The Padres will shift righty Bryan Mitchell to the bullpen, as Kevin Acee of the San Diego Union-Tribune reports. Recent signee Kazuhisa Makita, meanwhile, has been optioned to Triple-A.
To account for the decision on Mitchell, the club has moved fellow righty Jordan Lyles into the rotation for at least one start, veteran Padres writer Bill Center tweets. Meanwhile, lefty Matt Strahm was activated from the DL to step in for Makita.
These moves reflect the disappointing initial showings of two of the Padres’ most significant offseason pitching additions. Mitchell was the key piece acquired in a trade in which the Friars agreed to take over the remaining $13MM owed to Chase Headley, while Makita signed for $3.8MM over two years (plus a $500K posting fee).
In the case of Mitchell, who is out of options, the results have been awful thus far. He’s carrying a 6.47 ERA with 4.5 K/9 against 7.3 BB/9 in 32 frames over seven starts. His swinging-strike rate, which has never been very compelling in the majors, is down to just 5.0%.
Though Acee writes that the organization still believes in Mitchell and even thinks he could yet be a big-league starter, he’ll need to show something to earn another opportunity. For now, it’ll be Lyles who gets another crack at working from the rotation, though it’s unclear whether he’ll receive an extended shot. He’s still just 27 years of age and broke into the majors as a starter, but has not yet shown that he can hold down a job working every fifth day.
As for the 33-year-old Makita, a veteran of Japan’s Nippon Professional Baseball but a MLB rookie, he’s shown both some good and bad to open the year. He’s sporting a healthy 15.4% swinging-strike rate and 9.6 K/9 against 3.9 BB/9 over his 16 innings. While a 6.75 ERA is never a good sign, in this case the damage is mostly isolated to a pair of rough outing and is surely a reflection in some part of a 58.5% strand rate that likely will go down. Makita needs to pare back the long balls (1.69 HR/9, 20.0% HR/FB) as well, but generally his unique, soft-tossing pitch mix has shown a fair bit of promise of playing in the majors.
Strahm, meanwhile, will look to make good on his long-observed talent. He was part of the interesting swap swung last year between the Padres and Royals. Strahm, who did not debut with the San Diego organization until 2018, has impressed in 14 1/3 innings this year at Double-A, allowing four earned runs while running a 22:4 K/BB ratio. Though he was knocked around in his debut outing last night, he figures to get a real chance to stick in the bigs.
driftcat28 2
Hopefully Mitchell can find some success in the pen. Always liked him in NY, he could just never get it together
driftcat28 2
PS I still can’t believe San Diego took all of Headlys contract lol
srechter
Ninja cash at work
xabial
Bryan Mitchell was so bad for the Yankees, no hard feelings if he developed with you guys.
There’s still a chance he can be developed, because as someone pointed out — he’s under team control through 2024! — Maybe he finds his niche as a RP.
Good luck, from this Yankee fan
davidcoonce74
I think the Padres did that to avoid the ire of the union. There are four teams that the union has filed a grievance over of some sort for basically not spending any money this offseason, and the Padres would have been the fifth. At the time of the Headley trade it looked like Hosmer may have been heading back to KC which would have given the Padres basically no spending in the offseason. They probably thought they could have offloaded at least part of Headley’s contract if he played well but he’s barely played this year and hasn’t been good when he has played.
jbigz12
They could’ve signed any number of FA pitchers for that amount of money. They liked Mitchell. It was a bad deal. It looked bad then. There’s no union excuse. It’s jusr a bad move.
mooshimanx
They’re not spending tens of millions to avoid a grievance that means less than nothing.
steven schrift
Spot on my sentiments exactly.
Kwflanne
Mitchell not being DFA at this point is for ONE reason only…. AJ Preller’s pride. Too big of a pill to swallow that he just got absolutely taken in this trade.
eduardoaraisa98
It’s not pride, they still see potential in him and how excactly did he get taken in this trade? The Padres gave up nothing for both Headley and Mitchell and they had the payroll to eat Headleys contract. It’s not like that money would add up to next year’s budget. and why in the world would he get DFA so early in the season. He’s only been with the Padres for seven starts and it’s not like the Padres have plenty of options elsewhere.
Kwflanne
Where to start here…. the “payroll to eat headleys contract”… is 13 million that could’ve been spent elsewhere. 13 million for a player sitting on the bench. Why would he get DFA so early in the season? Because he is absolutely dreadful. You know, kinda like how Matt Harvey…. who actually has a track record of success, as opposed to Mitchell, just got DFA.
Not like the money would add up to next years budget?? What in the world does that even mean? So in your opinion, is this how the conversation went: “hey Ron fielder, its me… AJ. I like this guy mitchel, who doesn’t cost anything… but I need 13 million for headley to sit on the bench. Is that ok? We weren’t gonna use that 13 million anywhere else… so you wouldn’t mind just throwing it at headley would ya?”
Ron: “sure… why not. I didn’t want that 13 million anyways”.
No… there is no way around this. When you take on 13 million in salary, you’re expecting results. When the results aren’t there, the trade is a dud. That’s pretty basic logic. Can’t say… “oh…. well we weren’t going to use that money anyways… so it’s no big deal..”
