The Yankees were reportedly willing to part with outfield prospect Clint Frazier in a trade for then-Pirates right-hander Gerrit Cole earlier this offseason, but no deal come together between the teams. Although Pittsburgh ended up trading Cole to Houston on Saturday for a four-player package, the Pirates valued Frazier over everyone they got back from the Astros, according to Jim Bowden of The Athletic. However, the Pirates liked the package they got from the Astros better than the offers the Yankees made, including a final pitch from the Bombers that consisted of three prospects, per Bowden (Twitter link).
More from around the game…
- While Red Sox center fielder Jackie Bradley Jr. has been popular in trade rumors this offseason, they’re not going to deal him, Peter Gammons of The Athletic writes (subscription required/highly recommended). Boston’s front office regards Bradley as one of the team’s most important players, as it places great value on his “elite” defense and leadership, Gammons details.
- When the Angels agreed to acquire Ian Kinsler from the Tigers in December, the second baseman had the Halos on his 10-team no-trade list. Kinsler explained to Katie Strang of The Athletic (subscription required/highly recommended) that it was “because of tax reasons.” He also pointed out that taxes led him to put the other California teams and both New York clubs on his no-trade list. Kinsler still waived his NTC for the Angels, though, thanks in part to the presence of good friend and teammate Justin Upton (whom he played with in Detroit). Kinsler revealed that the Halos were the only one of the 10 clubs for which he’d have waived his limited no-trade rights. His interview with Strang is worth checking out in full, as it includes Kinsler’s thoughts on prospects, new teammates Shohei Ohtani and Mike Trout, and the Tigers, among other subjects.
- There are “ongoing” talks regarding pace of play between MLB and the MLBPA, Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic reports (Twitter link). Commissioner Rob Manfred sent the players a formal proposal to consider, Rosenthal adds. The two sides met on Thursday, according to ESPN’s Buster Olney. While Olney regards their dialogue as a positive sign, he notes that MLB has the ability to impose whichever rules it wants, thus giving it all the leverage in negotiations. So, even if talks aren’t constructive, Olney at least expects the league to implement a 20-second pitch clock and limit mound meetings in 2018.
I don’t blame kinsler for the tax reasons.
Of course but even if it was for any reason its his contractual right. Both sides agreed.
Kind of lame imo. When you are making that much money it should be more about where you would like to play than keeping every last dollar.
And he didn’t want to play somewhere with ridiculous tax laws.
Exactlt, when does it become “that much money”? A million? Ten million?
Kind of lame you feel you should be able to tell him how to make decisions?
But, yeah, chastise him for wanting to keep his own money..
Easy to say when it’s not your money the government is keeping. Arod used to make 27mm and his take home was around 14mm. That’s is a lot of money in taxes.
And I’m sure it was hard to live because of that
Exactly. I feel real sorry for them. Not.
The fact is they signed a contract for a certain amount of money in a state that they chose considering tax purposes, lifestyle fit, and winning (sometimes). If they get traded, they don’t make the same amount of money that they SIGNED to make. If someone will give you a no trade clause, you’d be so stupid as a player not to take it. Ian Kinsler gets to play for the team he wants to now because he negotiated leverage and didn’t just end up getting dumped somewhere. I don’t know how many times I have to say this, but just because someone makes more money than you do doesn’t make their opinions invalid. “He makes so much money so who cares what he thinks” is an illogical conclusion. How much you’re paid and how much your opinion matters are NOT correlated.
They’d all be getting paid a lot less if they weren’t playing in taxpayer-funded stadiums that subsidize the entire sport. Longoria got traded on the day the Republican tax bill got passed — he got a several million dollar assignment bonus, a gigantic federal income tax cut for the rich, and a massive inheritance tax cut for his kids, but he still complained about high state taxes.
When you can get all of that while getting traded to a much nicer place to play, while watch 13 million less fortunate people lose their health insurance, you’re an entitled jackass. Used to be one of my favorite players, but I guess he’s just a self-centered blood sucker.
Would you fell different if you made as much money as Longoria? Doesn’t everybody try to make as much coin as possible? I think people have the same gripe about taxes regardless of annual income.
I am a rabid fan but I believe taxes should never be used to build and maintain a ballpark.
Just the fact that you live in America, means the vast majority of the world looks at you like you do Longoria. As hard as it is to admit almost every US citizen is one of the 1 percenters in the world.
