The Los Angeles Dodgers and Cincinnati Reds recently agreed to a seven-player trade that shook up the National League and set the rumor mill afire. In case you missed it, the deal sent the quartet of Yasiel Puig, Matt Kemp, Alex Wood, and Kyle Farmer, plus $7MM cash to the Reds in exchange for Homer Bailey and two prospects: Josiah Gray and Jeter Downs, the Reds’ 13th and 8th ranked prospects, respectively, per Fangraphs. Reactions and analysis have landed on both sides of the ledger, though any subsequent transactions stemming from the payroll and roster changes on either side will give further cause for debate down the line.
The Reds have been vocal about upgrading no matter the cost this winter, especially for pitching, and while the additions were to presumably come via increased spending in free agency, here they explore a more creative means of adding talent. Having seen enough of Homer Bailey over the years, President of Baseball Ops Dick Williams put the $28MM owed Bailey to good use in acquiring three proven major league contributors. Under different circumstances, Williams might be praised for not handcuffing the team with future payroll obligations, but given that this deal feels in part driven by Cincinnati’s inability to attract major free agents, the one-year contracts of Puig, Kemp and Wood only highlights the lack of guaranteed long-term value in the return.
The primary critique here for the Reds is that they surrendered twelve total years of control in Downs and Gray, who slot in as the Dodgers’ new #7 and #16 ranked prospects, per MLB.com. The complete absence of guaranteed future value puts a lot of pressure on the team to capitalize in 2019, a real challenge coming off a 95-loss season. Should Puig, Kemp and Wood walk at the end of the year, they will have surrendered legitimate future talent for a trio that’s not likely to pull them from the depths of the NL Central. Even if the Reds do surprise this season and leapfrog the Pirates, Cardinals, Cubs and Brewers, they still could lose this trio to free agency and be worse off for the future than they were before their acquisition.
On the other hand, attendance has waned at Great American Ballpark. Puig’s power and personality both ought to play well there and give fans something to root for. Further, if for instance, they’ve been unable to get much traction on this year’s crop of lefty free agent starters, then having a one year head start with Wood might be the best way to sign him long-term in Cincinnati. Prospects are high-risk assets, and it could be the Reds don’t believe the future value of Downs and Gray is all that high. Or, they might be banking on getting better prospect value in return at the trade deadline should the Reds fall out of contention early. There’s a lot of speculation above, but the fact is the Reds front office found a way to turn Homey Bailey into two exciting, productive players/trade chips (plus Matt Kemp).
For the Dodgers, they jettisoned 6 fWAR from their 2018 pennant winning team for $28MM in dead money and a pair of prospects. If they don’t turn around and use the cost savings in free agency, that’s a lot of talent to send away just so their billionaire owners can avoid paying the luxury tax. For all Puig’s antics, he brought real fire to the club, and in his six seasons with the team, not only did he accumulate 16.8 fWAR, but they won the NL West in each of those six seasons. As for Wood, one could argue there’s a lot of uncertainty around the lefties remaining in the Dodger rotation: Clayton Kershaw and Hyun-Jin Ryu have not been fully healthy, Rich Hill, 38, is a full decade older than Wood and Julio Urias, 22, may be ready to step into the rotation, but after missing almost all of 2018, he’s far from a sure thing. Wood has his own injury history, but he is a proven asset when healthy, which he has been of late, and he carries a career 3.29 ERA (3.36 FIP, 3.49 xFIP, 3.66 SIERA). As the adage goes, you can never have enough pitching.
On the other hand, the Dodgers added two pretty decent prospects and slipped below the tax line (for now) while dealing from areas of depth. The outfield was log-jammed anyway with Kemp and Puig. Without them, there should be enough at bats to go around for Chris Taylor, Joc Pederson, Enrique Hernandez, Andrew Toles and Cody Bellinger. Plus, top prospect Alex Verdugo, still only 22, may finally have the opportunity to shine at the big league level. As for the rotation, add Walker Buehler and Kenta Maeda to the names above and the Dodgers have enough top-of-the-line starting pitching to enter 2019 even if they decide to pocket the savings from this deal. Kemp and Puig were fun, but they were volatile on-field assets who were going to siphon at bats from the younger, higher upside outfielders (namely, Bellinger and Verdugo) already on the roster.
