The Indians announced the completion of the August 31st Josh Donaldson trade today, sending right-hander Julian Merryweather to Toronto as expected.
To make room for Merryweather on the 40-man roster, Jon Berti was designated for assignment, per Sportsnet.ca’s Shi Davidi. The 28-year-old Berti got his first taste of the big leagues this season, starting four games at second base and hitting .267 for the Blue Jays in September.
Playoff contributions notwithstanding, we now know Cleveland’s return on this deal – Donaldson’s small-sample September batting line of .280/.400/.520 across 16 games was good for 0.7 rWAR and a stellar 146 OPS+. With the division locked up for most of the season, Donaldson’s acquisition was designed for the playoffs, beginning today in Houston – still, they seem to have gotten a fair imitation of the bat they were hoping for thus far.
Fancred’s Jon Heyman reported last month that Merryweather would be the PTBNL, but at the time the right-hander wasn’t healthy enough to be passed through waivers – having undergone Tommy John surgery in Spring Training. Merryweather missed the entire 2018 season, but because he was on the minor-league disabled list, he has yet to accrue any MLB service time.
The Blue Jays are banking on Merryweather being more valuable than the compensatory draft pick they would have received if they issued – and Donaldson rejected – a qualifying offer. Perhaps they were wary of Donaldson accepting, which we now know would cost them $17.9 MM for 2019, but whether their thinking was financial, evaluative, or simply in the interest of keeping third-base unoccupied for uberprospect Vlad Guerrero Jr., the return for the 2015 AL MVP now hinges on the health and continued development of Merryweather.
Before losing the 2018 season to Tommy John, the 6’4″ right-hander was 17th on Baseball America’s list of Cleveland prospects. He’s on the older side for a player yet to make his MLB debut (he’ll turn 27 on October 14th), but he pitched well enough in AA as a 25-year-old to turn some heads, and he has an arsenal that could play up to the level of a mid-rotation starter, per Eric Longenhagen of Fangraphs. Merryweather may end up in the bullpen, but remember, a rising tide lifts all boats, and the past few Octobers have done nothing if not raise the value of tweener bullpen arms like Merryweather.
It’s not a flashy return, but six to seven years of a control for a near Major League-ready arm is nothing to scoff at. There’s health and development that need to break in Merryweather’s favor, but a supplemental draft pick was no less risky and ultimately, Toronto adds a controllable arm in exchange for an injured player on his way out of town. That undersells Donaldson’s impact in Toronto (as well as his abilities on the field), not to mention what they might have netted if they’d moved him last offseason – but if you squint hard enough, Merryweather’s upside at least hints at the possibility that Donaldson’s free agency isn’t a total loss.
What a shocker, didn’t see this coming at all.
Truly surprised by this one! This came out of nowhere!
Old news
Should have designated Russell Martin or Luke Maile but ok.
I agree with R.Martin but I guess because of the remaining money on his contract he wasn’t dfa’d or they kept him because of him being a clubhouse leader.
Stop being silly! They can’t DFA a player who is owed $20M. He would clear waivers, and be signed to a team for minimum with the Jays on the hook for the rest. That is just plain dumb.
Beats sitting on someone that isn’t cutting it anymore?
Not recommending this for Martin but it’s not necessarily a dumb strategy.
Upgrade the 25man roster at any cost can pay off, even if it means cutting loose a Sandoval sized investment!
Interesting Toronto valued this over a compensatory pick. Must have calculated that a) Donaldson wasn’t worth making a QO, or b) he wouldn’t get a $50+M contract in free agency.
They also saved $3mm in the trade
And it’s a crapshoot with the picks and could only hope they’d develop into a top 20 prospect.
Not to mention that (as the article states) he is nearly major-league ready. Wouldn’t get that in the draft.
WAT NOOOOO WHY NOT VLAD!!!!!111
Shapiro/Atkins gave Cleveland one last kiss, hoping they remember it once these guys are fired and sent packing to the Mets.
