As sparring continues over the ongoing free agent freeze — see Boras v. Halem, Clark v. Manfred — Bob Nightengale of USA Today takes an interesting look at how he believes the market might shake out for the top available players. His overall analysis and predictions are well worth a look, but a few items of information bear highlighting as part of the market landscape.
- Slugger J.D. Martinez was the focus of a skirmish yesterday in the war of words, with some sparring over the fact that the Red Sox have not upped their longstanding offer — which evidently still stands at a previously reported five-year, $125MM level. Per Nightengale, the only other offer on the table right now is from the Diamondbacks, but it’s just a one-year deal. Clearly, all involved have reason to anticipate that there’d be greater interest than that from other organizations, but it’s a notable point in relation to Martinez’s hopes for generating pressure on the Sox.
- Notably, too, the Red Sox are perhaps still aware of other means of fulfilling their desire for right-handed power. Nightengale says the organization spoke with the Indians earlier in the offseason about a potential deal that would have brought Edwin Encarnacion to Boston. Whether or not there’s any plausible hope of reviving those discussions isn’t clear, though, and the Sox are said not to have been willing to send Jackie Bradley Jr. to Cleveland. Clearly, that’s no surprise, as Bradley is a much younger and more affordable player who still offers plenty of value to the Sox. Indeed, it’s amply arguable that Bradley is a more valuable overall performer than is Encarnacion.
- Top free agent starter Yu Darvish is sitting on multiple five-year offers, per Nightengale. At the moment, he’s still hoping an organization will decide to give him an extra year — or, in a longer-shot scenario, that the Dodgers or Yankees will find a way to move other contracts to open the door to a Darvish signing. For the most part, this seems to represent a continuation of the status quo, as is the case for the other top starters.
- As for Jake Arrieta, we have not heard a ton of public chatter. There isn’t much new, it seems, but Nightengale does suggest that one hypothetical possibility isn’t likely: the incumbent Cubs have “barely even engaged in contract talks” with their former staff ace, per the report. That is not very surprising, of course. The sides already know one another (and their respective bargaining positions) quite well. And it’s clear that, while a reunion has always remained hypothetically possible, both team and player intended to explore alternatives during the winter. Still, it’s notable that they have evidently not circled back around to one another to this point.
bandude
Slow news day in MLB. How many different ways can we be told the same thing?
bigcubsfan
“Ooogaaa booogaaaa yeeeeee” <— There is another way you can be told.
bigjonliljon
No…. that’s pretty much every rumor
lonestardodger
Darvish and Martinez are not getting any better offers than the ones they have already.
herecomethephillies2018
A major injury during ST would definitely lead to a bigger deal for one of them. Think Prince Fielder in 2012.
darkstar61
Very doubtful
They would already not be on the same path as everyone else if they have sat out time during ST. Teams that are connected now will likely have moved on; they cant just wait around forever for them to make a decision.
Then, you would need multiple injuries to create enough of a bidding war to drive the price up over where it ended at the conclusion of the off-season. Well, unless they were seriously willing to sit out a full season if their demands aren’t met – cant imagine they would tho, which means they would have little leverage in the new negotiations that might open up
Reality is, the longer they refuse to sign, the more likely they have to settle for a 1 year deal just to play in 2018
Tom
Really can’t compare the Fielder situation to anyone out there now. It was a perfect storm of events for him. Martinez goes down with a season-ending injury (prior to spring training), and he played for a team with an 85 year owner desperate for a title, very deep pockets, and no concerns over spending that money. I don’t see a desperate team out there, regardless of injury, that is going to significantly up their offer for JDM.
They both overplayed their hand and negotiating power. Once the Red Sox fill their RH bat need somewhere else, JDM will see his market collapse even more, and would love for the Red Sox to be so “inflexible” again.
amishthunderak
Or a major injury to one of them would cost them $100+ million.
CursedRangers
I’d love to see the Red Sox withdrawal their offer to JD. It would be so great to hear a public statement talking about team, and building a winning culture, the legacy of Boston, the World Series championship, etc…
I can’t fathom why they would want that guy on their team after the statements he made.
mlb1225
J.D. better just stop talking about how he wants more, and just take one of the offers that’s on the table. It’s only The Red Sox and D-Backs willing to give him something, and both don’t want to up their offers, and he should realize that.