Makes no sense
davidcoonce74
It makes sense if you think about the fact that the Padres had spent no money at that point, and the union has gone after four teams for not doing that. Mitchell supposedly has good stuff, but he’s been brutal. If he had been even decent, 13 million dollars is nothing to a major-league team. He has been terrible and Headley hasn’t played
Kwflanne
Ummm if 13 million is nothing to a major league team…. then how is taking on that 13 million supposed to be just to “avoid conflict with the union”. That kinda contradicts itself there. “They spent it to show the union they spend money..” “13 million is nothing to a major league team..”
davidcoonce74
It means they didn’t spend negative money, which was basically the situation before the deal.
eduardoaraisa98
I’m sorry but on who would we have spend those $13 million on? Because from what I recall the only players accepting one year contracts for less than $13 million on FA were mostly relievers and we already have plenty of those. Please make sure to name players that we actually needed. We already had a stacked outfield, plenty of options at second and third, good catching depth, signed Hosmer at first and the best cheap option at SS was Escobar which I thought the should’ve signed. Also, don’t know if you recall, but Headley had a decent season with the Yankees when we aquired him. He accumulated a .273/.352/.406 with 12 home runs. With that record, he would’ve been considered one of the most talented players with the Padres if he played for them in that year. Yeah, Mitchell is doing bad, give the guy some time to adjust and prove himself. You give up way to easily and fast on a player, this is the second time Mitchell has pitched over 31 innings in the Majors. Also, not only does Matt Harvey have a terrible history with injuries, but he has been struggling for a while. His last successful season was in 2015. You’re making a big deal of those $13 million. It’s common sense, you have to give up something to get something. The Padres weren’t going to trade talent for a pitcher that they saw potential on, so they decided to eat Headleys contract instead. If Fowler wasn’t okay with that deal, he would’ve stopped it, you do realize he has the power to do that, right? Folwer is also the same guy that pushed Preller to sign Hosmer. So, if you ask me, I’m sure Fowler was okay with giving up those $13 million, or else it wouldn’t have been Mitchell who would’ve been fired
Kwflanne
Also…. did you say the Padres don’t have options elsewhere?? …. do you even follow this team? Lauer, luchessi, Quantrill, Allen, Lockett…. just to name a few… are all people that could have been in the rotation to start the year. Hell, Luis Perdomo has pitched better than Mitchell…. that’s a REAL problem. But what happened?? Once Mitchell was traded for, he was AUTOMATICALLY given a spot in the rotation…. and what did green say now?? “He’s going to the bullpen… he has to show us he deserves a spot in the rotation…” ummm shouldn’t he have had to do that in the first place?? But nope, AJs boy gets a guaranteed spot… and as I said, is only not DFA because if he WAS to be DFA…. then AJ is LITERALLY paying 13 million for nothing at all.
davidcoonce74
Yes, starting the service-time clock on actual prospects in a 95-loss season is really smart baseball. Calm down. The Padres aren’t winning anything this year and that’s been the plan all along.
Kwflanne
The Padres have already shown they don’t have issues with the service clock… see: Margot, luchessi.
So yeah, giving the positions to players more deserving IS smart. Especially when you are deep in prospects at a position. Luchessi, Lauer, Allen, Quantrill, Baez, gore, Morejon, Espinoza…. there’s only so many rotation spots… yes, you start the clock and see who can actually pitch. That’s how you narrow down the 5 rotation pieces out of your prospects
Kwflanne
So wait… “don’t start the clocks, we won’t win this year..”
So this team is gonna be good next year? NO. So I guess don’t start them then either, right? Just curious…. since you’re concerned with service clocks starting in a losing season…. when do you actually call up your prospects? Do you call them up in one year, all at a time, and they all have amazing rookie seasons and turn in a winning season? That makes sense. Seems realistic.
Kwflanne
Wait…. how has Margot not been a prospect “for several years now”…?!?! Do you follow this team at all? He was a rookie LAST YEAR. They started him in center to start the year, thus “starting his clock”.
davidcoonce74
He has exceeded his rookie status, therefore is “not a prospect” and has made it through all the levels of the minors and is 23 years old. None of the other guys you think the Padres should call up have done any of those things.
davidcoonce74
“When should a team call up its prospect?” When they are ready to contribute at the major league level. If you think Anderson Espinoza, who hasn’t pitched in 2 years and never above A-ball, is ready, you don’t have any idea about baseball. You would ruin any chance of him to have a career if you did something that careless.
eduardoaraisa98
Most of the players you named are prospects that aren’t expected to pitch until 2019…
Kwflanne
When did I say anderson Espinoza was ready? You are completely missing the point I made, so I will try to make it more simple: you thought it was dumb to start service clocks on players like Lauer, luchessi, etc during a losing season…. MY POINT… was that when you have so many waves of pitching coming up THROUGHOUT the system (gore, Baez, Morejon, Espinoza, Quantrill, Lauer, Allen, luchessi…) then at some point, you HAVE to start the clock on the people higher up in the system (luchessi, Lauer, Quantrill, Lockett, etc.)… nowhere did I say Mitchell’s rotation spot shouldnhave gone to Espinoza, gore, Morejon or any of the lower level prospects. But if you don’t give the UPPER level prospects a chance now…. where the hell are they all going to play eventually? Understand??
