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The youth movement is on in Toronto, as the Blue Jays will look to continue trading veterans and picking up controllable pieces for the future.
Guaranteed Contracts
- Troy Tulowitzki, SS: $38MM through 2020 (includes $4MM buyout of $15MM club option for 2021)
- Russell Martin, C: $20MM through 2019
- Lourdes Gurriel Jr., IF/OF: $17.4MM through 2023
- Kendrys Morales, DH: $12MM through 2019
- Justin Smoak, 1B: $8MM through 2019 (Jays exercised club option)
Arbitration Eligible Players (projections via MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz)
- Marcus Stroman – $7.2MM
- Ken Giles – $6.6MM
- Yangervis Solarte – $5.9MM (Jays retain control even through Solarte’s $5.5MM club option wasn’t exercised)
- Kevin Pillar – $5.3MM
- Randal Grichuk – $4.8MM
- Aaron Sanchez – $3.8MM
- Devon Travis – $2.4MM
- Ryan Tepera – $1.7MM
- Brandon Drury – $1.4MM
- Joe Biagini – $1.0MM
- Non-tender candidates: Solarte, Pillar
Free Agents
[Toronto Blue Jays Depth Chart; Blue Jays Payroll Overview]
It’s pretty unlikely that any player the Blue Jays acquire this winter will have as much impact on the franchise as Vladimir Guerrero Jr., who is expected to make his long-awaited MLB debut sometime early in 2019. The precise timing isn’t yet known, but there’s no question the club will wait until it is no longer possible for Guerrero to achieve a full year of MLB service time. The consensus top prospect in the sport, Guerrero represents the next generation of Jays baseball, when he and a host of other intriguing youngsters from Toronto’s farm system will theoretically become the core of the Jays’ next contending team.
Until those prospects arrive and develop, however, the Jays will spend their time (perhaps the next two seasons, as per GM Ross Atkins’ rough timeframe) figuring out who will be playing alongside them. The club already began dealing some of its veterans once it faded out of contention last season, and it’s safe to assume the Blue Jays will be open to moving any and all remaining established names to make way for younger talent.
Since the Jays currently have a lot of options for both the infield and outfield spots, Atkins has already said that the team will prioritize moving some of its excess position players to add pitching. The rotation is perhaps the biggest concern heading into 2019, as the Jays are poised to deploy a highly uncertain starting five. Marcus Stroman and Aaron Sanchez are still in the mix. Otherwise, the unit is slated to be made up of largely untested hurlers — Ryan Borucki, and then some combination of Sean Reid-Foley, Sam Gaviglio, Thomas Pannone, and perhaps Jon Harris or Jacob Waguespack.
Stroman received trade interest last summer, even while in the midst of a down year that saw the right-hander post a 5.54 ERA over 102 1/3 IP while battling shoulder and blister issues. The Jays would be selling low on Stroman if they dealt him this offseason, and are perhaps more likely to explore a trade (if at all) during the season, provided the righty is healthy and showing some of his 2017 form. Sanchez is an even greater longshot to be moved, as his stock has fallen after pitching only 141 innings total in 2017-18 due to persistent finger, nail, and blister problems.
Given that even the veteran names in the rotation aren’t certainties, Toronto will look at adding at least one experienced arm on a short-term contract, similar to their signing of Jaime Garcia last winter (obviously with better results, the team hopes). Ervin Santana, Josh Tomlin, Drew Pomeranz, or Martin Perez are a few bounce-back candidates that could conceivably fit as targets on one-year deals, not to mention a familiar face like Marco Estrada, though Estrada’s own struggles in 2018 may lead the Blue Jays to pursue someone with more upside.
If the Jays looked at pitchers beyond one-year commitments, another old friend like J.A. Happ could be a possibility, should Happ value a familiar environment over a chance to compete for the playoffs in 2019. Pitchers like Anibal Sanchez, Gio Gonzalez, or Lance Lynn could fit. Looking to the future a bit, the Jays could consider Garrett Richards, who will miss 2019 recovering from Tommy John surgery but should be ready for 2020 when Toronto is a step closer to contention. Getting even more creative with their starters, the Jays could potentially even use an “opener” for one of the rotation spots, though that is far from a certainty.
