12:03pm: GM Ross Atkins announced in a joint press conference with Gibbons that the latter will not return to his position.
9:06am: The Blue Jays will announce today that they will not retain manager John Gibbons for the 2019 season, according to Steve Phillips of MLB Network Radio (via Twitter). As Shi Davidi of Sportsnet.ca explains in reporting the same, this news represents a formal acknowledgement of an outcome that was more or less already decided.
Gibbons, 56, has run the dugout for the past six seasons in his second stint with the organization. He originally took over the team in the middle of the 2004 season but was let go in the midst of a disappointing 2008 campaign. After a few years in the Royals and Padres organizations, Gibbons returned for the 2013 season after the Jays allowed John Farrell to move to the division-rival Red Sox.
Most recently, Gibbons signed an extension that included a guarantee for the 2019 campaign. Accordingly, he’ll be paid under that deal regardless of where he ends up. As Davidi writes, Gibbons says he’d prefer to continue managing. Whether that’ll come to pass in the near term isn’t clear, but it seems to suggest that he’ll continue to look for opportunities on major or minor-league staffs.
In his return effort with Toronto, Gibbons guided the club to memorable campaigns in 2015 and 2016, including an AL East title in the first of those years. While the Jays were unable to break through to the World Series, suffering consecutive ALCS defeats, the period represented a return to prominence for what had been a dormant organization.
Things have turned south since, of course, though it’s tough to lay the malaise at the feet of Gibbons. In the aggregate, he carries a 791-787 record as the Blue Jays manager. As Davidi notes, that places Gibbon second only to the legendary Cito Gaston in games managed and wins in franchise history.
Manager is always the scapegoat. Hard to blame Gibbons with the lack of overall talent he was given. Can’t expect to compete in the AL East against teams like BOS and NYY with the roster they had.
Scapegoat for what? This isn’t new news. Jays are in a rebuild and Gibby admitted a while back he’d rather not manage during a rebuild. If the Jays were truly unhappy with him hey wouldn’t have let him finish the season a la Texas Rangers.
He was given a lot of talent in 15-16 and was 11 wins under pythagorean for those two seasons. Maybe he just wasn’t a good manager.
That’s your case against him? He fell short of Pythagorean?
Did you watch his teams play?
Those teams really didn’t have much talent at all. Pythagorean Data is not a measure of talent. The Blue Jays had horrible pitching through Gibbons entire tenure.
That’s not true. In 2016 they had the best rotation in the AL
He was the most unemotional intalented stupid dumb coach it’s about time they get someone new
A lots wrong with what you said but “unemotional”? This is the manager that probably stood up for his players the most in the majors and routinely blew a gasket doing it. That’s not really unemotional
kimjongun2.0 is right. And people only liked Gibbons because he comes off as friendly and likable. Well that’s not enough in the business of winning.
“He was the most unemotional intalented stupid dumb coach it’s about time they get someone new”
Doesn’t matter…….
Shapiro runs the team. Manager carries out instructions.
And he also brought both of those teams to the ALCS. Results definitely outweigh a pythag record
Yeah I think what I’m getting at here is that a lot of people working with the data seem to have actually WATCHED little to nothing of what they’re talking about.
Watch teh gaeymez!!1!
And my teacher said one day I’d use the pythagorean theorem. Hmmph.
Yea, seems obvious this new crappy mgmt regime would blame Gibby for all the injuries to overpaid washes like Tulo, contract turmoil with Donaldson and the continued use of bad turf at Rogers Centre. No way Shapiro or Adkins had ANYTHING to do with it. I hope Shapiro goes to the Mets…he’s worn out his welcome in Toronto. #BringBackAnthopolous
They need a new Ballpark.
Gotta disagree on that new ballpark idea. Maybe someone else has a stat backed idea on it.
The Tulo contract came from the previous administration.
Shapiro had nothing to do with Tulowitzki. Your beloved Anthopolous is the one to blame for that albatross, as well as Martin.
At least Martin is only under contract through 2019, then you get some relief. Unfortunately I think Tulo is through 2020.
