The Brewers and Reds are maintaining “ongoing” talks about the potential for a Matt Harvey swap, tweets MLB.com’s Jon Morosi, but outside of a move to send out their lone impending free agent, is seems the Reds may have a quiet deadline. President of baseball ops Dick Williams told MLB.com’s Mark Sheldon yesterday that “other teams aren’t spinning their wheels talking about players we’re not interested in moving at this point,” and there’s even been talk of Cincinnati adding pieces controlled beyond the 2018 season in an effort to return to contending next season.
Williams, in fact, confirmed as much to C. Trent Rosecrans of The Athletic on Thursday (subscription required), plainly stating that the Reds have inquired on players they “see as fits for us in the next few years.” Rosecrans likens the possibility to Cincinnati’s 2009 acquisition of Scott Rolen as a sub-.500 team at the deadline (and takes an interesting look back at that scenario, talking to Williams, former GM Walt Jocketty and first baseman Joey Votto about that swap). “We think our window is opening up and we may not be able to wait until the offseason to acquire a player we like,” said Williams before going on to acknowledge that starting pitching is an area of need.
Of course, to simply call the rotation an area of need would be underselling the importance of bolstering the starting staff in Cincinnati. Reds starters have pitched to a combined 5.25 ERA that ranks among the 15 worst performances of any collective starting staff in Major League Baseball dating back to the 2010 season. The only Reds starters with an ERA under 5.00 are Matt Harvey, who will be traded within the next few days, and Tyler Mahle (4.53). The Cincinnati rotation ranks last in the Majors in FIP (5.30), 23rd in xFIP (4.57) and 26th in SIERA (4.61).
To be sure, the Reds have youth on their side in many cases, as none of Mahle, Luis Castillo or Sal Romano is even 26 years old yet (nor are Triple-A options Robert Stephenson, Cody Reed and Jose Lopez). Nonetheless, it’s still eye-opening to see a team without even one starting pitcher performing at a league-average level begin to discuss adding pieces with an eye toward contending in the very near future. And given that multiple teams in the National League Central appear well-positioned to maintain some success heading into 2019, the road back to competitive baseball in Cincinnati looks all the more difficult to navigate in the short term.
That said, The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal is the latest to tweet that dealing Harvey might be the only trade the Reds end up making. Cincinnati is “inclined to keep” affordable relievers like Raisel Iglesias, David Hernandez and Jared Hughes, each of whom has been at least speculated upon as a trade candidate.
It’s not entirely clear who the Reds even have eyes on attempting to acquire. The starting pitching market, generally speaking, has a dearth of quality controllable arms available in the first place. Rays righty Chris Archer is the most prominent name with a seemingly realistic chance of being moved, especially now that the Tigers are even unlikelier to deal Michael Fulmer when he’s on the disabled list. Noah Syndergaard and Jacob deGrom, of course, have been prominently mentioned, though most reports indicate that the Mets are planning to hold onto both. Clubs have been inquiring on Orioles right-handers Kevin Gausman and Dylan Bundy, but there’s been little indication that the O’s are open to moving either. The rebuilding Royals, meanwhile, reportedly have “no intention” of trading southpaw Danny Duffy.
The field may expand when looking at players controlled only through the 2019 season (e.g. Zack Wheeler, Kyle Gibson), though should be wary of surrendering much in the way of future assets in exchange for a player controlled for just one more season, given the uncertainty surrounding their current starters and the strength of the teams atop their division.
todda1
Cincinnati’s front office might be the worst in MLB.
petfoodfella
It’s like you’ve never heard of the New York Mets.
metvibes
Hahahahahahahaha
Fire Jon Daniels
“Hold my beer” -Jon Daniels
Weather Report of Atlanta
Jon Daniels is a weird way to spell Wilpon.
Weather Report of Atlanta
Also, yes, it’s pretty tacky that the Braves franchise was essentially a tax write-off for Ted Turner when he sold them. Can’t be too hypocritical.
getright11
Wilpon isnt in FO. Hes an owner.
Weather Report of Atlanta
Thanks for the reminder.
/s
wkkortas
To paraphrase what Bill James once said, the Reds front office can binge-watch the Superman movies and not be able to tell you who Clark Kent is.