Any veteran starter the Jays acquire, of course, could also become a trade candidate at the deadline, and the same goes for any reliever the team might pick up. The Blue Jays have signed and then flipped a number of inexpensive free agent relievers over the last two offseasons (Seunghwan Oh, Joe Smith, John Axford), so expect them to target similar bullpen arms this winter. In terms of in-house relievers that could be traded, incumbent closer Ken Giles is the biggest name, though he might be another player who the Jays wait to properly shop until he improves his value during the season. Giles posted a 4.65 ERA over 50 1/3 total innings with the Astros and Blue Jays in 2018, with some excellent peripherals (9.5 K/9, 7.57 K/BB rate) but also very poor numbers when not pitching in save situations.
The question of “when should an asset be traded?” will certainly linger over Toronto’s offseason, particularly in the wake of the relative lack of return the Jays received for Josh Donaldson last summer, when the former MVP could’ve netted much more prior to his injury-riddled 2018 season. The Jays obviously aren’t going to rush to move a player purely as a reaction to Donaldson’s situation, though selling high on a few players now would make sense given the Blue Jays’ projected timeframe for contention.
Randal Grichuk, for instance, played quite well in his first year in Toronto, though he might not be part of the team’s future since he is eligible for free agency after the 2020 season. Justin Smoak is only under contract through 2019, so it might make sense for the Jays to deal him this winter and create room to give Rowdy Tellez a longer look at first base. Teoscar Hernandez offers five years of control and a lot of power, though his high strikeout totals and near-unplayable outfield glove could make him someone the Jays see as less of a long-term roster piece and more as someone to be dealt in a package for a true long-term asset.
Of course, the Jays would undoubtedly be much more open to dealing Troy Tulowitzki, Kendrys Morales, or Russell Martin, though these high-priced veterans are each more or less immovable. Morales rebounded from a poor 2017 to post above-average hitting numbers (112 OPS+, 108 wRC+) last year, but it would take more than decent numbers to drum up much trade interest in a DH-only player with a $12MM salary.
Martin has at least a little theoretical trade value, perhaps in a swap of bad contracts with a team that needs a catcher, though even that scenario could be hampered by a larger-than-usual number of decent veteran catchers available in free agency. Danny Jansen is slated for the bulk of catching duties for the Jays next season, leaving Martin as a well-paid backup and veteran mentor to Jansen, Luke Maile, and Reese McGuire (plus maybe some backup infield duty).
After missing all of the 2018 season due to heel injuries, Tulowitzki has no trade value whatsoever, and it remains to be seen exactly what the Jays will do with Tulowitzki if he is able to take the field come Opening Day. The shortstop doesn’t appear open to a position switch, and while Lourdes Gurriel Jr. can play several positions around the diamond, the Jays are obviously interested in giving Gurriel more time at shortstop given his status as a franchise building block. One answer could be to deploy Gurriel at third base until Guerrero is promoted, giving the Jays a few weeks to see if Tulowitzki can still contribute, but there is simply so much uncertainty around Tulowitzki’s health that the Blue Jays will consider anything they can get from him in 2019 as a bonus.
With Gurriel penciled in at shortstop, Aledmys Diaz or Brandon Drury are the favorites to be the pre-Guerrero third baseman, and both players should also vie for playing time with Devon Travis at second base. Travis stayed healthy in 2018 but wasn’t very productive, while Drury only played 26 MLB games last season. The Jays would be selling low on either, and could just keep everyone around to compete for the job in the short-term while keeping second base warm for prospects Bo Bichette or Cavan Biggio (or maybe even Gurriel, depending on who ends up playing where in the future). Toronto already declined a club option on Yangervis Solarte and will likely part ways with him, given their other infield options.
More trade possibilities abound in the outfield, as any of Grichuk, Hernandez, or Kevin Pillar could be playing elsewhere on Opening Day. Pillar’s elite center field glove showed some decline last season, dropping to a negative value (-2) in Defensive Runs Saved with only slightly positive grades from UZR/150 (+2.5) and Statcast’s Outs Above Average (+1). Pillar has never been a productive hitter, so if he isn’t offering excellent defense, he doesn’t bring much to the table as an everyday player. At a projected $5.3MM arbitration salary, a case can be made for Pillar as a non-tender candidate, with some combination of Grichuk, Anthony Alford or Billy McKinney then handling center field. That said, it’s also quite possible that another club would like to take a shot on Pillar at that price, particularly since he has another season of arb eligibility remaining. He’s also a candidate to stay and play in hopes that he’ll be of interest at the trade deadline.