Kwflanne
Actually they won’t be ready (gore, Morejon, Baez, Espinoza) till well after 2019… 2020 at the absolute earliest. Again, missing my point. Mitchell’s promised spot in the rotation could have gone to players like luchessi, Lauer, Lockett, Quantrill, Nix…. and so on and so on
Kwflanne
Glad you deleted your comment that Margot hasn’t been a prospect in several years…. because that was just bad. Good save
eduardoaraisa98
That rotation spot wouldn’t have gone to any of those players on opening week because then the Padres would’ve lost a year worth of their service. It wouldn’t have been worth it for a team that’s not even expected to compete years from now. The Padres also stated that they thought all Mitchell needed was a rotation spot to prove himself. Just like Ross, Cashner and Pomeranz when they first aquired them, but just because you see potential in a player doesn’t mean its guarantee that they’ll play good. Same thing with all those prospects, Lucchesi was playing good in the minors so they decided to give him a chance. All the other pitchers are not even in triple a
JackDanielsGhost
Kwaflanne, drink more decaf
Kwflanne
You guys and your “service time” issues…. let me ask a very simple question: is this team competing in 2019? No. Pretty agreeable yeah? So I guess keep them in the minors that year also. So that puts Lauer, luchessi, Quantrill, etc. in the upper minors, while gore, Baez, Morejon, etc have all graduated up to AA. Are you starting to see the logjam? You guys think “don’t bring them up in a losing season and waste a year of service time”… what do you expect to happen?!?! Call them all up at once and they all compete for rookie of the year and send the Padres to the World Series their first year?? NEWS: ROOKIES HAVE STRUGGLES. they will go through losing seasons. You can’t just hold them down and say: “we will call them up when we are ready to win..”
That doesn’t even make sense
JackDanielsGhost
You’re the first person to ever complain about having too much starting pitching depth.
Kwflanne
It’s only depth if they are quality pitchers… which you won’t know until they pitch in the majors. I’m not complaining about the depth, I’m advocating against creating a logjam in playing time…. you know…. like at second base and in the Padres outfield right now…
eduardoaraisa98
You’re really missing the point, it’s completely going over your head. Non of us are saying the Padres will win the World Series if we wait for all the prospects to be called up all at once. If you know baseball, you keep your prosepcts on the minors for the first couple of weeks of baseball to not lose a whole year of control for the future. It really sounds like you didn’t know, because that didn’t happen with Margot. He was called up at seasons end of 2015. That year could be when they’re in their peak of their career. Now, it’s a good time to call up prospects because that time has passed, why do you think the Braves waited to call up Rolando Acuna?
JackDanielsGhost
What?
Spany – Utility Guy
Asuaje – Utility Guy
Pirela – Had a nice year last year, coming back down to earth. Only a matter of time before Urias takes his spot
Myers – DL
Renfroe – Platoon player on the DL
Margot – Hitting below the mendoza linie, may need some time in AAA to work his ish out
Jank – Great 4th/5th outfielder on a contending team to provide speed and defense. Nothing more
Franchy – Needs to show he can be consistent. Started out hot in his ML debut last year too, before fizzling.
Szcur (or however you spell his damn name) – Tank Ammo
Where is this logjam you speak of?
Kwflanne
Well…. that’s interesting. You do understand that Margot wasn’t called up in 2015 as u said…. it was at the end of 2016. So let’s start there. And you also know that being called up for the short period of time at the end of that season didn’t cost him a year of service time. That would be when they decided to play him at the beginning of 2017…. instead of keeping him in the minors until the date had past
Kwflanne
The logjam? Is exactly what you just listed. So hold on, I give up on a player (Mitchell) far too quickly… but Renfroe is a platoon player? One year after setting a rookie record in homeruns? And being sent down last year, called back up at the end of the year because management said he improved on what they asked. But automatically a bench player this year, why? Because Myers was no longer at first. Myers to right field, where Renfroe needed to get at bats. Logjam. Pirela in left field to start the year, making two young players (Margot/Cordero) who need consistent at bats, play for one spot… logjam. Pirela at second base, where we also have asuaje and spangenberg, with Urias waiting his turn… logjam.
I’m not arguing that spangy and/or asuaje are starters. Or Pirela for that matter. but all of them are taking at bats from the younger players, much like the Myers move took at bats from Renfroe after his rookie year.
eduardoaraisa98
Oops, sorry I misstypped the year by one number that’s next to the other. Renfroe did set the record for most home runs, but have you seen his batting average. He even got at bats this year and he didn’t show contact or power. He was sent down to improve on his contact mostly. You said it yourself, give the chance to the player that deserves it. Priela is doing good defensively and offensively. Luis Urias is expected to be called up, so why are you complaining. Margot got at bats and is struggling. Cordero got at bats and is succeeding and is now a starter.
JackDanielsGhost
I’m just going to stop arguing with you. You’re clearly a troll or just have a very rudimentary understanding of the game. Go look at Renfroes splits. He can’t hit righties to save his life.. He has a 1.055 OPS vs LHP’s and .669 vs RHP’s. He is what he is. I wanted him to be more, but he’s just not. He also is totally lost out in the field.
Kwflanne
It’s not complaining. There’s a thing called consistent playing time. I’m honestly trying to figure out your view here on this then…. so is Margot done? Renfroe done? As in… platoon players now? Because my point about there being a logjam, is that there isn’t room for them to have consistent at bats. Right? Not sure how that’s even debatable. Renfroe getting at bats against lefties and pinch hitting agains bullpen arms late in the game isn’t the same as getting regular at bats, right? So is he a platoon player already after his rookie year? Same with Margot?
JackDanielsGhost
Renfroe is exactly what I said he is. A lefty masher. He’s a platoon player., That was always the fear with him going back to the minors. Margot has always had the higher ceiling and provides Gold glove caliber defense.. He should be given a little more rope to work it out, but if he can’t get it together, he might need some time in AAA to work it out. Wouldn’t hurt to hold him down for a month TO GET AN EXTRA YEAR OF TEAM CONTROL while we’re at it.
