8:34PM: As per a statement released by the A’s, Dr. James Andrews has recommended that Puk undergo Tommy John surgery to correct UCL damage in his throwing elbow. Andrews provided the second opinion after Dr. Doug Freedberg made an initial diagnosis. The procedure would put Puk out of action for an estimated 12-15 months, and it seems likely that Oakland would err on the longer side of that timeline for precautionary reasons.
6:28PM: A’s manager Bob Melvin confirmed that Puk is getting a second opinion but didn’t provide details on the specifics of the injury, MLB.com’s Jane Lee tweets.
5:45PM: Athletics left-handed pitching prospect A.J. Puk was shut down last week due to biceps soreness, and now there are concerns that Puk may have a ligament problem in his throwing elbow, according to FanRag Sports’ Jon Heyman. Puk “was thought to be” looking for second opinions after initial meetings with doctors since his shutdown, which would hint at a larger issue. Another possible ominous sign, as noted by Susan Slusser of the San Francisco Chronicle (Twitter link), is that the A’s themselves have yet to go on record about Puk’s injury, not even to confirm the initial diagnosis.
The worst-case scenario for ligament issues, of course, would be Tommy John surgery, which would sideline Puk until midway through the 2019 season. The A’s have already lost Jharel Cotton to TJ surgery this spring and Paul Blackburn has also been sidelined with a forearm strain, though Puk going on the shelf would represent a big setback for both the club and for one of the game’s best prospects.
Puk entered the spring as the consensus pick as Oakland’s top minor leaguer, with ESPN.com’s Keith Law ranking the southpaw 13th on his list of the top 100 prospects in baseball. (Baseball America, Baseball Prospectus, and Fangraphs all had Puk 30th, while MLB.com ranked him just behind at 32nd on their top-100 lists.) Puk only added to his stature with a strong showing in Oakland’s spring camp, though a rough performance in his final appearance led to the shutdown, and Heyman observes that Puk’s velocity had dropped over his last two outings.
Drafted sixth overall in 2016, Puk had already reached Double-A last season and it was expected he would make his MLB debut at some point this season. After his good start in spring camp, there was even some chatter that the A’s would give him an aggressive promotion right to the big leagues, though obviously now the team will be as careful in possible in getting Puk back onto a mound at all, if possible.
Goddamn it
Is that really necessary ?
As a baseball fan, this is lame. We have all this young talent infusion going on in the league, but have yet to get young Aces. Seems like you have to get TJ at some point if you throw hard. It’s a shame cause this guy is a stud. Alex Reyes was a stud (still could be). Keep seeing young hitters break out, but also shows how fragile young pitching is. Also how valuable a durable 2/3 starter is.
It’s amazing how football at younger ages has changed due to concussions. Granted a TJ surgery isn’t the same as long term effects of concussions but you’d think they’d start looking at the effect of throwing different pitches at young ages has on the arm. Also pitch and innings counts as they develop.
Craziest thing is… tommy John surgery is most prevalent in players aged 15-19. More than half of all tommy John surgeries are performed on players in that age group. The all year round throwing is a big contributing factor. The crazy tournament showcase style competitive youth season is another. So much mileage on young kids’ arms. And for what? A stupid trophy at the 12U level? It’s a shame.
Well that’s all just become a business model to bilk as much moola out of parents as possible and the kids suffer. They should be playing different sports during different parts of the year. Balance is needed and these kids don’t get it. I also think the biggest factor is the ability to identify the issue. Before, a kids arm hurt they just stopped playing.
It’s because velocity is at a premium so everyone just throws lasers on every fastball.
Kids need to throw no more than I would say 80-100 innings a year.
You’re absolutely right, and nothing will change unless and until the baseball community as a whole gets over it’s blind obsession with velocity.
That’s because start trying to throw breaking pitches at way too young of an age! Way before their arms are developed enough to do so!
I threw over 200 pitches and caught 4 games in 3 day tournament once. Had to play first and second for 3 and a half months. It might not sound like much but when you’re eleven and throw as hard as you can everytime it takes a toll on your arm. After I was healed I then proceeded to tear a muscle in my neck while pitching lol.
I’m not sure about now a days but back when I was in select baseball (now known more as showcase baseball) there was a strict pitches limit. 80 pitches was automatic 5 days rest. (Not sure that’s the exact number but that’s an example)
I don’t know about other states, but in illinois’ high school and JH baseball organizations there are pitch limits and required days of rest. The problem is during summer leagues where their parents pay assloads of money for them to play 90 games for coaches that don’t care about their arms. It burns them out mentally and physically.
