The Indians extended right-hander Carlos Carrasco this week, but his days of sharing a rotation with fellow righties Corey Kluber and Trevor Bauer appear to be over. Cleveland is going to trade either Kluber or Bauer this offseason, though it’s not clear who’s more likely to go, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports says (video link). Either of those aces would likely command an impressive return in a trade, with the 32-year-old Kluber controllable for three more seasons and Bauer (28 in January) eligible for arbitration for another two. The Indians’ goal in trading either Kluber ($17.5MM salary in 2019) or Bauer (a projected $11.6MM) would be to reduce payroll and increase their young talent base, notes Rosenthal. As a result, Rosenthal casts doubt on the possibility of the Indians attaching second baseman Jason Kipnis to Kluber or Bauer in a trade. Jettisoning the remaining $17MM on the underperforming Kipnis’ contract would better the Indians’ payroll outlook, but forcing a Kluber or Bauer suitor to take him would greatly damage the return they’d get for either pitcher.
More from the majors’ Central divisions…
- Reds second baseman Scooter Gennett carried his surprising 2017 breakout into last season, when he finished fifth at his position in fWAR (4.5). The Cincinnati native is now a year away from free agency, but with the Winter Meetings approaching, a potential extension isn’t one of the Reds’ main priorities right now, president Dick Williams explained Friday (via Mark Sheldon of MLB.com). “I wouldn’t expect it before the calendar turns [to 2019],” Williams said. “There’s too much up in the air in terms of roster construction going forward. I don’t think you’ll see us working on any extensions for anybody — that’s not just Scooter-specific. But I don’t see any other extensions happening in the next 30 days while we’re working out the roster.” Williams added that the Reds “will be careful about a lot of extensions,” so it’s unclear how serious they are about re-upping Gennett. Barring a new deal, Gennett’s projected to earn $10.7MM in 2019 – a healthy raise over the $5.7MM he pulled in during the career year he enjoyed in 2018.
- Unsurprisingly, the low-payroll Pirates aren’t in position to make any splashes at the Winter Meetings, Rob Biertempfel of The Athletic writes (subscription required). Still, general manager Neal Huntington has interest in shortstops and left-handed relievers, per Biertempfel. Notably, though, it doesn’t appear the Pirates’ longstanding union with shortstop Jordy Mercer will continue, according to Biertempfel. Mercer has been with the Pittsburgh organization since it selected him in the third round of the 2008 draft, but the two sides have had almost no contact since the end of last season, Biertempfel reports.
- Tom Haudricourt of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel looks at potential trade pieces at the major league level for the Brewers, naming Domingo Santana, Keon Broxton and Eric Thames as possible candidates. It’s “unlikely” the Brewers will retain both Santana and Broxton, as each outfielder is out of minor league options, notes Haudricourt, who adds that Thames “could be had in the right deal.” A first baseman/outfielder, Thames experienced a dip in production in 2018 and saw Jesus Aguilar take hold of the first base position in Milwaukee. The 32-year-old Thames is due $6MM in 2019, and with the Brewers having a limited amount of payroll room, getting his money off the books may help them upgrade elsewhere. Second base is one area Milwaukee could try to bolster, though considering high-end prospect Keston Hiura is looming, the team’s not going to make a long-term commitment there this offseason, Haudricourt relays.
thelastonetodie
I see kluber going to the yanks for anduhar and Frazier, with some other prospect(s) and then going after machado..
baseball1600
this isn’t it cheif
pinstripes17
Bruh, you can’t even spell chief. Yankees getting Bauer or Kluber with Florial and Frazier as the headliners
Slevin
Give him a break, because they only get so much internet time at the center
baseball1600
What does this have to do with my spelling ability? Like I understand you’re trying to find a way to roast me, but there is no context to this. Just a random, mortifying comment with no purpose. It’s what most of your comments are.
Melchez
Yanks are getting Goldschmidt and Corbin too, right?
Yankee fans think they are getting every good player. Then when they don’t they say they never wanted them.
I love reading yankee fan posts.
i like al conin
Good gawd, there’s so much negativity on this message board. Everyone trying to one-up each other with their baseball knowledge. Give the guy a break for the spelling error.
baseball1600
It’s the Yankee fans.
Slevin
Mommy Yankee fans are bullying again.bfh
callingoutdummies247
Yankee fans are the reason the Yankees are hated. Most have a tiny baseball IQ and try to cover it with what they feel is witty remarks to try and tear someone else down. I tear people down, but only idiots. Most of the time they’re Yankee fans. They’re my favorite
Ejemp2006
Yankee fans’ average baseball IQ is best represented by a bell curve. Unfortunately, most of those who fall in the lower 10th percentile also have active accounts on this site…
yanksknicks
A lot of people besides yankees fans thought those things would happen too. And not all of us are hypocrites but some of us are and every fan base has them.
yanksknicks
A lot of people besides Yankees fans thought so too. And not all of us are hypocrites. Some of us are but every fan base has them.
baseballpun
This.
22Leo
Yeah but you said “bruh” so you lose in life.
Jim Foster
Indians to the Yankees: Bend over.
slpdajab55
Had to get out the urban dictionary to understand you “bruh”
Dennid
Well said. For the Yanks trade, Indians won’t take Frazier back as the headliner (or one of them) for Kluber; would they?
VivaBeavis
What a tough guy. You’re the coolest. You need to get over yourself.
steelerbravenation
No way they trade him to a team they would be competing against in the playoffs. I don’t think Kluber gets moved at all most likely will be Bauer but if it is Kluber it will be the Dodgers.