The elephant in the room, of course, is Bryce Harper. Heads were immediately sent spinning with the possibility of this move being a precursor to the Dodgers signing Harper in free agency, and what’s worse – that makes a lot of sense. They cleared payroll space and positional opportunity, in doing so creating the market/payroll/need fit that previously didn’t seem to exist for Harper. The White Sox and Phillies are ready to spend, but they likely can’t compete with a fully armed Los Angeles payroll. The Cubs are said to be watching, the Nationals haven’t given up on him in theory, and nobody believes the Yankees when they say they aren’t interested, which is, in-and-of-itself, a testament to how classic a suitor they really are.
This blockbuster has the makings of a touchstone moment that will, in part, define this winter’s dealings, but it’s time to see where MLBTR readers land on judging the returns. Does the flexibility this deal affords the Dodgers make them the winners? Or did the Reds take advantage of the Dodgers desire to shed some payroll and walk away with the better return? Let us know your Dodgers grade, your Reds grade, and who you think “won the deal” in this poll.
shortytallz
The Reds never win, so I’ll say DodgerDogs.
PickleRiccck
Hello, hamburger. You are incorrect. Joyous Kwanza!
MetsYankeesRedSox
Festivus for the rest of us.
paddyo furnichuh
Online comment boards and “the airing of grievances.” Maybe Larry David showed great foresight with such an analogy.
ken burkett
Well he wouldn’t be saying PRETTY PRETTY GOOD on the Dodgers behalf !!
astick
Wrong.
ldboyle
Well, in the essence of fairness, the Reds have won a World Series more recently than the Dodgers have
ken burkett
THe Dodgers should have traded for D. Santana a good power hitting outfielder and forgotten about Harper-No Long term contract produces results over the length of 10 years-Wake Up Owners Check-Miggy,Pujois etc.
Stevil
I wonder if they still might do just that. The other day I was speculating over a Santana/Stowers swap for Smith/Lux.
LA would be getting a power-hitting right fielder and a future outfielder than offers some pop, plate discipline and can play center about the time Pederson hits free agency.
Seattle would be getting a catcher who should be ripe for 2021 and a second baseman (or SS) to replace Gordon.
Seattle might have to kick in an additional prospect, but this should be feasible.
hockeyjohn
I can’t see the Dodgers trading a top 100 prospect and Smith for a lower prospect and a MLB outfielder in Santana that is not very good.
CoolKidJoeXBL
Last time I checked Bryce Harper was not an unathletic first baseman.
xSpecBx
In regards to 10 year contracts, not all are created equal. There aren’t too many examples of 10 year contracts for players as young as Harper and Machado. The only one I can think of was Arod when he signed with Texas. While the team didn’t do anything, I would argue that he lived up to or exceeded that contract. Now, I would not put Harper on the same level as Arod (regardless of your opinion of him) as Arod was a superstar when he received that contract and I would say Machado is probably closer to that in terms of production than Harper. I agree that 10 year deals to guys in their 30s is probably a bad idea, but for players in their mid 20s it might actually be a good value. Arod was arguably one of the best players when he signed with Texas for a record at the time $25M/season and now you’re talking about $30M+/season for a player. Who know what the top guys will be making 10 years from now.
swinging wood
This isn’t a big breaking news story worthy of a mobile alert, IMO. The original story? That was.
sufferforsnakes
Well, you could always turn off your mobile alerts. Many people survive without them.
Goku the Knowledgable One
Then swipe left
astick
Wrong.
EndinStealth
Wow “people” will complain about anything.
Melchez
“Wow “people” will complain about anything.”
Are you complaining about people complaining?
TheTrotsky
That was more of an observation.
titanic struggle
Hahaaa!!
EndinStealth
Thank, it was an obviously an observation.
EndinStealth
Wow that’s some terrible grammar. I meant Thank you, it was an obvious observation.
johnrealtime
I don’t mean to complain but I do agree with Antone. I love the mobile alerts but which stories are chosen seems strange sometimes. I definitely want to know when major transactions happen, I don’t particularly want to be alerted when a poll happens. Just trying to give some constructive feedback
deweybelongsinthehall
Do what I do and keep all alerts off and periodically check for new stories. Most of us don’t care if we’re first.
traverave
I think both teams largely come out well in this trade if they both make followup moves. Reds need to infuse more talent for this to make sense and the Dodgers need to make a big splash in free agency (Harper) with the savings and clearer outfield picture.
titanic struggle
Good comment…
astick
Wrong.
traverave
How is it wrong though? It is quite obvious this trade was made by both teams to set themselves up for other moves. It only makes sense if they then make those moves. Otherwise why make the trade?