AA put them in the bad situation they’re in…
They’re not in a bad situation. When AA made those trades that won the AL East, in 2015, fans took note that this is a team willing to pay top dollar for the on field product, and started showing up in record numbers.
Haven’t stopped, either. Even in this losing year, the Blue Jays have solid attendance numbers, with 29,000/home game, and good ratings across Canada, generating TV revenue comparable to the Angels’ or Mariners.
Which means that they can release Tulo and write off the $48M they owe him over the next three years, pay Martin $20M to be their backup catcher next year, and still have more money to spend than most of their competitors.
It also means that they can do a Yankee-style rebuild, where they have a competitive team on the field while doing a mid-season selloff next year, and a winning product on the field by 2020.
Let’s first correct the notion that the team was willing to pay top dollar, because ownership held a self-imposed payroll cap year in and year out. Willing to pay top dollar means by any means necessary, including money spent beyond the threshold. They didn’t. They just wanted to spend “enough”.
As for the Tulo and Martin deals…well, Tulo being the trade for Jose Reyes was needed for that season. When a deal goes south and your job is on the line you tend to make more deals to get out of the hole. Tulo got the Jays out of that hole. Without that trade I sincerely doubt the Blue Jays make the playoffs. That’s how much of a detriment Reyes was.
I still maintain Martin wasn’t getting more than $70 for 5 from any other team. Jays overspent on a position they didn’t need to address at the time (Navarro was the catcher). Was Martin better? Sure. But when you have 2 or 3 needs at different positions and you overpay for a guy playing in a spot you do not need, that’s a problem. It was evident by the 50-51 record leading up to the Tulo trade.
This post is really about Gibbons. His contract ran through 2019 and I think the team should have let him stay for another year.
You haven’t addressed the main point of my post: the David Price, Tulo and Martin deals were good PR moves, which lead to a financial windfall for the Blue Jays.
We know that the players didn’t work out. That’s not the point.
As for the notion that the Blue Jays didn’t have to give Martin that much money, the contract was right in line with the Brian McCann one. And they were two evenly matched players at the time. So now you’re accusing Brian Cashman of incompetence too?
Who’s competent then? Someone who’s decisions always lead to the perfect results? Who would that be?
stansfield – you never mentioned David Price. As for good PR, I’d call the Tulo and Price moves as a last ditch effort to run down New York in the division in AA’s final year, and it worked.
Yes the Jays didn’t have to give Martin that contract. They had other needs at the time and they didn’t address it, and those needs were exposed. They were fortunate to have Estrada and Colabello come up huge for them, among others.
McCann was 29 turning 30 when he was offered his contract at $85 for 5. Martin was turning 32 when landing his 5-year deal. Yankees at the time needed an impact catcher. Jays did not. So no, not going to call Cashman incompetent. Plus, prior to 2014 McCann was the better all-around catcher. Martin had a bounce-back season in 2014.
Since you pointed out the word “incompetence”, ask yourself a simple question; would you spend a ton of money on a player filling a position you do not need?
Agreed. Bad signings and bad injuries is what doomed the Blue Jays. However, trading for Troy Tulowinski looks back in hindsight. And backloading Russell Martin’s contract was meh.
Management isn’t blaming Gibby. They simply don’t see a reason to build a team under Gibby’s watch. Exactly what happen in New York when they dumped Girradi.
AA made bad moves (you reference Tulo, ironically).
Current management have made some bad moves.
Maybe. Just maybe…..both can do good and bad things and maaaaaaybe it’s not as $h!t simple as “Atkins bad, AA good, durrrrr”.
Maybe?
This is a mistake by the Front Office. Gibbons has shown that he can manage both championship calibre and rebuilding teams, while embracing modern techniques. This is unfortunate news for Jays fans.
Gibbons himself said he wasn’t really interested in managing a rebuilding team.
Remember when Terry Francona was fired? That too was a stupid decision.
Who’s gonna be the replacement? Manny Acta or Showalter?
I can’t see Acta getting another shot… I mean a career .418 winning percentage and never once had a winning record in 6 seasons as a manager. Showalter makes sense to me though. Knows the AL East well.