I totally agree that taxes shouldn’t be used to subsidize stadiums and ballparks. If taxes are used, the respective cities should get a slice of the pie when an owner sales.
Sorry cursed Rangers – that makes no sense. Like statistically. How can everybody be in the top 1% of wealth, how would you even explain that?
Would such an agreement have to be agreed to by the owners?
Owners from the other teams, I mean.
BBB he put those teams on his list, so he COULD decide where he wanted to go, and not the rebuilding club. So if and when the time came, along with his family they could decide to take the pay cut.
I’m all for Limiting mound visits.
I agree. The NFL is sooooo much more exciting when the team with possession has no timeouts left and needs to score badly. MLB needs to stop the catcher visits (which are like a timeout without commercials).
I don’t want the MLB to be the NFL. I don’t need constant action, baseball has no clock. It is a feature of the game not a defect.
Yeah, but games take way longer than they used to and it’s not due to pitchers getting worse or hitters getting on base way more. The amount of visits and pitching changes slow things down substantially. The guys warm up in the pen, have them throw one pitch from the real mound to get a feel, and then just go. They don’t need 6 pitches or whatever it is when they’ve been throwing in the pen for an inning and a half.
I always thought they did that so they could show a commercial break, which equals more $$$.
I think they take longer due to the amount of advertisements they have
I think they’ve doubled in last ten twenty years
OK so the NFL needs to keep the game clock running because a 60 minute game takes 3 hrs to play…start making players play offense and defense
But I wait – don’t football teams have 40 seconds to create a strategy and execute? Even when they have no timeouts? It is a game of strategy, nothing wrong with visits to the mound.
Totally agree!
Clint Frazier is worth more than every player the pirates got from Houston… I’m glad I’m not a pirate’s fan cuz their GM is terrible
Agreed. You go for who you believe is the most talented and valuable piece. Clearly rounding out a roster for a sub par year was higher on the agenda.
True. Problem is the Pirates don’t need another outfielder, even if they trade Cutch. And since the Yankees were unwilling to deal pretty much anyone else of value, that’s why Cole isn’t on the Yankees. Had Sheffield and/or Andjular been available, might have been a different story.
I agree and Yank fansas bold headed as they are just don’t get it. Why trade a boat for a snow mobile even if it’s a great one if you live in Florida.
Because if the the snowmobile is worth more than the boat, you can turn around and sell the snowmobile to someone living in Alaska. Yes, Frazier might not be the answer to the holes Pittsburgh has moving forward, but I’m guessing there are teams that do have holes in the outfield that would give them more than what they got for Cole.
And for the record, I didn’t want the Yankees to make this trade. I think Cole would have been a disaster in NY. He gives up too many hrs as is. Pitching in the Bronx wouldn’t help.
There’s a lot more people on the coasts than in Alaska. The boat is definitely more valuable.
Not if the weather on the coasts is unseasonably cold. Boat use will go down and people on the coasts will be looking for snowmobiles too.
Thats just so silly. Pirates could trade him for what they want. Thats why teams draft based on talent and not positional needs. Must be something in the water, vaccines, something.
Its like refusing gold because its harder to spend than cash. Just exchange it for cash . Duh
Agreed- it truly sucks being a pirates fan. They could’ve flipped Frazier even if they decided to keep Cutch if they truly felt they didn’t “need” him. I’m just baffled by the logic. The owner and management is a joke and as a fan- I just feel foolish that I keep having hope that they field the best team possible.
Did you mean impossible instead of possible?
Completely agree. Pirates management make it so frustrating to be a fan. That trade was a joke. Here comes more “controllable years “ of sub .500 baseball!!
Why would they add a second player better than anyone they got from the Astros?
I think he was saying one of those two as the headliner instead of Frazier.
The smart thing would have been to take a Frazier package, and either immediately try to flip Frazier elsewhere (perhaps even to Houston for those same prospects, who knows) or play him this season and trade him once he proves himself and has even more value.
End of the day, if you’re rebuilding, your job as a GM is to acquire the best players. Use them as chips if you don’t have the need on the field.
That said, I’m glad Frazier is still a Yankee. I want to see him play in pinstripes if at all possible.
