The Reds are planning to non-tender center fielder Billy Hamilton, reports C. Trent Rosecrans of The Athletic (via Twitter). He’ll become a free agent and will be eligible to sign with any team once the move is official.
Hamilton, who turned 28 in September, was arbitration-eligible for the final time this winter and had been projected by MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz to earn $5.9MM in 2019. Instead, he’ll hit the open market in search of a new organization after spending the first 10 seasons of his professional career in the Cincinnati organization.
It’s a surprising bit of news for Hamilton even in spite of the defensive standout’s ongoing struggles at the plate. Reds owner Bob Castellini has previously gone on record to state that he hoped Hamilton would be a Red “forever” (Twitter link via Jerry Crasnick), and the organization has rebuffed trade interest in the speedster in each of the past two offseasons.
It seems, however, that the organization simply no longer feels that the benefit of Hamilton’s glove and premium baserunning skills are worth the lack of offense that has become synonymous with Hamilton’s name. Though he was long touted as one of the game’s premier prospects due to his 80-grade speed, Hamilton has mustered just a .244/.297/.332 batting line in five seasons since becoming a regular with Cincinnati back in 2014. That production is even more questionable when considering the fact that Hamilton plays his home games in Cincinnati’s Great American Ball Park, which is one of baseball’s most hitter-friendly settings; both OPS+ and wRC+ indicate that when adjusting for that hitter-friendly home park, Hamilton’s offense has been a full 30 percent worse than that of a league-average hitter.
To his credit, Hamilton has stolen more than 50 bases on four different occasions and, even in a “down” year in that regard, swiped 34 bags last season. He’s also delivered a whopping 51 Defensive Runs Saved in Center Field, which is largely backed up by a +45.5 Ultimate Zone Rating in his big league career. Statcast’s newest outfield defensive metric, Outs Above Average, only goes back three seasons but still feels that Hamilton has recorded a staggering 52 outs more than a league-average center fielder would generate, based on catch probability data.
At 28 years of age, it seems unlikely that Hamilton will ever develop into a bona fide offensive threat, though it’s certainly not out of the question that a change of scenery could bring about some improvement at the plate. He’ll likely have no shortage of interested teams inquire with his representatives at Wasserman, and the sheer extent of his baserunning and defensive value makes him a likely candidate to land a big league deal elsewhere.
For the Reds, the move opens up roughly $6MM of payroll next season — a relatively small but not insignificant sum as the organization aggressively pursues rotation upgrades. Cincinnati is reportedly even intrigued by top-of-the-market options, most recently being tied to Dallas Keuchel, though it remains to be seen if they can convince a top-tier name to sign on to pitch at Great American Ball Park for a club that hasn’t had a winning season since 2013. Certainly, the added payroll space can’t hurt.
Of course, the Reds now also have a need in center field that may need to go outside the organization to fill. There’s been talk of moving top prospect Nick Senzel to the outfield, though injuries limited the former No. 2 overall pick to 44 games in 2018 and his pro experience has come exclusively in the infield. Scott Schebler has a bit of experience in center field but has traditionally been more of a corner option, while Jesse Winker has been regarded primarily as a left fielder himself. Phil Ervin and Jose Siri represent other options, but given that the Reds hope to take a step toward being more competitive in 2019, it seems likely that they’ll pursue a more established option.
xabial
Classic Reds’ move, like what they did with Cozart
jdgoat
How do they correlate?
mattp
They don’t.
thegreatcerealfamine
Not the same.
xabial
They misjudged their trade value letting them walk away for nothing. Cozart should have gotten QO (Angels gave him more years and $) and Hamilton should’ve been traded when he was productive stealing 50+ bases evry yr, controlled through Arb
joeshmoe11
You’re assuming there was a legitimate return for him. I’m going out on a limb and guessing they’ll try to bring him back on minor league deal
RedRooster
I feel like the Giants have been linked to Billy pretty constantly. Whatever they were offering had to have been worth more than the nothing the Reds will now get for him.
nste23
Why would you trade Hamilton when he was young and still productive?
RedRooster
Because he wasn’t productive and because they were never going to contend before they lost him
SoCalBrave
if Cozart had a QO attached to him, he doesn’t get that contract and he would have returned to the Reds. You’re suggesting that they should have traded Hamilton when he was a rookie? because that’s the last time he would have had some value. It’s easy to criticize with hindsight. But not very smart to do so.
RedRooster
Plenty of teams (particularly SF) have expressed interest in him since then
xabial
Last year, one year ago, was 2017 off-season. He was coming off back-to-back seasons with:
58 SB in 2016, and 59 SB in 2017 worth +2.8 WAR +1.0 WAR (bbref) and— +2.9 WAR, +1.2 WAR (fangraphs)
davidcoonce74
But literally all of that WAR is baserunning and defense. He just can’t hit, at all. He’d be a terrific pinch-runner/defensive replacement, but most teams don’t have roster spots for that kind of player, especially one who makes 6 million dollars a year. Hamilton is a player out of time; his skill set would have been valued much more highly in the 1920s or 30s or 70s or 80s.