I don’t know if there is any positive spin on the Donaldson to Indians deal. As far I as I am concerned Atkins and Shapiro botched it from day one.
I and others were screaming for him to be traded last year when the Jays were going nowhere. Now they get a last minute old TJ guy whose upside is a setup guy in the bullpen.
So what did this team end up acquiring from Donaldson, Bautista and Encarnacion? Almost nothing.
It is long overdue to fire Atkins and Shapiro.
Nate Pearson for the Edwin comp pick.
To be fair, they did offer Edwin more to stay in Toronto than he received from CLeveland. You can’t really blame the Jays for that.
I like Nate Pearson, but it is still a terrible return for EE.
Lmao. Ok this actually just made me spit out my beer. Good lord you know nothing.
Yes, blame the Jays front office for offering EE the most money.
Tell the whole story Paul. When EE refused their first offer, Shapiro rather than be profeessional and patient, paniced and signed Morales to a stupid deal which led further to the Jays decline. Yeesh.
Amateur hour in the Jays front office.
Panic though?
Coincidence that Gurriel was signed when Morales was signed? Willing to see how this one plays out based on how Gurriel looks so far.
Pitching fell apart and having EE wouldn’t have made a difference there.
Trading Donaldson at that time would have been smart in hindsight, but I swear the offers seemed like lowball offers at the time.
Misreading the market before 2017 was bad but they weren’t the only ones. And going for it without having any depth ready in case of injury was really bad and no excuse really. Trade chips held too long. But I don’t have any inside rumour insights about what was offered so I can only assume that rolling the dice on healthy Stroman/Sanchez seemed worth a shot.
I watched this up close for years in Cleveland. These guys will generally do things that will drive you insane – particularly when signing free agents. Shaptkins has never had a decent FA signing, ever. However, they do trade ok about 50% of the time when rebuilding.
Jays need to move on fast, or will be worse than Baltimore in 2 years.
Imagine how bad a shape they’d be in if Justin Masterson accepted the longterm deal a few years back.
I remember being devastated when Masterson didn’t re-sign long term. Thankfully, he didn’t.
The Kerry Wood and Nick Swisher signings were particular crowning achievements.
In Shapiro’s last year, they installed a baserunning game at the stadium where kids could “race” virtually against their favorite Indian player. I decided as a 40-something, totally out-of-shape guy to race against Nick Swisher. After having too many beers, I ran 90 feet against the actual baserunning time of Swisher. Beat him by 0.6 of a second and asked the Indians employee, “Really?” They said, “Yeah, Swisher sucks. We all hate him. The guy is a total moron if yoy meet him”.
That was Shapiro’s biggest signing ever. LOL
I would add signing Bourne as well. Awful.
Shapiro did a couple of things right. Signing Roberto Alomar was brilliant and so was signing Terry Francona. Otherwise Shapiro is a good farm systems guy, not a GM or President type capable of taking a team over the top.
Signing of Roberto Alomar was under John Hart, not Shapiro.
Trading him right before his collapse was Shapiro though
I saw Shapiro interviewed and he claimed it was his idea that the Indians signed Alomar even though ithe boss was John Hart.
In 1998, Shapiro was on the Cleveland leadership team as the Director of player development. He was promoted to Asst GM in 1999. Alomar was signed Nov 1998.
Out of curiosity I looked it up. In doing so I found this fascinating read on an Indians blog
letsgotribe.com/2018/9/10/17839784/mark-shapiro-re…
Seems as though they thought his best signings were the 1 year deal to Juan Gonzalez in 2001, the Casey Blake signing in 2002 and the Rafael Betancourt deal in 2003. Overall, and as that already indicates, they seemed to have trashed his FA deals on the whole.
Yet when it comes to trades, wow what a difference. They count 35 bWAR dealt away, and an amazing 210 bWAR (and counting) received back in those moves – including the entire current rotation outside of Shane Bieber.
