Jonathan Schoop is a key figure in the Brewers’ offseason plans, Tom Haudricourt of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel writes, as the club’s decision whether or not to tender the second baseman a contract could have a ripple effect throughout the infield. Schoop is projected to earn $10.1MM via arbitration, though he is coming off a rough season that saw him hit just .233/.266/.416 over 501 plate appearances for the Brewers and Orioles. Since Schoop did post big numbers for the O’s in 2017, however, Milwaukee could keep Schoop in the fold to see if he can regain that form. If Schoop was non-tendered, the Brewers could again consider moving Travis Shaw to second base (as they did last season) and then pursue third base help, possibly in the form of a reunion with Mike Moustakas. I’d also suggest that the Brewers could simply try to acquire another second baseman if Schoop was non-tendered, as there are several interesting options available that might be preferable to taking the defensive hit that would likely come with Shaw getting regular second base duty. GM David Stearns was quick to dismiss the possibility that Keston Hiura, Milwaukee’s top prospect, could be a possibility for the second base job, as Hiura has yet to even reach the Triple-A level.
Here’s more from around baseball as we wrap up Thanksgiving weekend…
- The Nationals are thought to be “aiming higher” in their search for starting pitching rather than trying to swing buy-low trades for Marcus Stroman or Sonny Gray, Chelsea Janes of the Washington Post writes. Janes’ piece in general looks at the pitching options open to the Nats on the trade market, and while GM Mike Rizzo doesn’t often make deals for notable starters, he is willing to pay a significant price when he does covet an arm. Washington parted with seven total players to acquire Doug Fister in 2013 and Gio Gonzalez in 2011, and since those trades, Rizzo has preferred to rely on free agency or homegrown arms to bolster the rotation. With so many interesting starters available in trade talks this winter, however, it wouldn’t be surprising if Rizzo went that route instead of making another signing.
- Speaking of Stroman, the Blue Jays have been asked about the right-hander but have yet to enter into any significant trade talks. The Athletic’s Andrew Stoeten (subscription required) feels the Jays should be willing to deal Stroman even at something of a sell-low price, since a slow start in 2019 would further diminish any real trade value Stroman possesses. Since Toronto doesn’t seem to be planning to contend again until 2021, Stoeten feels the Jays should be exploring deals for any player (like Stroman) whose isn’t under team control in 2021 or beyond.
Joe Panik for Santana or Broxton?
Not happening
Probably could get Thames for that offer
When the market has so many 2nd baseman panic just doesn’t have much value
Panik and Will Smith for both Santana and Broxton… who says no?
The brewers are you kidding me panik is highly over rated and can’t stay healthy
Panik was negative bWAR last year and only once has had a bWAR above 1.3. Not a lot of trade value there, last year he made 3.5 million. Will likely bump up his pay again.
Will Smith might have more value alone than with Panik
Santana is on steroids and highly overrated himself
Panik’s best season was better than Broxton or Santana’s best seasons by bWAR. They are all flawed players who could maybe benefit from a change of scenery.
“Santana is on steroids” Huh? Panik is trash, hate to break it to ya.
They non-tendered Chris Carter after he led league in HR.
Wouldn’t put it past them, to have gall to non-tender Schoop.
In what world is tendering Schoop a good idea? He sucks. He had 1 good year. He would not get over $10mm on the market
I agree. He had an OPS under .600 in Milwaukee, proving he can’t hit outside of Baltimore.
That’s not what that proves at all. What’s really curious though is Milwaukee’s handling of Schoop since he came over in the trade. The team certainly did little or nothing to let him work through his challenges but rather very quickly relegated him to a very reduced role. Couldn’t have helped his confidence—at all.
Baltimore gave him the time to work through his challenges in 2018 before he was traded.
Can’t blame the Brewers for not giving him playing time when they were in a Division Race with the Cubs that they won on Game 163.
If they let Schoop play more often, Cubs might have won the Division
Facts. I never understood why they traded for him anyway. They needed pitching and it showed in the postseason.
What’s funny is that it’s easier to hit in Milwaukee than in Baltimore
That’s exactly my point. Milwaukee is one of the best hitting environments in baseball and Schoop just couldn’t hit there.
he had 1 allstar year however he had 3 decent years up until last. Consider the injury in 2018, he may not be an average hitter but as a 2 basemenje has good upside.
Id like to see your stats. Ill even go first. He’s better than i am.
xabial…was it “gall” to release Carter? He couldn’t even make it in the minors this year.
Hindsight is everything, and they set precedent.
Seems to me they knew what they were doing and it was the proper precedent. I believed it then and I believe it now.
