Manny Machado will head to Philadelphia for an in-person visit with the Phillies next week, per Bob Nightengale of USA Today, and George A. King III of the New York Post suggests that a similar visit to Yankee Stadium could be lined up for next week as well. The Yankees and Phillies are two of the reported four teams set to be aligning visits with the polarizing Machado, along with the White Sox and the ever-popular “mystery team.” For the Phillies, the acquisition of Jean Segura makes Machado a likelier fit at third base despite the infielder’s clear preference to play shortstop. Machado’s former third base coach in Baltimore, Bobby Dickerson, tells Scott Lauber of the Philadelphia Inquirer that he believes Machado would move to third base if an offer to do so was the clear best offer he received in free agency. Perhaps more interestingly, Dickerson talks with Lauber about Machado’s personality, his preternatural defensive aptitude at third base and, in reference to Machado’s October villainy, his belief that Machado “is fine with being the bad boy.”
With the Winter Meetings now in the rear-view mirror, here’s a bit more on Machado and the market’s other top free agent…
- White Sox GM Rick Hahn somewhat indirectly acknowledged his interest in both Machado and Bryce Harper on Thursday, as Bruce Levine writes for 670 The Score FM. “We are excited to be discussing impactful moves for the long term,” said Hahn of his team’s reported interest in the market’s top two free agents. “It’s good to have a seat at the table for some long impactful moves. This work does not mean anything is going to come together. … Even if we are able to convert on something big, there is a lot of work to do behind it to get us where we want to be (as an organization).” Levine suggests that an opt-out provision after three or four years would be a “significant draw” for Harper, though that much has been more or less expected for some time. Top free agents have increasingly gravitated toward the inclusion of such contracts, and several recent free-agent signings have included multiple opportunities to re-enter free agency (e.g. Jason Heyward, J.D. Martinez).
- Also via Nightengale, agent Scott Boras implied in characteristically colorful fashion that he’s not concerned about early indications that some potential suitors (e.g. Yankees, Cardinals) have limited interest or trepidation when it comes to a legitimate pursuit of Harper. “When the nurse walks in the room with the thermometer, the issue is not what the thermometer says that day,” said Boras. “The issue is what’s the health of the patient when they’re ready to leave the hospital.” The Phillies and White Sox both remain in the mix on Harper, per the report, and Nightengale speculatively suggests that the Dodgers, who are reportedly trying to move Matt Kemp and Yasiel Puig, shouldn’t be ruled out. Jim Bowden of MLB Network Radio on SiriusXM, though, tweets that the Dodgers aren’t interested in pushing talks to 10 years on Harper. Nor, for that matter, are the Angels or Giants, each of whom has been previously mentioned as a potential dark horse.
- ESPN’s Buster Olney writes that executives from other clubs and agents throughout the industry find it increasingly possible that the Phillies, long the presumptive favorite to sign one of Harper or Machado, could instead come away with neither in hand. Olney, too, suggests that the Dodgers’ efforts to move Kemp, Puig and other notable salaries could eventually result in the capacity to submit a winning offer to Harper. While there’s doubt that the Dodgers would offer the longest-term contract, Olney suggests perhaps a front-loaded deal with a substantial annual value from a team that has appeared in consecutive World Series would prove enticing. Meanwhile, the Yankees still present a viable threat to the Phillies for Machado as they look to close ground on the World Champion Red Sox.
- There’s no indication that anything has changed for the Cubs, per Patrick Mooney of The Athletic (subscription required), who writes that the team is “close to maxing out” its baseball operations budget for the 2019 season. Rather than acknowledge a need for any sort of augmentation to the roster, manager Joe Maddon suggested that the greater issue for the Cubs is to extract better performance from the talent already in house. Along those same lines, GM Jed Hoyer spoke of the promising signs he’s seen in Kris Bryant as he looks to rehab from 2018 shoulder woes.
c1234
Isn’t it unfair to try and force Harper to the Yankees? I really don’t want the Warriors situation in the MLB, that would be the most boring thing.
baseballpun
The AL is already pretty much like the NBA.
sportznut1000
the warriors situation? you mean a team that only makes the playoffs like once in 40 years and then finally turns their team around through good draft picks? you mean that situation? everyone says they want to see the underdogs win but if those same underdogs then start winning too much, people get upset. the cleveland browns could win 4 championships in a row and people would start complaining that the nfl is boring
snotrocket
Nailed it.
NeedsMoreTime
Clearly he’s talking about Durant joining the already best team.
ric7744
The warriors won one without Durant and would have got more without him. Besides Durant the team was completely built from the draft and lost for decades
NeedsMoreTime
Yeah no one is arguing that. The original point was that the CURRENT warriors situation is not a desired situation for the mlb. It may not be the best comparison but one that’s not too hard to understand
southbeachbully
GSW beat the Cavs without Love and Irving their 1st year. Lost to them the following year when both Love and Irving were healthy. Then they got Durant. I’m not so sure they would be a lock to win more without Durant. Keep in mind that they barely made it past OKC the year before Durant joined them too which makes Durant’s joining them even more of a chump move. And it’s not a stretch to think that without Durant, maybe the Cavs and Irving stay together and possibly win again.
Bryzzobristory
It’s almost impossible to have a “Warriors” situation in baseball because it’s the ultimate team sport. One player can’t just take over a game. And how many times have we seen a team go out and build a virtual all-star team and end up falling on their faces?
WestCoastSoxFan
No, the “Warriors situation” meaning 2-3 teams have a chance at a title every year in the NBA. At least in MLB the playoffs are wide open.
