A few items from the National League…
- Atlanta’s a speculative landing spot for closer Craig Kimbrel, who starred with the Braves from 2010-14 and is now the most proven reliever available in free agency. However, barring a drop in Kimbrel’s asking price, it’s “highly unlikely” he’ll rejoin the Braves this offseason, Mark Bowman of MLB.com writes. MLBTR predicts the 30-year-old Kimbrel will reel in a whopping $70MM guarantee, which could be too much for an Atlanta team that may not be in position to make a big-money splash this offseason, as general manager Alex Anthopoulos suggested last month. Anthopoulos has made it known the Braves are interested in adding a closer this winter, though, so whether it’s Kimbrel or someone else, it appears the club is primed to bring in some late-game help.
- Dodgers closer Kenley Jansen announced Friday that he’ll undergo heart surgery Nov. 26, per Chad Thornburg of MLB.com. The procedure comes with a two- to eight-week recovery timeline, meaning Jansen should be fine by spring training. It’ll be the second heart surgery since 2012 for Jansen, who missed time with an irregular heartbeat that season and during both the 2011 and ’18 campaigns. The 31-year-old has been particularly susceptible to an irregular heartbeat at high altitude – the issue cropped up in Colorado in 2012, and he was hospitalized after a game at Coors Field last August. As a result, Jansen sat out a road series against the Rockies in September on doctors’ recommendation.
- The Reds have hired J.R. House to serve as their third base coach and catching coach, Mark Sheldon of MLB.com reports. The 39-year-old House will replace Billy Hatcher, who had been the Reds’ third base coach, and ex-catching coach Mike Stefanski, though it’s not yet known if those two will stay in the organization in different roles, per Sheldon. House, a former professional catcher and first basemen, spent the past seven seasons in player development with the Diamondbacks. He’s the third new hire for rookie manager David Bell, who previously tabbed Derek Johnson as the Reds’ pitching coach and Turner Ward as their hitting coach.
Maybe the Giants and Braves can work out a deal that sends Will Smith to ATL? He was solid last year and brings a quality lefty arm to the team and has closing experience and postseason experience.
Given the Braves needs I think a package of Smith and Bumgarner would net the Giants a return to build upon for the future. Wonder what the return for them woukd look like?
I know I’m going to get roasted, but just curious what Braves fans think of this. Bumgarner, Smith, and Crawford for Swanson, Pache, and Soroka.
As a Braves fan I ok with that! It is probably a little light for the Giants though!
Not enough going the giants way. The giants could net better packages dealing Smith bumgardner and Crawford elsewhere individually. And net more altogether most likely.
If braves are acquiring all 3- wright soroka pache are a starting point. Otherwise the giants dont benefit from trading them all to the braves.
Smith and Crawford could happen but I doubt they would deal all three together they need to maximize their packages because their farm is weak
Yeah, I’m just really high on Soroka and think he has Scherzer potential, not sure if Bum one on one would get the job done, but personally think if we are going to rebuild Soroka is the number one prospect id go after. Loved watching him pitch for the brief time he was in the majors this year. Pache also has a similar skill set to Heliot Ramos, and Swanson has always had a high ceiling and has a similar skill set to Crawford.
As a Braves fan, I’d pass on the package. While Bumgarner would be nice to have, there’s better options out there that’d I’d rather try to go after. Soroka looked really good at times this year. I think he could be just as good or better than Bumgarner. Crawford has a better track record than Swanson of course, but they’re both similar players. Will Smith has had some good numbers, but I’m not going to rely on him to close out a game in October. I’d rather go after a more proven closer.
