The offseason’s latest blockbuster trade doesn’t involve the exceptionally active Mariners nor any of the five teams in the hyper-aggressive National League East. Rather, both the Cardinals and Diamondbacks have announced that first baseman Paul Goldschmidt has been traded from Arizona to St. Louis in exchange for right-hander Luke Weaver, catcher Carson Kelly, minor league infielder Andy Young and a Competitive Balance Round B selection in next year’s draft.
Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch wrote earlier today that the Cardinals have indicated that they want to determine if there’s any momentum in any of their ongoing trade talks this week, heading into the Winter Meetings, noting that those talks included ongoing negotiations with the Diamondbacks regarding their first baseman and perennial MVP candidate.
Goldschmidt, 31, is heading into his final season of club control and stands to earn $14.5MM next season before reaching free agency next winter. The six-time All-Star rebounded from an awful start to the 2018 campaign to finish with a brilliant .290/.389/.533 line through 690 plate appearances.
The Cardinals have been well-known to be in the hunt for a middle-of-the-order bat for a second consecutive offseason, with a reported focus on corner infielders. The addition of Goldschmidt would presumably push Matt Carpenter to third base, with Paul DeJong and Kolten Wong currently lined up to hand shortstop and second base duties.
Last offseason, the Cards sought a similar addition and turned their focus to Marlins slugger Marcell Ozuna. However, a shoulder injury known to be bothering Ozuna at the time proved detrimental to the outfielder’s offensive production, and he finished the season with a fairly pedestrian .280/.325/.433 batting line and 23 home runs — a far cry from his 2017 slash of .312/.376/.548 and 37 homers. If Ozuna is able to bounce back, the Cards can trot out a lineup featuring Goldschmidt, Carpenter and Ozuna — a highly talented trio with potential to comprise one of the more imposing hearts of the order in the Majors.
For the D-backs, the motivation to trade Goldschmidt comes from the slugger’s limited club control, a bloated payroll that had been at franchise-record levels and a desire to restock a thin farm system. Goldschmidt already inked one club-friendly contract with the D-backs and, with the end of that contract in sight, it’s unlikely that he’d sign for anything less than market value this time around. To that end, Nick Piecoro of the Arizona Republic reports that the Diamondbacks did try to sign Goldschmidt to an extension before trading him but were unable to come to terms (Twitter link).
With the reality that Goldschmidt wouldn’t be signing a new contract firmly set in place, general manager Mike Hazen and his staff moved to acquire more in exchange for Goldschmidt than they’d have stood to gain by allowing him to play out his final season of club control and receive a qualifying offer. The return announced by the two clubs more than meets that description. Both Weaver and Kelly have big league experience and were considered to be among the game’s top 100 prospects before surfacing in the Majors. Young, meanwhile, posted strong numbers between Class-A Advanced and Double-A last season, and the Competitive Balance draft pick the D-backs are acquiring is currently slotted in at No. 78 overall (though draft compensation from qualified free agents could potentially alter the exact placement by a matter of a few slots).
Weaver will pitch the bulk of next season at just 25 years of age. A year ago at this time, Weaver looked like a lock for the Cards’ rotation for years to come. He’d posted a 3.88 ERA in 60 1/3 innings at the big league level in 2017, turning in brilliant marks of 10.7 K/9, 2.5 BB/9, 1.04 HR/9 and a 49.4 percent ground-ball rate. Weaver notched a 3.17 FIP, 2.93 xFIP and 3.29 SIERA in that time and appeared to be one of the National League’s most promising young arms.
The 2018 season, however, saw the former first-round pick take a step back. Weaver totaled 136 1/3 innings with 8.0 K/9, 3.6 BB/9, 1.25 HR/9 and a diminished 42.4 percent ground-ball rate. His FIP, xFIP and SIERA marks all hovered in the mid-4.00 range as his hard-hit rate spiked by more than 10 percent. Clearly, Weaver has some adjustments to make, but he’s controllable for another five seasons and, if all pans out well, he could give the Snakes a solid mid-rotation arm for the foreseeable future. He’s the second rotation piece the D-backs have added in as many days, following yesterday’s signing of right-hander Merrill Kelly to a two-year deal on the heels of his breakout in the Korea Baseball Organization.
Kelly, meanwhile, gives the D-backs their potential catcher of the future. The 24-year-old was touted as the heir-apparent to Yadier Molina in St. Louis but has yet to find much success in minimal big league time behind Molina. A former second-round pick, Kelly has batted just .154/.227/.188 in 131 plate appearances at the MLB level, though playing time has been hard to come by for him.
However, Kelly comes to the D-backs with six seasons of team control and a career .278/.373/.416 batting line in 755 plate appearances at the Triple-A level. He’s thrown out 32 percent of opposing base thieves in his minor league career and, according to Baseball Prospectus, has turned in very strong framing numbers and above-average blocking abilities throughout his minor league tenure.
As for Young, the 24-year-old turned in strong numbers last season — albeit against younger competition. In 503 PAs last year, he hit .289/.379/.479 with 21 homers, 13 doubles, three triples and four steals. A 37th-round pick in the 2016 draft, he’s shown quite a bit of versatility by playing second base, third base, shortstop and both outfield corners to this point in his professional career.
The draft pick further solidifies a nice return for Arizona. The No. 78 selection in the 2018 draft came with a $763K slot value — a number that should take an incremental step forward in 2019. The D-backs, then, will not only add a top 80 selection to their draft but an additional $775-800K to their overall draft pool next season.
It’s a steep price for the Cardinals to pay, even if Weaver and Kelly are likelier to become solid regulars than perennial All-Stars. A combined 11 years of control, a top-80 selection in next season’s draft a minor league utility player with solid to-date performances gives Arizona ample opportunity to recoup long-term value. The Cards, however, are dealing from positions of depth — particularly with regard to the starting rotation, where Weaver wasn’t even assured a spot in 2019 due to the glut of quality options the team has amassed. While the team has less depth behind the plate, Molina is signed at a premium rate through the 2020 season, meaning Kelly wouldn’t have been in line for regular at-bats until at least 2021. Beyond that, 2016 seventh-rounder Andrew Knizner has elevated his status in recent seasons and is now considered by MLB.com to be the organization’s No. 5 prospect.
It’s also possible that the Cards secure some long-term value out of this trade. They’ll presumably make their own attempt to hammer out a long-term contract with Goldschmidt and, should those efforts come up short as was the case in Arizona, they’ll be in position to recoup a compensatory pick in the 2020 draft by issuing a qualifying offer to Goldschmidt.
From here, the D-backs figure to shift their focus to finding a trade partner for right-hander Zack Greinke. Unlike Goldschmidt, the motivation to move Greinke will stem from a more financial standpoint, as the former AL Cy Young winner is owed a combined $104.5MM over the next three seasons. While the D-backs are reportedly on the hook for the pro-rated signing bonus on his contract even after a trade (per The Athletic’s Zach Buchanan), that sum only totals $9MM. An acquiring team could, in theory, spare the D-backs a whopping $97.5MM in future salary obligations, although it stands to reason that the D-backs would have to include some cash or take back a fairly notable salary as part of any Greinke deal.
John Gambadoro of Arizona Sports 98.7 FM tweeted that the two sides could be closing in on a trade. Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch added that there was “momentum” building in trade talks (Twitter link). Fancred’s Jon Heyman tweeted that Goldschmidt would be going to St. Louis.
Wow, watch out for the Cards.
Still we be 3rd place. Cubs, Brewers, Cardinals, Reds, Porates
He is a game changer. Unless the cubs overpay for Harper they may be in third. I think the Cards have the edge now. It’s time for the Brewers and Cubs to step up
They still need SPing but this is a great trade for them. Great start to their off season.
The Cardinals already have great starting pitching (even without Weaver), but they do need major bullpen upgrades before they can be considered on the same level as the Brewers or Cubs.
Imagine if the cards landed Harper
How do you figure? Cardinals have a wealth of young talented SP.
Now,sign SP Kikuchi and address the bullpen.
Yes this is a fantastic move by Cardinals especially if they can sign him long term. But it is not a roster on par with Cubs or Brewers yet. Step in the right direction though that’s for sure.
They did it for Heyward. I can’t see why they wouldn’t for Harper.
Lol no they don’t
Kikuchi will sign with a West Coast team. Dodgers?
Agree. Amazing move for moving a guy who woulda sat behind taxi for a few more yrs. 1 of many young control pitchers the cards have. And a 2b who I didn’t know
dummy
Syndergaarden cop is a freaking fantastic name
Cards and Cubs have the best rotations, brewers rotation is rough.
All three are pretty equal offensively
Cards have the worst bullpen.
I’d say cards are 3-4 wins worse than the cubs right now, and better than the brewers
It’s early. Give it a minute.
Agreed, gamechanger for sure. Glad to see him out of the NL West where he’s been a burden for the Dodgers…
???? Lester Hendricks Hamels darvish Quintana Rizzo Baez Bryant Contreras schwarber almora heyward strop morrow . I think they “stepped” up
You realize the money difference between Harper and Heyward? Your talking $350m perhaps.
Agreed on paper Cubs are the best team in the Central right now. But if the cardinals add bullpen help I think they will be in a pretty good place particularly if Reyes fulfills his potential.
Cubs had one good season in last 100+ years. Nobody will ever consider the cubs to be the team to beat. They had a fluke year and won it all, then crept back to irrelevance the very next year. Cub fans keep acting like you’re some powerhouse team. It’s laughable at best
Can’t argue with that . If goldschmidt signed extension I like more for cards
One more then choking dodgers . Heck the better go spend a billion dollars to be first place losers
Who peed on your lawn? What a crybaby man! “Crept back to irrelevance” the next year? By going to their 3rd straight NLCS? And having a 2018 season in which quite literally every thing that could go wrong did go wrong and still end up with 95 wins?
Were you even alive the last time the Dodgers won the World Series? Get a clue dude!
Cuz they still have Heyward.
For sure. They only have a .577 winning percentage and 2 playoff appearances in the 2 years since they won. Cubs who?
The Cardinals are better than the Brewers. You’re experiencing recency bias.
No kidding. He was always crushing the Giants too. He had Bum’s number last year. Dude can play.
I would take one world series win over back to back world series choke jobs like the Dodgers.
Best pitching between the Cubs, Brewers and
Cardinals wins the division. Imagine that, a traditional view…
Pretty much exactly this… If Cubs SP and bullpen both hold up, same for Cards.. Brewers need help again, difficult to see how Cards pen can much worse then last season.
Cards have more work to do still though.