Brett Stallmann
He “needs” more than $125 million, must be tough in their world!!
chound
I would like it too. Snatch the over reaching hell out of Boras. In the grand scheme of everything, only JDM gets hurt but it would be a huge notch in the belts of the MLB against agents. That said, I’m not against the players but I do have a special hate for the public games agents like Boras play.
pasha2k
Boras is the problem, y’all need to lay off JD. Remember the cut Boras gets if the yrs go up.
jb226
No. Stop absolving the players of their part in this.
They hire Scott Boras for a reason. More to the point, he works for THEM. If JD Martinez, or any other Boras free agent on the market right now told him to accept whatever deal they had, that is exactly what would happen.
An agent is an ADVISER and NEGOTIATOR. Take all the exception you want with the advice he gives and the tactics he uses to negotiate, but that doesn’t change the fact that the player is the boss.
Bocephus
I don’t get why people here act like Boras is holding a gun against these players heads not to sign an offer.
darkstar61
You’re correct.
Boras would hardly be a problem to anyone at all if players stopped hiring him too – both are equally responsible (one is just more public and with a much longer track record of being a massive problem, so he obviously draws more attention)
pasha2k
Boras is more than an advisor, wake up.
pasha2k
Cuz he is
pasha2k
JD better not sign with fans like you here dying to BOO him the first time he goes 0/4. Players are entertainers n should be paid, for the fans enjoyment.
darkstar61
@pasha2k
So in your world, Boras goes against the desires of the players he represents?
That is, as their hired representative in negotiations, Boras absolutely refuses to listen to and do what they want; instead doing whatever he himself chooses?
That’s a pretty insane train of thought you have to concoct just so you can continue to feel warm and fuzzy about players who otherwise have chosen to go out and hire specifically Boras for a very, very specific reason (hint: its not because they are poor, unsuspecting victims being abused by the big bad boogieman)
Bocephus
Yea he’s part of the mob and kidnaps these players and threatens their families if they don’t sign with him. pasha2k come in from the ledge cause you’re sounding pretty crazy.
darkstar61
@Collin Obrien
The funny thing is, this conversation has only been brought up because JD is out in the press b*tching. And he’s b*tching that the Red Sox have not bid against themselves to meet his outrageous demands, not that Boras is somehow misrepresenting him and his desires.
How anyone can seriously try to twist that into meaning Martinez is some poor innocent victim being abused by the boogieman…
Tom
How is Boras the problem? He is an agent, and a damn good one. If you were an MLB player who would you want representing you?
And in this situation Boras has every reason to continue to fight for top dollar and not just accept the new market realities. That would hurt his credibility going forward with other clients/teams.
Boras is the best at what he does. If Tony Clark was as good at what he (tries) does as Boras, then the players would be in much better shape.
pasha2k
It’s the same deal all the time with Boras, if he can’t get the money from Yankees or Dodges, then he squeezes as much as he can from teams. Disgusting!
GeoKaplan
So much you clearly don’t understand about agents, negotiation, or probably much else.
Player and agent ask for X. Team counters with Y. Player and agent are free to accept Y, hold out for X, or work to meet in the middle. Asking for X doesn’t make a player or agent “evil”, or “disgusting”, or anything else. Player is free to ask. Team is free to tell the player to go pound sand. Happens all the time in this country, mostly outside of sports.
It wouldn’t be the worst thing if you learned about the subject before inflicting your opinions upon the world.
TrueOutcomeFan
Disgusting that the billionaires have to pay the people who generate the money. Wouldn’t want that, would we?
bravos14
I just heard two guys on MLB network, Carlos Pena and a writer from Detroit, who knows J.D. on a personal level, say it doesn’t sound like something J.D. would actually say. They both more or less said they have doubts about the statement. I imagine they didn’t want to throw Ken Rosenthal under the bus so they didn’t profoundly dispute it. I personally wouldn’t pay Martinez 5/125, in the right situation he’s worth 4/100, imo.
bosox90
As a Red Sox fan I wholeheartedly agree. Wash your hands of it and address your needs in other ways. Sign Nunez, LoMo and Watson instead and go into 2018 with a deep team that has a ton of bounce-back candidates.
