Much has been made of the Brewers’ crowded outfield and the potential need to trade someone from that mix, but manager Craig Counsell doesn’t see it that way. Speaking to ESPN’s Jerry Crasnick, Counsell described a rotation of Ryan Braun, Lorenzo Cain, Christian Yelich, Domingo Santana and Eric Thames between the three outfield spots and first base that could still get everyone from that quintet ample playing time. “If you split it evenly with five guys, that’s 560 [plate appearances] apiece,” Counsell explained, using a rough guideline of about 2800 PAs over the four positions. “With injuries and everything, we’ll find a way. Some guys will get 500, and some will get 600, but it will work out.” Of course, the Brewers also have Keon Broxton and Brett Phillips on hand, though each has minor league options remaining and could be used as a high-quality depth piece (or a trade candidate — either over the next month or later this summer).
Here’s more out of Milwaukee…
- Catcher Stephen Vogt has been diagnosed with a shoulder strain and will miss the next two to three weeks of Spring Training games, per Tom Haudricourt and Todd Rosiak of the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel. He’ll also be shut down from throwing for a week. As Haudricourt and Rosiak note, the injury could have significant repercussions for Vogt and could very well impact the Opening Day roster. Vogt’s $3.05MM contract, like the vast majority of arbitration contracts, isn’t fully guaranteed. The Brewers could theoretically cut him and be on the hook only for 30 to 45 days of termination pay between now and Opening Day. Vogt is competing with Jett Bandy to serve as the backup to Manny Pina this season, and Bandy is out of minor league options, meaning he’d be exposed to waivers or traded if he doesn’t make the Opening Day roster.
- Also via Haudricourt and Rosiak, Brewers ace Jimmy Nelson is still limited to throwing from flat ground and won’t get onto a mound until after the season starts. The team isn’t giving any sort of firm timeline on when Nelson can be expected to return to the big league club, though the report posits that a return around the All-Star break is plausible for Nelson, who underwent shoulder surgery last September after suffering an injury when diving back into first base.
- Braun got his first work of the spring in at first base and saw plenty of action in today’s game, writes MLB.com’s Adam McCalvy. “There were runners on base quite a bit, so he was holding runners, getting a feel for that,” said Counsell. “He had a pick in the second inning. He had to get in the cutoff position on a couple of different plays. I would say it was a real positive experience for the first day. Some things to put through his head that he can check off the list as experiences.” As McCalvy points out, the Braun experiment at first base will impact more than just the outfield rotation; Braun seeing more action at first could also have a direct impact on Jesus Aguilar’s role with the club, though it’s not year clear how the Brewers will sort out their considerable depth. Aguilar, like Bandy, is out of minor league options, thus further muddling the scenario.
Not to mention Choi who has been raking thus far too.
I know they could send him to AAA but Im just saying based on performance.
Aguilar is an absolute stud though and anyone would be lucky to have him.
Jesus is out of options, which is why the Brewers got him from the Indians last year – he didn’t make the Indians and they couldn’t send him out, so they DFA’d him. The Brewers like versatility, and Aguilar can really only play first.
Indians never really gave Aguilar a fair chance. He was not a Francona favorite.
if Aguilar is not arb-eligible until 2020. How is he out of options??
he’s been back and forth a hundred times dating back to 2014 (I think?). he only crossed rookie status last year
I’ve been high on Aguilar as he has worked his way through the Indians farm system, but calling him an absolute stud might be going a bit far. I hope gets some consistent ABs somewhere though.
Fine, it’s a m-f’ing bad-@$$… what’s the problem?
you answered yourself?
Oh – you meant Choi to AAA. My bad.
They signed him to be the AAA 1B no matter how well he hits this spring.
I’m fine if they don’t trade an OFer. Only if they sign a starter though. Can’t expect to compete with that rotation. I would hope Stearns understands that.
Wouldn’t surprise me if they start Vogt on the DL this season, allowing them to keep both him and Bandy.
Seems to be the right logistical move. Wait until another injury pops up to activate Vogt- essentially run with a 26th man.
How do Brewers fans feel about Thames?
Some like him, some don’t. He was really streaky last year and is at best an average defender. I could see Braun getting more and more time at first as the season goes along, but a hot start from Thames would muddy the waters. You know, Thames and Aguilar combined for 47 homers last year…first isn’t really a position that needed upgrading. They have really changed the dynamic of the team by adding Yelich and Cane.
I really do not get the Cain signing. That money should have been ear marked for a rotation upgrade.
I believe the thinking is you can’t bank on Braun being healthy and villar being good enough to lead off.
I agree with you that I’d rather have an SP upgrade than Cain but I think Stearns thought he’d get a starter for Santana.
They still have enough money available to sign any pitcher they might still want. And Cain is a huge upgrade over Broxton.
I agree. I think it was superfluous after they got Yellich.
They should have simply ponied up to pay Darvish and saved the draft pick. Would have made more sense for their situation.
