If it seems that Chris Archer has been in trade rumors for years, that’s because he has. We’ve seen his name presented for quite some time as a top potential target for teams seeking young, affordable starting pitching. That happened again this summer, though it was far from clear in the run-up to yesterday’s deadline whether he’d be traded.
When the dust settled, Archer was finally on the move — and to something of a surprise destination. He’s heading to the Pirates in a deal that sends outfield prospect Austin Meadows, righty Tyler Glasnow, and a still-unknown player to be named later. Until we know the final piece of the deal, it’s a bit difficult to assess it fully, but indications are that it’s another asset of significant value.
For the Rays, it’s a familiar type of swap, though they’ve typically waited until free agency was a bit closer to ship out pitching assets. They’ll get three highly controllable assets in return; Glasnow entered the season with less than a full year of MLB service and Meadows just debuted.
There’s risk in the new Tampa Bay talent, of course. Glasnow has shown a big arm but still hasn’t harnessed it. The Bucs have utilized him as a reliever this year and he’s still issuing 5.5 walks per nine. The upside remains tremendous, though. Meanwhile, Meadows can boast of a top-prospect pedigree and a .292/.327/.468 slash line in his first 49 MLB contests. But he hasn’t hit all that much in the upper minors since the start of the 2017 season and had slid down prospect rankings entering the current campaign.
From an organizational perspective, the Rays are increasingly utilizing hybrid hurlers over 200-inning starters. They could see Glasnow as a great fit for a more flexible role. And Meadows could be a long-term asset in the outfield. Plus, there’s still a bonus piece we don’t know about. And with Archer’s commitment off the books, the budget-conscious Rays have plenty of wiggle room financially.
How do you grade this move for the Rays? (Link for app users.)
Meanwhile, Archer has his own risks. He is plenty affordable, but increasingly expensive ($6.25MM this year, $7.5MM next, with $20MM in options to follow for 2020 and 2021). It has been some time now since his bottom-line results have matched up with the shiny peripherals, and Archer is now closing in on his 30th birthday.
At the same time, the righty is a quality performer even if he’s not a front-line starter. Archer has averaged over 200 innings annually from 2014 through 2017. He’s posting career-best 13.6% swinging-strike rate on the year and seems a good bet at least to improve upon his current 4.31 ERA.
Perhaps Archer isn’t an ace and won’t be enough to help the Bucs complete a drive to the postseason (the odds of which still seem long). Still, there’s an argument to be made that this is a sensible baseball swap for a team that knows well the players it is parting with.
How do you see it? (Link for app users.)
xabial
A for Rays. “King’s ransom”
B for Pirates. (Unless they make playoffs)
Grades inclusive of unknown PTBNL also to Tampa
Monkey’s Uncle
The exact same grades I gave out for both teams. As a Pirates fan I love the move. I’m a little regretful about them giving up Meadows: I’m still not sure who the real Gregory Polanco is, maybe Meadows could have been his replacement down the road. But it’s a solid move for a team who never makes this type of trade.
jkoms57
Down the road? How about right now? Only reason Polanco has a starting job is pirates are to cheap to not use him.
We know the real Polanco, hes the “care-less” guy who accepted having his arb years bought out by the bucs and killed his mitivation.. As we’ve seen in the past with Tabata, that strategy rarely works, espec when it comes with automatically being handed a starting job.
davep-3
Or because his Rc+ = 130
ray_derek
Unless they make the payoffs? It’s not like Archer is a free agent
RunDMC
Agreed, this is a trade that both teams need to make based on their markets. TB cannot afford to pass up high-end pieces that can blossom into their next stars, while PIT cannot pass up and “arguable ace” and the 3+ years of control he has at a down-low price. PIT pitching wiz Ray Searage has worked wonders on guys with a lot less talent, so it’ll be interesting to see Chris Archer there.