These things usually take care of themselves. People get hurt, or just don’t perform. Enjoy the process. Stop freaking out about $12.5 million for Headley.
steven schrift
Luchessi and Lauer are in already nobody has even mentioned Brett Kennedy he has better stats than Lauer and they brought him up already. Kennedy looks good has a 2.45 ERA in 6 starts 33 innings pitched means your getting over 5 innings from him per game.
RedRooster
How would delaying Lucchesi’s callup by 3 weeks have stopped the Padres from “seeing if he can actually pitch?” And if he ultimately isn’t in the Padres’ top 5 starters he will have more trade value with an extra year of control.
davidcoonce74
No, actually MLBTR has it as “awaiting moderation.” By definition Margot, who has exceeded rookie status, is no longer a prospect. He’s a major -leaguer, who succeeded at all the levels of the minors before a modestly successful rookie season. And I’m fine with having a discussion but, man, you turn everything into a fight and personal insults.
Kwflanne
Hmmm…. where else could that 13 million gone… well, I’ll use your logic here. Since they were apparently looking for pitching (with a rotation of Ross, Richard, Perdomo, etc..) instead of taking on 13 million in headley… maybe throw it at Lance Lynn. You know, the starting pitcher who signed for 1-year and 12 million. Wow…. then maybe he could’ve performed, as he has a track record of doing so, and been flipped for prospects at the deadline. Since you wanted a specific player named…. I’ll just go ahead and use that one
eduardoaraisa98
If you follow baseball at all you would recall that Lynn was looking for more money and more years and the reason why he agreed to that contract it’s because of the historical slow free agency, just saying.
Kwflanne
Thank you for helping my point…. in a historically slow offseason, where players are not receiving their expected pay…. we wasted 13 million on headley/Mitchell. Lynn was one of the last remaining starters signed. Due to patience and an understanding of how the offseason was playing out, the twins were able to get him on a one year, 12 million deal. As opposed to the one year, 13 million we are paying for headley. Correct? So you asked for a player that money could have gone to…. or hell…. don’t spend the 13 million at all.
JackDanielsGhost
Dude, Lance Lynn has a ERA of 7.28 which is worse than Mitchell Do you even follow baseball?
Kwflanne
Wait. Hold on. I want you to sit there and say that because Lynn has a higher ERA than Mitchell right now… that you think MITCHELL is better than LANCE LYNN…. that’s the point you’re trying to make? Do I even watch baseball?? Haha yes… and that’s why I can say EASILY I will still take Lynn and his track record, over the 13 million we are paying for Mitchell. That’s a pretty big no brainer
eduardoaraisa98
The Padres aquired Headley and Mitchell before anybody knew the FA was gonna be as slow as it was
eduardoaraisa98
Besides, Lynn signed with the Twins mostly because they’re a good team… I’m sure that even if the Padres placed a higher offer on the table than the Twins, Lynn would’ve still signed with the Twins to get a chance to pitch in the playoffs this year
JackDanielsGhost
Where did I say Mitchell is better than Lynn? I was specifically talking about their ERA because YOU KEEP YELLING ABOUT LANCE LYNN RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE.
Again, who the hell cares. It’s only money in a losing year and none of it’s yours. We didn’t give up any player capital which Preller and Fowler/Seidler have shown time and time again they care more about and rightly so.
eduardoaraisa98
Also, you don’t seem to understand that if teams don’t show that theyre somehow trying to improve their team by investing in some way then they could be in trouble with the union. Those $13 million is not a lot for a team that has the budget to do so, but it’s a lot for the union. You need to learn more about baseball because you sound like a basic fan that doesn’t understand the rules
JackDanielsGhost
Mitchell came with control through 2021, lynn was a one year deal. Not sure how that’s better or helps you at all in a losing year.
Kwflanne
Yea…. a controllable Mitchell is much more valuable than a proven starter at the trade deadline….
For a team like the Padres, that’s how you stock up. Sign small annual deals and/or trades, and flip for prospects. Ross, Cahil, Pomeranz, kimbrel, etc.
So having lynn at mid season, when we aren’t competing, and using him to load more prospects…. is highly more valuable than control of Mitchell.
JackDanielsGhost
How is someone who’s getting shelled like Lance Lynn valuable? I don’t think you realized there’s a reason he had to take a one year deal. No one really wanted him.
eduardoaraisa98
Dude seriously stop talking about Lance Lynn. He was looking for a contract worth $15/3years. Stop pretending like you could predict the future and actually think the Padres knew Lynn was going to give a discount to a potential playoff team because of the slow off season that no one saw coming. If you actually believe Lynn would have also done the same thing to the Padres you are delusional.
brucewayne
Lynn’s last 2 games have been much better! If you recall, he missed all of spring training
JackDanielsGhost
Um, or they could’ve spent the money on Headley, a guy who would’ve lead the padres in OBP if he was on the team last year, and was the opening day starting 3rd baseman (until Villanueva played out of his mind in April and took it from him) and then flipped him for prospects.
Preller took low risk, high reward chance shot with grabbing Mitchell. Just because it doesn’t work out, doesn’t mean it wasn’t worth it at the time. Your focus on an expiring contract worth only $12.5 million (Yankees ate $500K) in a rebuilding season is ridiculous. You must still think Jeff Morad owns the team if you’re worrying about a deal like that.