NotaGM
agreed…they will await for the best package but I see Baur going. smart to take advantage of his only good season
tonydepalma
Andujar will not be traded
norcalguardiansfan
The only way they trade Kluber or Bauer to an American League team is if the return is truly transformative. (Yankees fans read: its gonna hurt). Andujar is attractive, but Frazier just doesn’t have that much value. Also, Florial is two years away. That might be too far off. Verdugo continues to be the most attractive realistic target, in my opinion, unless the Astros get crazy and offer us Tucker and Whitley.
pinstripes17
You really want get much better than package headliners like Florial or Verdugo, Andujar wouldn’t be moved because there is no guarantee we sign Manny.
mrnatewalter
According to Yankee fans, Tyler Wade and his 29 wRC+ is good enough. You shouldn’t need Manny.
dobsonel
I’m a diehard Yankees fan… Wade sucks!
mrnatewalter
It’s more of a tongue in cheek comment to point how Yankee fans though Tyler Wade was some premier trade chip.
dobsonel
Haha. Those must be the fans who never watched him play. He is so lost at the plate against MLB pitching.
thegreatcerealfamine
No Yankees fan has ever, ever posted that.
mrnatewalter
I assure you, they did.
Even the totally unbiased, level-headed folks at NJ.com listed him as a “starting major-league shortstop”.
ESPN also mentioned him being the #2 piece going back to KC for Whit Merrifield and Danny Duffy (along with Clint Frazier, of all people). They write this nonsense because Yankee fans eat it up.
Melchez
Yankee fans love wade… straight up for trout.
They feel the same about bird.
They felt the same about Sheffield until 30 seconds after he was traded.
bigkempin
So you blast a guy for spelling chief as “cheif” and then you go ahead and comment, “You really want get”……yeah.
YourDaddy
Are you kidding? Last year Torreyes was the 2nd coming whenever his name was brought up in trade talks and Wade was untouchable and going to be a Yankee for life.
ctguy
Sox get Kluber for Swihart
matteste187
If I’m the Mets in packaging conforto to get kluber
sufferforsnakes
You see Kluber going to the Stankees? Hah, you need to clean your glasses.
dobsonel
Why is that so far fetched? Those two teams have traded before.
baseballpun
Cleveland is going to make the playoffs, barring something catastrophic. Why would they make their path to the Series harder?
dobsonel
All depends on the package they get in return. Yankees still have a lot of youth they can deal. Regardless of the team they trade him to, they run the risk of facing him in the playoffs.
baseballpun
Can’t face him in the playoffs before the World Series if he’s in the NL.
JimM
Andujar and Frazier? Other prospects? You need to stay off the narcotics.
dobsonel
It’s funny how many people on these boards keep throwing Andujar’s name around like he’s some long-shot prospect and not runner up for rookie of the year.
thegreatcerealfamine
Because that’s what it’s gonna take to headline a package for Kluber.
dobsonel
I’m not saying it wouldn’t have to be Andujar. But if it is Andujar, they are not also getting Frazier and “some other prospects.”
amaymon
for kluber a top 5 pitcher in baseball that has 3 years of control? Absolutely theyre trading that and probably more
dobsonel
No they won’t. They’d pass and look for other options.
YourDaddy
Its funny how some Yankees fans think RUNNER UP for rookie of the year means something and the worst defense at 3B in decades means nothing. Andujar is a DH in the making. Maybe a 1B. What can be guaranteed is that he won’t be a 3B long. Not even on the Yankees. Like his bat, but being the worst at your job since WWII in the field does not make you particularly valuable.
JimM
Bauer to Pirates for Polanco and Nova.
rrddbb44
And so much more
evilempire28
I think it’s going to take more than that.
bestno5
Not going to happen….. one of them to the brewers for their extra OF and a prospect or two
brewcrewer
you got me sold
Luckybrew
I like this as long Hiura and Burnes aren’t involved.
rrddbb44
Not even close
thelastonetodie
And I’m a jays fan, so it’s just what I think
Phanatic 2022
I can see that
billysbballz
Andujar, Frazier plus for Kluber? I think I rather just offer Andujar and a few top 15 for Bauer and keep Frazier!
Ron marker
Here we go again with the yankeetards wanting everyone available in a trade. The Yankees could have five reincarnated babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig so and still frazzle out early in the playoffs. Yanktards you have to know that there are other teams beside the New York tankers
astick
Kluber to Reds for anyone other than Senzel?
mathblaster
Any conversation starts with Senzel and it doesn’t even begin to end there
Samuel
Reds don’t have enough for Kluber or Bauer.
astick
They have a top 10 farm. Yes, they do.
rdsfan05
Laughable comment right there one of the best farm systems don’t have a enough, but the fact is the reds won’t offer enough that’s the difference
mathblaster
Reds fans have this bizarre notion that their high ceiling prospects in single A will get them a 2x Cy on 3 years of a team friendly deal. Truly staggering to behold
titanic struggle
Exactly rdsfan05…not givin up the farm
titanic struggle
Your ignorance of the Reds farm system is even more staggering to behold…
astick
At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
ksoze
Ok, but a simple wrong would have done just fine, but eh
Samuel
For the Reds to get Kluber or Bauer, they would have to give up 2 of their young position players as well as a quality minor league prospect (look at what the D-Backs got back for one year of Goldschmidt; starting pitchers are in demand more then power hitting 1B’s on longer team-friendly contracts).
Whereas the Reds farm system is wonderful, since the Indians primary objective is a young cost-controlled RH run-producing corner OF that can hit in the middle of the order in 2019 – who do the Reds trade them as one of the 2 centerpieces? Winker? A LH hitter with a 0.4 WAR after a bit over a full year in the majors?
mathblaster
Reds farm system is not MLB ready talent the Indians need to upgrade their lineup in 201
What part of “the Indians aren’t rebuilding” do you guys not understand? They won’t trade Bauer or Kluber for far-off prospects
Priggs89
Senzel is MLB ready, and he’d be the best piece offered by any team, including Andujar. I don’t see any way they move him though.