Stromalama 2
I think he means that a team that is already dominant then adds one of the top five players in the NBA.
slider32
Forbes has every team in baseball clearing over 210 million a year, so they all have the ability to spend, some of these owners are worth billions of dollars. Even teams like the A’s Rays, and Marlins can spend.
Jonthunder
The Warriors are more like the Astros than the Yankees: those fans hung in for some lean years to build a perennial champion.
Phillies2017
When was the last time the Yankees fans had to go through a period of bad seasons?
southbeachbully
I’m pretty sure everyone was ok with the Warriors until Durant joined the team that just won 73 games. Then added Boogie too?
As for the comparison, the NBA has had 6 teams (Bulls, Spurs, Heat, Lakers, Celtics and GS) win the bulk of the chips in the last 30 years. In mlb, other than the Yanks, BSox, Cards and Giants there’s been far, far, far more parody and we’ve seen historically frustrated franchise win titles (Bsox,Wsox,Cubs, etc).
Polymath
Good post. Except you meant parity.
southbeachbully
Yes. My bad. Thanks.
teddyj
Baseball is a parody of itself
HighCheese17
In the past 30 years, NYY has won 5, BoSox 4, Giants 3, Cards 2, Marlins 2 and Toronto 2. The other 12 winners won one each. All leagues are going to have stronger teams where ownership has a strategy and resources. Regardless, this looks like pretty good parity.
terror661
Where the Yankees draft their best players and free agents flock to a choice destination? You mean how to build a successful franchise? Good thing you will never have anything to do with being a GM.
WestCoastSoxFan
And the Yankees just came off s stretch where they only won 1 playoff series in 5-6 years, so it isn’t like they are a factor every year, either.
wrigleywannabe
I doubt he wants to be a GM. He was speaking as a fan
66TheNumberOfTheBest
MLB is like the UN.
The Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, etc. get a permanent seat at the table and every so often they rotate in a few new teams, like the Indians or Brewers, for show.
retire21
Extra
retire21
Exactly
Jonthunder
Extra exactly.
Adam6710
The Yankees failed to make the playoffs in 2013, 2014, and failed to make the ALDS in 2015.
But sure, permanent seat at the table. Amazing how Yankee critics both complain that they’re always winning AND laughing at their lack of winning.
bronxbombers
Missed the playoffs 3 times in 22 years lmao good point Adam
WestCoastSoxFan
They missed the playoffs 3 times in 4 years from 2013-2016(and won 2 playoff series from 2010-2016), but let’s talk about 22 years for some reason.
yanksknicks
The Red Sox have won championships recently but have also been bottom feeders recently as well so they aren’t always winning. My Yankees are always competing but not always in the playoffs.
southbeachbully
You can add Atlanta to that list too. 20 appearances in the last 27 years.
heater
Would you say that if you were a fan of one of those teams?
brandons-3
I don’t think the “Warriors thing” can happen as much as it does in basketball. The impact of one player can be felt more in basketball just because there’s only 5 players at once who both play offense and defense for 60-80% of the game. Baseball you’re only getting 3-5 at bats from a Harper per game. (Say the Yankees go through the lineup four times, giving Harper four at-bats, that’s only 11% of the team’s at-bats.)
Add the fact that the best team doesn’t always win, whereas the better team usually overwhelmingly wins in the NBA playoffs, and you’d have nothing to be afraid of other than annoying Yankee fans. 🙂
winston714
Not about forcing Harper to Yanks, it is about Boros making other teams think Yankees/Dodgers/RedSox are players in bidding. Make someone pay as much possible
xabial
Warriors? What. I’ve made it well known Harper’s my favorite player that I hope they sign but they would still need starting pitching. Especially if 36 y.o Happ’s again hapless in the playoffs. CC’s retiring after this year…
Stanton Judge Harper would be a generational OF tho. They’re all so young and would be locked in for the foreseeable future, even if Hicks is placeholder CF
MetsYankeesRedSox
Lol @ hapless.
Was that merely a happenstance comment?
southbeachbully
The disrespect is real for my guy Hicks aka the “5th Beatle”. The kid “only” had a 8.2 WAR the last two years and is only going to be 29 for the entirety of the 2019 season.
I wonder what he would command if he was a FA this year? He would have to get what Cain got last year right?
WestCoastSoxFan
You have it about right with the Cain comp. 5yr/$80m is what he got. I think Dexter Fowler even got a little more. With another solid season in 2019, Hicks might even beat those 2 deals.
thetruth 2
Hicks with his injury history isn’t coming close.
xabial
I was in a hurry to take a test and thought my post was understood. Baseball has too much parity for NYY to overcome questionable SP
By placeholder I meant expiring contract.
Hicks is one of the best CF in the game. Arguably strongest throwing arm out all OF ELITE Defense with career-highs across: 27HRs, .248 BA, .366OBP .467 SLG in 2018
I just dont think Yanks commit ~100M if they manage to land Harper. I meant no disrespect. Hicks just needs to stay healthy; but budding into one of best all-around players and even without Harper, always seems like the forgotton man. Honestly, hope they re-sign him after 2019 or work an extension.
jonsteele
The NBA gave max contracts so that alone is the main reason there’s super teams through FA. So it’s kinda apples to oranges. Yankees as profitable as they are and as successful as they’ve been throughout history…still have a budget they gotta stick to and can’t go nuts on every pretty toy.
WestCoastSoxFan
Boras is going to drag out this Harper signing until February. We’ve got 2 more months of empty stories like these in the meantime.
southbeachbully
I don’t think so. The major market teams (basically the only teams that can afford him) all have multiple needs. Coupled with the fact that Manny is out there too. I really don’t expect any team to sign both,
So if the Sox aren’t in on either and in fact, are looking to move players to create salary space to address the bullpen etc. and the Yanks need to address their bullpen, a SS/2B and perhaps a LF and the Phillies with multiple needs too then who, besides LA, CSox and perhaps the Cardinals can Boras really string along and still have funds to put towards Harper?
