10:03pm: The Phillies “would include” young righty Adonis Medina in a deal for Machado, per MLB.com’s Jon Morosi. Medina, a top-100 prospect, is a player the Orioles have long been rumored to have interest in. If he’s in the package, it could make the Phils “well-positioned” to land Machado, writes Morosi, though surely there’s still time for other organizations to boost their offers as well.
3:55pm: The Orioles are getting “very close” to reaching an agreement on a Manny Machado trade, reports Roch Kubatko of MASNsports.com (via Twitter). However, despite a report of a “handshake agreement” between the Orioles and Phillies by Barstool Sports, Kubatko adds that there’s no deal between the two teams in place. To the contrary, Kubatko notes that both the Brewers and the Dodgers remain involved in the Machado market. Brittany Ghiroli of MLB.com agrees, tweeting that “numerous” sources tell her that rumors regarding an agreement with the Phillies are “untrue.”
To be sure, it’d be strange for any club, especially one in the Orioles’ position, to effectively close off bidding 36 hours in advance of completing a trade when a better offer could come floating in at any time. An arrangement of that nature would come with little in the form of precedent. The inevitable Machado trade will be a franchise-altering moment for the Orioles, and cutting off negotiations this far in advance would be a downright bizarre means of going about it. By agreeing to a delayed agreement, they’d leave no room for the Dodgers, Brewers or any other club — the Yankees, D-backs, Braves, Indians and others have been involved to varying extents — to top whatever is currently being offered by the Phillies.
That said, it’s true that the league generally frowns on news of this magnitude breaking during All-Star festivities. It’s certainly possible that both sides are optimistic about something coming together shortly after the All-Star Game, and none of this is to say that the Phils won’t ultimately come away as the “winners” of the Machado sweepstakes, so to speak. But for the time being, it’s only logical to assume that the bidding for Machado remains open as the the Orioles seek to extract the best possible package of young talent.
Regardless of where Machado ultimately lands, the timeline depicted this lengthy saga may indeed reach its end shortly after the All-Star Game. Reports over the past week have indicated that the O’s are loath to trade Machado prior to the Midsummer Classic, where he’ll represent them in Washington D.C. as the American League’s starting shortstop. Jim Bowden of The Athletic took matters a bit further this morning, tweeting that Machado is “expected to be traded” after Tuesday’s All-Star Game and before the regular season resumes play on Friday.
As one can imagine, the rumor cycle is beginning to wear on even Machado himself. Speaking to reporters during the media hour for today’s events, Machado said that if he is ultimately going to be traded, he “100 percent” hopes it is over with sooner rather than later (Twitter link via The Athletic’s Jayson Stark). “To not answer these questions anymore, that would be good,” said Machado. The infielder also once again acknowledged that he has “no say” in where he plays following a trade (Twitter link via Fancred’s Jon Heyman), but his preference in free agency will be to pursue opportunities where he’s able to play shortstop (Twitter link via Ghiroli).
waxbuddie
Enough talk, trade him
reevewashere
There going to wait to let him participate in the allstar game.
joshb600
That’s what I was thinking but they could just trade him and let Chris Davis replace him!
dimitrios in la
Chris Davis at short is a wonderful idea!
ASapsFables
Yes! Then Davis’ contract can be the benchmark for all current MLB shortstops, at least until Machado obliterates it along with A-Rod’s two past deals this offseason.
Rwm102600
Could he really hurt the team any more at SS than he does in the batters box?
RedRooster
I agree, Michelle’s report is dabomb!
joepanikatthedisco
“munth”
ray_derek
*They’re
imacwhou
Hurry up already
outinleftfield
Wednesday.
hohnav21
Agreed!!!
BrianB
Ugh the Phillies! LOL Gross! Smells of a rental and then Philly dissappears LOL
Ronk325
The Phillies have a ton of money to spend so if they’re trading for Machado now that would signal they have every intention of signing him in the offseason
sals029
A lot easier said than done, regardless of how much money they have to offer.
RedRooster
Trading for him isn’t a prerequisite for signing him!
flippinbats79
It definitely helps. If you’re looking at free agent destinations, it’s much more attractive to go to a place you’ve already played.
DodgersBaseball23
Yeah as long as you enjoyed your time there. If not it could kill your shot to sign him.
Boston2AZ
Sometimes, maybe. Randy Johnson didn’t, neither did Jon Lester or JD Martinez.
RedRooster
That’s not the type of thing you give up top 100 prospects for. Phillies will have to pay close to market rate either way.
stymeedone
Cespedes did.
ASapsFables
Somebody will be paying the price. It might just as well be a contender like the Phillies who will have a better chance of signing him this offseason than the other two primary bidders in Los Angeles and Milwaukee. Whichever team lands Machado will also enhance their postseason chances this year as well.