I really like the trade for both sides and even though TB held onto Archer a bit too long, they still came out looking great. How they came away with Pham, Glasnow, Meadows (and another “significant piece”) is pretty amazing. Can’t wait to see McKay down the line.
tonyinmunhall
Could it be Jung Ho Kang??
getright11
Too early to matter much, right?
rxbrgr
How can this be graded without knowing the full extent of the deal?
bruinsfan94 2
Agreed. If it’s a top 100 piece of another legit young piece that changes the whole complexion of the deal.
hamelin4mvp
Pirates fell in love with the years of control and contract rather than who Archer is as a pitcher. Guy is 29 and not a #1 starter. And that’s OK. But everyone needs to move past what his potential is. His prime years are behind him. Still a ton of punch outs.
bruinsfan94 2
He is in the middle of his prime, he is 29. Also he is now moving from the beast of the AL east to a much more relaxed NL central.I voted B for both teams but It could easily be an A for the Rays depending on who they are getting back,
soxsam32
Doesn’t have to face Boston anymore, which teed off against him
Yankeepride88
Or Baltimore. BAL has always hit him well
heater
I think this is a better deal for Pittsburgh than it seems regardless of the 3rd piece. They likely had to beat a few other strong offers to get him. A gamble, yes. But he’ll likely be better out of the AL east and in the NL. Let’s not forget that trade talk has been circling this kid for quite a while now, which can take a mental toll on guys. Plus he comes with some team control and good pitching is hard to come by. Nice move for the Bucs.
CursedRangers
Not to mention the Pirates can trade him again and recoup more minor league talent.
MrStealYoBase
The aging curve for pitchers is different than hitters. I would argue that peak for a pitcher can be anywhere from 27-33 depending on the guy. Hitters more often it’s 26-29.
jkoms57
Who would have thought the Pirates would get Archer, and all theyd have to give up is their #1 prospect and a 99mph LHP w a plus slider..
STEAL
vtadave
What LHP did they give up?
Bucs666
Who was this #1 prospect??? And Hearn was traded for Kela, not Archer.
STUPID!!!
chound
It’s a B for the Rays b/c they were stupid not to do it in the off season. Good enough return for where Archer was at this year though. Chose B for the Pirates b/c how can you really grade a package that’s missing a piece.
jbigz12
Were they getting more than Glasnow, Meadows + this offseason? Not sure about that. Pirates traded G Cole this offseason so they would’ve been getting a different package from a different team. Think they did just fine here.
chound
I don’t know, I don’t work for the Rays. But he wasn’t having a down year this last off season!
jbigz12
4.07 ERA last year 4.33 this year. Peripherals liked him better in both. Marginal difference, I’d say.
chound
Marginally down in nearly every stat outside of HR’s is significant.
TJECK109
How can you complain about the return for Cole right now? Cole wasn’t pitching like a #1 starter in Pittsburgh and never would have resigned. They got a good starter in Musgrove and every day 3B in Moran. If Feliz gets his stuff together it will be a very good haul for a guy pitching like a #3 or #4 starter.
jkoms57
Moran is horrendous.. Is he even batting mendoza?
Musgrove is a reliever that already proved he cant go more than 5 innings.
You say Cole wasnt pitching like a #1..
So what would you say about Archer? Is a 4+ERA cut it as a #1?
If you cant see this is a scheme to pretend theyre contenders to sell tickets in a year where sales are at record lows, then youre just like every other half-brain in this town.
Giving up Meadows has got to be the most boneheaded thing any GMs ever done.
I like Archer, but think, its the equivalent of trading Rookie McCutchen for a 29 year old 4ERA pitcher, and saying since hes coming from the AL Beast, its wortn it.
This is why i cheer yankees and ignore the hometown team until ownership changes.
jbigz12
Moran is a below average defensive 3B who hits at a roughly average clip. You didn’t get anything special there. Musgrove was a good pickup. Martin has shown some promise. It’s not an awful return but it’s not exactly earth shattering either. Cole had shown that TOR upside previously, as had archer. Archer just cost a lot more prospects. But 2 more years is going to cost more.
DonB34
You are forgetting that Moran is a PLATOON player. He doesn’t even start against left handed pitchers. So that makes him even less valuable since he doesn’t even play every day.. Already have Polanco and Bell that can’t hit left handed pitching. He’s just another guy in the pile.