BravesCanada
Well the reds do get better from the trade for sure so even if they don’t make another move, it makes sense short-term for 2019. They need to make other moves or extend players for it to make sense in the big picture I guess
horrorluvr
Someone doesn’t pay attention to what the Dodgers do and don’t do. They will NEVER EVER sign a 10 year deal.
traverave
They gave Kershaw a 7 year contract. Kenta Maeda an 8 year contract. They are perfectly capable and maybe willing to give out a longer contract to a once in a generation talent.
Ejemp2006
Kenya Maeda deal is 8/25. Not belong in this conversation. Kershaw is Dodger glory boy for generation. Bryce at 10/300, or any other near this no make sense for us or you. But I like it!
traverave
Kenta Maeda was an incentive laden 8/25. They’re paying much more than that. Also the Kershaw deal is still a significant investment in years and dollars (on a pitcher no less). Harper would obviously be a much bigger investment but don’t count them out if the years start creeping up.
ken burkett
How true-people want to see a better team, even if it’s just for a year-Dodgers got two A ball players and a 28million contract of Bailey. Win-Win it’s a chicken dinner for the Reds !!!
everlastingdave
I think it’s more important for the Reds to follow up than the Dodgers. LA’s likely to win the West again even without Harper. If the Reds don’t do something like add Kluber/Keuchel and another bullpen arm after this, they’ll win 80 games and these additions are meaningless.
FromTheCheapSeats
Yasiel Puig is a significant upgrade. Alex Wood, though, is an ENORMOUS upgrade. The Reds starting pitching has been unbelievably bad for the last few years.
titanic struggle
I’m going to argue the point that the Reds pitching has been terrible, over the last couple of years they have relied on kids that shouldn’t have necessarily been in the show. They have young talented arms that many teams would love to have. This isn’t a staff full of Homer Baileys…
Cashford64
There is no amount of moves the Reds can make that will put them over the Cubs, Brewers, and Cardinals. Notice all the players they’ve acquired are free agents after next season. I’m pretty sure they are betting on some or all of these guys having good enough first halves that they can trade them for a substantial set of prospects at the deadline.
Djones246890
I agree with Cashford. I highly doubt Puig or Kemp are going to want to stay in Cincinnati.
I just think this was a roundabout way of potentially farming some prospects, from another team, come July.
sixpacktwo
Reds should be fun to watch even if they do nothing more.
ken burkett
If taking on 28million of Baileys contract how does that make them closer to signing Harper??? That also includes 5 lefthanded hitters already in the Dodgers roster-Friedman loves to throw money around-he had previously signed McCarthy 4 years for 48 million and Kasmir 3 years for 38 million – I’m glad he’s not my accountant !!! As i recall his first springtraining deals sent Dee Gordan and starting pitcher Haren(and paid his 10million contract) to the Marlins for 3 minor leaguers and got past his prime Kendricks to play second.! Gordan won his second stolen base crown,Batting title and Gold Glove for the Marlins !! Then Friedman realizing he needed starting pitching signed Anderson for 18million who ended up having a poorer yeat than Haren-then resigned him,then released him.!!!!! THen Friedman’s penny pinching at the last two deadlines were a joke-could have gotten Verlander and J D Martinez and this year he got Axford-PLEASE !!!!
Jeremy Howdyshell
Because they weren’t looking to sign Harper because of the luxury tax. Bailey is owed $28M but his luxury tax number is only $17M because luxury tax goes off the average salary across a players contract. They took on a $17M hit to luxury cap and offloaded Kemp at $21M, Puig at likely around $11M and Wood at around $9M. Offloading $41M and taking on $17M definitely puts them at a better position to spend this off-season. If they can’t flip a trade or two for great veterans or make a splash in FA by the start of the season then yes the Dodgers lost this trade because even if the Reds flip all three at the deadline they’ll at least get prospects as good as the two they gave up and at least Kemp, Wood and Puig should be able to put butts in seats and sell merchandise meaning the Reds will have more to spend going forward. The Reds already won and if the Dodgers take advantage of additional cap space they win too.
MahatmaGagne
If Reds don’t get Kluber they should take Ruch Hill from the Dodgers as a plan B. Their rotation would be pretty stout.
AndreTheGiantKiller
Got quite a chuckle out of Bryce Harper being an option for winner. Well done
Lefty Grove’s right hand
I think Bryce Harper is going to be a winner this offseason whatever happens.
traverave
For sure. Even if he gets less than he expected, he’s going to be a very rich guy.
HubcapDiamondStarHalo
Hey, I sent him a really nice Christmas card and said great things about him to him!
You never know.
