Over at The Athletic, Pedro Moura held a fascinating conversation with Angels slugger Justin Upton. (Subscription link.) There’s plenty of interest in the chat, though Upton’s comments on free agency are of particular interest and relevance. The thrust of his sentiment is that teams seem to be looking to score free-agent value rather than identifying and “courting” players they actively wish to employ. “Teams don’t value players as people anymore,” says Upton. “They value them as a number on a sheet of paper.”
Of course, Upton forewent a chance at returning to the open market by agreeing to a deal with an organization he was comfortable with. Here’s the latest on the unusually high number of quality free agents still not in camp and other market notes:
- The likelihood remains that the Rays will enter the season with Chris Archer on the staff, Jon Heyman of Fan Rag reports among other notes. That’s due in no small part to the team’s lofty asking price; one rival executive suggests that the Tampa Bay front office “wanted our whole farm system” to move Archer. The club has given that impression publicly, too. Senior VP of baseball ops Chaim Bloom reiterated that the expectation is to hang onto Archer and others in an appearance on MLB Network Radio on Sirius XM (Twitter link). He added that the internal expectation is that it will begin to reap the rewards of an effort over recent years to bolster the farm depth while still trying to compete at the MLB level.
- It has remained interesting to consider whether the Nationals might pry catcher J.T. Realmuto from the Marlins. But there isn’t much recent indication of serious talks, and Heyman indicates that’s due to what seems to be a big gulf in the sides’ valuations. Washington won’t give top prospects Victor Robles and Juan Soto, per the report; while the club might part with young infielder Carter Kieboom or outfielder Michael Taylor, it seems Miami was asking for too much additional talent to be included in a package.
- The outfield market has certainly delivered some surprises thus far. Heyman says Jarrod Dyson spurned an early two-year, $14MM offer, though a source tells MLBTR that is not accurate. Dyson ultimately signed for $7.5MM with the Diamondbacks. It remains to be seen what’ll happen with players such as Carlos Gonzalez and Jon Jay, each of whom were rated among the fifty best free agents this winter by MLBTR. Heyman says the Indians are still looking at right-handed outfield bats, though it would surely be a surprise for the team to plunk down any meaningful money to make an addition. Perhaps the trade route could still hold some surprises, though that’s pure speculation on my part.
- Veteran reliever Greg Holland might have overplayed his hand in spurning the Rockies earlier in the winter. Colorado was willing to give him something approaching the three-year, $51MM deal the team ultimately inked with Wade Davis, Bob Nightengale of USA Today suggests in an appearance on the podcast of Patrick Saunders of the Denver Post. It’s premature, perhaps, to declare that Holland won’t be able to top that number, though it’s frankly difficult to see where that level of interest might come from — as MLBTR’s Steve Adams has recently explained.
- Holland’s list of suitors is in question at the moment. One thing that seems clear, per Heyman, is that the Cubs aren’t planning on making a surprise run at the closer. Rather, Chicago seems largely committed to utilizing Brandon Morrow in the ninth inning and is likely to hold back its remaining payroll reserves for potential mid-season additions.
- So, how low could the remaining pitchers go? Presumably there’s a point at which some bidding would occur. But it’s notable that, per ESPN 1500’s Darren Wolfson (podcast link), the Twins expressed interest in Lance Lynn in the range of just $10MM to $12MM over two seasons. Just how that level of interest came about and was expressed isn’t clear. The team has also made some fairly notable recent commitments and may just not have much more payroll flexibility. And it certainly shouldn’t be taken as evidence of Lynn’s current market value. Still, it’s interesting to learn that’s the current extent of Minnesota’s interest.
david letterman
Indeed
thebluemeanie
Quite
customcrown
Lmao $12mil/2yrs
sandbagging those free agents haha
Definitely, not maybe
brewcrew08
It was 2/20-24M range for Lynn. His agent is looking for a sucker like you who thinks he’s worth more than that.
dirtydan
Why can people on here not comment without being a miserable jerk to other people. Try being nice to people for once.
Mill City Mavs
Thanks dirtydan. You’d figure with the responses and complete utter garbage spewed on here we’d be arguing or discussing religion or politics. The world of internet tough guys is a sad sad sad place man. I dream of a world where you actually read an article and intelligent people debate the material in the comments. Unfortunately this is America. F yeah Walmart Mickey D’s and nascar baby. Give me my guns!!! Baseball is my only distraction from these maggots. So while we’re at it quit trying to process this sport like American spam manfred. F the people who can’t sit still for more than 10 minutes without prescriptions.