DonB34
I also agree it was a PR move. They have no shot at a playoff spot, and won’t next season either. But people on The Fan calling in acting like they just got Chris Sale and Mariano Rivera with these two trades. They should have done this trade in 2014 when they had a shot, but Huntington loves his prospects too much. Hansen, McGuire already busts and given away for nothing, meanwhile they could have brought in a big pitcher in 2013-2015 when the Pirates needed it. Now Glasnow and Meadows senselessly given away too late again. Almost guarantee they trade Rivero/Vasquez next season and Archer the year after. Let the prospect collecting continue! Re-build part 7!
jkoms57
That’s what i dont get, we could have gotten what arb 3 Giancarlo Stanton had we just given up Taillon, Polanco & Tony Sanchez…
Would have added a meaningful bat to a meaningful lineup but neal loved his prospects.
Instead they let Byrd walk and used Travis Snider in RF, telling the fans Polanco would be up shortly… Well he didnt come up until late, and did not impress anyways.
Should have made that trade for Stanton then flipped him again arb 5 year.
Can you imagine that 2014 team witn Stanton batting cleanup?
Would have made a real run at the WS.
elcarim_23
Stanton had a short list of teams he would have accepted a trade to or else he would have been a Cardinal. I believe they had a deal in place but Stanton said Dodgers or Yankees (maybe have been other teams but I don’t remember)
bruinsfan94 2
I gave them B too for the same reasons. Too early for a poll when we don’t even know the final deal. If it’s a top 100 prospect,that is a legit get.. I thought it was weird for both teams to do this deal before the offseason.
jbigz12
If they can get Glasnow’s command right he could be better than Archer. Gigantic question mark at this point but to add him and another highly regarded OF prospect is a pretty good starting point. We’ll see what the third piece is but you can’t really ask for more than what they received. They did very well here.
jobusrum9
That’s a big if.
Archer and Glasnow both had similar results their 1st trio to the big leagues. Each pitcher got 4 starts and had around a mid 4 era with some positive and some other troubling advances stats.
Archers 1st season as a starter he made 23 starts with a 3.22 era, Glasnow was done as a starter after his 1st 13 starts due to his 7+era.
Archer was a full year older then Glasnow when he debuted so that can’t be completely overlooked, but I just don’t see Glasnow ever being as effective as a starter as Archer has been.
The thing is Pit may not be getting that Archer. I think it says a lot that Archers last good season was the last year TB was competitive. He’s a very competitive guy so I believe being in a playoff hunt will bring the best out of him.
I also think Glasnow is in a better spot on a rebuilding team with a lot of guys that will all be in similar situations as him surrounding him.
This is why I see this as a win win. I really don’t see Meadows or Glasnow as world beaters, but they both have the potential which is why it’s intriguing.
itslonelyatthetrop
I’m fine with it. The PTBNL is just whipped cream on top.
jkoms57
Knowing the Pirates, theyll prob give you another top-10 since already overpaying wasnt enough.
..and if you want someone like Marte or Harrison in a few months, you can have them for a handful of role-players, as seen in the Cole trade.. Even when at least one good looking prospect in Clint Frazier was on the table from another team, Huntington would much prefer your AAAA guys.
DonB34
Always quantity over quality with Huntington! Or years of control…. like the great Jon Niese!
fisher40
Meadows will probably be an all-star in a few years he’s got good talent
Yeti
Rays definitely won this trade. Comparable pitchers traded for far less… Two elite prospects just getting their feet wet in the big leagues. Shouldn’t have to trade that much to get a #3.
mcanterjivewiredtv
Why didn’t they just keep Gerritt Cole?
xabial
Because now they have their 3B of the future (Moran), and Cole wasn’t happy in PIT. (New Cole, since trade)
Not to mention…. Cole had 1 year Arb left. Archer has 3 years of team control (2 club options) Completely different situations and pitchers. Despite Cole having higher upside, Archer is not owed more than $11 million a season, the next 3 seasons.
Steven Chinwood
Moran is no ones “3B of the future”
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Not even the Pirates. Ke’Bryan Hayes will be their long term answer at 3B.