tgovey
I wouldn’t mind the Sox signing those 3 guys over JDM. JDM will not solve all of our problems. Those 3 guys for a couple years is good depth and won’t be putting all our eggs in 1 basket.
bigjonliljon
Agreed
aff10
“The Cubs point out that last year was the first in which (Cobb) won more than 11 games.” Somehow, I feel like they couldn’t care less about his win total, Bob
sidewinder11
It is somewhat indicative of his ability to pitch late into games and to stay healthy though, which are both knocks against Cobb. He still deserves more than what was reportedly offered though
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
It is not indicative of anything.
aff10
He’s definitely a flawed pitcher, I’m not saying otherwise, but teams don’t look at pitcher records to tell them anything anymore. That only matters to some players and fans really (and arbitrators, which is unfortunate)
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
And the BBWAA voters (see Rick Porcello winning the CYA over Justin Verlander a year ago).
g32knights
I think the Phillies will eventually sign Arrieta. 2-3 year deal, maybe next week right before pitchers and catchers report.
mlb1225
I don’t think that would be a smart move for them. It would be better to wait until next year, and use all the money they have on top free agents.
ray_derek
I also don’t think he’s taking a 2-3 year deal unless there is an opt out after 1 year
Tom
The Phillies can’t possibly spend all their money on top free agents next year. Based on their payroll obligations and their spending capacity, they could sign Harper, Machado, Donaldson, and Kershaw, and still come in under their max budget. No reason not to go for Arrieta on a shorter deal if it’s there for them.
ncaachampillini
Wow now you are a verrrrrrry optimistic Phillies fan huh? We all heard it here first folks the Phils are singing everyone next season. Toss in a trade for Trout, add in a swap for Judge and finish it off with a swoop in for Goldschmidt and that’ll complete the Phillies makeover.
ChiSoxCity
Arietta would have re-signed with the Cubs on a better contract than that already.
ThePriceWasRight
the insane part is that the red Sox could have had Edwin last winter for nothing. bow willing to trade away a likely major asset or prospect.
Bennybosox
I don’t know about that. I think they backed off when his initial demands were in the 5+ year ranger over $100M…I think they were shocked to see EE sign for 3/$60 and they’re still salty about it. Obviously, the tactics they’re using with JDM are to avoid an overpay and they’re probably using the EE deal as an example,,,
hozie007
Too many good FA’s coming out next year…no sense in tying up money in a one dimensional guy.
Erik Trenouth
Why would the Red Sox up their offer? You can’t demand more money unless you have a reason to demand more money, such as a better offer from someone else.
fasbal1
The Red Sox stand pat on there 5 yr 125 million deal, aka..they won’t fall for bidding against themselves
mlb1225
If The Dodgers somehow move Kemp’s contract, would they go after Darvish? Imo, I would think so.
bbatardo
Only way that happens is if another team buys prospects from the Dodgers by taking on Kemp’s salary lol
Solaris601
Even if they did somehow clear payroll space (which will require surrendering significant prospects), I don’t think the front office is gung ho to sign Darvish after his horrendous World Series performance.
snotrocket
Matt Kemp’s contract now is a perfect example of why it’s a bad idea to to sign JDM to a long term deal, except for the fact that Matt Kemp was actually a good defensive player when he signed his deal.
norcalblue
I think Jeff Sullivan outlined a scenario that could result in the Dodgers engaging seriously with Darvish on a short-term (1-2 year) pillow contract.
Specifically, if the LAD can package Kemp with a prospect(s) that they might be willing to part with (Wilmer Font, Lux, Farmer…maybe even DJ Peters) and that meets needs of a team that can take on Kemp–well, maybe. That’s a reach. I do not see Dodgers dealing away prospects that they value highly (Ruiz, Alvarez, Kendell, Diaz, White) in order to bring back Yu….he’s just not that valuable to them. Of course, even if those planets were to align–no guarantee Darvish would take such a deal as opposed to the longer-term deals being offered by Twins, Cubs.
It is just not very likely Darvish comes back to LAD.
martras
To eat $40M of salary over the next two years, I think the Dodgers would have to be willing to part with their top 5 prospects.