Ronk325
Johnson, Lester, and Martinez are terrible comparisons because the teams they were traded to didn’t have the money to resign them. The Phillies will be capable of at least matching if not topping any offer from another team and they have a young competitive team that plays in a hitters park. Add in the fact that he would be able to stay at SS there and the Phillies easily become one of his top suitors
RedRooster
@stymeedone the Mets traded for Cespedes because they needed a slugger for their playoff drive and he was the best one available, not because they thought they would be able to sign him.
RedRooster
@Ronk325 that also means the Phillies have enough money to sign him if they don’t trade for him so they’re better off waiting until the offseason and signing him for nothing but money.
bigkempin
The last 3 WS winners had big name rentals that helped them win a title (Cueto, Chapman, Verlander)
Ronk325
@redrooster I understand what you’re saying but the Phillies are currently in 1st place and have gotten awful offensive production from their SS’s this year. Machado improves the team now and having him for a couple months might improve their chances of resigning him in the offseason
RedRooster
@Ronk325 if you want him for this year then trade whatever you think two months of him (plus the playoffs) is worth. Trading for him won’t improve their chances of re-signing him one bit.
Phillies2017
Oakland is a small market team and Arizona had an already exorbitant payroll and is an NL team which wouldn’t make sense to pay jd
I dont have an answer for Johnson though.
Ronk325
How can you say for sure that trading for Machado now wouldn’t increase the Phillies chances of resigning him. If he enjoys his time in Philly and they offer him a deal comparable to their competitors that could definitely work in their favor
Phillies2017
Verlander wasnt a rental
RedRooster
Because they’ll still have to pay him basically market rate. There’s no reason to give up top 100 prospects on top of that.
lord vincent
How do you know that? Are you his agent or family?
Ronk325
Again I understand what you mean but at the same time the Phillies are trying to improve their team for this year as well. If they can get Machado without giving up Sixto Sanchez or Adonis Medina it would have to be seen as a win
RedRooster
@lord vincent yeah I am
RedRooster
@Ronk325 then give up whatever you feel 2 months of Machado + the playoffs are worth. If he re-signs then that’s just gravy.
outinleftfield
Teams that have traded for an All Star quality FA to be over the past 30 years have resigned them 12.3% of the time. The other 29 teams 3..02% of the time. Only the Yankees have signed as much as 5% of those FA.
RedRooster
Yes and what percent of the time has a free agent to be taken a significant discount to sign with the team that traded for him?
Oh and 12.3% + 3.02% is only 15.32%. Who signs them the other 84.68% of the time?
Woodlawn
Lol. Philly ain’t NY. Machado has Yankees written all over him. No chance he resigns in philly.
augold5
Lol why don’t you take 87.7 divided by 29… its called logic, you should try it sometime.
Ronk325
I’m not a Phillies fan and I have no idea what the Orioles would accept in return for 2 months of Machado. Also why do assume the Phillies contract offer will be significantly less than other teams? The Phillies are capable of giving him $35 million a year if that’s what it would take. Also the Yankees and Dodgers who will presumably be the other top suitors won’t be able to let him play SS which works in the Phillies favor
RedRooster
@Ronk325 The only way your argument works is if the Phillies trading for Machado is a prerequisite for giving him $35m/yr in free agency.
RedRooster
@augold5 we both know that 87.7% is not evenly distributed among the other 29 teams. And that still doesn’t answer my question of what % of the time the player takes a significant discount to sign with the team that traded him. Rich Hill and Yoenis Cespedes don’t help your argument because the Dodgers and Mets outbid everyone else to sign them.
Ronk325
@redrooster I don’t understand what you’re getting at now. $35m/yr is what it will probably take to sign Machado and the Phillies could surely offer him that much if that’s what it takes. They have one of the lowest payrolls in the league right now and also one of the best tv deals. They have plenty of money to go around
RedRooster
Yes and trading for him in advance of his free agency is not a prerequisite for paying him all that money.
Ronk325
If they’re giving up prospects for Machado now you would have to think they’re going to do whatever it takes to sign him in free agency it’s as simple as that
RedRooster
They don’t have to trade for him to do that. Mmmkay?
Donald seay
Verlander was not a rental!
Ronk325
Trading for him now goes back to my point from earlier. The Phillies have had terrible offensive production from their shortstops this year. They are currently in 1st place so trading for Machado now strengthens their team for the rest of this year while also giving them a potential leg up on signing himin free agency. Now was that so hard for you to understand
RedRooster
Then again, trade whatever you feel Machado for the rest of this season plus a potential playoff run is worth. And if he signs elsewhere after the season I better not see one Phillies fan complaining about it on here. There is no formal or informal agreement that he will stay. And if they do sign him it won’t suddenly make the trade better because they didn’t have to trade for him to do that.
fox471 Dave
Phillies already including Medina.
justinept
Any team signing Machado will likely have to pay above market value because that’s typically how free agency works…
Since Machado is likely going to the highest bidder, Philly trading for him now only helps them if he was previously against signing with Philly for any amount of money – and somehow playing for them for two months opened his eyes to the possibility.