I think this is way too light of a package coming from the Giants for this group of players. The Braves would only be getting 5 years of control total. 1 year from Bum at 12m, 1 year from Smith at an estimated 4.1m, and 3 years from Crawford (ages 32, 33, and 34) at 15m each year. These are fine prices, and is worth a surplus of ~25.3m, but based on prospect valuations, that’s about the value of Soroka alone, as a 55 future grade/top 10 pitching prospect. Now, Pache, as a 60 grade prospect/top 20 hitter brings the value of this package to…well I’m going to say 80-100m, and that doesn’t factor in that Crawford and Swanson might be already close to the same player as they just posted identical WARs of 1.9. Crawford is projected for 2.7 and Swanson 1.8, but Swanson isn’t even arb eligible yet. At the end of all that we need to highlight that the Giants would be getting 15 or 16 years of player control at an insane surplus value.
The bust rate on prospects of Soroka’s level is ~6% and it’s around 15-20% for Pache. I’m not sure how much that risk is discounted, but i don’t think it’s enough to make this a fair value.
If I were the Braves I’d try to secure an OF and reliever from free agency and spend one more season seeing how the young pitchers start to shake out, because those that don’t will probably make fine relievers, or valuable pieces for other teams that may think they can get more out of them.
I mean no disrespect to fans of either team. I think on the surface this looks okay, maybe light for what the giants would be giving up here since their 2019 value is probably higher than the ATLs hypothetical package, but yeah, those are my thoughts.
Now watch this trade be announced tomorrow.
If I am the Braves, I’m definitely not giving up 4-5 years of Soroka and 6 years of already a GG caliber CF’er, nor 3-4 years of Swanson who has def. been improving, although after his wrist injury it sucked out a lot from his bat..However, he still made some excellent strides defensively, and he was still ridiculously clutch..
So, no I’m not giving up all that cheap control for a year of MadBum…which is the only real need for the Braves out of that trade proposal..
They don’t really need Smith nor Crawford..
They already have Venters, Minter, and Biddle as returning solid and certainly above average LHRPs..That isn’t even including any of their other lesser, but still quality options in Freeman, McCreery, among a few others, or starters that don’t make the rotation like Fried, Gohara, etc.
Regardless, I’m incredibly high on Soroka. He has the mental makeup of a 10year veteran, and is just a bulldog on the mound. He’s a very mature pitcher for his age, and his future is incredibly bright..I’m not trading away Soroka, unless it’s a fairly young, cost effective, controlled, and incredibly talented top pitcher..And rarely is anyone like that even available..So, I’m pretty much keeping Soroka regardless..
Soroka, Touki, and Anderson are the main pitchers that are just about unattainable for me. The only position player in that category is W. Contreras and it would take someone really good to pry away either of Pache or Waters..
I all reality please just look at the components of that trade and ask yourself has a trade like that ever happened ? & if so how often ?
The Braves are not giving up on Swanson he was brought to ATL to be the face. He is from the area so he will be given every opportunity to succeed.
Let’s start small for as much as I would like MadBum I really don’t believe he would be a wise investment. He is signed for 1 year at a great price but the new Giants GM would be trying to get an arm and a leg for him and I don’t want to meet that price. Bryce Wilson for MadBum is more than enough. If they are looking for quantity than I would say Joey Wentz,Patrick Weigel, Izzy Wilson, Tristan Beck & Sam Freeman for MadBum & Wil Smith
Crawford has a no trade clause
I’m a Braves fan and I agree with this 100%. Unless we are doing a trade on someone who is clearly at the peak or near the peak (going forward) of their career then its hard to justify this for the Braves. I’d rather see what the team can do and trade for a pitcher in July. Too much inventory – good inventory. Giants should be looking A and AA level with more numbers rather than trying to pick top AAA prospects. They are going to need more than a pitcher and outfielder from the Braves. Swanson isn’t going anywhere nor should he. He was brought up too soon and this hurt him. Feel like he is going to take off in 2 to 3 years. Braves want him to be face.