Then you would be about as good of a GM a Pirates GM. When you’re in a position like the pirates are, you take the best talent. Frazier alone is probably worth more than all 4 players the Astros sent to Pitt. And that’s not only my opinion, but the opinion of many GM’s that are being public about how bad the package was that Pittsburgh got back. Which ever other 2 players the Yankees were willing to send probably would’ve been better than the the last 2 players Pitt recieved. One of them was eligible for the rule 5 draft and wasn’t even picked up if that tells you anything. Frazier could’ve been flipped to another team for another top 50 prospect, and 2nd top 100 prospect, and another throw in. Or they could’ve probably traded Marte for a decent package at the deadline after his value was built back up. Then OF of the future would be Frazier Lf, Meadows CF, and Polanco RF. If I was a Pittsburgh fan, this trade trade with Astor’s would’ve made me sick enough to finally throw in the towel.
Moran has showed signs of being a better hitter than Fraizer. He is older so thats something fraizer has going. But so far Fraizer has shown nothing to prove the hype
Yeah, Frazier has been up for about 4 years in MLB and hasn’t done much, has he? You are so right, Oh wait, he’s only actually had 134 at-bats. Are you serious, guy?
I clearly stated age is something on Fraizers side. The past few years Moran has by far been a better hitter at the minor league level and both their small sample size at MLB. Compare them 1 for 1 and its really not an outrage the Pirates chose Moran especially considering thats a bigger position of need for them. If the Yankees offered adams and fraizer thats a different story. But no Fraizer is not more valuable than Moran and if he is its a very thing margin. Just because he is a Yankee doesn’t make him automatically bette than everyone
Can you stop lying? Frazier has a higher career OPS in the minors than Moran! Moran also has a lot of his at-bats in the PCL, a notorious hitters league–Frazier doesn’t. To say that “Moran has by far been a better hitter” is a flat out lie.
Lol, Frazier is not more valuable than Moran? No, he actually is a lot more valuable than Moran, and guess what? It has nothing to do with Frazier being a Yankee. He just, oh, I don’t know, is!
Frazier’s stock is also falling though
If Frazier has this incredible worth, I would imagine the Pirates make that deal regardless of the additional pieces…not sure how they do this deal before moving McCutchen.
Fraziers highest OPS came in rookie ball lol. If fraizer is this incredibly valuable commodity then why have the yankees not traded him yet. His value has sunk dramatically. Get over your delousional yankee bias. He is not better than Moran until he actually proves it. And being on a top 100 means absolutely nothubg.
You beat me to the punch. Exactly, If Frazier was that good and in demand, some team would offer a good return for him. The Yanks would want to move him because they have a logjam in the outfield.
If Frazier is projected by the Yankees to be a great as you say, why would they trade him for two years of Cole?
Based off of what? His 134 AB over a 3 month period with an oblique injury squeezed in the middle?
The only reason why Frazier isn’t a top 50 prospect is because his 134 makes him ineligible for most lists. Had he lno 50 AB then this would be a different discussion.
“If fraizer is this incredibly valuable commodity then why have the yankees not traded him yet”
just read and think about this for a second,,,,,,
….ok. Maybe the Yanks DO think he’s an incredibly valuable commodity but already had Judge, Gardner, Hicks and Elsbury on the team and THEN had a unique opportunity to trade for the NL MVP. As a result, Frazier is 5th or 6th on the OF depth chart.
I don;t think any reasonable GM is going to look at Frazier’s 2017 season at AAA/MLC at age 22 and think negatively towards him. He is flawed but is still as well regarded as he was when with the Indians.
Just to expand, he came up in July, had a oblique injury that DLed him until late August. In July he had 4 dbls, 3 trips, 4 hrs and a .837 OPS in 98 AB. He came back from the DL and played another 45 AB and he had a horrible .480ish OPS. But he showed a lot of the talent that we’ve heard about. Obviously, like a lot of young players now, he needs to cut down on his strike out rate. But the talent is obvious vs mlb pitching. He deserves a big league job but the Yanks will and should be patient. If they can get a good player using Frazier then great. If not, he can start 2018 in AAA and wait until he’s needed again. ,
But they shouldn’t “give him up for nothing.
Frazier has a much higher ceiling. But I think Moran is a better fit because of their lack of prospect infielders, and their outfield has Marte locked up for like 4 years, Polanco for 6, and Meadows has been a top 10 prospect the past 2 or 3 years.
Tbh, I don’t think Pittsburgh should be concerned about positions–they should be looking to acquire talent. At any and all positions they can get their hands on.