Isthisserious
A difficult question to ask considering no one is sure how well Gray and Downs will do. Other factors such as if the Reds are going to use a Puig/ Kemp and possibly Wood depending on contention. I wouldnt be surprised if Cincy tries to up Puig, otherwise it’s highly likely they will simply deal them at the deadline. If we’re talking salary dumping, then clearly the Dodgers, especially of the Harper situation comes to fruition. Should this question be more appropriate a bit further down the road?
Goku the Knowledgable One
Right now it’s such a win-win.
Reds finally dump Homer Bailey while adding household names to a small market.
Dodgers now have the money to add an elite piece.
astick
Wrong.
ksoze
@asclown thanks for the thoughtful insights. We all now see your side, and are now swayed.
Thronson5
@asstick…get a life!
ken burkett
Wrong-you just got a 28 million contract of Bailey !!
iverbure
These polls are easy to predict. The simpletons declare the winner of the trade is the team that acquires the established talent. They fail to remember what their terrible opinion was the year prior on the trade they hated but now love.
basebaIl1600
Get your salty ass off the comment section, then.
Samuel
…….and a Merry Christmas to you…..
Mr. Sunshine
astick
Wrong.
dirtydan
You must be bored lol
Prospectnvstr
That happens MOST of the time. it’s hard for “people” to admit they were wrong & that the people who are paid to make these type of decisions REALLY do know what they’re doing, even when it doesn’t work out the way they wanted/expected it to.
Ski to Coors
I feel like Dodgers should have gotten more for Puig and Wood, swapping Homer and Kemp should’ve added to their return even. I rated both teams a B, but thinking about it more now, just in terms of value, Reds definitely won the trade. High draft pick pedigree guy that looks like he may only be a utility player, and a college pitcher that excelled in short season ball? Meh. I should’ve given the Reds and A and Dodgers a C.
That said, if this allows Dodgers to sign Harper, than it was indeed win-win for both teams. Puig and Wood will fetch more at that deadline than what the Reds gave up, and they now look a little more competitive.
redsfan54
I think you undervalue both of the prospects the Dodgers received.
Ty1990
Maybe, but they are so far from the majors that no one really knows what they’ll do. Gray has only been pitching for the last 3, or so, years and i truly believe that there’s no such thing as a pitching prospect now a days.
Downs will most likely be a second baseman with a little bit of pop and good speed, but there are lots of those guys in the majors right now.
ken burkett
They are prospects and the Reds got 4 major league players-Farmer who really wasn’t given much of a chance to play-has constantly hit for average in the minors and now the Doders have .200 BA of Barnes-getting rid of both Kemp and Puig leaves the Dodgers totally a left hitting outfield !!! Cinn. will be better at least this year especially since dumping the Bailey 28 million contract on the Dodgers !!
ScottRolen
If these moves do not lead to other moves then it’s a lose/lose transaction.
I was actually expecting to hear the announcement of a Realmuto-to-the-Dodgers trade by now.
I don’t have any clue to what the Reds are trying to do.
ksoze
I would say the Reds are trying to improve their team. Just a guess
ken burkett
I expected Farmer and JocPederson to be dealt for Realmuto or one of the Cleveland pitchers!!!
hockeyjohn
It would have taken more than Farmer and Pederson to get one of the Cleveland pitchers.
gogoblue
I actually voted Bryce Harper as biggest winner of this trade because that trade created both salary room and position for him to join the Dodgers. But if the Dodgers flip those prospects they got from the Reds to the Marlins for Realmuto, then my vote will change to the Dodgers.
ken48tribe
Like most trades involving veterans for prospects, it is best to wait several years before trying to judge winners and losers. Look at some of the vets for prospects that the Indians have done- gaining such players as Cliff Lee, Grady Sizemore, Michael Brantley, and Carlos Carrasco. Trades that were panned at the time turned out to be very successful for the Tribe.
ASapsFables
This poll needs an “I” for incomplete, especially regarding the Dodgers.
franksouze
I concur with the I for incompletely theory.
i do believe jettisoning a labor intensive & clubhouse personality hog such as Puig is an immediate plus as the Dogers seem to have statistical production covered.
franksouze
I concur with the I for incompletely theory.
i do believe jettisoning a labor intensive & clubhouse personality hog such as Puig is an immediate plus as the Dogers seem to have his statistical production covered.
MWeller77
Puig does not get rave reviews for his clubhouse interactions
MWeller77
I was thinking the same thing. The success of this move almost entirely depends on what the Dodgers do next (or at least between now and Opening Day).
bkwalker510
it’s a bit premature to say isn’t it?
tharrie0820
Big Alex Wood fan, so I’m gonna have to go with the Reds in this one Mr. Zencka
tac3
Dodgers. Small market teams need to stop bailing out Big market teams.