Though the Jays have just under $113MM in payroll commitments in 2019, that number drops to under $21MM the following year, and Gurriel is the only player under contract beyond the 2020 season. This opens up more trade possibilities for the team, as Toronto could absorb a large salary from another team in order to also acquire some prospects or MLB-ready talents.
There’s really no shortage of what the Blue Jays “could” do this winter now that the rebuild is fully on, though it’s probably safer to expect a few deals and modest free agent signings (like last offseason) rather than a huge overhaul. As noted, the Jays have so many possible trade candidates still looking to rebuild value (Stroman, Sanchez, Giles, Travis, Pillar) that much of the real heavy lifting on the trade front might not take place until the middle of the 2019 season.
The Jays have already made one intriguing move this winter, however, in hiring Charlie Montoyo as the team’s new manager. Montoyo is a well-respected baseball man with 22 years of experience in the Rays organization as a minor league manager and a coach on the Major League staff, though he has no prior ties to either the Jays, Atkins, or team president Mark Shapiro. This makes Montoyo a completely fresh voice within the dugout, and thus perhaps a fitting choice to steward the Blue Jays into their new era.
Future looks bright with Bo Bichette and Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
Minnesota’s future looked bright with Byron Buxton and Miguel Sano too. Don’t count the chickens before they are hatched.
As a Mets guy, I remember how jacked everyone was about Isringhausen, Pulsipher, and Wilson. They can’t miss, right ?
The Jays have the #1 MLB prospect. Vladdy could be a bust, sure, if he doesn’t have the conditioning to stay healthy. But could he be a Bryant or an Acuna? Yeah, he could. In the Fall Star Game, his double had an exit velocity of 117 MPH
So keep your bitterness. Let the fans feel optimism.
Britton arrieta and matusz were supposed to be are future starting staff lol now we have none and all three sucked as starters here
They’ve done nothing at the MLB level. I’m always confused by this lack of understanding from Jays fans on this string. You’re like Dallas Cowboys fans, jacked up on nothing. The Jays haven’t won *anything* in 25+ years. Shapkins turned EE, Happ, Donaldson and Estrada in to nothing of long term value. The only thing that matters in MLB is putting a playoff capable team on the field so they have a chance at the World Series. We haven’t had that in Toronto since 2015, which means Shapkins have had three seasons to rebuild, just like Milwaukee and the Yankees. Not seeing it.
What is “Shapkins’? Is that a sad effort to ridicule Mark Shapiro and Ross Atkins? Impressive. There have been 3 seasons to rebuild? Really? They should have rebuilt in 2016 instead of going to the ALCS? They should have gone to the ALCS in 2016 and then rebuilt? With what? Tulowitzki is a joke. Bautista by 2017 was a joke. Martin’s contract is a joke. With what would they rebuild? They maximized any return for the junk farm they were left by trading Leone and Greene for Grichuk, Hutchison for Teoscar and McGuire etc. While you complain about Toronto, I’d say your post is the worst I’ve seen.
I thought the professional miserablists had settled on “Shatkins” as their preferred epithet.
Ehh, whatever. These are the same people who, if they were paying any attention to baseball at all before July 30, 2015, were probably yelling for AA’s head. How quick we forget…..
Nobody ever called for AA’s head. AA was beloved even before July 27th when he dealt cancerous Jose Reyes and others for Tulowitzki and Latroy Hawkins.
Actually, many were calling for AA’s head in 2014 when he didn’t do squat with the lineup before spring training and at the deadline. As well as before the deadline 2015.
Trust me, they were out in full force on fan sites.
^Nobody reads Bluebird Banter or any site written by the first name Andrew. You call “many” calling for AA’s head? Please, AA was teflon and skated on nearly everything with fans and virtually every person in the media (Rogers) excusing/justifying AA’s every move. If a handful of fans is what you call “many”, then you might be correct.
So no, I don’t trust you. Nobody was out in full force and AA’s job was never in-jeopardy at any point ever.
Charles, you can’t say other people have a lack of understanding and then turnaround and basically say that Drury, Pearson, and McKinney have no long term value. And you must also forget the 2016 season, you know, the one they went to the ALCS. You’re intentionally ignoring that this was always going to happen, regardless of who was running the team, because of AA’s moves.
No, I remember 2016 well. Lost 4-2 to KC. That team had been assembled by AA. Shapkins didn’t resign EE after that season and pushed him away by signing Morales – oops. I’ll take your point about when they should have started the rebuild, but there is a fair point to be made that they could have realised more value for Happ, Estrada, Smoak and Donaldson if they’d started the rebuild ahead of the 2018 season when it was obvious they couldn’t match the Yankees (Giancarlo Stanton) or Bosox (JD Martinez). I’d say the debate on long term value of Drury, Pearson and McKinney is premature, sample size at MLB level is small. Minor league potential doesn’t always translate in to major league value (see Travis Snider, Dalton Pompey, etc).