Something has to be done. In the old days, guys would pitch 300+ innings and not have issues. They need to stop pitching 100% each pitch.
In the old days, they threw one pitch. Puk threw 4 and tried to add another:
theathletic.com/253469/2018/02/25/as-notes-a-j-puk…
Also, Koufax and JR Richard happened, so no idea what you mean by “old days”. 1930s?
Explain Nolan Ryan, Bob Gibson, Mark Fidrych
Uh…Fidrych is a bad example.
You list 2 all time greats, you saying you only want all-time greats playing? Facts are facts: only very small % of pitchers have that rubber arm and can routinely start 30 games in MLB every single year they’re in the league.
Nolan Ryan and Bob Gibson are outliers. They should not be held as examples
Mark Fidrych threw 250 innings as a rookie and then basically never pitched again. Bad example.
There’s those guys now 2. Not 100% sure but I don’t think Schzerer, CC, Kershaw, sale, etc have had TJ and they r all 30+ years old. So the sky isn’t falling. There r pitchers who survive without
Steve Carlton?
Walter Johnson?
Ryan had a tear.
In the old days the Mound was 15 inches high.
It was changed after 1968 season to 10 inches to help hitters. There was only 1 .300 Hitter in the American League and 3 in the National League. When an investigative group suggested to raise the mound to 13 inches a few years ago, the Commissioner shut it down.
Well, in today’s age, kids are pitching all year around with fall/winter ball, and spring/summer ball.
This. Guys need to take time off.
Home runs happened. This is why pitchers have to “throw 100%” every pitch.
You might want to look at baseball history. In the “old days” pitchers got hurt all the time too, but they also just didn’t throw nearly as hard as pitchers do now. Bob Feller was considered the hardest thrower of his time and he broke fairly young – at like age 30.
Watch the documentary “Fastball”. The flawed measurements of the day did not do justice to guys life Feller however science can correct that now. Feller’s “tested pitch” was actually 98.6mph. He pitched until age 37 and missed 3 years while he served in WWII
I think the problem is that, just like every other sport, kids are developing bigger faster stronger and at younger ages. I think this lends to pitchers learning to rely way more on “heat” than actually pitching.
I think this also explains why so many young pitchers are flying through systems then struggling at the MLB level i.e. Giolito, Glasnow, etc.
I also think there is something to what TJECK109 said about researching types of pitches effects on arms at young ages.
You think just maybe, just maybe someone should be asking the question: who is the trainer responsible for this?
No trainer, but his 2-seamer:
theathletic.com/253469/2018/02/25/as-notes-a-j-puk…
Ok, what was the first thing Puk said this spring? “I have a new 5th pitch now!” Annnd there goes your arm that isn’t used to it….
theathletic.com/253469/2018/02/25/as-notes-a-j-puk…
Yeah all MLB pitchers, please don’t be trying to throw more than 3 or 4 pitches at most, yall. Just a recipe for disaster.
2 seamer is thrown the same as a 4 seamer other than grip.. And if you can’t throw a 4 seamer, you won’t be playing baseball…. And you really don’t need to keep posting the same link over and over. Have you ever thrown a baseball? Are you really that uninformed that you think adding a 2 seamer is suddenly going to blow out an arm? Krieky.
It’s the grip that kills the elbow, genius.
But sure I’m “uninformed” lol, you dont know me and you would never say that if you knew what I know. Internet staying disrespectful lol
You are uninformed, or at least appear to be. If you have a source that says two seamers lead to TJ then please cite, that way you wont look like Monday morning quarterback, or in this case starting pitcher. Here I’ll show you how:
Tommy John isn’t related to a particular pitch, it generally correlates to over use and mechanics, tho velocity is a factor. You are not going to do enough damage to your arm in spring training from throwing a 2 seamer instead of a four to warrrent TJ. His arm was already damaged due his pitch load from years of year round baseball and his velocity.
amp.si.com/edge/2016/06/14/fastballs-curveballs-to…
grantland.com/the-triangle/tommy-john-epidemic-elb…
You aren’t seriously claiming that by turning the baseball one quarter turn in their hand, that *this* is the cause of elbow injuries? That’s crazy talk.
You don’t have to have had played the game to have an opinion…
…but you do have to have *not* played the game to have an opinion as uninformed that this is.