Ry.the.Stunner
He’s never been “productive” other than base stealing. His OBP is constantly under .300, which makes his base stealing much less valuable. His average wRC+ as a Red is 70, which is terrible. For a guy who leads off and has such speed, he’s still never broken the 100 run mark in a season.
Samuel
xabial;
He’s in a class with Peter Bourjos and Bryan Buxton.
Would make a nice pinch runner and/or 2 inning defensive replacement for a stacked team in the playoffs.
rdsfan05
My prediction is the reds didn’t like the 6 mil for Hamilton, so they will sign him for less with a two three year extension because they know he won’t start anymore and be more of a bench pitch run candidate
scottgreenthetriplemachine
The Giants have wanted this guy the past 2 seasons and don’t have a true center fielder currently. With his defensive skills roaming the pitcher friendly AT&T park is certainly not out of the question. I see Billy in a Giants Uniform in 2019. He’d be a stop gap while Steven Duggar continues to develop. plus the Giants have 6 million for CF without a problem.
jekporkins
Giants tried to get him last year but the Reds demanded their top (and only) good prospect, Heliot Ramos, in return. Giants thankfully said no.
Colorado Red
Not productive on the offensive side of the ball
wrigleywannabe
2 WAR is starter level. One of the years you push. He wasn’t even that
johnrealtime
There’s no way Billy Hamilton signs a minor league deal
bigkempin
Cozart was a FA and the Reds didn’t want to risk the $17.9M payday. Hamilton isn’t worth what his arb raise would’ve been. His best role would be a pinch runner/defensive replacement type player.
baseballpun
Like Cozart, Hamilton should’ve been traded, is what I assume the point is.
RedRooster
They waited until the last possible second to try and trade Cozart and at that point no one was interested in rental shortstops. I remember the Padres and Mariners were interested in acquiring him during the 16-17 offseason. Idk what was offered but it couldn’t have done much worse than hurting the Reds draft position for 2018 and then leaving for no return.
hiflew
What I heard was that the Mariners had a deal to send Luiz Gohara for Cozart done, but the Reds took long with the Mets/Jay Bruce trade and the deadline passed before they could get the paperwork in.
Classic Reds mismanagement.
floridagators15
So you heard or you know for a fact?
RedRooster
Regardless of whether or not the Gohara thing was true, the Reds didn’t have to get Gohara to benefit from the trade. All they had to get was “something.”
ckeen1966
Zack Cozart became a free agent and the Reds didn’t offer a Qualifying Offer which would have been roughly $17.5 million. Not the same, but this move shouldn’t be such a surprise at all. He is a career .246/.296 avg/obp and was worse in 2018. Why would ya pay $5.5m for that?
T_Rexx2
His defense and base running is elite. He’s not an everyday player but if used correctly he’s worth 5.5 mil to a team with some flexibility
wrigleywannabe
No
3rdStrikeLooking
…since you are SUCH an expert on small market economics…..
Maybe instead of zipping to the bottom of article and start typing, you read and comprehend and think. Based on the first comment, you have not the slightest clue of small team economics.
3rdStrikeLooking
…since you are SUCH an expert on small market economics…..
Maybe instead of zipping to the bottom of article and start typing, you read and comprehend and think. Based on the first comment, you have not the slightest clue of small team economics.
xabial
I comprehend Hamilton sucks now and didn’t warrant Arb. especially for a small-market team… it seems to be a chronic problem with the Reds. (Still upswing team, sorry for the parenthesis) redrooster put it best in post below. And I don’t act nor claim to be an expert. Just one man giving his opinion.. I’m willing to learn.
Harry pness
Learn by reading. Not typing.
xabial
Most reports were surprised and suggested the Reds were fools for not tendering Cozart a QO, or trading him for ANYTHING. Try me Harry
3rdStrikeLooking
Reports calling the Reds fools? Oh really? Love to see that.
Did you even read THIS article??? Judging by your aptitude to be first comment, usually with inane stuff, the answer is no.
Again, instead of being first, learn how small markets operate, get a clue, and push the keyboard away. Just try to resist…..
Harry pness
In my state it’s against the law to fight with minors
xabial
The thing is though, I never look for a fight. The fight finds me. Nothing I’ve read praised the Reds in any shape or form for Cozart.
I was hoping to hear different from the actual fans, not get attacked by more people
3rdStrikeLooking
You are such an undeserved victim. Wow. Go start a “Go Fund Me.”
Maybe, just maybe, if you would resist the urge to not comment on every article within minutes with
-sentence fragments
-overused parenthesis
-restating of stats already in article
-and general inane comments like the first comment, where 20 downvotes tells you something
…just maybe “the fight wouldnt find you.”
xabial
My apology for parenthesis to you in first reply was sincere.
Harry pness
Mlbtr can we please limit comments from some users? If you get 10 downvotes on a comment your account should be disabled for a week. Would promote more intellectual conversations and limit the bashing. Thank you
jakec77
Given the way people downvote on this site, that wouldn’t work.