BigTuna
Name one time a small market team bailed out a big market team in recent history. Not only is that not the case here with the Reds but I can’t even think of one time where this has happened somewhat recently…
EndinStealth
Dodgers and it’s not close. They got prospects, Downs is going to be very good. The Dodgers got rid of spare parts and freed up money. The Reds lost prospects for year of players and unless they do lots more they wont compete.
Jean Matrac
“Downs is going to be very good.”
No one knows whether a 19 year-old, that hit well in Rookie Ball, and Low A, is going to develop into an even average MLB guy, let alone be “very good”.
EndinStealth
Point taken, but he should be and the risk was worth it for the Dodgers. The fact they dump salary and got rid of players that really weren’t close to their core is a huge win for them.
sixpacktwo
You do know Kemp and Puig are now hitting in a much smaller park and that alone will fill some seats. Then you have the trade deadline and QO to get back prospects.
someoldguy
Prospect do not equal value; they equal believed value: Depending on their ranking, prospects fail at between 50% to 75% for position player in the top of the rankings and down to 80% for pitching prospects. Even # 1 prospects fail. So what this really is is trading proven players for unproven hopes.
mistry gm
The Reds got Puig so they LOST big time.
Afk711
This is not 2016. Puig isn’t a headcase anymore
Rickey O'Sunnyvale
I, and a lot of Dodger fans, are going to miss the great baseball talent and entertainer that is Yasiel Puig. So right now, I feel like the loser in this trade. Come February, I expect this morphs into a win-win situation..
MWeller77
I know what you mean. I think the Dodgers are probably better off moving forward without Puig, but he was just so much fun to watch…
He was traded thata way.
The reds won. Puig and wood easily become trade deadline bait if the reds are out of contention and can net some decent prospects at the trade deadline for them.
EndinStealth
At the deadline they will net less than what they gave up for a full season.
He was traded thata way.
But could still net a back end 100 prospect if either is having a great season. Contract year I expect Puig to post monster numbers like cespedes looking for a new deal.
Also at worst Puig and wood become qo Candidates which nets the reds extra draft picks.
Reds could ship Puig right now to Atlanta for someone like koby Allard and another prospect. Atlanta needs OF and Puig would pair well with acuna and inciarte
jtkuch
From a pure value standpoint, the Reds won handily. But it also doesn’t really fit what they should be doing in a rebuild, so it’s a lose-lose.
joeshmoe11
What should they be doing? They traded redundant prospects several years away and far behind other guys at similar positions for MLB talent. The NL Central is going to be very competitive for a long time so there’s no definitive opportune time to aim to try to compete so they’re taking advantage of a good lineup and upgrading a poor rotation for 2019. Actively trying to better a roster isn’t a bad thing, I’m not sure why everyone seems to think it is.
ksoze
The Reds are no longer in the stock pile mode. The are in the add fuel to the fire mode. Senzel is up this year to join Votto, Suarez, Gennett, and Winker. Now you’ve added Puig to that mix.
They also added Wood, and Roark to Castillo and DeSclafani. They said the same night that the trade was announced, that they were not done adding to this roster. If they add on high end arm Kluber, or Keuchel, their rotation can go toe to toe with any in the Division.
aaronw928
The rebuild is basically over so they did quite well to get useful talent instead of paying Bailey to be a problem all year.
rmullig2
I love the deal for the Reds. Bailey’s contract was an albatross for the team. Taken together the contracts of Wood, Puig, and Kemp provide at least fair value for the money owed. They can flip Wood and Puig at the deadline saving cash and getting prospect value back or worst case scenario they can qualify them both and take the draft picks. Even Kemp may put up good enough numbers in that ballpark to enable them to trade him at the deadline and save some money.
ken burkett
I believe they can get higher than A ball players at the deadline if all acquired have good years -so it’s a win-win for Cinn. !!
themed
Not even close. The reds won and I now think they are better than the cubs.
VegasSDfan
Dodgers won, dumping salary. Dodgers won dumping Puigs me first personality.
Reds won with obtaining power.
Kemp and Puig will launch way more home runs in a Reds uniform.
The ballparks out West are huge…
Would be interesting to see how both do playing full time.
VegasSDfan
How can the Dodgers be competitive turning over so much of the roster?