In the accompanying poll, most (47%) gave him a B, with C (24%) and A (17%) being the other top choices
jimmertee,
He may have said that, but I honestly doubt it is true. The signing of big names to deals is much more a Hart thing (see the 90s. And that is when Alomar was a mega star and signed by the Indians,) where if you read the link I just provided you’ll see how unlike Shaprio the deal actually appears (his targets were generally cheap lesser knowns or bounce backs, and almost always realy bad)
Shapiro fleeced the Jays bigitme in the Aviles/Gomes for Esmil Rogers deal, so I can see where some of the +ive war comes from. Shapiro can draft and scout young talent very well including the current rotation as kids.
I’m not doubting you. As we have seen anything is possible with Shapiro including 2 years of lying through his teeth [ôr incompentence]¸about the Jays being `competative.
And it is actually possible Shapiro was the driving force as well. It just seems so unlikely based off what I remember of the 1990s.
Looking at merely the 95-99 rosters, you can probably tell what I mean as far as targeting the big names in signings and trades – Dave Winfield, Julio Franco, Eddie Murray, Kevin Seitzer, Orel Hershiser, Dennis Martinez, Jack McDowell, Kent Mercker, Paul Assenmacher, Tony Fernandez, Matt Williams, Marquis Grissom, David Justice, Kevin Mitchell, Pat Borders, Michael Jackson, Travis Fryman, Mark Whiten, Shawon Dunston, Cecil Fielder, Dwight Gooden, Doug Jones, Harold Baines, Mark Langston, Tom Candiotti and more. Plus many of the now lesser knowns were still guys with popular names around that specific time, I do believe. (It almost seems like he filled out the clubs complimentary pieces by reading articles to find out who everyone was talking about)
Roberto Alomar was also signed during that 95-99 period, and truthfully he fits right in. This especially seems the case considering how many early 90s Blue Jays I now realize made Cleveland rosters in the late 90s.
I’m sure it had nothing to do with his brothers Sandy…
That is probably based upon the Colon to the Expos deal they absolutely lucked out in. Sizemore became a very good player, Cliff Lee was good then bombed and then found himself again. But the key to the deal was Brandon Phillips, who couldn’t break through in Cleveland and was eventually dealt for a fungo bat. So going back to the original comments on. Eric Wedge, how does a talent like Phillips not stick out and find a way into the lineup? Or did Wedgie have that much bias against certain players he could see the talent?
Yeah don’t lie about being competitive, just tell fans to stay home for a few years and they’ll let them know when to come back and spend some $…SMH
Yes Polish, the Colon trade did bring a chunk of his bWAR gains. I do not think it was luck though, as I believe they fought to ensure the then lesser known prospects were included. And that trade only accounts for a slice of that bWAR gain (Lee was worth 16.2, Sizemore 27.7 – yet he gained 210 total)
That link also highlights other great trades like Chuck Finley to get Coco Crisp, Einar Diaz to get Travis Hafner, Ben Broussard to get Shin-Soo Choo, CC Sabathia to get Michael Brantley, Casey Blake to get Carlos Santana, Cliff Lee to receive Carlos Carrasco, Jake Westbrook to receive Corey Kluber, Shin-Soo Choo to get Trevor Bauer and Brian Shaw, and Vinnie Pestano to get Mike Clevinger. And there were many more smaller gains in trades as well. He and the front office team around Shapiro at that time were at least extremely successful at trading low control guys for future producers they had identified.
As far as Roberto Alomar, Sandy being there likely helped Roberto’s decision to go to Cleveland quite a bit. But he seems such a Hart target from the start even if Sandy wasn’t around. As can see above, Hart seemed to prefer plugging holes with big flashy names. Shapiro almost never aquired names unless they were buy low, bounce back types. There are a few exceptions (Kerry Wood, which failed. Michael Bourne, which failed. Nick Swisher, which failed) but not that many.
I’m willing to wait out for the core he left in Cleveland. They’re already well on their way there with the farm that’s coming up.
