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The Giants reassigned general manager and longtime front office fixture Bobby Evans in order to bring some fresh ideas into the mix after two straight disappointing seasons. Now, newly-hired president of baseball operations Farhan Zaidi faces a tall order in streamlining an expensive, veteran-heavy, underachieving roster and helping guide the Giants back to contention.
Guaranteed Contracts
- Evan Longoria, 3B: $73.166MM through 2022 (includes $5MM buyout of $13MM club option for 2023)
- Johnny Cueto, SP: $71MM through 2021 (includes $5MM buyout of $22M club option for 2022)
- Buster Posey, C: $67.2MM through 2021 (includes $3MM buyout of $22MM club option for 2022)
- Brandon Belt, 1B: $48MM through 2021
- Brandon Crawford, SS: $45MM through 2021
- Jeff Samardzija, SP: $39MM through 2020
- Mark Melancon, RP: $28MM through 2020 (didn’t exercise opt-out clause)
- Madison Bumgarner, SP: $12MM in 2019 (Giants exercised club option)
- Tony Watson, RP: $6MM through 2020 (Watson can exercise player option for a $500K buyout to opt out of contract after 2019 season)
- Pablo Sandoval, 3B: $555K through 2019 (Giants exercised club option; Red Sox responsible for the rest of the remaining $22.445MM owed on Sandoval’s contract through 2019)
Arbitration Eligible Players (service time in brackets; projections via MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz)
- Sam Dyson (4.142) – $5.4MM
- Joe Panik (4.100) – $4.2MM
- Will Smith (5.155) – $4.1MM
- Hunter Strickland (3.163) – $2.5MM
- Gorkys Hernandez (3.013) – $1.6MM
- Non-tender candidates: Panik, Hernandez
Free Agents
[San Francisco Giants Depth Chart | San Francisco Giants Payroll Information]
The top eight names in the “guaranteed contracts” section (everyone except Tony Watson and Pablo Sandoval) are slated to earn approximately $135.84MM in 2019, coming off a season in which the octet generated a combined 8.3 fWAR. That’s a lower total fWAR than Mookie Betts, Mike Trout, and Jacob deGrom produced as individuals in 2018, which is indicative of the troubling situation in which San Francisco finds itself heading into this new season. Between homegrown names that haven’t been producing and high-priced acquisitions that range from underwhelming to disastrous, the Giants simply don’t know what to expect going forward from most of the biggest names on their roster.
Into this situation comes Zaidi, who brings more of an analytically-minded approach to the Giants’ more traditionally “old-school” front office. Zaidi has experience finding efficiencies while working with payrolls both small (from his time in the Athletics’ front office) and large (as the Dodgers’ GM). Ideally, the Giants would love to see Zaidi replicate what he did in Los Angeles alongside president of baseball operations Andrew Friedman — cut tens of millions in salary while still reaching the postseason every year. The Dodgers went from touching the $300MM mark in payroll at the start of Zaidi’s tenure to getting under the luxury tax threshold this past season.
Unlike with the Dodgers, however, Zaidi inherits a Giants team that doesn’t have many polished prospects ready to step into regular roles. And, while the Dodgers had their share of underperforming big contracts, injury questions weren’t quite as prevalent as they are for the Giants’ priciest assets heading into 2019.
Johnny Cueto, for instance, almost surely won’t pitch next season after undergoing Tommy John surgery in August. Hip surgery could keep Buster Posey from the Opening Day lineup. Brandon Belt battled knee problems down the stretch and has a lengthy injury history. Jeff Samardzija missed much of 2018 with shoulder issues, and Mark Melancon’s two years in San Francisco have been punctuated by multiple trips to the disabled list. Brandon Crawford dealt with nagging knee problems last year, though he also simply hasn’t hit as much over the last two years as he did from 2014-16.
Madison Bumgarner has had his own share of DL time over the past two seasons, which was certainly one reason why his numbers (3.29 ERA, 7.9 K/9, 3.33 K/BB rate over 240 2/3 IP) were a step back from his usual ace standards. That said, Bumgarner is still easily the most intriguing trade chip/extension candidate the Giants have, and what the team decides to do with the southpaw this offseason may quite possibly determine their approach for the rest of the winter.
If Bumgarner is re-signed to another extension, the Giants will add to their ledger of long-term deals and perhaps signal that they’re aiming to get back into contention right away. A Bumgarner trade, however, could lead one of two scenarios. First, the Giants could approach 2019 as a bit of a mini-rebuild, to add young talent and clear some money in order to make a renewed push for 2020. Secondly, the Giants could deal Bumgarner as part of a rebuild on the fly, adding some MLB-ready pieces that would help them fill some holes immediately.
This is complete speculation on my part, and admittedly dealing Bumgarner without getting at least one blue-chip prospect in return would be a bit of a waste. But, the Giants could explore moving Bumgarner along with either Belt or Evan Longoria in the same deal, accepting only a moderate return of either mid-range prospects, or perhaps a big league player who could help the Giants at another position (such as maybe a third baseman to replace Longoria). The Giants are reportedly looking to move Longoria, who struggled in his first season outside of Tampa Bay and is still owed over $73MM through 2022. As for Belt, he was the most productive of the Giants’ long-term assets, though dealing him would free up first base for some combination of other possibilities: giving a look to prospect Chris Shaw, Posey splitting time between first and catcher, or targeting a potentially underpriced asset in free agency or trade. Both Belt and Bumgarner have partial no-trade clauses that allow them to block deals to 10 and eight teams, respectively, so it could be a bit tricky finding a willing trade partner for this scenario who isn’t on either player’s no-trade list.
Such a deal would give San Francisco more flexibility with both roster construction and the payroll. After they (barely) ducked under the Competitive Balance Tax threshold last season, the Giants reset their luxury penalization to zero, and they’ll pay only a first-timer minimum penalty should they surpass the $206MM payroll limit. So while the team doesn’t necessarily face any huge restraints in regards to spending, getting one big contract off the books is probably a logical step if the team is preparing to make another high-priced addition.