I’m only presenting Acta’s name as he was part of the Clevelands organization when the Jay’s FO was in Cleveland
Eric Wedge was a name thrown around when shapiro was first hired. Joe Girardi also knows the east well and did a good job with some terrible marlins teams
In fairness to Manny Acta I wouldn’t say many of the teams he managed failed to live up to lofty expectations.
John Farrell…but I wouldn’t hire him
How ironic would that be. To see the Blue Jays constantly flip back and forth between Gibby and Farrell.
I like Gibbons! That encounter with Ted Lilly was remarkable…
I’ve watched a lot of baseball. Some previous Jays managers (Gaston, Tosca, Johnson, Fergosi) would have me scratching my head and yelling at the TV. Some current fans don’t remember them as Gibby has been around for the past 6 years now.
Gibbons didn’t always make moves that would work out, but percentages are going to mean that will happen. However, the moves he made always made sense. Cito on the other hand was terrible in game. Couldn’t manage a bullpen, etc, but people are quick to say Cito was a better manager than Gibby. It just goes to show the team you are given ultimately dictates how people judge your managing ability.
He should get another chance. An over .500 winning percentage as a manager for nearly 10 years on a team that was usually mediocre tells you something.
#GibbyTheBest
Cito did pretty good I thought. Two world series rings
Those teams were on cruise control. Cito was pretty much managed by the players.
Cito was terrible his second time around
Cito was very overrated. Can’t manage in game. Those 2 World Series rings were won by the players who, by the way, were the highest payed team in MLB at that time. His second go around with the Jays showed this.
The manager after Gibby’s first tenure improved the team significantly upon taking over the role. Who was that manager? Cito Gaston. Let’s not gloss over that fact. And yes, it’s a fact.
paid*
First off 4 wins over .500 isn’t great and he was given talent in both of his stints as a manager and did almost nothing with them.
Second he made tonnes of decisions that made zero sense. He was not a good in game manager and was not a good pitchers manager.
The Jay’s are much better off without him.
One problem with Gibby was the overmanaging of the bench. Too many times he’d call for a pinch hitter in a meaningless situation in the 7th inning only to have a meaningful situation in the 9th, and the bullets have already been used. Also would make moves to weaken the team D in late-innings also.
Problem is, not sure if that was a Gibby thing or an Anthopoulos thing. Gibby managed his tail off in 2016 after AA was gone. He became a different manager, and a better one at that.
Gibbons is the perfect guy to deal with the younger and inexperienced guys. He is not the type to BS, and that can be appreciated by the players in that locker room. The time to truly question this will depend on who’s hired next. I presume Eric Wedge will be a candidate.
Big mistake by Toronto management.
Gibbons is the right man for their managerial position.
Typical management move by making the manager
the scapegoat to cover their own errors!
Hopefully he gets another managerial job soon!
Gibbons himself said he didn’t really want to be a part of a rebuild
With former Tribe guys being in the front office, do you think they’ll go after Sandy Alomar Jr?
Was hoping for Carl Willis
Hehehehe
I heard the Girardi (sp?) rumour a while back…. of all the names out there… I’d want him… if nothing else for his know-how of AL East.
Good! Now we just need Texas to get Gibbons and Toronto to get Banister.
Looks like Gibbons is the scapegoat for the incompetence of the Atkinshapiro regime. Indians fans feel bad for you Jays fans, but are thrilled not to be in your position anymore.
Shatkins and Shapyro are a joke.
Good for you John…take the money and run from this mess.
Gibbons knew his time was up, commenting in Spring Training that Jays fans should ‘come out and watch John Gibbons manage his last year in Toronto.’ Gibbons is a stand-up guy with a solid point of view on both baseball and non-baseball matters – I admire Gibbons toughness and honesty – I think he’d make a great bench coach. The Jays brass put Gibbons in an unwinnable position this year with their foolish idea to “compete” in 2018. Best of luck to JG.
Hey I like Gordon Lightfoot. Why degrade his name with your’ posts? No one is blaiming Gibby for anything. New front offices rarely keep a manager from the old one. This one did for 3 years. Now it’s time for a new manager to manage a new generation of players, not hobblers like Donaldson or jokes like Tulowitzki, guys who should retire like Bautista etc. They need a younger new manager for the change. Why the bandwagon temper tantrum?