Samuel
Although a 3B-2B, Senzel is a good 2nd piece.
Now we need a RH hitting corner OF and a pitching prospect.
ksoze
Lol, a good 2nd piece? Buddy, come on. If the Tribe isn’t looking for prospects, then they would not be good trading partners.
mrmariner
Senzel is a top 10 prospect in baseball (maybe top 5, depends on who you ask). How can you call him a 2nd piece? How many top 10 prospects have you seen traded? The answer is a lot less than the amount of ace caliber pitchers traded. He’s a legit centerpiece.
mrmariner
They have 3 of the top 22 prospects in baseball.
m.mlb.com/prospects/2018?list=cin
Are you trolling or just ignorant? How can you say they don’t have enough to get Kluber or Bauer???? They could **technically** get both if they were willing to gut the farm.
Priggs89
If you consider Senzel, one of the most valuable prospects in baseball, a good second piece, I’d love to know who you think can be a centerpiece. Barring major injury, he appears to be about as close to a sure thing as you can get. Low risk, extremely high reward prospects that are near MLB ready don’t grow on trees.
Phanatic 2022
Billy!!!
billysbballz
Andujar is a major league player who almost won rookie of the year and your saying Senzel has more trade value?
DockEllisDee
Reds simply do not have the pieces to get it done, with or without Senzel. Whether through trade or free agency, they’re not going to acquire an established A-list SP. Best scenario they can aim for is over trading for an on-the-cusp SP prospect, buying low and trading for someone coming back from injury, or again buying low and signing a one or two year FA reclamation on a former A or B list SP, again probably coming back from injury. For instance I’ve been wondering about them contacting MIN about Pineda, something along those lines
Priggs89
Reds have more than enough to get it done. Senzel is an elite prospect that could EASILY headline a package for an A-list SP, whether that be Kluber or Thor. Trammell and Greene are also great prospects (though not elite yet). India is a very good prospect too.
hk27
The main problem is timeline, not just “quality.” Cle needs players who can contribute productively in 2019. They are not under the gun to trade Kluber or Bauer if they don’t like what is offered. Presumably, they would prefer not to deal with a likely playoff opponent. These narrow potential matches a lot and I suspect that there’s good chance that nobody will actually get traded because no deal can be struck that satisfies everyone.
Priggs89
Bauer to the Dodgers for Verdugo+ is the start to a deal that’d satisfy everyone.
titanic struggle
DockEllisDee…you’re on the money. I’d be stunned if there were a deal for Kluber involving Senzel, Trammel or Greene. Not that they couldn’t put together a package that the Tribe would accept, but I see them going into a phase where ace starters that require big money aren’t necessary. I see them going after a Harvey and another starter of that type. You’ll see starters going 3-4 possibly 5 innings at the most. Less of a workload on your starters, and more work for middle relievers. They’ve already said they plan on using Iglasias possibly 2-3 innings at a time.
DockEllisDee
Thank you! Nice to see a fellow Redlegs fan with their head screwed on straight. I’m simply blown away by fans that think the organization has “more than enough to get it done”.. maybe they haven’t noticed the fact that the team has played their home games in an empty stadium for the last 2+ seasons, and don’t understand that regardless of whether or not a player has a no trade clause, they still have some say in where they’re sent to if they’ve accrued significant playing time. Hmmm, empty bandbox launching pad? Yeah no thanks. It takes more than pure prospects to pull off a deal.. And like you said, strategy regarding starting pitching is changing. Why clean out the pantry of the farm system for one to two seasons of a marquee player?
Btw love your handle
ksoze
Trammell is arguably a better option for Cleveland’s needs, and is also currently ranked as the 17th overall prospect in baseball. That is where the conversation probably really starts. No way the Reds have a package with Senzel for Kluber.
mathblaster
What are you smoking? Indians are win now. If they trade Kluber they need MLB ready talent, not prospects that haven’t been in AA yet
Ludicrous that they’d trade Kluber with the result making the team much, much, much worse in 2019 because they received no assets to actually play in the MLB
ksoze
Calm down blaster. The Indians started this conversation. They put Kluber’s name out there. It’s rare you find a club trying to shed payroll, and NOT look for prospects in return. Wise up
mrmariner
I feel like Mallex Smith makes perfect sense for the Indians. I’d love to see Kipnis added to the deal as an M’s fan to maximize the prospect return to Seattle. Also, an Alonso-Santana swap could make sense, provided Seattle throws in the necessary $$ to make that happen.
I know they’re trying to get more young talent by trading Kluber or Bauer, but Smith wouldn’t cost too much, and they have to get OF help somehow, whether that be spending $$ or trading prospects.
sufferforsnakes
Uh…..what?
Samuel
lol
Mallex Smith as a centerpiece for a 2-time Cy Young award winner in his prime.
norcalguardiansfan
I don’t think he was suggesting Smith for Kluber. I think he was saying Kipnis plus prospects for Kipnis.
mrmariner
Yep,
“Smith wouldn’t cost too much, and they have to get OF help somehow, whether that be spending $$ or trading prospects.” doesn’t suggest anything about Kluber/Bauer going to Seattle.
mrmariner
Where did I suggest that? Or did you just read Kluber and Smith in the same comment and assume it was a trade proposal? I was suggesting Smith as a trade target for Cleveland, and seperately noting Bauer/Kluber as guys Cleveland could trade.
“Smith wouldn’t cost too much, and they have to get OF help somehow, whether that be spending $$ or trading prospects.” Definitely not suggesting Kluber or Bauer to Seattle. Wouldn’t make sense anyway, given Seattle’s rebuild or whatever you wanna call it.