But, they’ll trade Moran at some point and he’ll be someone’s “servicable stop gap 3B of the future”.
KermitJagger
No, Musgrove was the best piece of that deal and thankfully he is very good. I think the OF they got in the deal has a chance at being very good as well.
barrybonds1994
Pirates blew the Gerrit Cole trade and they may have overpayed for a #2 to #3. Huntington is overtrading. In the stock market you win by buying and holding. Huntington is the day trader that loses in the long run
TJECK109
How do you blow a trade when a guy doesn’t want to be here and his results showed it. Picked up 3 additions to your major league roster in return.
DonB34
Basically traded Cole, Meadows, Glasnow, and a PTBN for Archer, Moran, Musgrove, Feliz…. with an extra year of Archer. Total loss Pirates fans. Don’t kid yourselves. Searage won’t “fix” Archer. He basically broke Morton and Cole. Didn’t fix Erik Bedard, Kevin Correa, Jonathan Sanchez, Jon Niese.. Drew Hutchison…..
mcanterjivewiredtv
But “win now” is a thing. I know the reasons behind it but Moran is average at best and I’d rather have Cole, Meadows and Glasnow instead of Archer and Moran. It’s not a bad trade in a vacuum, but adding the Cole deal to it feels all sorts of meh.
TJECK109
What about musgrove?
thegreatcerealfamine
X…Ke’Bryan Hayes is the Pirates 3B of the future
c1234
I graded A for rays and a low grade for pirates because the pirates basically gave up their future core for a career 4+ ERA
retire21
“Gave up their future core”!?
I don’t think so.
TJECK109
Not their future core. If and it’s a big if that Glasnow figures it out. Right now he’s good for either striking out the side or giving up 2 runs without getting an out and can’t put together 2 good innings
KermitJagger
These guys were once vital building blocks. Other guys in the system have passed them up.
mattgarcia2324
So glad the yankees didn’t get him. Pirates gave up alot for a slightly above average pitcher can’t imagine what it would have cost the yanks.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Almost verbatim what Yankees fans said after missing out on Gerritt Cole.
billneftleberg
Except that the pirates wanted Andujar,Frazier,and Sheffield for Cole and Moran is no where as good as Andujar,and Sheffield isn’t tarnished like Glasnow. And on the whole Frazier was higher ranked than meadows on top 100 charts.
Yankee fans were right Andujar on pace for 25/90 is a leading Rookie of the year candidate
thegreatcerealfamine
He’s not on pace for 25 and 90. I’d say Torres is the leader in the clubhouse for ROY and wouldn’t be surprised if Ohtani gets more votes than Andujar.
PopeMarley
Just looked that up and na. Way to paint a picture wearing those homer goggles. Boy you crazy-as-hell
Steven Chinwood
Um, Frazier was never ranked higher than Meadows, and it was Torres they wanted not Andujar.
dvazquez190
To be fair not all top 100 charts had Meadows higher than Frazier. For instance Bleacher Report at one point had Frazier higher. As for the 25/90 no he isn’t on pace for that. However he is on pace for 20/70 which only slightly diminishes his point. Andujar will finish the season with a WAR at around 2 (At least he’s on pace to) while Moran has struggled to play at replacement level. Although Cole has been great, not sure I would’ve given up that package myself.
thegreatcerealfamine
You’re right.
barrybonds1994
Pirates would be better off with Cole, Meadows and Glasnow than their Astros Package and Archer
Robertowannabe
Cole was mediocre in Pittsburgh and if he would have been mediocre again this year, his trade value would have been way lower. Cole was gone after next season no matter what. He may well be gone from Houston after next season as well.
mfh530
Glasnow had more than enough opportunities in Pgh as a starter. Command and consistency were never there , sometimes you just gotta move on. Meadows will be a stud in Tampa as long as he stays healthy. Unless the third piece is a top 5 prospect, I like this deal for Pgh.