I agree that it seemed like over kill to get both Yelich and Cain, but they needed high BA and OBP guys for the top of the order and both bring GG caliber defense. They bring more over value to the team (4+ WAR). Plus the Brewers being a small market team, spending big on a SP is a HUUUGE risk. They clearly want to trade Santana for a less costly SP. Brewers clearly want more consistency in their lineup and on defense. I’m fine not spending $100 mil on 30+ year old pitchers. They can’t risk that. Cains $80 mil is actually a hell of a deal for the value he brings. Brewers know “value” is the key for them because they can’t do what the Yanks, Dodgers, etc. can.
The Cain signing makes sense in some ways. he’s only displacing Phillips and broxton and if I had to watch broxton for another year I’d go crazy. They had bigger holes at second and the rotation as you guys noted.
Yelich is a scratcher for me because of santana having the year he had, although it comes with awful defense. Was he worth giving up Brinson and Diaz for? maybe. his contract sure is great for the Brewers. Not getting rid of santana at this point is the weird spot.
I never wanted the Brewers to give up Brinson, but think about it. Yelich and Brinson are very similar players in regards to build and style. Yelich however is already a proven player and just heading into his prime. Brinson is still unproven. Yelich has the potential to become a superstar ready to win now for cheap for 5 years. That made getting rid of Brinson ok and Diaz is expendable because of Huira. Santana can hit no doubt, but the fielding is not good. I like the brewers looking at more overall value. Clearly the Brewers haven’t gotten the value deal they want for Santana yet. Lots of teams could use a RH power hitting OF.
Still a fan of him but I think pitchers have figured him out and we will see a massive decline this year….but I hope I am wrong here.
But I am happy with the guy and hope he proves me wrong.
Thames is streaky, was good every other month in 2017. Left-handed hitter who is awful against lefties. He can play corner of too, which won’t help us in 2018. I think he Braun should take like half the starts at first. Thames could be a good bat off the bench but his streakiness makes you worry about how he’ll perform when he isnt playing every day.
His contract is at market value considering what lomo got, wouldn’t really help or hurt his trade value.
Thanks for the info on Thames. I really want him to do well (except when he’s playing my team). He really looked like a pretty interesting pickup for the Brewers.
They will have some DH games avaiable, as well.
Is Jimmy Nelson really an ace tho?
He was last year. Tough to tell if he can get back to that, though.
Absolutely
No. solid 1a top 20sp though
An ace for his career year. Anyone counting on him to come back and pitch to that level is crazy.
Go to last years game at the Dodgers where he’s pitching against Kershaw. We lost the game but that was when I realized his improvement.
Depends on how many people you’ll apply the ‘ace’ label to. He was a top 15 pitcher last year.
this is shocking- i expected to Counsell to say “we’re screwed- there is no way i can get all these guys playing time and keep them happy. our GM has painted himself into a corner”.
Somebody in the outfield will get hurt, they always do. Guess Vogt will be spending some time in that van down by the river. The indians should have kept Aguilar instead of spending money they don’t have on Alonso who had what, a good half season? Small sample size bites you every time. Oh, and isn’t Braun “in the best shape of his life?”
No. He has become injury prone and requires scheduled days off for a chronic back issue. He’s concerned about all of the work getting ready to play first might aggravate that.
Sorry, I meant that ironically. It’s something players, managers or the press say too much. Weak joke, mea culpa.
That’s OK. I love Votto coming in and saying he got fat on purpose; needed to relax. He will still lead baseball in OBP.
Aguilar was DFA’d last offseason, and the Indians just signed Alonso this offseason. There wasn’t enough of an opportunity for Aguilar to get playing time with the Indians, seeing as Carlos Santana was firmly entrenched at 1B and they preferred the seasoned (albeit expensive) bat of Encarnación at DH.
2800 PAs/position? Not sure that math works, cause that means that each position would get more than 17 PA’s/game.
As a Brewer fan, I can only wish.
4 positions x 700 PA = 2,800.
Math.
I’m pretty sure we all got it. Just omitted one word in the explanation.
The way they wrote it, it would be 2800 PA x 4 = 11200
Math.
Yeah the article says “per position” when it should say “total”
Someone should sue someone.
this is invigorating.
Rhetoric.
All i can speculate it that the brewers are really holding out for the best possible deal. Broxton, Phillips, Aguilar, Santana, and Thames all have varying degrees of positive trade value. Trading two of them for some conbination to fill holes in the rotation, pen and at second could really be a game changer.
Yeah and teams will have greater need as spring goes on and injuries flair up… patience is hard
Nobody wants Santana. Clubhouse cancer and terrible defender. Those guys grow on trees.
Where on Earth r u getting that Santana is a locker room cancer? So being quiet and not being a high energy guy like Brett Phillips makes u a cancer now? Damn things have changed
Wtf? Just trying start rumors about a player you obviously know nothing about
Still a 2nd place pitching staff, if not worse.
I thought Broxton was out of options too. Or did he get a 4th option for some reason?
Turns out he spent fewer than 20 days in the minors one season meaning he didnt lose the option.
“it’s not year clear how the Brewers will sort out their considerable depth”
Ur mum made a similar comment regarding my considerable girth.