As a Braves fan, I’d pass on that package. That’s a lot to give up for 1 year of a declining MadBum and a SS who posted the same fWAR as Dansby. Will Smith is a stud, and would be great to have but not at that price. Soroka is a consensus top 35 prospect, Pache will fly up the prospect boards, and Swanson was a 1.9 fWAR SS with a cheap 4 years worth of control (vs. $15 mil for Crawford). With that being said, if there’s anyway to get Will Smith, the Braves should definitely consider it dependent on cost.
And in no way would Crawford (at the price) be an improvement over Swanson. DON’T get me wrong Crawford has been a great player, but the Braves wouldn’t be getting the 2014-2016 version of Crawford. He is older and much more expensive.
In what world does Bryce Wilson get MadBum? Also, why would the Giants want Sam Freeman in a trade? That second offer is just a bunch of spare parts, which won’t get it done
ATL would love that deal.
@ Michael Chaney: personally I don’t see Bryce Wilson as getting close to Bumgarner but honestly he does have significant question marks in SOME fans minds and that is what drives comments like these. Bumgarner has missed significant time the last two seasons and has noticeably declined in some areas. He just posted his worst walk rate and lowest strikeout ratios of his career. Others see him still as the big game horse he was for years in the Giants glory days. The truth is he is probably somewhere between the two extremes.
I’d LOVE to see him pitching off the bump in Atlanta, but I’m not sure that paying the price that the Giants would likely desire is the best course of action for the Braves organization.
Why do people constantly propose these massive blockbuster deals. Yeah you get roasted for it because you propose deals that are so complicated that they will never happen or have a chance to. It’s hard enough for fans to realize the value of one established player let alone 5.
I never said that it would get him. What I was saying was that is as far as I would go for a diminishing guy who has been injured the past 2 yrs. His diminishing skills are not even what bothers me it’s the 2 yrs of injuries. Frankly I don’t want him I would rather have Greinke. But if the Giants would take someone along the lines of Wilson that could change my mind. If he was healthy it’s another story even with diminished skills.
Lol I post these to see reactions! And it worked! Braves fans always overvalue their prospects and it was funny to see how some of them reacted. Thanks for the laugh guys.
Think god your not the Gm! U would pass? Lol
Starts with something like pache,soroka, Toussaint, and Allard. Probably throw in demeritte as well.
The general feeling is, it’s not nearly enough for the Giants and not nearly enough for the Braves.
Good luck Jansen. Regardless of the procedure, no one undergoes an elective heart procedure.
What’s described here as a “surgery” is actually a minimally invasive procedure called catheter ablation. It doesn’t even require general anesthetic. The recovery time is the period when you should avoid exercise (a few weeks, maybe more for an athlete). Jansen had this procedure before. Assuming it works this time he should be healthy long before spring training camp opens.
You are correct. They are not cracking open the chest. But anesthesia is often used. My wife works at a Cath lab and they always use anesthesia. But I understand there are some doctors that just use heavy sedation. There is a quick recovery and it usually takes a couple months to get back to 100%. It is also common to need the procedure more than once before being cured. Jansen should be good as new before spring.
I remember seeing JR House in double A, he hit one of the longest home runs I have ever seen.
JR House was the best high school QB I’ve ever seen. Watched him beat Nick Swisher’s team who had a record setting defense that year. Then he ended up playing QB at WVU some time later.
Braves need to give up some of those crazy starting pitching prospects and swoop up Diaz from the Mariners. The fit is harmonious.
Braves need pen help- padres need pitching
Yates, Stammen, Stock for Teheran and Gohara or Fried (preferably Gohara).
Braves pick up 3 pen assets 1 long term in stock, padres get a pitcher looking to rebuild value and a high upside arm in case they wind up dealing from their pitching depth or deal Gohara in a deal for an ace.
I think they might line up a little better if it is Yates and one of the corner outfielders they have for a couple of the Braves starters!
Yates and Reyes for Fried and Gohara?
I think that could work. Padres are high on cordero who seem to believe could be a 30 30 guy.
Exactly! Moving Reyes opens up a spot for Cordero! The Braves may need to add another lower level SP to make it work, but it may not be far off!