Kwflanne
I feel like people are forgetting that even Preller was trying to unload headley and his contract before the season started… and was hoping for a deal with the Angels, until they signed Cozart. I guess we will just ignore that Preller was trying to unload that contract also…
eduardoaraisa98
Preller was trying to get rid of Headley because we had other options at third, not because he wanted to unload the contract. He would’ve been lucky if someone ate $1 million of Healdeys contract and still get nothing in return
Kwflanne
Preller was trying to get rid of headley because we had other options at third… or headley would’ve been the starter if not for villanuevas hot April? Because you are both making different arguments. But I’ll address the “other options at third” part… if he had other options at third (spangy, Villanueva, etc)… then took on the 13 mill KNOWING he had those options at third… THEN tried to flip headleys contract thinking he could have a buyer… THEN misjudged the level of interest there would be in headley… THEN we were stuck with headley and his contract… THEN Mitchell bombed…. how is that NOT being a dud of a trade?? Which was the original post I made that you wanted to debate…
eduardoaraisa98
The Padres told Headley they were going to trade him the moment they got him. There were teams that we’re interested, the best buyer we has was the Angels before they aquired Cozart. Things aren’t always going to work in anyone’s favor, you can’t predict anything in baseball. You really sound like you had everything figured out the moment the Padres made that trade. Dude, you realize the reason why he took the $13 million was for four years of team control over Mitchell, right? Not because we wanted to keep Headley
Kwflanne
Haha I think you all have gotten so deep into your arguement, that you forgot what I said…. I’m not saying I predicted the trade would be bad… or that i had it figured out before Preller…. I said the trade was a DUD!!! Which it is!! of course it’s in hindsight…. but that doesn’t make it wrong. Are there actually people here defending the outcome of that trade??
eduardoaraisa98
The outcome of the trade was bad, no one is defending that. you are just adding works to our mouths. What you’re saying is that the trade was bad from the start and it wasn’t. the way the trade looked like in the beginning it looked like a decent trade. Four years of control for a what, 27 year old healthy pitcher that could be as successful as Tyson Ross, Chasner, or Pomeranz… and Headleys $13 million in exchange for nothing. Like I said, the outcome is bad, the trade was fair. The Padres had higher expectations
brucewayne
At this time it looks like it’s a bad trade yes, but they still have 3 more years to work on Mitchell’s game . Maybe it gets better or its 3 more years of terrible pitching !
kil0
Gotta agree with JDG. Kwflanne, relax, it’s just a game. Enjoy it for what it is.
Entertainment. If you don’t like the product, don’t go to the games. That will bring about change (from a fan) quicker than anything else — especially more than fillerblogging. There are much more important things to get “worked up” about in SD than the Padres. Why don’t you put all of that negative energy to positive use in your community.
strice
It’s a very simple question how much is the Padres pay roll this season. If it’s under 100 million then 13 million to one player is a huge deal .
billneftleberg
I have no horse in this race but I must say kwflanne has to be the most ignorant baseball fan ever. My condolences Padres fans. And kwflanne, buy a book and read about the game. There’s a saying: it’s better to say nothing and have people think you know something, than it is to say something and prove you are a fool. Just sayin
Kwflanne
When you leave a post complaining about someone’s baseball intellect…. and offer absolutely ZERO baseball input and/or reference in your post…. I don’t really have an issue just disregarding anything else you post. At least the people debating the topic are providing their opinion of baseball strategy…. even if it differs from mine.
JackDanielsGhost
You don’t understand baseball. He’s right. Shut up and learn.
Kwflanne
I don’t understand baseball…. from the guy who said the Padres don’t have a logjam in the outfield or infield….
“Shut up and learn”…. a truly intellectual statement.
JackDanielsGhost
The Padres have maybe 4 position players (Hosmer, Myers, Margot, maybe Hedges because his D is so good) that a contending club would feel comfortable to run out there every day. Yes, we have some guys that look like they might be on that list someday, but right now we don’t have a logjam or hot talent lava oozing all over the field.
Kwflanne
Ok… I’m gonna try and show my point another way… in hopes that you understand. You just listed Margot as one of the players a contending club would have interest in playing, right? When Pirela isn’t at second base, he is in left field, right? Cordero has been starting in place of Margot in center as of late, because Margot is hitting below .200. Myers is cemented in right when healthy. You posted earlier “Cordero needs to show he can be more consistent”… that happens with consistent playing time, that’s how you evaluate his results. But how does he and/or Renfroe get consistent playing time… when you also need to give consistent playing time to Margot (who is struggling but hopefully can figure it out) and when andy green consistently has Pirela in the lineup in left (when not at second). It’s pretty simple… there aren’t enough positions to give consistent at bats tonthe players who need them… because you are right… the “talent lava” isn’t in the majors that we know of. We don’t know if Renfroe will improve from his strikeouts of his rookie year, we don’t know if Cordero will play more consistent, we don’t know if Margot will be able to turn it around this year…. that will only happen if they play. But if there’s not a spot for them to play…. that is why there is a logjam.
JackDanielsGhost
How do you give Renfroe at bats when he’s on the DL with no time frame for a return? And Myers has an oblique strain which can linger from weeks into months. For the last time, it will work itself out. They have these cool things called options and trades that help with that. Competition breeds success. The best players will claw their way to the top of the pile and playing time. Stop worrying about it.
padreforlife
Myers, Margot contending teams would run out?
brucewayne
Well said!
SixFlagsMagicPadres
This was a long time coming. Mitchell looks terrible every time he starts. Hopefully being in the bullpen can help straighten some of his issues out, because he has a lot of them.
They’re going to need another reliever anyways once the inevitable Hand Deadline trade happens.
Bald Vinny
He’ll always have the amazing spring training before he broke his toe.
RedRooster
Wow!