Signing Bryce Harper, of course, would be the biggest such move the Giants could make, though early reports have suggested the club isn’t going to be a major suitor for the 26-year-old free agent. San Francisco has the resources and the ownership track record to pursue just about any free agent, or to take on a big contract from another team in a trade, though it remains to seen if the Giants will be as aggressive in this regard under Zaidi as they were under the Brian Sabean/Bobby Evans regime.
If we’re mentioning Harper, it’s only fitting that we also at least throw Manny Machado’s name out there. While Zaidi just a few months removed from bringing Machado to the Dodgers in a trade, a Machado/Giants connection seems unlikely at best. To make room for Machado at third base or shortstop, San Francisco would have to move either Longoria or Crawford, and neither player has much in the way of immediate trade value thanks to their salaries and lackluster 2018 seasons (plus, Crawford’s contract grants him full no-trade protection). Eating money to facilitate a Longoria/Crawford trade and also paying $350MM+ for Machado doesn’t seem like a very realistic proposition.
The two corner outfield positions and second base are the most pressing areas of need around the diamond for the Giants. Barring trades, the other spots will be covered by Longoria at third base, Crawford at shortstop, Belt at first base, defensively-gifted youngster Steven Duggar in center field, and Posey receiving the bulk of playing time behind the plate (while also getting some rest games as a first baseman). A reunion with veteran backup catcher Nick Hundley has been mentioned as a likely possibility while Posey is on the mend, with youngster Aramis Garcia also in the mix.
Austin Slater, Mac Williamson, Gorkys Hernandez (if he isn’t non-tendered), utilityman Alen Hanson, and Shaw are in the mix for bench duty for perhaps a share of a platoon in left or right field. For at least one of the two outfield positions, however, the Giants will surely add an established everyday player, either on the trade front or in free agency. If a record-setting contract for Harper is too rich for the Giants’ blood, other free agent options include Michael Brantley or old friend Andrew McCutchen. A.J. Pollock is a center fielder by trade, though if he is willing to consider a position change, he and Duggar would be a great defensive pairing in AT&T Park’s expansive outfield (or Pollock could play center himself if Duggar isn’t ready for everyday action).
Marwin Gonzalez’s versatility makes him a good fit on most teams, though he’d be particularly useful to the Giants rotating between the corner outfield spots and second base. Joe Panik was a replacement-level player (0.1 fWAR) last season, and considering his lack of power, the downturn in his defensive metrics, and injury history — not to mention the glut of options on the second-base market — San Francisco could simply non-tender Panik and seek out a more reliable, cost-efficient, and/or controllable option. Jed Lowrie might be an interesting player to consider in this regard, as a familiar name to Zaidi from their time in Oakland and a quality player who wouldn’t require too lengthy a contract given his age (35 in April).
At a projected $4.2MM in arbitration, Panik isn’t a bank-breaker to retain, though the Giants could get themselves some extra cover at second base with a multi-position addition like Gonzalez. Not to say that the next Max Muncy or Chris Taylor is awaiting the Giants, but Zaidi’s Dodgers had a knack for finding those types of hidden-gem utility types. Looking elsewhere around the bench, Sandoval and Hanson line up as the utility options, and the Giants will have to sort through the aforementioned outfield candidates to figure out their backup situation. Williamson and Hernandez are both out of options, which could give them a leg up on the other possibilities.
San Francisco’s bullpen turned in a quietly solid year in 2018, headlined by Watson’s excellent year and Will Smith posting some strong numbers after returning from Tommy John surgery. Melancon also pitched well after making his season debut in June, and the Giants are hopeful that he can reclaim his old closer’s job and finally start to provide a quality return on that big contract. I’d guess the Giants might add another depth arm or two, though relief pitching doesn’t appear to be a major priority for the team this winter.
Losing Cueto is a big hit to the Giants’ rotation, though the team did find some unexpected starting help from rookies Dereck Rodriguez and Andrew Suarez last season. Those two 26-year-old arms are penciled into a starting five that features a lot of uncertainty, given Bumgarner’s trade situation, Samardzija’s health, and Chris Stratton’s inconsistency. Ty Blach and minor league righties Shaun Anderson and Tyler Beede could also fight for consideration in Spring Training, though Beede will have to strongly rebound from significant struggles at both Triple-A and in a brief big league cameo.
It would theoretically help the Giants quite a bit to add another front-of-the-rotation type of pitcher who could both contribute in 2019 and also anchor the starting staff in the future, should Bumgarner depart in free agency or be shipped out in a trade. Top free agents like Patrick Corbin, Dallas Keuchel, or Nathan Eovaldi could all fit the model as a long-term answer, or a shorter-term solution like J.A. Happ could also be considered. The Giants are one of several teams who have scouted Yusei Kikuchi and the organization’s interest in the Japanese left-hander dates back years, so San Francisco will certainly be a player if Kikuchi is posted as expected.
While the Giants could shop at the high end of the market, it’s worth noting that the team hasn’t had much luck on expensive pitching contracts in recent years, between the Cueto and Samardzija signings and Matt Cain’s extension. AT&T Park’s pitcher-friendly reputation make it a popular destination for relatively inexpensive veterans looking for a rebound year, so the Giants could pursue such arms in the hope of finding the next Derek Holland. The southpaw revived his career in San Francisco last season, posting a 3.57 ERA, 8.9 K/9, and 2.52 K/BB rate over 171 1/3 innings after signing a minor league contract that came with just a $1.5MM base salary. Holland is sure to land more in his latest trip through free agency, though his price tag won’t be too high for the Giants to consider a reunion.
There’s really no shortage of options facing Zaidi, who is open to any and all possibilities when it comes to getting the Giants on track as quickly as possible. A total rebuild doesn’t appear to be on the table this winter, nor does a major spending spree, but pretty much anything in between seems to be under consideration. The Giants could end up being as active and creative of any team this offseason, though it remains to be seen if enough can be done to get the club turned around in time to be a factor in what should be a competitive NL West in 2019.