Ty1990
Pretty ignorant comment coming from someone who probably knows nothing about the current state of the organization. The Reds have made mostly good decisions in the past 3 years, especially when it comes to drafting. Their main problem is their lack of ability to develop starting pitching, which we all know is one of the hardest things to do in baseball. I know it’s easy to just scroll through the headlines and current standings and make an assumption, but maybe trying reading up on the team first.
todda1
Well Ty, look at them trading Chapman away for virtually nothing. Joey Votto’s overpriced extension and now they’re talking about being buyers even though they’re in last place. I almost forgot to mention Homer Bailey being one of the worst (if not the worst) starting pitchers in baseball. Theres probably a couple more idiotic moves I’m not even thinking of.
dhud
And conveniently leaving out all the good moves
jekporkins
I can add to this. They asked for the world for Billy Hamilton in the offseason and now have a 5th outfielder in CF. They haven’t traded Scooter Garrett for so-badly-needed pitching. They never traded Duvall when his value was still good for, you guessed it, pitching, knowing he was padding his stats in that stadium.
FromTheCheapSeats
Watch Billy Hamilton play on a daily basis. He is without question the best defensive outfielder in baseball. Does his OBP suck? Of course. But understand that if he ever figures it out and hits even .270, he’s an all star. I know that’s a big “if”, but it’s not all that unlikely. Up to this point, the Reds would have been “selling low” on Hamilton.
There’s context to the Chapman deal that you’re ignoring. When the Reds dealt him, there was a very real possibility of him being suspended for the entire season over the domestic violence case. In the end it appears they panicked.
Votto overpaid? Lol. That may be the case four years from now. Up to this point, though, Votto has earned every nickel of that contract.
Decius
Chapman hurt his value by firing a gun in his garage. Kinda hurt the Reds chance to get something decent for him. Maybe they could have waited for it to blow over but the Reds front office isn’t as bad as people portray them. Just people overreacting to headlines instead of reading the whole story.
bleedreds
My favorite idiotic move was Alfredo Simon to the Tigers for a dude named Suarez. I mean, we had Todd Frazier! Why did we need a 3B?
Ty1990
Homer had Tommy John, but before that, he had thrown two no hitters. While the Chapman trade stings, him shooting up his house and facing domestic violence charges certainly didn’t help his cause. As for Duvall, first off lets credit the Reds for making him the decent major league player he was for the last two years. He was just a throw in from the Giants who had completely given up on him. Lets look at the good now, shall we.. They signed their All-Star Suarez to one of the best contracts in baseball, they picked up Matt Harvey and turned his season around, and have probably drafted better than any other team in the last three years. I’m not saying that hey are the best organization, but they are far from the bottom.
Who’s your team anyways?
floridagators15
Do you work in the Reds’ front office? Glad to know what people were offering for Duvall.
Who is Scooter Garrett?
bigturtlemachine
Scooter Gennett, whom they acquired off waivers for nothing? Just a terrible move, wasn’t it?
todda1
My God you guys are defensive I actually like the Reds, just not a fan of most of their moves.
Cardinals17
When the Cardinals let Walt Jockerty go to Cincinnati, is when the Cardinals started their down fall. When Jeff Luhnov left for Houston, the slide became even steeper. Then, when Tony LaRussa left, the Cardinals hit rock bottom because John Mozeliak had no one else that had the pull to bring in Star players to the Cardinals!! Mozeliak assembled a 25 man roster of better than average utility bench players over the next few years as their Star players from the glory years retired or were traded. Star players weren’t coming to St. Louis because the stars don’t see the Cardinals as contenders anymore. Over the past 4 years, impending Free Agents have noticed that the Cardinals front office and owners won’t make any moves at the trading deadlines for impact players to aide them to a playoff position. Star Free Agents also notice the Cardinals only sign cheap declining players during the off season such as recent pick ups of Dexter Fowler, Brett Cecil, Holland, Masterson, Leone,
redsfan48
Simon for Suárez. Duvall as a throw-in to the Leake deal. Castillo for Straily. Straily and Gennett waiver claims. DeSclafani for a past-prime Mat Latos. Should I go on?
mbauza25
Amen
ThatBallwasBryzzoed
Baltimore is pretty bad. Pedro Strop and Jake Arrieta for Scott Feldman and Steve Clevenger. Pretty sure the latter two are out of baseball now. The former are world series champions, cy young winner. And just overall the best teammate anyone could ask for.
augold5
Matt Harvey for Keon Broxton
realgone2
Why would anyone want Harvey?
ray_derek
Because he is very affordable salary wise and likely wouldn’t cost much. He’s certainly worth taking a chance on, low risk and can help a contending team.
ray_derek
I’d prefer someone like Gibson or Wheeler, but those two might cost a bit more prospect wise. Milwaukee hates giving up anything of value in July, so this is why they are connected to Harvey.