I think the market is clearly defined for both Manny and Harper and I expect both to be signed before Xmas. Harper seems like the kind of guy that wants this to be settled sooner than later.
fba0017
That would mean Yankees are best team on planet already. I must have missed them winning multiple World Series lately. Lol
John Stephens
The Red Sox (who I don’t like by the way) won 108 games and whipped right through the playoffs, winning the World Series for the 4th time since 2004 – the Yankees have won it once in the last 18 seasons – how are they like the Warriors?
Marc (Phillies Phan)
It is not phrased well, but what I THINK the “warriors intent” was that in the AL we pretty much “know” the Sox, Indians, and Astros will win the division and the Yankees will win the first wild card spot (as it stands today, 12/14). To me, that is not exciting IF it pans out that way.
The other problem I have with the statement is anything can happen (injuries, someone carries the team etc.). Unexpected contending teams cause drama. The Phillies led the division until August 12. No one expected them to. Everyone said the Nats would win it. No one expected the Braves to win it. The NL East was VERY weak last year, but there was drama.
At least that was my take on the comment.
Luke1358
I mean except baseball is far more of a team sport than basketball. Lebron James in his prime can carry a bad basketball team deep into the playoffs, Bryce Harper alone wouldn’t even guarantee a bad baseball team made it out of the cellar. You’re comparing apples to oranges. Yankees would probably still choke in the playoffs because that’s what numerous key members of their team do right now (Sanchez, Stanton, Their bullpen)
ChiSox_Fan
Nothing new here.
Let me know when Harper signs with Sox.
heater
Ok. Wait by the phone…………
Reeve
I’m glad the cubs didn’t make any drastic moves. The talent is def there. If Darvish, Bryant and Chatwood come back strong, then it’ll be like adding three new players. This young core (Happ, Almora, Bote, Schwarber) has great team chemistry. Let them develop. Hoping every baseball fan has a great day today.
ncaachampillini
No doubt KB comes back just fine. He was on a 7 WAR pace last year before he idiotically hurt his shoulder sliding head first into first base. That is one of his only negatives the dumb ass decision to slide like that. I have no doubt he’ll rebound.
Darvish you need to have about 80% confidence in I’d say. Still the all time leader in K per 9. I think he’ll recover.
Chatwood I have 100% faith that he will still suck. I don’t even think he’ll be on the team honestly. Your comment above is fine you just need to dump the Chatwood narrative.
southbeachbully
You too sir.
ChiSox_Fan
I wonder how much the gun violence in Chicago deters a free agent from signing with the Sox.
bhole
Or the traffic in New York…
Or the Cosby in Philadelphia…
Or the bad pizza in Atlanta…
omalleyiv
Those who say there’s bad pizza in Atlanta have never had Anticos
Steven Eden
Also, Fellini’s.
Michael Birks
+1
snotrocket
The Cosby?
ABCD
More like the boo birds.
ChiSox_Fan
I thought he was locked up.
Tyson’s Pet Tiger
He’ll get ya
thegreatcerealfamine
What’s “the Cosby”, is it a hotel?
ABCD
Don’t think you want to stay there unless you carry in your own bottled drinks.
MetsYankeesRedSox
Hey hey hey!
Slevin
Let’s try and get some politics into this thread.
wrigleywannabe
Great, guy makes a point about violence, which was written in a way you wouldn’t know his political side of it and gets massive downvotes.
Guy makes a joke about rspe and he’s a hero
ABCD
It’s more of a joke about Cosby because we all know rape is not funny and we all know we should not take open drinks from people we don’t know very well.
ABCD
Don’t think there’s been many players shot in Chicago except Eddie Waitikus by a stalker in the fifties.
ChiSox_Fan
That’s one too many.
ChiSoxCity
Do the Bloods, Crips and Mexican street gangs in L.A. affect FA signings for the Dodgers? Angels?
I understand you have an agenda, but Guaranteed Rate Field is less than five miles from Soldiers Field where the Bears play, near the heart of the City. You simply have no rational understanding of Chicago or life there, yet you still want to project negativity (like the national media) on it. Fine, do your thing. Just keep in mind, every city in America has poor neighborhoods with crime and violence, not just Chicago.
Slevin
That park is in the worst part of the city!!
ChiSox_Fan
Sox should have moved to the NW suburbs as threatened/planned years ago.
Fan attendance would average 40k daily regardless of the players they put on the field.
ChiSoxCity
No, it’s not.
MetsYankeesRedSox
Chicago has been a crime infested violent city since at least the 1920s…probably more.
ChiSoxCity
Hahaha, ok man. Some wannabe, bandwagon hopping, conflicted NY fan talking about crime infestation? You are a complete joke.
refereemn77
This! Liquor running, mafia, street gangs… Different eras but still violent crimes. People complain about going to anything where they might have to see something seedy or someone destitute.
Polymath
Agreed
sportingdissent
I live walking distance from the ballpark. Nobody gets shot here. Ever. The crime statistics in this neighborhood (Bridgeport) and the surrounding areas (Canaryville, McKinley Park) are amongst the lowest rates in the city. The highest crime rates are near Wrigley Field. Look it up.
There is a lot of gun violence in Chicago, most of it on the FAR south side of the city. I am in no way trying to lessen that situation, but using that as an excuse not to visit or play in an area that is literally a world away is just blowing smoke.