I realize this Is all hindsight. But Morales was better than EE last year and was 7 million cheaper. Plus they got Pearson. Oops
Charles….2016 the Jays lose to Cleveland in 5. KC was 2015. At least get the years correct when you formulate your argument. Because beyond that, you are spot-on.
Morales was a bad signing for this particular team. You had Donaldson and Tulo well into their 30’s and needed some DH time in 2017. Then they signed another DH in Steve Pearce and then bailed Bautista out, who was turning 37 and needed to DH. Had the team been a bit younger, Morales wouldn’t have been a bad signing. Pearce was just the right guy for the wrong team.
Not to split hairs but if recalling correctly Jays offered EE a reasonable contract offer prior in the offseason before he became a FA and he didn’t agree to it, also demanding a contract that for whatever reason seemed unrealistic for a near bat only type of players Edwin Pushed himself away from the Jays and front office responded by assigning a guy that up to that point had comparable (albeit slightly worst) numbers as EE to a cheaper contract (all while coming to a hitters park) F/O can’t exactly be faulted for a) not wanting to sign Edwin to a 25M per season contract (which was his ask when we signed Morales, even though we know now Edwin signed for less) and B) Morales play, he had be consistent through his time in the MLB and was project to have a slight jump coming to the confines of the hitter Friendly Jays Park
Crush you have valid points. EE was offered and rejected a deal similar to what he signed with Cleveland. Reason he would have been a better signing, at that time, was due to inconsistency with Smoak. EE would have been signed to play 1B/DH. Morales was signed to DH with Smoak being given one more opportunity, which he took advantage of in 2017.
I hope that they blow the whole thing up. My first take would be something like this, but this will change even as early as approaching the rule 5 draft where every team is forced to make moves.
If we look at most teams[not all] that have won the world series they have had a true #1 ace pitcher and then a solid staff behind them. Dombrowksi got Sale, Houston got Verlander, the Giants had MadBum etc etc.
The first step to rebuilding the Jays is the rotation. As of today Nov 08 2018, Stroman is a 3. Sanchez finger is still not resolved, so lets assume he’s a 3 if he can pitch at all; Borucki is a 3 now and with his new weightlifting regimen he should be a 2 in two years; ReidFoley has no idea where the ball is going, he’s a 4; Gaviglio is 5; Pannone is unknown because of PED’s. Pannone would be a bullpen guy except for his PED boost to a 3-4. We’ll see the real Pannone this year.
1. Sign Patrick Corbin to be Jays #1 starter., then Borucki, Stroman, Sanchez, RediFoley/Gaviglio. Corbin is the only FA alpha dog I like this year.
2. Cut Mark Leiter Jr, , replace him and recently claimed Fernandez with elite setup relievers. Buy them or trade for them.
3. Spring training competation for catcher. Carry 2 catchers North: Likely Jansen and Martin. Cut Maile. Macguire to minors.
4. Outfield: Pillar Center, Grichuk Right, Alford and Hernandez Left; Trade Mckinney or option him before he sucks more than he has. Cut Dalton Pompey, send Davis to Minors. Dwight Smith Jr is MLB depth and is I beleive out of options.
5. First Base: trade Smoak, Morales to first or DH or released; Tulo to first or DH. If Tulo balks at a position change, suspend him without pay. He’s an employee and not in charge of anything.
6. 2nd Base.: Trade Travis, Drury to 2nd, Diaz Backup
7. SS: Gurriel Jr, Urena Backup
8. 3rd base: Diaz, with Drury/Urena backup
There are rotation questions : whether Stroman or Sanchez can hack it in the rotation. Last year was basically a lost year for both. They want ot be in the rotation because that is where the money is, but health and performance issues may force one or both to the bullpen.
There are a few spots left which I assume will be filled by minor leaguers making good and getting promoted. This team will win nothing in the new few years. So all the while a good GM with try to upgrade at every position except for Gurriel Jr and Jansen.
You obviously spent a great deal of time writing this, a pity it is mostly nonsense.
typing that up is an hour of time you will never get back… and I will never get back the last painful minute of me reading it
Seriously?
