The Indians continue to explore trade scenarios involving their veteran players, including some three-team proposals involving Edwin Encarnacion, Yonder Alonso, and Yandy Diaz, Paul Hoynes of the Cleveland Plain Dealer reports. The three-team discussions are mostly about unloading salaries, which is why Corey Kluber and Trevor Bauer have “for the most part” not been involved in the multi-team talks, Hoynes notes. In general, Cleveland is exploring any and all possible options with their veteran players as the team looks to thread the needle between staying competitive in 2019 while still freeing up payroll space both for next season and in the future.
The Tribe was linked to Carlos Santana in trade rumors yesterday, and a reunion with their former first baseman would be possible if Cleveland was able to offload Encarnacion or Alonso in another trade (or potentially maybe even the same trade, if the Mariners were also involved in a three-team swap). Santana has already changed teams once this winter and continues to be a popular trade target given that the Mariners are another team looking to cut payroll. In the latest update, The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal tweets that Santana could possibly be traded over the next few days.
If Santana did return to Cleveland, some financial juggling would likely have to take place due to the money involved with all of the first basemen. Santana is owed $40MM over the next two seasons, while Encarnacion is owed $25MM through 2019 (a $20MM salary in 2019 and a $5MM buyout of a $20MM club option for 2020) and Alonso $8MM in 2019, plus a $9MM vesting option for 2020 based on plate appearances and a clean physical. In reports from earlier this week, Hoynes suggested that the controllable Diaz could be added to a deal involving one of these larger salaries in order to make the salary hit more palatable for another team.
Speaking of big contracts, Hoynes also notes that Cleveland has been “linked” to Padres first baseman/outfielder Wil Myers in trade rumors. That would be an even more surprising addition for the cost-conscious Tribe to make, and it would require even more salary-shifting given that Myers is owed $64MM through the 2022 season. It isn’t clear if the Indians were strongly pursuing Myers or just doing their due diligence in overall talks with the Padres. Hoynes mentions that the Tribe has interest in some of the MLB-ready young players in San Diego’s organization, though there has been “little headway” in those discussions.
There has also been “little interest” in Jason Kipnis as the Tribe tries to market the veteran second baseman/outfielder. Given that Kipnis has posted below-average hitting numbers in each of the last two seasons, it isn’t surprising that the Indians are struggling to find a trade partner, especially given the $17MM remaining on Kipnis’ contract.
I could really see the Yankees signing him. First!
1. Who are you talking about? There are 8 players mentioned in this article
2. Whoever you’re talking about can’t be signed as all 8 of these players are currently under contract.
3. Not a single person cares if you’re first.
yes yes and no.
Please do try to keep up with the board memes.
I think this is performance art?
Thank you
1. the entire article covers trade chatter.
2. if you read the article before responding to his message you would see this was all chatter in trades…not signing a free agent
3. I dont care to hear your response…
boom mic drop
How is this mic drop worthy? I’m not so sure you understand what a mic drop is.
lol
1. Boom
2. Mic
3. Drop
You stupid
Gordon the queen is dead
Don’t eat my cat, Gordon.
Xabial? Is that you?
Seattle isn’t looking to cut payroll as much as the Mariners are hoping to push out the window of contention to 2021 and 2022 (when Carlos Santana and other will no longer be under team control). The plan will likely result in a short-term payroll reduction.
The Yankees are going to sign everyone
If by Everyone you mean guys who will sign for 3 years or less and less than 50 million dollars. It’s the new “Yankee Way.”
Seriously, the Mariners aren’t trying to cut salary. They are moving veterans, often with cash, to get prospects. They literally are taking on salary offsets even. Please stop the false narrative.
Packaging Cano with Diaz and lessening the return they would have otherwise received is a salary-cutting move.
Instead of paying Robinson Cano $24 million in 2019 Seattle will pay Jay Bruce $14.5 million (including a $1.5 million installment of his signing bonus), Anthony Swarzak $8 million and Cano the first $5 million installment of the $20 million in cash.
In other words, the trade increased Seattle’s payroll for 2019 ($24 million for Cano to $27.5 million for Bruce, Swarzak and Cano).
Long term cash-saving, and I bet at least one of those guys is flipped.