Slevin
I’ve been there twice guy it’s a sh#t hole, and you’re either blind or completely slow, but I’ll wager on the latter.
sportingdissent
Like I said, the statistics paint a very different picture. Much different than your anecdotal two game personal opinion.
HighCheese17
Ha! White boy here parks (for free) on the street at 31st and walks to the park. Day and night. Never an issue. People don’t understand Chicago. We aren’t ducking bullets regularly. Yes, there is gun violence but it is almost all gang on gang and confined to a few very bad areas.
baseballpun
Businesses should boycott Indiana until they fix their gun laws.
Slevin
Yea because that worked for Dick’s. Cold dead hand Nancy.
SashaBanksFan
Do you mean Illinois?
ABCD
Lyman Bostock was shot and killed in Gary, IN.
baseballpun
No. Chicago guns from from Indiana because it’s close by and laws are lax.
wrigleywannabe
If your theory is the cause, why doesn’t Indiana ot adjoining state have the murder rate Chicago does?
wrigleywannabe
It’s truethe laws are not lax.
Again, if Indiana is the problem its murder rate would be at above Chicago’s. It’s not.
mistry gm
Have you ever read the Constitution?
ChiSox_Fan
Chicago has more total killings than any other U.S. city.
Ask Wayne Messmer about the violence.
ABCD
I wouldn’t worry about it too much.. You can get shot anywhere nowadays. And on a per capita basis, Chicago is not the worst. Plenty of safe neighborhoods for a rich ballplayer to live in.
reneaguerra
You left out the skinheads in LA, business suit or gym owner by day & swastikas at night.
ChiSox_Fan
During the Michael Jordan era, the gangs were paid by the city to stay away from the stadium on game nights so as not to discourage fan attendance and/or embarrass the city.
ABCD
I don’t know about that, but I certainly can’t afford to live in the area around the United Center.
wrigleywannabe
It’s true
jonsteele
Eh not at all I don’t think. These guys make the kind of money where they live in the upper class neighborhoods where none of that really goes on. Like I’m from saint Louis and people keep saying it’s a crap place with violence and racism, in some aspects it’s all true, but these players would probably live in the ritzy neighborhoods where it’s a totally different culture. Plus in the off season a lot of them probably go back to where they live.
So I don’t think it affects their decision at all. It’s mostly about money and team prestige.
ChiSox_Fan
Thanks. That’s the type of reply and discussion I had hoped for when I asked a simple question.
I hope Harper signs with the ChiSox. But I will likely still watch their games on TV.
ABCD
35th and Shields, too scary for you?
ChiSox_Fan
Inconvenient and food/beer prices too high.
ABCD
I can agree with the prices. Everything is too high at the ballpark. I only make it out once a year if I’m lucky.
It would be fun if the ChiSox get Bryce.
Wolf Hoffmann
I don’t think it has any factor in a high end free agent signing there. Every major city in the US is a ghetto. Or at least has plenty of gangs, homelessness and poverty. Luckily for baseball players they can afford to not live amongst that. If Harper signs in LA he isn’t going to be living at Hoover and 52nd street. He will be in Malibu or another upscale community. Now the lower scale free agents may give it a consideration since they may have to live among the regular folk. But even the lowest paid MLB player can live comfortably in a nice upper middle class area. I think a more important consideration are tax rates. In L.A. Harper will be earning maybe 50 cents on every dollar earned. I don’t know how the State income tax works in PA so maybe that would give the Phillies a huge edge in negotiations. I believe Illinois is a heavy taxation state also. Then again in LA Harper could become a media megastar and make up for loss of income in taxes. This will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
southbeachbully
You really think ANY mlb player is going to be anywhere near the hoods where the violence takes place? I guarantee you that isn’t a factor.
Unfortunately, most of the violent crime is Black-on-Black or Latino-on-Latino (I don’t mean to imply it would be better if the violence was inflicted on any other race/ethnicity). But millionaires aren’t exposed to the urban violence other than watching it every night in the local news.
ASapsFables
Violent crime can occur virtually anywhere in this country and to anyone regardless of their race or wealth. Unfortunately, in the case of some hispanics, they have also become victims in their native countries.
southbeachbully
Most of the violent crimes tend to happen in the inner-city where it’s same race on same race. I wasn’t implying it was limited to minorities or certain cities.
MiamiWhiteSox
It’s obvious by the comments below yall have no idea what you’re talking about. When they were building Comiskey Park 2,they found bullet holes in the upper deck seats. The Robert Taylor Public housing hirises were across the Dan Ryan Expressway. I used to usher at Old Comiskey and after night games had to walk in front of those towers to catch the red line. Nothing ever happened to me. Those towers were torned down and the area partially genfrified. Wrigley is a dump in the largest outdoor frat party. The fans that attacked a 1st base coach on the field were Cub fans who had drunk during the day at Wrigley Field and went to Sox night game. Facts, also WSox the only team with enough cap space to sign 3 or 4 top FAs. I’d be more concerned with snow in October and April, than gun violence.
Yanks2
I’m confused. I thought Cashman was done with Cano-type contracts?
billysbballz
Cashman never gave cano that contract, so yes you are confused.
kiemurphy
Change the word Cano to Ellsbury or ARod and then continue to point of comment.
Gleyborday
Don’t say ellsbury lol
Jonthunder
Ellsbury? Is that some sort of cheese?
southbeachbully
I know for a fact that Cash was against the 2nd contract given to Arod. I think the Ells was a Randy Levine call too but I can’t find proof to back it up. I would say that all 8-10 year deals come with risk but the age of Harper and Manny means that if healthy, they should avoid dramatic dips in production.
southbeachbully
It’s bad luck like Candyman. Say his name 3x in a row and you’ll end up on the DL for the season.