They screwed up the Donaldson deal in hindsight, but what were they supposed to get back for EE and Bautista? Trade them in the middle of their contention window? Then people would be screaming at them for trading them and they’d be hated more than they are now by the casuals.
Too many fantasy GM geniuses that live their lives with a crystal ball and have perfect vision (hindsight)…
Since you asked JD, that contention window was a load of baloney. As these MLBTR blog pages will tell, in Dec 2016 and spring training 2017, I was calling for a dismantling of the Jays and trading EE and Bautista then.
The rotation was done back then. We have had 2 years of non-compete that was accurately predicted. This rebuild all could have started in Dec 2016. No hindsight needed. Imagine the assets the Jays could have picked up. And the Jays would be 2 years ahead of where they are now.
All that was needed is better professional scouting and a true assessment of the quality of the team back then. Please no one give me they were going to try to win, or they [Shapiro/Atkins] were ordered by the board to try to win. They weere never going to compete in 2017 and it is up to the basball people to tell the mgmt types that and to start the rebuild. #Scouteyes
EE wasn’t on the Jays in spring training 2017 or under contract after 2016.
Bautista returned to the Jays on a 1 year deal. Why on earth would they sign him and then trade him before he played a game.
Evidently, you were not calling for them to be traded then. #LogicBrain
Wow JDGoat….If you don’t want people to “troll” you, or comment negatively, maybe you should take your own advice. Glass house much?
Now, I do agree with you about EE and Jose. Can’t trade free agents.
May 2017 the decision should have been made to deal Donaldson at the 2017 trade deadline, along with others.
Shapiro did say (last off-season I believe) that he wanted to start the rebuild when he arrived but he didn’t think fans would accept it and so he tried to keep them competitive without ruining the future
Sorry for the confusion, I stand corrected, I have my dates wrong. it wasn’t Dec 2016 it was the trade deadline 2016 when I called EE and Bautista to be traded. I called for Donaldson to be traded in DEc 2016 and Spring training 2017. I correctly called the Jays to early exit from the playoffs and going no where in the 2016 playoffs. My exact words were, ” this team is not a championship team”
I also called tthem to sell off other assets in DEc 2016.
It’s all wrtitten in here and on twitter.
Brain for dates gettin a little foggy.
Brain for scouting still excellent. #scoutseyes
You aren’t a scout and never have been. And expecting a new president and GM to trade the two fan favourites superstars at the deadline in 2016 is the most absurd use of hindsight I’ve ever read. If you think Shapiro and Atkins are hated now I’m sure trading those two the fans would have loved them.
I would have traded Jose Fernandez the day before he died #scouteyes
The day before Tony C got a ball in the eye socket ending his career I actually have it on record I said to trade him #scoutseyes
Please cite the example of GMs who blow teams up at the deadline in a year way they’re in contention I’ll wait.
Jimmertee of course you and your scouteyes would call for a deadline selloff and rebuild when they were playing for a pennant. Most baseball people agree that anything can happen in the playoffs. Look at the Royals in 2014 and 15. The Yankees last year and the Jays in 2016. Yeah LOL you call for a deadline selloff the year they came the closest to the World Series since the early 90’s (American League Championship Series).
I don’t know who you are trying to impress with your nonsense but try supporting your team when they are fighting for a pennant and you might start to understand baseball.
Iverbure, you forgot tomorrow’s prediction.
In 2020 Vlad jr and Bichette will only have 5 years of control remaining. Trade them now while their value is sky high! We can get a couple of top 20 prospects for sure & restock the farm! #scouteyes
#Nostradumbass
I wouldn’t trade Vlad Jr for anything. Bichette is a different story. As Goat knows, years ago I called for trading Bichette in a package for pitching becuase the Jays farm system is so thin when it comes to pitching.
I am sticking to my original scouting call of Bichette. He will make the big leagues and play a while there, but he won’t be anything special like Vlad jr. Below average major leaguer. Which is still good.
