10:36pm: There “is nothing official” between Holland and the Nationals yet, Chelsea Janes tweets, though it seems like a deal will indeed happen eventually.
9:58pm: The two sides have reached an agreement, Heyman tweets.
1:19pm: It appears the two sides are “moving toward a deal,” Jon Heyman of Fancred reports.
11:42am: The Nationals and free-agent reliever Greg Holland are in discussions on a contract, Chelsea Janes of the Washington Post reports. They’re one of several teams to show interest in the Scott Boras client since the Cardinals released him on Friday.
On paper, Holland would help replenish a Washington bullpen which lost fellow right-handers Brandon Kintzler (traded to the Cubs) and Shawn Kelley (designated for assignment) earlier this week. However, both Kintzler and Kelley have outpitched Holland, who endured a shockingly poor stint as a member of the Cardinals.
Thanks to his past work as a closer with the Royals and Rockies, Holland secured a $14MM guarantee from the Cardinals on Opening Day. That came after Holland unexpectedly sat on the open market for the entire offseason, and it’s likely that not getting to partake in spring training contributed to his subpar St. Louis tenure. Regardless, Holland posted an equally peculiar and unacceptable line with St. Louis, where he notched a 7.92 ERA with 7.92 K/9 and 7.92 BB/9 over 25 innings (32 appearances). Consequently, despite the Redbirds’ sizable investment in Holland – whose signing also cost them their second-round pick in 2019 – they cut the cord on him after four months.
Landing Holland would be a far less risky play for the Nationals than it was for the Cards, as he’d only cost the Nats the prorated league minimum through season’s end. Reeling him in would also add yet another Boras client to a roster which already has seven such players, give Holland a chance to rebuild his stock going into the offseason and perhaps help keep Washington in contention. At 56-54, the Nationals will enter play Sunday trailing the NL East-leading Phillies by six games and a wild-card spot by 4 1/2.
Do the Nats miss Papelbon that much?
PAPELBON WITHDRAW ANTIDOTE IS TO SIGN HOLLAND.
Your caps lock appears to be broken. Go fix it.
SAY WHAT? I CAN’T HEAR YOU, YOU’RE TYPING IN LOWER CASE.
You know Dayton Moore has talked to him…
Lmmfao! Desperate! The Nationals are the most overrated team in baseball, 6 years running. Always picked to go to the WS. Only to get bounced in the first round every time!
No, the desperate move was your Cardinals paying him $14 mil this offseason
TAKEN TO THE CLEANERS
And losing a draft pick. Great move Cards lmao
No worries. You live and you learn. 14 million is nothing in today’s game
Loss of the draft pick is much worse imo
Cards give a guy $14 mil and lose a draft pick = no big deal in today’s game.
Nats give same guy a league minimum deal four months later = desperation.
You’re a terrible troll
Both true. Both statements are independent of each other.
I wouldn’t called the signing by the Cardinals desperate at that time… idiotic comes to mind. There’s a reason why he went unsigned for such a long time. The gNats move on the other hand IS desperation. They cut Kelly because he threw a tantrum during a blowout that his team was winning. How bad is the clubhouse when that becomes a major issue. Is there no one that could have handled that internally? That team needs to be blown up, or at least majorly overhauled. Keep Scherzer, Turner, Rondon, Soto and Robles and get rid of everyone else.
What that team needs is for ownership to stop skimping on the coaching staff. All the pieces are there. They just seem to lack the leadership winning clubs always possess. Martinez is obviously not the answer. Sign Girardi or Showalter this offseason and bring in whatever coaching staff they choose.
Not really…if Holland agrees to work in the minors for a minute he might figure it out…why not take a chance on him
“ . . . why not take a chance on him”
Particularly since iirc, they would be paying him at the minor league rate while he tries to figure things out. How much can his minor league salary for a couple of months cost them—$2K, $5K? Appears to be a no-brainer.
I don’t usually post here, but I had to give you your props for making some great arguments regarding this…..I agree wholeheartedly with each of your posts.. Hard to imaging why some folks who give you “down” votes…..Every thing you posted was super positive and on target.
Boo
If he gets anything more than league minimum, they already made a mistake
Huh?
That is all they have to pay him. The Cardinals are still picking up the tab for this year.