And while Machado gives them a leg up to making the playoffs, I don’t think this deal would make them Phillies better than either the Cubs or Dodgers. If the idea is to win a WS, giving up prospects to acquire a guy who likely won’t get them there is probably a bad idea.
Bryzzo2016
Right, he’ll be able to play where he wants while still getting the contract he wants. If he doesn’t want to stay in Philly, it won’t matter if they can afford him or not.
jh8913
Lol not many people enjoy their time in philly
ASapsFables
Try telling that to many of their HOF players and those who enjoyed World Series championships in “The City of Brotherly Love” in 1980 and 2008!
Phillies2017
If you play hard, the city loves you. Look at Hunter Pence. He was here for a year and had a really good relationship with the fans
justinept
Most all pro athletes play hard. You’re confusing success with effort. If he has a bad August, Phillies fans will turn on him in a nano second – and then they’ll claim he isn’t trying hard enough …
sportsjunkie24
They will after the asg otherwise the orioles would be all star less
jekporkins
Translation: He will be traded to the Phillies, but they will wait until after the All-Star game so he can technically play as an Oriole in the starting lineup.
tharrie0820
So he can play at all. I’d you get named an all star and get traded you’re ineligible to play
ASapsFables
That’s not necessarily true anymore. Machado could still play if he were traded within the same league. If he’s traded out of the AL as it now appears, it would be up to MLB to decide his eligibility. It’s a moot point now anyway with a trade likely to be consummated after tomorrow’s contest.
bigguccisosa300
No you’re not. You just wear a weird mlb jersey
justinept
The last guy it happened to was Samardzija. But that was also the era of the game “counting.” I could understand the rule then. Why wouldn’t Samardzija, who was playing on a damn good A’s team st that point, serve up batting practice fastballs to help get the AL home field? That would’ve been a disaster for baseball.
But since the stipulation is gone, the rule should be, too. Not sure it is. But it should be.
Pedro Cerrano's Voodoo
Thinkin you’re right.
LongTimeListener1stTimecaller
He’ll be traded directly after the All Star Game a la Boogie Cousins
Mattimeo09
Alright final guess time. Who’s taking home Machado?
Yelsnit
Orioles?
MetsYankeesRedSox
Rockford Peaches!
He can take over for Marla Hooch.
treday
I don’t know man, sounds like a downgrade for Rockford, that Marla Hooch can really swing it
GareBear
Hooch is batting .420, definitely a downgrade
Yankeepride88
I’m from Rockford. Nothing is a downgrade for us.
MetsYankeesRedSox
Yeah she’s prettier than Manny too
justinept
You got Magic Waters. Which is nice – when it’s clean.
justinept
Watch the directors cut some time. Marla comes back and gets traded to Racine.
Then, during the WS, Dottie takes out Marla with a hard slide at second base – unaware that Marla was pregnant. She’s stretchered off the field. The Peaches turn on Dottie for this, and it’s why she “quits” during the WS.
Yea – the directors cut is dark as f***.
Jimmy also tries to get on Dottie. But that’s a story for another thread.
ronnyalton
I dont give a sh/t ifhe goes to the Twins at this point. Trade him already and move on from the article space.
Joe Kerr
This hasn’t been nearly as bad as pretty much the entire off-season.
mrnatewalter
You realize you aren’t obligated to read any articles on this site, right? Unless you pay the bills, their article choices shouldn’t concern you.
bababooeytoyall
The team who gets Machado better hope he signs with them. Especially the Phillies who are not even ready to compete against anyone this year. Why not see if you could sign him in the off-season rather than send off top prospects for a rental?
Caseys.Partner
“The team who gets Machado better hope he signs with them”
If the price paid reflects that then you have a Front Office that is incompetent and needs to be cleaned out.
Machado is a two month rental and whatever is sent to the Orioles should reflect that and nothing more.
In addition, Zach Britton is completely worthless so tossing him in means nothing. Everything going to Baltimore is 100% for two months of Machado.
Bruin1012
Completely disagree that Britton is completely worthless.
stl_cards16 2
Yep. And even if the team that trades for him does re sign him, they still traded for 2 months of him.
Wally-the-green-monster
Worthless is a strong statement. He’s pitched better recently.
raef715
if Zach Britton is completely worthless, then what is the proper description for for Adam Morgan right now?
if the Phils are going to get Machado, may as well get Britton as well.
osfandan
You are wrong on too many things for me to correct.