I generally don’t like to agree with JDG, but he is pretty much right in this instance (except with already writing Renfroe off as a platoon player). Rebuilding teams have every incentive to hold a player down for a few weeks (note: not over a year when they are ready like Kwflanne seems to be suggesting) to gain an extra year of control. And the Mitchell + Headley deal does seem to be loss thus far, but not a big one. $13m for one year is manageable. I did think at the time tho that Preller could have done better in the trade. Maybe gotten a lottery ticket-type prospect along with Headley and Mitchell, similar to what he did with Tatis and Ruiz.
Kwflanne
That was a little confusing… I wasn’t suggesting players be held down for over a year until they are ready… I was actually making the arguement that SOME of the more advanced prospects shouldn’t have been held down at the start of the year, at the favor of guaranteeing a spot in the rotation to Mitchell
RedRooster
Yes they should have. No good prospect should finish a season with x.000 years of Major League service time. Holding Lucchesi down for three weeks would not have stopped him from succeeding in the Majors. And you did say “So this team is gonna be good next year? NO. So I guess don’t start them then either, right?” even though absolutely no one was suggesting that.
Kwflanne
Redrooster…. but that is EXACTLY what was suggested. The arguement made was that it was dumb to bring up the likes of luchessi etc…. because it was going to be a losing season and we weren’t going to compete… so what changes next year?
RedRooster
No, there is a big difference between holding a guy down for over a year when he is ready and holding him down for a few weeks when he is ready. To suggest otherwise just says you are either trolling or don’t understand the game. Your slippery slope fallacy is convincing absolutely no one.
JackDanielsGhost
None of the pitchers you listed had thrown a pitch above AA (besides Nix for one game). before this year. I don’t know why you’re trying to rush them.
Kwflanne
It’s not rushing them if they are ready. which clearly the Padres feel they were. you were making the arguement for waiting the couple weeks to call up in order to save service time… but also making the argument that starting them in the majors is rushing them? That two weeks is really going to be the difference in not rushing them?
brucewayne
2 weeks can make a huge difference in that it turns into another full year of cost controlled talent !
saavedra
I think this deal is a major loss not because of the 13M, but because we had to deal Solarte because of the created logjam. Solarte would be our 2nd best hitter right now.
RedRooster
Didn’t think of that. Good point
Kwflanne
Understandings the difference with you “super prospects” is I guess the key distinction, in my opinion. Example, Ronald acuna being held down a few weeks for an extra year of control, sure, of course. But the luchessi, Lauer, Lockett, Nix types (in a system that will be bringing the likes of Gore, Baez, Morejon, Quantrill, etc. in the following years) can be given an opportunity to start the year. If that wasn’t the case, Jordan Lyles or Robbie Erlin would’ve taken Dinelson Lamet’s rotation spot to start the year… but the Padres did the right thing and called up luchessi. It’s not like they called up and started the clock on Gore.
im not advocating giving ALL prospects service time immediately. But if you have talent coming in waves, as the Padres hopefully do… once the luchessi, Lauer, nic, etc reach the upper minors and appear ready… you can afford to start their clocks because of that depth you have.
RedRooster
Just because they can afford it doesn’t mean they should. Padres gain nothing by starting Lucchesi’s clock early. If Lucchesi can continue to pitch the way he has so far this season, it would be a real shame to not have that production in the rotation in 2024 because of a few weeks several years earlier when we were still rebuilding.
Kwflanne
I usually agree with most of what you post, particularly in the Padres website thread. But it’s just a philosophical disagreement on this… and it doesn’t make me a troller or have a lack of baseball knowledge… because my opinion was what AJ Preller ended up doing anyways. I’m pretty sure if AJ was concerned with the extra year of service from luchessi, then he wouldn’t have called him up to fill in for Lamet. Not trying to say “I was right, AJ did it”… actually don’t agree with several of AJs moves. But on this one, I think it’s just a different philosophy on how to handle some prospects.
I also think it’s important to take each prospect on a case by case consideration in these service time situations. Not every prospect will work out. Luchessi, as most people have agreed, is likely the ceiling of a #3 or #4 starter, with a floor of a #5 or bullpen arm. I think it is entirely different in risking the clock service time on a player like that, than starting the clock on a potential ace like a Mackenzie gore. If you look, Padres have luchessi, Lauer, Logan Allen, Jacob nix, and more in that range of possible #3-5 starter (ceiling) if all potential is reached. I wouldn’t go so far as to say they are interchangeable…. but just that they offer about as much upside as one another. Whereas your Gore, Morejon, Baez, etc…. those might offer ace type stuff where you need every year you can get out of them.
RedRooster
Like I said, it’s not a matter of NEEDING that extra year of control. It’s a matter of there being literally all upside and no downside to waiting three weeks to call Lucchesi up. One year of a #3 starter on a contending team has plenty of value. Three weeks of one on a rebuilding team does not.
bleacherbum
Mitchell plus Headley was a bad trade by Preller, no other way to put it.
Another guy who is not getting called out is Freddy Galvis, the guy is batting .225 with 1 homer, yeah the defense is great but I don’t think the plan was to trade our number 12 overall prospect who is killing it in the Phillies system right now by the way for a punch a Judy shortstop who is on a one year deal. Enyel De Los Santos has microscopic numbers right now and would make a lot more sense in the bullpen that Bryan Mitchell makes there now.
As a lifelong Padres fan, I try to remain optimistic but this team finds a way to shoot themselves in the foot nine times out of ten. Not even 40 games into the season and we option a guy who we just have a 2 year 6 million dollar deal to come over from Japan, Bryan Mitchell has been awful, Chase Headley is an extremely overpaid pinch hitter at this point and Galvis has been disappointing to say the least. He was acquired because of the pop from the SS position and his durability but I think because he played every game in 16’ that it is having effects on his play this year, he looks taxed.