Dude….MILLIMETERS count when it comes to tendons and the human body. You keep coming back to how I’m somehow “uninformed” but you yourself are wildly ignoring how the human arm works and how when, throwing a baseball 90 MPH, the SLIGHTEST switch or change can screw everything up. Take a science class and quit being wrong about everything.
Ok now you are coming around to my point
“You are not going to do enough damage to your arm in spring training from throwing a 2 seamer instead of a four to warrrent TJ. His arm was already damaged due his pitch load from years of year round baseball and his velocity.”
Yes, other than he was throwing BOTH 2 and 4, along with THREE other pitches, I agree with all that – ADDITIONALLY throwing a new pitch out of nowhere is what broke him. I never said just throwing that one pitch is what did him in, years of over-pitching and then on top of throwing that 2 seamer, he was mixing in 4 other pitches, that is what did him. God. I cannot believe you morans decided that I thought throwing a damn 2 seam FB broke his arm alone. Do I have to connect ALL the dots for you guys or can you understand baseball enough to understand???
Ok lets review:
“God. I cannot believe you morans decided that I thought throwing a damn 2 seam FB broke his arm alone.”
Maybe because in reply to “who is the trainer responsible for this?” you replied “No trainer, but his 2-seamer:”, and then followed that up with “Ok, what was the first thing Puk said this spring? “I have a new 5th pitch now!” Annnd there goes your arm that isn’t used to it….”, which clearly shows you think he was going to be all fine until he added the 2 seamer. Even in the post above you say “throwing a new pitch out of nowhere is what broke him” immediately followed by “I never said just throwing that one pitch is what did him in”, which is actually exactly what the prior sentence said. So if you’re frustrated that you have to “connect ALL the dots for us” maybe you should try to be more clear and not contradict yourself.
Also you spelled morons wrong.
Pitchers are a ticking time bomb. It’s far more likely that his arm blew out not because of adding a new pitch (which isn’t even a different motion than his existing FB), but the fact pitchers push their ligaments to the absolute extreme. It happens.
Guys are throwing harder than ever.
its not that theyre throwing harder, its the mixing of the offspeed pitches with the hard throwing
justin-turner overdrive……”Throwing is good. Throwing really hard can be bad. Doing some kind of throwing can definitely help build arm strength. We didn’t know this before Tommy — when he’d throw, he could toss OK, but once he got to 75 percent effort, that’s when stress transfers from the muscle to the ligament.”
“I don’t think throwing the curve puts that much more stress on the arm. I think learning how to throw it does. That’s why Little League kids get in trouble. They want to throw a curve so they spend every afternoon throwing to their dads, trying as hard as they can to get it. Then if they’re good, the coach wants to win. If it’s the playoffs, the same kid might pitch three days in a row.”
Bingo!
BTW….those are the words of the late Dr. Frank Jobe
Darn it
It sucks seeing young prospects go down with major injuries. It sidelines them for so long and hinders their development. I happens so often, too. Urias, Reyes, Honeywell just to name a few.
another MET goes down. Always them!
Uh, PUK pitches for the A’s, not the Mets!
One of my favorite players from the 2016 circuit, I hope he can come back strong. Nevertheless, I think he still has an illustrious career- kids an absolute stud and looks like a future cy-young contender.
I remember how upset I was when the Phils didn’t take him first overall.
Such a drag seeing this year after year… hope the kid has a successful rehab and return. This is why it’s hard for me to be too excited about pitching prospects. As a Padres fan, I see a lot of hype/guarantees that they will compete around 2020 when their pitching prospects (which they admittedly do have a lot of high end talent) arrive in the majors. However, prospect rankings could change at any second with a bad year or a lost year to injury. Really makes it hard to get excited about pitching prospects coming up, knowing how common this is becoming. They are one pitch away from being gone for at least an entire season…. it’s too bad
Back in the 1960’s,70’s,and 80’s there were a lot less arm injuries than now.The starting pitchers were throwing a lot more innings,and the long relief pitchers were capable of throwing 3 or 4 innings.There were only 10 pitchers per staff.The speeds were generally 5-7 less mph,and there were many more Jamie Moyer type pitchers then.Players did not pay as much attention to taking care of their bodies throughout the entire year.There was also a WHOLE lot less money in the sport.
I think that after that period some parents started letting their kids play harder and more often if the kid had any real ability.This would include paying for year round baseball and the attendant stress on the body parts that could not be made much stronger like muscles can.