T_Rexx2
I think he just means long term deals like the Cano deal.
Adam6710
A deal for Harper or Machado would be VERY different. Cano was 31 when he was a free agent. Machado and Harper are both 25.
Whoever signs them will be paying for their prime years, at least in terms of historical play patterns. Cano was already past his prime, statistically, in the first year of his deal, as was Ellsbury.
I don’t think either Machado or Harper will play at an elite level past 37, which is why Cashman is hesitant to go past that 10 year/300M mark.
southbeachbully
Yeah….that Ellsbury contract was a bad idea from the beginning. Aside from Ricky Henderson most players whose game is predicated on speed age poorly.
jekporkins
I got to wonder if Harper has outpriced himself a bit when he turned down that $300 million offer. The Yanks are pretty much out (or so they said), and I don’t see the Cubs swooping in after their last free agent debacles. The Dodgers, Phils and ChiSox are pretty much all that’s left. I think the Phils are going to go after Machado so that really leaves two teams. For the life of me I don’t’ see why Chicago is so set on spending yet, but all the power to them. The Dodgers probably need to get rid of Kemp and/or Puig to fit Harper, and they haven’t signed a $100 million player in years, let alone $300+ million.
knuck2
The White Sox are set to spend now because these players are available now and they have the payroll space to do it and the contracts will still be in effect when the prospects are ready. There’s no guarantee any of next year’s possible free agents will not sign extensions and not be available at all.
Coast1
It makes sense. Bryce Harper will still be younger in two years than most free agents that’ll be available then. Even if they pay Harper when they’re awful he’ll still be great when they’re ready to win. Their payroll is so low that adding another $40 million won’t be a big deal.
Coast1
The Phillies may prefer Machado but they may also sense that Machado will choose the Yankees. If Scott Boras calls the Phillies today and tells them Harper is ready to sign I assume they’ll sign him. The Phillies are viable for Harper until they sign Machado or acquire another corner outfielder.
I’d think that Scott Boras knows this and that he’ll want to get a deal done before the Phillies move on.
ChiSoxCity
The see the win/loss records for the simple answer to your question. The White Sox need an MVP-caliber player they can build around. The Dodgers and Yankees don’t.
inkstainedscribe
If the Phils miss both Harper and Machado, then the owner will spend stupidly on other FAs. It sounds like the line about coaching/management: If you listen to the fans, you’ll be sitting with them eventually.
Jonthunder
They already started lol.
billysbballz
Still think an opportunity exists to do a 3 way trade with Yankees, Dodgers, and Reds:
Yanks trade Stanton to Dodgers and Sonny Gray to the Reds.
Dodgers trade Kemp, Puig, Woods, and a prospect to both the Yankees and the Reds.
Reds send Scooter Gennett to the Yankees.
billysbballz
Oh forgot to add Reds send Homer Bailey to Dodgers.
Wolf Hoffmann
That is an awful trade for the Dodgers. The Dodgers get hosed in that scenario.
Slevin
Except Stanton has the NTC.
braves25
If the Dodgers wanted a high price FA why wouldn’t they just sign Harper? Then they keep that prospect you want them to give up and are able to still trade Puig to a team looking for an outfielder…
billysbballz
Harper will cost 40 mill per against cap. What does Stanton cost?????
braves25
Stanton is making $26 mil in 2019, not that it matters much when you are talking this much money. There isn’t a cap in baseball, so any team that signs Harper…or takes on Stanton’s contract for that matter are not concerned too much with the luxury tax.
restingmitchface
This is pretty bad from the Dodgers’ perspective.
Blue_Painted_Dreams_LA
Stop trying to ship Stanton out. The Dodgers wanted nothing to do with that contract, zero. It’s not happening. The package in general is pretty terrible for the Dodgers.
Tom
That’s pretty bad from every team’s perspective. I don’t see how anyone benefits. I especially liked the part where the “Dodgers trade Kemp, Puig, Woods, and a prospect to both the Yankees and Reds”…Um, how do you trade players to both teams? Do they switch mid-year?
billysbballz
Wtf are you talking about. 1 prospect to Yanks. – prospect to Reds. They are getting Giancarlo Stanton, a superstar in RF and giving up two contracts they really don’t want and shedding salary.
billysbballz
1 to reds.
Blue_Painted_Dreams_LA
They wanted nothing to do with the back end of the contract, and nothing has changed. Superstar or not they were never going to justify taking on a contract that extends to 39 y/o for a COF especially with no DH. Make no mistake, Dodgers only wanted Stanton on their terms. They can easy trade Puig/Wood without taking back significant salary and/or trading prospects. The whole concept behind Kemp/Bailey is the Dodgers potentially buying prospects not giving them up, unless you gather the Dodgers are taking on 8M of Bailey’s excess for nothing and a measly AAV savings. The whole thing makes just makes zero baseball sense when you talk about it from a baseball perspective. Individuals may make some sense, but this is more a fantasy baseball trade. To top it off I’m not getting the whole run Stanton out of town to be quite honest. Cashman made the splash knowing that’d be one contract with Stanton’s NTC that would basically be extremely difficult to move. Maybe if the Dodgers were desperate to make a splash it’d be different, but they aren’t and won’t. And their needs are starkly different than last years in which Stanton makes even less sense, even though he’s a superstar.
Adam6710
That is literally a bad deal for everyone. Good laugh though.
swanhenge
The delays are because no team is going to lay out a 10-year to anyone not named Mike Trout. They should plan on signing something like 3/140 and then hit FA again at age 29.