Blue_Painted_Dreams_LA
They needed to quite honestly. The roster from top to bottom was crowded. Kemp although he had a great 1st half, pitchers adjusted and Kemp became a spare part. Wood lost his spot in the rotation and wasn’t effective in the pen. There really was no room for him again this year. Puig was fun and energetic, and has developed into a very good player but he didn’t fit their needs. The Dodgers traded spare parts to clear up the roster a bit, but didn’t trade a part of their core. They still have a little more work to do, but are still extremely talented. The Dodgers talent created a roster crunch and non functional pieces are being churned as it figured they would be.
ray714
Puig me first personality??? Lmao you clearly don’t know what ur talking about..
themaven
Dodgers win this deal now and in the future.Not only do they free up money to help stay under the luxury tax they pick up two decent prospects.This let’s them sign Harper, Pollack etc. and deal prospects for Realmuto without hurting themselves financially or depleting their farm system.
The Reds get better for one season,but in the division they’re in that still doesn’t make them contenders for a play off birth.They may be able to flip Puig or Woods at the trade deadline,but they probably won’t get back prospects as good as the ones they traded..If the Reds can turn the ex-Dodgers into some decent talent the trade evens up,but that’s counting on lot of positive things to happen.
gkrake
It’s a win-win.
Reds can always deal Puig at the deadline if they aren’t contenders. Puig has done well historically in the playoffs so he has some value there as the Reds could possibly recoup some prospects at the deadline if they aren’t playoff bound themselves.
For the Dodgers, the roster spots they cleared are quite valuable to them when you consider they still need to address 2B and C which may yet happen through Free Agency or another trade. Also, Puig, Kemp and Wood all needed to go anyway. Wood should be starting somewhere but he couldn’t crack the Dodger rotation. Also, Puig could/should be playing everyday somewhere, but with the Dodger’s propensity for platooning, they were utilizing him as such. Giving him a chance at another club was inevitable as he wasn’t going to happy platooning. The fact that they got solid prospects back in addition to the salary cap space makes it a win for them as well.
bulldog
WHO CARES!!!
didi gregorious nose
If puigs home got burglarized while he played 4 miles away imagine now 2,200 miles away. Id have to say the reds are going to score a ton of runs this year 1-7 hitters are above average hitters with power.
muskie73
In an ideal world both (or all) teams to a trade come out winners.
These polls serve little purpose other than to attract hits to the website (a website that serves other laudable purposes).
its_happening
Reds still need to address CF. Until they do this is a Dodger victory. Reds probably need to deal one of their corner OFs for a CF. Unless the guy their currently have is their guy, then they’d need to deal their corner OF for a pitcher.
DjRed
CF will likely be patrolled by Senzel UNLESS Scooter is traded. For the Reds, Wood was the big piece and could likely be extended soon. Giving up Downs and getting rid of Bailey for Wood? That alone is a good deal. Throw in Puig and spot starter and pinch hitter Kemp that’s a bonus.
An outfield of Puig, Schebler, Kemp, Winker, Ervin, and Senzel spells another deal being made. Reds farm is pretty deep now, very good deal by the reds. IF LA signs Harper good deal for both. I think that’s a lock btw.
redsorbust
so many good right on comments. so much yet to be determined as the off season and regular season moves along to make more solid educated decision about this trade
i for one am happy with the trade. been soon long since we have had anything to be excited about and IMO at least we have a shot at wild card if we can nab one above average starter somewhere.
callingoutdummies247
Bryce Harper wins
imgman09
la because no more drama with Puke
gomerhodge71
Reds get a few good players so their 2019 season doesn’t crash (again). Dodgers dump a lot of salary and walk-year players. Even Steven.
astros_fan_84
I think it’s a big win for Cincinnati. Attendance matters. Puig and Wood are both QO candidates, or can be flipped.
redsFAN86
Clearly a win-win for both clubs.
Dodgers cut ties due to lux tax. Picked up a two good prospects.
Reds trades from depth and have three good players to contribute and can be flipped and/or traded during the season.
ray714
Both B grades.. and win win . Anything else is a wrong vote.
SoCalBrave
The Dodgers made this trade with JT Realmuto in mind, not Harper.
astick
Wrong.
Thronson5
@asstick…get a life!
darenh
Let’s measure winners and losers before they play a single game.
Brilliant use of time and energy.
deweybelongsinthehall
It’s premature to judge this trade without seeing what else the teams will do before opening day and thereafter.
astick
Correct.