I’ll focus on Britton….as many as 8 teams have made offers. So yeah, not worthless.
vtadave
Britton has been lights out in his last seven outings and has been beyond elite when healthy. He has plenty of value.
sals029
Britton is obviously not worthless, some will give up a reasonable amount of capital for him.
cecildawg
Some, use words as thrown stones. ‘Worthless’ is just such a word. We often times call others what we are. We are too close to ourselves to have a proper prospective. Nothing to be ashamed about. We all do this. The elimination of name calling might be a good place to start that arduous journey towards self- actualization. Just saying..
Michael Chaney
Gandhi, is that you?
RedRooster
Casey is right in this instance. If you are trading for Machado, you are trading for the amount of control he comes with. You don’t give up extra value in the trade because you think you’ll be able to sign him.
mgrap84
Britton is far from worthless. He can instantly help any bullpen
mstrchef13
Dude, Did Casey used to work for the O’s and got fired? Is that why you have such anger with them? Nothing else seems to explain your repeated comments about how bad the O’s players are, all completely wrong by the way. The team isn’t good but they have some good players that other teams want, and you sound like a bitter old “get off my lawn” kinda man about it.
Phillies2017
Worthless is a strong word, but I wouldn’t want him. He’s financially expensive and has a long history of injury issues while struggling with his control the past 2 years. Not a bad pitcher, but not somebody I’m willing to trade for at this time. I’d much rather get Familia.
oldleftylong
The Phillies are in phirst place. The Manny makes them a legit contender for the WS.
Gavin B
Haha your kidding….right?
DannyQ3913
They’re legit. Line up Nola and Arietta against any other top 2 NL playoff starters.
Gavin B
I’m not saying there a bad team by any means, but 2 starters is not a thing to be so excited about… a lineup like the Cubs or Brewers would do plenty damage against those two….
outinleftfield
The first place Phillies are not ready to compete? OK. If you say so.
Gavin B
Did I say they weren’t ready to compete? Look more carefully. I just don’t agree they are a WS contender. Good team, but not a WS contender
Dtownbrown608
David Stearns ima never forgive you for this if you do.
ohmy
For Stearns TO trade for Machado or NOT to?
Dtownbrown608
Hell no.
1988wasalongtimeago
Pull the trigger already
Djones246890
I’m really tired of hearing about this.
dkramer
Anyone else nauseated by the Machado watch? This is up there with “the decision”. Just get the trade done already so we can move on. FTR my pick is the Phils.
osfandan
Try having the next few years of your franchise rest on it…
BlueSkyLA
I’m wondering why anyone would read MLBTR and say they are sick of seeing MLBTR.
dkramer
Cause you can only regurgitate the same article in so many ways before it gets redundant.
tharrie0820
I kind agree. should probably just add updates to existing articles instead of making a new article every 7.2 hours. especially when it’s never anything new
wiggysf
Well I guess it lets more people comment and have conversations if the comments reset. I don’t want to scroll all the way down the article.
Still dumb though.
RedRooster
Because they haven’t told us anything we didn’t already know regarding Manny Machado since like December.
BlueSkyLA
Now that certainly isn’t true. In December Machado wasn’t even available, and by no means were we talking about trading partners let alone them being apparently narrowed down to three likely teams. Even if it was true, this is still a rumors site, so if you find the reporting of rumors to be tedious or troubling it wouldn’t be difficult to avoid the personal distress you seem to be experiencing.
RedRooster
He was available. The Orioles didn’t trade him because they weren’t satisfied with what was being offered.
BlueSkyLA
And of course the Dodgers were totally in at that point because…?
You’ve been predicting all along that he would not be traded, so it seems to me now that it appears highly likely that he will be traded, you’ve kind of backed yourself into a corner.
RedRooster
I’m not going to believe that he’ll be traded until he is. Peter Angelos will have some bogus reason to veto the deal.
orioles667083
Oh he is gone, it’s a shame it couldn’t be trade now, get pieces and bring him back…this team only coughs up money for guys that fail…Glenn Davis, Albert Belle, Ubaldo Jimenez and Chris Davis..did I miss anyone
lowtalker1
Nothing will be official until after the asg.
mack22 2
An arm & a leg for a 2 month rental? As long as it’s not the Dodgers I don’t care
Takachulo
As a Dodger fan, I agree with this.
atomicfront
Yeah the Dodgers probably finish fourth in their division even with Machado.
Ryan Hilson
David Stearns walk away unless you have a deal in place to resign him
tharrie0820
I’m sure he is both reading MLBTR comments and also comes here for advice
RedRooster
If re-signing him is a must for you then just wait until the offseason. Trading for him isn’t going to make it any easier.
start_wearing_purple
Not necessarily. By average age the Phillies have the second youngest team in the league. By trading for Machado the Phillies might hope Machado will see himself as a leader of a potential dynasty.