Meadows has also seemed to stall lately, so he’s no sure thing now. And you know what happens when you go after positional fit instead of talent. Michael Jordan and Kevin Durant happen. Think Portland would like a do-over in both cases?
Weird I haven’t met anybody who knew Greg Oden’s body would betray him. Have any lottery numbers Nostradamus?
The bottom line to all of this is that the Yanks appear to have blown the opportunity to make their team better at little/no cost to their major league roster. The Pirates acquired 4 second tier prospects for their best starting pitcher, an “innings eater”, a proven former all-star, and controllable (at reasonable cost) for the next two years.. Cole is coming off a couple of mediocre years, but his star potential is real. Astros management made their World Series winning team that much better, and it cost them virtually nothing.
Prior to his call up, Frazier was ranked #15 prospect in all of baseball. Moran wasn’t even in the top 100.
If Musgrove has a breakout year in the pen, and I think he’s controllable, they could potentially flip him to the Yanks for a Frazier based package.
Musgrove could be their hinge BO guy, give them 10 spot starts and however they choose to utilize him out of the pen.
BP*
No way would the Yanks trade Frazier (alone or part of a package) for Musgrave the relief pitcher.
KennyFlornia74, You need to do some more research on Frazier before you put an opinion like that out there. He’s a very sought after player who the Yankees aren’t gonna give away. Which is why he hasn’t been traded for peanuts like the pirates just did with Cole. Cashman doesn’t make those kinda mistakes very often. Which is why the Yankees are in the position they are, and they pirates squandered they’re only recent chance at success.
Everyone hates the Yankees but they need to get over it,the Yankees are once again here to stay,good young team,great farm system and lots of money,Houston is very good,but in 3 years they will be done when they can’t pay their star players,mean while the Yankees will be on a 15 to 20 year run of playoff baseball,so to all MLB teams enjoy when you win now because the Yankees are set for a long playoff run,winning one year is not good enough in NY,everyone hated them in the 90s,well get ready because here we go again,.LOL haters,longtime yankee fan since 1960,GOT RINGS!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for this! Got this info on twitter about 11 hours ago!
classy
Is that how long it took you formulate your post?
You must be the fan of a bad team ,I feel for you and respect you because its hard to root for a team that does not make the playoffs year after year
Stop the hatred,this is just for fun
Yes I was working on it since birth
You can be a wise **s all you want,but it is so true
Yankees try to pawn off Frazier in every trade
The Yankees are only moving Frazier for two main reasons. 1. Judge & 2. Stanton. Frazier is not a centerfielder!
What about DH. Also Stanton only around for 3 years. Frazier has 6 years control
Yankees will probably primarily rotate Stanton, Judge, Sanchez in the DH slot this season. Perhaps Ellsbury now and then as well. If the Yankees felt they could unload Ellsbury this season I doubt that we would have heard Frazier’s name come up in so many trade rumors.
Gardner is probably gone after this season or the Yankees may just dump Ellsbury at the end of the season as well. Frazier is blocked this year (unless injuries) but he’s only 23. It’s not like splitting time in AAA this year will hurt his development.
I could see the Yankees flipping Stanton to LAD for young arms prior to his first opt out. Is it 2019? Yankees could end up turning Stanton into a large prospect haul of young arms. If Stanton puts in work in pinstripes, he could parlay that into another ten years and he wants to play in LA no? Yankees are no dummies and Cashman has shown the foresight before with his Miller and Chapman deals.
Because they consider him blocked. They shouldnt, because he could DH, but there it is
I would play Frazier in left and Judge/Stanton rotating between RF and DH. Trade Hicks and play Florial in center in 2019.
Lol
Trade Hicks why? Next youll suggest trading Sanchez so that Kyle Higashioka can start or something
Frazier is expendable at this point, but I also have the feeling that many experts have soured on his offense too. While there is obviously time for him to improve, right now it appears that there is too much swing and miss in his game to be counted on as a regular starting outfielder.
Your feeling about the experts feeling is basically your assumption. And we know what assuming does for you…..
Pirates GM has always been bad. Even when they were playoff contenders just a few years ago he never had the urge to improve the team and take them to the next level. Now here he is trading one of his best players for an underwhelming package. I’d hate to be a Pirates fan.