CluHaywood
PTBNL are almost exclusive outside the top 30.
therealryan
Usually yes, but those closest to this situation are reporting that the PTBNL will be a significant prospect that Pirate fans will know. That sounds like someone in their top 10 to me.
therealryan
17 starts split between a player’s age 22 and 23 seasons is not more than enough starts. Especially considering he has been very good at AAA and was the top pitching prospect in baseball at one point.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
I hope both players have fine careers in Tampa, it affects the Pirates in almost no way if they do.
But, since being promoted from AA last year, Meadows has really only had the one good month in MLB and no good months in AAA. If he pans out, he’ll be Corey Dickerson with a few more steals. They already have the finished product in Corey Dickerson. The Pirates also have Luplow, Swaggerty, Martin and Reynolds behind him.
Glasnow has all the talent in the world. He has shown almost no signs of harnessing any of it. I’ll miss his deer in the headlights look on the mound. Tampa is the best place to give him a shot, though. The Pirates essentially used him as a Rule 5 pick. He was their mop up man and Hurdle didn’t trust him beyond that.
I’m actually more concerned about the third piece as the Pirates will not miss Meadows or Glasnow. You can quibble about their theoretical trade values, their upsides, etc. but the reality is neither player will be missed from this year’s team. And with Mitch Keller, Shane Baz and the afformentioned OF’ers coming, they are unlikely to be missed from the next few year’s teams.
So, the Pirates added a guy who is not an ace, but is in the top 5 in innings pitched and strikeouts over the past 5 years for expendable pieces. Not sure how they could have done better.
Meanwhile, all prospects have question marks, but the Rays got a guy who a high ceiling and a high floor in Meadows (he could be an All Star one day…or he could be a solid boring OF…but I doubt he busts) and a guy who admittedly has no floor but has one of the highest ceilings in the game. So, they did fine, too.
A for the Pirates. B for the Rays, only because they seem a bit too enthusiastic about Glasnow and while possible, I wouldn’t bet on him reaching that potential. If the PTBNL is another good prospect, they move up to an A. Trades can help both teams, this is one.
thetruth 2
Archer is an ace. His FIP is more reflective of his ability.
thegreatcerealfamine
Give us a break.
thegreatcerealfamine
Martin is rated to be no better then a fourth outfielder. Reynolds may never even make it, he’s not exactly a top prospect. Archer is the most overrated starter in baseball and is turning 30 soon. Did the Pirates make this trade just to try and appease their fans?
lowtalker1
I think the rays got the better end of this one
I was rather shocked to see them give up meadows
I thought they were super high on that kid and he can hit
nutbunnies
A for the Rays. D for the Pirates.
The Pirates got less for Cole than they gave up for a worse pitcher.
And now they’re down a young cheap outfielder when they could have gotten one in Clint Frazier! What are they doing?
xabial
After this year,
Cole has 1 year of Arb. remaining
Archer had 3 years
Cole had higher upside, that he was never going to realize it on the Pirates. Cole’s rejuvenation has more to do with being traded to the Astros. If he stayed on the Pirates, I don’t think he was going to pitch like Ace. Sometimes, all you need is a change of scenery.
Steven Chinwood
And sometimes you are what you are.
nutbunnies
3 years of an average to below average pitcher for a cheap price isn’t worth that much more to me than a year of Cole, even before the trade. The package for Cole should have been better and the package for Archer should have been worse.
Steven Chinwood
Meadows will be an all star, horrendous trade from the Pirates side.
hiflew
So? That just means the Pirates can get him back for a couple of minor prospects after the Rays DFA him for making $5 million a la Corey Dickerson.
thegreatcerealfamine
Good one, cause that about sums up the Rays.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Jason Martin might very well being better than Meadows. He’s hit better in his minor league career than Meadows, including at AAA.
Musgrove is discernibly better than Glasnow. They competed side by side. Musgrove has staked his claim to a rotation spot by pitching well. Glasnow was relegated to mop up duty by pitching poorly. Same mound. If and when Glasnow’s work matches his upside, then he’ll be better. Right now, it’s not close.
Moran is an average MLB third baseman in his rookie year.
Feliz was inconsistent, but he’s young flashed more talent than Edgar Santana did in his tryout last year and now Santana is a solid 7th inning guy.