RedRooster
No smart front office would trade top 100 prospects to MAYBE have a marginally better chance of signing a guy.
start_wearing_purple
Trading for Machado moves the Phillies from a below average offensive team to at least an average one. Trading for Machado bolsters the Phils chances to not just make the playoffs but to go further in them. A couple of months extra trying to prove to Machado that Philly is the place he wants to be for the next 10 years would be icing on the cake. for the Phils.
RedRooster
It sounds to me like getting him long-term is a must for the Phillies, which trading for him simply doesn’t do.
start_wearing_purple
I don’t see getting Machado to sign long term is a must for the Phillies. The Phillies wouldn’t be the first team to make a gamble that an expensive 2-3 month rental could be what their team needs to win a WS.
All I’m saying is I believe if you take into account the Phillies team age, how well they’ve done this season, and the likelihood that they have a lot of financial resources to throw around that the Phillies might see Macahdo as a boost for this season as well as a way to get their foot in the door to sign him long term after he declares for FA. The Phillies might be willing to go a little extra now if they believe in the offseason that if they offer the same money as another team that Machado might choose to stay in Philly because he potentially likes it there.
RedRooster
So basically you are saying that giving up a top 100 prospect is a prerequisite for outbidding everyone else for Machado.
proof2006
No one said that. You’re talking about different things. The prospects have nothing to do with the contract. Obviously you personally know Manny, and know he can’t be influenced by playing for a team in the playoffs this year.
RedRooster
Yes I do know him and no he can’t be influenced by that.
start_wearing_purple
Now I’m not sure if you just don’t want to read what I’ve said or you’re just deliberately misstating my point. So let’s break it down even further:
1) The Phillies are a young team that was supposed to not be playoff viable for 2 years however they’re right now they have a good shot at the playoffs.
2) One big problem is their offense.
3) A top offense rental is on the market that could give the Phillies a stronger chance at not just making the playoffs but also making it further than the WC or DS.
4) The Phillies are also a team that have spent vast amounts of money in the past and have been rumored to be waiting to spend some time soon.
5) Machado is barely 26 and a solid player, the kind a team with resources might want to make a centerpiece of their franchise.
6a) So if the Phillies already see Machado as a good upgrade this year and 6b) A potential target for the future then 6c) There might be some additional motive to get him in a Phillies uniform with the hopes that winning in Philly with a team where he’s a leader will tip the scales when 6d) The offseason arrives and the team needs to not just pitch him on the money but also on the ambiance.
RedRooster
Again. 6c) and 6d) are not the type of thing you trade a top 100 prospect in baseball for. If the Phillies do trade Machado and he signs elsewhere after this season I expect to see ZERO Phillies fans complaining about it on here. And him signing won’t justify the trade unless you can prove that he wouldn’t have signed if they hadn’t traded for him.
stymeedone
All of the teams that are looking now see him as helping now. Some also see where signing him could help next year and beyond. Nobody in play is only hoping to sign him for next year.
yanks02026
Starting to think this handshake agreement is probably true. The big trade rumor guys haven’t said a word lately about machado. Which is odd considering they’ve tweeted nonstop about machado in the last week
RedRooster
Why would the Orioles want to do a handshake agreement? Sounds pointless to me.
start_wearing_purple
A handshake agreement is pretty much meaningless. It’s possible the O’s have the framework of a deal in place that just needs tweaking or their waiting until Wednesday to announce or it could all be a leak to get in final bids from other teams. Until an actual announcement is made there is no trade.
bobtillman
I’m upset because MLBTR is taking up space about Machado rumors instead of Blake Swihart rumors…….
wiggysf
Yes, but does Blake Swihart draw rave reviews at catcher or the outfield?
Leemitt
I see a three team trade: Machado goes to the Cowboys, DeMarcus Lawrence goes to the Nuggets, and Isaiah Thomas goes to the Orioles. Who says no?
Michael Chaney
I guess you could say the Orioles would get the short end of that deal
jeffk-2
Replace Thomas with mutumbo and you got a deal.
marijuasher
Barstool Sports = Toilet Bowl Content
driftcat28 2
Facts
cecildawg
Some, use words as thrown stones. ‘Worthless’ is just such a word. We often times call others what we are. We are too close to ourselves to have a proper prospective. Nothing to be ashamed about. We all do this. The elimination of name calling might be a good place to start that arduous journey towards self- actualization. Just saying.
mike156
Terrific player, but unless the acquirer wins the World Series, whatever the price is will be seen as an overpay
augold5
Not necessarily, who knows if the prospects sent in the deal will be productive MLB players. Also, for a small market team like the Brewers, making the world series or even the playoffs can play huge divadends
augold5
Dividends*
RedRooster
O contrair, when you trade for a rental, the only way the trade is a positive is if you win the World Series. Even if the prospects are all busts it’s not like you are better off from the trade.