Cubs need an ace to get over the hump. Their team is still set up to win tons of regular season games, but they will be bounced in the playoffs again if they don’t try to get Syndergard
Cubs spewed cookies by signing Darvish last year and it has handicapped them. Just an absolutely horrible decision that looked bad even when it was simply rumored to be made.
Maybe it’s the Homer glasses but I think you’re selling the Brewers short. If Burnes or woodruff can do what they did in the second half last year the rotation is instantly better. Biggest question mark to me is 2b. They need to get a second baseman this off season, hernan Perez cant be the everyday guy if this team wants to repeat as division champs
Um hitting and fielding kinda important
Best of luck to that expansion Porates team.
Pottsbergh Porates
To answer your question, 2018. They won the Wild Card game against the Oakland Athletics, before being beaten by the eventual world champs. The previous year they won the ALDS in a surprise upset after defeating the Twins in the Wild Card Game. In 2012 they won the AL East, and beat the Orioles in the ALDS. In 2011 they won the division; in 2010 they won the ALDS over the Twins before losing to the Rangers in the ALCS.
The last time they won a World Series was 2009.
That’s more recently than the Rangers, Indians, Padres, Nationals, Mariners, Pirates, Orioles, Tigers, Mets, Dodgers, A’s, Reds, Twins, Rockies, Blue Jays, Rays, Braves, Diamondbacks, Angels, Marlins, White Sox, and Phillies.
To mock the Yankees for not having won since 2009 is to belittle all of those teams who would have loved to have won as recently as the Yanks have.
It’s still Cubs-Cardinals-Brewers. Brewers got a little too lucky with a middling at best rotation and a bullpen that was a little bit more lights out than can be sustained.
Feels like ARZ got ripped on this deal. You just traded the best or 2nd best 1st baseman in the mlb and got what exactly in return? Yes I know hes a rental, but seems like they could’ve gotten more for him.
From who? How many contending teams need a 1Bman or can move their current player to another position? Only the Mets come to mind after Philly’s trade with Seattle.
Meant to also add Washington with the Mets.
Expect Goldie to sign an extension before free agency.
Never expect that in modern baseball. There’s so many big spending teams these days he’d be nuts not to take his chances in free agency
No, you always expect the player to go to free agency
I got the Reds finishing 3rd… Cards/Pirates a toss up for last place.
Mikolas, Goldy, Ozuna, Wacha….all free agents at the end of the season. Yadi probably retires.
So you absolutely, 100%, NEED TO win it this year…
which won’t happen if you don’t make the playoffs.
trading the future so you can maybe make a WC one game playoff scenario is delusional…and the fans support of this obvious “flailing” is also delusional
Cards just getting started while the cubs begin to sink the juice man. Are you related to OJ?
Reds very stealthily put up a Top 10 mlb offensive squad. If they get pitching theyll surprise some people…they let Billy Hamilton and his weak obp walk…have Nick Senzel on the way. They could hit .500 and be trouble soon
So many things have to go right for the Reds to contend in that division. Losing Scooter next year will hurt that offense, Joey Votto can’t stay great forever and Senzel isn’t guaranteed to be a stud or even average.
None of these guys were going to play a part in the Cardinals’ future.
Last place wont be a toss up, cubs always claim that spot.
Goldy will sign with the Cards, Ozuna can walk and so can Wacha,
Hudson
Reyes
Gomber
Pondeleon
Gant
Martinez
Flaherty
Bader
O’Neill
Munoz
Max Shrock
Kitzner
Williams
Garcia………….
I could go on and on, we have one of the best young players in all of baseball.
Oh and Yadi has at least 2 more years in him
“Goldy will sign with the Cards, Ozuna can walk and so can Wacha,”
What is my future wife’s name and how and when will I die?
I like the deal. It’s fairly high, but not ridiculous, even if he’s just a 1-year rental. And, if things work out, they can see how things play out with Ozuna.
So, if Carp is headed to 3rd, Gyorko could be part of a trade package? To the Tribe for one of its starters??
Gyroko is worthless. He’s not the kind of player you base a trade package around, he’s a throw-in to get him off their roster. He certainly won’t get you anything close to a serviceable starter.
He didn’t say headline a package. He said be a part of a package.
What i don’t understand is, why he thought/thinks the Cards need to go after a starting pitcher.
Brewers, yes. Cubbies over-rated.
Never know about those pesky Porates.
The Cardinals came from nowhere and made a strong run. I thought they had a chance to take the division up until the last 10 days of the season.
Paul Goldschmidt not only improves the offense, he improves the defense. They need to get some LH pitchers but, this is a team to recon with..
We?
Until cards get rid of Wong, Flowler and carp, their not making playoffs.
Yeah, lets get rid of one of the best defensive players up the middle who was hitting extremely well after the cards made some coaching changes. Also lets get rid of a top 10 mvp player from 2018. Fowler can rebound. but I will give you that. Wong and Carp are needed. Get a clue.
Cubs and Brewers don’t have the pitching that the Cards have, and now, they have a better line up.
Now watch for their ace…. wainwright? They’ll be in third still.
Their ace was Mikolas. Did you watch baseball last year? He was one of the best pitchers in the National League.
I don’t know how anyone can hit off that guy. Undoubtedly the most underrated pitcher of the NL last year.
Not just Mikolas but Martinez as well, not to mention what Wacha and Flaherty can do.
Love to see Martinez and Mikolas.. Nvm Reyes and Wacha back from injury will help.
Can and will are a world apart.
On top of that, do not forget that the Cardinals also have Hudson, PonceDeleion and Gomber all fighting for bullpen rolls, unless needed as a starter, and Hicks was drafted as a starter. Also, they have Kruczynski coming up fast. On top of that, Reyes should be ready mid season.
Our? What position do you play? Are you the owner or GM? #FACTS
SoCalBrave, Didn’t he lead the league in hits allowed last year? I am pretty sure he had quite a bit of luck on his side. He is a solid pitcher but his k/9 is less than 7 and he gives up a ton of hits. What saves him is the fact that he doesn’t walk anybody. He had a season similar to Ivan Nova when he was first traded to the Pirates. If he starts giving up a few more walks then he will project similarly to Nova today. He is a solid #3/#4 pitcher in the National League and that is about it. That is nothing to sneeze at especially at his salary but the Cards need Martinez to be at 100% next year and for Reyes to stop getting injured. He has all of the tools to be the next ace for the Cardinals and I would like to see him take the next step. If those 2 can stay healthy all year and Mikolas can repeat his performance of 2018 then the Cards will be the team to beat in the Central. The Cubs seem to have all the talent to be a juggernaut but they seem to lack chemistry. Epstein didn’t learn from the mistakes he made the last couple of years he was in Boston. If the Dodgers hadn’t bailed them out they would have been stuck in mediocrity for years after he left. He needs to bring in Girardi next year and let some of these contracts expire before he signs anymore big dollar free agents. My guess is that he leaves to build another team in a year or two and leaves his successor a giant mess once again. I was actually expecting him to do it this year with the Giants having their opening.
If you’re a fan, it is common to say us (our, etc).
Wainwright hasn’t been the ace for the Cardinals in a long time.
My gut tells me they sign SP Kikuchi. Screams of a Cardinal move.
Kikuchi imo will go to a west coast team. There are strong Japanese communities in SF, LA, SEA. I think it’s one of those 3 that he goes to, all three of those teams have a need for a starter.
They don’t need SP Kikuchi. They need bullpen help.
I’ve only found 2 players in Oh and Taguchi that the Cardinals have signed. Oh got 1 year +team option. Kikuchi will be a lot more than that. How does it scream Cardinals deal? Honestly just curious, not trying to be sarcastic or rude.
Only if they can sign him for 500,000
Flaherty, Mikolas, Martinez, Reyes, Wacha
Flaherty? Mikolas? hater alert
Waino is not even necessarily a starter this year.
Rotation starts with Mikolas and Martinez. Wacha maybe third? Reyes for sure in there if he bounces back from injury.
Reyes is not a “for sure” the moment you throw out an “if”. That’s called a “possibly.”
1 thing.
Martinez
Mikolas
Flaherty
Says it all body !!
Wow, cards should have shipped Wong
trade will only be worth it if he signs an extension as for Harper there is no way the Cardinals are signing him there best bet would have been Donaldson to add another bat but as usual Mo fell asleep and got outbid by the Braves
How did he fall asleep? Donaldson has history with Braves new GM. The braves GM told everyone his number 1 priority was JD. 1 yr 23 million is a steep price. If you signed JD then there is no Goldy. Get a clue.
Wouldn’t this trade be worth it if the Cards win the World Series, regardless of whether or not Goldy stays?
go get him Mo
now trade fowler’s bad contract for wade Davis bad contract. sign Harper.
Lol
Fowler will never be in Colorado again. Besides Davis’s contract is not NEARLY as bad as Fowler’s.
Fowler would have to wave his NTC and still would make no sense for the Rockies. If you’re talking bad contract for bad contract you’re more so talking Desmond/Fowler. But Fowler’s not going to CO. Either way CO would still have to overpay to address their pen.
Good job Cashman, another player you should have been on. Instead we get stuck with Luke Voit who will be a bust
Where’s xabials Harper to 1st idea.
The brass is saying that too, he’s not alone.
You guys want everyone
No I don’t want everyone. But Goldschmidt is the one they should have seriously considered. Because it has been years since the Yankees had a real 1st basemen. Voit and Bird aren’t the answers and huge questions marks. Voit cant play defense at all. Bird can play some D but can’t hit at all for the past 2 years.
So sorry that I valued a 1st basemen more than others
Who said that they did not seriously consider it? Only 1 team ends up with a player. Wow it wasn’t the Yankees. Yeesh.
We dont want everyone, we just DON’T want the crap pitchers that do nothing for us, that Cashman gets from Filenes Basement, or head cases that cannot pitch in NY
EVERYONE wants the best for their team. there is no denying it, you would all be lying to yourselves.
That’s because the Yanks are IN on everyone. They go for it spend the money and are competitive every year period, every single year.
As a Red Sox fan, I always have the Yankees in front of us or right there in our rear-view mirror.
ok paranoid Sox person
Luke Voit, the future Hall of Famer?
Nice try.
You have to come up in the Yankees system or get traded into the farm to earn that tag.
There’s a larger preponderance of dopes making fun of Yankees fans than there are Yankees fans worth making fun of. The irony is beautiful and an absolute pleasure to watch.
srechter
Yeah, I’m kinda loving it too
Or maybe they’ve cleaned up the fanbase?