The only problem here is both are LHP and the Padres rotation is already heavily left handed. The premise I am not opposed to.
The padres seem hell bent on trading for an ace. Yes fried and Gohara are both lefties but if you’re talking about acquiring an ace lucchesi or Lauer most likely get dealt or you can use fried and/or Gohara in a trade for an ace. Depends what is being asked for and agreed upon. I’d think fried and Gohara hold more value than yates and reyes do trading for an ace from a rebuilding club
Preller and Co. already dealt Fried to the Braves, can’t see them wanting him back. Yates & Reyes for Teheran & Gohara?
If we are giving up Reyes vs stammen and stock is rather get someone like Allard than Teheran
Gohara and Allard would be better imo.
Yet another unrealistic blockbuster trade propasal. Back to reality.
Thanks for contributing nothing of value to the conversation captain negativity. Thanks for stopping by and offering that high level in depth critical thinking and analytical skill. Much appreciated.
Yeah I know it happens. But you guys that just offer nothing and take a crap on thoughts and debatable topics is just sad to see. NO reason you need to be that way. Bring positivity into the world we certainly need it.
The Braves have about $60 million available in payroll, a top farm system, and most of their roster is either locked in cheap for the next few years.
If you’re going to add to a team, you do it now before the bill becomes due like what the Cubs are seeing happening to them.
The cubs are hamstrung because they added to the team. This isn’t anything new but most teams would be better off if they just never signed a free agent for multiple yrs. if you’re gonna make a mistake, resign your own guy at least he’s the devil you know.
This false narrative you need to sign free agents is the best way to win. Sign free agents to mega deals and have them take up so much of yore payroll it forces you to sell your best players at .70 on the dollar and eventually forces you to tank and rebuild.
It’s about smart spending. The Cubs dished out long contracts to players like Heyward and Darvish that also run at the same time most of their young core starts to get more expensive and closer to free agency. The Jon Lester deal was smart because the majority of his contract happened while the Bryants, Baez, Rizzos were under control and under market value.
It’s not like teams can’t see when players will get expensive. Free agency isn’t the place to sign a core, it’s the place to add to a team like the Braves who are good, but still need a few pieces.
The Braves have a sweet spot of about 3-5 years before their current team begins to get expensive. Any deals within that range won’t hinder the ability to sign any of the current players (Acuña, Albies, Freeman, etc.) beyond their current controlled years.
sign free agents pitcher or trade for them ,its much easier to develop position player and easier to replace when they get expensive.
1.Teheran to Brewers for Domingo Santana
2. Allard to Dbacks for Greinke & 27 million $
3. Bryce Wilson, Sam Freeman, Tristan Beck & Izzy Wilson to Giants for Wil Smith & Hunter Strickland
4. Gohora to Pirates for Cervelli
5. Sign David Robertson
6. Sign Cameron Maybin
7. Trade Shane Carle to Mets for Wilmer Flores
Santana has had one good year. Just one. And Cameron Maybin..why would you want him?!?!
Can play all 3 OF spots with excellent to above average defense, late inning defense replacement, excellent runner on base paths. He’d be a great 4th OF and pinch runner. In the event Inciarte gets injured and misses time he can fill in defensively in center and hold his own, 80-90 OPS+ isnt the worst thing for a 4th OF with good defense.
You’re HORRIBLE at this. Just stop.
1. The brewers don’t want Teheran, the Braves don’t want Santana
2. If the Dbacks are paying almost 1/3 of Greinke’s contract, they’ll want more than Allard.
3. Sam Freeman is probably gonna be non-tendered.
4. Gohara needs to show he can pitch next year before anyone trades for him
6. We already have Adam Duvall, he’s the same player as Maybin, but younger and cheaper
7. Makes no sense for either team
MLBTR, would you please stop misquoting that article from AA? He only said spending big on one player, the Braves just aren’t their yet. When he said that he might have even had Machado/Harper in mind. He also said if the deal makes since, they would do it.