Covered this earlier in a Yankees post but MadBum/Crawford OR MadBum/Longoria are gonna get traded to the Yankees. The name to look out for is Trevor Stephan coming vack to SF. An under the radar prospect with plus command. Him and D-Rod along with J. Sheffield will anchor that staff for the next 10 years.
Crawford has a no trade clause.
Sure he’d wave it to play for a 100 win contending team.
No he wouldn’t, he’s from SF and has said he is never leaving and will retire a Giant. Also he has 2 rings already – unlike all the Yankees. Stop dreaming.
Not everyone wants to play for the Yankees
True. Not every player can handle playing in NY.
Balk – if he’s offered to a team that is winning he’d probably go he knows with Belt just a pillow away from next concusse and all the old guys it’ll be awhile for G-men to turn it.
Palmerpark, the only thing I’ve learned about Crawford is he grew up in the Bay, his contract was made up to keep him from ever being traded cause he doesn’t want to move his family around. Now if the team can move him to the A’s he might go there. But other then that it’s a long shot.
no clue – going nowhere – this season he drives to gaps.
Only if he agrees to trade and extend a la Roy Halladay to Phillies, or Prime Johan Santana to Mets.
That’s the only way I’d be OK with cashing Sheffield in this trade scenario and Longoria is overkill my man! We take Longoria, if you take Ellsbury… Not gonna happen
Don’t take offense, but I am so sick of Yankee fans trying to unload Ellsbury. Nobody is going to take that guy N-O-B-O-D-Y.
Longoria actually produced last year, albeit with mediocre results. I could tell he was pressing the first half of the season. I don’t think he’ll be an all-star again but he’ll be productive enough. I think the Giants, unless they get a decent enough offer, will simply keep him for another year and focus on OF and 2nd base.
Besides, this is stupid. The last thing the Yankees need is a 3rd baseman. Crawford won’t accept a trade and frankly, when you have a great shortstop with nobody to take his place, you don’t trade him anyway. I’d say he and Buster are pretty much anchors for the duration of their contracts.
> The last thing the Yankees need is a 3rd baseman.
Have you SEEN Andujar’s advanced defensive stats?
-16.0 UZR, -24.5 UZR/150, -25 DRS
He’s about as *bad* at 3b as Matt Chapman is *good*
DH him and get someone else for the hot corner.
He’s young. Get someone to help him out. Besides the Yanks are going after Manny anyway, right? That’s what every. single. Yankee. fan. is. telling. me.
He also was benched twice during the playoffs for being absolutely terrible at 3B, so, you can’t even rely on him when it matters.
Is Madbum from Jersey?
North Carolina.
Thanks Gil
Yanks are going to sign Corbin and keep their prospects.
Bum not going to Yankees now with the Paxton trade
You trade Madison Bumgardner- Phillies, especially if they sign Harper and/or Machado
You trade Brandon Crawford – Brewers
You trade Will Smith- Nationals
You trade Hunter Strickland- Braves
You trade Joe Panik- Pirates
You trade Brandon Belt and $$$. – Mariners
Tear down the core, rebuild the farm with higher end prospects couple years away that coincide with Samardjza and Cuetos deals expiring. maybe ready by 2022 instead of MLB ready. Put Longoria or Posey at 1st.
Sign players looking to recoup value to 1 or 2 year deals
Freddy Galvis to play SS
Josh Harrison Logan Forscythe to play 2B
Tyler Clippard, Johnny Venters, Carson Smith, Greg Holland, Zach Mccalister as RP options to rebuild value and possibly trade at deadline.
I’ve actually never laughed this hard at a comment. Who’s “you”? Lmao. Ok chief.
you- giants front office. who else has the power to trade them? you unsure how these things work? was it really that hard of a concept? sorry for confusing you. my apologies.
Giants front office should trade them. Better? Or should I specifically say SF Giants GM Farhan Zaidi should trade them? SF stands for San Francisco and GM stands for General manager in case you werent sure of what I was referring to with shorter abbreviations.
Ok in all realness. What business do you, a padres fan, have doing with such detailed explanations on what the giants should do? Have you watched the minor league teams? Have you watched more than 25 games of 2018 giants baseball? I understand it when fans of division rivals post their general thoughts on what direction an organization should go, but you’re out here telling me who the giants should trade, where they should trade them, who they should sign, why they should sign them? Like as if you have the best interest of the Giants in mind? I understand it when it’s ironic but this clearly isn’t ironic.
For the record you know the Giants have Alen Hanson to play 2B right? So they obviously don’t need Harrison and Forsythe. I’m just kidding, of course you knew! You know exactly what you are talking about. Proceed to feed me with more valuable information.
Well if you move Longoria to 1B Alen Hanson would play 3B…….did you get your glasses checked man? Cause I did say moving Longoria to 1st was in the plans if you trade Belt.
Yeah, my bad. So Posey is the closer, Zito comes out of retirement to play left field, and we got this young stud named Tim Lincecum to lead the hitting core. Think my glasses are fixed.
1. Not where to trade them, but who’d have the most interest according to need. You trade them to whoever gives you the best offer. The teams I listed would possibly have the highest interest.
2. A rebuilding club routinely signs cheap 1 to 2 year deals with veterans looking to rebuild value. The above names are just possible targets that would fit the criteria- short term cheap deals (1 to 2 years) that could be dealt at the trade deadline if they prove fruitful. Typically, SP, RP, and INF tend to prove more fruitful than OF in these situations.
3. General direction is rebuild. You rebuild by tearing down and starting over. Half assed rebuilds hardly ever work. Rebuilding teams look for low invests to flip in the interim while long term assets develop and trade their best assets for cost controlled pieces.
I mean, itll sell seats and guarantee a top 3 overall draft pick the next couple years while the Giants wait for Samardjza and Cueto and majority of the money they owe to come off the books. Why not.
Yeah sorry I forgot you were a padres fan, you have a PHD in tank. Probably should have kept my mouth shut.