I think Cashman knows what he’s doing more than you do
yanks, Nyy fan here,
The HOT STOVE, MLB, omg, lol. were indirectly mocking the three pitchers Trashman
has on his radar.. 1 is the worst, LANCE LYN, 1 is good, Nate, And the 3rd they don’t
have a clue why they didn’t sign HAPP YET, GEEZE LOUISE
lol
Everything is about da Yankees.
Entitled, spoiled-rotten fans that know less about the sport of baseball then just about any other fanbase in MLB.
You’re slightly off base there bro.
bro?
All I read here from Yankee fans – even under articles like this that have nothing to do with da Yankees – is that they should sign every shiny free agent, and acquire every big name player available in trade for their garbage, which other teams should be grateful to accept because…..
Those garbage rejects once played for DA Y A N K E E S !
bro
Brother.
Or fellow baseball fan,
Or fellow man,
Or dude,
Or do you prefer sis?
Well Samuel, We defend our team against the jealous
bitter fans
They need pitching not a 1st baseman no matter how much Voit/Bird sucks
If the Yankees get a 1B, he’ll need to bat LH. The lineup is loaded with RH sluggers.
I wouldn’t want to match this deal for a one year player. Every team would be better with goldy, but few should really sacrifice the pieces for one year of him.
what did the cardinals really give up? I have always liked Weaver but he’s never shown what he really is. I’m not positive cut wasn’t Kelly bypassed when they needed to replace Molina last year? so what does that say about what the organization thinks about him? I know nothing about the inf so it’s not like they gave up everything. it’s a good trade for both. Kelly has always been a good prospect now he has to show he’s a player.
The Cards have a gluten of pitching. Weaver was’t garanteed a spot in the rotation, the Cards have soured on Kelly. Cards are still in on Harper and this signing might be an enticement. Add Britton and the Red Birds are contenders!
Weaver can only throw two pitches, I think they were a little burned out in getting him to learn a third. It was a major talking point about Weaver last year. So not really a huge loss considering the other pieces Cards have, I was worried it was Reyes
Glut, damn autocorrect.
This is a steal for the Cardinals. 1 year of one of the best hitters in MLB for multiple years of team control for a back up Catcher, a potential number 5 SP, and a 24 year old lottery ticket playing in A ball.,
Plus Goldschmidt for only $14.5 million when he would get over $30 mill per season in free agency. There is HUGE value there as well.
As a Cubs fan, there is a real possibility the Cubs finish 3rd in NL Central in 2019 if they do not address their offense.
There are 7 players in the MLB set to make $30M+ this year (not including the potential contracts of Harper/Machado). There is maybe a 1% chance a front office would be stupid enough to pay a 31 year old first baseman over $30M per season in free agency these days.
That being said, he’s an excellent player.
It is not a stretch to think several teams would pay $30 million for Goldschmidt on a one year deal at age 31, as opposed to the $14.5 million he will be paid on his remaining year.
Note that I understand that Goldschmidt will not sign a one year deal in free agency.
Yankees fans. Give em gold they now want platinum. And fans won’t be happy until the AL all star team has 9 Yanks on the field. Most spoiled in all of sports.
The Yankees didn’t even win there division this year there far from spoiled. With Hal driving they won’t sign anyone
What makes you think Voit will bust? He was on pace for 78 HRs. A 50% regression and he still hits over 30. I’m not saying this guy is a future hall of gamer but to say he’s a bust only proves you didn’t watch any of the games.
Yankee fans like you irk me. Cashman and the Yanks have NEVER shied away from spending or trading for major stars. However, you literally can not have $20 mil players at every position. 1B isn’t a priority and they have Voit.
Also, some of you fans attitude towards a young player not on a top 100 list are so silly. Plenty of mlb all-stars have failed to make a top 100 list. It’s as stupid to predict Voit will be a bust as it is stupid to expect him to hit 60 homeruns next year. But if you paid attention, there’s nothing in his history that suggests he couldn’t be a solid .260/,340 25-30 hr guy. Ageism has run a muck Voit is only months older than Judge. He was blocked by several 1b. He played 4 years of college (i believe) and was drafted at age 22 the same year as Judge. His career numbers suggest he might be legit. .288/.370/.459 in 4 years in the minors for the team he was drafted by doesn’t suggest journey man player who took years to get it right. If he was drafted by the Yanks you “yankee fans” would be screaming he’s the second coming of Babe Ruth. So stupid. I see why we garner so much hate. Voit played well. He deserves a shot. Cashman said his team had their eyes on Voit for 2 seasons. They may not have expected him to hit 15 hrs in 40 games but they absolutely loved his bat and that’s why they acquired him.
Yanks have traded away 10-15 prospects in the last 2 years. With one or two LEGIT top 50 prospects and glaring rotation needs it would’ve been absolutely STUPID to spend one or more on Goldschmidt, another right handed hitter. Stop thinking the Yanks need to have every star on the market!!!
Now…since this is a Cardinals/Dbacks trade, let me say, good job Cardinals. Not sure. Not a super return but they did get a solid pitcher with some upside with 5 years of control and a decent prospect. Good job..
I’m a Yankees fan and he irked me as well.
Cashman wasn’t going to give up Andujar for Goldy, and they didn’t have players available to top this trade!
I don’t think it’s a question of “could he beat that offer” but “should he commit those resources to acquire a RH 1B”? With a need for 2 starters (Paxton being one of them), a middle inf, bullpen arms and a LF then the answer is no, especially considering it’s a 1 year rental and you have an internal option that had measures of success last year. Even if Voit is a flop we have enough RH offense..
relax do u really think your yanks are done shopping
that’s a dumb thing. we should focus on pitchers not hitters.
Astros are sitting on their hands.
It’s not like they won’t still be one of the best teams. They’ll be significantly better with just having healthier Altuve and Correa
What else is new? Lunhow thinks our team is fine the way it is.
Just don’t give up Tyler O’Neill, Nolan Gorman, Elehuris Montero, Dylan Carlson, Jhon Torres, or Malcom Nunez and I’ll be happy.
You trading for Justin smoak then?
Look at the junk we gave up for Goldschmidt. None will pan out for Arizona. Maybe the draft pick.
Thank you says a Dodgers fan.
Weaver’s gone, I’ll bet.
I hope Greinke is included somehow, or that a deal for Greinke can still be made.
Can’t stand Greinke! Not that good and way overpriced!
I’ll give you overpriced but how is 200+ IP with a sub-3.5 ERA year-in and year-out “not that good?”
Greinke, if he doesn’t fall apart this year will be in the HOF.
Abuse he doesn’t know baseball. He’s probably the guy that runs around saying teams and people suck when their good. You know the 6 year old in a mans body.
Oneil is in the deal. Count on it.
I counted, he isn’t in it.
Very glad to wrong.
You won’t be happy
Weaver and Kelly are supposedly the main pieces
They’re (stros) now in the position to overpay for Pollock.
Papa fraunch, you were right! I’m pumped! Maybe that will keep people from speaking as if they know everything on here. So funny seeing the people who thought your comment was absurd, and then were wrong themselves.
Honestly, you’re list would be very similar to mine, too. Especially O’Neill, Gorman, Montero and Torres.
If you can’t sign stars, trade for them. Hope they extend him. Always loved the willingness to spend despite “small market”
Define small market.
They get picks in the competitive balance draft, which to my knowledge’s given to small market.
But, even if the competitive balance draft did not exist my definition: “They’re the Packers and Spurs of MLB; their history and brand exceeds the limits of the market they play in.
Go easy on me 3rdSl
“Small Market” in regard to St.Louis is a joke. They have an enormous fan base, as evidenced by the fact that they have more radio affiliates than any other team. They are always in the top 6-10 in revenue.
Well there are trailer parks in every city….that might explain the radio affiliates
Small market is in regards to the number of possible fans in an area, not the total amount. St. Louis doesn’t have any other major sports teams (hockey if you consider that major, but nowhere near nfl and nba) pulling fans away and the tradition is huge, so the percentage of available fans is very large relative to other markets. It’s a lot like Green Bay and the Packers.
“If you can’t sign stars, trade for them” thank you for commenting future mlbtr writer
For those who didnt understand what was implied, or simple trolls like our friend Harry:
Offered Pujols: 10 yrs 210 million (30m deferred)
Offered Heyward: around $200 million
Offered Price: $180 million
Cardinals are a unique case and franchise which I respect a lot. If you cant buy ‘em, trade for ‘em.
Noooooooooo!!!
My reaction was a little more rated r
Mine was mostly ‘meh’ even as a Cubs fan. I don’t think he really changes the balance of power and the Cardinals are gonna burn some pretty good prospects to get him
Turns out they didn’t really burn much.
Still not all that upset. Cubs line up with a healthy Bryant and no Chili Davis is still better. And I’m pretty sure Goldy’s gonna be one-and-done in STL
Nope not at all!
Chili Davis is a darn good hitting coach. He got a bad rap for his one year in Chicago.
Says fans of every team making a trade for prospects.
Negative on trading Gyroko. He would make for a perfect platoon option and late inning defensive replacement. Carp would have a better chance of staying healthy with 450 ABs.
Yah, because Chili Davis was the issue, not just a scapegoat for an underperforming team.
Being called delusional by anyone who thinks the Cardinals are gonna win a bidding war for anybody is kind of amusing in and of itself…
I want Goldy on my team.
Make the Cardinals your team and your wish comes true.
Incarcerated Bob was right!
They should give him credit.
he was. great work for an inmate.
He’s the plug.
Thank goodness get this man out of the NL west. The man is a dodger killer.
This man is a every team killer
Well how ‘bout that? This could be exciting. Hopefully they could lock him up long term if this goes through.
Might as well make it a mega deal- Greinke- goldschmidt
That would water down the return because of Greinke’s contract. This sucks but it was inevitable.
I don’t think it would water down the deal. Greinke’s not really underwater on his deal. Might not add much to get him, but I don’t think it would lessen what you give for Goldy.
Chill out, a-hole. it’s not a salary dump if the guy is worth his salary. There may not be surplus value on Greinke’s deal but he’s getting paid roughly market value. There’s probably 5 or more teams who would gladly take Greinke’s contract if the D’backs just wanted it off their books.
Cano =/= Greinke.
Maybe you’ll understand if I spell it out a little more for you.
Let’s say Edwin Diaz has a value of 10. That means the Mets have to give Seattle value equal to 10 to get Diaz. However, Cano is paid so much more than he’s worth, that Cano’s value is -5. Now, for the Mets to get Diaz and Cano, they have to give Seattle value equal to 5. Because 10 + -5 = 5.
You with me?