Wolff
Agreed. Machado and Harper could very possibly get much more money by signing a short-term deal-3 years?- then signing another long-term deal at 29 or 30. Also, they would be able to keep up with the better teams then(if the padres are finally good, they could go there)
Tom
It really baffles me how everyone assumes that while no team will give Harper a 10 year deal they’d give Trout one. Trout is a better player, no question. But even he can’t beat father time. And as hard as he plays the game he’s bound to break down at just the same rate as anyone else. Just because he’s been better doesn’t mean he’s going to last longer.
If a team had to make a decision right now on which player to give a 10 year free agent contract to, in this exact situation, Harper is the far better bet simply due to age. He’ll be 35 when his deal ends, where Trout—signing in 2 years for all those saving their pennies—will be 39. I’d bet Harper all day 27-34 over Trout (or any player) 35-39.
swanhenge
I dont disagree, but the fact is that Trout is head and shoulders above Harper as far as consistent production. That’s why he would be considered for the long term commitment.
southbeachbully
Doesn’t really matter. Arod is an all-time great and he aged poorly, Trout or not, any 10 year deal comes with risk. However, Trout is well worth the risk..
mike156
Given the number of big-money contracts that teams have been trying to off-load or swap for others, the market may be turning. Harper and Machado will still get paid enormous amounts of money but I wonder whether anyone is going to throw in an opt-out.
reflect
That Scott Boras quote makes no sense at all. Is he saying that Bryce Harper is a nurse with a thermometer? I’m so confused.
CursedRangers
Haha! I was thinking the same thing. His quotes get more and more bizarre every offseason.
knuck2
I think the point is that just because a team had a poor 2018 (i.e. was sick) if their future is bright (i.e. leaving the hospital) that matters more
nymetsking
I thought “Like the cost of health insurance, the price of Bryce is going to be going up.”
socalbum
Dodgers 3 year deal for Harper for $115MM (AAV $38.3MM) and Harper is a FA again at age 29. Or, 5 year deal with player opt out after 3 years and $191MM guarantee ($ 10MM signing bonus — year 1 and 2 at $33MM each, year 3 $35mm, year 4 & 5 $40MM each.
kbarr888
If Harper would accept anything like that……15 teams would join the bidding process.
refereemn77
Yep! Seriously, the Nats reportedly offered $309MM already, so everyone talking a 3 or 4 year deal is talking out of the ass!
knuck2
I think the point is that just because a team had a poor 2018 (i.e. was sick) if their future is bright (i.e. leaving the hospital) that matters more
alexgordonbeckham
Bryce Harper does more for a franchise like the White Sox as opposed to the Cubs and Dodgers, who are already popular and draw near sell-out crowds daily.
cardsgoingyard
The problem with him on the South Side is when the Sox are 20 under .500 by July, there will still only be 15,000-25,000 people in the stands.
sadosfan
Manny is meeting with the Phillies . What does that have to do with the Yankees. Just because he’s on the east coast they have to mention the Yankees? Why not say he might meet with the Mets or Boston or Atlanta or just say he might meet with other teams. Everyone has to mention the Yankees. I’m kind of sick of it.
AWANAFUQYA
I can see these guys going for shorter term and higher AAV. It might be the new way of doing things. Every thing changes and evolves. You could go for $30 mill for 10 or $40 mill for 5. Then sign again for similar $ if not more while you’re still young.
kodion
If they do what you suggest, I think your $$$ are way low.
AWANAFUQYA
Just spitballing. Probably closer to $50, but it’s so quiet. Everyone’s laying low. Seems like a shift is happening.
MetsYankeesRedSox
I can remember when my screen name triggered people.
Now MLBTR allows trash names like yours. This websites comment section has hit bottom.
AWANAFUQYA
Ha.
AWANAFUQYA
GOLD JERRY! GOLD!
Lint Licker
Welcome back- pness
Cat Mando
I don’t think the will go too short…more like 8 years with opt out and team opt out overrides ala Jake Arrieta. Something that allows a higher AAV than ZG got from the D-Backs and breaks Stanton’s record, something both BH and MM camps have expressed interest in. For instance……………
Phillies/Machado…a shorter term higher AAV…$20M signing bonus paid out
over the first 3 years….
$35M first 3 years…opt out w/team override that adds $5M/year next 3 years
$36M base years 4-6…. opt out end of year 6 w/team override that adds $5M/year next 2 years…years 7-8 $38M base..
club options years 9-10 $39M/per with $10M buyouts.
Total gauranteed without “overrides” and including buyouts $329M. With
“opt out overrides” $354M. With years 9 and 10 (unlikely) $412M
kodion
Something doesn’t add up …You’re suggesting only $125 M guaranteed?
Cat Mando
kodion
Total guaranteed without “overrides” and including buyouts $329M. If he is preforming well after year 3 and wants to opt-out the team can override by adding $5M/season for years 4-6…$5 on top of his base of $38M.
Same with opt out after year 6….if wanted team can override buy adding $5M more to the base of $39M for years 7-8.
Not sure how you got $125M
kodion
That’s all you are guaranteeing.
$20M signing bonus + 3 years @ $35M
Everything else is Options, no matter how you spin it, based on how you’ve explained it..
Cat Mando
Player opt out are not team options…all 8 years are considered guaranteed until a player opts out…as are the 2 buy outs at $10M each.
Cat Mando
A bit more clarity…from the CBA…
ARTICLE XXIII—Competitive Balance Tax…E. Determination of Salary…(5) Option Contracts…”the Contract Years following the Player Opt-Out shall be considered Guaranteed Years; provided however, that the Contract Years following the Player Opt-Out shall not be considered Guaranteed Years if the payment the Player is to receive if he opts out of the Contract is more than 50% of the sum of the Base Salaries in the Contract Years following the Player Opt-Out.
kodion
Thanks. Got it now.
