The Cardinals are among the many teams pressing the Giants with interest in southpaw Will Smith, according to Mark Saxon of The Athletic (Twitter link). Another San Francisco lefty, Tony Watson, appears to be of secondary interest to the Cards, Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch tweets. Goold notes that the St. Louis club is interested in swapping slugger Jose Martinez for a lefty reliever, though it’s fair to wonder whether he’d be of much interest to the Giants.
More on the pitching market:
- There’s at least some preliminary interest from the Reds in southpaw Wade Miley, per MLB.com’s Jon Morosi (Twitter link). Given the Cincinnati organization’s need for significant rotation help, and its recent hiring of former Brewers pitching coach Derek Johnson, it’s not particularly surprising to hear of this link. It’ll be interesting to see what kind of deal the 32-year-old Miley is ultimately able to secure after an odd 2018 campaign in which he worked through injury to compile 80 2/3 innings of 2.57 ERA ball. He managed only 5.6 K/9 and 3.0 BB/9 on the year, though did sport a healthy 52.8% groundball rate while allowing a stingy (but perhaps not sustainable) 0.33 homers per nine.
- Pitching appears to be a key focus of the Blue Jays this winter, with the club occupying a potentially interesting place in the market. Ben Nicholson-Smith of Sportsnet.ca reports that the Toronto ballclub is considering players that’d require multi-year commitments as well as bounceback types. But GM Ross Atkins emphasizes that the club won’t be “looking for free-agent pieces with the goal of trading them,” though of course future dealmaking would always be a possibility. Meanwhile, as Sportsnet’s Shi Davidi explores, Atkins evinced an increasing openness to weighing deals for existing starters Marcus Stroman and Aaron Sanchez in his most recent comments. While the team’s own valuation of the two talented-but-uncertain hurlers has surely not changed, Atkins suggests that rivals have shown sufficient interest that it’s worth further exploring trade scenarios. Whether any deal will come together isn’t clear, but it does seem evident that the Toronto club has gained clarity on the demand for these pitchers and that, as Davidi puts it, there’s at least a realistic path to trade outcomes.
- Yankees GM Brian Cashman indicated yesterday that his club is taking a look at Japanese southpaw Yusei Kikuchi, as MLB.com’s Bryan Hoch reports. The New York powerhouse is presently engaged on other players, via trade and free agency, but Cashman says that Kikuchi is “somebody that’s worthy of having conversations about potentially landing.” Having taken a long scouting look at Kikuchi already, the Yanks surely have a price point in mind. Cashman says the team will continue to stay “very active, but disciplined” in its pursuit of pitching.
- The Mariners are another clear possibility for Kikuchi, as TJ Cotterill of the Tacoma News Tribune reports. Seattle GM Jerry Dipoto made clear that the club both holds the Japanese hurler in high regard, calling him a “very good” starter, and is interested in trying to work out a deal. While they are taking a step back in the near-term, the M’s feel the 27-year-old “does fit our timeline,” per Dipoto.
- It seems there’s at least some interest around the game in Orioles righty Alex Cobb, as Roch Kubatko of MASNsports.com reports. While his early showing in Baltimore was simply brutal, Cobb did turn things around in the second half, when he held opposing hitters to a .232/.288/.377 slash and carried a 2.56 ERA in 59 2/3 innings. Of course, the $43MM still owed Cobb over the next three seasons presents quite a barrier to a deal.
mrnatewalter
If the Giants can trade Brandon Belt, Jose Martinez could be a strong fit for San Francisco.
cards81
I hope you are not meaning Martinez can play first base….Because he was not good there…but he was an ok Right fielder
mrnatewalter
He’s not really good anywhere, but you’re right, he’s better in RF than at 1B. But I can’t imagine the Giants wanting to watch him try and shag fly balls off the wall in RF.
daved
He sucks no matter where in the field you try and hide him.
gocincy
Never has a truer statement been made. Martinez is a DH. He’d be a fine one. Seems like the type of guy the Rays always seem to get.
jbigz12
Martinez’s market is very limited. If you think about the teams where he really makes sense they’re all in the AL and they have to have some desire to be competitive in the next couple years. To me, that only leaves the Rays, White Sox, and Twins. Certainly teams like the orioles,royals, and maybe even marlins could be fits but I can’t imagine they’d be willing to part with young talent at this point in time for a guy like that. I don’t think the cardinals get much of anything for the guy considering how limited the market is for that kind of player.
STLBaseballFanSince2020
He had -5 DRS in 675 innings at 1B
He had -6 DRS in 335 innings in RF.
Obviously he’s not a good fielder anywhere, but to say he’s not good at first but an ok right fielder is false. With Carpenter lobbing throws over from 3B, Martinez’ wingspan saved a lot of plays. He does have a very good arm, which comes in handy when he’s turning singles into doubles and doubles into triples.