Prayers go out to Jansen for a successful heart surgery. Baseball aside, He has a family that still needs him.
What kind of heartless jackwagon downvoted this comment?!
Prayers? I just hope the surgeon knows their stuff
I don’t understand Bowman
One article he writes the Braves have $60 mil to spend and then every subsequent article he literally shoots down the idea of signing anyone worth any value
According to him so far Kimbrel and Grandal are out of our price range and the Braves will look to trade for a cheaper catcher option and our target relievers should be Holland and Ottavino
Additionally Pollock is likely out of our range and the cheaper Michael Brantley makes sense
I’m curious exactly where he feels we’re spending this so called $60 million he projects because his articles aren’t consistent at all to this point
At best he’s got us spending $25 mil on the three biggest needs of the team
The Braves are doing fine just staying with their plan. No one expected them to win the NLE. Austin Riley will get a look at 3B. I’m watching CF Drew Waters in their minors. Better, they are deep with minor league pitchers nearly ready.
Great job Braves and please stick with your plan.
Totally agree…the cardinals would be better off right now if they would have let the young guys play out…they had a ton of outfield depth but yet signed Fowler out of panic…now we have a situation in right field…and although I want the cardinals to make a splash this year, it would be wise for them to let some youth play…O’Neill deserves a shot in right field…instead of spending big bucks they have a for sure great defensive right fielder, capable of hitting 30 HRs and hit decent for average…OBP might be low because he Strikes out but he even improved on that last year…The cardinals have a right fielder they just need to give him a shot…so point being Braves should let the youth play out
Why not sign Britton who should be 100% back to form and then the Braves will have the Orioles back end. Oday,Brach, Britton. Go Os south
Brach is a FA
Man, I’d avoid Kimbrel like I avoid broccoli.
As a Giants fan I think if you guys dangle a couple prospects you could have Smith or Strickland (preferably Strickland).
Heck, You can have Melancon if you want to just trade us some balls, sunflower seeds, and a Hank Aaron autographed bat. He actually pitched well when he came back last year and is a proven closer.
Still saying Teheran to SD for Renfroe and Hedges. Add to bullpen from the FA market and call it an offseason.
I would accept Julio for Renfroe. I think it would take more to get Hedges with him but I wouldn’t be opposed. I think Teheran gotta pull a young RF. Santana, Renfroe whoever take your pick.
Not a bad idea. Fills two open spots.
Joe Kelley is a free agent target that could warrant closer consideration, and at a much more affordable price.
Yeah I know it happens. But you guys that just offer nothing and take a crap on thoughts and debatable topics is just sad to see. NO reason you need to be that way. Bring positivity into the world we certainly need it.
Braves not getting Kimbrel. Gee, what a shocker.
As a Braves fan, pass on Bumgarner.
Depends on what they want back. He is an ace, which is an area of need. But only 1 year of control and his injury history is questionable, so don’t overpay.
If I’m Brave brass I make a couple smaller deals, have the other teams sent money in both deals also. After all Atlanta is all about stuffing the piggy bank.
Braves will not find NL east as easy in 2019 as 2018. I expect Washington, New york Mets and Phil all to be better. Only Miami to be easy in 2019. Expect Washington to win diviison in 2019 .
If I’m the braves, I’m not looking to CK. Im looking to Andrew Miller and one of Robertson, Kelly, or Ottavino.
If the Braves are going forward with multiple young starters, some of whom have inning limits or control issues, the best they could do is have relievers that can bridge 2 or 3 innings.
The Braves signed the worst TV deal in all of baseball, with that being said the closer they have a shot to sign is Octavinno. Making a trade to Padres for Yates would also be great.
some 60 million in cap space and we are just going to not spend it? At least give us some rumors about sign contract extensions on Folty and other players. Otherwise build us into a contender please.