If you write something as simple as “Yankees already have too many OF’s on their 25 man roster” you’ll get 10 downvotes.
R.D.
so. compelled. to downvote this.
RedRooster
That system would be so easy to abuse it’s not even funny
xabial
It already is being abused… The worst people are ones who dont even bring up argument, and try to use “votes” as the only defense.
Harry’s case, he’s taking it a step further.— In my case, always have people down vote me, before 5 min mark is even up.
Harry pness
You comment within 30 seconds of each post. You read the headline and click on links to players on baseball reference and regurgitate their advanced stats. We downvote and upvote to give you an answer if your comment was worth typing or not. In most cases you’re better off just reading only
xabial
Give me a break. And still wouldve taken s*** if re-stated anything in article, saying u didn’t add anything new “just summarized “wanted to be first”
Some of you NEVER be happy w/ ANYTHING I do and manipulating vote system means nothing cuz this board is filled with smart ppl who know it’s personal, you’re allowed free reign to take things on another level
I’m not going to change for ANY of you! Ya’ll just haters
arcticvampire
That username asking to limit commenters …
Rich..
Harry pness
Are you offended? I did forget it is 2018
its_happening
Harry P if you do not like the rules for MLBTR you can leave anytime. Although I’m not offended by your stupid name/handle, I’m sure MLBTR could censor it.
I’m also sure the door from your moms basement isn’t locked so feel free to enjoy the outside world. The next time you bring any “intellectual conversations” will be your first.
Harry pness
Found one of xabials burner accounts. There’s quite a few!
davidcoonce74
This is a suggestion from a person who is using the name “harry pness” to comment on this site.
Harry pness
Must be a real shame for you that you can’t watch Harry pness at your favorite coffee shop anymore. You’ll have to wait till you get home
politicsNbaseball
Let’s just censor the people we don’t agree with, how could that go wrong
Harry pness
“Politicsnbaseball” we need to censor politics out of baseball
WestCoastSoxFan
How about an “ignore” or “mute” button? Every other site has this. Problem solved. They also need to add favorites on here, as well, so we can follow posts of people we like. Basic stuff.
impapad57
…or maybe MLBTR could cancel the accounts for those with an infantile account name like “Harry Pness”. Are you like 13?
Dock_Elvis
Man you really do like to just say stuff. The dude hit .220 with a .270ish obp. If this is your idea of typical Reds..then sounds good to me.
xabial
You missed point… There any fans in baseball who don’t know who Billy Hamilton is? They could’ve gotten something, instead of nothing when he was performing. This feels like a recurring problem. Only baseballpun and rooster got me
Not hating on the Reds… I hope I’m wrong!
Nick4747
The point is pretty clear that they could’ve got something for Hamilton even just traded as a pinch runner @ this past deadline. They could’ve traded cozart last trade deadline for something they didn’t. Instead they get nothing knowing they’re gone after the season when you’re out of it. Not to mention any salary relief you could’ve gained.
Dock_Elvis
Your point came off like about a zillion new people that show up here and jack their comments in. You could have stated that IN your comment….do you realize as a Reds fan I constantly see people say this same thing who have no real connection to the team..even their really casual fans…its just bash away. Yeah..you dont get to be a mlb gm…bask in your time on mlbtr..make statements that dont encourage dialogue. See I’ll enjoy this…I stopped coming here a long long time ago. Guessing you didnt realize what you said then went and did some research to have something to justify it. Man make a clear statement is all…go read your own damn comment
3rdStrikeLooking
So you go to arbitration, pay the guy, just so you can trade a pinch runner??? Wow. Just wow.
Dont ever comment again until you get a clue.
WestCoastSoxFan
Reds finally figure out what we knew all along: You can’t steal First.
mfdesquire
With Cozart, they couldn’t get a decent return for him at any point in 2017, as no one needed a rental shortstop.. If you know a player will decline a QO, then yes, you make one. But in Cozart’s case, he would have accepted the QO ($18M in one year is better than $38M for 3 at his age), and you’d have been stuck spending $18M on a one-year player who was no better than Peraza this year and didn’t fit into the team’s future plans. The team (for once) was right, and the experts were wrong.
With Hamilton, I’m surprised they didn’t trade him for a warm body last year just to dump his salary. He is dead weight on a team like the Reds, as his stats make him basically a replacement player. If a team like the the Rockies, Tigers, or Astros (which have huge CF areas in their home parks) is good, he makes sense. That’s especially true for an AL team like DET or HOU, b/c you have the DH, so you can afford one light-hitting defensive specialist. But for the Reds, with a smallish CF at GABP, he’s pointless.
As it is, of course they won’t spend $6M on him. I wouldn’t spend half that.
RedRooster
Mariners tried to trade for Cozart at the deadline in 2016 and again in the offseason. Padres also showed interest during the 16-17 offseason. Mariners apparently offered Luiz Gohara? Gohara was probably overrated at the time but he can’t have done much worse than hurting the Reds’ draft position for 2018 and then leaving for no return.
