projecting for the NFL draft as of last summer. Its all about what the contract says, but since the contract specifically stated he could play the one semester, it stands to reason a good lawyer would also stipulate that it was over after that from a two sport perspective. None of us know the actual language of what is in this, but based on the things I have read including pieces authored by lawyers with knowledge of these areas, I am fairly confidant that my assertions pertaining to the contract language are different. Saying that working for Apple on OSX or Tesla on the computer for the car arnt the same job, but also they are if your in the same position as a coder for both. You cant poach contract employees in CA, and the Job he is being paid for is professional athlete, and you could easily make the case that the skills with which he derives his value are applicable for both employers. This isnt just some dude that works at safeway who can quit to take a better job. It is hard to legally hire an employee who is still under contract somewhere else.
THANK YOU!
If he leaves for the NFL he must return the bonus from OAK, still pay Boras for the contract he signed, and potentially be liable for damages to OAK for breaking the contract since if he had said no to the offer they would have been entitled to compensation next year with the 10th pick, so they could potentially hold him liable for the loss of pick value whatever that is. On top of that contract law in California states that if OAK wants to they can sue an NFL team for signing him because it is illegal in California to entice the party of a contract to break it like he would be by signing an NFL deal, this could also potentially put the NFL under litigation as well since they would have to approve the deal. If Im Oakland I tell him his time to choose was six months ago just because he is in a different position because the A’s were generous enough to let him play doesnt change the fact he already made his choice signed his name got paid and needs to act like an adult who understands there are no backsies since people dont sign 4.6M dollar contracts with children. If I’m Oak I tell him what you got is what you get no show and were coming for you the NFL your advisors the team that signs you and anything else. MLB will probably push the hard line on this since they dont want to set a precedent for it to be acceptable for players to walk out on signed contracts whenever they feel like it!
my head hurts, you are wrong on so.many levels
I have the very odd feeling that you’re not as good a lawyer as Murray and/or the NFL can afford…
Not a lawyer just read articles by them that were about this subject. So I mean if the NFL wants to pay me to negotiate contracts at anything close to the going rate I’m down. I am just basing this on my own research into this subject going back several months now where I have been following it!
You understand, CV, that if he decides not to play MLB baseball he is, essentially, retiring from baseball and giving back his signing bonus. Players do that all the time; usually 50th-round draft picks who just decide they’d rather work in an office or something, and then return their 5000 dollar signing bonus because they realize the minors only pay like 9000 dollars/year. It rarely happens with top draft picks, but a contract isn’t binding if the player retires, which is essentially what Murray will be doing. The A’s can’t somehow force him to play baseball. That’s absurd. And there’s no NFL team “enticing” him with a contract. He hasn’t been drafted yet, let alone offered a contract.
Assuming he is capable of playing either sport at the highest level, his choice is simple, he should do what he enjoys more. He’s going to wind up a wealthy man either route he chooses.
Choice was last spring on declaring for the MLB draft or waiting for the NFL. The short backup QB choose MLB and signed a legally binding contract. He then won a Hiessman so he is trying to renege on his existing contract so he can maybe get more. Its childish behavior. Kid hasnt played a single game for his 4.6M because the team was willing to make concessions to get it done, but now he wants more, even though he already signed a deal.
You don’t “declare” for the MLB draft. You are eligible. Any person in America that has graduated highschool or spend 2 years in college within the last 5 years is eligible.
Teams come a calling and unofficial answers are given as to if they are at all interested. He could have just said no to OAK offer, and told them to try again next year if the NFL didnt come calling this.
Tell him to go for it. Don’t forget to mention that he has to return the bonus plus interest
Why can’t he play both and get paid to do so?
QB cant miss the time that other positions can. Bo Jackson showed up like week 6 usually after the MLB season ended and just slotted straight in no training camp no nothing. QB cant do that, and both teams would rightly be concerned about him being hurt in the other league. MLB standard player contracts include language banning all MLB players from doing certain “dangerous sports”. Bumgardner was violating this clause when he blew his shoulder out two years ago quading in Col. but SF let it slide and didnt attempt to recoup the salary from the period he was injured for.