More like Jeremiah or Isaiah or Daniel.
jimmer:
100% remember you calling the Jays as not a championship team and predicting doom and gloom ever since.
-I will give you credit for Estrada, he has been declining, but you’d have to admit that he trucked it out for at least a full season longer than you’ve been predicting? Back didn’t turn to putty. Gave the team some innings better than Biagini would have!
-I’d have to call you out for your blurry scout vision on J.A. Happ. Pretty sure he’s good and didn’t lose it with the 2017 velocity drop.. Your boy Cashman must agree.
-I’d give you similar credit for Sanchez, he might be done, but he too has trucked it out for longer than you had predicted.
-Can’t recall you worrying about Stroman? I’ll give you major credit for your view on the pitching depth in the system in general. They got lucky in 2016 with Liriano’s performance, but you eventually nailed it with the call about no rotation depth if anyone goes down. Things got really ugly once the rotation injuries inevitably occured.
-Calling to trade prospects for pitching depth was suggested, and i can’t say I disagree that it would have been a good call, but to target and value pitching is such a crapshoot that I don’t know which side of that debate I’d truly land on.
As for predictions during the playoff runs, did you think they’d get to ALCS 2016? Pretty sure the ALDS victory that season had to have surprised you? Do you think they might have made the World Series had Devon Travis been able to stay healthy for another week or two that year? He was rolling and starting to become a real catalyst for the offense at that time.
And what about the season before, do you think they might have made the World Series had Brett Cecil been able to stay healthy for another week or two that year? They really were neck and neck with KC and having their top bullpen lefty might have turned the tides enough?
Big what ifs that should have had some organizational depth in place to not matter, so my point is really pointless. There are a lot of moving parts with these predictions, so it can be real easy to twist things to make yourself seem like Nostradamus when your blurry memory thinks back on it. Context is key! Admire your boldness with these predictions, but try to give these guys some benefit of doubt for a bigger plan and working inside a super competitive marketplace! You just might be surprised by how some of these kids turn out!
Interested to hear what you think of the organizational pitching depth after this season’s auditions for a few arms. Some of these arms and bats played better than expected and it’s quite exciting from my point of view. Cheers.
Holy smoly, you’re reading. Thanks for the note. I missed on Happ bigtime. Glad to see I did too, I hope he bounces back against the redsox. Yanks for the World series this year.
I missed on Maile too, don;’t know where his performance this year came from. I still think he doesn’t belong in the majors, which leads me to believe he found a workout regimen that corrected his in ability to hit above .200. Hmmmm…
I like Paulino and Giles from Houston for Osuna. The 3rd piece the Jays got is not much of a prospect.
Since you asked, during the playoff run in 2016, I called the Cubs winning the World Series. and put it up on twitter, In 2015 early in the playoffs, I had an argument with a friend of mine on FB. He was hardcore Jays[which I am too], at the time I said the Royals would take the World Series.
To answer another question you posed, I have been calling Stroman a #3 from day 1 of his career[jhe can look like a #2 but then he blows up]. He could an elite closer. He has a lot of tools but doesn’t have the personality to be a consistent #1 starter. I am not sure it was a physcial thing that bothered him this year as much as the mental and emotional part of the game. He belongs as a closer. As pointed out previously, much of the Jays notices on player’s injuries can be PR BS.
Steve Simmons in the sun this weekend had a note on David Sterns, the GM of the Brewers. He took over the same time as Shapiro took over the Jays. It took sterns 2 years to build his team into what it is today and look what SHapiro did in 2 years. Sterns acquires elite like Yelich, Cain plus 6 other new starting position players since he started, and Shapiro acquires well among others Diaz, Drury, Solarte, Hernandez, Grichuk, Mckinney Morales and Giles. Giles is elite, the others, they are okay but the Jays can’t win with a bunch of these guys.