I really don’t understand what the hold-up was on trading Cozart. The Reds weren’t going to contend in 2017, he wasn’t going to sign an extension and his trade value went down with each day he got closer to FA.
stratmjg
Cozart player like 10 games with us..
And I didn’t see it
I think we over payed
bigballerbrand99
Man they blew their chance to move him last year…
xabial
My point exactly Thank you
Dock_Elvis
Man you’re a douche….who cares about your point…which you only made clear once getting slapped around.
gocincy
Friendly suggestion: post 75% fewer comments than you’ve been posting. You’re getting so much hate because you comment on everything. The world needs high quality commentary, not high quantity commentary.
3rdStrikeLooking
He had near zero value LAST year. So what are you going get? I want to know, Mr Expert.
The fact that Mr Clueless agrees, should tell you something.
RedRooster
It’s not like whoever they could have gotten last year would have done any worse than the nothing they ended up getting for him.
ghostrobot
This is a bizarre move what do the mouthbreathers at mlbtr think about this
nmendoza7
Overdue.
jcraft21
Agreed. Great defender, that’s all
When he got on base he didn’t run nearly enough
Cant pay 6 million for a 4th outfielder
Smart overdue move
WestCoastSoxFan
The Yankees pay $22M for Ellsbury to be their 5th OF!
batty
Not purposely. The Reds would be paying Hamilton on purpose for that role.
AZPat
Are you kidding me?
fasbal1
I would think teams would be lining up for him just based on speed alone.
gocrazyfolks
Absolutely. He’s Terrance Gore with enough of a bat and defense to possibly start, or at the very least be a really good bench piece.
joeshmoe11
He should never start. Now as a bench piece, absolutely worth a roster spot
wrigleywannabe
he has zero bat
thegreatcerealfamine
Buy low move for the Yankees.
baseballpun
I hope the Yankees are able to expand to a 75-man roster to make room for every available player in baseball.
Adam6710
There was an old article from the Onion about that.
sports.theonion.com/yankees-ensure-2003-pennant-by…
It somewhat ironically singles out A-Rod and his $252M contract being moved to New York.
thegreatcerealfamine
They’re certainly taking up space in your noggin..huh
baseballpun
It was a joke about how every time any player is made available someone on MLBTR says “great fit for the Yanks.”
This has got to be the angriest, most sensitive comment board outside a right-wing political site.
timm-2
he would be a great fit for the Yankees!!!!!
juuuuust kidding
I do wonder if the Mets would be interested though only because I’ve been listening to people say they should get Mailex Smith from the M’s for two days.
Feel bad for Hamilton. He was supposed to make Omar Moreno cool again. Too bad it never quite worked out. I still hold out hope because the game needs speed again.
southbeachbully
Yeah because Cashman has signed 5 or 6 FA already….oh wait. He resigned 2 guys and has replaced Sonny Gray with Paxton. Just because the Yanks might be rumored to be in on several FA it doesn’t mean they intend to sign all of them.
WestCoastSoxFan
It’s not even December yet. Cashman is going to repeat the 2008-2009 offseason and spend a zillion dollars this Winter. That much is obvious.
deweybelongsinthehall
I was actually thinking the same fiber. Or outside the box, trading JBJ and plug him in Boston. The question though is can he turn this into a multi-year deal?
thegreatcerealfamine
Dewey it’s not like I’m saying to add a marquee name. He’d be decent off the bench, but baseballpun, and the other guy is what this site has devolved into.
deweybelongsinthehall
JBJ was clutch in the playoffs and phenomenal in CF. I thought though packaging JBJ, Swihart and some SIGNIFICANT other parts might get a usable to good pitcher and then plug Hamilton in CF.
gronk
How the hell did u manage to drop a Swihart in your comment without being viciously and savagely keyboard assaulted by the anti Boston mlbtr Swihart hunters?! You sir should be commended.
tv 2
he sucks when he is part time
joepanikatthedisco
Judge, Hicks, Stanton, Gardner, Ellsbury, Frazier
Slevin
Frazier and Ellsbury aren’t in the equation, and Stanton is the primary DH.
WestCoastSoxFan
$30m DH?
Slevin
First of all they’re not paying him that much, and second what if they were? Primary DH can mean he gets most of the at bats, but he also plays some RF.
bighiggy
Wow
Solaris601
Have to think that a team that’s already loaded will sign him as a pinch runner/late innings defensive replacement on a double-switch role. Hamilton just doesn’t hit enough to be in any every day lineup. Jarrod Dyson 2.0
dray16
I personally think Dyson is much better.
T_Rexx2
Yes, dyson could actually hit
gocincy
How so?
jakec77
They way teams use bullpens these says it’s hard to carry bench player who can’t hit (other than backup catcher). If baseball ever expands to a 27 man roster, he’d be a much more valuable weapon.
davidcoonce74
Exactly this; I hope that the next CBA addresses roster size, increasing rosters to 27-30 players while figuring out a way to limit the number of pitchers on the roster (otherwise teams would just carry, like, 10 relievers). It’s a win for the MLBPA (more players in the union, more players making the MLB minimum), a win for the managers (more flexibility with double-switches, more defensive replacements, more uses for guys like Hamilton, Terrance Gore, etc) and a more interesting game for the fans to watch. The owners, of course, would oppose such a change but hopefully enough of them can come around.