They’re trying to open up payroll to be able to sign free agents in 2020-2022. So yeah cutting payroll for THEN. The article makes it seem like they’r just trying to generally cut costs as the primary goal, when in reality it’s more about positioning the team to compete in a few years.
That’s not what happened but nice try
I definitely can’t see the Indians being interested in Wil Myers without some high quality prospects included. Basically San Diego trading prospects for salary relief, and it doesn’t sound like the Padres are particularly interested in that idea.
You’re saying that Cleveland would trade a bag of balls straight up for Myers?
2.5 war in 300 at bats, isnt a salary relief player
It is when he’s owed $74m over the next 4 years and doesn’t have a position
Hunter Renfroe for Yandy Diaz
No.
Yeah that’s gonna be a no from me dog
Few questions:
If they trade Yandy,who plays 3B? Seems like Yandy is the type of affordable young player they’d look to keep at this stage.
Why on Earth would they trade cheaper and equally as effective Yonder or Edwin for Santana at a way bigger salary?
Here’s a real possible trade..
Puig & top prospects to Tribe.
Kluber to team X.
Dodgers get cheap role players/prospects but most importantly salary relief to go sign Harper.
If they trade Yandy then JRam plays 3B and Kipnis at 2B
These bad contracts are like hot potatoes. If they get passed around enough, their salaries will be small enough that most any team can take them on.
What would SEA pay down on Santana to gain some prospect depth? If at all.
And it should be said that Santana, EE and Myers are all awful contracts that force teams to eat dead money.
Carlos Santana isn’t a terrible contract. 2.0-3.0 WAR for $17M/yr for 2 years and a $500k buyout.. I doubt Seattle pays much down on that. He’s not worth it, but it’s not like you expect him to turn into a player who doesn’t help the team at all.
Edwin Encarnacion is pretty bad, but he’ll probably be 1.0-2.0 WAR next year for $20M and then a $5M buyout. It’s not crippling. He fills a short term roster need and the Indians would obviously sweeten the pot with a little salary relief or prospect filler.
Wil Myers is a terrible contract. 1.0-2.0 WAR for $3M is great this year, but the $20M for 3 following years is a an albatross for a player you might not even want on the 25 man at that point.
So youre saying g Myers won’t be a 2.5 war player? I disagree. If Will can stay healthy, he’ll be a 3+ war player. Padres always do this. They give up on players a year too early, or a year too late. I’d hate to see Will(our best offensive player) traded for salary relief and attach prospects. Unless they’re trying to sign Machado
Yes. It’s unlikely, in my opinon, Myers produces at a 2.5 WAR level. In 6 years of significant MLB level play, Myers has only produced 2.5 fWAR or higher once.
Myers contract “may” be an albatross…..or,he could play 150 games each of the next three seasons and it may not be.
Just like how Jason Heyward could play 162 games and hit .320.
Then it won’t be an albatross!!!
Ya, I hear ya. Unfortunately he’s had nothing but instability in his career. Traded 3 times, bounced around positions every single year. CF, RF, 1B, Lf, 3B. It’s a shame he was seen as a face of the franchise. He clearly is not that type of dude. But he could be a very good Left fielder moving forward where he has the best chance of staying healthy.
When was the third time he was traded?
My bad WCR, been on 3 teams✌️
WCR didn’t comment, I did.
Cause if Heyward couldn’t Myers can’t also…..gotcha.
The difference is that Myers has actually been pretty consistent when he “is” on the field.
Heyward pretty much sucked for a for a couple years.
Steamer projects a 2019 WAR of 2.5 for Carlos Santana, who is guaranteed $35 million over two years.
This year 2.5 fWAR was valued at about $20 million.
fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&…
Some things are overvalued.
And some things are undervalued.
No team in their right mind–meaning anyone outside of the biggest markets–uses that kind of value system. Good grief, man, stop peddling nonsense. What players make on the stupid auction block bears no resemblance to the value of players outside the small circle of idiot bidders. It’s dumb to even keep talking about it in such terms. No one boasts: “I’m a genuis! That guy who I paid $20 million to gave me 2.9 WAR! .0.4 of surplus value! Whoooeeee!”