Cachhubguy
Why would Darvish take 2 years instead of five?
norcalblue
Not saying he would; but, he seems to prefer LAD to Twins or Cubs. If he and his agent convince themselves he can improve and/or the market looks better in 2 years, he might take that deal.
Cashford64
I have to believe that most of these guys would be better off signing one-year deals this offseason and trying again next year.
Yes, next year’s free agents are huge, but obviously only 3 teams (or fewer) are actually landing Kershaw, Harper, and Machado. The others won’t be “saving for next year” anymore. Also, many teams won’t be as badly restricted by the luxury tax threshold as they are this year.
em650r
Sign a one year deal and hope it’s worth it
balloonknots
Boras is bad for baseball – always playing games to make us, owners pass their cost to us, pay more for the product on the field. I know it’s his job but he goes too far.
As far a trade is concern – dodgers want to dump kemp who is still an ok right handed bat
Or the brewers who want give up Santana who is young on up swing and cheap
I say trade for a cheaper or short term solution then hit market next season but don’t cave in to Boras
bigcubsfan
Bohrass Stewpidd is going to destroy baseball as we know it. Oh I just feel teenglee all over when I think about Bohrass I wish the teams would be able to sign players for only $1 million Bohrass!
Tom
Why is Boras bad for baseball? Teams have the money and can spend it. He works for the players and negotiates to get the most money from teams for his players. How is that bad? No team HAS to pay what Boras or his clients want. Only a team with an idiot of an owner will sign a contract they can’t afford simply because Boras is a hard negotiator.
cubbiepatriot21
Boras wants teams to give all of their payrolls to one client. He sees cap space and over-asks for his players. Teams have caved because they could pass cost on to fans. And then many of these deals hurt the quality of teams, overall. None of this means players and owners are not also culpable, but you asked about Boras. For his clients, he is great; for team payrolls and fan expenses, he’s helped balloon costs.
start_wearing_purple
If whatever has been going on this offseason between the player’s union and the owners is comparable to a small fire then the agents and especially Boras are throwing gas on it.
bigdaddyhacks
My offer stands Arrieta. 3/45 Seattle mariners.
Tom
You really thing $15M per year would get Arrieta? At three years there are teams that would easily double that.
bigdaddyhacks
That’s all he’s worth man, believe it or not, it is what it is. Declining metrics, age ect. If someone is dumb enough(and plenty teams are) to give him 30 AAV then I’m sure he’d have taken it. Over inflated salaries are the reason why so many left unsigned.
jdodge22
We can all thank Boras for this winter. Massive over valuing of players. Eric fricken hosmer won’t take a 9 figure 7 year deal??? JD scoffs at $125. The players are insane
bigcubsfan
I agree, Bohrass is making players to expansive.
bigjonliljon
You nailed it. Maybe you should write for this site!!
brewers214
yu Darvish to brewers for 5 years 100 million make it happen Stearns and let’s kick some cubs but DILLY DILLY
martras
I’d be shocked if Darvish wasn’t sitting on a 5 year offer at $125M already.
ChiSoxCity
Dream on brewers214. DILLY-DILLY!
Cachhubguy
Your stadium doesn’t serve Budlight. No dilly dilly for you.
michaelw
There are teams that have better offers than that if that’s what the Brewers offered. It take more than 5-100 that’s for sure. Brewers would never sign him at that and he never go there. Realistically he probably has 5-125
And 4-100 on the board. 6-135 gets him signed tonight
martras
With the Twins losing Santana for the first month or two, I wonder if they go to 6 years on Darvish? I can’t ignore the similarities between Darvish and Lester when Lester signed with the Cubs with a front loaded 6/$155M contract.
Both players were 31. Both players had some elite pedigree in the recent past, but had also shown some recent struggles despite remaining legitimate #1 starters. Both flashed stuff that could return them to the elite ace category. Obviously, Lester had durability and a fantastic contract season on his side, Darvish has more talent and 3 years of MLB revenue growth.
Lester has absolutely worked out for the Cubs and he’s now earning an average of only $20M over his last 3 guaranteed seasons. It wouldn’t seem likely anybody would need to add a 7th “option” year to secure Darvish at this point and the Twins have $30-35M of payroll capacity this year, with $50M+ of salary room next year and beyond.