Right field is his natural position and you can tell he knows how to play it. He just isn’t capable at this point in his career. 1B or DH are the least destructive positions for him IMO. Those, and benchwarmer.
imgman09
Not interested in trading our Lefties good ones are hard to find and not interested in a DH like Martinez
SFGiants4ever
Martinez offensive numbers are really solid especially his OBP, numbers that would be great in the SF line up, but you have to be able to play D to play at Pac Bell. He would be better suited as a DH (obviously). The Giants need a solid Bullpen, they’re starting pitching is questionable at best right now with injuries and 2nd year starters, trading Smith or Watson would be a mistake.
xabial
Kikuchi article wasn’t just about Kikuchi interest; it was about their stance on all the top FA SP. def worth a read! Couple key points:
“Keuchel appears to be a non-starter for the Yankees”
“Morton could be a fit given expected get a 2-yr deal.”
“Eovaldi proved to be too expensive for the Yankees, who weren’t willing to guarantee the right hander a fourth year.”
xabial
And the obvious:
“Talks continue with J.A. Happ, though source indicated there are some internal debates on whether it makes sense to give 36-year-old left-hander the third year.”
Great find, Jeff. Didn’t know NYY willing to go 3 yrs on Eovaldi. Spot-on summary of NYY current SP pursuit
antibelt
Xabial, go home, your comments are drunk!
elscorchot
Really, man, comments like yours are the problem on here. At least he’s talking baseball.
xabial
Die-hard fan, who follows Yanks non-stop.
Though Morton was speculation if HOU doesn’t go 1 yr QO, ghe could be had for 2 by another team, found it fascinating NYY was willing to go 3 on Eovaldi. Didnt think Yanks seriously pursued him enough to go down that road again, were willing to make multi-year
No clue what they have against Keuchel Lol
mrnatewalter
Second to last in defense at 2B last year and dead last in defense at 3B as a team.
I think they are afraid of a ground ball being hit in the general direction of one of their infielders, and Keuchel produces a lot of grounders.
jbigz12
Not surprised there is some interest in Cobb. After he got settled in he was a pretty good pitcher. About what you could expect from him. I think he’s a tradeable guy come July though we certainly won’t get much.
stan lee the manly
Get it done Mo! Will Smith would be a huge add for this club, finding a way to get lefties out would be a massive upgrade from their bullpen last year. An above average bullpen puts their 88 win team with the second worst bullpen in the league in the mid 90s for next year, Smith and another strong backend piece would go a long way to correcting the problem.
jbigz12
Smith for O’Neill? Giants desperately need someone competent playing in their OF. Cardinals could sign someone to play in a corner if they aren’t comfortable with Fowler. Well they shouldn’t be comfortable w him. Dominate lefties don’t come cheap but if I were in STL’s shoes I’d be able to stomach that loss
batty
6 years of O’Neill for 1 year of Smith isn’t a very good trade off for the Cards
J. Martinez isn’t really a very good get for the Giants in a return either, unless the Giants were to then flip him in a package for a need.
J. Martinez really belongs in the AL and his glove(s) needs to be in cold storage.
jbigz12
Martinez doesn’t work for Smith even on an AL club. I think cardinals Fans are going to be very disappointed with what they get back for him. Good hitter. Very very limited market. Realistically only about 4-5 teams could use him.
stan lee the manly
I don’t think the Cards get rid of Jose Martinez if they don’t need to. He could be the most valuable bench bat in recent history making peanuts. Plus, he hits as well as any lefty against RH pitching
jbigz12
I think you shouldn’t because the return won’t be worth giving him up. I agree w you he has the most value being on your bench. I don’t see anymore than a lotto ticket coming back
batty
NL teams can’t really afford to carry bat only players anymore. Not with the way BPs have expanded in the past decade.
baseball1600
1 year of Chapman equaled Gleyber Torres. Will Smith’s numbers last year were just as good as Chapman’s. Smith has made his case as one of the most consistent and dominating lefty bullpen pieces in the game. Smith + Aramis Garcia for O’Neil and a minor piece would seem fair.
cards81
Yea no way the cardinals give up Oneill for Smith…I’m not saying Martinez is a good trade for them but Oneill is the other end of the spectrum
jbigz12
What is the market value for a top LH reliever? Even a one year rental the cost is high. I’m not saying it has to be O’Neill but if not him who? It’s goig to be an impactful prospect. Hudson? I mean O’Neill came up with a 40% K rate last year. He has lots of potential but he’s going to have to make some adjustments with his approach because that won’t play. They could obviously just sign a David Robertson or Zach Britton instead but that’s what it’ll have to be because you can’t get Smith for nothing.
mrnatewalter
Will Smith is projected at 4.1M in arbitration this upcoming season.