A better package than they sent to the Rays and much better than the Yankees offered when they whiffed on Cole.
thegreatcerealfamine
Tampa did really good in all ther trades.
thegreatcerealfamine
*their
chesteraarthur
Moran has not been an average 3b. He’s been worth 0 fWAR and -.1 bWAR. It’s real easy to paint a positive picture when you take liberties with what words actually mean…
Dorothy_Mantooth
At some point, Tampa either needs to stop selling off their talent or the owner needs to either move the team to a better market or sell the team to a billionaire who can afford to make investments in the team. The amount of talent that has run through the TB organization reads like an All-Star lineup; but any time those players are set to get a market deal, they get moved for AA or AAA prospects. So now it’s time to fish or cut bait in Tampa.
One positive note; at least they are not the Baltimore Orioles. That once-proud franchise is in complete disarray!
justreading
and they want to add two more teams
portland and vegas?
Begamin
They traded their 23 year old former top pitching prospect with an ERA of 4.34 on the season and their highly regarded young OF in Meadows for the 29 year old 4.31 ERA throwing pitcher in Archer.
Idk, if you wanted a 4.3 ERA i would have just kept Glasnow. I think the Rays won this one. It remains to be seen whether or not Chris Archer can return to form or not but I like the Rays end more than i like the Pirates end of the deal. A for Rays, C for Pirates (for now anyway)
KermitJagger
That 4.34 for Glasnow is as a pen arm. His results were largely disastrous as a starter. Lots of early inning implosions.
Begamin
Yeah, thats true. Idk, maybe Im just assuming he will pull a Severino. Burn through the minors, come up to the MLB, have a few great starts, next season rolls around just to get belted, then moved to bullpen, and then finds himself and fulfills his potential.
I still weigh it heavily towards the Rays at this point
KermitJagger
That’s what already happened for him in Pittsburgh, aside from elevating anywhere close to his supposed potential.
snotrocket
Depends if Archer pitches like the pitcher he is and has been for the last few years or the pitcher the media thinks he is and try to make everyone believe is an ace.
graysondecker
This trade will come to nothing more than a public relations move, just the Pirates ownership trying to bring people back to the ballpark. They had a much better pitcher in Gerrit Cole, and traded him for Joe Musgrove, a league average at best player in Colin Moran, and a reliever who has already cost them several games in Michael Feliz. Trading Austin Meadows, a potentially great outfielder, and Tyler Glasnow, who could be great if he found a consistent delivery, for a worse pitchers is a joke. It’s a hefty price tag for a guy who will never reach the heights Cole has reached in Houston this season.
thegreatcerealfamine
“This trade will come to nothing more than a public relations move” I posted a question up farther on whether the trade was just to appease the fans. Dumping Cole was all about payroll.
graysondecker
They weren’t willing to pay him as much as he was worth. And then paid Archer as much as they would have had to pay Cole. It’s just mediocre
DonB34
I was a partial season ticket holder for 20 years. I did not get a package this year after the Cole and McCutchen trades. I have been to PNC once, and that was to cheer Cutch in his first game back. I see it as a PR move. No one really believes this team has a chance except the super Kool-Aid drinkers. Heard lots of them on the radio yesterday acting like Archer was going to come here and pitch like Sandy Koufax and the Pirates were now the favorite to win the World Series. They may sell a few more tickets this week, but once they nose dive in August that will also be over.
jam
Dumping Cole was addition by subtraction. And if he were as good as some posters claim, don’t you think the Pirates would have gotten more from some other team?
Perhaps had Cole done better than a combined 19-22 in 2016 and 2017, the Pirates would have made the playoffs those years? Musgrove is the fiery competitor that fans thought Cole was when he was in fact a petulant pouter.