I usually dont like troll-esque comments but I have to admit I laughed at this one simply as it was so nonsensically funny.
the effort put in was more humorous than the joke. I laughed too
If only they had pitching.
I like the line up.
I don’t think Sterns was as concerned about remaking the outfield as he was about remaking the offence. The Brewers scoring collapsed in the 2nd half last year and I’m sure he saw what the fans saw. The culprit was strikeouts. Broxton, Santana, Thanes Villar, Phillips…all absolutely terrible, several others not much better. Brinson wasn’t going to improve the situation. It’s no coincidence that both Yelich and Cain put the bat on the ball a little more often than what they’ll replace in the lineup. That’s 2 if the 8 lineup spots, and 2nd base is still open. I think catcher may be as well.
As for keeping everybody for “depth,” don’t believe a word of it. What’s said at this time of year isn’t meant to be believed, it’s simply a cooperative effort with the media outlets to give the fans some reading material. David Sterns will do everything in his power to turn any number of those names into starting pitching. It had to kill him last year to watch his playoff chances evaporate as Craig Council scheduled “bullpen games” every few days. I think he still believes he’s two starters short. I haven’t stopped checking Trade Rumors several times a day and I don’t plan to for a while.
Well conceived posting.
It should be noted that Jimmy Nelson was showing signs of becoming a solid top of the rotation pitcher. His shoulder injury could be devastating. It may be a wise or prudent move to just rehab him throughout the 2018 season and see if he’s able to regain his form, either at the earliest, a mid season addition or with a couple of weeks remaining in the stretch drive, for a playoff cameo, a la CC a decade ago.
Two SP’s, at least one with the potential to be a first game/only game wild card starter would be the absolute dream for the Brew Crew. The Rays Archer would fit this profile to a tee.. but would cost more than a defense first CF’er (the Rays current CF’er is a better defender and a vastly superior batsman), a one year wonder w/30 bombs, a K-machine, and/or a DFA’er from a season ago. The Rays would have one or more of those guys as throw ins..
Yea the Nelson injury was hard to deal with with those bullpen games to fill the hole. I agree on the lineup. They had no top of the order last year after Villar hit the skids. Thames high OBP is great, but not a 1 or 2 hitter. #1 and #2 spots were literally duct tapped together. They are called table setters for a reason. They needed to improve that and they clearly hope to eventually work out a trade for SP.. Strikeouts last year were terrible. I do think the Brewers r very high on their pitching prospects too. I mean a lot of great arms who are very close so they clearly aren’t gunna shoot themselves in the foot with a $100 mil pitcher. They are just waiting for the right trade. Still hoping for Archer. I think Johnson could get him back to where he was a couple years ago.
As a Brewer fan, it’s frustrating to see multiple teams with bad OF situations, and so many others trying to tank, like KC and Tampa, who do have SPs to get rid of, and to come here every day and see…no deals. Think the Tigers could use a Brett Phillips and a Santana and a Luis Ortiz, for Michael Fulmer? If Stearns stands pat with THAT rotation, our window to sneak in a possible title will close sooner.
The problem with this is you are giving up basically the rest of the farm minus Hiura and the Tigers would still say no. Plus Fulmer is coming off of a weird elbow injury that should rightfully shy people away from him until he can prove he is near the cailber starting pitcher he was last year.
Both Fulmer and Salazar with injuries that hurt them being traded for. Also Rays not bending on Archer. Makes waiting till deadline for trade more and more likely.
The Yelich and Cain moves weren’t just made for this year. Sterns isn’t going to make a move that doesn’t make sense for us just to try to win this year. We need to have patience and trust him. In a small market with more limited resources we can’t afford any major mistakes. I’m ok with seeing how this group of starters does and if we’re in it at the all star break we get Nelson back and can even go for another starter at the trade deadline if we want. Suter was better than people remember last year, Guerra was our opening day starter last year and Woodruff was/is? a top 100 prospect with some playoff run starts under his belt now. Maybe those 3 can fill 2 spots?
I agree. The Brewers clearly like the potential of the pitchers they have and they have a lot of good prospects who are close so they don’t want to do panic signings. Yelich and Cain bring huge VALUE both with their overall game, money they are making, and years of control. Fact is though the rotation is extremely questionable compared to Cubs, Nats, Dodgers, etc. Fact is right now their Lineup looks like Playoff contender, bullpen looks like maybe Wild Card contender, and SP looks like .500 team without Nelson for half the season. Davies as a #2 and Chacin as #3 for half the season won’t get it done if they truly want to contend for division this year, but it could get them a WC if all goes well.
Don’t count on Nelson this year and quite possibly ever. Labrum tears for throwing athletes whose bodies have physically matured are career enders. These aren’t ligaments they can piece back together. Suturing cartilage back to the shoulder joint is brutal for a throwing athlete.
It is scary but this labrum tear was different. He injured it diving back into a base, not throwing. I heard a podcast with a shoulder specialist and he said that the tear was on the back side of the shoulder. Typical pitching labrum tears are on the front of the shoulder.
I have reasonable hope that he will be back.
2800 PA per position. Oh, really?