Samuel
Not sure what you’re getting at…..
Dipoto is trying to dump salary. Why would he take on Kipnis?
The Indians are trying to acquire multiple prospects. Why would they trade any? How much better is Mallex then the platoon of Martin/Allen that the Indians have in CF?
The Indians are trying to lower payroll as well. Regarding Santana – his salary is even worse then Edwin Encarnacion’s, as EE can be bought out for 2020. As for Yonder Alonso-Santana – it would cost the Indians an additional $20m or so over the next 2 years. Again, they’re trying to lower payroll.
mrmariner
I literally asnwered both those questions in the comment….
“I’d love to see Kipnis added to the deal as an M’s fan to maximize the prospect return to Seattle.”
Analysis: I’d love to see it happen, but that doesnt mean it will happen. Wouldn’t mind seeing my team buying prospects.
“Smith wouldn’t cost too much, and they have to get OF help somehow, whether that be spending $$ or trading prospects.”
Analysis: Cleveland needs an OFer, and doesn’t want to spend $$ and is trying to acquire prospects. They need to get another OFer somehow, and it is going to cost $$ or prospects whether they like it or not. Martin, Allen, Naquin, Kipnis just won’t cut it for a team that is very, very likely to win their division. Smith is an option that isn’t too expensive and I am throwing him out there as an option.
Samuel
“They need to get another OFer somehow, and it is going to cost $$ or prospects whether they like it or not.”
OK. I get it. You didn’t read the article and are helplessly lost…….
THE INDIANS ARE LOOKING TO GET A QUALITY RH-HITTING YOUNG CONTROLLED CORNER OF AS A CENTERPIECE IN RETURN FOR ONE OF 2 OF THE TOP 15 AL PITCHERS IN 2018 WAR.
They do NOT have to trade prospects or take on dollars. That’s just stupid.
mrnatewalter
You seem lost in what mrmariner is saying, and it’s probably because you’re so desperate to be heard that you’ve failed to read what he’s saying. I’ll try to help you out.
He’s not suggesting the Mariners are trading for Kluber or Bauer.
He’s not suggesting that a Mallex Smith acquistion has anything to do with those two players.
The reality is, (and this is just my editorialization) Cleveland probably needs more than one MLB outfielder for 2019. They likely won’t receive two in a trade for Kluber or Bauer. Thus, they’ll need to find one elsewhere.
They can then turn to their resources and try and swing a trade for Smith.
Was any of this really that difficult to comprehend? Or were you more interested in breaking out the caps lock that you forgot how to read?
Samuel
I know how to read. Do you?
I have not heard or read anything out of Cleveland about needing 2 OF’s. Kipnis, Martin, Allen, Luplow, and Naquin are all possibilities to start 2019 – a few will be shuffled between AAA once the season starts.
If they were interested in Mallex Smith, they would have talked to the Rays about him.
It’s not me that’s desperate or lost.
mrmariner
Yeah, no kidding they don’t need to attach $ or prospects to Kluber/Bauer to get OF help. It doesn’t take 4 paragraphs and typing in all caps to prove that.
I’m just saying a seperate deal for OF help whether that be a FA or acquiring an OFer like Smith (w/o Bauer and Kluber in the deal obviously- at least to most of us) will require prospects, and acquiring an expensive OFer will require them to take on some $$.
Trading Bauer and Kluber won’t be the only way Cleveland acquires talent this offseason, so I really don’t see what’s so completely unreasonable about throwing Mallex Smith out there as a trade possibility (again, acquiring him wouldn’t require Bauer/Kluber, just a prospect or two)..
YourDaddy
You sure know how to type. But there has never been a single post you have made that makes any sense. Pay attention brah. The man was not talking about Kluber and what HE said makes sense.
mrmariner
Uh… I was just saying Smith is a good target for the Indians, it has nothing to do with Bauer or Kluber at all if you read the full comment. Just noting that adding Smith would require getting rid of young talent- which is the opposite of what they are trying to do by trading kluber/bauer, which is why i noted that smith wouldn’t cost much and they could make it work with a decent prospect in the 5-10 range in their system, maybe another piece.
Smith for Kipnis +prospects
Santana + $$ for Alonso (maybe a prospect, depends on $$ going back)
Kluber/Bauer traded for young talent.
All I was suggesting, seperate ideas.
throwinched10
Mariners rebuilding. No Indians pitcher makes sense except Bieber or Clevinger.
mrmariner
didn’t say anything about Kluber or BAuer to Seattle….
YourDaddy
You are not talking about a trade for Kluber are you? Just a trade for Smith with Kipnis and prospects going to the Mariners for Smith?
OK, that makes a lot of sense and fills a big hole in the Indians lineup.
steelerbravenation
Thames to the Yankees for Gray
Santana to the Braves for Teheran
BamaBraves
Thats the second outfielder in as many articles you made proposals for. Mazara I like. Santana I do not.
braves25
Mazara is not the guy for Atl! In 3 years he has a total war of 1.3 there are a lot of other outfielders much better available.
BamaBraves
He is 23 on a bad team. Put him in ATL with Freeman Acuna and now Donaldson he is atleast a 2-2.5 WAR player.
braves25
The team he plays on does not change his war! All of a sudden he plays better defense? All of a sudden he hits for a higher average? Putting him on better team makes him walk more and strikeout less?
How does he go from being 0.4 WAR a year player to a 2.0 WAR a year player by switching teams?
RunDMC
It is possible Mazara worsens outside of Arlington as he hasn’t had more than a .650 OPS on away games in 2 years, a large decline in hitter friendly home splits.