Michael Kirschbaum
Only depends on if the Dodgers get Harper. If they get Harper than obviously they won the deal.
deweybelongsinthehall
Depends on the years and average value. Assume the Dodgers get Harper. Many will then argue they LOST this trade….Worth a nice contract but not in the Trout neighborhood. Not even in the same city.
kenly0
I think its lose lose. The Dodgers gave up a good OF plus a mid rotation SP for a couple of prospects and a little help money wise. A team playing to win titles usually doesn’t make moves like this unless they plan on using the money to upgrade one or both of those positions they gave up. So, the Dodgers need to make future moves to make this deal a win or push. But, making this deal with no future move is a loss. The Reds get better for 2019. But, let’s be honest. Even with this trade. They’re still not going to compete for a title. So, they gave up useful pieces for when they might compete for a title to make their fans feel a little better in the short term. They basically dug themselves a deeper hole to climb out of to contend. How in the world does a trade hurt both teams? Because it just happened.
tv 2
reds have the best offensive on the nl now! they basically have 3 arms as good as Milwaukee. look it up
ziqster
The Dodgers do not need Harper. They already have 3 solid lefty outfielders in Bellinger, Pederson and Verdugo. Adding a fourth lefty won’t help.
Lance Wilson
That’s why the Cardinals are getting Bryce
restingmitchface
I kinda dislike this trade for both teams.
For the Reds, yeah, you’re getting a nice little shot in the arm, but to what benefit? And at what cost? Are the Reds significant contenders in the NL Central after this trade? I’d say no. I mean, even if we assume best-case scenarios from Kemp, Puig, and Wood, these Reds aren’t likely to contend. Steamer is pretty bearish on Kemp and Wood, too. Just something to keep in mind.
For the Dodgers, I don’t like it because I’m tired of big-market billionaire owners hiding behind the luxury tax. I don’t care if they go sign Bryce now or not — making trades based mostly on finances is a terrible way for a big-market team like LAD to operate.
Blue_Painted_Dreams_LA
A portion to take into account is the fact that the 400M bankruptcy debt was factored into the tv contract along with blowing their rev/debt calculator out of the the water, consisting of payroll stadium renovations and one time expenses. So as much as you may not like it, there is most likely a certain threshold they won’t be able to cross. It was pretty clear that they were under league mandate last season, no longer being in the grace period. So is this the way a big market team acts? Maybe/maybe not, but this also isn’t a typical big market. Kemp, Wood, and Puig appeared like they were going to be churned regardless. Like it or not there’s a de facto cap now. The players royally screwed themselves as the years of control/pay are archaic, the squeezing out of middle players, and basically expensive short term contracts will be now be a focus of shifting and adding prospects to.
pustule bosey
the reds probably did a little better but it’s hard to say they won because puig is on their team now.
Stevil
You almost never win a trade at the time of the deal. You have to wait and see how the returns pay off and it’s entirely possible that both teams win, lose, or accomplish nothing.
Michael Kirschbaum
Lmfao really? You really like to state the obvious don’t you. Lmfao…
Michael Kirschbaum
Lmfao really? You really like to state the obvious don’t you. Lmfao…
smrtrtanur
The Reds might have surrendered 12 years of control to someone who stalls out at AAA. I know small market teams must develop young controllable talent…but at some point you have to take chances. For reference, the Dodgers’ #7 prospect in 2013 was Matt Magil; #16 was Rob Rasmussen. Doesn’t matter how controllable you are if you never reach MLB.
bigrickdeemann
Exactly the Reds won habds down.
franksouze
Puig requires a ton of oversight , tolerance and management (baby sitting)
-depending on the culture of the Reds clubhouse and the veteran leadership, Puig could experience an interesting ramp up with fitting in.
i wouldnt have him on my team.
bigrickdeemann
The Reds give up Bailey and 2 nothing prospects then receive 3 bonified Major leaguers who are serviceable at worst. Puig can put up 40 home runs in that cracker box and Wood has some real good upside. Who knows on Kemp but the guy was the top 3 in RISP average the first half of 18. There is hardly a question the Reds got the better of this. The Dodgers got 2 nothings and salary relief. Come on Man!