I have to agree, just about the ONLY reason the Pirates are even moderately competitive has been due to their good scouting department, a quality pitching coach, and their ability to develop prospects…
Even though, the Pirates aren’t exactly flush with cash, it’s no excuse. That’s when a GM has to get creative, maximize value, and make solid and sound decisions. Their GM has consistently shown he doesn’t have the rocks to take any chances.
Now, every GM can luck into a trade every once in awhile, so his track record isn’t completely terrible…But, hey, even a blind squirrel stumbles upon and finds a nut every now and then…
If you ask me, he’s gotten worse since we were playoff contenders. At least when we were in The Wild card/playoff spot consistently for 3 years, he did stuff that helped the team, more than hurt it (like sign Russell Martin, trade for Marlon Byrd, acquire A.J. Burnett, sign Liriano, and Volquez, and trade for J.A. Happ and Cervelli). But now, the only notable acquisitions before The Cole trade were Hudson, Nova, Niese and Rivero. But acquiring Niese and Hudson have not really improved the team.
Kinsler has friends and thoughts–that’s news.
The Cole trade for me is very reminiscent of the original Aroldis Chapman trade to the Yankees. The Reds got quantity over quality and have paid for it dearly. Only two of the four prospects they got are with the org. and neither of them is expected to be more than AAAA players at best. I guess the Pirates haul is a little bit better, but right now it just seems the rich got a lot richer and the poor got a lot poorer.
That trade was far worse than this one and you have to factor in that Chapman was under a cloud of uncertainty given the off the field stuff then; which temporarily limited his suitors.
I agree it was worse. Although, the Chapman trade was not that much worse than this trade for the Pirates; in terms of, comparing the quality of players sent and received for the Reds and the Pirates.
I just think, personally, Cole is worth much more than a possible #4/#5, an unproven 3B prospect that’s been passed over internally, and a couple uninspiring bullpen pieces…
It is completely obvious that the Pirate’s GM chose quantity over quality. I mean, if Frazier is the prospect you thought was the best, then you trade for Frazier. You get Frazier, and then if the Yankees don’t want to part with their higher rated pitching prospects, you do your due diligence and target their younger talent that is available.
The Pirates do not operate with a high payroll, so they have to “win” the big trades they make, and ultimately winning trades is typically done by taking some risks with younger players. Not by playing it safe with near ready talent that has hardly any upside…Just ask the Reds how that turns out…
This trade and the Chapman trade aren’t even comparable. The Reds got nothing for Chapman. Musgrove is at least a solid back end starter and Moran is potentially a starting 3B. The return was bad but not even in the same league as the Chapman trade. Though the Chapman trade obviously had some other considerations. Not really fair to say Moran has been passed over internally because he plays the same position that Alex Bregman or Carlos Correa would play. He’s obviously not seeing any time there.
It’s easy to say it is far worse NOW with the benefit of hindsight. It was bad at the time too, but not nearly as bad as it looks now. Rookie Davis was thought of as a back end starter, much like Musgrove. Eric Jagielo was thought of as a potential starter at third despite some of his prospect shine being lost, much like Moran. Caleb Cotham was thought of as a decent reliever candidate on par with Feliz. Tony Renda was a lotto ticket much like Martin. It is very similar, just without the DMV stink attached. This Pirates trade might look just as bad in 2-3 years.
Haha this is completely revisionist.
Rookie Davis was a AA pitcher. Musgrove has already shown that he’s at least a very good reliever in the major leagues. Feliz has a live arm though he hasn’t had any major league success. Caleb Cotham was 3 years older and never averaged 13ks per9 in the big leagues. Moran changed his swing last season and showed a lot of pop though in a relatively small sample size. Those are all easily better prospects than what the Yankees gave up hindsight or not. It’s clear Pittsburgh valued Mlb ready guys. Return still seems light but we’ll see. If Moran winds up being a 20-25 hr guy with his solid contact skills and eye at the plate the deal might not look so bad. Musgrove and Feliz have plenty of upside as well. They targeted rivero for melancon and that worked out very well. Granted rivero has had a lot more success than Feliz but they obviously feel like they can work with him.
To say Musgrove is a “solid backend starter” is a stretch. While the Astros have strength in numbers for their rotation, Musgrove was below Colin McHugh, Francis Martes, and Brad Peacock in the pecking order. All of Which the Astros passed over in order of Cole. Future bullpen piece is a fairly safe bet unless Ray can fix him.