Cat Mando
No Problem
AWANAFUQYA
Could be. I guess we’ll see. They won’t play for free. Didn’t mean to rhyme those 3. 🙂
McShohei
I hope neither of these arrogant players gets signed! $300-$400 million for a baseball player? Nobody should ever be earning that much money for playing a *&(* game, especially 2 guys who aren’t even the two best in their sport.
This league needs a salary cap bad so this kind of stuff doesn’t happen, but its too bad these cheap owners are just filling their pockets with revenue money and will seemingly never agree to one.
AWANAFUQYA
Unfortunately they get paid whatever someone thinks they are worth. There is no way we can say it’s too much or too little. I agree it sounds insane, but they get whatever someone is willing to pay. It’s their choice to pay them.
AWANAFUQYA
We live in a capitalist country. This is America to a T. Always been that way. Most likely always will be.
Birch
You’re so backwards it’s unbelievable. You complain the owners are filthy rich and just filling their pockets, but you want a salary cap? That takes money away from the players and allows the owners to keep more money. Baseball players, and other professional athletes in general, are vastly underpaid in most cases.
dcrising
If a team is willing to pay that amount, then that IS what they should be earning. Salary in any business is all based on what a company or team is willing to pay for your services. You may not agree that person’s worth that contract, but people who get paid to make those decisions obviously agree they are worth it.
Harper and Machado may not be THE best in the sport, but they’re definitely in the same room as anyone else. They arguably have the highest ceilings of anyone not named Trout.
The MLB doesn’t have a salary cap, but if they did, the “cheap owners” you referenced would actually make more. Profit = Revenue – Cost. If cost is variable and can be increased to any value (no salary cap), your profits are lower. If there’s a salary cap and your costs are capped, then your revenues can easily increase while your costs stay stagnant leading to more profits.
NeedsMoreTime
Ok… Where to start
1. We need a cap for “greedy owners”… You do realize a cap that reduces salaries for players and increase the profit for these owners… So…
2. “arrogant players” – yeah it’s real arrogant to capitalize on your highest earning years when your job pretty much vanishes before 40 years old.
3. There’s a false narrative of what a cap would do. You didn’t state it, but parody is often the reason. Take a look at the nba and tell me how the cap creates parody.
4. Guaranteed money + Salary Cap does not work… Again..see the NBA.
southbeachbully
I hate how teams are forced to spend money on non-superstar players. In the NBA there’s been years where the highest paid player wasn’t even a top 10 guy. Mike Conley is an example. If your the Sacramento kings and you’re team is mostly comprised of young guys you may have to overpay on a FA to reach the salary floor.
Marius
You do realize that this year alone Judge Judy made $47 million dollars. What people make is relative to what they bring in. I do agree though that teams have got to start spending money. Just like with the BAMTech thing. Teams all got around $50 million but just stuffed it in their pockets.
hozie007
Every team is different but…Harper was with the Nat’s and they had/have a pretty good squad and he didn’t get them over the top…..Machado was in the WS and didn’t get them over the top….so what’s the big deal with either player. It’s fun to talk about but in the end neither of them are going to “make” a team a WS contender (who already is close) by their mere presence.
wrigleywannabe
Harper is going to be one of the worst signings ever when he continues that sub 2 WAR he has had THREE times.
Machado is going to ruin any clubhouse he goes to. No one in Baltimore cared because they stunk.
Jonthunder
Or not.
southbeachbully
Harper had 1 season where he posted a WAR below 3 and that was in 2014 when he had a 1.6 in 100 games played.
Cat Mando
southbeachbully…..I would assume he is looking at BB Ref 2014, 16 & 18 ….1.1, 1.5, 1.3
baseball-reference.com/players/h/harpebr03.shtml
Vizionaire
white sox’s interest in harper may have something to do with ticket sales.
Jonthunder
Did the A-Rod signing help the Rangers at the gate? Or Stanton on the Marlins?
Has anyone other than crazy Boras looked into how big FAs impact the viewership of non-contenders?
It sure would help GMs and owners make better decisions.
ABCD
Big free agent signings do usually result in a surge of season ticket sales.
fba0017
Agree on both. Both teams signing them will have big regrets with 10 year deals.
cardsgoingyard
I think it’s hilarious when people call out Harper for “never getting the Nats to a WS.” How many WS has Trout been to? He’s only been in the playoffs, what, once? Give the “Harper hasn’t been to a WS” crap a rest. Harper is no Trout, but one guy can’t lead a team anywhere.
ASapsFables
Reading through all this seems to be favoring the White Sox for both Harper and Machado. Among the listed suitors, only they and the Phillies have zero payroll/luxury tax concerns. They are the only teams that could actually afford both players and engage in an all out bidding war for either.
In their favor versus the Phillies, the White Sox have less payroll obligations in the near term as well as an easier division in which to compete. The Phillies are about a year or so ahead in their rebuild and appear ready to be legitimate contenders in 2019 while the White Sox window probably opens in 2020. However, that could change quickly depending on these two free agents along with other moves that may transpire before opening day. Each team has been rumored prominently with other FA’s this winter as well as in additional trade talks after already consummating some deals earlier this offseason.
The smart bet would still be to take the field over any one team in the Harper and Machado sweepstakes but the odds do seem to be getting better for the White Sox each passing day.
dcrising
LOL – I’ve never heard the term “consummating” used anywhere other than in the bedroom.