Cubs and Astros taught me most of what I know. Unfortunately Padres dont tank too well. Wish we had top 3 picks and 1st overall picks. Make things a lot easier. Instead of drafting top 5 or below. Orioles and Royals doing it right.
What business or credentials do you have to comment on anything baseball related? Also, 25 games? Giants and Padres played each other 19 times last year lol and San Francisco had 7 nationally televised games making it 26 possible games a padres fan could of watched of 2018 san francisco giants baseball.
Hilarious. I applaud you for reading through all my comments.
Why you gotta be a troll man
Usually because of boredom. Sunday night, nothing much to do. At least this guy was a good sport about it, and didnt get all defensive and offended like Xabial.
Nope, baseball1600 you’re the troll. All you ever do is comment towards other people you clown. just ban this jag already.
@Balk and @baseball1600 are either the same troll, or two nuts that share the same brain.
Why would you move a 3-time Gold Glove 3rd baseman to 1st? He might have lost a step but he’s a few years away from sliding across the diamond. Wouldn’t it be smarter to simply grab a cheap power bat for first or toss Chris Shaw there?
I second this comment. Not all my posts are trolls, I meant what I said about how this nut shouldn’t be acting like the Giants GM.
Here’s the reality padre fan, all those moving parts aren’t realistic. Could it happen? Sure. Will it happen. Probably not. The Giants have a crap load of money, one of the biggest franchises out there. I’ll bet they hang tight and see where clubs are at closer to the trade deadline before moving much of anyone. UNLESS clubs offer something the front office can’t refuse. A lot of those players at the top of that list are either injured or stuck with the contracts. More then likely this club will be molded over the years piece by piece.
Aren’t you the guy that trolls Yankees articles?
Why move Longoria to first when most of his value comes from being a quality defender at third (while his bat is starting to slowly deteriorate)?
The rest of the league really hopes the Giants continue to pay huge contracts and trade for players past their prime. It is a wonderful long term business plan.
you have to d.f.a. longoria. his mind-set is detrimental to the team. . 97 ops+ 2017 90 o.p.s.+ 2018
perhaps you could trade hunter & belt
you are psychotic if you believe they would sign bryce or machado
they could trade suarez or stratton no gorky or loe panik.
Nop
You wrong
You idiot
You not trade anymore
You sign Bryce Harper
You sign manny machodo
You sign A J pollock
You sign Patrick Corbin
Giants in contention
I like to see Bryce Harper buy
Hunter Strickland dinner
Or you try Strickland to dodger for Clayton Hershey
Now giants should win the world championship
Hell yeah love your enthusiasm. Forget my comment this guy is on to something.
Pay Machado and Harper 30 million a year each. Pay Corbin 20 mill a year. Pay Pollock 20 mill a year. Oh man 250 million dollar pay roll here we come! You cant spell championship with out money!
Thanks for the detailed poem, Woodstock.
Ok it’s funny how you’re trying to be sarcastic towards a guy who is being sarcastic.
You realize that’s what they did in L.A. right. Brought in a bunch of stars while developing their farm. Once farm was ready, they backed off a little.
Still not touching LAD my friend.
You aren’t getting 162 games from any of those guys, and instead more Gorkys Hernandez-types on your way to 84 wins.
and LA won zero titles from that method.
LA won six NL West titles and two pennants. There hasn’t been a run of success like that since the Braves in the 90’s. Or the Giants in the 2010s.
I totally agree with that, but try telling that to the “titles are the only thing that matters, Beane is the worst GM” crowd on here.
Lol, I can’t with this. I’ll start with Brandon Crawford’s NTC (not to mention Belt’s partial NTC), and that Crawford certainly wouldn’t waive it to go to the Brewers. As for ANY of your trade suggestions… why? And for whom?
You say “Tear down the core, rebuild the farm with higher end prospects”, but the Giants will get little to no value from the pieces that they have due to decline, big contracts, or both. Even MadBum won’t really return anything spectacular since he’s only going to be under contract for one more year.
Giants need a serious rebuild. Can’t they just accept the fact that these last two seasons have been just awful. They know they can’t afford Bryce Harper (I know for a fact that he’s not leaving Washington; 1 year deal to increase his value for next season), so why don’t the Giants just give up and wait a few years. I can see them back in the world series in as early as 2024 (just a guess).
Yes you know for a fact. It’s already happened. We’re just all a few months behind your universe, that’s all.
it’s more than that, really what is happening with the roster is less important than rebuilding the farm, there are a lot of ways to do that, they may need to think about doing what the Dodgers did rather than what say the Astros did- that is they should think about doing the voodoo of taking on some bad contracts or short terms or going into some weird 3 way swaps in order to rebuild the minor league system. when you do that you don’t need to dump anyone you don’t want to, some guys will need to move but it isn’t like you dump the whole roster to rebuild.
Yup, and the fact that they headhunted Zaidi from the Dodgers, the architect of that plan for LA, suggests this is the direction the Giants are planning to follow. Will Giants’ ownership be willing to push payroll way beyond the luxury tax for several years though? That’s half of the plan the Dodgers used.
If that is indeed Zaidi’s plan, and he was forthright about it, I can’t see why the ownership would sign off on him if they weren’t okay with it.
He was hired to implement ownership’s overall plan, so I am looking at this somewhat the other way around. I am thinking they maybe made that hire with the idea of following the same path. We should know the answer soon enough.
they have always been pretty open to pushing past the tax line, i would think too that a good part of remaining under the tax last year had a lot to do with them knowing that in order to / rebuild that it was going to cost them.
Wolf, I was going to write something similar. Essentially the Giants have a handful of prospects left in the minors that if they reach their potential will in 2 – 4 years be big leaguers. The problem is they only have that handful, they traded away their best pitching prospect in a salary dump last year, Anderson so far looks at best a #3 or 4 type starter and they have very little after that for minor league starters.