Now, let’s say Goldschmidt is worth 10. Cards have to give up value equal to 10. Greinke has a value of 0 because his contract is basically equal to his worth. To get Goldschmidt and Greinke together, they STILL have to give up value equal to 10. Because 10 + 0 = 10. You see?
Now, maybe Greinke is worth 1 and the Cards have to kick in a little more, or maybe he’s worth -1 and the Cards kick in slightly less, but he’s worth a lot more than Cano, so take your apples and oranges comparison and call someone else a dummy.
Well this should solidify the notion that the Diamondbacks are moving into a rebuild.
Maybe teams will take a lesson from AZ. Two years from now it will be Washington. Although I’m a Sox fan, I have much respect for Cashman. How much money does someone really need? If Corbin really wanted to pitch in NY, the press conference would be in the Bronx. When will teams learn? Even big money teams will eventually get hurt. The Sox had the Price contract on the books and refused last year to bid against themselves for JDM who then chose the deal with the opt out. If he’s extended it likely will be one year at a time for big bucks.
Weren’t the Yankees about $40 million less than the Nationals? Nobody in their right mind would turn down $40 million
Just because they moved one guy with one year left on his contract doesn’t necessarily mean a full rebuild.
A trade and Dipoto’s not involved? Woah
I heard he was an advisor.
Offered his input I’m sure
And, next offseason he’ll get an 8-year $200Million contract with some team who will regret it after 3 or 4 years.
Alike Hosmer lol, other regrettable deals are Jordan Zimmerman Yu Darvish Patrick Corbin and Zack Greinke
Darvish is one year into the deal, and was hurt. A bit early to call it regrettable if he can stay healthy. Heyward on the other hand…
Agreed, the Heyward contract killed the Cubs payroll and totally blocks a realistic addition of Harper to their outfield. Most overpriced player in the game
Stop. Corbin hasn’t thrown an inning yet and you already call it regrettable? That just shows you’re bum hurt. And Goldy is a superstar. He doesn’t belong in a group with those other players.
It will not be the Cardinals if it’s that many years. They will settle on the compensation draft pick if he leaves.
hey if its Arizona we may be able to pull trade off without including any top prospects.
Technically true only because Weaver and Kelly have both exhausted their rookie eligibility.
They could still have had Pujols
/s
This stinks. I wanted to see him remain a Diamondback for life.
Whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!
That’s all.
Big move for the Cardinals
Source?
uh…this article
/s come on guy
They’re still not good enough to make the playoffs.
Offseason’s still not over. Also, you’re wrong.
Bet you he really wishes he had a no-trade clause right about now…lol
Hell,that’s San Diego’s team motto. Still Not Good Enough. Nice pickup in Hosmer.
Add up Harper’s last 3 season WAR totals….
and now add Hosmer’s last 3 season WAR totals….
Post the results here:
Have you been to a beach in SD in the summer?? Everybody wants to play here.
Add up the last 4 and tell me what you get.
He had one good season. League made adjustments.end of story.
Bet hes glad hes not a padre right about now
Incorrect
They are good enough to win it all OJ juice
I’m gonna miss ya Goldy, but it was time. We’re moving in a new direction unfortunately. Thanks for everything
Reyes and O’Neil and it’s even
Even if you’re just joking, that’d be an overpay for a first basemen with 1 season of control left
Big move for the Cards. He was a big part of the D backs, I know the fans have to be hurting.
Goldy and Ozuna could be a very dangerous combo!!!
Both in walk years, unless they already agreed to an extension with Goldy.
Return: Luke Weaver, catcher Carson Kelly, infielder Andrew Young and a 2019 Competitive Balance Round B draft pick
Nice move by the Cards. An elite hitter for sure. I thought it would have been a better move for the Yankees to have added Goldy than to sign Harper or maybe even Machado.
Well then. Does this mean the Snakes are selling?
No, they just traded their best player which obviously shows they are trying to win right?
Weaver, Kelly, Young and a draft pick
twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1070439694444453891
If the Dbacks are tanking…. and the padres remain tanking….. and the Rockies don’t improve… that leaves room for Farhan to strike…. Giants will be dark horse contenders next year.
Not a chance!
Lol. Giants are in for a rebuild. Or at least they should be unless they wanna have more seasons like 2018.
That just means there will be 1 NL west playoff team next year
I trust that Zaidi will make smart, under-the -radar moves to keep the Giants from a full rebuild. Theyre going to do a Pirates like retool, trade Will Smith and Madison Bumgarner for impact ML prospects, and likely win around 75-80 games next year. If things go well, they are a WC contender. Just watch.
Then again, everyone thought the Nats would run away with the NL East this past season.
I say two, rockies and dodgers are both pretty good. Although I guess NL wild card is really hard to predict this year. I do agree that the Giants can’t make it but I’m not upset about it. Come on farhan, trade bumgarner.
Of course you go for the safe pick. How’d that work out last year? Everyone predicted Cubs-Nats-Dodgers. 2/3 of that was wrong, the Dodgers were a game from not winning their division. If you ask me, it’s going to be a wild year next year. I believe Zaidi will try and improve the Giants for the long term, and acquire some prospects near the ML level to support the team in 2019. I think Harper is a possibility, as is Eovaldi and/or Kikuchi.
If Bobby Evans was still in charge they would probably do something stupid like trade for some more old expensive guys and try to trick the fan base into thinking they have a legit chance at contending because the division is weak. Hopefully Zaidi is smarter than that.
Of course they will, young padawan.
All due respect, most delusional Giants’ fan here.
Believe most are starting to accept the inevitable rebuild, and grateful for witnessing 3 championshipss in a short time, many fans don’t get to witness in their lifetimes’
Giants are back in the WS by 2020. Andrew Suarez is the next big thing.
We finally agree.^^^ If it happens, will be an even year. believe in SF’s even-year prowess.
You and this entire thread really know how to fall for a troll….
Where’s Bumgarner going and for who? I want to see him pitching in the playoffs again and it’s not happening in San Francisco anytime soon.
Winning 3 championships was amazing to watch as a fan, but all good things do come to an end. I could see the aging core coming and the fact that the FO (Baer) didn’t is why I am glad they are changing leadership and hopefully direction of this club. They made poor FA signings and trades that bewildered even my dogs. A retool, rebuild or reimagining (lol) of the roster is due. I don’t want the team handicapped by a Harper contract and I really want to see the young guys play while Zaidi does his thing by trading my faves (which will hurt) letting contracts expire and making under the radar pick ups to field a product during this process that could be flipped for talent. Our farm should be the focus, rebuilding that is imperative, creating a sustainable flow from minors was what helped get those 3 WS titles. This mess started once Baer forced out Knuekom, who put importance on drafting, mental and physical health and better strength and conditioning programs. Plus Knuekom put money into improving our instructional leagues and spring training center. We have to go back to that before we start talking playoffs…playoffs? Sorry for the rant Xab!
That was unexpected but the Cards keep proving they’re one of the smartest clubs in the league. Goldy will rake and then sign a reasonable extension with them, 7/140 or 6/140, and everyone will be happy.
What was unexpected about the trade? Goldschmidt was 90% going to be with a new team
Unexpected to see Goldy leave the Snakes for anything less than a future all star. What Arizona got in return for a perennial MVP candidate surprises me.
“Goldy will rake and then sign a reasonable extension with them…”
Lotto numbers pls
1B only big bats don’t command much market these days. Although I believe Goldy is a generational talent, he’s never been hyped up like the guys who backed up the brinks truck, a la Cabrera, Pujols, ARod, and the soon to be over paid Bryce Harper. 6 or 7 at 140 is my prediction
What? Why would any of those things happen?
They also sent back elite talent for 1 year. Not clear how smart they are.
Who was the elite talent? An unproven pitcher? Or an unproven catcher? Neither guy helped last year.
“Elite talent.” Both were extraneous pieces on an 88-win team.
Hard to think of any team that stuck with Mike matheny for 6 seasons are the smartest in the league…
I respect the Cards for not becoming a revolving door for head coaches. Besides, on a 1-10 scale, Matheny is like a six. He’s not a difference maker like Tito or Maddon but he’s not going to cost you a season like an Ausmus or Ozzie.
If you think being predictable as a calendar and imaginative as a corpse as a ‘6’, I’m not so sure I trust your scale
He was an awful manager the Cardinals stuck with out of blind loyalty. That’s not something to look up to, it’s just dumb.
I mean, just look at what happened after they fired him, he did cost them at least 1 season…
They stuck with him because ownership supported him; management obviously had issues with Matheny the last two or three seasons, making moves to try to “Matheny-proof” the roster.
Plus, Matheny’s managing record, in which he’s one of the most successful managers in franchise history, combined with a slow deterioration rather than an utter collapse, helped Matheny keep his job longer when it became obvious there were issues.
Signing a 32-year-old for 6+ years never turns out to be “reasonable.”
Verlander and Scherzer contracts worked out pretty good. Although I admit the examples of long term contracts turning out good are outliers, Goldy is an athlete who happens to play baseball. Unlike Cabrera and Pujols.
As a Cards fan, I have no issue with the return going to the D’backs. I don’t think Kelly was ever going to get meaningful playing time for us (even if he breaks out in the desert) and I think Weaver could have a bright future but we’ve got so many young starters I’m more than happy to trade one for a big bat.
YAHOO!!!!!
A win for both teams.
Cards get one of the more underrated studs in Goldschmidt.
Zona gets their catcher of the future, upside in Weaver and an infielder who’s hit well in the minors.
Well done.
Thankful the rays didn’t pay this price
Me too! Glad the rays missed out!
Very good return for a one-year rental. Wouldn’t surprise me to see the Diamondbacks pull a Chapman with Goldy.
I hope so. I already miss him
Don’t know if they’d be able to afford him if they still have Greinke on the books.
Thinking they’ll look to trade him now. Will have to eat some money and probably take back a non-prospect but there are plenty of teams who would be interested.
In any event, if they can’t afford him, trading him now was probably a smart move because the alternative was to lose him for a comp pick.
Wow! Fireworks before the Winter Meetings!
I still think the brewers are the best team in the NL Central
Lol
Perhaps, but we’ll have to see when all is said and done, since the Brewers still really need rotation help, while the Cards still really need bullpen help.
Grienke is the next domino to fall
They didn’t give up too much to get him, this was a great trade for St. Louis. Win win for both teams, now Carson Kelly won’t be blocked, he more than deserves his shot.
Overpay by the cards, hopefully both trades work out
Wow great trade for the Cards!