I agree, it would be a mistake to pay someone more than the league minimum when they were released by another team. Mostly because that never happens (that I know of?). Players usually just use this as an opportunity to pick the team that is the best situation for them, as they are getting paid the same either way
“ . . . it would be a mistake to pay someone more than the league minimum when they were released by another team.”
Holland’s contract for this year is what it is, he will be paid the exact same amount no matter how much he signs for as long as it’s less than the original ~$14M. If a team were to offer him a contract for $5M it would only mean that his new team would be paying a larger portion of the original $14M—the player wouldn’t receive an additional dime. So it should be pretty obvious that Holland has no reason to negotiate with potential new teams over salary as saving the Cardinals organization $ is no longer on his agenda.
“Players just use this as an opportunity to pick the team that is the best situation for them, as they are getting paid the same . . .”
Exactly. Unless someone offers Holland more than the original $14M—which appears highly unlikely—his salary for this year has already been determined.
Maybe an extension.
Questionable move. Downgrade from Shawn Kelley.
Thats irrelevant as Kelley got himself kicked out of DC. It isnt like the Nats cut Kelley so the could get Holland.
It’s not irrelevant because the Nationals created the hole in their roster that they had to fill with Holland. Kelly didn’t get himself kicked off the roster. He apologized for what he did.
Greg Holland is being discussed as an ‘acquisition’ to throw BP, as that’s what his main role has been in 2018 for $14 million.
Better Cards signing, Dexter Fowler 5 years, or Holland? (And by better I mean worse).
Holland worse on a rate basis, Fowler certainly worse in the long run. He did hit in his first season, but 3 more years of him seems as dumb as anything.
Holland had about 2 appearances that were acceptable, but otherwise, he was just a disaster, no other pleasant way to put it.
Fowler was good enough last year and still has some time to turn it around for the rest of his contract and salvage some value. Holland was paid 14m to throw 25 innings and blow 6 games in half a season.
Fowler. Holland was only a one year deal. Fowler is just going to get pushed down the depth chart, as the Cards have some pretty good younger OFers.
At least Cards were not stupid enough to trade for a bad pitcher like Axford. But I guess that’s one of those sneaky genius moves that somehow Friedman gets known for.
Kenny Lofton should be in the Hall of Fame
The Shelby Miller deal was the worst trade of the last decade
The Twins were 29-52 on the road when they won the World Series in 1987.
What if c-a-t really spelled dog?
I’m an agnostic, dyslexic, insomniac. I know this because I lay awake at wondering if there is a Dog.
Lol why is this guy parading around all the articles campaigning for Kenny Lofton’s hof candidacy?
A weak trolling attempt.
I got to say though, he’s not wrong. The fact that he was off the ballot in a year was a disgrace.
Fans should vote for the HOF- I mean, hell, we’re the one’s paying for the tickets.
Fans get ten votes, and the election is decided by number of votes in relation to the rest of the ballot, rather than a percentage to prevent trolling.
Say top three or if based on gap from the next guy
such as
If a player gets less than 5% of fan votes, then he’s off- feel like a voting pool of millions helps avoid snubs (no time restriction either- if they keep getting >5% then keep them)
Phillies2017…fans voting for the HoF? Have you paid attention to All-Star voting?
I remember when one of the sports websites did a “fan vote” before the 2014 vote. Greg Maddux barely would have made it and they left Glavine out completely. Fans would turn the HoF into a popularity contest like the AS game is…..please no, just NO.
No. Fans shouldn’t even get votes for the all star game
No. Fans shouldn’t even get votes for the all star game. And why would anyone need more than 1 single vote? I hate how they left fans vote so many times. I know it’s supposed to keep people interested, but it’s a bad idea. It’s like letting people vote X amount of times for president. That would be a terrible idea lol
“Fans would turn the HoF into a popularity contest like the AS game is…..”
On the other hand, they can’t do worse than the VC, Cat. Jack Morris? Come on.
Nats fans must be in disbelief. Replacing a good late-inning option with a guy that has a near-8 ERA. Are they trying to lose?
“Nats fans must be in disbelief. Replacing a good late-inning option with a guy that has a near ~8 ERA.”
That isn’t what they are doing. Holland would start at AAA and have to earn a ML spot, at least during August. Rizzo is as capable of reading his stat line as you are.
“Are they trying to lose?”