Cachhubguy
I think the first one to six years, wins.
bosox90
Would the Dodgers trade a couple of their prospects for Darvish if he were on another team signed to a 5-year deal? Couldn’t they conceivably do that by packaging a prospect or two with Kemp in a pure salary dump and then sign Darvish? If so, shouldn’t a team like Detroit jump on this? Pay a chunk of money for Kemp while they don’t compete and get a couple pieces for their efforts. feel like there has to be something I’m missing, as this scenario would appear helpful to both sides.
kbarr888
Newly-signed free agents are prohibited from being traded until June 15th…… it’s been that way for quite a while….. it’s designed to prevent the “sign and flip”
bosox90
I know that. What I’m saying is that the Dodgers have already shown they are willing to trade prospects for Darvish. They essentially could do it again, but not in the same transaction. They move Kemp and prospects for essentially no return, thus creating salary relief to sign Darvish.
martras
The Tigers aren’t eating $40M for a couple prospects. No team in baseball would do something so foolish. Signing bonuses for elite prospects are generally $5-7M each. If you looked at it that way, you’re probably talking about the top 5 prospects for the Dodgers get traded to Detroit.
So sure, if the Dodgers wanted to utterly GUT their MiLB farm system, Detroit (or some other teams) would gladly accept their offer.
steelheader
But if you have a massive budget and a payroll that doesn’t come close why not overpay for some badly needed prospects? Could be the difference between a decent rebuild and a great rebuild.
steelheader
I’ve been wondering the same. Detroit is in a position where their farm is greatly improved but far from elite. After cutting payroll by $100M why isn’t this possibility even being discussed as possible?
Speak da Truth
What the hell is wrong with J.D Martinez? He’s acting like the Sox are the only team in the league. How do you get mad at the only team that offered you 9 figures?
Running his mouth is gonna get him no where. He needs to Stfu and be a man.
The market has changed for players over 30 wanting those ridiculous contracts.
How can they want teams to pay them for past accomplishments? when those numbers wasn’t provided for the team that’s trying to sign you now. So why should they pay you more for work that wasn’t done for them? That’s a stupid idea and the players need to understand that.
If the Sox traded Jbj for Encarnacion plus signed J.D also,that would be the most serious line up they can ever have at this point. But that’s only if Cleveland kicks in some money also towards Edwin’s contract.
Sox gotta do something, cos how the team is constructed now they ain’t gonna seriously challange for a championship. I don’t care how much better guys from last year play.
madmc44
If the Sox traded for EE and the Tribe signs JDM–good for them.
EE loves to hit at Fenway. A middle of the order of Hanley, EE with Devers, Mookie, Bene and Xander–it’s not the Yankee lineup but it can put up enough runs for our pitching staff.
steelerbravenation
Seriously how smart does Tanaka look now
BostonDave
For JD, I would add a mutual option for a 6th year
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
That won’t help anything. Mutual options are declined by 1 side like 99% of the time.
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
Reds Sox should knock $5m off their offer every day JDM doesn’t sign with them.
sufferforsnakes
Tribe trades EE, then signs JDM?
Thoughts?
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
You don’t just get to trade players after outbidding everyone else for them.
sufferforsnakes
Why not?
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
Because if other teams wanted to pay him all that money they would have done so when he was a free agent.
darkstar61
Other teams wanted to pay him even more. They only missed out on doing so because they moved onto other players to spend their funds on, assuming they were not going to be successful in their pursuit of Edwin
Cleveland didn’t really outbid anyone for EE; they were just there still standing with the rose in hand as the dance wound down.
And even in a hypothetical where they had outbid everyone, it’s not as if situational circumstances are not changing constantly – which means a constantly evolving market and price
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
Silly rabbit, if other teams “wanted to pay him even more” they would have done it. The Indians outbid everyone else for EE. Teams aren’t going to give up prospects for a guy they didn’t want when he didn’t cost any prospects. It’s the same as when my Padres traded James Shields. They had to pay half his contract and take back a failed SP prospect and a lottery ticket. The fact that they hit on that lottery ticket is a story for another day.
sufferforsnakes
Just because someone wants to do something doesn’t mean they actually will. Darkstar61 was correct in their assessment, and used the rose/dance perfectly.
darkstar61
———-
“Jon Heyman of Fanragsports.com reports that the Toronto Blue Jays offered their star free agent a deal worth about $80 million over four years. Encarnacion didn’t jump at the offer, which is no surprise given that he is reportedly seeking a contract in the neighborhood of 5-years, $125 million. He may not end up getting quite that much, but Toronto’s offer at least has given other interested suitors a starting point for negotiations.