BamaBraves
First off 0.4 is average his first 3 years. Freddie Freeman the big name he is first 3 year avg was 0.7. Not everyone is an Acuna. Second He doesnt have to play better D just Hit better. His 7.8% walk rate and 20.6% K rate will adjust as he progresses and yes different coaching will attribute to that. His Defense was -4.3 last year, fyi Haniger was -9.0. His last year BSR -1.0, Haniger his was 0.5. His offense last year -3.3, Hanier was +31. Mazara was +1WAR last year, Haniger +4.6WAR. See how that works. More offense = Higher WAR.
Project Mazara at the same -4.3 Def -1.0 BSR increase his offense +6.0, to do that would be natural progression of hitters age 23 = increased walk % decreased K % higher OBP and AVG, And Presto +2 WAR player. Simply stated natural progression will cause him to play better add in better coaching and a fresh start might be surprised. ASK 28 YEAR OLD MITCH HANIGER HOW CHANGING TEAMS CAN TAKE YOU FROM A SCRUB TO A COVETED OFer
Slevin
He makes a different Teheran trade proposal daily.
stansfield123
What’s sadder is that you know that.
braves25
Both if these trades make sense.
stansfield123
The Yankees wouldn’t even be interested in Thames for free. He’s not an upgrade over what they have at 1B. (or DH, obviously).
TheSauceIsBoss
Dozier to the Bucs please
jvent
How about Syndergaard to the Brewers for Corey Ray,Burnes and Knebel.
Fills in 3 needs for the Mets in cf with speed,a rp and a sp.
Than trade Nimmo and Gimenez to Miami for Realmuto.
Sign Pollack,Miller and Keuchel.
Rotation: deGrom,Keuchel,Wheeler,Matz and Burnes.
Lineup: Ray,Pollack,Cano,Alonso,Conforto,Realmuto,Mcneil and Rosario
Closer: Diaz Bp; Knebel,Miller,Lugo,Gsellman,Vargas,Bashlor,Smith
mrmariner
NYM had better get way more than that if they are dealing Syndergaard. Unlikely that either Ray or Burnes are valued top 100 prospects. Knebel is talented, but you have to remember he got sent down in the middle of the season for a reason. Any deal for Syndergaard starts with an elite prospect like Hiura. Heck, I don’t even think adding him to those 3 quite gets it done.
scottstots
Burnes was ranked around 50 last year and then came up to the big leagues and killed it if you don’t think he would be a top 50 prospect you should follow baseball a bit closer.
mrmariner
He was ranked top 50 *last year*. He was ranked 69, 74, 80 by MLB, BA, and BP respectively at the beginning of 2018. He proceded to have an ERA over 5 in AAA as a starter, and was moved to the bullpen. I still definitely think he’s a good player, and can see an argument for him inside the top 100, alhtough I would disagree with it personally.
That said, I think you are just being a troll. He pitched very well out of the bullpen, not denying that. But if you have a 5 ERA as a starter and get moved to the bullpen, your stock is going down a little. You don’t see many relief pitchers in the top 100 do you? I still think he can be a starter, but he’s not a top 100 prospect for me at least, but if you think he is, I can respect that although I disagree.
Jason Korth
The only reason Burnes has an ERA over 5 was due to Colorado Springs, he was lights out for the Brewers in their run last year. I’d rather keep that package, because that’s a core the Brewers can build around for years.
mrmariner
Yeah true, I don’t think that AAA performance proves too much… I just think there’s nothing wrong with moving him from the 69-80 range to outside the top 100 in terms of prospect rankings.
augold5
Burnes would easily be a T100 prospect if he didn’t exceed his prospect status. He struggled is the most hitter friendly park in the minors, but has been masterful everywhere else including in the majors. Ray is arguably a borderline T100 prospect given his 20/20 year at AA. Given how dominant Knebel was in September and in the Playoffs, his value is sky high right now, he’s also cheap and controllable for three years. Wouldn’t surprise me if he could fetch 2 top prospects on his own if the Brewers wanted to trade him. That deal would definitely get the Mets talking and Hiura wouldn’t needed to be included
dray16
Syndergaard isn’t getting dealt anyway so it doesn’t really matter.
Alex S.
As a Brewer fan. I would not send Ray, Burnes, and Knebel for Syndergaard. Burnes and Knebel will remain a Brewer. I love Ray but hes oir best trade chip OF. I’d rather see us trade Braun and bring up Ray instead
YourDaddy
Another delusional Mets fan. Well, I guess if they weren’t delusional they would be Yankees fans.
The Mets are going to keep Syndergaard because no GM is stupid enough to give up anything close to what the Mets are asking for a guy that has 32 starts in 2 seasons and no season in which he has not missed games because of trips to the DL.
Can’t get a Sale type return for a guy that has averaged 3.0 WAR the past 3 seasons. Got to show he can actually stay healthy to get a good return for him.
bobtillman
It’s amazing how my suggestion 2 months ago that the Tribe couple Kipnis and Kluber/Bauer that was met with so much rancor and derision on this board, now seems to be a fait accompli. It might happen; the Indians want it to happen. Now it’s a question of whether they can sell it.
By doing so, they carve up to 32M off their payroll, and STILL win the AL Central. If all they get back is Rob Refsnyder and Blake Swihart, who cares? You can do lots of stuff with 32M, both for 2019 and beyond. It’s a very intelligent “roster re-imagining”, moving resources into spots where they should be, instead of where they are now.
And they’ll get more than bit players for Kipnis/Kluber-Bauer. An they’ll win the division in any event. The Yanks fit here; as do the Dodgers (Kipnis @ 2b). So do the Braves (Kipnis as corner OF). Those are pretty good starting points.