Another Cub killer brought to the NL Central. Meanwhile, Epstein’s mystique is slowly fading before our eyes. It’s all just a matter of time before things come to a miserable end on the northside. I’ll go ahead and predict that Maddon heads to a Cubs rival next year right now.
He kills everyone. He is a great player. I agree though. Unless they make a few surprising moves and players play to their expectations Cubs may be in trouble.
Lol, omg. Lest we forget that the cubs tied for the most wins in the nl, without Darvish, Bryant most of the season, and a supposedly “broken” offense. I think the hot take machine is out of order, and the cubs will prolly be fine without signing any substantial pieces. It’s going to be a competitive nl central, which it has been for a few years now.
Baez has a great year, without him they would not have been close. It’s a tough division. It’s a little unfair for all three teams. The best part of this trade is that we will get to see Carpenter and that cannon of an arm at third base full time.
its always competative in the central. just recently Cubs became one of the teams
Oh goodness drama queen relax. Funny how first year in four where the Cubs didn’t make the NLCS brings the trolls out to over exaggerate everything.
Why cub fans always exaggerate everything.
Troll.
A white Sox fan desperately wishing the Cubs would fail, there’s something new…
So the Dodgers make the playoffs AGAIN due to the horrible division and the east and central are up in the air. American League will still be Cleveland Houston New York and Boston. This is starting to be like basketball
The AL definitely felt like that this year.
Last two World Series were awesome, this year it was like ok who will play Boston. And it was meh
That Boston-Houston series really was disappointing.
The division is ours to lose but you make it sound like the dodgers couldn’t hang with the the other NL divisions.
Milwaukee should have won that series but they got cold at the wrong time.
or you could just credit the dodgers pitching, who had the better bullpen in that series
Yep, more top shelf talent transferred to the northeast (as is the case every offseason in the MLB). Fans of small market teams have the power to bring balance back to the league; cancel your season tickets, stay away from the ballparks, and avoid MLB ticket. Sooner or later, owners will get the message.
I realize Goldy went to the midwest, but the premise is same.
There have been 5 new teams in the playoffs for a number of years, nothing like Basketball. Last year, Ask teams like the Twins, Cards, and Nats.
NLC is gonna get tight next year. Wonder if this motivates the Cubs to add. They’ve been playing possum. Big follow up move coming from Theo…?
Sixty year Cub fan here. That is a huge addition for the Cardinals. Heck of a player.
Cubs need to counter with a stick or two.
You’re right, but Theo’s too in love with his players to make any impactful trades. Not that you’d have much faith in his deals anyway—he’s developed a knack for signing broken players.
Know don’t have Molina replacement when retires because it isn’t Baron. Could be Knitzner. Great Trade. Weaver joins DBACKS SP.
Knitzer. Maybe Realmuto if he hits free agency in 2020.
Wow . Wow. Wow.
Now, sign LSP Kikuchi and address the bullpen.
if the brewers get nelson back healthy and get another SP it will be a tight 3 horse race. brewers should still win it.
so, as of this moment, Arizona has 6 of the top 78 picks. cool.
They just need Kyle Seager now and his entire contract and the cards are set!
that money is better spent on RF. Brantley or McCutchen.
Carpenter is slated for third base
Even in RF, the Cards have O’Neill or a possible rebound by Fowler (or possibly Jose Martinez if he isn’t traded). The bullpen is their biggest weakness right now.
Look at the number. Rizzo and Goldschmidt are basically the same player.
I really like this trade from the Arizona standpoint of the guys they get in return.
I think Weaver could be a really solid rotation piece. It’s hard to tell if Kelly will break out with consistent playing time, but it wouldn’t surprise me.
Good job St Louis, now go sign Harper and retake the central!!!
Smart move by St Louis. I personally think Goldy is a better player than Harper anyway.
I know it’s still a LONG shot, but if the cards go BIG and get Harper, then Carpenter, Goldy, Harper, and a healthy Ozuna would be a deadly 1-4. Let’s go cards!!!
I could also see Goldy getting an extension similar to the Altuve just signed. Although he’s never won an MVP, he’s always in the conversation every year. I can see a 5yr / 140-150 mil extension for Goldy. Possibly with an option for a 6th year.
Dude. He’s not going to sign an extension. If he was interested in doing that the Diamondbacks would have extended him already. Do you really think they didn’t try?
Wrong. D Backs couldn’t sign him to an extension because of the Greinke deal, and cause they are losing Corbin and Pollock. It doesn’t make sense to sign Goldy because the D Backs probably won’t be competitive for a while. I would expect the Cardinals to try hard and give Goldy an extension
Goldy means way more to AZ than whatever he does on the field. They wanted him to be a lifelong Diamondback. If there was even a chance of him signing an extension, this trade wouldn’t have happened.
Cards can try all they want. He has no loyalty to them. If anyone was going to extend him, it was AZ.
Not true at all. Stl is a great baseball city and has the young up and coming core to contend for years. Arizona didn’t have enough money or a good farm system to contend in the near future so they did what they had to do to restock for the future. If the cards were willing to pay Stanton’s contract last year, I have no doubt they have the money to extend Goldschmidt.
Whatever they offer him, the Diamondbacks already tried. Again, he means way more to them than he does to STL. More likely the Diamondbacks pull a Chapman and bring Goldy back next year.
Two players who have yet to show anything at the ML level with negative career WAR and a minor league infielder? Am I missing something? Even with their black magic player development the Cards couldn’t get Weaver or Kelly to show something. Can’t imagine the D-Backs will fare any better.
Kelly could never get into a groove being used as the backup to Yadier Molina and Weaver still has some upside. Plus the Diamondbacks can just bring Goldy back in free agency next year.
Never got in a groove. He played a significant number of game when Yadi went down with injury but then he got hurt too.
no he did not….when yadi went down Kelly also pulled his Hamstring and didn’t play all that much
Also not a Yanks fan but Bowden speculates they could get Bird, Frazier and Loaisiga from them. Bowden has his share of dumb takes but that seems reasonable and that package would have been miles better than what they got.
I respectfully disagree. Weaver and Kelly were recently top 100 prospects. It’s still way too early to judge both, especially since the latter only has around 130 PAs. Anthony Rizzo had around the same number when the padres traded him to the Cubs for Andrew cashner, which is still one of the worst trades of all time.
While I like Frazier, bird is garbage. His swing is meant for one pitch and for one park: low and in to the right field porch at
Yankee Stadium. Aside from health concerns, it’s not hard to figure him out, as his struggles showed. Unless he changes his approach and swing, he’s gonna be very similar to Chris Davis as a true 3 outcome hitter.
Small sample size. They get more quality players to the big leagues than most. Kelly (I admit I haven’t seen a ton of him or anyone else) is an excellent defender, I actually thought it was Yadi behind the plate and having she’d a few pounds. It won’t take much hitting for him to be Realimoto, seriously. Weaver I think I would have rather held on to for a year or two rather than Flarherty whom I like alot but whose value probably won’t be this high for a couple years. Weaver isn’t the pitcher we just saw and his five or six years seem more valuable to me even if in Tripple A and or the bp for some time. Cardinals have to win this year to make this trade okay and get someone with the pick. I’d have rather traded Weaver plus for Buelher or more realistically would have sent Kelly, Martinez and a far off piece plus org filler for Arrenando. Carp stays at first or even moves between 1st and 2nd with them bringing in a Pearce type player picking up T Jay in rule five draft. Then we wait for Ari to lower the price. Gyorko can play 3rd, 2nd, SS and 1st.
Way to go Mo!!!!!!!!!!!
Time to change my name
Wow!!! Next up, Greinke!! As a Giants fan this is sad. I loved going to the park and watching him. He had the Giants number!
That’s a great move for the Cardinals. Carson Kelly had lost a lot of his luster. Luke Weaver hasn’t really ever impressed me. Don’t know anything about the other guy.
I’m glad Weaver is gone. Nice trade for the Cards.
Funny how none of the notorious Mozeliak haters are commenting in this thread.
Am I the only one that thinks Dbacks got screwed?
No you are not.
Kelley and Weaver for Goldy? Lmfao wyd dbacks
Nice trade Cards! Now go after britton or miller to help the left side of the pen. Not too bad for dbacks either. May have their next starting catcher and a young pitcher with potential of a #2 starter. Cards are selling a little low on both.
Wow! The NL Central just got a little more competitive, at least for the 2019 season.
This was an overpay by the Cardinals, but desperate times call for desperate measures. At least for once this isnt a reactionary trade. Let’s see what the Cubs and brewers counter with. Cubs sign Kimbrel? Brewers sign Keuchel? Those were my picks for each team
I think the D-Backs got the best return so far in a trade for a veteran this winter. Goldy is a perfect fit for the Cards, but they still need more if they want the division.
I really don’t see this as a steal. We have one of if not the top 1B in baseball for 1 season guaranteed.
We lose a high floor youngish defensive-minded catcher and a young back end starter with a wicked changeup when he’s on.
Not saying we lost either. Good deal for everyone, considering the positions we’re in.
I don’t think either side should be upset with the return.
STL’s problem is their defense is freaking horrible.
I think they’re pretty solid now except for the left side of that infield.
Well, displacing Gyorko with Carpenter at 3B is definitely a major defensive downgrade, but they’ve still got Gold Glove caliber starters at C, 2B, CF, and now 1B as well, while DeJong is a decent defensive SS, and Ozuna’s defense in LF should be much improved with a healthy shoulder.
I see carp and gyorko being about even on defense at 3B and it’s not good but it’s not terrible. and now you add a gold glove 1B to the mix. Wong is a gold glove caliber 2B. Bader in CF is a defensive stud. Yadi just won his 9th gold glove. On top of that, one can only hope Ozunas fixed shoulder helps him return to being the gold Glover he was when we traded for him. The defense is improving drastically along with the offense.
Just trading Jose Martinez would make their defense much better
Carpenter and JMart were both considered top 10 1B in 2018 on the fangraphs WAR charts (3 and 9 respectively). We just brought in the #2.
The Matt Adams era is officially over!
Wow, Goldy traded for a pitcher with a 4.95 era, a backup catcher and an unknown minor leaguer.
One year of goldy tho plus 14.5 mil
or you could say Goldy for 2 former top 100 prospects and a top 50 draft pick.
The lotto ticket is andy young. And he just had a pretty awesome year. Not a throw in at all
Kelly is not a backup catcher…he was blocked by Molina
I’m not a Yankees fan but he would have fit so so nicely there.
YES! YES! YES!!!
Wow, great trade for the Cards! I’m really happy with who they let go and who they got! Considering he could be a one year rental, they really didn’t give up much. GREAT TRADE (assuming Goldy produces like he has in the past)
Bad trade
bad for who?