Heyman mentions the Red Sox as a team connected to Encarnacion on a list that also includes the Texas Rangers, Houston Astros and New York Yankees, in addition to the Jays.
Given that Encarnacion wasn’t enticed by Toronto’s offer, it’s clear that the Red Sox would need to include either more years or a significantly higher average annual salary in order to sway him in their direction. Neither of those options are particularly appealing”
———-
What you are saying just has no relation to actual reality. At all.
Unless you are seriously going to try to argue that if Boston were to withdraw their offer to JD tomorrow (forcing JD to quickly sign with Arizona for fewer years/millions) that somehow Bostons intention to sign him for much more never existed. It did, and everyone knows that would be an asinine argument to try to make – yet here you are trying to make exactly it regarding the case of EE.
Edwin was offered more, with other pursuing teams expecting him to sign for even more years/millions than that.
They all eventually moved on and spent their money elsewhere believing he was out of their price range – only for them to be with the rest of the world in shock when he eventually was forced to sign with Cleveland for what he did. Cleveland outbid no one; they were merely patient and because of it, able to land a steal no one saw coming
snotrocket
Boras is actually surprised that the Red Sox aren’t bidding against themselves?
putginoin25
Take the 5/125 offer from the BSox JD ASAP, and stop this BS that a team will make you a sweeter offer before Boston moves on to other alternatives
madmc44
Wasn’t that the case a few years ago with Pablo Sandoval who was paid $95 M–I don’t think there were other takers other than the Giants and they had strings attached to their offer around his diet and weight.
5 years for $100 with a 6 th year option for JDM. There was a rumor the Sox floated a trade for Encarnacion; -his contract is up after the 2019 season–it was 3 years–$60 M.
Ken M.
Sox sign Darvish and trade Erod for a DH.
tuna411
nightengale speculating an opt out shall be included in a jdm contract.
question: why give ANY player an opt out? ONLY benefits the player.
spartan-i7
JD Martinez has not made an official statement or spoken to the media about this. Not sure why so many people are overreacting to a report that “someone close to him claims he’s fed up”.
gmenfan
So, the owners finally came to their senses and said we’re not paying a glorified DH $125M ? What jerks !
Gotta love groups of millionaires debating about who’s getting screwed over more. Their absurdity is only trumped by that of politicians.
tigertom0210
Incentives and option years… that’s what someone will have to do to get JDM to sign.
Westkycubs
Really disappointed that the Cubs don’t seem to be trying to engage Arrieta in talks. I think he is a better pitcher than Darvish and has proven it. Has less mileage and surgery on his arm and had proven to be a vital part of a championship team chemistry. No matter who signs where one thing I truly believe. Jake is gonna prove all the Darvish over Arrieta folks wrong in a big way the next few years.
kyredsox17
I really don’t want JDM anymore. I’ve had a hard time imagining him on the Red Sox for the next 5 years already, he needs to go play for a city he actually wants to play for. Boston needs to get pitching and Nuñez now; love him as a leadoff and I have doubts on Cora’s idea of Mookie being a George Springer type leadoff. Then, wait and see what Hanley looks like and address a Power Bat during the season.
DCCubsFan
JDM is a defensive liability. He’s not particularly good on the bases either. He’s a DH in a couple years and no one pays $200M for a DH. He ought to shut up and sign with Boston.
GarryHarris
The Red Sox do not need a RH DH. JD Martinez is not an improvement over a healthy Hanley Ramirez. Besides a better pen, they need a high end INF super-sub.
dbec72
Jake will have to circle back to the Cubs because both sides know what the other thinks is a fair deal and I am guessing Cubs at 4yr 90mil and Jake at 5yr 125mil or more.