The focus of the front office should be of putting in a better development staff in the minors so that more of the drafted players can reach major league potential, and they probably need to find a few different scouts, Hjelle is a perfect example of the poor decision making the current scouts and front office were making. You spend a 2nd round pick on a guy who at his best looks to maybe be a #4 type starter? That was a very disappointing pick. Not saying they missed on everyone, obviously not the case, but those first 5 rounds should be high end prospects. Hope I’m wrong on Hjelle.
the giants drafted close to number one in 2017 and will again in 2018. you are saying all those picks are a waste. no. forget heliot and joey, there were 75 other picks and you are saying they suck.. no .plus the picks from 2016 they have just started to discuss. in 2018 the fans saw suarez, garcia, slater, avelio,, hanson, rodriguez,,duggar, stratton, black, moronta, and jones. hey, there are guys here ready. stratton being .the only high draft pick. . the farm has never been the best, and there is none in baseball to disagree. but there are guys beyond the top of the draft. you are unable to establish mind set with players like gorky’s in center field or longoria at third, batting 4th. this propagates losing. as madbum stated about duggar,,,if he hits .000 it is o.k. as long as he is in center field
“I know for a fact that he’s not leaving Washington; 1 year deal to increase his value for next season”
Lotto numbers please
So you posted this 11 hours ago saying he’s going to take a 1-year deal from Washington as a FACT. That’s interesting… I’d love to know where you got your information that it’s a definite. Mostly since he is projected to grab a $300 to $400 million dollar contract.
And the fact that he turned down a $300M deal. He’s not turning down that kind of money to “increase his value:”.
Let me fix your comment using your own words:
They know they can’t afford Bryce Harper (… he’s not leaving Washington… just a guess).
That’s an insane amount of payroll dropping after 2021. Goes along with a massive roster turnover.
Going to be an interesting next three years. They need to develop some young talent in that time.
yeah that is the long and short of it, they need talent in the system, right now there are like 4 or 5 names through the entire system that have gotten anyone excited right now but there needs to be a lot more than that if the team had any kind of future. i think people underestimate how much of a problem the farm has been when a few years ago the giants ran out of players and almost couldn’t field their aa team, had to sign independent and volunteers just to field a team….
The Yankees don’t want anything the giants have lol pfffff
Yeah lol Gray > Bumgarner amiright
? Gray is getting dumped by the Yankees. There’s Interest from 11 teams. hope he nets Yanks more of a return than a QO, Bumgarner gets Giants, after he signs w/ an actual contender… like NYY.
Go home Xabial, your posts are drunk!
Reds and A’s are 2 of the teams in on Gray. Your guess what prospects as good as mine lol.
Please understand I was trolling baseball1600, I respect the Giants’ decision to go for it, with trades, despite the results. respect the Giants
I think that was the point of this guy’s comment. The Yankees are going to need starters. Are you seriously saying they wouldn’t want Bumgarner?
Dude you’re all over the map.
i think spending a bunch of money on a guy who has had two TJ operations is a very unnecessary risk in the giant’s world right now. that is one guy i really h ope they don’t actually sign.
Giants (technically) give Zaidi a “promotion” over Sabean?
Sabean was “Vice president of baseball operations”
Zaidi was given “President of baseball operations” title.
It’s ok… Sabean’s other “titles” mean much more^^^
Sabean is phasing himself out. He initially tried to do that when Evans was promoted, but that didn’t work out so well and he had to get more involved in the day-to-day operations again.
Look!!! Nothing should be off the table here. We had three World Series in 5 years, and the last one we almost did not make except for a personal performance by one outstanding player. Times change and the evaluation of players had gone down to brass taxes in terms of a players valuation. Metrics are the new gold standard of this game we love. There are no more greenies to hype a player up day and day out like you had prior to he steroid era. Players are not exhibiting 15-20 year career spans of above average performance like there used to be. Youth? And consistency are the norm and at best your talking about 5-10 years at best before clubs begin shopping for new blood to fill the ranks. Money does not buy championships. Patience, and vision does now a days. We are not going to fix any of this without some hard decisions and a willingness to accept those decisions knowing their is a brighter future ahead. We can’t win them all, but we can win again if we hold the course and let go of some of the past
Except the team with the highest payroll just won the World Series over a team with top 5 payroll.
Since all teams are using stats more each year, are they all going to go to the WS by 2020?
The Giants are in the spot they’re in not because they’re “old school”. Those people got to the WS 3 out of 5 years at a time when most MLB teams were crunching numbers. The game did not pass the Giants FO and Manager by.
The Giants are in the spot they’re in because they kept throwing too much money at declining free agents and trade candidates each year trying to win. In recent years the Phillies, Tigers, White Sox and others did the same thing. The Mets are doing it today.It’s been happening since before free agency started.
The Indians are doing it right. Take step back. Trade one or two older pieces and get younger. The Nationals did it wrong for 2 years, now they’re moving young players onto the roster.
The Giants are in the spot they’re in because they paid big money for decline years and just generally have a lack of talent. Panik isn’t good, Hanson stinks, you gave 142 games to Gorkys Hernandez of all people.
The Giants have no good position players outside of Posey, Crawford and Belt, one good SP in MBum and a good bullpen. A team with any common sense would sell. The Giants don’t have that. They are a top 3 payroll team, that’s all they know now.
Giants do not want to rebuild because they know they will lose many fans. They want people in the seats so they will pretend to compete. the smart money would be to plug holes and sign some FA that do not hurt payroll. Instead they will over pay like usual and hope that everything go 100% right. Harper is not going to SF or any big name FA because they want to win.
The reason they are in the spot they are in is two-fold:
1. They had an excellent core that won them three world championships and tried to extend it to four or five. They gave big contracts to Pence, Crawford, Belt, Posey… they tried to add to it in free agency and trades, which didn’t work out. Moore was a bust, Span was a bust, Melancon was a bust, Shark was a bust, and Cueto has been hit or miss. If half of those free agents worked out they wouldn’t be nearly as bad off, but they went for it.