Seriously?
AZ got 6 years of Kelly who was a top 50 prospect at a premium position and 5 years of Weaver who at best will be a good #3 type pitcher or a late innings reliever at worst, an intriguing prospect in Young that just had a great AZ fall league showing and a top 50 pick on next year’s draft. Could they have gotten better? quite possibly, but they didn’t do so bad either. Kelly could be something special hitting in Arizona.
The Cards traded from a position of strength, and Kelly might be the only one they’ll miss a year or two from now, but they got Goldy and a whole year to get him to sign an extension.
Who did the Mariners get in the deal?
They trimmed the Cardinals fat for a year of Goldy
Reminiscent of the Cardinals trade for Matt Holliday — Great trade for the Cardinals!
Good deal for AZ. They were going nowhere next year and they got the best deal out there. Greinke next?
Cards win this deal big time, even with only one year of Goldy. They gave up next to nothing.
If Goldschmidt performs to his norms I will not be surprised if he signs extension with Cardinals.
2 top 100 prospects(1 current, 1 former), top 50 pick, and andy young, the lottery ticket, just had a pretty awesome season. So not like it was nothing. Still like it for the birds though, with an attempt to extend
I wouldn’t say the cards win…good trade both ways…Carson Kelly alone is a win for the snakes…he is going to be your catcher for the next 6 years and the cardinals get 1 year of Goldy
Good deal for both teams.
Says a lot when the MLB analysts are figuring JMart (possibly the worst outfielder in baseball) as our RF in 2019 and not Fowler.
I will say you can tell JMart knows the position.. he’s just severely limited. He has a really good arm and early on in his career before injuries derailed him for years, he was touted as a 5 tool prospect.
That mang can HIT HIT HIT.
The D-Backs should be ashamed of themselves. This is highway robbery. Seriously? They got Carson Kelly for a rental first baseman? He’s the second highest rated caching prospect in the world. With really good peripherals too.
Did the cardinals just seriously trade three young players for a one year rental? Good movies with this season but when they are on able to retain him it will look like a bad deal.
goldie will be one of the biggest f/a next season.
The package the Cardinals gave Diamondbacks for Goldy is shocking, the 2 main guys in trade do not warrant a talent like Goldschmidt. Weaver is a mid rotation prospect at best and Kelly is going to be a great defender but has shown in a small sampling that he is going to have trouble hitting. Amazing that Arizona would accept this offer for their prime player. Congratulations Cardinals on an unbelievable trade.
Kelly has a .373 OBP, at triple A, in 750 PAs. That’s a huge amount of solid PAs, that translate to good numbers in the majors almost every time. Once you get a chance to play, that is.
Whatever a guy does in 130 PAs, scattered over three major league seasons, is irrelevant. He could’ve gone hit-less, and it would still not be a sample size you could possibly base any informed opinion on.
Exactly…I laugh because people assume so surely Kelly won’t hit…he barely ever played in consecutive games in the MLB…to judge his hitting on that is absurd
Agreed. I would’ve happily taken him in a trade for Jose Abreu. Amazing how quickly he lost his “untouchable” status with Cards fans.
Well its sounds like he would be a Hofer if he could play in AAA for his career. Hes over hyped and the Cardinals know that. Good riddance…
His value is the lowest it’s been over the last 3 or so years. If they “knew he was overhyped,” they really missed the boat on trading him for max value…
Lol is he…I mean he is only one of the best catching prospects in baseball…people think he has lost value? Why? he has been blocked by Molina or he would already have been the cardinals catcher…he has still maintained a great bat in triple A…why should he be punished for that?
You are 100% correct, they should have traded him 3 years ago, the verdict is out on him now, I wish he ran faster then I could quote the manager from major league, u may run like Mays… but you hit like $hit.
It was the best offer in their opinion, their expert opinion. Kelly should have already been worked into the major leagues. He should have got 45 starts or so. I think it was an overpay. You think we’d get close to this out of a younger cost controlled Martinez? If it’s remotely close we’ll pull the trigger and sign, or trade for a left handed bench bat. They might go for Haniger by attaching Seager to him after Harper signs but realistically I’d take Seager and Sheffield for not much.
Now that’s a Blockbuster,not sure on the Dbacks end though?
I don’t know if I like this trade or not lol.
4 pieces of “meh” for an IMPACT player….make that deal anytime, even it’s just for one year……Weaver’s got some possibilities, but they’ve been waiting on Kelly forever (and they have better in the minors)….Young has been old (no pun intended) for his classification, and had been given the dreaded “utility label….it’s a low-reward draft pick……
The guy that said he was happy the Rays didn’t do this is completely wrong….it’s EXACTLY what the Rays SHOULD be doing….eating some coin, adding an impact talent, paying a low-player cost…..Goldy strikes out too much, but, along with his squigley numbers, is a pro pro’s, top-shelf kind of guy, perfect for a young team that has some questions in that area…..
Lol cardinals weren’t waiting on kelly.
5/135M extension?
Big deal cards didn’t have to give up Hudson or O’Niell imo
Cards are probably a 91ish win team right now. With about $20M to spend on the bullpen
Nope. If Goldy was going to sign an extension it would have happened by now. It’s not like the Diamondbacks didn’t try.
Rooster, I’ve seen you make this comment 3-4 in this thread. Maybe the dbacks didn’t try hard enough… maybe they lowballed him cause they’re not in a good financial position and couldn’t pay him his worth… maybe Goldy wants to win and didn’t want to sign an extension with a team that doesn’t look to be competitive going forward. Ever think about those possibilities? the cards have the money to pay the man what he’s worth on the open market and are going to be competitors for the next few years.
B.S. Every team except the Rays and A’s have the money to afford whoever they want. Goldy was AZ’s face of the franchise. You’re on something if you think they wouldn’t have given him what he’s worth.
No disrespect Steve but Ozuna’s line was still better than pedestrian. If healthy and with PG in the lineup, the Redbird’s will soar as high as their pitching will take them.
I like the deal for both sides. Cards have to go for it and AZ gives them an elite 1B for 2 high risk high reward types, a prospect and a draft pick, for 1 year of Goldy. That’s about market value. Kelly is probably going to be an all-star and Weaver could easily be too. The prospect looks like he might hit the bigs and then a 1st round draft pick, for a guy who’s a perennial 5 WAR/MVP-level player. That’s what those cost.
If they can lock him up long term, he’d be a great fit for the team. I’m just afraid that he ends up leaving after the year is over.
This will be the first of several moves by the Cardinals, I think, at the very least it opens two spots on the 40 man roster.
Thought the Dbacks would holdout for the local O’Connor HS grad Gorman. Looking at the age/experience of the return, it seems as though Hazen sees the Dbacks as more of a retool than a rebuild. Imo, Dbacks got quantity with decent floors, not extremely high ceilings. Every organization in the league knew Goldy was available and would be traded, so I expect this is the best that Hazen could get. Cardinals got a true professional.
Dojo the I’ll give you my optimistic opinion…Kelly is going to be a good defensive catcher for sure and he knows how to call a game…people thinks his bat sucks but that isn’t so…he barely played in the Bigs and when he did it was for a game or two…very rarely he played multiple games…his bat always warmed up when he got promoted to the next level…just look at his minor league stats…I think his bat will be fine when he starts playing everyday…this is the guy that the Dbacks should be happy about…Weaver will benefit from the spacious ballparks out west…but I never was to high on him…but he could be a solid back of the rotation guy…and plus the compensation pick makes it a good trade
Then I guess it’s safe to assume they will be out on Harper
Why you think that? I think personally thinks makes us more attractive to harper. But we do have other areas we could focus on, like the bp
Well for starters, it’s been reported that their focus is now on the bullpen, and they’re out of the sweepstakes for Harper/Machado. Hopefully I’m wrong, I really hope I am.
Why not get Harper too?
Gotta love when a team’s fans suddenly act like the prospects that just got traded aren’t that good when they are guys that those same fans swore up and down would be impact MLB players for their old team.
It’s gotta be the dumbest thing fans do. It’s like they actually think GMs are on here reading the comments. Oh man cardinals420fan4life says no way can I get Luke Weaver in this trade better give that idea up. Talking up prospects as if you’re actually making the deal themselves only to point and laugh and say that guy was totally expendable! talking him down afterwards just makes them look like buffoons.
That’s before we got to know them!
I am a huge dbacks fan and I know goldy had to go but for gods sake that’s a terrible return.
What did you honestly expect? He’s a great player, but 31 year old rental first basemen aren’t worth a whole bunch on the trade market… This is more than I would’ve expected.
2 top 100 prospects(1 current, 1 former),a lottery ticket that just had a really good year, and a comp pick…not shabby for a possible rental imo
You are correct, Arizona could have held out for Hudson, Gomber, Poncedeleon, or Oneill, who all have big league experience. They lost all confidence in Weaver last year, as he started off hot and went straight in the can by years end. In addition they didnt value Kelly as high at years end either, they love his defense and pitch calling but in his limited at bats in the big leagues he has looked overmatched and confused hitting .154 over 3 years in 117ab.
The untouchable Carson Kelly? Whaaaaaat?
Too much to give up. Weaver could have been part of a deal for Thor and Kelly could have headlined his own deal. Kelly plays for Robles, doesn’t seem far off. Martinez wasn’t far off of Goldschmidt and is younger and cheaper.
Dude you think way too high of these guys lol. The one that hurts to lose is Kelly, but then again, he was never going to get playing time with Yadi still around.
Plus we have knizner
the dbacks suck. this is a terrible trade. they don’t get a 1st baseman and they need one to be ready. maybe they bring up kevin cron and that’s probably what’s gonna happen.
They could sign or wait for a 1st baseman/dh to struggle and take home for nothing. Thanks might not cost much. Morales, Cron was available for 5.2 million. Adran Gonzalez might play, I guess. It doesn’t matter if they have a 1st baseman because it is the most readily available position. Trumbo on a one year deal, any number of players.
They have their 1st baseman of the future in Pavin Smith. Weaver can be a solid #2 and Kelly might’ve just needed a change. The Dbacks wouldn’t have gotten more at the AS break. I am very sad to see Goldy go. My jersey will be a constant reminder of the good times. Now a time for 6 years of mediocre ball.
All these people claiming it was a great deal for the Cards must not fully grasp that Goldschmidt will be a free agent this time next year.
Pieces they gave up were mostly superfluous but yeah, this deal is automatically going to look bad for STL if they don’t at least make the postseason in 2019.