Samuel
bob;
You didn’t read the article……
They’re not attaching Kipnis. They have the money to keep him through 2019, then he comes off the books. They want multiple young, cheap, players under control for 2019 and for after Kipnis leaves. That’s the whole point of making an established starter available.
Indians are taking a step back in 2019. They’ll make the playoffs. If they think they’re missing a player to get deep in the playoffs, they’ll trade for one late in the season with prospects…..or who knows, maybe Kipnis or EE will be in demand. If they feel they cannot get past the Sox, Yankees, and Astros, then they play the season out with what they have and in addition to Kipnis, Encarnacion is off the books after a buyout.
bobtillman
Interesting that Heyman, Morosi and now Rosenthal have now gone out of their way to shoot down the notion of Kluber/Kipnis……so that means it’s been discussed.
The Indians have done an exceptional job (even considering their division) of morphing revenues not much greater than the Rays’ into playoff appearances. The train kind of went off the rails in 2018, and adjustments have to be made. Again, it’s not monopoly money, it’s real money.
Samuel
“Interesting that Heyman, Morosi and now Rosenthal have now gone out of their way to shoot down the notion of Kluber/Kipnis……so that means it’s been discussed.”
bob;
Lots of things are discussed. But losing out on prospects to dump a bad contract is not needed.
The Indians may well be the top ML organization for developing starting pitching. 4 of the top 15 AL pitchers in WAR for 2018 were Indians. They can trade Kluber or Bauer, move the other 3 up one, and have their choice of 3 pitchers in the high minors to take over the 5th rotation spot……if Salazar doesn’t take it.
They need some young, potential impact position players. The Indians FO is very good at looking out 2-5 years and staying within budget. They’re not going to compromise contending beyond 2019 to make a big run, only to go into a 3-5 year rebuild. It’s simply not their philosophy. Other FO’s might.
Francona may be the best manager in MLB, surely one of the top 3. He will get something out of Kipnis in 2019 – not $17m worth, but something.
The current Indians organization does not panic. Like all MLB franchises, they have business plans and within them, contingency plans. They’re sitting on 2 healthy, controlled at reasonable salaries, elite starting pitchers. They’re holding more cards then Scott Boras.
jvent
OR. Syndergaard to the Dodgers for Verdugo,Puig,Wood and Ruiz.
Than trade Nimmo,Frazier,D.smith and a minor leaguer to Cleveland for Kluber.
Sign Miller and Ottavino
Rotation: deGrom,Kluber,Wood,Wheeler and Matz.
Lineup: Verdugo,Mcneil,Cano,Alonso,Conforto,Puig,Rosario and Ruiz.
pinstripes17
Ruiz might not even be called up this season
Rebuild it
You really think that bunch of extra parts would get you kluber? What a joke
mrmariner
Definitely will take more than Nimmo, although he is a legit centerpiece. Frazier/Smith don’t have a whole lot of trade value.
billysbballz
Indians are being smart. Putting Kluber at 32yo with signs of regressing and asking for a huge prospect return is smart. Saying that I think it’s dumb for any team to give up a huge return for a pitcher who has been getting beat recently in the big game and has shown signs that age is creeping in. Maybe you get one more very good solid year, maybe 2 out of him? I would much rather trade for Bauer regardless of his character concerns! I feel the upside is better and he is 27yo in his prime. The cost will be less as well then Kluber. Some twitter comments have made him a target for ridicule but I love his moxy. His contract demands also makes him a bit risky in that he only wants one year deals? Trading Andujar (Roy runner up) plus a few top 15 prospects should be enough for Bauer and if not move on. Forget Kluber and the asking price. I rather change direction and look into Robby Ray or even a Grienke and Ray package!
sportsnut969
Cleveland is looking for a everyday answer to either corner outfield issue and Nimmo is more of a platoon player so I do not see this as a answer for Cleveland.
mrmariner
Nimmo just had a 4.4 WAR season. Don’t really think he’s a platoon player.
sportsnut969
Brandon Nimmo batted 151 times against lefties and hit 234 while hitting 275 against Righties in 384 At bats kinda screams out Platoon player to me.
This guy was thought to be untouchable until the Mets found out he cannot hit left handed pitching.
I think our front office is smart enough to pass on this guy seeing all the left handed pitching we see against the other Central Division.teams.
barrybonds1994
Thames also has a player option for 2020
angler
Send Keon Broxton to the Braves to be pegged as the 4th OF. He would fit in perfectly – his enthusiasm is contagious.
baseballpun
Taking all factors in consideration, would you rather your team trade for Kluber or Greinke?
bobtillman
Now THAT’S a heck of a question…..would depend on the coin D-backs are willing to take back.
baseballpun
I honestly think I’d rather my team (Cardinals) trade for Greinke. Kluber’s better for sure, but the prospect haul going to CLE is just going to be huge, I think.
bobtillman
It’s tough. You’re talking about 2 guys who offer so much more than just their squiggly numbers; they’re both transformative talents. And (to quote Atlanta GM AA (from tonight’s “roundtable on MLB), both make other players better.
But hey, as a Cards fan you just got one of those guys (Goldy).. You want two??? Leave some for the other guy.