Pablo
The way I’ve read it in several places including here is they only offered $6m a season for Lynn or 2/12
twins33
Wolfson updated his comment and has since said it was more than 2/12. He doesn’t know what the offer actually was though.
Cardinals17
I’d sure like to see Lance Lynn back in a Cardinal uniform for 3/30! He’s definitely worth that and more.
ThatBallwasBryzzoed
It’s gonna be funny when the brewers sign Lynn to 5/120 with an option for a 6th and 7th year. He’ll be the ace as their 4th #3. They don’t have an ace and haven’t since Ben Sheets. Brewers finish 70-92. 4th place. Just ahead of the reds at 65-97
MakinCookie
You must be out of your ever loving mind if you think Milwaukee would give that to Lynn. They likely wouldn’t even give that to Arrieta or Darvish. You also forget Greinke and Sabathia if you think Sheets was their last ace. I also have no idea how you have them getting 16 games worse this year when they upgraded their offense. Only knock is Nelson out the first couple months. You are either a hater or a Cubs fan…or both.
matanzas1962
Lynn is a good pitcher when he is in shape. With the Cards he has issues with his weight. The last picture I saw of him he looked overweight. If he is in a shape(?), he could have a good season especially on his second season after TJ.
trendysayings
This offseason really is a perfect storm of misery for free agents. There’s more teams undergoing full-scale teardowns than usual, and you also have teams at the top that can’t spend money without exceeding the luxury tax threshold. This is going to be a huge coup for certain teams when they can sign the remaining free agents at a massive discount, and it’s hard to feel bad for unsigned free agents who turned down offers earlier this winter. You also have guys who rejected QOs like Cobb and Moustakas who have an even smaller market, as rebuilding clubs wouldn’t even consider signing these guys at a discount because of the loss of a draft pick and international spending money.
aff10
Agree with all of that. I also think that the clear talent gap between the teams at the top and the teams below has had a real impact. On paper, 4 of the 6 divisions seem like locks. Things happen, obviously, and some team will probably disappoint, but it’s hard to see that happening right now. So the mid-level guys are left out in the cold, because the rebuilding teams won’t punt the draft pick on them (Hosmer excepted, but he was always viewed as a special case), the super teams don’t need them, and how much sense does it make to drop $60-70M on Lynn or Cobb to ever-so-slightly increase WC chances for the teams in the middle?
I think it’s worth noting that the divisions that seem contested have had action. Cubs signed Darvish, Brewers signed Cain, Cardinals traded for Ozuna. Red Sox signed JDM, Yankees traded for a $235M contract. I don’t think teams are done spending, it’s just a weird competitive landscape right now.
chgobangbang
What is the date QO decline FA can sign and teams don’t lose draft pick? Is it June 1?
CoryM
After the draft, I believe
rez2405 2
I think you’re right it is June 1st
randomness lez
yeah, but somehow it’s still Peter Angelos’ fault.
brucewayne
If Holland turned down 3/$51 from the Rockies , then he’s an idiot!
kidaplus
“Teams don’t value players as people anymore,” says Upton. “They value them as a number on a sheet of paper.”
Believe that’s commonly known as having a job.
hiflew
You need a better job.
Sharocko
Better job? How do you know that kidaplus doesn’t thoroughly love his current job? The only one B—with-an-itching is Justin Upton based on his own comment.
hiflew
I thought that was obvious, but I’ll spell it out for you. If kidaplus thinks being viewed as a number is a common occurrence in a job, that is probably how his job is. In my opinion, that is not a good quality of an employer. Therefore, in my opinion, I think he needs a better job or at least a better employer.
Sharocko
I thought mine was obvious too…but where we difer is your assuming (“probably how his job is”)…where I’m saying the only one who is CLEARLY complaining about their job is Justin Upton based on his own comment.
Sharocko
“Therefore, in my opinion, I think he needs a better job or at least a better employer.”
Tell me again…Why shouldn’t that apply to Justin Upton as well?
brewcrew08
I find it funny that hiflew doesn’t think employers are only concerned about bottom lines. It’s called business. You might be great friends and have a perfect relationship with your boss. However that will not net you more money because you’re a great person. It is 100% based on employer needs and employee performance. Just as it should be in baseball.