Mendoza Line 215
Harry Walker in 1966 made Marty Alou into the NL batting champion from a 0.231 hitter by having him bunt and slap at the pitch.Hamilton always killed the Pirates in the games that I followed,but it seems to me that no one ever tried to do the same thing with him.He seemed to me to be a free swinger which has not been productive.
I think that he could be a fine player who could cover centerfield in specific large field stadiums if he tried to change his approach at bat and became successful.His speed and defense are legitimate MLB weapons.
gocincy
They tried to teach him bunting. It didn’t go well. It screwed him up even more.
Stuemke17
The problem with trying to teach him a specific plate discipline is that the game has evolved too much in the past fifty-two years. Defensive shifts are still a fairly new concept, but have all but eliminated players like Hamilton and Dyson from starting positions. If Hamilton went 5 for 5 on slap infield singles, he’d be lucky to do it twice in a game for the rest of a season because every manager would know to bring their infield in on him, especially since he’s proven that he can’t reliably get the ball to the outfield grass. We have to remember that defensive shifts were considered taboo until the turn of the century. It also goes without saying that pitching is a completely different ballgame (get it?) than it was in the 60s.
Mendoza Line 215
Thank you Stu for your insightful reply.
I did not know enough Hamilton except as another poster said he seemed to hit 0.700 against the Pirates.
From others posters who are familiar with Hamilton, I get the impression that they did try to teach him to be a small ball hitter and he did not take to it for whatever reason which may be that he thinks that he can be a line drive hitter.
Others said that he does not have enough power to hit it out of the infield which he would need to be able to do to get “Baltimore chop” singles.
His normal routine does not seem to be working,hence the non tender.
My main point is that it is a shame to waste his extreme base running and defensive real talents if he has not followed through as much as he can to develop the best hitting technique that he can.
FromTheCheapSeats
What?!?
FromTheCheapSeats
Billy Hamilton – if nothing else – is the best defensive outfielder in baseball. Bar none. This is a head scratcher. Friggin’ analytics…
Fuck Me Bitch
Byron Buxton would argue with you on that … if
he can hit enough to play in 2019.
RobblyDobs
I’m biased, but I would take Harrison Bader first
joeshmoe11
Uh analytics can tell you he’s a great outfielder. Not the best though but keep beating that anti intellectual horse
jbigz12
Analytics also say he’s very good. Analytics didn’t get billy Hamilton released. The fact that he can’t hit a baseball probably had much more to do with it. You don’t need any advanced metrics to see he can’t hit.
Solaris601
Hamilton’s has more than enough time to pick up his offensive game, and he just isn’t getting any better. Aside from his defensive and base stealing prowess, it’s like having another pitcher in the lineup.
T_Rexx2
Advanced metrics also say he can’t hit… all he can do is steal bags and play great defense.
swanhenge
You have a call waiting… Jackie Bradley Jr on line 1.
WestCoastSoxFan
You misspelled “Mookie Betts”.
ksoze
Bar None, except he has never won a gold glove, so…Maybe bar Incitarte
RedRooster
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA add that to the list of players the Reds have completely botched their handling of. Chapman, Cueto, Leake, Cozart, Harvey, Scooter Gennett is next.
joeshmoe11
To be fair, Leake was dealt for a pretty decent return. Mella and Duvall were more valuable. Leake since being dealt has 4.5 WAR. Duvall worth 6.4 as a Red and Mella is highly thought of, though likely as a bullpen arm
jbigz12
Finnegan and reed were also top prospects who just busted. I’m not sure they got horrendous value for cueto. Reed actually still has a shot to be a decent starter.
RedRooster
See my comment regarding Leake. The Reds should have traded Cueto the prior offseason when the acquiring team stood to get a full season of him + the draft pick from the QO if he signed elsewhere. His trade value was always going to go down from there.
RedRooster
And no. This isn’t hindsight regarding Cueto. The Reds were never going to compete in 2015, Cueto was never going to sign an extension and he was coming off a season in which he was head and shoulders above every other starter in the NL except Kershaw so the Reds would not have been selling low.
RedRooster
Giants would have given up more for Leake than just Duvall and Mella if the Reds had traded him the prior offseason. A full season of Leake + the right to QO him > two months of Leake and no QO.
WestCoastSoxFan
Chapman was the worst one of those. They could have used a Gleyber Torres right about now.
joeshmoe11
They traded him to make a stand against players with domestic abuse allegations. Then they resigned Alfredo Simon a few months later who had rape charges and also may have liked a guy. Random justice
teddyballgame 2
Go get him Diamondbacks!