Nope. They are taking a cheap flyer on a player who was useful* as recently as last year. And don’t mix this potential move up with releasing Kelley as they are not connected.
*I said useful, not great.
But aren’t they trying to make the playoffs? I totally understand taking cheap flyers, but when you are trying to make a playoff push you would think they would upgrade the roster instead of trying to squeak by without anyone noticing. Teams tend to make these kinds of moves when they’re rebuilding.
Their window is closing rapidly, you’d think they would have made/would be making a much stronger push. They’re capable of going far this year but not sure they are trying.
“But aren’t they trying to make the playoffs?”
Yes. The Nats actually are trying to compete for a championship this year, and expected to compete for a championship going into this year. This is not a tear-down or rebuilding year for them.
“Teams tend to make these kinds of moves when they’re rebuilding.”
I don’t follow. Holland will be a free agent at the end of the season. Why would a team which has given up on this season and were rebuilding for next year and beyond sign a player who is only controllable through this year? Gotta assume Rizzo is doing this on the off-chance that Holland can rebound and contribute a little something this year. Little lost if he can’t.
“Their window is closing rapidly.”
I take it you don’t follow the Nats very closely. Even if Harper departs via free agenc this offseason—which is by no means guaranteed— the Nats will start out next year with Scherzer, Strasburg, Rendon, Turner, Doolittle, Soto, Robles, Ross and Eaton. (May have missed a few.). They will still need a C, another SP and a couple of other items but that isn’t a bad place to start.
“ . . . you’d think they would have made/would be making a much stronger push.”
By doing what? Their overall talent rules out most moves. Would Machado have been an upgrade to Rendon? Probably so, but why would the Nats have made that a priority? The one place where they are most susceptible to improvement is C, and apparently the price Miami wanted for Realmuto (Soto, Robles +) was too high. What move(s) should they have made?
“They’re capable of going far this year . . . “
That’s the thing. They may not make the playoffs, the odds are against them now. But if they do, they have the talent to advance and even win the whole thing. As they did last year, 2014 and 2016, of course. But the Nats aren’t going to trade someone they expect to be a real player for them in order to rent someone for a couple of months, that’s just not the way they do business. I’m sure they still regret trading Felipe Lopez/Vasquez for Melançon.
I don’t quite understand what Mike Rizzo is doing right now. First he trades a good Middle Reliever in Brandon Kintzler for nothing based on suspicion that he had spoken out about problems in the clubhouse rather than addressing it with him, or addressing the specific issues, and then gets rid of Shawn Kelley for throwing his glove.
Now he’s signing a reliever with an 8 ERA on the season who didn’t have a spring training in what he is calling a push to make the playoffs.
Nats need to do what they can to restock the system a bit, trade anyone with less than 3 years of control to add to Turner Robles, Soto, Scherzer and Strasburg
Rizzo should have been questioning the manager as to why he didn’t stick up for Kelly. Kelly had a legitimate beef with the umps and I don’t blame him for looking into the dugout during his blowup.
“I don’t quite understand what Mike Rizzo is doing right now. First he trades a good Middle Reliever in Brandon Kintzler . . . “
Read an article in The Wash Post during spring training about Kelley and Kintzler and how they were influencing others. It specifically mentioned the two veteran relievers tendency towards sarcasm and questioning authority. At the time this was considered a good thing.
But apparently that sort of act plays differently under a rookie manager than it did under a graybeard like Dusty Baker. At some point Rizzo decided that K&K were a negative rather than positive influence on others, hence they were exiled.
While the wisdom of this move has yet to be determined, I can’t fault Rizzo after viewing a replay of the glove throw. How the heck do you throw a fit when your team is up 25-4?
Have you seen the full video? It clearly shows what Kelly was saying was true. Not doubting the rest of what you are saying, it would actually explain a lot.
“Have you seen the full video?”
Yes.
“It clearly shows what Kelley was saying was true.”
I didn’t see it that way. Had he directed that fit at the umpire he’d have been ejected from the game, no? It was a 25-4 game. Most in the dugout had tuned it out innings ago. If Kelley had a problem with Martinez not sticking up for him the place to deal with that is in the clubhouse, not on the field. He chose to show up his manager on the field instead. Hence his DFA.