It’s obvious to me that Shapiro has mandated a policy for Atkins and others to follow about acquiring mostly position players and pitching psopects and filling in strarting pitching holes with crap off the waiver wire or minor leagues.
Once the Jays get an elite GM that can turn a MLB level club around in 2 years, then the doom and gloom from me will stop. I see at least 3 more years of “building” for this Jays club using Shapiro’s methodology.
The only elite arm I see in the Jays minor leagues in Pearson. Once he heals up, I think he can be very good. Gaviglio is a #4, Sean Reid Foley has a great arm but hasn’t a clue where the ball is going once it leaves his hand,. Sometimes he is on but often is not. If he can find his control he’ll be a #2, but I suspect that ain;’t happening too much so he is a #4. Pannone has me confused. I see him as a reliever but he has done very well as a starter. Keep in mind he is a fringe starter because of the velocity and is coming off of a PED boost. If he looses even 1 MPH off that fastball they’ll hit him hard.
Petricka and Leiter jr don;t belong in the big leagues.
I love Mayza, always have. It often takes big lefties a few extra years to find control. He’s a keeper. Fernandez has great stuff but he doesn;t know where the ball is going once it leaves his hand either, so becuase he is a lefty I give him 1 more year to find control. He’s likely be a keeper too.
The Jays have a few interesting starters in AA. I haven’t seen enough of them to comment individually, but as a group at elast one will liekly show himself on the MLB roster this year. That’s not the best scouting breakdown, lol, but that’s all I’ve got for now on them, Cheers back.
It wasn’t lastly, I lied….
Just gotta call out that the Jays core, or even their potential core is not even close to what those Astros were bringing to the table offensively. So my comparison isn’t’ fair either. Just pointing out that sometimes the pitching is the last thing to fall in line. Building up an offense with cheap talent all around is clearly the blueprint that seems to be slowly in motion!
Agreed. Jays don’t have a core capable of championship quality.They have pleanty of good pieces but nothing that will inspire a championship soon.
I think one of Shapiro best moves in Clevleand was hiring Tito. I hope Shapiro does as well with his hire in TO.
As for Borucki, he can be a solid #2 but he has to gain 20lbs of muscle. He is still a skinny minor league kid. It will take him 2 years to get there. Having said that, I hear he is moving to toronto, has swallowed the Jays sports science kool-aid and will be changing his work out regimen this winter.
The Jays weren’t ever going to be in contention this past season in the same division as Boston and New York. That was obvious. They should have started the rebuild last offseason. #FireShapkins
Thanks Charles. Right on. Especailly in the light of what the GM sterns did in Milwaukee in 2 years, the same 2 years that Shapiro and Atkins had to work with.
I missed all this internet ‘screaming’ for a trade that you say happened last offseason. What I did see was lots of the usual ‘sign a mega-contract with ;this 30+ year old or Rogers is cheap’ stuff that we see every offseason in Toronto’s alleged ‘fanbase’. Far from botching it, the FO played it well. They are stuck with the junk from the mess that Anthopoulos created – the Tulo joke contract, the Martin contract, the barrel bottom farm that he left – and dealt that hand they tried to catch lightning in a bottle with one more winning season. It didn’t work of course. All of the expensive junk that Alex stuck them with – Tulo the joke, DL Donaldson, 2nd string catcher Martin – either didn’t perform at all or showed their decline. Stroman and Sanchez joined their Alex bros. on the DL. And nothing to call up from the junk farm system that Alex built. They made good trades for guys like Grichuk and Diaz, guys who aren’t stars but better than what the empty farm had.
The real “fanbase” know the Jays waited a year too late to begin the process.
Yah. Good to see some sense here.
I don’t think Donaldson is entirely innocent in this either. Pretty fishy that he goes on the DL right before Toronto series and comes off right after. Who knows what happened.