I just downvote and move on to the next one.
ey is doing a recount
Lol
I agree with most of his points.
McKinney was great for the. last year, might be the most nonsense paragraph i’ve read ever.
Nice assumption but incorrect.
He is basically a platoon guy. Batted .143 against lefties.
In August he batted .385 and as pitchers/teams adjusted to him and he failed to readjust back, in Sept Oct he batted .185.
He has shown that he is a zero war bat and below zero war defensively.
But he was “great”.
Go away
If you’re really looking to compete then why would you keep an aging and declining Pillar at centerfield who couldn’t even hit anyways and get rid of McKinney who, you claim, sucks even though he averages better than Pillar and is way younger with more upside!? Especially when Grichuk is more than capable of holding his own at centerfield. That move alone makes no sense.
Jays need to deal Pillar. Sooner rather than later. Some competitive teams can use him as a CF/LF platoon against lefties.
What a loser!!! Lol
wow that was a lot of crazy talk jimmer.
Just a tear down that should have happened two years ago. And for those who said trade Pillar, of course Pillar is to be traded, I covered that under “Upgrade all positions” comment, but the Jays need to start somewhere.
As for those who like Mckinney, realize that as pitchers adjust to him he is going to have adjust which he has not. He started off strong but in the last month or so, tanked badly. I suspect he” end up as an average Mjor leaguer, but nothing that can be built around. He’ll streak but then tank. That is why I say trade him now.
sure… but in your mind how far is this club from competing?
The Jays have good players at most positions, but are very think in pitching in the majors and minors. Only one elite arm down there and two elite postion players.
To answer your question of how long to compete, there are two answers, with Atkins/Shapiro at the helm, maybe another 3 years(2022);; with an elite GM of the order of Gillick/Cashman/Drombroski/Theo, they’d be back in the hunt the year after next (2020).
The teardown was a year too late and was obviously pushed by ownership and attendance 3M+ a year. I’m positive that without Rogers influence they wouldnt have kept bautista and kept holding on..
McKinney is 23 years old! And despite whether or not you think he’ll be able to adjust he still gets on base better than Pillar! Pillar is the wrong age, more expensive, never could hit or get on base and now he’s declining and you want to keep him!? That alone doesn’t make sense.
Pillar is the wrong age?? The reigning World Series MVP is 35!
It’s not that I want to keep one vs the other. I want them both gone.
McKinney couldn’t hit in AAA. Temper the excitement.
And as I wrote elsewhere:
Mckinney is basically a platoon guy. Batted .143 against lefties.
In August he batted .385 and as pitchers/teams adjusted to him and he failed to readjust back, in Sept Oct he batted .185.
He has shown that he is a zero war bat and below zero war defensively.
Pillar again swatted 15hrs and had a career high 59 RBI’s. He had a down year defensively but he is NOT is decline. He probably has 2 elite defensive years in center left in him and at least 5 more years of .250BA 15 hrs 50+ RBis.
I would trade him to a contender at the deadline.
That just insinuates the jays would go for it. There is some merit on some of it, but signing Corbin isn’t a very wise move
Gotta start somewhere and a guy like Corbin doesn’t come around too often. Most FA starters aren’t this good and I project him to be longterm very good.
Jimmertree only thing that could have made your post more cringeworthy is if you pretend to be a scout again.
I don’t even know where to start with this, do I correct the various players not even in the organization still or just move on…. ya lets just leave this alone, he is too far gone
It’s hard to believe that there’s been about two years of these posts too
And most comments, {not all] have turned out to be right-on, correct, worthy of applause.
By the way I did call that Donaldson was not going to be traded at the deadline last year. In the Blue Jays room there were two opposing views. One to keep him and go for the draft pick and one to take the broken down pitcher from Cleveland.
What actually happened is a Jays executive panicked and “strongly suggested” the trade to be made.So it was done.
Merryweather is slotted by me to be a decent relever type in the order of Dustin Mcgowan, who was good for year or two.
Is that good return for Donaldson? No it isn’t.
I personally think that the smart move for them would be to do a complete re-build.
The Redsox and Yankees are going to be good for years to come, so no need to waste the money now.
Send the established ones to the contenders and rack up on prospects.
Maybe sign a couple of potential bounce back guys to flip them into prospects at the deadline as well.
They’re currently in a “complete rebuild.” All the veteran guys who aren’t part of the future will be gone by Spring Training/next season’s trade deadline.
They’ve been clearing out the roster since Shapiro got there.