SupremeZeus
I think the Snakes will be on him. Fits Hazen’s defense first philosophy.
pplama
White Sox.
Hilarious platoon partner with Adam Engel.
jcraft21
Outfielders are overrated
It starts on the mound and if you can’t hit(Hamilton) you cant play
In the outfield you may not get a ball hit to you the entire game . But you will bat 4 times.
Reds have made 2 months of positive moves. This is another
southpaw2153
” Outs Above Average ” lolololol
T_Rexx2
Every stat is important as a whole. Some may seem unnecessary, but they help paint a picture.
Houston We Have A Solution
Still think he can be a decent OF option. He reminds me of Travis jankowski and idk if anyone keeps track but how many bunts or would be bunts has Hamilton attempted per year. Given his speed I wonder how many errors hes caused that weren’t hits but reached base anyways.
I think in Hamiltons regard even though his .250 avg and sub .300 obs dont look pretty im curious how many errors hes reached on due to bunts or softly hit balls where reaching on an error counts against obs.
0-1 but reached 1st on an error stole 2 2nd with 0 outs.
T_Rexx2
Good point. I’m sure there’s a statistic somewhere.
WestCoastSoxFan
When reaching base because of an error is the best outcome, you can see why this guy isn’t worth $5M.
Ski to Coors
He’s a perfect 4th/5th OF, bring him in once your team has a nice lead. Or if you’re down and need a stolen base.
kaskro
I see the Giants overpaying for Hamilton’s services in the near future
Adam6710
Florial, Frazier, and Adams for Hamilton? GET IT DONE, Cashman!
jorleeduf
First of all he is a free agent. Secondly, why would they do that?
Deke
This is the guy that SF reportedly was trying to trade for last year? Now he’s a FA I fully expect SF (my team) to sign him to a long term contract in excess of $20M a year… UGH…
norcalblue
You have a smart new VP for baseball operations and I can assure you that that will not happen. Sabean no longer is in a position to make these decisions.
adshadbolt
Giants here he comes
K R Stemen
The Reds had been discussing a trade with the Giants, but could even get anything of any value for him. The average age of roster players has been on the decline for past couple years.We all live to watch Hamilton’s amazing defensive skills, but the guy just can’t hit and probably never will. Thanks for the defensive show that you have given us Billy. Good Luck.
hurricanewar23
Rangers were always interested in him, here is their chance
PMerkel
I was wondering the same thing. Other than age, how does he compare with Delino Deshields?
Michael Chaney
Remember when the Reds refused to trade him under any circumstances? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
MarlinsFanBase
Well said.
MarlinsFanBase
If he goes cheap, next Marlins leadoff hitter?
titanic struggle
Every pitcher they have just saw their ERA take a big hit, but ya just can’t steal first base…
restingmitchface
I’m dying to see if Billy would consider a specialist pinch-run role, as has been discussed before. Platoon him with a high OBP guy and Billy pinch-runs first time his platoon mate gets on base.
Nick W
Yankees sign Hamilton 2 year deal until Florial is ready. Package Hicks to Cleveland for one of their pitchers.
Adam6710
I do believe Cleveland was insisting on Florial in discussions with the Yanks for Carrasco and Kluber, and that was WITH Justus Sheffield.
WestCoastSoxFan
You HAVE to know that CLE doesn’t want to trade one of their top arms to the Yankees. I expect them to make that move with an NL team.
Redslover24
I wonder if this means the reds will try to get a center fielder. They have been slightly rumored to be interested in a bat to improve the lineup. It’s a big stretch but what if they go for Keuchel and Pollock. Pollock would probably be the easiest to convince to sign since the reds home ballpark is hitter friendly
bigredsfan41017
Alaska had a major earthquake but Cincinnati had their own earthquake with the non-tendering his contract! Another bad move by Cincinnati sports franchise! Hamilton brought excitement to the game and will be greatly missed! It’s about time fans quite supporting the Reds and Bengals. Dick Williams shouldn’t be in a high position in the front office ….NO EXPERIENCE!!!
Dock_Elvis
Argue that with the other Reds fans cheering this move because they want to win….I loved Billy but this needed to happen. 6m for a guy that’s worth maybe 1.5
joeshmoe11
NO COLLUSION!! WITCH HUNT!! Oh, and Dick isn’t the GM, it’s Nick Krall. Billy’s ‘excitement’ has been a part of 4 consecutive last place 90 loss seasons. Good glove but he completely lost his will to steal last year. 2nd worst hitter in MLB since he became a regular and stopped stealing bases doesn’t justify nearly 6m in salary. Presumably he was dropped to allocate his salary for more pitching. ¡Adios!
bobtillman
Another example of the high price of mediocrity. Hamilton has value; the speed and really exquisite defense in center. But he’s a #9 (#8) hole hitter who helps a little more than that because of the SBs.
But that’s it. 2-3M? Ya, I’d do that. Especially if my corner guys weren’t solid defensively. But anything above that is an overpay.
jqks
I am not shocked, but still unhappy.