Rebuild it
I think id rather my team (Braves) spend the extra prospect capital for Kluber. He just seems less likely to break in the next 3 years and is owed $50ish million less over the life of the contract. Now if the dbacks eat 30-40mil AND we dont have to give up the farm, maybe i take Greinke
Blue_Painted_Dreams_LA
It depends on the team. If you’re the Dodgers and all things being equal, Kluber no doubt. If you’re a team without the prospect capital and just need a backend starter then Grienke makes some sense. The simple fact is if you pear down Kluber’s innings and have him fresh going down the stretch his stuff still plays in the playoffs. Grienke’s is questionable especially as you get deeper in the playoffs where teams don’t chase and strike zone shrinks a bit. His stuff is no longer elite enough to live in the zone. You also have to take into account his age. 2017 didn’t seem to be an aberration. If you spit and didn’t chase forcing him in the zone well…
stansfield123
Kluber, Bauer and Kipnis to the Yankees, for Severino, Frazier, Sonny Gray and Loaisiga.
simschifan
Jesus
Slevin
For the love of God stop it please!
kenly0
Would never happen. But, I think it’s pretty even.
hockeyjohn
That is not even in the slightest.
bernbabybern
Dude, they aren’t trading Severino, come on now.
Slevin
Dude he trolls.
hockeyjohn
Stop with the nonesense. Cleveland will not trade both of them. They may not trade at all unless they get what they want and need.
beyou02215
I don’t understand why the Indians want to trade either of those guys. Why substantially weaken your rotation?
stansfield123
Because they will win anyway, next year. But they will stop winning in three years….unless they invest in the future now.
PhilliesFan012
Kluber to Mil for Santana, hiura, Burnes and Nottingham ?
scottstots
Counter offer Aguilar, Santana and Peralta for Kluber
PhilliesFan012
Personally I feel like Milwaukee says no to any deal that involves Aguilar, his bat behind yelich is huge, but if the brewers offer it I’d take it.
sid
No offense, the Brewers had an awesome year, but Aquilar was an Indian for a long time. He succeeds on the Brewers because they are an NL team (the JVs). If he were back on the Indians he would be another AAAA player who they wouldnt have a spot for. Im proud to see Jesus do well, but he is a good player on the Brewers, he is “just a guy” if he is on the Indians
hockeyjohn
No to your counter offer
Luckybrew
As a Brewer fan I would do this trade.
Luckybrew
I would not do this as proposed. I would not put Hiura and Burnes in this and would sub Peralta an Stokes Jr.
goldenmisfit
Kluber probably goes to the Yankees for a package headlined by Florio
sportsnut969
the only way the Indians trade Kluber to the Yankees is if the trade looks something like this
Kluber and Kipnis and Alonso
for
Estevan Florial ,Miguel Andújar, Jonathan Loaisiga, Clint Frazier, Deivi Garcia, Greg Bird.
The Yankees would have to bend way over for the Indians to deal Kluber to them and not only give up now and future players but also take on a couple more saleries then and only then they might say how can we pass up on not making that deal.
I believe that depending on the returns for whomever gets dealt first you just might see them both get traded I believe Kluber will be dealt to the Dodgers for Bellinger I also believe this could end up as one of those deals where both teams could exchange prospects of need The Indians being heavy in pitching prospects and The Dodgers being heavy in the position prospect area.
I will be shocked if either Kluber or Bauer gets traded to a American League Contending team.
Just a thought
bobtillman
Let’s not forget that the best part of Kluber from a contract point of view is that it’s escapable. One guaranteed year; 2 club options. So if his arm falls off next year, you send him on his merry way…no harm, no foul. I’ve made the Chris Archer comparison (contract-wise) before. It’s really a GM’s dream.
Nobody’s a soothsayer. You could have an outstanding pitcher at a reasonable rate for 3 years, and, if something (injury, poor performance) happens, so what? And you get to make that choice twice. That alone dramatically drives up his value.
jonsteele
I know they probably won’t, but I’d like to see the Cardinals try and swing a trade for Kluber if they’ll hear it. I know they got pitching, but he’s a bonafide ace with a track record of pitching deep into games.
I’m not sure how it’d match up or if it even would but if I’m cardinals I at least see about the price.
sufferforsnakes
After following along on this comment thread, I can’t wait to see what happens at the meetings……and to see how many people were not even close on their bizarre trade proposals.
carlos15
Not sure if you can call Bauer an ace after one good season following several mediocre ones. Kluber is an ace. Bauer is a mid rotation arm.
norcalguardiansfan
In his defense, Bauer’s FIP was better than his ERA in the two seasons before this one and his other peripherals were pretty darn good – and trending quickly in the right direction. Both his numbers and the personal observation indicate that he is figuring out this major league pitching thing.
He’s 28. Two controllable years. Dominating this year. At least as good as Patrick Corbin.
tbonedbag
T-bone, D-bag…
Polish Hammer
We already have a T Bone, you’re going to have to go by Koko.
greatone14
I’d love to see the Pirates trade for Bauer but it won’t happen if we locked him up with that rotation bumping Nova out in a trade or simply moving him to the pen would be one of the top rotations if healthy. Realistically the Pirates won’t do anything at the meetings and just sign Mercer or Tim Beckham before spring if they are available.
goldenmisfit
I understand Cleveland fans want to believe their team is in win now mode but that could not be farther from the truth. They realize the roster as constructed cannot compete with Houston, Boston and New York which is why they are trying to unload their half the contracts.
norcalguardiansfan
The Indians are – at least publicly – trying to both win now and prepare for the future. That’s why they want controllable players, but not low level prospects.
I think they believe that they will win the central even without Kluber or Bauer, but will not have much of a chance in the playoffs without some major luck. So, why not send off one of those guys for controllable players/high level prospects and take their chances in October. Increases the odds of a soft landing once Lindor leaves.
YourDaddy
Last season the Indians made $17 million for getting swept in the ALDS. That pays for Kluber this year. The roster as constituted today is far and away the best in the AL Central and they are almost guaranteed a playoff spot and another payday like last season even if they trade away one of Bauer or Kluber. They don’t have to compete with Houston, Boston, and the Yankees. They just have to get to the playoffs. Anything can happen once they do.