Not necessarily. The pieces they gave away didn’t have much value to the Cardinals. If Goldy declines the QO next year, the Cards get a first round draft pick.
But they also gave up a competitive balance round pick in the trade which isn’t much lower than the comp pick they’ll get for Goldy. To say nothing of the fact that Weaver, Kelly and Young could have been traded for someone who wasn’t a pending FA.
Yeah, but who?
If all goes wrong think of the haul the Cards go get at the trade deadline by desperate teams in the playoff hunt. It’s a win win win situation for the Cardinals.
Dunno. Who is available, under contract for 2-3 years and would fill a need for STL?
Yah, just look at the haul a rental JD Martinez brought back a couple years ago…
People who think it was a great deal for the Diamondbacks don’t realize how awful Weaver and Kelly are.
They’ve literally combined for -1..8 bWAR in the last 3 years. But somehow more playing time will make them stop sucking at the major league level?
(And the people who say Kelly hit at AAA seem to ignore all the times he didn’t hit in the lower majors)
Jeremy…you are correct, the Cardinals were done with Weaver and Kelly both because they had lost all confidence in them. Weaver was a mess by the end of the year and couldn’t get anybody out. He started off the year great then started at Wrigley and the Cubs lit him up, he never looked the same after that.
Kelly was drafted for his bat…he was switching positions from third to catcher so he concentrated on defense…in which case he became a gold glove minor league glove, then in the upper minors, you know where it matters more than in the lower minors…he hit around .280…so what is the point of saying he didn’t hit in lower minors lol
Kinda funny that the D”backs turned down the Cards request for a 72-hour window for a contract extension discussion with Goldy. I wonder now if the Cards would of push that if the D”backs could of requested another player or prospect.. Big gamble for Cards though, going all in for 2019 and if Goldy become a FA, nothing to show for it except a first-round pick. Giving up Weaver with 5 years of non arbitration and Kelly having a 6 yr window. Will give the D”backs time to develop these two players and keep the salary structure in-tact while re- building the farm system..
Weaver has 2 years of non arbitration.
Why would they offer an extension window? The goal is to trade one year of him for players with more club control and then bring him back in free agency next offseason. If Goldy were willing to do an extension the Diamondbacks wouldn’t trade him they would be the ones that extend him.
Dallas Kuechal seems like a logical and good fit in St Louis.
We’re getting to the days where it’s nearly impossible to stay with one team your whole career. Best of luck to Goldy in St. Louis, I know the fans will treat him well there.
Seems like an insane haul to me.. If I were a Az fan, I would have the hardest time seeing him go… but u got more than enough for him. Like great return
Finally a relevant move.
Agree that even though Goldschmidt is a proven commodity, I really like what Arizona got in this deal – Weaver is a #2-3 starter for the next 4-5 years, Kelly is already a solid #2 catcher and Young is a versatile player with potential. Add a draft choice and remember Goldschmidt can walk next year makes you want to chalk this deal up for the Snakes.
Keep in mind the Cardinals are basically getting a 1st round pick or a top 1B for years to come after the 2019 season.
Weaver is only that good of a starter if he can develop a third pitch. Last year he only had two, and that is a very large part of why he started getting shelled every time he went out to the mound. If he wants to stick in a rotation, he NEEDS to figure out a legitimate breaking ball, or he’s bullpen bound.
He puts too much responsibility on the Lord. I was a bit worried when the whole mega-Christian thing came out. Everyone knows Jesus Christ can’t throw a curveball… and neither can Luke.
I thought the Lord Jesus Christ couldn’t hit a curve ball, not throw one…lol
By definition, any time you trade prospects for a rental, you lose the trade unless you win the World Series that year or the rental player signs with you and says that he wouldn’t have signed if you hadn’t traded for him first.
Weaver’s ceiling is Mike Leake; Kelly’s ceiling is Mike Matheny.
Arizona got two average players for one great one.
^ doesn’t know about club control
Would love to see Harper sign with the Cardinals. But not 10 years may 8 years at 30m per year or something. Something more team friendly then I bet Goldy resigns
Nick Markakis or Michael Brantley
Are either one left handed?
Both are. 31 year old Brantley just won comeback player of the year in the AL. 35 year old Markakis was quietly one of Atlanta’s top three performers behind Freeman and Acuna.
I’m not sure sticking with Dexter and JMart are terrible ideas though. Dexter cannot possible do worse and he was big for us in 2017.
Either would be good. Ozuna, Bader, O Neil, JMart, and either of two you mentioned. Trade Dex.
I don’t really think they need an outfielder. My biggest concern besides BP (which I think will get sorted out) is defense on the left side of the infield. I don’t think there’s anything to be done about that though unless you played Carp at 2nd a lot more. But then you’re losing Wong’s glove.
The eye test i questionable, but Carpenter and DeJong were both top 5 defensive 3B/SS in the NL in 2018 according to the metrics.
Of course, David Freese was a gold glove finalist in ’17, if that’s an indication of the level of defensive talent in the NL.
weaver and kelly, plus young, for a one year rental. i’m not complaining
Goldman is the prototypical 80’s 1st baseman. no defense and light power numbers. Contract year could help though.
Kraz…you have no clue. First, his name is Goldschmidt, not Goldman. Second, he’s a multi-year Gold Glove winner, who is The Best defensive 1b in all of baseball. Third, he’s like Hank Aaron was, never a huge year of HR, but consistently elite level power.
When you don’t know anything at all about a player, please don’t comment.
Gold gloves are worthless. Goldman is average offensively and defensively. Hank Aaron lol
His name still isn’t Goldman.
He’s 112 years old, cut him a break.. baseball-reference.com/players/g/goldmjo01.shtml
Ignore the Troll
Are you high?
Finally, a Cardinals-related thread for Cardinals17 to whine about how Mozeliak never does anything.
I still think they’re the 3rd best team in the division, but they could definitely be challenging the top 2 with a couple more moves. May even be the 2nd best as of now, as I don’t think the Brewers’ rotation will repeat what they did last year as it stands.
Now, do the Cardinals move Carp to 3B, or do something with Wong and put him at 2B?
I’m eating some crow about right now. Might as well add Bumgarner and Harper and go from the goat Mozeliak to the hero Mozeliak. Then worry about how to resolve 2020 free agent problems when that time comes.
Any chance the Cardinals make a trade for Nolan Arenaldo? He has indicated he wouldn’t mind playing in St. Louis at all. If so, would Carpenter or Gyroko be part of that trade???
Rox aren’t moving Nolan.
Cardinals17…you continue to have no idea what you are talking about
Thought for sure Yankees would land him for Ryan Lavarnway and Jacoby Ellsbury…. I guess they refused to offer Tyler Wade in that deal. LOL
My problem with this move is that it’s just a temporary fix. Even if we extend him, it means Carpenter will be gone after 2020
On the other hand, signing Harper would have solved the problem for the next 7 years at least, maybe 10.
Except Harper isn’t that great.
They are getting to a point where Carpenters lack of a position is causing trouble. It would not surprise me at all to see him traded if a good 3b could be had.
When Carp’s time is up, hopefully Gorman will be ready. That dude looks like the real deal.
Dbacks keep it going
How about this:
Braves trade Gohara (#78), Drew Waters (#91), Bryse Wilson (#96), , and Julio Tehran (salary relief) for David Peralta (290 BA and 30 HRs with two years control)
Erie4312, put down the bong and step away from the pipe.
The Diamondbacks are clearing salary in order to sign Harper.
Ha!
This trade is a perfect example of a GM being smart and another being stupid. The Cardinals are huge winners. There are a handful of elite players and any team that can amass one or more players at that level are going to be highly competitive if they can use the rest of their money slots wisely. Arizona has once again made a huge mistake. Players like Goldy should never be traded away in their prime. JD should have been resigned and maintained for years. The good GMs who win do it by amassing talent and recognizing who is real talent not just a big name.
I see no reason to spend big money on Harper, Machado, Stanton or Cano. These are all big names but not big talents. Long HRs count just as much as those skimming the top of the fence. Big names don’t win World Series, big talent does. Ask the Yankees, the Dodgers and the Angels. Lots of big names very few team trophies. Ask SF what I’m talking about. Posey, Bumgarner (big talents) and 3 trophies. That’s 3 more than Kershaw and Trout have won. Why? Because the GMs for the Dodgers and Angels keep seeking big names not big talent. I believe both Kershaw and Trout are big talents but 1 guy doesn’t get you trophies. I was hoping Ohtani was going to be that second big talent to finally give the Angels a shot at a trophy. Maybe he will be. The Dodgers saw first hand that Manny wasn’t that second guy to help Kershaw take his team to a championship. His big name will surely get him a big payday but he’s fool’s gold.
Some GMs like Cashman have yet to figure out the difference. He picked Stanton over JD! What a huge mistake. He took Britton over Eovaldi despite having one of the best bullpens in baseball. The amazing part is most fans in NY thought it was a brilliant move!! It shows that all you have to do is go for big names and loyal fans will applaud you even if it’s the wrong move.
Could Machado or Harper be great in the post season? Maybe. Do they have the character and personality to fit in and make their core team better like JD did this past year or Posey did for SF or Papi did for Boston for many years? I personally don’t believe it’s in their make-up. That’s why I feel their price tag is way above their true value. We live in a stat world today and stats can be manipulated to say just about anything. Here is a stat about Harper and Manny, they have zero team trophies but they have several personal trophies. Brian Kenny might not like my thinking but intangibles can be more significant in valuing players than stats.
The Cardinals are one step closer to a World Series title and Arizona has ensured they won’t be there for the next decade. Houston had a mind-boggling rebuild and did it in 5 years. Arizona, Baltimore and others will never have their success because they don’t have the farm systems and the knowledgeable GM. The most likely successful rebuild should happen in Toronto because of the deep core of young players they have. It’s the closest thing to the Houston or the Cub rebuilds. Guerrero and Bichette should jumpstart the process this year and they already have several excellent young pitchers and hitters to support their two core elite prospects. Arizona got nice prospects but where are their cornerstones for the future? They should have hung onto Goldy and JD and worked the rest of the roster to reduce costs. Maintain elite players and clear the the rest of the roster if you want to do a mini-rebuild. They could have gone cheap in so many positions with JD and Goldy batting 3/4. Now we’ll need to check back in 2023 to see if they’ve made any progress after this purging.
Congrats to St. Louis and all it’s fans. You are going to love Goldy!! I hope you find the other necessary elite talent to win a world series in the near future. Some of it may already be there just waiting for their cornerstone guy to arrive!!
