12:27pm: Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports reports (via Twitter) that the Astros have had talks with the Pirates about a trade that would send Cole to Houston. Young outfielder Derek Fisher’s name has come up in negotiations, though Passan notes that the Pirates “almost certainly would need Kyle Tucker or Forrest Whitley” to headline the deal.
The 24-year-old Fisher entered the 2017 season as a well-regarded outfield prospect and elevated his status with a .318/.384/.583 batting line in 384 Triple-A plate appearances. That led to Fisher’s first MLB promotion, though he struggled to a .212/.307/.356 slash in a small sample of 166 PAs with Houston.
Tucker and Whitley, by most accounts, two of the top prospects in Houston’s system (if not the two very best). Each is a former first-round pick, with Tucker going fifth overall in 2015 and Whitley being tabbed with the 17th selection in the 2016 draft. Both reached Double-A in 2017 despite being four to five years younger than the league average in the Texas League. Whitley displayed some of the most intriguing strikeout numbers of any starter in the minors, while Tucker posted a composite .874 OPS between Class-A Advanced and Double-A.
11:25am: The Astros have been connected to Yu Darvish at various points throughout the offseason, and owner Jim Crane confirmed to reporters today that his club is in the market for a top-shelf pitching addition (Twitter links, with video, from MLB.com’s Alyson Footer). Crane didn’t suggest that his front office is zeroed in on one particular target, instead suggesting that an upgrade could come either via free agency or trade.
“[General manager] Jeff [Luhnow] and his team are actively pursuing a high-end starter,” said Crane. “We don’t have anything done yet, and it may not come to be, but we’re constantly looking to improve the team. … We’re always trying to upgrade the team, so it would have to be a significant upgrade. We’re happy where we’re at. I’ve been told that on paper we have the best team in baseball, but paper doesn’t win titles.”
Darvish has been the most prominently mentioned name in connection with the Astros, though the free-agent market also features Jake Arrieta while the trade market could bear names such as Gerrit Cole and Chris Archer (among other, potentially yet unforeseen candidates).
Houston, of course, already boasts a stacked starting rotation. Justin Verlander looked arguably better than ever following an Aug. 31 trade from Detroit to Houston, and he’ll return to front a rotation that includes 2015 AL Cy Young Winner Dallas Keuchel, high-upside young righty Lance McCullers, and 2017 breakout stars Charlie Morton and Brad Peacock. The ’Stros also have veteran Collin McHugh on hand as a solid back-of-the-rotation option and a number of high-end prospects waiting in the upper minors (including Francis Martes and David Paulino, each of whom has already made his MLB debut).
However, the Astros could also be on the verge of losing Keuchel and Morton to free agency, as each has just one year of team control remaining. While the development of Martes and/or Paulino could lead to the emergence of some internal replacements, Houston could very well see Verlander depart after the 2019 season. As such, adding a top-end starter right now would not only give the Astros an even more formidable collection of starters, it’d also serve as insurance against the possibility of losing arguably their top three starters over the course of the next two years (although Cole, it should be noted, only comes with two years of team control himself).
Repeat imminent l.
Just keep in mind that’s what Cubs fans were saying after they won.
Houston looks stacked, but injuries and players regressing can change a team.
They’re still the team to beat but anything can happen in baseball
It’s kinda funny how the 2017 Cubs are universally viewed as a disappointment, but they still won 92 games and were 3 wins from the World Series.
The Cubs are still a World Series contender, and they’re likely the third best team in the NL after the Dodgers and Nationals.
Third best team in term of regular season wins, maybe, but until the Nats win a playoff series, I wouldn’t put them ahead of the Cubs.
I’m a Mets fan who loves to rip on the Nationals for not being able to win a playoff series (and losing a game 5 at home 3 separate times), but that’s due to misfortune / bad luck, not anything related to roster construction.
I would agree if it hasn’t become a trend. If it happens one or two times you can make that argument. With all the talent they have you can’t simply blame bad luck for their terrible playoff success (or lack of)
That non-catcher interference call was an embarrassment.
Did you just completely forget about the red Sox 93 wins?