He should have been honest with the fans.
Amen, Shapiro is not to be trusted with this franchise.
Agreed. Shapkins got nothing of long term value from Donaldson, Happ, Estrada, etc. Maybe they got lucky hiring Tito in Cleveland, but other than that their teams weren’t Championship caliber. They are farm system directors, not MLB President/GM material. Shame what Rogers did to Beeston and AA. #FireShapkins
Preach it Charles!
SHATKINS shouldn’t have been trusted the moment they arrived! I mean they actually toyed with replacing Gibby with Eric-bleeping-Wedge!
I say get em out and bring AA back!
They have $17MM in guarenteed contracts for 2020, they are already in a full rebuild. They have a top 3 or 5 at worst farm system. They have been trading away all players lacking long term control.
The build has been slowly going for several years, we now are just seeing the full teardown in 2019 or what the Blue Jays version of that will be.
They are not going to strip it down to a 100 lose team.and they wont need to anyway
Good to see the Jays in an honest rebuild.
Im curious what other Jays (and non Jays) fans think the roster construct should be.
Heres my 2 cents
Im going to include Vlad in the lineup knowning full well it wont include him till May
We need to sign SP. Or get one via trade. We could take on alot of Salary in exchange for prospects, or give a bloated 1 year deal to one or two looking to rebuild value
Id like to see Harvey get a high dollar 1 year deal and try to trade him at the deadline. Or sign Kikuchi to a deal seeing he could line up for a run after 2020. (No cahill please mlbtr)
Jansen has C locked up. Mcguire should backup. Maille is expendable. Trade him for a low level prospect to a team in need of defense first catchers (whoever signs grandal?) Martin is also hopefully sent elsewhere to free up the congestion. Eating his salary for a prospect or two is feasible
I think we could get some trade value for Smoak, free up 1b for Tellez or Vlad if his glove isnt playing at 3b. Morales can rotate in against lefties to save Tellez. Im also on board trading (whatever low value offer we could get) or releasing Morales and eating his contract
Travis is hanging by a thread at 2b. If anyone offered anyone that could be anything in 5 years id jump on it. Drury and Gurriel need playing time more than Travis
Ss is sadly Tulos for the next 2 years IF he can stay relatively healthy. Im not against having him at 1B if his bat still plays (again IF he can be healthy). Id prefer seeing Gurriel there for the long haul tho. Unless Bichette shows to be better.
3b is set in May June and maybe July unless Vlads Glove is horrendous. Drury should get April and any DH days Vlad gets
OF of Mckinney,Grichuck,Alford with Pompay as the 4th outfielder or Smith JR if he is indeed out of options. Id like to see Pompay get 1 more kick at the can, He’s been very good defensively and had flashes with the bat, still has blazing speed, but had bad luck with injuries.
We could probably get a middle of the road prospect for pillar. May as well take it at this point.
Im not gonna touch on RP as its a crap shoot like no other in MLB and our Starters are essentially set if we dont add any FA (1. Stroman 2. Sanchez 3. Borucki 4. Reid-foley 5. Panonne/Gaviglio)
So basically seeing were lowering payroll organically by playing mostly kids, we can use the Rogers purse strings to stock prospects for future trades we will need to make in 2-3 years to fill holes
you know have the guys you want to trade have contracts no one wants or have almost no value.
geez are most jays fans this dense
Of course at their full contracts none of the vets are valuable. But if Rogers pays off the bulk of the salaries then Yes they hold value.
Martin could go to 3 or 4 teams looking for Catching.
IF tulo rebounds and has 4 solid months with the bat and returns to his quality D he to could get a prospect at the deadline from a contender
If Sanchez finger is back to 100% he holds tremendous value as a young SP with fire balls
Even Stroman can net you a few decent prospects if he turns in a quality first half.
Pillar can solidify CF on a number of contenders.
I fail to see how you believe they hold no value at all…..
That dense? Frankly, yes, many Jays fans are that dense. The heavy, misguided influence of Sportsnet (the Jays full-time broadcaster and public relations firm) is to blame. That said, there are many informed Jays fans who deserve much better from their ball club – but, your average Jays fan? Dense.
Gord if you could read my mind….spot-on.
Pompey will never be a good big leaguer. He can’t hit and he can’t run good defensive routes. He is a 4A player. He needs to be cut loose.
Agreed, JT. Jays fans need to stop talking about Dalton Pompey – good lord. He’s 4A at best. He’s a lesser version of Travis Snider. It’s like the Red Sox thinking Will Middlebrooks is coming back to town to win a batting title – move on.