Pablo
Gibson just raised his stock for any NL team. Beating Boston 8 IP 1 run allowed. Only three runs over 20 innings between Yankees and Boston. For any team looking at the post season… those are some valuable numbers.
ray_derek
They have to make a decision whether to go for it or not, can’t go halfway. The Cubs aren’t going anywhere for a while and STL and Pitt will be back. This might be the year to go all in, the east looks weak, LA and CHC is down. What is Milwaukee going to decide? Are they ok with being a wild card contender occasionally or do they want to make a move to try and win the NL? i personally hope they continue to sit on their hands, but time will tell.
SilvioDante
Brewers made a couple of great FA adds w Cain and Yelich, but when it comes to really upping the ante they always seem to shop at the discount store. Should have gone hard during the off-season at Arrieta to compliment the Cain/Yelich moves, but they backed off. Now Matt Harvey? Really? Ugh!
augold5
So you pick the one FA SP signing that has somewhat worked out. Hindsight is 20/20. People also said they should sign Darvish/Odorizzi/Lynn and look how that worked out. They signed/traded for them because they were low risk and controllable for multiple years. You have to think differently as a small market team. You can’t just throw money away for a risky SP signing.
ray_derek
but if you don’t get risky, you’ll never get over the hump. they’re aren’t winning the NL getting the production they’re getting now from 2B & SS. They’re not winning the NL with a pitching staff of Anderson, Chacin, Guerra, Miley & Peralta. To bank of anything from Jimmy nelson this year would be pure insanity as well
mikeyst13
And yet they are #5 in NL in ERA and #3 in BA against for starters and #3 in ERA and #1 in BA against as a team. Just because they don’t have the big names doesn’t mean they can win the NL with those guys taking the hill. The much bigger issue is the production from the middle infield and catchers.
ray_derek
September and October baseball is much different than the regular season. In a must win game, (wild Card or game 7) are you going to feel comfortable with Chase Anderson on the mound? Seriously?
augold5
With the current bullpen, yes I feel extremely confident.
mikeyst13
Obviously you prefer to have a true Ace horse on the mound in a situation like that, but it’s not like they can’t win without them. There’s a long list of ace’s that have struggled come playoff time. And where were they going to get said ace? They got outbid on Darvish (thank God), they were not convinced on Arrieta and he’s been decent but not great. Lynn? Cobb? Odrorizzi? Those were the other “big free agent” pitchers out there and JO is the only one that may even crack the Brewers rotation right now.
ray_derek
good luck then. I sure wouldn’t feel comfortable with any of those 5 starting.
ray_derek
bring Hader in the game in the 3rd?
augold5
What are you talking about? Anderson, Chacin and Guerra have been great pitchers through about 5 innings. Have you even watched the Brewers play this year?
mikeyst13
Well it’s not like I’m saying they don’t need one or wouldn’t love to have one, but it’s not as simple as just saying that they should have made a bigger move when there wasn’t really a move to make. I think I’m just as or more comfortable with Guerra or maybe even Chacin as with Wheeler, Harvey, Hamels, Eovaldi, etc that were made available this season.
pdubs2907
People act like the Brewers are done with the rebuild, when they’re not. They’re being patient because they’re not yet a contender. It’s always been about 2019 and beyond
Melchez
People thought the nl east nationals were a lock this year… the nl central might be wide open next season.
getright11
Lol
sadosfan
A rotation worse than the Os? Amazing
mymaus
I know there are not too many teams that need a 2nd baseman (typical Reds bad luck) but they have to find a way to get something for Scooter before the start of next season. I love the guy but he’s going to make a ton of money (for him) next year & the Reds are loaded at that position. Could they package SG + pay his salary + international bonus money to Boston for one of their pitchers that are in the top 10 of their organization?