MilTown8888
If you think your job does not view you as a number then you must be pretty gullible. If you disagree then go ask your employer for a raise.
EndinStealth
Every employees views their employees as numbers first. Welcome to the real world.
jb226
He’s not wrong though. If you’re not performing as “numbers on a sheet of paper,” by whatever metrics your employer evaluates those things, then you’re going to be out of a job. You are an ROI whether you are an MLB player or an office worker, and if that ROI doesn’t make sense–because your return is too small or the investment too large– It doesn’t matter what a great personality you have, how funny you are or what a nice smile you have.
That doesn’t mean your employer doesn’t care about you, doesn’t like you or doesn’t value the things you bring to the table that can’t be quantified. It just means that there is a job to be done that needs doing and they’re going to fill it as wisely as they can.
hk27
There is something profound about Upton’s sentiment that applies to every workplace: many people would be happy working with coworkers they like in a comfortable environment as long as they make decent money, ie most people are willing to give up some money for a nicer workplace. But, often, people don’t get that chance–too many workplaces get too cutthroat. Since your workplace will always be lousy, you might as well maximize the money you get, and the cycle becomes vicious. Granted, Upton did not give up much, if any money, but if you get a chance to find a happy workplace, you shouldn’t trade it for a chance to maximize your income.
Keeping employees happy and loyal rather than treating them solely as production-value metrics has become a lost art, baseball or otherwise. This is sad.
MooseMichaels
You can thank Advance Analytics guys for that. Reducing it solely to just a numbers game which it is since baseball is a business. However there is some truth to what he says. Bad make up guys had a harder time finding/keeping a team. Now it’s like it doesn’t matter. It’s like this chase for power. A guy can hit .205 but as long as he walks and hits 40 bombs, who cares? I hate that attitude.
darkstar61
“A guy can hit .205 but as long as he walks and hits 40 bombs, who cares? I hate that”
You mean like Gene Tenace, Rob Deer, Darrell Evans, Dave Kingman, etc?
…yeah, I too hate how modern stats advancements have meant guys like that are having 15+ year careers in the game…
JFactor
Chris Carter would like you to be his agent
chesteraarthur
Power is a really weird skill to try to make this argument about. Look how cheap power has become to buy.
Dad
Spot on, I have traded a great working environment for a brinks truck( well to me almost $100000 a year was a brinks truck)
Worst job I ever Had,The people running it sucked.The more money wasn’t worth it. Back to Labor now I’m better off
hiflew
I agree with Upton. I know I am showing my age here, but there was a time when a handshake agreement was sufficient (to an extent) between employer and employee because they knew each other and trusted each other. Now you have so many middlemen and representatives, such as agents and lawyers and hangers-on and assistants (on both sides) that not only can you not have trust, but deception seems to be the rule not the exception. Of course there was deception in the past and conniving, cheap owners as well. Maybe its just rose-colored nostalgia glasses, but it just seemed simpler.
By the way Mr. Todd, nice use of the word forewent.
User 4245925809
” I know I am showing my age here, but there was a time when a handshake agreement was sufficient (to an extent) between employer and employee because they knew each other and trusted each other.”
Ah yes, before the day of trial lawyers and mostly, union reps looking to argue for every little thing that they could take up before arbitration.
Family owned small businesses abounded everywhere also made those hand shake agreements possible.. those days are gone and basic greed has taken over on the part of both side. some of us have seen it over the years.. not a pretty sight has it been?
Matthew C
Yeah and so are a livable wage. When people start arguing against another employee to make money so that the employer can keep it (as happens in sports all the fn time) you get here. Handshake deals were made partially because a union fought for better wages rather than allowing the business to keep all of the profits.
MooseMichaels
Not only that but the MLBPA pretty much gutted any power it had in the last CBA. Now owners do as they please, refuse to spend money in a race to the bottom and the poor on the field product will result in fewer tickets sold which is bad for everyone. Manfred can just enact what he will and he is ruining the game with all this tinkering.
darkstar61
“Now owners do as they please, refuse to spend money in a race to the bottom”
Players are making, when all things are considered, roughly 55-56% of revenue – near the highest it’s ever been
So yeah, I agree, poor players receiving right around the highest percentage they ever have. It must be so hard for them, knowing they can’t take every single penny from the owners. Hope they can somehow find a way to survive off the measly millions they make for playing a kids game tho…
jd396
It’s the players’ tactics that drove the bulk of the league away from free agency, there’s the starting point for your supposed race to the bottom. Why not race to the bottom, if you’re not one of the top handful of teams in revenue you have to go through dramatic rebuild-compete cycles if you have any chance at all.