2. The Giants don’t like the word rebuild. They, like your Dodgers, believe in contending every year. They have a large fan base, a lot of money invested around the ballpark (they are building an entire neighborhood as we speak) and with TV/radio revenue, and don’t want to see interest drop.
Your common sense is off. The Giants definitely need to restock the farm system and overhaul the roster, but to do a five-year rebuild like the White Sox or Astros is not smart. For every Astros powerhouse there are teams like the Padres or Sox that can’t get back over the hump. They simply need to rebuild while attempting to contend. The division is always up for grabs and anything can happen in the playoffs.
The difference is they can not spend this year to make them contenders like in the past. Even a harper would not make them a contender. During those 5 years as a top team they had very few injuries now they have lots of injuries. Is madbum going to be the same? Most likely not when a pitcher enter his 30s. Do they have a closer? No Do they have any power through out the lineup? No If it wasn’t for the Padres they would be slotted last place in the division. There is not enough young prospects coming up to rebound the team. Also with their payroll its not a 5 year build its a 3 year build since they can out spend most teams.
That’s what the Giants propaganda machine shoves down your throat, but the reality is that will never lose fans because their park is located downtown in a major world tourist hub and the casual observers will always buy tickets.
Also, tickets and “fans that go to games” aren’t even that big a deal to any teams bottom line, while we’re talking about media propaganda. Corporate sponsorships bring in far more money than ticket sales.
Bay area has always been about winning teams out drawing the other team. The A’s once had the top attendance. Corporate sponsorship is for winner not bad teams.
Yeah, you’ve really thought this through JTO.
How many corporate sponsorships do you imagine a team with no fans at the games is going to draw? The whole purpose is getting in front of consumers. No fans (consumers), no sponsorships.
Go back to talking about ‘next year’ and leave the adults to talk about baseball. That’s what you’re going to be doing for the next half-century anyway.
The A’s had top attendance back in their Bash Brothers days. Since Al Davis destroyed that stadium back in the early 1990s and made it a concrete jungle they have struggled even when they were on top. It’s a miserable place to watch a game.
“Players are not exhibiting 15-20 year career spans of above average performance like there used to be.”
I hope you’re not cherrypicking Hall of Famers because the 60s had PLENTY of absolutely terrible players. Adrian Beltre has been good for 20 years. What are you talking about?
JT learning about how to rebuild a dynasty after watching the Dodgers lose the WS two years in a row
Goryk’s will be on your roster soon enough to help shore up the OF lol
I’m not a dodgers fan tho, I just picked a random player’s name I could match a music-related pun to, soooo….you can stop talking anyyyytime
I feel like replacing Bachman with Justin is a very lazy music related pun. Not saying you took a lot of time to make it or anything either. I just see your name on the Giants posts regularly so I figured you were a Dodger fan with that name.
Not sure why it posted this twice. Sorry
Giants should pull a Chapman with Madbum. Trade him to the highest bidder then bring him back in FA next offseason.
Ok. Trolling aside. From watching most of the A and AAA teams (AA roster is really unexciting) games, the Giants have some young prospects/players who are young but not too far away from breakout stage. Particularly Andrew Suarez is my favorite to watch pitch. He’s got a high ceiling and imo will be part of the next wave of TOR giants SPs. Heliot Ramos is the definition of raw talent. Dereck Rodriguez had great stats last year, but from watching him he still needs a lot of polishing and I think the league can figure him out if he can’t develop another quality pitch. Chris Shaw needs to be traded, he has no future in ATNT. Austin Slater is the definition of underrated, all of his at bats he grinds and in my opinion should get the starting center field job next year over Gorkys and the injured Duggar. Speaking of Duggar, he really reminds me of Kevin Keirmaier and I think he has a high ceiling if he can stay healthy. Moronta is a great setup man yet I don’t believe he will be a closer like many others do, and Beede is a complete bust as a SP but has potential in the bullpen because of his stuff. As far as a “rebuild” goes, I like the idea of trading Bumgarner and Will Smith, but I think Posey, Crawford, and Belt need to stay. Panik can be non-tendered and replaced by Hanson, Cueto we can’t do much about other than hope, and I think Shark is in the bullpen by the end of the year. If we don’t get a buyer on Bumgarner, just ride it out until the deadline. Bumgarner/Drod/Cueto/Suarez/Stratton in my opinion has the potential of being a great rotation. Anyways, I’d like to hear if any other Giants fans have opinions or thoughts on this or would like to share their evaluations of the youth.
There are other names out there, just as Bart, who are quite far away from making a real impact, and others who I haven’t really payed as much attention to, but I’m optimistic about the future, though it needs to be aided by a big trade. Whether that’s Bumgarner or some other surprise player that gains value in the 2019 season, we need a boost to be competitive around 2021-2022 when most of these players will start breaking out.
Bart is not far away – dude is intelligent like Posey and can rake he doesn’t need long term minor league run, check Fall league on lefty starter and 100 plus mph relief pitcher. But as far as young guys you mentioned – 4th and 5th type guys in long run. Giants farm system in shambles right now need another 2years plus of great pics to replenish – trading the old guys and others with crap contracts won’t bring you back much, just need to go through the cycle of being bad -but critical to make solid picks.
I don’t even read what you post sometimes, just automatically downvote..
Why do people think Hanson is some kind of answer? He is just as bad at getting on base as Longoria. He is exciting to watch, but he isn’t really a good defensive player and strikes out too much.
He reminds me of Jonathan Villar. He’s definitely serviceable. Him and villar are practically the same player except Hanson’s is a worse defender.