BlueSkyLA
The purpose of a rental is to help a team to whatever title they are able to achieve. This could be the stretch run to winning a division, the division series, the league series, or the World Series. Ideally the big prize is the goal as it is for every team but to say that a team gets no benefit from a rental unless they go all the way is totally arbitrary.
RedRooster
No BlueSkyLA. You’re wrong. How much heat do you think Jed Hoyer would have gotten for the Chapman trade if the Cubs hadn’t won the World Series that year? It’s the same way with Machado. Especially because a lot of fans seem to have some delusional idea that trading for him will ensure that he signs there come the offseason.
ASapsFables
The Chapman rental trade to the Cubs and any potential fallout from not winning the World Series was a unique situation to the North Side of Chicago. The team hadn’t won a championship in 108 years and most Cubs fan would have been more forgiving to the front office if they failed to win the title after the deal was consummated.
Many fans, like myself, would have also put any blame squarely on manager Joe Maddon for his questionable strategies in the postseason including some ill-advised use of Chapman in the World Series versus the Indians. The FO had also already taken some heat from segments of its fan base when the trade came down at the deadline because of Chapman’s domestic violence issue in which he had already received a suspension from MLB as a member of the Reds.
Finally, the Cubs had zero intention of signing Chapman as a free agent following the 2016 season. That won’t be the case for most contenders interested in acquiring Machado now, especially a team like the Phillies who have long been considered a strong potential landing spot for Machado as a FA this coming offseason.
RedRooster
If the goal is to get him signed long-term then there’s no point in giving up top 100 prospects on top of that. He’s not going to be any cheaper if you trade for him first.
El Duderino
Nobody is saying he’ll be cheaper by trading for him now. People have implied that if three teams all offer him a 400 million dollar contract, he might be more willing to stay with the team with which he already has experience.
RedRooster
“MIGHT?” You don’t give up top 100 prospects for a MIGHT! Especially when the Phillies still have to give him $400m anyway.
augold5
Of course winning the world series is the ultimate benefit of a rental trade, but even making the playoffs for a franchise like the brewers would still help bring in revenue and show other players in FA next off season that the FO is willing to do anything to win. For a franchise like the Yankees or Red Sox anything but winning the world series would seem as a failure but not for a small market team. You cannot compare the Cubs to the Brewers either, two different fan bases, markets and history. Also , we don’t know what the prospect package will look like. If its headlined by a AAA OF like Brett Phillips who likely wouldn’t have more than 100 AB’s over the next two years with the Brewers because of the glut of OF’s then I strongly disagree with a WS or bust mentality. If they give up Burnes or Peralta, then yes the expectations will be higher. No matter what package is given up though, a WS appearance would still be seen as a success in the eyes of any Brewer fan(including myself). They have only been to one WS in their entire existence as a franchise
proof2006
No point in arguing with him. Making the playoffs would be huge for the Phillies. This season was support be a wash before the season started. Getting to the playoffs and causing a buzz to put fans in the seats is a huge part of why the Phillies should aquire him. No one is worried about winning a ws this year in Philly. The team was expected to be battling for 3rd place in the division.
RedRooster
And what is going to happen to those fans when Machado leaves after one half-season?
augold5
I don’t know any brewer fans that are going in with an expectation to sign him after this season. They don’t have the payroll to afford a 30M/yr player especially with Braun and Cain taking up 40M next season.
RedRooster
No team’s fans should expect that they will be able to sign him
augold5
Ok, so then they shouldn’t be disappointed if the Brewers make the playoffs or WS, meaning the trade would not be a “bust”
Ryan Hilson
Cain is only making 14 million next year and Braun at 19 million so that’s not quite 40 million also total payroll is at 106 million this year so in theory they could but shouldn’t
Cat Mando
redrooster (who sounds suspiciously like WestCoastRyan)…..Since you are bound and determined to “prove” to everyone that you and only you are right I would like to point out a few things.
You and only you have used the term “prerequisite”.(look up the definition) No one else has said it is a must in signing him long term. A few have stated it may help and have provided examples of players who resigned because they liked the experience and you (as WCR always did) dismissed it. You have no absolute proof that It won’t help, only your opinion. It is also only your opinion that “the only way the trade is a positive is if you win the World Series.” You do not know the reason or thought process for each team vying for his services, even though you believe you do.
Lastly it’s “au contraire”, not “O contrair”. Have a nice day, I won’t be responding directly to any of your gascon comments.
RedRooster
@Cat Mando wow, it must have been hard for you exhausting your entire vocabulary in one comment!
Please never breed.