Britton, or any late-inning reliever is going to cost 2-3 times that much next season, which would cut into the ability to sign other players.
O’Neill for Smith is more than fair considering Smith’s cost.
stan lee the manly
They aren’t giving up on O’Neill, he’s the entire reason they brought in Jeff Albert as their hitting coach, he’s a reduce K’s and increase OBP specialist. For one year of Smith, I would say Jedd Gyorko and PonceDeLeon.
batty
Hudson is even a bigger no than O’Neill. It’s the 1 year of control for a reliever that is hard to match up. That’s why 4 years of J. Martinez, with his obvious deficiencies on defense, is more of a level trade. Yes, O’Neill has K problems, but that is an easier fix than the defense of J. Martinez.
It’d be more likely that Adolis Garcia goes in the return than O’Neill, but even that might not be to the Cards liking.
batty
I’d rather it be Gant than Poncey.
bighiggy
I think ponce and gyorko could work for the giants. Maybe throw in alittle cash to pay down gyorkos salary
mrnatewalter
I’d rather it be Jeff Samardzija for Bader and Flaherty, but as it turns out, you actually have to give up good players to get good players.
jbigz12
Jedd Gyorko has negative value on that contract no way a team like the giants is taking his contract for one of their top assets to receive poncedeleon. That deal does not make any sense to Sf
stan lee the manly
If the Cards throw in cash, I would guess no Ponce. You would probably get Gant or a less-mlb ready pitcher. Gyorko is thrown in for the sake of shedding his 8 mil
jbigz12
Gyorko’s making 13 with a 1 mil buyout? That’s negative value.
stan lee the manly
The Padres are on the hook for 5 mil of his 13. It’s only 8 mil
mrnatewalter
Why would the Giants want Jedd Gyorko? For one, he has no place to play on the Giants, and an 8M dollar backup doesn’t make sense for a team trying to shed contracts.
Per Fangraphs, Will Smith had a higher WAR than any reliever on the free agent market (technically, he tied with Ottavino).
He’s going to cost a fraction of what guys like Ottavino or Kimbrel will cost. You aren’t getting him from the Giants for sloppy seconds.
jbigz12
I see. 9 mil makes it more palatable after the buyout but I don’t see anyway the giants take on any money if all they’re receiving is Poncedeleon. You’ve got to remember top LH relievers cost a lot even rentals.
stan lee the manly
Gyorko is not a sloppy second, if that’s your thoughts then you haven’t been paying attention to what he’s done in St. Louis. His versatility and well above average bat against left handers makes him well worth 8 mil. They have Munoz now so they don’t need another right handed utility bat
cards81
Gant is better than Ponce…so I have no idea what you guys are talking about
mrnatewalter
You’ve failed to explain why the Giants would want an $8M bench guy.
You’ve also failed to explain why an $8M bench guy and a is worth a $4M lefty closer who was better than every free agent reliever on the board in 2018.
If I’m Zaidi, to be honest, Tyler O’Neill might not be enough.
cards81
Cardinals have plenty of young outfielders and arms that should get a deal done…but no way they trade Oniell
stan lee the manly
They aren’t trading will smith if that’s the case. Maybe at the deadline. But you won’t get better by holding on to one year assets in a non-contending year, so seems like that would be a huge waste
cards81
lol Oneill not enough…
stan lee the manly
Cards81, Ponce has more time until he’s arb-eligible, so there’s more value added there. I don’t see Gant as better, I see their ceilings as pretty similar. Just my opinion though
stan lee the manly
mrnatewalter, they would want Gyorko because he can make a lot more starts than a typical utility player and still produce. His ability to step in without a serious downturn in production for any injuries is plenty valuable on any baseball team. Then you get a guy who would be a very cost effective middle of the rotation pitcher with a large amount of control. For one year of a relief pitcher.
cards81
I understand the value in contractual time…but I think Gant has more talent…Gant was actually a stop gap in the second half for us…Potato potatoe though
jbigz12
Maybe there’s a chance the Giants like Poncedeleon and another top 6-10 guy out of your org for Smith. It’s just going to cost something. O’Neill certainly didn’t have to be that guy but you don’t see deals for relievers without significant value going back. You’ve got the prospect arozarena in AAA or montero as well. My point is it’ll cost a lot more than a guy like Jose Martinez. Will Smith has a lot of value right now and he still will at the deadline if they’d hang onto him. There’s no lefty like him in FA either. Britton hasn’t been the same pitcher after his injury. Gyorko won’t go to SF unless it’s to sweeten the return. If they’re selling Smith it’s probably for a rebuild which Gyorko does nothing for.
moe 3
I like Smith for Fowler. The cards would have to pay most of his salary though
stan lee the manly
I have to say, thanks the three of you involved in this thread for an intelligent baseball debate without all of the trolling and put downs. It’s threads like this that bring me back to this site and it doesn’t happen often enough anymore.
mrnatewalter
Moe, the Cards could pay ALL of Fowler, and it’s still not enough for Will Smith.