ray_derek
I don’t think the Reds have any interest in dealing Scooter. Think they view him as the long term answer.
bigredsfan41017
I heard they may sign Scooter long term as they don’t know how Nick Senzel will bounce back after surgery and there isn’t a need for a 2nd basemen right now!
bleedreds
Why are people so enamored with Nick Senzel? The Reds should be in build mode now, not acquire and see if the dude can play mode. When 3/4 of your infield make the All-Star team, you keep that together. I’d dangle a package featuring Senzel out on the market in the off season for a legit SP. The Reds also just drafted another infielder. I don’t want to hear about the infielders playing OF either. Remember when Votto was brought up and he played OF? That made Adam Dunn look like a gold glover out there.
stubby66
I see a Harvey for Wilkerson and Broxton trade only because we need the 40 man roster space this winter. Also have a question is it possible for Dubon be recalled for September 1st so he can be put on 60 day dl?
mikeyst13
Wilkerson and Broxton seems steep for a guy that was on the scrap heap a couple months ago and just got hit hard 2 of his last 3 outings again. I realize that they don’t really have a big need for either of those guys, but still no point in giving them away just to free up room on the 40 man.
redsfan54
Seem steep!!? Wilkerson and Broxton are both trash. I would hope the reds would never take that deal.
mikeyst13
Wilkerson has a 1..82 ERA, .230 BAA, and 1.34 WHIP pitching in Colorado Springs in the PCL, one of the worst possible places to try to pitch. Broxton is a 20/20 guy who plays good defense, granted with too many Ks and a low average. How much more do you really expect to get for a rental reclamation project with an ERA north of 5 and coming off an 8 run in 3 2/3 debacle?
dewssox79
broxton wont be in deal
Cubbie Steve
I see the Brewers are going all in and putting the full court press on the Cubs with a possible Matt Harvey addition? Be still, little heart…
I wish somebody would make an animated reality cartoon based on Kato’s tweets the next couple of months.
ray_derek
My god, Kato is amazing on tweeter isn’t he..?
snotrocket
Would a contender really want Matt Harvey?
Say Hey Now Kid
I think the reds should hold on to Harvey and try to resign him at years end. They won’t get anything significant from a trade, Harvey needs to stay in a small market and the reds can sign him fairly cheap but still might get something out of him
ray_derek
They can trade him and resign him as well, no reason to keep him. he’s not going to resign only because they didn’t trade him.
bigredsfan41017
True and his agent is Scott Boris who will demand him test the open market!
IronBallsMcGinty
I’m enjoying all this trade/discussion within division this year.
Cardinals17
Mozeliak of the Cardinals, has burned all of his bridges with other GM’s and President of Baseball operations on other teams. It’s refreshing to see other teams within the division working with each other!!!!!
hiflew
I think too much is being made of the Reds pitching. When the Cubs rebuilt, they had horrible pitching, so they signed veterans Jon Lester and Dan Haren to help with the breakouts of Jake Arrietta and Kyle Hendricks. When the Astros were bad, Bud Norris was their best starter. Keuchel didn’t break out until the year they signed Scott Feldman and Collin McHugh as vet starters. Before the Royals had their rebuild, they added Jeremy Guthrie and Bruce Chen to help with Danny Duffy. The Phillies added Jake Arrietta this offseason to help their young starters take the next step and it really shows in Aaron Nola.
If the Reds can get a FA veteran starter or two this offseason, they will be fine too. It dosn’t even have to be a great one, but it needs to be an older one to help guide the 25 year olds in the rotation. They have tons of offense and have been much better overall since Harvey was acquired. I am thinking additions of people like Drew Pomeranz or Gio Gonzalez or Tyson Ross would help them become the next surprise team.
RePete
I agree with that. Buy a starter or 2. Part of the reason I would want them to trade Gennett is just to have the money to put towards pitching.
robertj53086
Why don’t the Brewers give Jeff Suppan a call, I bet he will come out of retirement for them
SueJen
Reds front office works within the financial constraints placed on them. Reds have drafted nicely and have 3 of the top prospects in baseball. The pitching obviously needs to improve. The starters are young and learning. We have great hitting. GM got Scooter for zip, Peraza, Schebler, Suarez. Not bad. Red fans be patient. Better times are coming. Oh. We still have Votto! Oh Duvall was a steal and an RBI machine.