Matthew C
I’d love to see where you got that stat because I’ve seen a schedule that indicates it’s much lower .
darkstar61
@Matthew C
You referring to my post? Because, if so, here you go:
“According to MLB’s data, the players’ percentage of revenue has hovered within 1.5 percentage points of the 50 percent mark for at least the last eight seasons. The discrepancy between these numbers and the figures from FanGraphs and Deadspin is attributable largely to the table’s inclusion of player benefits (which in 2018 will amount to $14,044,600 per team, or $421.34 million leaguewide) and postseason shares, which totaled $84.5 million last season. Add in the earnings of baseball’s chronically underpaid, nonunionized minor leaguers — the sport’s only true paupers — and the players’ share of revenue rises to more than 56 percent.”
theringer.com/mlb/2018/2/21/17035624/mlb-revenue-s…
The article goes on to include this portion;
“While the union’s beleaguered leadership has some incentive to sugarcoat the players’ position, one would think that if MLB were grossly distorting the present state of the market, Clark and Co. would dispute Manfred’s declaration, and the data above, rather than leave the rebuttals to writers. Instead, the MLBPA has allowed the commissioner’s “50 percent” assertion to stand.”
…which I think it important as it highlights that Clark&Co are trying to dupe the uniformed into taking a positon similar to the one so many uniformed are taking and make that argument out in the public on their behalf so they don’t have to; with that position being “owners are bad, give players more money!” (despite players bringing in as much as ever right now and Clark&Co not even disputing that)
User 4245925809
Can remember the longtime owners of original Washington Senator franchise that moved to Minnesota.. Griffith family.. Was forced to sellout because could no longer pay modest salaries of the game in the early 80’s and THAT family had owned the franchise for 50 years..
How is that keeping all the money for themself? Bill Veeck, probably the greatest showman owner in baseball history for putting on wild promotions couldn’t afford to stay in the game in longer and was forced to sell his last franchise..The Chisox in the late 70’s as a definitely NOT rich owner, but a poor working guy who had put every dime into buying both franchises he had owned.
Charlie n”O” tried to sell off every player he could because couldn’t afford to pay them before they walked via FA in ’76 and commisioner bowie kuhn stopped him.
No.. Not all the old time owners were rich.. Greatest and most famous owner of all time.. Connie mack wasn’t rich by any means either. he had to let his 2 best players go in lefty grove and jimmie foxx in trades because couldn’t pay and he managed/gm’d his own team.
Study the game and it’s history please everyone before making bold statements that are not true.
chgobangbang
Sounds like uptons agent was ahead of market and didn’t get too greedy by signing early
Priggs89
Wrong. Upton, not his agent, was the one that made the decision to sign early.
Sharocko
“Teams don’t value players as people anymore,” says Upton. “They value them as a number on a sheet of paper.”
All I gots to say is…for $106 million @ 5 years…
…I wish my job valued me as a number, and I’m sure that I’m likely not the only one.
22222pete
Of course they do. We refer to you and your coworkers as Head Count. Your salary is what we want it to be, a number most are not happy with as there are others who will be happy to replace you and can do the same job.
Not a lot of Uptons around. Different reality
Sharocko
Here’s my reality and not the one you sssume…I actually love my jobs for the pay I make and don’t believe my job is anything remotely close to the way you define it.
I’ll say it again…the only that seems to be crying…is Justin Upton…and if he doesnt love his job enough to play for what he’s paid…maybe he should move on.
hiflew
We? Are you one of the overlords that defines life for us “little people?”
Sharocko
The only thing I can define based on your comments…is that you are truly big on assumptions, friend.
kbarr888
Not for nothing…..but let’s talk about “Business” for a few minutes……then think about the fact that “Owning A Baseball Team IS A Business”.
A business runs similar to machinery…..many moving parts, and ALL parts are required for the machine to run. One part stops, and depending on which part stops……the machine either needs a repair or a complete overhaul.
Some business owners fix the machine with Factory Replacement Parts. They are more expensive, but typically ensure that the machine will run better….and need fewer repairs.