What did other teams do with him? Gall or not, it’s a business. You seem to worry a lot about what other teams do with their players..example your post about Mark Reynolds on the Rockies thread.
Which thread is PG in?
Busy changing her username.
Brewers should cash in. Keston Huira and whatever else it takes to acquire Jacob Degrom for 2 years. Mauricio Dubron was lighting up triple a before he got hurt last year, but Brewers should push for Degrom.
The Brewers nor any other team will get their hands on DeGrom. Syndergaard however is a different story. I believe the Brewers could get Syndergaard with a package of Hiura, Ray, Thames & Freddy Perelta. This makes too much sense for the Brewers because you’ll be getting an elite SP for 2 unproven prospects, an expendable 1B/OF in Thames and a good strikeout SP with control issues. I think it’s a win, win for both teams and fills needs.
Way way too much for two years of a very high injury risk starter.
Negotiate with Schoop…If he’s non-tendered, as a free agent he’d get nowhere near his arbitration number. A one year contract worth 6 – 7 million would allow him to rebuild his value while keeping the seat warm for Hiura in 2020.
What makes Syndergaard a high injury risk? None of his injuries have been of the typical”high risk” forms i.e. elbow, shoulder, back etc…
Another uneducated fan. Syndergaard has 3 years left and is extremely cheap. It’s impossible to find a SP that talented,young & cheap. Good luck finding another SP better than Syndergaard without having to either give up the farm or pay them over $20 million per season.
This is a good Syndergaard proposal. The Mets would do this.
Take Peralta out and you might have a deal! I am not sure the Brewers will want to part with Hiura either! Their need is SP yes, but their next need is 2nd base! They may look for Huira to fill that in house!
You’re treating Perelta like a CY Young candidate. It’s like I said before, Perelta has a terrific K-Rate but that’s about it. He walks a lot of batters and had an ERA over 4 last season in the majors. And why would ANY organization choose to keep Hiura over the opportunity to get a SP like Syndergaard??? The answer is simple and obvious, they wouldn’t. Hiura has a lot of talent but has never had a major league at bat. Plus, there are plenty of options for 2B(Schoop/Dozier/Murphy/Kinsler/Dubon). Just saying, no organization would value a 2B prospect over an ace caliber pitcher.
The Stroman argument is like half of all trade arguments GMs face. Of course Stroman might hurt his value more if he struggles (duh), but he can also help it if he plays up to his potential. Articles need to be written. Blue Jays could trade Vlad Jr. by trade deadline if he struggles to the point in the majors they don’t feel he’ll ever be as good as his trade value is worth.
(Complete absurd hypothetical)
The Jays took a similar gamble with Donaldson. Mind you he was coming off a decent season, but injuries aplenty. They chose to wait it out and it backfired. Methinks they won’t make the same potential mistake with Stroman
Only difference is Stroman is coming off a terrible year plus the Jays need arms at this present time. Whereas Donaldson became healthy and started hitting better July 2017 and should have been dealt then, or during last offseason. Jays are better off holding Stroman in-hopes he gets off to a good start.
I don’t like Stroman as a starter anymore. At best he is an unhealthy #3. His value is very low.
He can still be an elite closer. Not that the Jays need a starter but they’ll likely be dealing Giles for a haul at some point in the next year so why not give Stroman a closer try? Beats more of the same.
I do t see them paying $10 million when a guy like Kinsler will be available for less. Or Dozier.
There s big supply of middle infielders on the market.
Dozier will get more than. 10 M. Probably 3/36
Lol. Freshly minted GG, 2B Kinsler probably gets more than Dozier. (Not to mention, your contract forecast is way off)
Kinsler is not good anymore, plus gold gloves are meaningless in contract value. Plus, how did he even win the GG? He was so bad defensively for Boston.
Methinks you’re too generous with $$ prediction.
Lol Dozier just pissed the bed in LA. I’d say Dozier gets 2/20 at the most. There’s just too many good 2B options available, and with so many teams rebuilding, it doesn’t seem like there’s gonna be a bidding war for Dozier. Maybe Lemahieu and Lowrie, but not Dozier.
2/20 is still good for Dozier. He’s a reclamation prize right now and could help a frindge contender of he goes back to prior production.
Whats the going rate on Stroman?
remember troy oleary? that’s the going rate. the rate is the name vs actual production.
Nice reference.
Wonder if Stroman is a possible buy low candidate for the Braves. Numbers may improve getting away from that ballpark and having a good defense behind him.
Jays are not trading Stroman in a buy low scenario. Period.