GarryHarris
Cory Kluber and Jason Kipnis to the Red Sox for C Blake Swihart, 1B Josh Ockimey, P Matthew Gorst, OF Rusney Castillo, P Denyi Reyes,
mrmariner
Can’t tell if you are joking or have no clue about what you are talking about.
Polish Hammer
My vote is for no clue…Castillo? Really? LOL!
corey5kersh22
The only players I recognize from the Red Sox are Swihart and Castillo. Prospect and international free agent busts aren’t gonna get an ace.
Z-A 2
If all it takes is Kipnis, heck the Phillie can absorb that for Kluber.
norcalguardiansfan
I don’t think the article said the Indians were offering Kluber and Kipnis for the savings in salary alone or for very little. It said the opposite, in fact.
Z-A 2
No it said, they think the return would be less for a team taking on Kipnis. So they don’t think they’d be paired b/c they want a monster return.
rmullig2
Bauer and Kipnis to the Yankees for German, Kahnle, and Wade.
hockeyjohn
Just stop. Yankee fans are the worst.
Slevin
He’s not a Yankee fan!
rmullig2
Bauer is not Kluber, he does not fetch the same premium. When you attach the Kipnis money to him then getting a back end starter, a reliever, and a utility player with upside is a fair trade.
hockeyjohn
If that is you offer you don’t get Bauer. Wade and Kahnle add NOTHING.
DockEllisDee
smdh and facepalm… and if you are indeed a troll then you’re a decent one I took the bait
DannyQ3913
Phils got a ton of cash. I want Baur Jude cause of his Twitter and send Kipnis for a super utility
DannyQ3913
Just cause of his
cheesesteak
Cleveland already dumped Frazier for being an adolescent ginger. Why do people keep including him in Kluber packages?
Polish Hammer
Because he’s no longer that adolescent they drafted out of high school and is now a man?
driftcat28 2
Because he’s still good at baseball? Lol
JKB 2
Because he is exactly what Cleveland needs, a young controllable outfielder with good upside.
YourDaddy
Kluber is going into his age 33 season and he has over 1100 IP on his arm the last 5 seasons. While he is far from over the hill, I don’t think I would bet the farm on an aging pitcher with that many innings.
Of course, that kind of pitching load did not stop the Astros from picking up a 34 year old Verlander. Kluber will cost more in prospects than Verlander because he is coming off a Cy Young in 2017 and an outstanding year in 2018, is 2 years younger, and has an extra year of control,
Two 50 FV prospects and a 45 FV catcher was what the Astros gave up for Verlander so that should give you at least a starting point for negotiations. I figure it will take two 55+FV prospects and a 50 FV prospect for Kluber.
If he is going to the Yankees, it’s going to hurt a bit more because they are quite likely to face each other in the playoffs. Figure something like Florial, Loaisiga, and Acevedo. I don’t know what the Indians biggest needs are, but that seems like a package that would be accepted. Or a package that other Yankee fans would hate, Gleyber Torres and a MLB ready starting pitcher like Loaisiga or Adams. If Kluber is to be a Yankee, it’s going to hurt.
Polish Hammer
Bet the farm? This is a trade rumor about one of the top pitchers in the world and signed to a pretty low contract, not some team ponying up $200+ million on a free agent deal.
JKB 2
YourDaddy, so you would not trade for him, but on the other hand its ok? So basically you have no opinion and are taking both sided.
titanic struggle
Williams comments about Scooter and extensions leads me to believe it won’t get done. Likely hold onto him until the break and see if anyone needs a 2nd baseman for the stretch run. They’re after a CF, Senzel to 2nd..
Brad Connelly
Can you blame the Reds for being skeptical about extensions? Scooter should get one, but it makes sense to wait until the deadline. Need pitching yet same thing every year. Nobody wants to pitch in GABP.
titanic struggle
Not at all, they should wait, I wouldn’t be surprised to see them sell high on him at this point though. Why pay him when you have a cost controlled kid in Senzel who can play the position.
driftcat28 2
I’ve read enough keyboard GM comments here to know it’ll take Florial, Torres, Andujar, Judge, Severino, Chapman, + 2 more top 5 prospects, + Derek Jeter’s rookie season, plus the 1977, 1998, & 2000 World Series titles. And the Yankees should be thankful that’s all they have to give up.
driftcat28 2
To get Kluber, of course 🙂
Bruin1012
I’m guessing that the Indians aren’t trading Kluber. It will be Bauer that they move and he will be moved to the NL probably the Dodgers. Verdugo will headline the deal. Cleveland needs an MLB ready outfielder and I don’t see them trading with the Yankees.
fieldsj2
I really hope the Reds extend Gennett. He’s a hometown guy who the fans love. I’m not sure if what he’s done the last 2 years is sustainable but hopefully there’s a hometown discount involved..
DockEllisDee
as someone who’s been able to watch him in person I’m of the strong opinion that he is the real deal, and that his production is sustainable.. Hometown product or not
(which I LOVE the fact that he is), he is definitely worthy of an extension
Ski to Coors
As a Rockies fan, Harper is my plan A. Puig plan B. Domingo Santana would be plan C, although I’d have to do some research to decide if he’s really a better option than a Desmond/Tapia platoon.
Soxman81
I think the Indians are making a big mistake by trading either Kluber or Bauer. Their window to win is now. Soft division, strong rotation, and two superstar position players in their prime. They’re a piece or two away from winning a WS. Why break that up for a rebuild that could take years and last long enough to waste the prime of both Lindor and Ramirez? Plenty of time to field a cheap bad team later. Now is the time to go for it Cleveland.
sixpacktwo
I would trade Gennett to the Yankees for grey (era 4.90) and hope he rebounds, Move Senzel to 2nd.. Gennett one year for Gray one year.