I would not be surprised at all to see Hamilton sign for more than his projected arbitration figure elsewhere as a free agent. I would not be surprised at all to see him sign a multi-year deal.
He may have not been worth $6M to THIS Reds team with their current outfield jam, but I suspect he is worth $6M or more to several other MLB teams.
darkstar61
Bet he ends up in Cleveland now
abcrazy4dodgers
And Turner Ward didn’t even get a chance….
swanhenge
I think we’re gonna be surprised at how many teams line up for him. You get him paired w a hitting coach that can get through to him and get his OBP around .325ish, he’ll be starting in CF.
Speed and defense never go into slumps. He has legit value. I see teams like TB, SF or even MN in on this.
Dock_Elvis
A hitting coach to get through to a guy at 28 who cant even become a bad mlb hitter? Yeah..theyll line up…but to exploit his elite pinch running and defensive skills
jekporkins
Where’s Whitey Herzog when you need him?
restingmitchface
Speed and defense might not slump but those same qualities decline quickly with age.
Don’t get me wrong — I love watching this guy on the basepaths. A forward-looking team (especially one with a strong starting rotation that eats innings) should pitch him on a specialty platoon pinch runner role.
megaj
That would be perfect for the Cubs
darkstar61
He has an 8.0 BB% – walking is not his issue
His issue is the complete lack of power which means he can’t get the ball out of the infield when he does make contact. Only Dee Gordon hits the ball softer – but unlike Hamilton, Gordon can use the whole field and rarely hits the ball in the air
Hamilton is just a horrible hitter, and no hitting coach is going to change that
restingmitchface
BB% doesn’t tell the whole story, though. He’s posted consecutive seasons with .299 OBP.
That’s horrific regardless of his BB%.
darkstar61
I was replying to this:
“You get him paired w a hitting coach that can get through to him and get his OBP around .325ish”
His walk rate is fine, so there is no way to add to it in the traditional sense. His OBP is sub-300 because he doesn’t have enough power or bat control to get a hit – that isn’t something you just teach to a near 30yo.
Unless he increases his BABip a ton, there is no possibility to get to 325ish
swanhenge
“Shall we go, you and I while we can…” Great name brother!!
I wouldn’t hold his age against him in trying change his approach at the plate. The swing plane revolution has caught on across the league. I dont see how someone from the Boggs/Gwynn school of hitting can’t get his OBP to respectability. He’ll be a good add to some team who has to mind their budget.
darkstar61
Its not about approach – it’s about physical ability and skill, or lack thereof in this case.
driftcat28 2
Did not see this move coming. This is why I love baseball, so many plot twists and it keeps the fans on their toes
Sadler
$5.9M is just too much money for a guy that’s basically a defensive replacement and a pinch runner that gets caught stealing way too much for his speed.
Jockstrapper
Sooooo….they’re getting nothing for him?
sufferforsnakes
Why doesn’t he bunt more?
jqks
Says Everyone on the Reds coaching staff, Always.
dhud
I’m sure no one has thought of that
joeshmoe11
Because he’s terrible at it.
jqks
I think Hamilton may have never fully bought into trying to hit more ground balls and bunting more often because he does have sporadic power. I think, against the advice of everyone, he may have wanted to be a line drive hitter. He sure went up there hacking pretty often when I wanted to see him choke up and shorten his swing.
If it is that simply, he may still have upside. A wake-up call like being non-tendered might finally get him to focus on getting the ball in play more often. If he just gets his OBP up to around .325 he will be playing everyday in the majors for years to come. He is a great athlete and I have trouble concluding he could not grow into a good bunter.
bucketbrew35
Hamilton is in no way a starter, especially at this stage of his career. He is perhaps a missing piece on a championship caliber club. He strikes me as a 4th/5th OF with excellent speed who is great for a late game defensive replacement. He’ll find a home somewhere. And if the team is good enough to be a playoff team, he will basically be the 2014/2015 Jarrod Dyson on that squad with better speed and a lower OBP.
mike156
It’s an interesting move. Hamilton can be really useful as a 4th outfielder, but not at that money for the Reds. He’s also got a little issue with roster crunches…if we are moving to a seven or eight man bullpen, and you need a backup catcher, a backup infielder, and at least someone who can ht the ball out of the infield, etc. a Hamilton-type player might be a luxury.
restingmitchface
That’s what I was thinking, too. Teams who are bullpen-heavy (which, that’s *most* teams in 2018) can’t afford the roster spot. But maybe a team with an excellent starting staff could afford a spot for him in a specialty role?
TradeBait
The org messed him up on the farm having him learn to be a SH. He’s a natural line drive type RH hitter. Once the LH stuff didn’t work well a couple of years ago, it was all over for Billy in Cincy. But in classic Reds FO style, they get nothing for him. They’ve never learned to sell at the perceived high on non-franchise type players.
jcraft21
Line drive? Ha. You haven’t watched him
Priggs89
I mean, I’d rather have him in CF than Adam Engel…
Danny B.