Kwflanne
Agree for the most part. Although I don’t see an immediate upgrade at the position of SS, so I’m actually ok with the player Galvis is (as he was never really much of a hitter)… but I am completely on board with the overpayment aspect. At the time of the trade (this one is NOT in hindsight) I was very disappointed that we gave up De los Santos. He was a highly rated prospect for us, granted in a deep pitching system, but he was about the most major league ready. His stuff (big fastball and hard slider) reminded me a lot of Lamet, and he really racks up the strikeouts. The Phillies needed to move Galvis, they had to make room for Crawford and other infield prospects.
I’m ok with the player, being a stopgap shortstop…. just think we gave up too good of a prospect for him
RedRooster
Yeah, Galvis has pretty much zero value to the Padres without an extension. If the Padres really wanted a glove-first veteran on a one year deal to play shortstop in 2018, they could have signed Alcides Escobar for less money and kept Enyel de los Santos. I’m still not convinced he won’t be a reliever but even then, I think I’d rather have him than one year of Galvis at close to market rate.
Kwflanne
Agree. Wouldn’t be surprised if the same happens with Lamet. For now, both he and De Los Santos are heavy fastball/slider guys without much development of a third pitch. Lamet had some success as a rookie, but the more he is seen, the more he will need that third pitch. Wouldn’t mind him or de los Santos as a bullpen piece though
RedRooster
Lamet’s problem is he can’t get lefties out to save his life
thesaint959
As a lifelong Yankee fan, I would like to thank Padres’ GM AJ Preller for being quite possibly the worst GM in MLB. I know this because Cashman is a terrible GM and my team was garbage for years because of it. We are only doing so well now because for the past 3-4 years he has FINALLY hired intelligent people and has been listening to them while taking all the credit. If Cashman can rob your team–then your team needs a new GM. Period. That’s how I knew Jack Zduriencik was a bum who would be fired. I predict that Preller will be getting the ax soon too. Bryan Mitchell is a bust. He can rarely stay healthy and even when he does, he $ucks. I’m surprised that Headley has played so badly but maybe its because he’s no longer a regular. But let me respond to several comments I have seen, by saying that Headley is not worth 13 million, no the union did not force the Padres to do this, yes there were better ways to spend that money and yeah you guys got screwed badly on this deal.
RedRooster
“I would like to thank Padres’ GM AJ Preller for being quite possibly the worst GM in MLB”
Dan Duquette, Walt Jocketty, Michael Hill and Dave Stewart would all like to have a word with you outside…
thesaint959
Well, I wouldn’t vote for any of those names you mention for “executive of the year” either (especially Stewart who is long gone.) Duquette is mediocre IMO. Jockety is a decade or two past his prime. And the Marlins were pretty stacked until the new ownership blew them up to save money and give Jeter a nice bonus.
padreforlife
Preller has hands down ruined this franchise 4 years and nothing to hang hat on
brucewayne
You actually put Cashman in the same ranks with Preller? WoW! I think Cashman has done an excellent job with the Yanks the last few years. Look at the success of the trades he’s made
brucewayne
and also the high ranking of minor league system ! It’s put them well ahead of their projected rebuild
brucewayne
and kept them under the cap!
padreforlife
Cashman if he gets another WS will go down as one of all time great GM’s
thesaint959
Cashman is a bum. For the last 20 years, we won games with the core players Stick Michael brought in. Once those guys retired, the winning stopped, because Cashman was never even a scout and does not know how to find (or develop) talent. So instead, he tried to win by overpaying guys, who were past their prime, injury prone or both. That led to us having the highest payroll almost every year, one of the most barren farm systems and the oldest team in MLB for several straight years. Eventually, fans got fed up and attendance dropped causing Hal Steinbrenner to lose money. So Cashman (in an act of pure self-preservation) cleaned house and brought in some people that do know how to find and develop talent and THOSE people helped him make the smart trades, restock the farm etc. Sadly for your team, that was about 4 years ago, which was AFTER we drafted Bryan Mitchell. So don’t bet on him getting better.
RedRooster
Anyway, I’m not sure a move to the bullpen will help Mitchell. The two main arguments for doing this are that a guy’s stuff will play up coming out of the bullpen and that he’s only good the first time through the lineup. Mitchell’s stuff plays well enough as it is. The problem is he can’t control it. And the first inning seems to be the inning that gives him the most trouble so I don’t think only getting to see him once will stop teams from teeing off on him.
Kwflanne
It will be interesting to see if they keep Lyles in the rotation, with the contract they signed him to…. he won’t be going anywhere off the major league roster. If he is only making a spot start barring a prospect call up, then goes back to the bullpen…. what role does that leave Mitchell with? Erlin and Lyles will be the long relief roles (rightfully so) which leaves Mitchell for what? Situational relief? That’s not a promising prospect for a pitcher with control issues… to be called into the game in the 6th/7th inning with men on base… or maybe they leave Lyles in the rotation with Mitchell staying as long relief.
i don’t think Mitchell will work in the bullpen either, which is why I originally suggested he should just be DFA… but 95 comments later… that was not a popular opinion
padreforlife
How can AJ Preller still have a job? Oh Hot Lava
SanDiegoTom
As a fellow padres fan, I agree. I’ve had enough of preller and losing.