Thats your up and coming youth? If so then every team is loaded with it. Joey Bart (who was dominating players he was much older than ) and Ramos are all that is name worthy. Every tean has a Suarez, Derek Rodriguez, Slater, Duggar. Those are role players dude. Before you go nuts about D-Rod, regression exists. He was getting hit harder at the end of the year and a career jorneyman who doesnt have a good fastball. The hitters will have adjusted to him by next season
Read my comment, I talked about D-Rod and how he was due to regress. I saw what you saw. If you read my post, you’d know I said he needs another quality pitch or the league will figure him out. And not every team has a “Suarez” at least not the way I see Suarez. He has electric stuff and I really have faith in the kid, I’ve watched him since 2016 and he’s really got a high ceiling. Slater is a role player, yes, but he’s also a super-utility with a chance to become a .300 hitter. (He was hitting .300 before he got injured)
Kenley just bitter from losing the WS two years in a row
Duggar should be ready for the start of the season AFAIK. He reminds me of Steve Finley, though not sure he’ll quite develop that level of power. Hoping Williamson can stay healthy — he was fantastic until that concussion derailed his season.
Totally agree about Shaw, he has not developed any plate discipline and I don’t expect much out of him. They probably missed their window in getting any value out of him in trade.
I sincerely hope we’ve seen the last of Gorkys. And it’s a shame about Panik, but injuries have also had their effect on him. Hansen is no long term answer, either.
great read. so much about shaw, why so much about shaw, and gorky’s, the depression started with gorky’s, no gorky’s .one season and then another, in the major leagues. and d.f.a. longoria
This doesn’t make any sense. You say you’ve watched the farm clubs, yet you don’t have any commentary on any of those players. You gave a rundown of players who had significant playing time at the MLB level.
Suarez is already in the rotation. He’s not part of the next wave, unfortunately. He’s part of the stop-gap that keeps the team competitive (unless his trade value spikes).
D-Rod is the exact same.
Shaw may have options as a corner OF, but that remains to be seen. Slater is destined to be a 4OF that may get significant playing time on a weak team or as an injury fill-in (not with the Giants, as Duggar will be ready to go and has way more upside).
Moronta can certainly close, as plenty of his control issues this last season appeared to be due to lingering back issues. That’s not to say he’ll be the best option, but he seems to have the right makeup and stuff.
Beede has been disappointing, but I see him as a change of scenery candidate. Swap him with another prospect who has flatlined at a position of need and see what happens.
Panik has had some bad luck and needs to get some playing time to restore his value. Someone will want his bat and defense once he can string together a solid couple of months.
Cueto is a stud, and should still be when he comes back in 2020 off TJ. He might be the de facto ace at that point with MadBum due for FA or trade.
The bottom line is that this is a .500 team, as currently constructed. 2017 and 2018 were both very unfortunate in the quantity and impact of the injuries seen. A few other teams had superficially similar injury concerns, but to have your 1 and 2 pitchers, plus Belt (who is cursed), Panik, and Crawford for stretches, is just not something any team can overcome. They probably still would have ended up .500 if not for throwing in the towel and giving the call-ups plenty of playing time (which I fully support, the season was gone).
That’s not to say that they can contend with just a few signings, though someone like Harper would change the dynamic entirely and would put them in easy running for a WC spot. Zaidi will do what he does and the team will continue to put a decent product on the field. Ownership will require that. He’s got deep pockets to work with, so it’ll be interesting to see how he’s able to manage the mandate of competing and his innate talent for player discovery and development.
Giants are in the playoffs by 2020 and back to NLCS/WS contention by 2022.
I’d like to see the giants resign Nick Hundley, dfa Joe Panik, and sign Brian Dozier, AJ Pollock, Yusei Kikuchi, and Anibal Sanchez.
No sense throwing out the baby with the bath water, still a decent team if some things break their way in terms of health.
Alen Hanson. They don’t need dozier. If the giants sign Ramos to catch, move posey to first, move belt to left, that immediately adds depth to the lineup and saves Poseys knees, not to mention it’s pretty cheap. Put Duggar in center to help keep Belt from covering too much ground (Duggar has outstanding range) and try Williamson in right. Slater is the super-utility who can play multiple positions, Sandoval is the bench bat. Ottavino in the bullpen to close, Smith and Moronta to setup, with Melancon, Watson, and Samardzija as other presences in the bullpen and it’s an above average bullpen. Bumgarner/Cueto/D-Rod is a dangerous top of the order. However, if the giants make these moves a lot needs to go right. Ramos would need to stay healthy, Williamson and Belt would need to handle a tough OF, and your banking on Stratton/Suarez to continue to be a solid back-end and for Cueto to be healthy and in shape. I think if the giants really wanted to contend, this is the way I’d approach it so that we don’t burn ourselves in too many long term commitments, but overall I like many fans think it’s time for a retool. Everyone besides Posey Crawford and Belt can go, since those 3 all have NTCs.
Cueto had Tommy John surgery Extremely unlikely he pitches in 2019. So they need another starting pitcher
Alen Hanson is terrible at baseball.
Bro, you need to look at Hanson’s stats. He is not now, nor has he ever been good enough to be an everyday player. He is fast with a little bit of pop. That is his game in a nut shell. Doesn’t do anything else well.
Why do I need to look at stats? I watched him play last year. He plays with heart, and is a .250-.270 hitter with 40 stolen base potential and 20 HR power. Would have hit 20 last year if he didn’t get hurt and played every day.
You’re joking, right? 20 home runs if he didn’t get hurt? He hit 8 in 310 plate appearances. He’s an average to below average defender who walked only 9 times last season.
I watched him last year too. He had a hot streak for a while and I really wanted him to be the answer at 2nd base but after the hot steak wore off I got pretty tired of watching him walk back to the dugout. He doesn’t have the on base skills to make his speed as useful as it should be. and he doesn’t play defense well enough to overlook the offensive short comings.
Did you watch him take 9 walks in 310 PAs and still want to try and tell us he’s a good player? Because that’s a big no.
Why on earth would the Giants sign yet another catcher? Posey still has at least a couple of years left behind the plate, Hundley and Aramis Garcia can handle things in the short term while Posey works his way back, and Joey Bart looks like he’s on a fast track to the majors.
Posey is a lot less valuable as a 1B.