I am going to get hammered for saying this, but, there is a business case for signing Bryce Harper for 14yrs and 420M. The Jays have no elite level OF prospects at all. Harper is a true middle of the order bat and put him either in front of or behind Guerrero for the 6-10 years and you would have two legitimate MVP and HOF candidates in the middle of the order for a long period of time. Surround them will good players like Bichette, Biggio, Jansen, Kevin Smith, Gurriel, and others and you have the makings of championship level offense. Bring in a couple of TOR arms over the next two years and hope that Pardinho, and Pearson are healthy and as good as they look and the Jays can be challenging in either 2020-2021.
Im not Mad at the idea. But i wouldnt suggest it as a sound investment.
Pro. Having him hit in front of Vlad would get him lots of good pitches to hit.
Pro. Rogers Center would increase his home run rate
Pro. If there is a team outside of the Yankees Redsox and Dodgers that could afford that kind of mega deal, the Rogers conglomerate running the jays are it
Con. That’s alotta dough and hinders future big expenditures more than you’ll probably want
Con. His legs on turf. No CF usage
Con. Where does he play that isnt blocking prospects or occupied by high priced vets like our Dh spot? We still need to play Alford and Smith Jr. Grichuck still has value as does McKinney. Pillar still has a roster spot. Morales has to play somewhere.
Your pros and cons are spot on! Especially the part about TURF! If they don’t drop some coin on that field ASAFP, good luck getting anyone like Harper to sign…they aren’t stupid and will pass on us ina. Heartbeat!
Not like Tavares signing with the Leafa to play back home. Can’t really screw up ICE!
I think that a bunch of these long posts are obviously big fans and it’s nice to get there side of opinions
Are you really considering Vlad Jr. a HOF candidate before he ever plays in the majors? I guess he could go in along with Jurickson Profar and Byron Buxton. Even considering Harper a HOF candidate right now is a stretch. He could easily end up like Ruben Sierra or Andruw Jones. Slow your roll just a bit.
Andruw Jones will get into the HOF.
430 HRs – top 50 all time on the list
10 GG – 2nd most all time on the list
He will get in.
I was so happy Jones got 7.3 percent of the votes his first time on the ballot last year.
10 consecutive Gold Glove awards in center are more than anyone except Willie Mays.
Defensive stats are highly subjective, Jones is elite on any scale. first all-time OF (second to Brooks Robinson) in Total Zone Runs above average, which Bbref regards as the best all-encompassing historical defensive stat.
Whether that is true or not, my point was that he looked like a slam dunk HOFer at age 26 and he is not a slam dunk HOFer now. It’s true, he could sneak in through the veteran’s committee, but even that is not guaranteed.
Well the only 80 after scored for a bit tool and hitting .380 in the AFL/AAA/AA says Mr Guerrero will have a fighting chance at a damn good career.
He could end up with a HOF career. I am not discounting that at all. But so could anyone in the minor leagues right now. Yes, some have a better chance than others, but none of them have more than a 1% chance at best before they ever play in the majors.
There 100% is a case that the Jays should add a high impact OF as their true lack of quality is in the OF. You cant really hang your hat on Alford, maybe biggio is a nice OBP/power guy but Randal and Pillar are on their final two seasons or soon traded.
So yes they should in theory make a run at Bryce even if thats a stupid amount of money.. Despite the fact that as of next year the Jays have almost no committed salary outside of a final Tulo year and a small amount on Lourdes in guaranteed contracts.
In reality however they will not likely play on him, their GM already kinda said the two big boys are not on their radar.
However your point is accurate in that they need to find a second elite bat to pair with Vlad. If Bo is an elite bat as well that is great but they do need another elite guy to really make it a solid core lineup.
Frank I made this suggestion 3 months ago and got hammered for it. The Jays should be going after Harper to play alongside Vlad. They’d have a ridiculous 1-2 punch for years. They have money to spare and they can go after other players as money comes off the books the next couple years.
Padres get: Troy Tulowitzki and Richard Urena
Blue Jays get: Wil Myers, Luis Perdomo, Miguel Diaz, Robbie Erlin, Brett Kennedy.
Didn’t you post this earlier in the week? Jays have no use for Myers.
PAdres aren’t going to do that.
Shapiro is still learning. He did what he had to do.