Management can hardly be faulted for not trading him last winter. Are they supposed to know that he would only play 28 games? As for what did they get for JD, JB and EE…. JD got a pitcher who can at least contribute for 6 to 7 years in some way. They brought back Jose by popular demand, handing him $18M to crater and they offered EE $100M to return and he said no. Such is his right, and the right of management to move on and sign Morales.
Since taking over the team, the farm has gone from bottom 10 to top 10 farm system, that is pretty damn good. They do not need to fired at all.
Stop being silly and give them a chance.
It took Cashman and Dombrowski 2 years to respectively rebuild the Yankees and Bosox to where they are now. Shapiro and Atkins are already into non competing 2 years and it is at least 3 more years to go. That’s 5 years of rebuild in case you can’t count.
Who cares if they have a great farm system.
The goal and only goal is to win at the Major League level now, not in 3 years. Yeesh.
Actually they acquired NOTHING of any consequence except scrubs… nothing for EE, and bit players for Donaldson, Happ, Liriano, etc… Meanwhile look what Cashman acquired when he rebuilt the Yankees (Sanchez, Tanaka, Andujar and Severino were international transfers; Stanton, Gray, Hicks, Green, Gregorius, Gleyber Torres, Adams, Sheffield, etc came in trades, and Judge, Bird, Gardner, Betsnces and Montgomery were all drafted. Or look at Milwaukee if you want a “small market” team comparison (2 year turnaround). The Jays’ ownership has shown a willingness to spend freely on a winning team… which the current mess is not. And Shapkins could have created a strong core of players if they handled the rebuild last offseason and generated something of value from Donaldson, Happ, Estrada, Smoak, Liriano, etc. Instead, we get scrubs. #FireShapkins
Actually they acquired NOTHING of any consequence except scrubs… nothing for EE, and bit players for Donaldson, Happ, Liriano, etc… Meanwhile look what Cashman acquired when he rebuilt the Yankees (Sanchez, Tanaka, Andujar and Severino were international transfers; Stanton, Gray, Hicks, Green, Gregorius, Gleyber Torres, Adams, Sheffield, etc came in trades, and Judge, Bird, Gardner, Betances and Montgomery were all drafted. Or look at Milwaukee if you want a “small market” team comparison (2 year turnaround). The Jays’ ownership has shown a willingness to spend freely on a winning team… which the current mess is not. And Shapkins could have created a strong core of players if they’d handled the rebuild last offseason and generated something of value from Donaldson, Happ, Estrada, Smoak, Liriano, etc. Instead, we get scrubs. #FireShapkins
Are Jays fans blind to what What Shatkins is building here? Do any of you realize AA is the reason the Jays are in this position right now? Can’t wait to see the comments 2 years from now when the Jays are back in contention.
I can’t see a GM in the game that would’ve had them in a better position right now. You’re correct, the team AA built was always bound to end up like this. The only things they really bungled was the Morales contract and in hindsight trading JD too late.
I think Morales and Guriel Jr were a package. The Morales deal looks much better in that context.
That’s true. It also looks better since he did have a nice bounce back at the plate as well this year.
jayssask I’m with you on that! Same agency and signed with the same team either on the same day or days apart. Definitely points to a package deal!
Bungled EE free agency, could have torn the team apart last offseason and realised value for Donaldson, Happ, Liriano, Estrada, Smoak, etc but misjudged about their ability to compete… by about 35 wins. Morales/Pearce were incapable of replacing EE, but Shapkins pulled the trigger even before the final nail in the EE coffin.
AA left after 2015. This mess is on Shapkins who have called the shots on the 2015/16, 2016/17, and now the 2017/18 teams. Three seasons. It only took Cashman two seasons to completely tear down and rebuild the Yankees. You can’t guess what AA would have done in those three seasons where Shapkins have failed. No playoff series wins.