The Baltimore Orioles…the Edmund Fitzgerald of MLB
“Bandwagon temper tantrum” … I was complimenting Gibbons and wishing him well. I said nothing about “blaiming,” I’ve never heard of such a thing.
Old crusty baseball guys who can’t conform to current baseball.
He’s been saying for months he isn’t interested in being part of a rebuild.
Unfortunately I think the Jays will steal Stubby Clap from the Cardinals…at least they should…He has guided the Cardinals AAA team to a championship this year and does great with young players….Also he is from Canada
Not his fault. Going for it a few years back resulted in the more recent situation of key older player injuries and/or at the back end of their career tying up too much $$$ (including Tulo, JD and Joey Bats). I just wonder if given a chance with the new blood upcoming, how the team would perform under Gibbons.
Everyone on the field required a walking cane…. he was set up for failure a while ago
BAD MOVE
Tell Gibby that. He’s the one that didn’t want to come back to manage a rebuild.
This is Atkins and Shapiro putting their failings on the Manager. Not that Gibby is a master tactician, but he’s solid, and has managed this current team about as well as anyone would have.
I also am tired of the crud that Anthopolis takes for sacrificing youth to make two playoff runs. Yes, Tulo’s one of the worst contracts in the league, but the Jays wanted to move Reyes, and”super prospect” Jeff Hoffman is 6-9 with a 5.88 ERA in parts of three seasons. Dealing away Daniel Norris, who has zero wins this year and an almost 6 ERA for Price, who got them to the playoffs. Even the Mets trade, while long term doesn’t look great, isn’t a train wreck. D’arnaud has 15 at bats this season and has not been able to stay healthy at all during his career. Thor has 36 wins in four years, Dickie had more in his four years with the Jays.
Finally, watch out for Sandy Alomar Jr. to become the next skip for the Jays. He was a finalist when Gibby was hired, and has the Cleveland connection.
It’s good that baseball fans get to see the stupidity that rules Toronto internet, all posted by the Moron Bandwagon who believe:
a) the reason Gibby is being let go is because of the team record
b) the Front Office of Shapiro, Atkins, Cherington LaCAva is to blame because their diapers need changing,
c( Tulo is a major league baseball player
d) Anthopoulos was a good GM because he built a team of old players and a lousy farm system for which the current FO should be blamed.
This stupidity blankets Twitter and the fansites. When people in the USA see the Blue Jays franchise moved to a better market, they’ll know why. Toronto is simply too stupid to have a baseball team..
Are you trying to be ironic
Knew it was coming, but I’m still bummed. Gotta love Gibby. I wish him nothing but the best. As for non-Jays fans here commenting, do keep in mind that he did say a few weeks ago that he wasn’t keen on staying around for a rebuild; I don’t care much for the Jays management, but I’m not mad at them for this one.
Shame shatkins couldn’t join Gibbs
The Mets should have no part of Shapiro or Gibbons.
We’ll be looking for a new manager in Baltimore, for about certain. The Orioles can do worse than a guy with AL East experience, who went to the ALCS twice in the last four years, has a winning record and is only 56.
Wouldn’t surprise me if they hired a younger first time manager. They have a guy in the minors that has won championships the last 2 years in A and AA and he knows and has great relationships with all the young talent coming up from the minors. Don’t be surprised if he gets named manager. Or someone like him.
Either that, or Cito Gaston again
Goodbye Gibby you are a good guy and thanks for the memories. I hope you land in Texas as manager.
As for Gibby’s replacement, I am watching the Jays mgmt decision here with wide open eyes. Shapiro hired Tito in Cleveland which is one of the best Cleveland moves he ever did. Question: Is Shaprio going to hire a guy that he can control and work with or is he going to hire a manager who will be his own man?
Is there a Tito calibre manager available? Not Eric Wedge, not Showalter, Girardi would be close in calibre but I am not sure Girardi would work for Shaprio.
Interesting Blue Jays decision to come.
Girardi is the only guy currently available with the track record. I don’t see Joe wanting to be part of the rebuild.