Also, the Phillies were legit contenders last year and will be again this year. They led the East for most of the season until about a month to go. White Sox contention window is all based on Kopech’s recovery timeline. That guy is going to be a stud. Reminds me a lot of Strasburg when he was coming up.
ASapsFables
Always good to have some consummating going on in the bedroom! I’m a big fan of consuming there as well!
dimitrios in la
Starting to wonder if these guys get much past $200 mil. And the opt out clause in these cases will really help the team get out from under a scam.
restingmitchface
Opt-out clauses never help the team.
southbeachbully
Of course it can help the team. If the mandate is set by Boras that he MUST get a 10 year contract but it comes with opt outs then cool. The assumption is that if he’s outplaying his current contract and he opts out to get more annual or to extend it further then look at the scenario,
2019 (26 ), 2020 (27 ), 2022 (28 ),2023 ( 29) opts out in 2024 the let him walk and re-purpose the money elsewhere, The fact he’s opting out usually means he’s performing well. Take those 4 years of all-star production and avoid the inevitable declining years as he reaches his 30s.
If Stanton opted out in 2020 then I think Cashman might say “thanks for the 3 great years, see ya”.
Cat Mando
Opt-out only help a player who is preforming well and can get more $$ as a FA. How does it “help the team get out from under a scam”?
ChiSox_Fan
Unless he is motivated to play 3B, I say skip Machado. Machado doesn’t hustle either.
Tim A. good enough for Sox SS.
ASapsFables
I like Tim Anderson but if selling Manny Machado on the White Sox comes down to him playing his preferred position of SS over 3B I’d do it in a heartbeat. Anderson could be shifted to CF and replace Adam Engel until Luis Robert is ready in 2020 or 2021. Anderson could also be a potential centerpiece in a package trade for an impacting top of the rotation ace like Noah Syndergaard or maybe even catcher J.T. Realmuto. If Machado was amenable to playing 3B, Yoan Moncada might be a suitable substitute in those same trade discussions. Too much depth is a nice problem to have and can always be worked out internally or externally.
Bottom line: Machado, much like Bryce Harper, is among the best players in all of MLB. Each are just entering their prime years and make the utmost sense for the White Sox on the field and off. Adding him for just a boat load of dollars and Harper for a similar amount along with the loss of a second round draft pick and some international bonus money is a no-brainer. The team would gain instant credibility and become the talk of MLB in 2019 and beyond, a far cry from where they have been since at least 2008 and probably a lot further back than that.
allthesingledigitsgone
If the Yankees wanted to blow the budget they should sign both Harper and machado. Let machado play short until didi comes back then move him to third and move andujar to 1st
sascoach2003
If I’m the agent or player, I would look for a 6 or 7 year deal, at what I set as my baseline. I would even choose no opt out. This will allow me one more really good payday, especially since I’m banking on myself, and team in that 6-7 year window, and still puts me in a window where I still have marketability unless I just fall off a cliff. I believe a 6-7 year deal will be easier to sell, and stomach, than 10/400+ or some other insane number. A lot can happen in 10 years…
allthesingledigitsgone
Sign both move machado to 3rd when didi returns move adujar to 1st. Rotate 4 outfielders through dh
Jonthunder
I’ve been a proponent of this for a long time.
Jonthunder
Who could have predicted this FA unpredictability with Harper and Machado, two years ago?
Before the Stanton trade, the Yankees all but assured everyone that they were grabbing one of these two.
Now, there’s not a hint of surety.
DoJo
When the White Sox end up as the last team standing for Harper, expect to see more fantasy mystery teams. IMO, Boras and Harper will do everything they can to avoid that outcome. When the Harper negotiations drag on and on and on, you will know why–white sox. Harper likely will be willing to take a short term higher AAV if it is that or the White Sox.
Ron marker
Who gives a flying crap about both of them. Whatever foolish team overpays them. Neither is worth it. Time to quit making boras and other agents rich
NeedsMoreTime
This is exhausting as a Phillies fan. Don’t know how much longer I can waffle between 2 schools of thought on these two guys. I’ll rant that either
1. (if a team like the yanks sign one) Neither player is worth 10 years at 30 a year or more. Such a stupid signing… Will hamper them for years.
2. (Phillies sign either or both) Finally got the player(s) we need to push us into contebtion. It’s not my money.
Kennypowers999
Dodgers won’t get Harper, they will probably get a cheap catcher for one year. And maybe another arm in the bullpen. They won’t get kulber or Trevor. Freedman only has hard on for cheap and platoon players. He will never sign or take on a 10 year contract.
Balk
Boring
lefty58
If Harper decides the White Sox are his only option, he will insist on his first opt out be in July.
Luke1358
Ya know, maybe not a popular opinion yet but agents the like of Scot Boras are the biggest problem in baseball today. I mean the Nats offered 10 years 300 mil to Harper but that wasn’t good enough? All these agents really accomplish in the end is higher ticket prices for everyone that wants to see a game.
lefty58
Why are you blaming the agent over the player? Not trying to be snarky at all, just curious.
Begamin
Agents tell the player give advice on what contracts to accept.
JKB 2
Ticket prices are based upon supply and demand in the market not payroll. Owners will charge what the fans are willing to pay.
restingmitchface
Ticket prices are informed by broader market conditions (i.e. demand).
Also, not trying to single you out here, but I’ll just never understand the hand-wringing when millionaire players get paid by *billionaire* owners. It’s so weird to me.
Speak da Truth
Why ain’t the redsox included in Manny Machado sweepstakes? When they have a meeting also?
Would be worth signing him seeing as Bogey well be a free agent next year. Have him play 3rd until next year where we can let Bogey go. Imagine that line up then…Power!!