I still say Kelly had a legit problem with the umps. You can see him going back and forth with the second base ump. Should Kelly have handled it better? Yes. However a good manager would have been out there to take up for his pitcher. For all the faults of Dusty, he would have been out there in a hurry. Of course if the problems existed that you brought up, I can see why he didn’t but they should have let Kelly go before that happened.
“I still say Kelly (sic) had a legit problem with the umps.”
And I’m not arguing that point. The question concerned how he handled his disappointment that his manager didn’t run right out and defend him.
“Should Kelly (sic) have handled it better? Yes.”
And that was my point.
“ . . . Dusty . . . would have been out there in a hurry.”
You’re giving him too much credit. Dusty probably wouldn’t have noticed anything until too late either.
“ . . . but they should have let Kelly(sic) go before that happened.”
Perhaps it took an incident like that to drive home to Rizzo just how much of a distraction Kelley had become. Perhaps Martinez finally told Rizzo that Kelley had to go. And they are something like 5-1 since so who knows.
I understand your criticism that the Nats should have acted sooner. But people tend to give up on their own ideas reluctantly. They had Kelley signed to a three year deal and just signed a two year deal with Kintzler this past offseason. I’m sure they didn’t expect they would get rid of either while still competing for a playoff spot.
I agree with this take, I thought Kelley was pissed at Martinez for not coming out to make the umpires get their “instructions” straight. OTOH, if Martinez goes out there, it takes even longer to finish the game, and you’ve got to deal with that umpiring crew the next day.
If these guys got cut for excessive sarcasm, then I guess I’m destined to lead a nomadic life.
Kintzler and Kelley should have been traded prior to the trade deadline. Both were pitching well. Rizzo could have replaced them both for someone similar. But instead it the Nats got back were some prospects and international money.
Especially since Relievers’ values seem to be at an all-time-high these days. Kelley had serviceable stats. still say if he controbuted the first 2 years, and stayed off the DL, he wouldn’t get DFA’d!!!
Think his past performance played a role in DFA. He was quietly having a good year too. Then dumped… If he had a better first 2 years with the Nats, and this exact scenario played out, think he would NOT have gotten DFA’d.
I find it hard to imagine that Martinez will ever have a reason to call on Holland in a game that is closer than double digits. Ever since August 6, 2017 Holland has an ERA over 9. Of all the late signings that have turned out horribly, Alex Cobb, Neil Walker and Jay Bruce, to name a few, Holland still stands out because there was no reason to think he could still do the job.
The Nats are now exactly one Wade Davis away from reuniting the Former Royals combination of HDH.
I’m starting to see that it’s a lot of Cardinals haters on here s
The Nats coulda had Kintzler and Kelley instead but the Nats had to trade them away. Sad!
I wanted to see Holland on this Nats team…..2 years ago. That being said, I still dont mind the pick up. If there is any way they can get him right here to end this season, it’s a big win for the team. After letting two veteran relievers go, to bring one in with Holland’s pedigree, again, if they can get him right, is big if the Nats do have designs on a pennant chase. Whether Kelley and Kintzler were moles or malcontents, only those in the dugout and front office know for sure. All I know is that the team is 5-1 since, and seemingly playing much better team ball. Wondering if this means as well that there is more worry about health of Doolittle than expected?
Nats team is the most egotistical and overhyped team of this generation. Premadonas teaching young talent to be softer and throw more tantrums when its not going their way. Werth is a huge scumbag but atleast he kept his team in check with his “bro”ness. Nats are “werth”less.
I must have missed something obvious or something, but why did the nats designate Kelley in the first place. His numbers seemed decent
Behavioral issues.
Besides not having the chance to participate in Spring Training, the Cardinals just gave him a brief couple of weeks before they threw him into the wolves as a closer. He walked the first 3 batters he faced. Control is his problem this year. A change in scenery out of St. Louis will be the best thing for him. Good luck Greg Holland!!!
This is a site for rumors, so this is not a criticism of this site. Heyman is held to a higher standard, as a journalist, however. What ever happened to getting confirmation before reporting? (A tweet from a reporter is a report.) How many times can you be wrong, before the quest to be first becomes secondary to the quest to be accurate?
Great underachieving club for Greg to underachieve on. Great move to get a guy who’s career mirrors the direction on his new franchise.
Will he close?
If I was a Nationals fan I’d wear a helmet of some kind as balls will be flying into the stands. Protect yourself! Otherwise, he’ll just walk run in, take your pick…..