Wow!!! Didn’t see this one coming. In light of this development, if I were the Mets, not only would I hold onto Syndergaard but I would absolutely sign Billy Hamilton to play CF. Sure, his hitting is horrendous but the defense he provides in CF outweighs his offensive deficiencies.
timothysus
No it doesn’t. He is the worst full time hitter in baseball. He should be arrested for even looking at the bat rack.
Steve Roberts
I have a feeling that something is in the air with this move Josh Harrison?
hiflew
Two places come to mind where his speed can be really utilized. Rockies and Giants. Both have HUGE outfields where his speed would really play well defensively. And both have huge outfield where his lackluster hitting would at least get him extra bases. He’d probably hit .240 with 20-25 triples every year with either team.
jqks
Add Kansas City to that list..
He does not need to hit the above marks to be worth 2+ WAR a season. All he needs to do is get is OBP up over .320. One more hit or walk a week will more than do that.
Matt_Angel_Bronco_Laker
Would make a solid 4th OF for the Halos, defensively replacing Justin Upton in the late innings. With Hamilton pinch running and stealing bases in front of Trout…. man, that’s an exciting thought.
raysfanenigma
I wonder if they’ll just re-sign him.
Cincyshawn
Thank you Reds
FINALLY !!!
ThatBallwasBryzzoed
Too bad he cant hit otherwise the Cubs should sign him. They need a lead off hitter. They haven’t had a good one since Fowler. Anthony Rizzo is a self proclaimed greatest lead off hitter of all time and obviously he’s joking and not serious but the numbers dont lie. In 15 games he’s led off a game he has like 6 home runs 5 doubles and a few walks. The first time Maddon did this last year it was to switch things up. It worked every time he put rizzo or Contreras at the lead off spot.
megaj
The Cubs should sign him anyway.. It would free up either Almora or Happ to be traded in a package for an ace like Syndergard. Hamilton would fit in nicely platooning in CF and coming in late to steal bases and for defense in close games. I honestly think this is a “no brainer” for the Cubs brass.
ThatBallwasBryzzoed
Almora needs to start more.
AndyP73
I’d say the only thing typical about this is the “fans” complaining. This was the right move. There was no market for him. I agree I would of tried to have him bat RH exclusively but that takes away from his value. He just isn’t a starter. He’s a platoon guy. And the more he plays the more beating he’s taking. This was a smart move. It’s time the Reds made moves decided by their heads and not their hearts. You also can’t blame the current GM for lack of movement/decisions of the previous regime.
Vickers
Honest question…Wouldn’t the Reds Ballpark be more beneficial to HR hitters and possibly even make it harder to find a hole for the speedster that lacks power? I would think playing in a bigger ballpark would help spread out the fielders and give Billy more room to work with.
CasualRedsFan
Yes, I think your assessment is spot on. This is exactly why the Giants have shown interest in Hamilton on numerous occasions. I’m really interested in seeing what a guy like Billy Hamilton will make on the open market.
IjustloveBaseball
Here’s your chance Rockies — this is the guy to man CF at Coors. Blackmon then shifts to a corner where he’ll be much better suited.
CasualRedsFan
I like this move. I don’t feel like teams trade anything worthwhile for bench players with “upside”. We all knew Arb was going to cost the Reds too much money to continue to have a .290 OBP hitter in the lineup. Addition by subtraction.
megaj
This interestingly opens up a few more options for the….Cubs! The Cubs brass has been hesitant to include Albert Almora in any trade bundle with prospects for a big trade like Syndergard, but offering Hamilton a 2 year- 6 million deal would fit the Cubs needs very nicely. He could be used as a platoon player with Happ, and offer much needed speed without losing anything defensively from the bench late in games, thus making Almora expendable. I am calling this one guys as VERY plausible!
jeb39999
Twins can add him for the fastest and lightest hitting outfield in the league next to Buxton
timothysus
Billy needed to go last year and no matter what the Giants were offering it was enough. Just another example of the front office being in over their head.
Larky
He’s still fast, but he’s still ugly too, just can’t hit
Larky
Nationals should pick him up, their going backwards anyway,
PMerkel
How does Hamilton compare with Delino Deshields in Texas?
bradthebluefish
Mariners could use an OF of his caliber.
bhambrave
A lot of teams have players on their rosters that they could have traded but didn’t. Then they get to the off-season, re-evaluate, and dump their non-performers that stand to be too expensive. Hamilton is probably worth about $1.5M-$2M as a 4tf OF/pinch runner/defensive replacement. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Reds re-sign him at a reset value.
chrstnldy
It’s about time the Reds made this move! I can’t believe it took them soooo long to do it. I understand Bob Castellini really wanted him to be a Red forever, but the money he would have wanted would be too much for small market Cincy. They paid him a lot of money to strike out, not bunt, and play really amazing defense. I hope they do not re-sign him too.
Cobe821
I hope they don’t resign him based only on the fact that I’m a Pirates fan. He seemed to hit .700 against Pittsburgh, but so did many others…….
bravesfan
Go get him braves. We live on some speed and he doesn’t have to be a starter for us