Errr… what? How did this trade ensure that the Diamondbacks won’t make it to the World Series for the next decade? Goldy was only signed for one more year. If the Diamondbacks don’t make it to the World Series in the next 10 years they wouldn’t have made it even if they hadn’t made this trade.
Great read, couldn’t write better myself. That J:D. – Stanton decision between Yanks and Red Sox was deference to win WS.
Scary thing is the way this game is going now with massive $$$ involved for big ‘stars’ as you put it, that Stanton contract in couple of yrs will look like bargain.
“Ask the Yankees, the Dodgers and the Angels. Lots of big names very few team trophies”
Do you seriously think the Yankees haven’t won many trophies?
Great move for the Cards. Weaver and Kelly were both expendable. Yes, Yadi said he’s going to retire at the end of his contract, but I would not be surprised if they convince him to play another year or two. The guy is a machine and plays like he’s still in his prime. Cards are going to make an aggressive offer to extend Goldy as they did with Holliday and Heyward. If you follow Cardinals baseball then you know what we gave up to get an elite player was minimal.
Yeah, we all know how well extending Holliday and Heyward went lol
Holliday signed for 7 years and outproduced his contract. Now Heyward not resigning was a blessing in disguise.
Cardinals still would have been able to sign Holliday without trading for him.
Cardinals assumed they would be able to extend Heyward and it didn’t happen.
Trade and then resign/extend is how Cards prefer to operate. McGwire, Rolen, Edmonds, Holliday are some recent examples of this. Heyward is only big name I can think of that left. Goldy, we’ll see.
How many of those guys can we say with any kind of objectivity that the Cards wouldn’t have been able to sign if they hadn’t traded for them first?
Nobody could say that, only the individual players. Holliday is only one on record I’ve seen and he confirmed it. Just saying when something happens several times it begins to become a pattern. Those names were some of most major acquisitions of last 20 years or so for cards and they all were traded for and resigned. So it’s kinda obvious that’s Cards preferred method. And that’s all I was saying.
“Holliday is only one on record I’ve seen and he confirmed it.”
Source?
“Just saying when something happens several times it begins to become a pattern.”
Again, unless the player takes a discount to sign with the team or explicitly says that he wouldn’t have signed there if they hadn’t traded for him, the default assumption is that he would have signed there anyway. The hefty majority of players go where the money is.
Holliday more than earned his contract, and not re-signing Heyward was awesome in the end (and Miller was just non-tendered lol)
The Cardinals just outbid everyone else to sign Holliday. They would have been able to sign him without trading for him.
The Cardinals seemed to just assume they would be able to extend Heyward when they traded for him. Not surprisingly, it didn’t happen. You NEVER assume an extension will happen.
The Cardinals could have gotten more for Miller if they’d waited a year to trade him.
I completely disagree with your Holliday comments. Holliday decided that he wanted to be in St. Louis BECAUSE of the trade, every time he’s asked about his extension in an interview that’s always what he talks about. If some other team trades for him, he very well may have signed with another team. Holliday has stated time and time again that he was looking for the right fit, not the right contract. And he still operates that way, that’s why he ended up with the Rockies again. L
“Holliday decided that he wanted to be in St. Louis BECAUSE of the trade…”
Quote?
“… every time he’s asked about his extension in an interview that’s always what he talks about.”
He didn’t extend with STL. He signed with them in free agency. Unless there are confirmed reports that someone else offered more or he explicitly said he wouldn’t have signed with STL if they hadn’t traded him first then he would have signed there anyway.
All this yelling.
Holliday, Rolen, Edmonds and McGwire signed long term deals with the Cards because of their time with the team.
Trading for a great player before committing big money allows both the team and the player to learn that it’s the right fit.
That didn’t happen with Heyward, but it did happen with the before mentioned group.
It’s a great way for both parties to get to know one another. And it’s possible the team is willing to commit more when they fall in love, and it’s possible for the player to chose the team more easily among multiple offers if they have fallen in love.
Relationships take both parties agreeing it’s a fit.
“Holliday, Rolen, Edmonds and McGwire signed long term deals with the Cards because of their time with the team. ”
So they told you this?
“It’s a great way for both parties to get to know one another. And it’s possible the team is willing to commit more when they fall in love…”
But it doesn’t affect their actual ability to pay the player all that money.
“… and it’s possible for the player to chose the team more easily among multiple offers if they have fallen in love.”
And you seriously think giving up Weaver, Kelly, Young and the draft pick is worth MAYBE having a marginally better chance of signing a player which can just as easily backfire? (see Darvish, Yu)
“Relationships take both parties agreeing it’s a fit.”
Correct. And there’s no guarantee that Goldy will agree it’s a fit and even if he does it doesn’t mean the Cards will get any kind of discount. This trade doesn’t happen if their FO isn’t OK with the prospect of Goldy leaving after one year.
The team did extend Holliday once and they did make a solid offer to extend Heyward. He just wanted to play for a team he thought would be a winner. It appears he was right although the Cards could be in the process of reversing their slide. Goldy will be a great defensive improvement at first as well as a great addition to the batting order. Now if we can just do the same thing at 3B. I hear Arenado isn’t happy in Denver. Talk about lighting a fire!!!!
The team did extend Holliday once and they did make a solid offer to extend Heyward. He just wanted to play for a team he thought would be a winner. It appears he was right although the Cards could be in the process of reversing their slide. Goldy will be a great defensive improvement at first as well as a great addition to the batting order.
Wtf are you talking about? Matt Holliday has never signed an extension in his life. The Cardinals traded for him at the trade deadline in his contract year and then re-signed him in the offseason. And they just assumed they would be able to extend Heyward and weren’t able to. Just goes to show that you should never assume these things. Same goes with Goldy.
Everyone, red rooster is right. Nobody has ever liked their time or fit with St. Louis. Everyone only signed with cardinals because of money. Goldy will go to Yankees or someone no matter how much he likes St. Louis or the team if they offer $1 more than cardinals. There, feel better rooster? You are right.
This move was made because of years of bad decisions on behalf of poor GM’s. First Kevin Towers and all of his poor trades and signings. Justin Upton grade and then Yasmany Thomas signing among several. Then the “ Genius” Tony LaRussa and Dave Stewart with the Shelby Miller deal along with Zack Greinke deal put new GM Mike Hazen behind the 8 ball. He had no choice. Hopefully now we will go in the right direction. I will always root for Goldy. A class act. In the end it is a business
One thing I dont see brought up much is that competitive balance pick. Doesnt this give the dbacks like 5 or 6 choices within the top 80? That could be huge for them.if used right. Plus they might get another for Corbin…. oh and another for AJ assuming he signs elswhere
Like the Nats…
My take is that Goldy’s new agent told Hazen that Goldy will definitely test free agency next year, so Hazen traded him. So Cards fans should evaluate this trade as 1 year of Goldy for the package that came back. Dbacks win that trade.
Unless you get an extension as part of the trade that is always how it should be evaluated. Even if the Cards sign Goldy later it won’t matter because there was no formal or informal agreement that he would sign with them just because they traded for him.
I agree that your take is probably exactly what happened. Nothing says the Diamondbacks can’t bring Goldy back in a year.
Greinke is what says Goldie won’t be back in a year 😉
Playing together for a year could have a big impact on what the team wants to pay the player and how badly the player wants to play for the team.
It doesn’t affect their actual ability to pay him and it could also backfire as far as increasing the likelihood that he wants to sign there (see Darvish, Yu)
Now, sign Harper to play RF. The Cardinals have the cheese. If they’re gonna bake a winning pie, buy all the good ingredients you can. Goldie and Harper in the same lineup? Wow!
One year of Goldie for Young, Weaver and Kelly is a fair swap.
Where the Cards are on the win now curve and those three guys being redundant and down on the depth chart, it’s a good old fashioned baseball trade that works for both clubs.
He can test free agency, and the cards may win him in an extension (depends how 2019 goes for both parties). If not, they’ll recollect that draft pick they gave to Arizona.
I think this trade makes it a three Team race. With injuries deciding.
As a Dbacks fan, very sad to see Goldy go. However, great to see him going to StL, where I expect he’ll finally be recognized as one of the very best players of this generation. As for the trade from a Dbacks perspective, ask me in 2-3 years, please.
Great and typical move for the Cardinals. It will make their lineup better and they have a year to see about getting him to stick around St. Louis long term. As a Cubs fan, I have to say great job and the division race just tightened a bit more.
what a horrible trade for the cards. morons…
I agree with Ben Fred that this is a very good deal for the Cards and potentially a great deal for the DBacks too. I hope I’m not the only Cards fan who has worried about their crash from being a post season competitor. I think the team lost its moorings as a solid ly strong defensive one under Matheny. Adding Goldy is a big help there but moving Carp to 3B is a serious mistake. He doesn’t do great on defense at 1B but he’s very weak at 3B. Arenado would be the rocket booster to plug that hole at 3B and add yet another solid bat to our order. The Cards could become an offensive juggernaut with him on the team. If not him, how about Moose? We have the trade potential with Carp and J Martinez to make something happen and become a power house, not just a competitor. We still need a LH arm like Britton in the BP. and a good starter (preferably LH) to replace Weaver in the rotation. But those are fixable problems. Getting 2 good 2 way players to fill in the infield corners is a major need. Getting them and becoming a force in the post would also make extending Ozuna, Goldy and ? at 3B much easier. Who doesn’t want to play for a real threat?
Carpenter has posted average defensive metrics at third his entire career, which is over 4K innings.
Just because he has a weird Hunter Pence throwing motion doesn’t mean he is bad defensively.
Carpenter is the best leadoff hitter in baseball, and going from Carp to Moose is one more out every 10 PA’s. You’d go from a 4 win player to a 2 win player. That would be a serious downgrade.
You don’t acquire a middle of the order hitter like Goldie, just to get rid of the best leadoff hitter that he’d drive in all year.
They work well together.
Matt Carpenter had PLUS SIX defensive runs saved last year at third base. Plus six. Not minus six. This whole false narrative that Carpenter is a horrendous defensive third baseman is getting pretty old, it doesn’t matter what his throw looks like if he makes the play.
range factor. cant get to balls well above third baseman can get to.
The league average range factor per nine innings for 2018 at 3B was 2.49. Carpenters for 2018 was 2.88. The numbers don’t lie, he’s slightly ABOVE AVERAGE at 3B if you want to rate him with range factor.
The narrative is false as soon as you dive into numbers, but people see his goofy-looking mechanics and just assume he’s bad. He’s not.
Load up on pitching. The lineup is money.
I have a feeling Goldschmidt and Carpenter are going to be best friends. Of course, I’d rather see them become co-MVP’s.