Anthopoulos put all his chips on the table playing a long shot. Left Shapiro a bloated payroll that the owners could not continue to fund; an aging roster of overpaid players that could not be moved for anything decent; and a hallowed out farm system.
Shipiro knew he had to clear out the roster and go into a rebuild. But in typical Shapiro fashion, he misled local fans saying they could compete – or surprise – each year. Could have been like Theo, been honest with the fans, and tank for 3-4 years to get some high draft choices.
Not at all sure how their prospects will pan out. Shapiro and Antonetti were in a Never-Ending Rebuild combing through statistics in Cleveland until they lucked into Francona. He slowly gave baseball ops direction.
The hiring of Charlie Montoyo as manager shocked me. Shapiro has always resented and dismissed baseball people that had put in long years at unpleasant jobs. Shapiro seems to have followed what his mentor – John Hart – did once the Braves rebuild was in place and players were beginning to trickle onto the major league roster. Hart promoted a coach with a long history of managing in the minors – Brian Snitker. Shapiro brought in a similar guy in Montoyo, at a time when hiring managers with no previous experience but a penchant for statistics is in vogue.
As someone that has loved watching winning teams being put together for well over 50 years, the Jays will be interesting to watch over the next 2-3 years. Most rebuilds fail (the Twins failure of a few years ago was epic). The Jays are in the toughest division in MLB, I’m actually pulling for them to beat the odds and succeed. Although they told the fans one thing, they are to be commended for going about it the right way.
Yeah, never mind finding a little-known over-aged guy named Corey Kluber in the Padres system, trading for him, and developing him into a multi-time Cy Young level pitcher… it was Francona that made Cleveland successful.
It wasn’t Shapiro’s team drafting Clint Frazier and Justus Sheffield, then trading them both to the Yankees for Andrew Miller that made Cleveland successful…. it was the major-league skipper, whose primary responsibilities are setting a lineup and talking to the media.
Whatever, man.
Despite his horrible batting average, Russell Martin could actually have value to a team IF the Jays would eat the majority of his salary. He is terribly expensive for an older catcher.
Just keep stockpiling at this point with AA High upside types to match up with the current contention window brewing. Hopefully trade, pillar, one of Diaz or Drury for Starting pitching , shed one of tulo, Martin, morales contracts before the 2019 trade deadline. Let the kids play…
For all the people who hate Shapiro they have to understand he was put in a position where he was never going to get over with the fans. AA left a team that was entering their last window, 2013 and 2014 were huge disappointments.
Furthermore even if Shapiro wanted to rebuild a year earlier, ownership I’m sure said I don’t think so. He would have been hated more had he traded Bautista or any other hold over from that team.
As for off season moves the jays are handcuffed with some bad contracts but the good news is they’re really not trying to win this year.
Martin while he makes 20 mil, could be traded for a young player in July. Not a premium prospect obviously and the jays will have to eat most of his money but catchers with his OBP skills don’t grow on trees.
Pillar at this point is being talk as a DFA candidate. I would personally keep him and hope he starts off hot and trade him during the season although a team like the giants might interested in Pillar.
Only guy besides maybe Tepera who is at peak value or close to it is Smoak. And Smoak only has one year of control left. With a plethora of 1st base options available he’s not going to bring back a great prospect either.
Morales isn’t going anywhere as last year during ST he was a mentor to Vlad Jr ( morales played with vlad sr and close family friend)
That leaves Smoak to being moved but again Vlad Jr needs some protection in the lineup and outside of Morales ,Gurriel who provides that? So that leaves Tellez in Buffalo for a cpl months.
They move on from Diaz and keep Drury as their utilty IF and depending on Tulo’s health move on from Travis.
At catcher Jansen can start with Martin backing him up Maile DFA and reese to Buffalo . Martin mentoring Jansen for half a season isn’t a bad thing. I’d like to see Pillar gone but the lack of OF depth plus him being a fan favorite might just keep him around for another year. Grichuk , McKinney and Hernandez to round out the OF. ( Hernandez really needs to work on his defense) Jays OF organizational depth is very weak but for 2019 it’s not a priority. Hopefully sanchez and stroman rebound to increase their trade value though they should hang onto one of them ( Borucki looks like the real deal #2, #3 starter )
Even though 2019 will be a rebuild year I’m excited to see these young guys get a chance and more importantly have a manager “manage” a game
“Montoyo is a well respected baseball man”
That made me laugh out loud for some reason, like my aunt talking about a ball player.
Wish they had a trade for Tabby and Buck in the broadcast booth