Come back and grade this trade two years from now and see what you think.
graysondecker
In two years, the Pirates will have initiated a full blown rebuild, because they’ll have realized how entirely stupid some of their trades were. Musgrove may have a competitive spirit, but he’s not Gerrit Cole. The Pirates realized he wasn’t Gerrit Cole. That’s why they also pushed for Feliz, Moran, and Jason Martin in return. Cole is now a AL Cy Young contender, Musgrove is a league average pitcher, Moran will never be anything better than a league average third baseman, Feliz will lose the Pirates more games than he wins, and Martin is not that great either. In two years, Cole will have a ring on his finger, and the Pirates will be wallowing in their own self-pity because they did this to themselves. I’m a Pirate fan. Don’t get me wrong. I love them and will always support them. But they can’t make trades, and they can’t develop a prospect. Something needs to be done up top.
athingortwo
It’s not rocket science, it’s pocket science. Get into the playoffs any way you need to; next year Trump might pull another N F L situation but for baseball this time or some other thing which would screw it up then.
stansfield123
A for the Pirates. Glasnow and Meadows failed to live up to expectations at the major league level. Treating them as top 20 overall prospects, at this point, is silly. Turning two players who are performing below replacement level, for a ridiculously under-paid star pitcher, is good work by the Pirates.
As for the Rays, E. Archer shouldn’t even have been on the market, let alone at this price.
The goal of a major league franchise should be to win. I can’t imagine being a fan of a team that off-loads their best starter, despite the fact that they have him for 3 1/2 more years on one of the most team friendly contracts in the majors….and your team is above .500, despite being stripped of all their best players in the previous off season.
I don’t even care if it’s the chicken or the egg that came first (if there are no baseball fans in the Tampa area, or if the behavior of the Rays is failing to attract them). Bottom line is, a team that doesn’t have a fan base, and is refusing to try and keep some of their stars so that they attract a fan base, should be unceremoniously thrown out of the majors.
By the way, I would be curious how many of the people who gave the Rays a good grade would actually be interested in buying season tickets to their games if they lived close to Tropicana Field. I bet not many…so the accolades they get for their thriftiness are worth exactly jack s@#t. Being good at managing a non-competitive team no one wants to see play is worth exactly the same as being bad at the same thing.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
The real question is who is the PTBNL?
This sounds crazy to me, but I’ve heard some talk that it could be Jung Ho Kang.
Connorsoxfan
I had been wondering if it was someone on the MLB roster that they just wanted to hold onto through the end of the season in case they made a playoff run.
Robertowannabe
Re MLB roster..player being the PTBNL. I am not sure but somehow, I remember that the PTBNL could not be a MLB roster player for a deadline deal per the waiver deadline rules. I could be wrong about that one.
Robertowannabe
Just was listening to Huntington on 93.7 in Pittsburgh… He confirmed the PTBNL by rule can not be anyone on the MLB roster. Has to be a prospect not on the MLB roster.
Robertowannabe
That would be outstanding from the Pirates side. Can you tell us where you heard the possibility that it could be Kang?
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Nothing even close to concrete…
Colin Dunlap tossed out the name to Colony “What if it was Jung Ho Kang?”. He later said he had spoken to a team source regarding Austin Meadows’ comments after his demotion and management’s unhappiness with them. I speculate the same source may have mentioned Kang off the record.
Later they spoke to a TB reporter who said (and this is also crazy to me) that fans there actually want it to be Jung Ho. But, I guess he does make some sense for TB. His salary is like $5 million and, if he regains form, is better than Duffy.
Later heard second hand (don’t remember where) that word out of TB was that it was someone on the DL somewhere in the Pirate organization. And, as discussed above, a PTBNL can’t be on the MLB roster. Kang is on the DL and not on the MLB roster.
Fingers crossed. That would be too perfect.
Robertowannabe
Thanks. Fingers crossed 🙂
dabigd
Archer seems to have an attitude, similar to Carlos Gomez, just not as brash. They were teammates for awhile
DarkSide830
I have to give the Rays an A for getting Meadows. If this trade happened before Meadows was promoted, I’d give it a C at best, but I think Meadows has proven that he CAN hit in the Majors. (not guaranteeing that he will continue to, but his success so far is encouraging)
The other piece will probably make it an A, assuming it’s not Cruz, who I believe is overvalued.