How about Milwaukee GM David Stearns who was hired at the exact same time as Shapiro, which makes this his second full season on the job? The team he took over wasn’t in appreciably better shape than the pre-rebuild Astros or Cubs when Jeff Luhnow and Theo Epstein, respectively, were hired in late 2011. The Brewers moved out 25 players beginning in July of 2015 and ending with the 2016-17 offseason. Almost the entire 40 man roster turned over; Jimmy Nelson and Ryan Braun remain as the only players who were on the Opening Day roster in 2015. Who knows what AA would have done if he’d stayed as GM and been given autonomy to make all roster related decisions – unfortunately something that never would have happened under control freak Shapiro.
You do realize that the Yankees and Red Sox are in that division, and that Tampa has already torn it down and reloaded their minor leagues, right?
Toronto will be very lucky to be better than Baltimore in 2 years, and a major success to be ahead of Tampa in 3rd place.
I liked Gillick at a GM for Tor, didn’t like Gord Ash, liked AA, totally depise Shaprio/Atkins. We are for years more of this crap.
Thank God for Cashman and the Yankees. It took him 2 years to rebuild, not 5 years.
The Jays need an elite Pres/GM..
In 2 years the Jays might be very good., SHapiro is a good farm systems guy and he will have a full barn of higher end prospects that are more ready than now. Only lack of pitching is hilding them back. There are very few quality pitching prospects ready for next year in the Jays system right now.
But unless there is a BlueJays mgmt mindset change to compete against the Yankees and Bosoxbig boys, Jays won’t win much before 3 more years out.
Of course Shapiro would look like a good farm system guy when he has Cherington helping to build that farm. Cherington is right there with Preller and you with their #scouteyes
AA did nothing until the last year. Atkins and Shapiro took this team from bottom 10 to top 10 in the minor leagues. I like what they are doing here.
Who drafted Vlad Jr, Bichette, etc? Shapkins? Not.
Jays on the correct path. A lot of arguing on here about irrelevant, stupid hindsight. Farm system is solid, good trades, solid FA signings which have been dealt for minor league depth. Real issue is what to make of Sanchez and Stroman, two sizeable egos whose performance has been a massive disappointment. That is Shapiro and Atkins fault?
Well said. Definitely need to plan for Sanchez and Stroman injuries going forward. Keep hoping the minors depth can develop and that the pitching depth that gets brought in this offseason can have some flexibility if not durability!
AA was lucky to even be in the playoffs. How many position players did he draft that made a impact for the jays. Kevin Pillar and who else? Pillar was like 32 round pick so they must have really liked him.
They got lucky that Bautista and Edwin developed into two of the most feared hitters in baseball. I mean even AA didn’t like Edwin that much they did lose him on waivers.
Awful trades with the marlins and Mets in a year where they failed in comical fashion. Trade with the marlins lead to having to take on Tulo’s awful deal.
With all that said I wish AA had stayed, because they’d be in the same position and the fans turning on him would have been comical
That last point you made is interesting. Perhaps AA knew the outcome of events would result in this and got out while the going was good.
We had a fun couple of years. There were botched trades and signings, yes. Man, I would have loved it if AA pulled the draft trigger on Sale instead of Deck McGuire (hindsight).
The future is bright. It’s gonna be fun. We are fine with who we have in the FO. Perhaps someday the dreaded name mash up of Shatkins will be revered in the same fashion as AA, and their replacements will be the ones getting Shat on.
Oh, and who better (apart from the Clevelands) than to know the player that is Julian Merryweather than our current FO? Many comments above have noted how great Shaprio is with farm systems. Let’s consider that for a moment.
Remember the Jays were 50-51 when they pulled the trigger on Tulo. 2015 could have been the start of a rebuild if they chose to do so. In hindsight, they gave it one last shot and made it to the ALCS two years in a row.
We’ll never know. Now we hope to make the best of what the team has and hope to have.
35 games back and 48 losses on the road this past season and you’re still dissing AA? Wow. This player won’t be ready to pitch in AAA until 2019-2020 as he recovers from Tommy John surgery. By then he’ll be 29 years old, and Cleveland will have been to the playoffs at least one more time than the Boo Jays. #FireShapkins