I’ll repeat it to you: Smith is going to cost about 1/3 of what a similar closer will cost in free agency, and he was better than every FA reliever last year.
That’s 4M for a top 10 reliever. No one is getting that for cheap.
mrnatewalter
To be honest, I’m not sure the Cardinals could get Tony Watson for the cost of Gyorko + Poncedeleon.
You are seriously underestimating how valuable Will Smith is at his current contract. Even for just a year, he’s going to provide close to 2 win to his team in 2019.
And you don’t have to pay $12-15M to get those 2 wins (which, honestly, I don’t think any FA reliever gets you).
It’s going to cost more than St. Louis is comfortable with if they want Smith, and I doubt they’ll care if they lose Gyorko or Poncedeleon.
fjnovak1
Smith for Fowler….
Thats a good one. Funniest trade idea I’ve heard today.
jbigz12
Smith is going to cost. He costs the giants a top 100 prospect in bickford and another young catcher in Susac years ago. Nether of those guys panned out but nonetheless they were of considerable value. He’s obviously lost controllability since but he’s significantly boosted his stock after last seasons breakout. There’s a way the cardinals could do it without O’Neill or Hudson but it’ll be with 2 quality but slightly lesser thought of guys and perhaps a 3rd piece. They have prospects like Montero, Arozarena etc. who could certainly hold interest to the giants and they obviously have your MLB ready arms gant, Gomber, and Poncedeleon. I think the cards fans are undershooting what this is going to cost but it doesn’t have to be O’Neill.
baseball1600
Why are you adding Jedd Gyorko? He’s of no use. One of the worst trade suggestions I’ve ever seen. Cardinals will easily be outbid by the Yankees or Braves if you’re offering Gyorko and Poncedeleon
baseball1600
Only “trade scenario” where the Giants give up a lefty for Jose Martinez is if they give up Ty Blach for him. Otherwise it ain’t happening.
SFGiants4ever
So Tyler O’Neill has more pop than Austin Slater, Slater strikes out less, gets OB at a better rate, plays solid defense and is only 2 years older but still 25. Why trade one of your best relievers for someone who may not be any better than what you already have? There is no way to say for sure O’Neill’s power will translate at Pac Bell.
SFGiants4ever
Everyone keeps bringing up Smith being in his last year, please look back at trades like someone already mentioned the Chapman deal for Glyber, there have been lots of mid season trades for “loaners”.
daved
NO NL team wants Jose Martinez, Gepetto Mozeliak. Clue in you goofy bast&rd..
cards81
I didn’t now you spoke for all NL teams…Interesting
daved
I do. Common sense is all you need to understand that.
gmenfan
While he doesn’t, he’s still correct. Sorry, wishful Cards fans.
Balk
Zaidi will be in some hot water if he goes crazy and trades away Smith for Martinez. No thanks, even fans of the game can see that. It would have to be something close to O’Neil.
Balk
Kikuchi to the Giants
gmenfan
Book it.
trout27
AL teams aren’t looking for bat only players either. Most will have a three man bench. No room for bat only players.
brat922
Will Smith isn’t leaving the Giants. He is a very valuable asset-wise, a clubhouse leader for our pitchers, won the Willie Mac award and is quite popular here. Fans won’t like that and they matter to the owners.
jbigz12
If you’re rebuilding this team he doesn’t help. He’s a reliever. If the giants are going to attempt to compete again then he can stay but at some point you’re going to be the royals and have lost your best assets for nothing because you thought you could still win. You lose bum and Smith after this season if you don’t do something.
JeremyR
All the more reason for the Giants to get the highest possible value in trade from him. Which could be at the trading deadline
ksoze
Wade Miley could be a little vanilla of a signing, (if they sign him) but if the Reds do trade for Kluber I’d like the rotation. Kluber, Castillo, Miley, DeSclafani, Mahle.
Jason d r
I was talking with a coworker about Wade Miley. He would work for the reds. I would like to see keuchel, gio Gonzalez, Wade Miley, Castillo and either Harvey or desclafani. Unless the reds trade for Bauer or kluber. Scooter would do a much better job at the 2nd base than kipnis, easily and would make part of a good trade to the Indians.
sleepyfloyd
If for two seasons when it’s obvious they are not competing for the list season it doesn’t matter if he’s a bad fielder.
Do you actually think having a better fielding Belt will matter? What would be the difference? Between 4th and 3rd in the West?
Palmerpark
Who cares who plays there just dump these crap contracts and rebuild.