As for the Pirates, I love the deal as well, but I had to limit their score to at least a B because they had to give up Meadows. However, the Pirates have a way of turning around careers. The deal will probably only be worth it if he succeeds down the stretch (which I expect he will) and they trade him for more value in the offseason. (they aren’t close enough to being serious contenders to warrant keeping him. especially at the cost they paid) Should they trade him this offseason, I will consider it a B, but for the reason that they will not likely do so, I’ve given them a C, but it’s really a high C+, if not a B-.
jbigz12
meadows really cooled down after an insane start. I’m not sure he can keep it up but seeing that kind of offense from him at any stretch is good because it hasn’t been there the last 2 in the minors.
billneftleberg
Except that the pirates wanted Andujar,Frazier,and Sheffield for Cole and Moran is no where as good as Andujar,and Sheffield isn’t tarnished like Glasnow. And on the whole Frazier was higher ranked than meadows on top 100 charts.
Yankee fans were right Andujar on pace for 25/90 is a leading Rookie of the year candidate
mbgutt
Great move for both teams! From Pittsburgh side (I am a fan) it’s finally about the Now! The future never seems to get to Pittsburgh. Get archer out of al east and in no central. Many pitchers have found great success pitching in easier NL. Tampa restocks the farm.
DonB34
Are you kidding? The “now”?? There is no way this team makes the playoffs. They may not finish above .500. They should have traded Alan Hansen, Reese McGuire, Meadows, or Glasnow when they could have landed a legit #1 in 2014 and had a real contender. Not thrown away too late for average or horrendous returns.
Robertowannabe
One thing that I had hot seen nor heard anywhere else but listening to the pregame show for the Pirates last night, Jack Zduriencik, brought up the fact that over the last 8 starts for Archer he has had a 2.70 ERA. I checked the math to make sure he was correct and was. If he continues that run in Pittsburgh this year and forward, he is most definitely a #1 starter. I like the deal If they Bucs are able to extend Dickerson then the sting of losing Meadows does not hurt as much. I give the Rays side and the Pirates side both a B+ based on what I know at the moment.
jbigz12
You might want to delve a little deeper into those numbers. His longest outing was 6.2 innings. He did that exactly once. 3 of those outings he went five innings or fewer. That’s not a #1 starter.
Robertowannabe
Was coming back from a DL stint.
bobtillman
A year from now no one will remember this trade was made. Archer will continue to be “meh”, though probably a better grade of “meh” since he’s out of the AL East. Meadows will be blah, a guy who does everything OK, not anything well. And Glassnow will be a decent set up guy.
No REAL talent changed hands here……..
jbigz12
Big Bob’s got a crystal ball.
Z-A 2
Much better trade for the Bucs at the moment.. until we see who was involved. They gave up two okay prospects that havent even shown flashes of being LT solutions. Archer, I view him as a 2 on a WC contending team and a 3 on a WS contending team
ThatBallwasBryzzoed
We know what archer is capable of. He has no hitter stuff. Meadows and Glaagoe are question Marks. We dont know the ptbnl
sergefunction
Chris Archer, whom I like, seems a lesser James Shields at this exact point in their Rays history.
The Rays are as cheap as it gets, but seem smart in personnel matters. This may be the perfect jumping off point for them. Again.
This time, they get a bat and the latest willing arm for their new game management model – middling starters are out. In are 3-4 big arms @ 2 or 3 innings per game. This innovation will become a trend widely copied.
Big Poison
So many comments. So few people know anything about the Pirates end. Glasnow was only in the majors because he had no options left. He was only used in mop up role. He just can’t consistently throw strikes. Sorry people, he’s just not that good.
Meadows admittedly is an interesting prospect, but he hasn’t done anything above AA other than 1 good week in the majors. Once teams got a book on him as a hitter, he stopped hitting. Also, for anyone who saw him play, he is not a CF in the majors. He will be a useful mlb player. Not an all star.
Glasnow will never be better than replacement level.
Archer has the 4th most innings and Ks over the last 5 years in mlb. 2 time all star.
This trade looks lopsided to me. No wonder huntingdon looks like the cat who swallowed the canary.
Phanatic 2022
If the pirates can work their pitching magic and get archer to cut down on his fastball usage then this could be a great pick up.