Hoynes appears to be throwing spaghetti on the wall…..
Right, normally it’s stuck in his mustache.
Ain’t that the truth.
The ‘idea’ of Yandy Diaz panning out is appealing but if we’re being realistic, trade the 27 y/o project if it can mean a team eating the money owed EE or Kipnis.
How is he a project? He’s a major league ready hitter that just needs to adjust his launch angle. Keep him and play him every day.
Just adjust his launch angle? So some internet hitting coach can assess the situation and make it sound so easy, yet in his late 20s he’s still just a singles hitter with no pop in the bat? Sounds like a project to me…
His exit velocity was among the highest in baseball; he’s got the strength, he just needs to swing more underneath it, and that’s where a real hitting coach comes in. It’s pretty obvious.
If every hitter that needed to improve their approach was called a “project” there would be a lot of unfinished products in the game.
Sometimes teams get too creative in the offseason and that’s my concern with the Tribe. It has already been established they unloaded Yan Gomes too soon because now there are 6-8 teams in the market for a catcher and willing to pay a premium for one of Gomes’ caliber. I get searching the trade market for EE given his contract but I think they will have a really tough time finding any takers on Alonso. When you look at the 2nd half he had last year the concerns of regression start to definitely worry you. I’ll give the Indians until April before I give a final judgement on their offseason but they have A LOT to improve upon a very lackluster beginning for the front office.
Article fails to mention that Wil Myers contract for 2019 is only $5.5 mil.
This may explain Clevs. Interest as the large portion doesn’t kick in until 2020.
Yeah very true and if Myers can stay healthy and have a bounce back year they could flip him when he is set to earn more.
Kluber for Verdugo + others
Kipnis remains one of the more interesting bounce back candidates out there. An insanely unfortunate .258 BABIP, an 18 % K-rate, defensive versatility, in a contract year. The Tribe will have to pay it down, but I can see JK being a pretty shrewd move this winter. And, either way, you roll him down the stairs at the end of the year.
A Kluber/Kipnis combo (how’s that for alliteration) makes all the sense in the world, for a team like the Rays, e.g. Kluber’s contract is the best in MLB right now; 17M a year for 3 years, and YOU get to decide the last 2. Put him on top with Snell, move the other good young Rays ‘ pitchers down a slot, and they can actually make a run.
Finally. An intelligent baseball related comment. Agreed on all points made.
Or helps until some of the young arms are fully recovered from injuries.
I’d agree with this if it were last off-season. He basically followed up a bounce-back candidate from 2017 with mirrored numbers in 2018. His big problem has been too many flyballs (specifically too many popups).
Yeah, Kipnis has great defensive versatility, he plays second base and outfield equally poorly!. He is an offensive liability now. Typical Kipnis AB: Called strike one down the middle, Swinging strike two low and waaaaay outside. A couple other pitches and then swinging strike three. He is a hustler and a great guy but is no longer a good baseball player.
If Kipnis’s BABIP is “insanely unfortunate,” then I wonder how you characterize Carlos Santana’s entire career.
Unfortunately, if you’ve watched Kip hit in recent years, there’s no reason to believe he won’t be in a trough from here on out. One year too late trading the guy (a couple of years ago!), but I understand why, given his presence on the ball club at the time. But anyone could see that he wasn’t going to age well, and that that contract was a sword of Damocles.
I personally believe after watching Kipnis since Akron AA that he is a PED guy and his performance or lack thereof corresponds with his use. If correct, and we take the juice out of the equation, he is an average second baseman at best, definitely not an outfielder. The second base job belongs to Jose Ramirez, so they may just have to eat a substantial part of the Kip salary next year or DFA him. As for Yandy Diaz, he is no Matt Chapman at third, and he hits nothing but grounders, hard- but rollers not flyers. I think he will get a shot to open the season at third only if Yu Chang fails to wow in Spring. I think the Tribe has plenty of outfield potential between Brad Zimmer, Greg Allen, Daniel Johnson, Conner Marabell and Andrew Calica. Alex Verdugo rumored to come in a Dodger trade involving Kluber, lacks speed and power, and would add nothing to that mix. The Indians desperately need a lights out closer. If Kluber is traded, somebody with major 9th inning credentials needs to come back in return. First base? Santana no way. Nice guy and good clubhouse vibe but the skills not worth the money. I like Alonso at the price, but I think it’s time Bobby Bradley gets a shot… Indians bullpen sketchier than it’s been in a while. I don’t know if Karinchak, Kaminsky, Siri are ready to make the jump, but they should get a look. Anxious to see what Cody Anderson has post TJ surg…. The rotation of Bauer, Carrasco, Clevinger and Bieber is not going to be enough for 162
Shaking my head at so much of this comment. Kip on PEDs? Really?