This is a slippery slope that is going to get out of hand. It’s kind of a form of blackmail, if he indeed is insisting on the ML deal with more money. It’ll be interesting how this plays out.
On a side note, i kind of hope he does declare for the NFL, for one reason alone. He’ll have to go through at least the “measurement stage” of the combine and we can finally end the debate about his height. I think he’ll measure out at 5’8″, but we’ll see.
what time does he need to declare by
The situation is similar to that of Drew Henson, who the Yankees bought away from football for 6/17 back in 2001, with the difference I guess being that Henson was almost three years past being drafted while Murray is less than one. Seems pretty clear there was no handshake agreement with the A’s though, so I don’t know why the Henson precedent wouldn’t prevail.
For your long term health, pick Baseball. When you get older… All those hits finally start hurting.
I’d just let him walk if he doesn’t want to stick to the original contract. Once they give him special treatment it’s going to create animosity among other players. Let the kid go to the NFL and get his brains beat out. 15 million is too much for a guy who’s never played an inning of professional baseball.
you just don’t have the scouting capability of the a’s. none of us do. let the professionals decide.
If you want to win baseball games it’s a good idea to draft baseball players.
There was no better two sport superstar than Bo Jackson. Of course it was football that ended his career, but we still talk about him to this day because he played two sports. It is an incredible novelty. If you can do it…Go for it!
Bo arrived mid season in the NFL after the MLB season ended QB cant do that its like June/July on, full time no breaks.
Had he stuck with just baseball, there’s a very good chance he’d be in the HoF and we’d still be talking about him.
Wasnt his best year in MLB the year after he had been hurt and not played in the NFL?
The A’s literally paid millions and millions of dollars to Billy Butler and Jim Johnson to NOT play for them. Pay the kid his money and you’ll get your value back in marketing alone.
Waste of time. He’s too short to succeed in the NFL at QB.
Let the fool go.
Another Borat overreach…..
Boras doesnt rep NFL players he would not rep him for NFL stuff. If anything Boras is just trying to use this like everything he can, to leverage more money out of the A’s, if he gets the A’s to pay up he gets another commission on the new money. If Murray goes NFL he gets paid his % for the MLB deal since it was signed in good faith and his job on that deal is already complete, but he wont see a dime from an NFL team and Murray will seek NFL representation elsewhere.
Recently, Hutchinson & Henson both had similar MLB/QB options. MLB didn’t pan out for either and they tried their hand at the NFL several years later. Even if Murray selects baseball he has a long way to go before ever becoming a MLB player..and he might never make it. IMO, if he doesn’t choose baseball now it is unlikely he ever develops into a MLB player if he revisits baseball a few years down the line. The moment he is drafted he is likely viewed a teams franchise QB. It seems pretty clear that Murray wants to play in the NFL. Murray is going to opt for the sure thing and pick the NFL. Maybe we see him in the minor leagues in 2023.
Except most ppl r saying he never makes it as starting qb bc of size
Course they haven’t made any monetary demands. They don’t have the right to. The time to do that was after he was drafted but before he signed.
Wrong. Mlb has rules against that. U cant get a big league contract or be added to 40 man roster out of draft.
If you have to give him money (in addition to his already huge signing bonus) to convince him to play baseball, you should just let him play football instead. it seems obvious that he has a greater passion for football, even if it seems possibly driven by a higher earning potential in the NFL
I’ve seen a few people mention that the NFL has a higher earning potential….
How does that make sense. At all???
Brady – All time great. Total earning – just over 200 million. 41 years old.
Manning – All time great. made 248 million in his 18 year career.
Trout. All time great. total earning – 144.5 million after 2020, when he’s a free agent at the age of 30 and looking at another 400-500 million.
Harper (300+ million next contract), Machado (250-300 mill in his next contract), Miguel Cabrera (409 million), Arod (480 million)
MLB is the higher earning potential. Period.