Giants have been printing money for the last 8 years. Go to the mlb Giants site and it’s loaded with World Series memorbilia for rediculous amounts of money. They don’t need huge salary relief so unloading all the contracts isnt mandatory. A few cuts to the budget here and there. Use the money to buy a few players with some prospects coming back also. That’s what theDodgers have been doing the last few years.
One thing I thought was interesting about the Giants promotional schedule is no Bumgarner memobiIia days. No Bum bobble head, tee shirt, or hat days. Nothing promoting Bum. That seemed really odd to me. Does it mean Bums as good as gone. Maybe, very tough to trade a franchise legend. Nastalgia sells big time and the Giants are one of the best at nurturing that part of the business.
Panik and cash to the Yanks for Gray. Or trade Bum to the yanks with Panik for three/four prospects. I like Hanson at second. More upside offensively than Panik and cheaper, but a downgrade on defense.
Maybe take on Santana with Phil’s eating 15 million.? Move belt to left and slater and Mac play. Rf. Giants need quality hitters and Santana qualifies.
One last thing. No trades with the rays. Holy cow they’ve got hammered the last two trades with the rays. Or corse it’s Zaidi calling the shots now.
If the Giants elect to trade Bumgarner, they have to do it to reload the talent in the organization. Packaging him with a big contract for a return of mid-range prospects would be stupid. The Astros, Phillies, Braves & Yankees (if they are actually willing to part with some of them) all have good farm systems & needs for starting pitching. Get a big package from one of those teams & start restocking your team.
I’m not sure I believe this one myself, but for a year of MadBum and four+ years of Longo, the Giants could deal with the Braves:
Bumgarner and Longoria for Teheran, Swanson, Riley, and Gohara.
It’s more a gamble for the Braves, betting on Bumgarner and Longoria returning to form while taking on Longo’s salary (MadBum and Teheran are roughly equal in 2019).
Crawford or Swanson probably would have to move to 2B (Panik non-tendered).
As I say, I’m not sure I’ve persuaded myself of this one. What it does is help the Braves win now without taking on too much dead money and it gives the Giants salary relief plus two quality ML players and two intriguing prospects who could be ready to take 25-man spots by early summer.
The Braves would hang up laughing at a proposal like this.
Longoria’s contract is a deep well of pain with no bottom for a few more seasons. Even if you did pair Longoria with Bumgarner (who isn’t the pitcher he once was but still has potential value) you’d get almost nothing for the pair (because of Longoria’s negative value). SF would be lucky to have Teheran and a low level prospect like Demerritte or Cruz coming back.
Where do we start with the Giants? Perhaps they should go a similar route that the Mariners are taking. Since the IFs can hit, focus on speed in the OF. After that, hope for good health. Most of the key players have battled poor health the last two years; That includes their Manager.
The Giants are like the Phillies and Mariners, they have a couple useful parts but need to be properly rebuilding and trading those assets if they can. Instead they are going to “spend big to contend” when that has never worked recently. The Giants are not a Harper away from catching the Dodgers, they need a dose of reality.
At least SF isn’t the “trust the process” city, the Phillies have no excuse for what they’re doing.
Expect the Giants to become much more proficient at striking out.
I think the Giants are in a unique place because of their fan base, or so I understand. I would not want to turn away fans. Even with a mediocre team, they had great attendance last year.
I would let the contracts play out and sell when it makes sense. They can afford so old name players to fill seats.
As long as they don’t trade prospects, they will eventually have a great farm.
With Golden State being great, the Giants just need to be good. I wouldn’t do a full rebuild in their situation.
Astrosfan84, that’s probably the exact thing that’s going to happen. This club has the money to spend and keep the fan base happy. Hold tight and in a couple years Trout will be out there on the market and would rather see him then Haprer any day.
This is what I keep saying: with SF being a major world tourist hub, having a baseball stadium in the downtown area is going to mean it won’t matter who is playing for them, “lets catch a game on vacation” types are always going to pack seats. Always.
The evil Giants FO does not want us thinking that though, so they do things like claim Oakland can’t move further away to San Jose, or that they can avoid a rebuild by buying FA’s. Terrible.
“…they do things like claim Oakland can’t move further away to San Jose…”
Yeah, phrase it that, like moving farther away means they are less competitive in a highly competitive market. Just forget entirely about TV revenue. SJ is the largest city in the Bay Area, and the TV money from there is enormous.
Letting the A’s build a stadium, in what has always been Giant’s territory for fan allegiance, would mean an incredible loss of revenue. The Giants giving SJ to the A’s would be equal to the Dodgers just giving truckloads of money away to the Angels. What team on any planet would do that? I guarantee you, given the same sort of situation, the Dodgers wouldn’t.
Man, that Longoria contract is looking bad.
I believe 11 million of Longloria’s contract is picked up by the rays. Still a awful deal.
Imagine if Longoria was a FA this year, would he get 5/81, 4/73 or even 4/62? Coming off a .694 OPS and 1.9 WAR and heading into his age 33 season? LOL no. But not only did the Rays give him that deal, the Giants actually traded for it!
That contract is so bad its reached “can only be moved for an equally awful contract” territory. SF is locked in with him at least until the 3rd year. Yikes – but it still doesn’t mean they should try and compete by buying FA’s, they should just sell and pray Longo regains trade value in the next 3 years.
“…moving Bumgarner along with either Belt or Evan Longoria in the same deal, accepting only a moderate return of either mid-range prospects, or perhaps a big league player…”
Seriously? That equates Belt and his contract with Longoria and his. The Giants owe Longo, 33 years old, more than $62.16M for 4 years through his age 37 season. They owe Belt, 30, $48M for 3 years through his age 33 season. Longo is coming off his 2nd sub-par season in a row with a .694 OPS, 89 OPS+. Belt is coming off only one sub-par season, but still better than Longo’s, of .756 OPS, and a 108 OPS+.
Saying Bumgarner packaged with Belt would bring back only a moderate return of mid-level prospects is off the mark. I can see that with Longo, having to accept less to have someone take him off their hands, but why would the Giants do that with Belt, who is still a productive player?