Other owners go to discount stores and by generic parts. They cost less, are probably not as efficient, and don’t last as long, but they still allow the machine to operate. Parts are replaced “more often”.
Employees and owners are all “Parts” of the machine.
I chose to run my business more like the 1st example. It meant that I got higher quality workers, who were happy to come to work and be “part of the solution”. My whole company didn’t gross $105 Million over 5 years…..and I had 8 employees.
Upton is just a cry-baby, who has underachieved his entire career (save a year or two)…..and has been over-compensated for his “contribution to the machine” most of the time. In Baseball……Players are the Commodity.
It’s not a charity. It’s not a church. It’s A BUSINESS.
brucewayne
That analogy is exactly why the game is being ruined !
brucewayne
Before you come back with another stupid post , I’ll go ahead and answer it for you now! Because it’s taking all the FUN out of the game!
22222pete
Lets make sure we all know these are “alleged” offers. Looking ahead MLB recognizes the possibility of a collusion grievance and maybe laying the PR groundwork.
Throwing around numbers is not an offer. Serious offers are made in writing. Hesitating to accept the first number thrown at you is not “spurning an offer”
MaverickDodger
I am curious as to how the Union or the press can truly get to the bottom of the Collusion Theory. It is true that an offer is made in writing and the Union gets reports of it. However teams have to negotiate with agents to get to that point in the first place. Plus if teams essentially know their offer won’t be accepted, there doesn’t seem any point in submitting a formal offer.
Even with as much as I like to think I know about the business of baseball, I can’t tell anyone or predict how GMs go about contacting agents and players to gage their interest. So I can only wait for more information.
brandons-3
They can’t unless they uncover hard evidence ie an email, text, memo, recorded conversation, etc. Collusion charges are pretty cut and dry. If there’s no hard evidence, even if they are which I don’t think so, there’s no case.
timtim007
Holland said no thanks to 3/51? I bet he wishes he had a time machine and could ask for a redo. 3 years is the maximum for fickle closers with their up and down reliability. No one is a 100% 9th inning guarantee.
One Fan
Haha yes after Boras told him to hang tough for the 4th year he was promising to get
BlueSkyLA
He was very poorly advised to turn down the qualified offer, if that’s what happened, and some of us said so at the time. The number was very much in the neighbor of what the top closers were getting and it seemed improbable that he’d get a better offer.
pinballwizard1969
Since the new CBA prohibits teams from making players a QO 2 yrs in a row: Cobb, Lynn and Arrieta should all consider 1 yr deals now it may off for the them next winter when they would become FA’s
kbarr888
You make an excellent point……if you’re looking at it from the employee perspective.
Teams don’t benefit at all from a 1-yr deal with any of them. The Team gives up a ton to sign them for just one season. That’s a major factor why some players are “still looking for jobs” (like Moose and Holland).
That’s all figured into the “cost of a player”…….and is typically spread out over several years to make it more palatable. The salary of that player would have to drop “significantly” to make the numbers work in a 1-yr deal.
That’s why teams are discussing 3-yr offers.
chgobangbang
On flip side teams signing them for one year don’t want to give up that draft choice for only one year of control
darkstar61
Which is almost certainly why Lynn has an offer “in the range of just $10MM to $12MM over two seasons”
This off season may just be a lesson to players – you get a QO, you should really think about taking said QO.
User 4245925809
Which is quite possibly why a lot of over priced boras guys have not yet signed as all of his big name guys are attached to so called compensation and he cannot get any team to lose draft choice compensation any longer since even the NYY.. Who sometimes didn’t have draft picks 1-3rd round due to FA signings years back.. To sign one of those 1y deals and bale him out of his mistakes in pricing and contract offers from the fall spurned.
hojostache
This would be a good time to mention the horrible Cuddyer signing by the mets a few years back. They gave up #10/#11 pick (IIRC) for 1 year of Cuddyer. Sure it was a 2yr deal, but that was a huge mistake that only improved slightly when they bought out his 2nd year.
maxgjr
I can’t believe the Nationals are being so stubborn about the Realmuto situation. I understand not wanting to give up Robles, the guy could be a Carl Crawford or Starling Marte type player, and he will be Bryce Harper’s replacement after this year. Juan Soto however, that’s just absurd, Soto has only played 83 games in the minors and he’s 2-4 years away from the big leagues. Realmuto is a young top 5 catcher with 3 years of control and making next to nothing.