Just like Coppy did in Atlanta… he always went for quality over quality. The Braves never got good deals for Kimbrel, Heyward, Alex Wood, Andrelton Simmons, etc. because Coppy would ask for a bunch of mediocre guys instead of one top prospect.
Kinsler ” The Angels are the only one I would of waived it for”. BS like he would of stayed with Detroit and no shot to win. He would of probably taken it with all 10 teams.
This cracks me up. Players leave for money and get ripped. One says he would stay and you spout crap.
By the way, unless you know the ten, you have no idea if they have a chance to win, so your claim is even more idiotic.
I know this is almost 99.99% unrealistic but I’d like to see if the Pirates called the Yankees and try to maybe work a deal to pry Frazier from the Yankees involving Harrison. We all know Cutch‘s time is coming to a close with the Pirates and I don’t think we can turn our noses up to a player with the potential like Frazier but I know this will never happen
The Yankees don’t need Harrison. Even if they’d bit, you’d have to throw in a whole lot more.
I get that it wouldn’t be easy to do it as I mentioned it being really unrealistic. Just thought it would be interesting to see if it could happen. I had read a couple people mention this previous on another article who appeared to be Yankees fans. Harrison could be a good get for the Yankees though because they can decline his options or pick them up and move him themselves.
Being a stopgap or a super utility player for them or playing 2nd/3rd depending on the development of the younger guys. Then once they have to make a decision on his options they can go from there as far as keeping him or trading him. They can afford his salary as far as the CBT goes.
Even if the Yankees were interested in Harrison, Frazier definitely wouldn’t be on the table for him.
You have no idea who the Yankees would have on the table for Harrison. Just like all of those saying that the Pirates should have taken the Yankees offer for Cole when none of us knows who the Yanks were offering for him in reality. Frazier keeps getting bantered about but we really have no clue if he has been offered to anyone let alone the Pirates. Just because the name gets mentioned does not mean that is who is involved in the negotiations. If the Yanks really wanted Harrison, they may well offer up Frazier since he is blocked right now.
I knew when I said all of this that it was basically impossible but it just seems to me like if they really wanted Harrison who could be extremely valuable then they COULD offer Frazier. I’m not saying in anyway I expect something like this to get done at all. I just know that since NH asks for the world for his guys, though we all know he doesn’t get that usually, he might ask for Frazier even though he most likely wouldn’t be able to get him
No, actually I do have an excellent idea of who would be available, and Frazier wouldn’t. Sorry to burst your bubble. I doubt the Yankees would “really” want Harrison, because he’s nothing special. You don’t give up a lot more than you have to just because a certain player is temporarily blocked, especially when you have the depth in the farm that the Yankees do.
I’m sure Huntington would ask for Frazier. He wouldn’t be doing his job if he didn’t. But asking for something and getting it are two entirely different things.
I understand your point. I’m not trying to be biased at all but I feel like Harrison may be the best 2nd bass option for them possibly if they are looking for someone to bring in is all
Ha. What? And then maybe you can get Kershaw for Jordy Mercer.
No I’m not comparing the 2. But this is a completely wac ass trade idea. Not a Yankees fan, I’m a Cubs fan. You could top out at a fringe prospect for Harrison. Maybe a teams 9th or 10th best prospect.
I know you mean well and I don’t want to criticize you for your opinion but this is way, way, out there.
Obviously, the outcome of this trade revolves mostly around Musgrove and Moran. Musgrove has talent, and according to Musgrove hisself, he’s going to be converted back into a starting pitcher. Musgrove proved he could be a successful and effective pitcher at the ML level, but that was out of the bullpen, where he was able to cut it loose. Working out of the bullpen Musgrove was able to add some velo on his fastball, and shorten his arsenal. This allowed him to truly focus on those few pitches, maximizing his arsenal and talent.
The big question is, will Musgrove be able to convert back into a starter effectively??
The other “prospect” the Pirates received was Colin Moran. He was blocked in Houston, so it wasn’t a loss for them whatsoever, he was easily expendable. It isn’t exactly known what will come from Moran at the ML level, but the Pirates better hope he pans out..
One aspect of this trade that is not talked about enough is, by acquiring a 3B in Moran, even moreso now, the Pirates can easily afford to unload Josh Harrison..
Harrison could help the Pirates acquire some other young talent, and there are definitely other suitors out there that are interested in the services of Harrison..