Kwflanne
I am absolutely torn on AJ Preller in terms of his GM grade. However, I think he needs to be given a couple more years… to see if the young talent proves to come to fruition or not. Pros and cons: PRO: he has built a farm system ranked highly throughout the game. CON: a lot of that talent is still very low in the minors and may not ever be actual MLB talent (no guarantee with any prospect). PRO: he has maintained a quality bullpen at the major league level, a staple of this organization, after taking over as GM. CON: he hasn’t fielded a quality major league roster of position players yet. PRO: he GREATLY improved our outreach and signings in international pools. CON: he has made some pretty poor trades at the major league level that haven’t panned out.
From the time he was with the rangers, he was hailed as a hard-working, dedicated, talented baseball eye of talent. That is much different than being a GM though. I started to feel as though he would make an excellent scouting director/player personnel development, as opposed to a GM… but I’ll give him a couple more years before passing my final judgement.
This much is for sure… with Margot struggling (his trade), Myers inconsistencies at the plate (his trade), Renfroe essentially banished to a platoon role, Cordero (not his signing) starting to hopefully show some life…. Preller really needs one of HIS guys to perform at the major league level, and fast. Luchessi and Lauer were his picks… and are doing ok so far…. but he needs to throw a lineup together at some point here soon…
padreforlife
How about lack of productivity from Hosmer for 144 mil? Bad trades. Preller been here 4 years all he can say is good farm system? Lucchesi and Lauer ok that’s 2 guys who lowly have TJ soon what else?
RedRooster
Thanks for the hard-hitting analysis Johnny Superscout!
mrpadre19
You guys are arguing service time and when to bring up prospects like there’s a perfect answer for all prospects.
Sometimes it’s best to leave them down for a few weeks……sometimes for another full year….other times it’s better to go ahead and bring em up.
Depends on the major league alternatives…..it depends on the 40 man roster(who’s on it and who isn’t).It depends on who on the Ml roster has minor league options to make room…..or if someone needs to be DFA’d.
The point is……there isn’t ONE definitive rule to when to call up a prospect.
Urias is a good example.
Is he ready and would he be an improvement on what we have now?
Yes.
But is it wise to bring him up in a season where we will lose 90+ games just to give him some seasoning?
Maybe…..but when?
It’s not as simple as just “bring them up when they’re ready”.
RedRooster
For the moment it appears they are keeping Urias down both to make sure he’s 100% back from the injury he sustained early in the season and to keep him from being a Super Two.
On Lucchesi, because the Padres aren’t going to contend this year, having Erlin in the rotation over Lucchesi for four starts really wouldn’t have hurt them but not having Lucchesi on the team in 2024 (or available as a trade chip) will hurt them.
Kwflanne
That’s assuming luchessi holds down a rotation spot with the likes of Lamet, Quantrill, Espinoza, gore, Morejon, Baez, Lauer, Allen, and others…. there’s not really any guarantee luchessi (or any of the players listed) will even be on the roster due to performance or trade possibility, by the year 2024
RedRooster
Having control of his 2024 season has only upside for the Padres. If you don’t see that then you’re a lost cause.
Kwflanne
First of all, someone disagreeing with you doesn’t make them a lost cause. As stated, Preller is far more adept at making that decision than either of us commenting in a message board, and the service time and 2024 didn’t seem to concern him too much. Otherwise, like you said, Erlin would’ve gotten the starts.
thats all predicated on the success you’ve seen now though, right? But you wouldn’t have seen that success to make that judgement if he wasn’t brought up. Point being, with some prospects, you have to see if they will even succeed at the level. Luchessi and Lauer don’t exactly have dominating stuff. Agreed? There wasn’t any guarantee they would pitch well. There still isn’t, it’s been one month. If (obviously I’m hoping not) luchessi/Lauer end up getting hit and their stuff just doesn’t play consistently at this level…. what does control of them in 2024 really matter? Erlin wasn’t brought up immediately… are we thrilled to have control of him now? We have control of Mitchell now also…. is that something that makes us better?
It’s not a lost cause. It’s a difference of opinion. I think it needs to be taken on a case by case basis. It’s not as though if gore were to mow through the minor leagues, I’d want him called up immediately. No, obviously not. There are some players worth protecting that extra year of control. Some you can get by without.
RedRooster
Having an extra year of control of Robbie Erlin and Bryan Mitchell isn’t hurting the Padres. And if Lucchesi can’t stick in the rotation, having control of his 2024 season won’t hurt the Padres. But if he does stick, not having control of his 2024 season DOES hurt the Padres. And calling him up 3 weeks later wouldn’t have made him less likely to stick. Keeping him in the minors the extra 3 weeks was pure upside for the Padres. Unless you can come up with ONE objective thing the Padres gained by having him in the Majors to start the season other than a meaningless win or two this will remain a fact whether you like it or not!
padreforlife
Preller adept? At what being terrible?
Kwflanne
Not my point at all… actually word for word what I said was that each prospect should be handled on an individual basis in regards to being called up/service time/etc
RedRooster
Yes and Lucchesi the individual prospect should have been called up 3 weeks later.
Kwflanne
Let me ask something…. if that’s how we handle any prospect who is ready… to just wait theee weeks with every prospect… we are starting a season with a rotation with at least one person we know doesn’t belong there in three more weeks. do you understand the effect that would have on your 25 and 40 man rosters? On your payroll? Because where are you putting that temporary three week starter afterwards? You can’t do that year after year… prospect after prospect.
RedRooster
Easy. You are putting him in the bullpen, on the waiver wire or in AAA.
I’ll say it again. No good prospect should ever finish the season with x.000 years of service time.