ML hitters are much stronger too now so the pitchers must keep the velocity up and not take pitches off as much as before,especially with the DH in use.
The caveat is that due to medical advances modern players can return from serious injuries whereas they were often career ending 40 years ago.
The disabled list is used much more often now than previously.
It is a shame that these injuries occur,and some organizations seem better than others at preventing them,but they are now truly part of the sport.The better players realize that and can work through the recovery periods especially as they have help from many different sources.
“Back in the 1960’s,70’s,and 80’s there were a lot less arm injuries than now.”
Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. You wrote all that based on a lie, congrats.
justin-turner overdrive….You have issues, issues, issues, issues, issues, issues, issues, issues.
Explain these issues then? The only issues I have are people making up stuff and creating some insanely BS argument created from entirely fake news.
There have been TONS of arm injuries throughout the entire history of the game. Quit believing lies.
“There have been TONS of arm injuries throughout the entire history of the game. Quit believing lies”
Of course there have always been injuries but they have skyrocketed because of max effort throwing and over use as kids. That is fact whether you like it or not. After TJ had his surgery the # of player requiring the same stayed in single digits for years. It has been the emphasis on speed and the abuse of kids arms that has caused the increase That is fact.
Well, the surgery wasn’t remotely perfected and, like in all medical advances, there are many years of trial-and-error before itt was accepted as a treatment.
D. Jobe disagreed. The only thing that is different is surgery time.
static.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/bp/1431308.html
You may want to read Dr. Andrews as well. It is throwing max effort all the time that is killing arms, from kids going year round to the majors.
TJ was in 1974. to suggest that it was not accepted is ludicrous.
cbssports.com/mlb/news/dr-james-andrews-releases-p…
I remember those days and was a big fan of baseball then.I think that there are many reasons for these injuries,including those that have been raised in this chat.No lie involved.
Nope, you are pushing BS lies. There have ALWAYS been injuries – we just didnt have 24-7 media hype about it before.
So you’re saying back in the 60’s, 70’s ‘, 80’s
and so on, that they didn’t publish info on injuries or announce anything on the radio or TV about them either ? That’s ridiculous!
JTO-I think that we should all agree with you since you basically are saying that you are the expert on this subject.In a free country that is how it is done. However,you do not state why you are an expert.If you are a physiologist or medical doctor then maybe you can back up your opinion with knowledge other than just saying it is a fact of science.Otherwise it is the same as the rest of us,just an opinion.I am sorry that you cannot see that clearly.
justin-turner overdrive…..read…learn
mlbreports.com/tj-surgery/
Wise up. TJS went up when fans and teams became enthralled with throwing hard, not pitching here is what causes damage
– UCL injuries in pros usually appear to be cumulative — i.e., much of the damage was done during the amateur years;
– There’s little relationship between elbow injuries and curveball use by young pitchers;
– Lowering the mound probably won’t help;
– Young amateur pitchers who play catcher on off days appear to be at greater risk;
– Pitchers should not pitch with maximum effort at all times, and that goes for side work as well as games;
– Among pro pitchers, participation in winter league baseball is to be discouraged;
– Use of PEDS may make the pitcher’s surrounding muscles too strong for the UCL.
Those are the words of Dr. James Andrews and Dr. Glenn Fleisig of the American Sports Medicine Institute
cbssports.com/mlb/news/dr-james-andrews-releases-p…
I have to agree with smoltz and the interview I herd he thinks the problem with pitchers today is they play ball all year and that’s it. he said he benefited from playing ha football and basketball. then continued on to say them sports helped developed muscles in other areas and coordination. most importantly he said you only have so many bullets in the chamber and when there gone you are (I’m paraphrasing a bit it was few years back when I herd the interview)
On MLB tonight yesterday Smoltz explained how they need to get over the perception that everyone comes back stronger after TJ surgery. He stated the majority of TJ surgeries now are performed on kids 14-18 and the majority never return to normal let alone better.
Well it’s awful funny that Smoltz spent most of his career with the Braves
and they had their pitchers throw on their off days. Leo Mazzone had a much different throwing program than the other pitching coaches did!
Honeywell, De Leon, now Puk all in the same offseason? So disheartening to see it happening to so many young prospects.
It’s going to happen a lot more in the coming weeks
this makes me wanna puk
Just damn! I remember being on the Suck for Puk train…
And here we go!!
Jharel Cotton too…