Willy
Sorry but you obviously don’t follow baseball prospects. Both of those “nothings” are solid prospects. Just because a prospect doesn’t make the top 100 list doesn’t mean they are garbage. The Reds gave up way too much for older, expensive players on the last years of their deals. If none of them are
re-signed would you still think the Reds won the deal?
tv 2
lol a backup infielder and a bullpen arm lol not in a ball. not good prospects
JeremyR
If nothing else, the Reds got a lot more interesting.
mrflimflam
The Reds had to do something this year. They had their worst attendance since 1984 which was a year after they lost 100 games. Cincy is a good Baseball town but fans start to lose interest after four straight years of 90+ losses. Many fans come from Kentucky, Indiana, West Virginia, and even Tennessee. It’s very expensive for people to attend games when you count travel time, fuel, parking, etc. People will come but they need to see improvement and a willingness by the FO and ownership to improve and not constantly tear down. The minor league soccer team (soon to be part of MLS) drew better than the Reds. The Bengals showed what would happen to a fanbase if too many years of losing are strung together. They had a strong and loyal fanbase they almost always filled Riverfront Stadium from 1968 through 1992. After that there were twelve years of the Bungals. Even with a decent run since then the team struggles to sell tickets. The fanbase moved on to other things and have not returned. The Reds are in danger of that so they needed to show the fans something big. I personally believe the Reds needed another year of the rebuild to season the young players but only drawing 1.6 million fans this past year changed all of that. Plus there is the Votto factor. He is not getting any younger with last season seeing his worst non-injury output since his rookie season. Maybe his decline has already commenced but the Reds need him to be the center of this new window of winning they believe they are entering. Waiting one more season might close that window before it ever opens fully if Votto’s eventual decline has already begun. I believe the trade to be a big win for the Reds simply because it has ignited fan interest again. I live in basketball crazy Kentucky and I hear much more positive talk about the Reds than the Wildcats or Cardinals combined. It’s been several years since that has been the case. We are all anticipating the next big move. Maybe the Reds only win 80 games or maybe they are out of contention by July and trade Puig, Kemp, Wood and Roark at the deadline it’s possible. That really doesn’t matter because right now the trade gave me, a Reds fan since 1966, something I have not had for five years, and that is Hope. Yes it’s worth it.
DjRed
Great post mrfilmflam!!
I believe you spoke for a large majority of us reds fans.
Lance Wilson
Finally a tough reds team. This is going to be an exciting season!!!! they will still get 4th though
iceman35pilot
Cincinnati is a baseball town? I’ve lived here 20 years and never seen that. I’ve walked up and bought tickets to a Saturday night game in August when the Reds were in first place. What else is exactly drawing people away that a “baseball town” can’t fill a stadium when the team is in first on a weekend?
Except for opening day, which people love to brag about how many y consecutive ones they’ve been to, it’s never a baseball town. The very fact a minor league soccer team outdrew the oldest franchise in MLB should tell you what kind of town Cincinnati is.
It’s also far cheaper to attend Reds games than a lot of other ball parks. I can walk up and get ticket for less than $20. Parking? It’s $10 to park 3 blocks away and walk.
You live in Kentucky and you’re telling me UK has less people talking about it than the Reds? 18 of my 20 years here have been on the Kentucky side and frankly, that’s simply not true.
lowtalker1
The reds are not the oldest team in baseball. I don’t know why people still pull that card. The oldest team is the braves. They reds folded for a few years in the 1800s
tv 2
lol nice try. reds are the first pro team .crosley was the first to pay. plain and simple
tv 2
for a few games a year. fc is for rich people. it will wear off. reds have draw a million plus for a 100 years. this is not a soccer town you clown.
iceman35pilot
A few games a year? They averaged less than 50% capacity over 81 games last year. Whatever kind of town they are, it’s not a baseball town.
Willy
I’m blown away that people actually feel (the poll) that the Reds won this trade, hahahaha.
Syndergaarden Cop
what a joke. reds FO got scammed
Willy
Agreed.
Syndergaarden Cop
shows how dumb MLBTR readers are. most of them, anyway
stratcrowder
Whatever dude. A jettison of Bailey with any kind of return is a good thing. Beside that, NOBODY can accurately judge ANY trade or free agent signing for years.
lowtalker1
I called it a lose lose
I felt it was a stupid trade over all
Willy
Why so angry?
zachgwest
This is a salary dump not a trade
tv 2
this just shows how much the national media care about anyone but Boston ny and la. They dont know crap about our team. This trade was a steal. They could flip wood and puig right now for better prospects. They traded a back up infielder with no power and a reliever at best. They can now wait for 5 top 100 guys to replace them next year. they get rid of dead money and can sell some tickets. la did not win. la is covering up their bad decisions.
Lance Wilson
I am a Cardinals fan so I do not like the teams but the Reds did win that trade. The reds might have a winning season with them.
Sopro Found
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Sopro Found
My bad..just ignore that..I have a problem with prematurely ejac..err um..I mean prematurely clicking submit before I can satisfy the comment box..