Honestly I think the Mariners would be a viable landing spot for Stroman. He would fit nicely into our rotation and could be a bounce back candidate. Segura would be a middle infielder that would fit well in Toronto. I’m wondering what it would take for the Jays to deal Stroman.
Seattle is clearly rebuilding and doesn’t have the prospects anyway. Toronto has a surplus of middle infielders.
In what world would the Jays deal Vlad Jr. at the trade deadline if he struggles a bit this year (which I highly doubt BTW).
I agree with Tayvanz on Stroman to the M’s. They just dealt away Paxton, and king Felix looks to be on the slide. If Dipoto is serious about a quick restock and back into contention by 2020, jumping on Marcus and giving him the year to turn it around makes sense.
Some people don’t get sarcasm, even if it’s spelled out in brackets.
Stroman is overrated. He’s got a little too much of the Brett Lawrie in him, a lot of ‘look at me.’
look at me tattoos
Not liking his attitude is fine but ignoring consecutive 200 IP seasons, one of which carried a 3.00 ERA just because you don’t like his attitude is intentionally daft.
I’m directly stating Stroman’s attitude will act as an anchor upon his natural talent – it’s already underway. Ricky Romero, anyone?
Ricky was liked by his teammates and those in the media. His struggles were do to his inability to get Left Handed hitters out which was evident by Joe Maddon once starting an entire lineup of left handed hitters minus Longoria and Zobrist.
Stroman’s struggles are purely related to bad defense behind him. He generates a 60% gb rate and generates a decent amount of strikeouts while not walking too many people. His personality has little to do with the horrible defense the Jays threw out there last year.
Romero is cooked because of knee injuries. Not that i remember him having any attitude problems.
Stroman is a workhorse with the upside of being a very good #2. I’d blame the blister issues he dealt with for most of the season, not his attitude
“Bad defence,” that’s just precious. Romero couldn’t control his temper, Stroman struggles to likewise restrain his emotions. That type of energy just does not work in baseball. Both lack the focus to harness their natural talent. That and, of course, all the “bad defence.”
^Stroman should play Sundown by Gord Lightfoot to put life in proper perspective.
Right now the Jays do need to hold on to Stroman. If they had numerous arms to use from AAA they could deal him. At this point, pray he has a strong 3 months to open 2019.
Gordon, we agree on Stroman.
Does anyone have any insights on what happened with Schoop this year and why he’d be a real non-tender candidate? The guy was one of the best offensive 2B in the game 2 years ago. Seems risky to let him go for $10 mil in payroll flexibility and let it be someone else’s riches if he goes back to hitting .280 with 20+ homers.
Was there a change in his swing? A significant injury? Any explanation as to what happened? I didn’t get to see him much in 2018.
I know, he was a flash in the pan and has always been overrated. How does any hitter have an OPS under .600 hitting in Milwaukee??? The answer is not a good one. He’s not worth a $10 million AAV.
He’s a little young to have always been overrated. In his age 26 season (normally coming into a player’s prime) he was a 3.8 WAR player, which for a 2B is pretty good after a 2.2 WAR year in his age 25 season. A 0.5 WAR is by far his lowest since his first full season.
It doesn’t look like luck as his .330 BABIP in 2017 was right in line with his .329 in 2015 and .305 in 2016. Some of 2018 could be attributed to bad luck as he had a .261 BABIP, by far the lowest of his career. His pull rate was the same as prior years, so there’s no obvious change in approach. His soft contact rate was about on par with his usual. His hard contact rate was down quite a bit, but it’s not like it translated into a rise in soft contact. GB/FB all the same.
So I was asking for a bit more of a serious answer as to if there was tangible evidence of something different. The advanced metrics don’t spell it out very clearly.
With those advanced metrics in mind, I’d roll the dice at $10 mil as all he has to be to justify that cost is a 1.5-2 WAR player which would still represent regression over 2015-2017. I’d chalk it up to some bad luck and maybe a little bit better plate discipline.
Great response fenway! I’ve watched Schoop for years, and I would chalk up some of the regression in 2018 to an injury to start the season and then leaving his comfort zone at the trade deadline. The O’s were his only organization and Manny was his best friend. For an emotional player that can mean a lot. He cried when he found out he was traded. I’d definitely roll the dice with Schoop for $10 mil especially with his flexibility to play 2B, SS, and 3B, a must for a NL team.
Thanks Masnhater. I’ve watched him for years as well 19 times each season playing the Sox, plus I live in New York so 19 more times playing the Yankees and various other games. I must have seen him play 100 games already in his career, if not more and I’ve always been a fan. Last season sounds like it was tough physically and emotionally for him. An off-season can go a long way if that’s true.