Michael Chaney
If Jim Bowden says he’ll get traded this week I expect him to stay put and turn down a qualifying offer
stymeedone
What if all the teams bidding refuse to trade an arm and a leg, and the Orioles have to accept the best finger and toe offered? Will it be an overpay then?
outinleftfield
If they don’t get what they want, they keep him, offer the QO at the end of the season and take their draft pick.
RedRooster
I think Machado is good enough that he should net a better return than that comp pick even as a rental. Wouldn’t surprise me to see the Orioles take the comp pick anyway tho.
jbigz12
Then the teams who choose not to pay can “upgrade” their lineup with Brian dozier.
chound
Phillies makes the most sense hands down. They were already the most likely team to land him in FA.
RedRooster
Nope becuase signing him and trading for him are separate and irrelevant transactions. The Phillies seem more interested in getting him long-term which trading for him doesn’t do.
augold5
You act like these players have no emotion and are robots. No one is saying Muchado will sign for 50M less with the team he is traded to, but if he likes or dislikes the city/FO/players during his time on whatever team he is traded to, that will have influence if the proposed contracts this off season are similar. I agree with you that the trade should only be with the idea of having Muchado for this season, but the two are not irrelevant of each other.
RedRooster
I know it CAN have an influence on him in free agency but that influence can just as easily be a bad one and the small chance of it saving you maybe $5m in free agency is not worth the prospects Machado will cost. No smart front office will ever trade for a player because they think it will make it easier to sign him and it seems like the Phillies are more interested in getting him long-term than anything.
augold5
Did you not read my comment?… you’re arguing with yourself at this point. Never once did I say the influence was only positive or that a FO would trade for him simply to be able to sign him in the off season.
RedRooster
Ah, so we are in agreement. In that case, trading for Machado only makes sense if you genuinely think you can contend for a World Series in 2018.
augold5
Correct??… which teams trying to get Machado are not contending for a WS? The NL is wide open. The Phillies, Brewers and Dodgers would definitely be WS contenders with Machado. In the Brewers case though I think just making a deep playoff run is also a reason to trade for Machado,
RedRooster
But reports I’ve read and comments on this site seem to indicate that the Phillies are more interested in getting him long-term which trading for him doesn’t do. And I’ve seen at least one person within the last month suggest that the White Sox trade for Machado in order to gain an advantage in signing him.
jleve618
I think they have a much better chance with him than without. Next year the east will be alot better, this year the window is cracked.
augold5
So one delusional fan says something and that means its the general opinion? The first priority for trading for Machado is on winning this season…….Then, after the season’s over with, the FO can be hopeful he enjoyed his time during this season and hope that influences him to sign there instead of with a team like the Yankees(with a similar contract proposed). No team is trading for Machado, assuming he will sign with them.
RedRooster
“The first priority for trading for Machado is on winning this season.”
It’s the ONLY priority.
“Then, after the season’s over with, the FO can be hopeful he enjoyed his time during this season and hope that influences him to sign there instead of with a team like the Yankees(with a similar contract proposed).”
If it does give them an advantage (which isn’t necessarily true and can also backfire) it would only be something like $5m. Not the type of thing you trade a top 100 prospect plus more for.
augold5
The advantage isn’t being able to sign him for less, its getting him to sign with your team instead of another for the same amount of money. Also its a trial run to see if he fits with your team. If personalities or playing styles clash, then its better to figure that out now instead of after signing him for 300M. I didn’t say trade a T100 prospect just to have a possible advantage on signing him. I’m saying trade your prospects for an all-star SS/3B to win this year, and that there are possible bonuses of having a player on your roster prior to them hitting the open market. Its called looking at the whole picture, its lumped into the entirety of what you’re getting and it has to be considered when GM’s are trading.
Gavin B
The writer was payed by the O’s to write this so the dodgers and brewers will up their offers
orioles667083
Orioles front office is not that smart
ThatBallwasBryzzoed
When their president of operations name is mcfail. That’s very evident.
outinleftfield
You got that right. The O’s can’t even figure out how to sign Latin players as international free agents.
dave1775
Manny tears his Achilles tonight and Balt is screwed lol
driftcat28 2
Who would believe Barstool
yanks02026
The one barstool guy had a “source” that said the yankees were close to a deal last week. These guys know nothing
ThatBallwasBryzzoed
Mid game trade to philly. Switches uniforms. Walk off PH home run for the NL.
jlahman
Orioles are gonna trade him for a boat load of future stars, then resign him in the off season! 😉
Phillies2017
I’m in the minority here, but I think the Phillies should pursue Lowrie over the offseason assuming he becomes available. Considerably less expensive and a good veteran mentor to Crawford and Kingery (who lets not forget are still rookies).
As I’ve said before, you can’t take away what Machado is- a star- but the prospects on top of a 10-year $300-$400 million deal when he has shown inconsistencies in plate discipline throughout his career is scary.