Dude could be a good non hall of famer (say Lorenzo Cain) and make over 100 mil in his MLB career. Non HOF QB? 30 to 40 or so? 60 to 75 on the high end?
you are only comparing top players from each league. most qb’s don’t play that long. but say in 5 year comparison most nfl players would make much more compared to mostly minor leaguers still trying to break into mlb around that time.
Sooooo stick to baseball, play longer, make more money?
They r referring to 1st few years. In baseball he gets 4 million bonus then 50k ish for years in minors. Then when he makes majors 500k for 3 yrs then 3 yrs of moderate raises in arb. So 8-10 yrs before he gets big money, wheres in nfl hell be making millions from get go
First few years? If I’m a highly sought after prospect, I’m looking far down the line. Maybe that’s just me. Either way it’s life changing money. But if you want to make the most money over 10 to 20 years, you pick baseball.
I agree with u there. Esp in when in football ur gonna take physical beating and only play 10-12 yrs. And baseball ull be making more money in 7-8 yrs and play 15-20 yrs. But kids r stupid dont think of long term future and instead want instant gratification
First of all, you compared guys drafted in the late 90’s/early 00’s to guys drafted in the late 00’s/early 10’s. So there’s 10 years of sports contract inflation there. Better comparisons would be Albert Pujols and CC Sabathia, who, as 38 year-olds themselves have made $257M and $252M respectively, exactly in line with those other guys.
Second, no one is saying the NFL has a higher earning potential overall, but that in the first 5 years, is about guaranteed to earn you more money than the first 5 of baseball, especially if you are a first rounder. As prices always tell a story, there is a reason why. The peak time for an NFL player is a couple of years out of college. The peak time for a baseball player is about 10 years out of college. So NFL teams have to commit earlier and commit more money if they want to catch a guy at his peak. Baseball is a harder game to play at the major league level after playing it at the amateur level, plus with the delay to a player’s prime means that MLB players don’t have that earning potential right out of the gate because they have to traverse a much longer and more treacherous development path.
Thirdly, you took a concrete example of someone that just signed an extension and then compared it to nothing. It was just you throwing out numbers. You want a good comp? Try Joe Flacco, Nobody thinks he’s going to the hall (I hope not) and yet he was a good player on a good team that won a championship. He has made $148M.
I was just throwing out contracts really. Never seen one in the NFL that went over 200 million and was fully guaranteed.
That fact is baseball has the higher earning potential. If you believe in your ability to make it, you take it. Unless your heart is in football, which I’m assuming is the case with Murray.
Is there anything stopping him from taking that big NFL rookie contract, flaming out, snd then picking up baseball again? Lets say he play pro football 3 years. Hed be 25 or so? Plenty of time to go through the minors and make the bigs.
After taking a beating in the NFL for 3 years, that would be a “hard” 25. He probably wouldn’t be working on his baseball skills during that time as well. Unless some team wants a 30yo rookie whose bones make funny noises as he walks up to the dish… Wait a second, there is this guy named Tebow who is getting an invite to spring training. Never mind.
There is no salary cap in baseball! Play baseball if you want to make max money
He likes baseball…He loves football. I know he is short…But man he is mobile, an excellent passer and can run like the wind. He may be a much better NFL QB than people think. The combine would shoot his stock up to a top pick!
You can’t be a one trick pony in the NFL, you have to be able to stay in the pocket. Even the few successful scramblers have had painful injuries and they are bigger and stronger than this guy. Doug Flutie was the best small QB I ever saw in my life, and he struggled to make it in the NFL. He must really love football or be getting some bad advice, because baseball is the way to go if you want to stay healthy and still get rich from playing a game. Hell, who wouldn’t want this choice?
Russell Wilson would disagree with you.
Really bad advice- he is far too slight to take the beating he will receive.
If you think Doug Flutie was the best small quarterback you have seen in your life you must not have Russell Wilson who is way better then Flutie.