It’ll certainly be interesting to see the real effect the outcome of the Cole trade ends up having on the Pirates roster…and, for that matter, the potential effect it may have on the team that acquires Harrison..Only time will tell the tale.
I remember the Yankees being interested during the McCann trade talks maybe Folty for Frazier with a couple other parts moving around or Teheran he has a team friendly contract more yrs less money than Cole I believe
I’m much more a believer in Foltynewicz than in Frazier. There are reasons why some have soured on him.
How does one know the Yanks offered so much more in talent if the names are not known? Remember the names bantered around a week ago going from the Astros sounds like what the Yanks supposedly offered and none of them ended up going to the Pirates. Obviously the Yanks were not offering much or the Pirates would have taken the deal
Pitch clock is nonsense
Happy Yankees didn’t give away that much for a middle of the road national league starter. How many 3 or 4 starter come to American League and become aces? Yankees need to stick with plan with young guys and bring Dallas to Bronx next year. Pirates were crazy not to take the Frazier package. Mid season there may be a much better pitcher available to trade a Frazier package for if needed. They will be set up good with $20 million to spend and loaded with prospects for mid season needs.
Moran retooled his swing before 2017 season to get more lift. He was a high contact guy with a lot of groundballs. 2017 saw a split in groundballs to flyballs and much more power. Moran will put up Bregman comperable numbers, just not Bregman stellar defense. Musgrove is great first time through the order, but drops off considerably second and third through, hence the extremely effective relief role he played last year. Martin put up comprable numbers to Frazier last year at AA/A+ and is younger.
The Yankees are the team that is crazy… The Pirates are giving away player’s and you didn’t close the deal. Now he’s going to be facing you in the playoffs on a strong Astros team.
Yanks must have been offering pretty much garbage. If the Yanks really wanted him they would have offered more than they did. We will see as the season goes on who made the wiser decision.
I’d go for two changes:
1). No mound visits from the coaches. Let the players figure it out on the field, they’re the ones playing.
2) Up the minimum from one batter faced to two batters. It would be the end of the four and five pitcher/30 minute innings with more time not playing than playing that are the real time/pace of game killers
Please stop saying “would of” instead of would’ve, and adding apostrophes to non possessive plural nouns.
Apologies, but it’s for the good of mankind.
Amen!
As a Pirate fan, I thought the Cole trade was ‘meh’. The return wasn’t horrible, but it also wasn’t great. We didn’t get a big prospect name, but we also didn’t get any bad prospects.
The throw in was skipped over in the rule 5 draft. I’d consider that on the bad side. Which is the 4th piece that persuaded them over the Yankees 3 player offer.
There is little evidence that either is anything special , but let’s say you value Frazier more than Moran, fine…what was the rest of the offer?
Musgrove and Feliz are interesting arms. The Yankees weren’t offering Adams, so what did they have to offer that tops Musgrove and Feliz?
And did they offer it?
Trade packages might not be what they used to be, just as free agency has been changed by the new wave of GM’s. None of the players traded at the deadline last year got back as much as most expected.
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EVERYONE wants to keep as much of their money as possible. We could all do our jobs for less money, but we’re not willing to do that either. Hating on players for maximizing their earning potential and saying they’re greedy is stupid and hypocritical. If they didn’t, we’d call them foolish and short-sighted.
I agree that it is appropriate to keep JBJ unless you get an irresistible offer.
JBJ is one of the best defensive CF’s in the game and he made the All Star team in 2016.
He is also young and inexpensive with a great deal of upside potential.
If you think Clint Frazier is better than any player you got from the Astros, you take the offer with Frazier. Period. I get that the Yankees weren’t willing to offer other high end guys in addition to him, but they didn’t get any high end guys from Houston anyway. And quality should always be more important than quantity.
The Pirates made this deal with a mindset of trying not to lose, and not with a mindset of trying to win.
Pirates only hope for a quick rebuild was trading Cole and getting the best available talent in that package. McCutchen won’t bring much due to his contract, and Harrison should be being a decent player or 2 at best. Pirates GM missed his opportunity
All people saying Frazier was better, why not a 3 team deal. Send Frazier to a team that wants an outfielder, and that team sends Pitt some prospects. No one has mentioned this.
Either way, I’m glad Cole is an Astro, not a Yankee.
The Pirates can’t draft right or make a trade right……looks like another 21 years to wait and thank god i probably won’t be around to suffer through it