If you look at the players who remain even somewhat relevant through their late 30’s early 40’s, were talking .080-.2 isolated on base percentages. Manny’s a career .054. When the bat starts to go, towards the back half of the contract, and it will, he doesn’t have the plate discipline to cushion his OPS. Even if it’s only the last three years, that’s $120 million.
After watching this team suffocate under bad contract among bad contract, you can imagine my skepticism.
raef715
get your point, but Phils fans arent going to rush out to buy tickets and Jed Lowrie tickets…and what position are you playing him at?
DannyQ3913
CBS Philly reported tonight that Wednesday trade to Philly is happening
waylonmercy
The Orioles have a handshake agreement with Philadelphia Then the top prospects going to Baltimore will be riding the bench until the deal is announced. If those players are playing tonight then we know the rumor is bogus.
Coast1
Interesting conjecture. Here’s who did and didn’t play tonight.
Cole Irvin pitched in AAA. Fast rising lefty who can pitch in the big leagues now.
Zach Green didn’t play tonight. 24 year old 1B-3B who was a dud but has blossomed this year.
Franklyn Kilome started for AA. Has been regarded as the team’s #3 starting pitching prospect after Sanchez and Medina.
Austin Listi didn’t play tonight at AA. He’s also a 24 year old 1B-OF. He was drafted last year at age 23 but has torn through the system.
Arquimedes Gamboa has been mentioned in a possible deal but he played tonight.
Jhailyn Ortiz has also been mentioned but he played at Lakewood tonight. It’d be hard to see them giving up both Medina and Ortiz for Machado.
waylonmercy
If Baltimore and Philadelphia had a handshake deal on Muchado some of the Phillies top prospects would have been conspicuous by their absence tonight. All of their prospects have been accounted for so I tend to believe the barstool report was erroneous.
waylonmercy
Not sure why my comment was posted three times.
Blue_Painted_Dreams_LA
It happens when using the phone app. You see the comment three times, but you only posted it once.
jleve618
I’ve had one go 4 times before, that was cool.
Bubba 5
Stop posting it NOBODY CARES ANYMORE
mrnatewalter
You know what, Napoleon, you can leave.
outinleftfield
Obviously, you do. You are here.
CardsNation5
Any team that traders for SS Machado is stupid. He’s horrible at the position and has two bad knees. He’s better off at 3rd base. Any team that lets him stay at SS is desperate.
CardsNation5
Then on top of the fact what type of player are you gonna get away from Camden?
jbigz12
I’m sure the hitter friendly confines of citizen bank will do just fine for MM. Camden Yards doesn’t make MM the player he is. No one thinks that.
RedRooster
At the end of the day, answer this question: If you knew 100% that Machado is not going to sign with you come the offseason, would you still trade for him? Would you still offer the same package in a trade for him? If the answer is no, then don’t do it.
dpierson10
Agreed 100%. That title though. Don’t think that’s the only piece philly is missing. But a hell of a haul and the nl is weak this year.
koldjerky
Would I still trade for him? Yes
Would I still offer the same package? No
If you 100% knew he wasn’t coming back in the off season you severely lighten the offer.
The caveat would be to not get in a bidding war. The Phillies aren’t at the point they’re one or two pieces away so giving up the rumored package would be silly if he wasn’t coming back HOWEVER I do feel the Phillies have as good a chance as anyone to re-sign him.
dewssox79
it has to be the phillies. i think LA would be the favorite to go to the WS if they got him.
rgreen
Hernandez
Machado
Herrera
Hoskins
Santana
Franco/Kingery
Williams
Alfaro
Some nice potential in that lineup right there
WubbaLubbaDubDub
The order isn’t right…but he would definitely help even out the lineup.
jbigz12
He’s a huge boost to the lineup but it’s still not a top 5 offense. Barely a top 10.
dpierson10
What are we thinking here as a GM. For a rental just to be clear. Medina, Ortiz, lively and moniak. Help me out guys. Just trying to think what the trade may be. Philly fans are solid. I’m an astros fan and waiting to see this play out. Keep him away from the yanks or Sox even though would be nice to beat them with him on those rosters.
Coast1
I don’t see it them trading Medina and Ortiz in a deal for Machado since he’s a rental. Moniak’s value is at a low point. He’s the fourth player in your deal. The Phillies would be smarter to hold on him. The Phillies have a lot of pitching depth and would probably prefer most or all the players to be pitchers. Connor Seabold, Drew Anderson, Cole Irvin, and JoJo Romero are names to watch.
Don’t dismiss the two players who didn’t play tonight. Green was 2nd in the Eastern League in home runs when he got promoted and Listi is carrying a huge bat this year. The Orioles love sluggers and most of theirs are near the end.