And some of the players you’ve mentioned are actually available in today’s Rule 5 draft.
And I guess you forgot all about Brad Hand?
If CLE really wants a closer….I hear the Mets just got a guy who could be that in CLE. Obviously he would be the center piece plus prospects for Kluber. It meets a need for CLE and while it leaves a hole for the Mets, there are enough good BP arms available in free agency, they could find a decent alternative….likely older and pricier….but that is what a big market team would do. As for the Met prospects…..it’d be a bit tricky. The Mets have some high upside guys in the lower minors, but not much in the MLB ready in 2019/2020. I really wish they kept one of Kelenic & Dunn from the Cano trade…but that mediocre to poor deal is done already.
lol
The Mets made a bad deal but they got a guy they can trade for a 2 time Cy Young award winner on a 3-year team-friendly contract?
The drop in production is because of poor contact the past 2 seasons. It’s tough to get hits from popups and weak flyballs.
fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=9776&posit…
I’d agree with the defensive assessments; MOST of these multi-posistional guys aren’t really that good anywhere they play. Strikeouts? The 18% K-rate somewhat contradicts that.
Two questions (and I’m really asking folks who watch JK more than I do):
(1) Could the fly ball thing mean that he’s one of those for whom launch angle theology doesn’t work? Don’t get me wrong, it’s useful, just not for everybody.
(2) Could he just be one of those players you just never give a long term deal to? If he doesn’t improve over his past 2 years, he’s a Wal Mart greeter (if they have him). It’s amazing how SOME (not all) players get healthy when their paycheck (or career) is in jeopardy.
Again, I’m just askin’……..
Interesting, even provocative comments, but I’m not sure I subscribe to all your notions. Most of the everyday guys you cite as ready for a shot–Bradley, Chang, Marabell, Calica, Daniel Johnson et al–are nowhere near ready for the bright lights. And you left out Jordan Luplow, Tyler Naquin, and Oscar Mercado who probably are going to get a chance to claim jobs. You’re right about Verdugo–not much power or speed–but his floor looks to be Michael Brantley and he has an upside of this year’s Christian Yellich…how does a team like Cleveland pass on that?
I also don’t subscribe to the notion of needing a “proven closer.” What a waste of a good arm. We just need some guys who can get outs, regardless of inning.. I couldn’t care less what we call them. Having strict, fixed roles is ridiculous. I remind you that the so-called “hardest three outs in baseball” have been “closed” at virtually the same success rate as they were at the turn of the century (the NINETEENTH century!) when they didn’t even have closers. Only in recent history have we exalted the notion of closers and paid them absurd salaries and for what? Getting three outs with A LEAD! Honestly, how hard is that? You know what’s hard? Being the HITTER in that situation, not a pitcher. Gimme a break.
Tribe needs some backend arms, sure, but it’s easier finding guys for that role than play a position every day or start a game and go seven good innings. While I don’t see much coming up from the minors yet, we’ll kick the tires on a number of guys in the spring and find something. We generally do. The problem last year was the failure of so-called PROVEN guys, not the backbenchers.
Myers was worth 2.4WAR in 83 games last year. His contract looks bad because its backloaded hes been making peanuts but 2020 he will be expensive. Better to keep than trade
Trade him while he still has one cheap year left on his contract and there’s still a bit of false hope of him being perennial All Star remaining.
If they can move him without eating too much money im okay with it because Renfroe,Reyes and Cordero all need playing time.
Wait, the Tribe is looking at dealing a starting pitcher? These threads are popping up 3x a day anymore…
Myers and the Tribe’s choice of any Padre outfielder for Bauer. Franmil Reyes would probably thrive on the junior circuit