Seeing as though pundits say that Yelich cannot be expected to have the numbers he had in 18, I expect the opposite with Scoop. When he gets to Spring Training he will know everyone and be able to not be a new guy in an unfamiliar environment. He knows the nucleus of the clubhouse and will have no problem fitting in. We don’t need him to be a top of the order bat, but hitting at a 1.5-2.5 war would fit him nicely into the 5 spot behind Shaw. As far as the rest of the Brewers roster— get Lucroy back as a catcher, a pitcher who will go deeper into the lineup than the 5-6 inning (Corbin, Greinke, Keuchel, Happ) and bring back Miley on a 1-3 year pact. It’s fun to have the Brewers be relevant again. Hopefully they can keep it going.
LeMahieu makes the most sense imo. But I think he’s incredibly underrated. If you can get him at 18/2 (mlbtr prediction) then the Brewers can keep Shaw at third, improve their infield defense dramatically, save a bit of money over Schoop, and not lock up the position long-term for when Hiura is ready.
Wondering if the Brewers could make up a deal with Minnesota with Chase Anderson, Jonathan Schoop, and Eric Thames for some very young prospects that are a couple years off. Then also take Keon Broxton, Domingo Santana, Zach Davies, and Manny Pina to the the Diamondbacks for Grienke ( money sent to the Brewers) and Murphy. Trade Perez to Mariners for lottery pick prospect. Non tender Kratz and Salindino. Sign Kikuchi out of Japan. Resign Moustakas to 3 year deal and my final thing is put Derby, Griep, Olszak on to the 40 man roster. I could also see them sign Matt Moore and Brett Anderson to a mi or league contract.
Stubby, you have turkey coma going from thanksgiving yet. Any moves the Brewers make should be to put them over the top, now is not the time for prospects who are a few years off. The big question with the Brewers this year is —“what amount of $$$ flexibility is MA willing to give his GM to go for it”
I know these trades aren’t glamorous. But these trades will actually freeing up some money to look at other trades. It also will keep the organization into doing some restocking. A lot of these guys I dont believe that we are trading away going to help us get over the top.Now I know we have to give up something to get something. If we move some of this money, I wouldn’t mind going out on a limb as trading Aguilar at his highest value. Simply cause I think the Brewers would be better off with moving Aguilar, Perez, Schoop, Thames, Broxton and Santana with a combo of Myers, Dubon, Shaw and Taylor for more offense and defense. If the the Brewers do trade a high prospect for someone like Kluber or Thor, the only way that will work for the Brewers is if we are able to still hit on Bickford,Derby, Griep, Olszak, Kirby, and William’s. Yes these guys aren’t in the top 30 prospects but now a days you have one bad month or injury in minors it doesn’t take much to fall off that list because it seems these rankers fall in love with the new toys more often then not. I’m probably like most of you as I want to see moves but the reality is that the Brewers dont have to make many but they do have to hit big time on the ones that they make. Times have changed for the Brewers where make a whole bunch of moves and see what works because we aren’t sitting anymore where 25 spots are available.
Derby? You’re on him as much as you were Orf. Is he even in their top 30 prospects.
Maybe you’re right, but he’s not viewed as much of a difference maker at this point.
It appears to be time to bring defensively-savvy & world champion & former Brewer, Free Agent, “Iron-Man” Alcides Escobar back to Milwaukee as 2B. He represents consistent effort and positive, hard-working influence. He IS the right player to add to MIL’s roster; he and Mgr Counsell see ‘eye-to-eye’.
I don’t get this idea. Unless Escobar come super cheap, he has three games under his belt at 2B, in his entire career, all last year according to baseball reference. I’m not carrying any brief for Schoop but he has more power potential
If the Brewers are gonna move someone out of position, why bring in Escobar, again unless he comes super cheap, when they already have moved Shaw out of position.?
AA gets back Josh Donaldson for one season at $23mm…. bringing the band back together, and the kind of move that could take the Braves to the World Series if it works out. Who did the Jays get for Donaldson?
Jays got a 27 year old TJ guy named Merryweather in a last minute panic dump with the Indians. I think he might be able to be a quality setup guy for a year or two. Kinda sad rerturn for a MVP.
Jays waited far to long to trade him.
Look what they got for Donaldson, Bautista, and Encarncion…..
I think someone in the Jays front office is terrifed of trading away stars and getting burned. So the Jays get burned instead by waiting too long.
From what I hear, there are going to be Blue Jays executive front office changes sometime in the next 6 months.