This is an all or nothing year for the Nats. Are they even aware of the fact that Harper, Murphy, and Gio are leaving? I can’t see them giving Harper 40m a year. The Phillies and Braves will have all the money in the world to spend, no way Harper doesn’t go to one of them. Zimmerman isn’t getting any younger neither.
Bocephus
Why in the world would Harper sign in Atlanta? They won’t be competing for a division in 2019 and neither will the Phillies.
maxgjr
Because both of those teams should be willing to give him the 40m he wants, they will both have their payrolls around 50m. Not to mention they’re both stacked with talented players, both have top 5 farms. Enough prospects and money to get whoever they want.
On top of that if you think a 26 year old will pass on millions of dollars for a better chance at a championship “now”, then you’re out of your mind.
Bocephus
First off you have no idea what Harper will get offered this winter. Having a top 5 farm system doesn’t equal winning anytime soon. Actually you’re rather out of your mind to assume what Harpers motivation will be but if so please enlighten us.
maxgjr
It’s called common sense. Harper is arguably the most marketable player in the game. Already an MVP winner and would have had another one if not for his injury last season. He will be a free agent at age 26, and has been rumored to be seeking 40m a year.
Greinke is getting paid 34-35m a year. Assuming Harper has an MVP type season, there’s no way he won’t become the highest paid in baseball.
I'mTryingToGetTheMostDownVotesOnEveryPost
If they want to try and pry Realmuto away from The Marlins, they gotta throw Harper into that deal. No way it happens without him being involved.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
“Teams don’t value players as people anymore,”
They gave him more than $100 million. What is he talking about? I guess they didn’t massage his feet while they gave him the $100 million…?
raef715
i’m not going to make too much out of what one guy says.
im sure there have been a few free agents who simply havent gone to the highest bidder for reasons beyond wanting to be on a winner.
im sure there might be an agent who recommended a player not go to the highest bidder, taking less commission, because they cared about the player as a person.
teams do seem to be looking more at numbers and less about intangibles than ever before, but i dont think you can make a blanket statement like Upton’s. The Phils for one liked Carlos Santana’s OBP but valued him as a person for what he could bring to their young team.
I don’t think teams trying to make more prudent financial decisions should be confused with valuing players less as people. they are valuing them less as players.
atomicfront
Harper is a poor fielding corner outfit. If he has another year like he had in 2016 he is going to be lucky to get 15 million a year. Teams all have analytical departments now they know Harper is over rated by the press. Most of whom are liberal art majors as they sucked at math.
mlb1225
Harper will easily find $20 million a year, even if he has a year like 2016. He’ll be just 26 by the end of the 2018 season. Teams like youth, and he’s very talented and youthful. Plus, I don’t know where you get he is a bad corner outfielder. He’s been rated as an above average outfielder by DRS metrics, and UZR multiple times.
jd396
Get your facts away from my baseless ranting!
Free Clay Zavada
Show me on this doll where Harper hurt you
randomness lez
POST OF THE DAY
Tom
‘If he has another year like he had in 2016 he is going to be lucky to get 15 million a year. ‘
That’s funny. Harper could tear both his ACL’s in spring training, miss the entire season, OR strike out in every single PA of 2018 and he’d still get $30M+ AAV for 10+ years. Teams have been setting up their finances for the past few years just to have the opportunity to offer it to him. Nothing is going to change that now.
“Teams all have analytical departments now they know Harper is over rated by the press.”
That may be true, but they also have business managers who recognize the value of having Harper from more than a baseball standpoint. Signing him will sell tickets, increase TV viewership (and most team’s that are in position to sign him either own or have ownership stake in their TV networks), and merchandise sales.
In terms of business and making money it’s a lot better to go after the player who’s “overhyped by the press” than the one who might be a better baseball player but isn’t as “popular”.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
“Teams don’t value players as people anymore,”
I just remembered…Upton’s union (instead of fighting to raise the minimum salary) fought so that the players would have an empty seat next to them on spring training bus trips (and executive chefs in every club house).
The idea of sitting next to another human being on a bus for an hour was unacceptable to them but “teams don’t value players as people anymore.”
MLBPA was the STRONGEST union on Planet Earth. Now they have their head so far up their own…it’s coming back out of their neck.
jd396
MLBPA was so laser focused on exploiting the financial inequity between the teams in the league to maximize the AAV and years on the top contracts. Unfortunately the more and more that analytics came into play, the more we were able to prove with empirical data what we already should have intuitively known… with few exceptions it’s patently ridiculous to purchase more than 4 or 5 of a player’s free agent years. MLBPA was hoping for some kind of universal trickle down effect but they never have been able to process that the enormous sum of money tied up in dead weight contracts is money that pre-FA stars probably should be earning instead.
chesteraarthur
Absolutely. You bargain to make young players even cheaper then wonder why teams would rather have these younger players who produce (at least) similarly to older free agents.
They drove down the price of alternative options. That they didn’t see this as a possible outcome just shows how poor their leadership is.
Papabueno
Earth to Justin Upton:
1. Your player’s union negotiated the current CBA.
2. How should teams treat multi-millionaire whiners? Like people you say?
3. Angels front office would like to have a chat with you.
mike156
The Union has been focused on the wrong things. The stars are going to get their money. It’s younger players and the “middle class” of free agents who are most vulnerable. Higher minimums, changes in policy on manipulating service time, maybe age limits on team control in the absence of an extension should be things they work on (next time).
jd396
If we replaced stupid outmoded arbitration with a restricted free agency system it would fix a lot of that. Let money flow to guys when they’re actually performing on an elite level. You make a “QO” to a player if you want to guarantee your right to retain him. Otherwise, other teams can make offers on him. If you don’t match or best their offer, they can poach players from you. This would also help the guys that end up in non-tender purgatory every year because they weren’t worth their scheduled arb salary.
jd396
Could just as easily say that players don’t value the fan bases and communities anymore, they just see a number on a sheet of paper.
darkstar61
Or even in those cases where the players do, the Union will pressure the players into taking the biggest offer to ensure other players eventually get every single penny they can too
(one of the more notable instances of this that instantly comes to mind being Jim Thome)
jd396
Oh yeah, they pressure players to go top dollar and heck with anything else. Either Clark or some other official it straight up in an article a few years ago. If my bargaining unit openly said stuff like that we’d get torn to shreds and have an RFP out to replace us in no time.
nutbunnies
Far be it from me to tell Justin Upton how he’s felt in the past how teams have treated him but uh…teams have colluded against players, fought tooth and nail to prevent free agency, barred black players from playing among other things in the past so unless he’s saying that teams from 1994-2016ish were altruistic and only interested in the players’ well-being, I have some news for him.
People whining about “millionaires crying” can KMA though.
nutbunnies
I like Jarrod Dyson, but unless that $14M deal was like 4/14 or playing for the Marlins, I’m wondering what he was thinking turning it down
Christopher_Oriole
I feel like the Orioles should float Lynn a 3/33 offer and see what happens.
driftcat28 2
I want the yankees to sign Holland. That bullpen would be devastating
jd396
He’d end up being the priciest mopup guy in the league
Stuemke17
Well, yeah, teams don’t value players as players anymore. They’ve been tricked into signing players like Pablo Sandoval, Albert Pujols, Josh Hamilton, and Matt Kemp to nine figure contracts with no return.
carlos15
Someone should tell Justin Upton that players don’t value a team as anything more than who is writing their paycheck so it goes both ways.
Solaris601
The Chris Archer sweepstakes have only just begun. I don’t think TB will deal him any time soon. Reminds me of the looooong period of endless speculation and rumors leading up to the eventual trade of Cole Hamels to TEX.
hojostache
The owners took the MLBPA to the cleaners during the last round of negotiations. The players didn’t realize how bad it was until more recently. I understand why the “middle class” MLB’ers are pissed, but they have no one to blame but their own union….who continues to protect the elite players and let everyone else fend for themselves. MiLB players are the ones who get screwed over, but it’s been like that for decades.
CardsNation5
I’m a Cardinals fan and I’m not surprised that Lynn got that offer. Even though he’s durable, he’s only a 5 inning pitcher with So-So control. I feel that he’s more of a Spot Starter/Reliever at best.
brucewayne
Most of the starters in MLB now are mainly 5 inning pitchers ! That’s what the game has evolved into. That’s why the cost of relievers have skyrocketed ! It’s turned into a specialization game!
Weighed
The Rays wanted our whole farm for Chris Archer. Go ahead Mariners… give up the whole farm. Nothing left.