Wouldn’t that mean they were eliminated 4-1 in the NLCS? Disappointment.
L:et’s be honest, if not for our horrible bp, we would of swept the nats. They were lucky it even got to a game 5.
@John peterson,
Well the Nationals bullpen blew Game 3. And then of course they completely blew it big time in Game 5
I’m not saying the Cubs are a bad team by any means. I’m just saying that the expectations from their fans didn’t match the results.
I remember one comment that pegged the Cubs to finish the Regular season with 115 Wins, have Bryant improve even more, and repeat as Champions.
Another poster who can’t read UNLESS the Red Sox are now in the NL! Hello, Hello!
They’ve been choking in the NLDS worse than the Atlanta Falcons in the Super Bowl.
you read some homer post who knows nothing about baseball. Repeating as champions was certainly a plausible prediction, but making it to the NLCS is not a disappointing season.
well, by unrealistic expectations, yes, it was a disappointment
I’m not too sold on the Nats. Sure they have Mad Max and Strat, Harper. But really they have not impressed me. If the Nats want to GO to the WS not win GO they will have to get someone on that team in the Pen. Maybe an outfielder. Think pitching is good. I don’t think the Nats will have as good of year this year as last. They will still run away with the East as it all rebuilding and the Mets well they are the Mets. LAD still hold court. I believe you will see another NLCS with the Cubs and LAD again for 3 years straight.
I said the same thing. baseballpun. Oh BTW Regular season. No not third best – The Cubs have the best over all Reg season wins total for 3 years. At 97, 103, and 92 That is 292 wins for 3 regular seasons The Nats don’t even come close. 2 Division titles – 1 NL pennant – Playoffs – 3 straight NLDC wins, 3 straight NLCS appearances with 1 win, 1 WS win, 3 straight playoff appearances
No team over 3 years regular season and playoffs have done better NO ONE. Including LAD or the Nats.
Don’t believe me check your facts. Nats are nothing. Untill they prove otherwise.
I agree with Brewcrew. Happens once – Bad Luck – Happens twice that performance issue and bad manager.
There is no reason, and I’m a Cubs fan the Nats should have lost that series. They had Home F, they had Mad Max, Stras, Geo, Harper, Zimmerman and Cub killer Murphy. All over 300 hitters to add. Excuses are like @$$ holes everyone got one.
Let’s be more fair. The Cubs have now lost Wade Davis and Rondon from their 2017 bullpen. So, it’s fair to say the Nats are the better team today.
Regular season wins mean nothing when it comes to the post-season! Any team can get hot in a short series
Losing Rondon is a favor not a loss. Davis hurts a bit. If they wanted to they could go after Reed, or Holland. All pends on what they SP will cost. Less the SP cost the more they add to the pen.
Nats win that series without that MLB-directed pick-off reversal at first. Cubs won WS previous year with mandated rain delay with no rain.
Yes
Good observation, captain obvious.
This isn’t the NBA, repeats aren’t imminent nor do only like 1 or 2 teams have a serious chance at winning a championship.
I bet you’re fun at partys.
* parties
Sorry, couldn’t resist.
And you’re the guy that doesnt even get invited.
Id invite him to my party.
Definitely seems like a guy you can have over for some beers and wings and talk sports with a few hours.
NHL
Repeats are hard in any sport
Who was the last to repeat other than the penguins ?
Miami Heat
And the Seahawks would have repeated to had it not been for Pete Carroll (I hate the Patriots sooooo muchhhh too)
It wasn’t Pete Carroll who called that play at the goal line ! I believe it was the OC.
Verlander
Keuchel
Darvish
McCullers
Morton
Hard to find a better rotation in the MLB
With one of the best lineups as well.
Fulmer
Zimmerman
Fiers
Boyd
Norris
Better than that? I kid I kid.
Who says they will sign Darvish and not Arrieta?
either way, it still looks pretty good. 🙂 I would assume Darvish to save the draft pick, knowing how conservative they are with that. Either way though
Try Cubs starting 4 at this time. If they add any of Darvish, Cobb,Arrieta(hopefully not), then it’s possibly tops in baseball.
You mean Lester (4.33 ERA 4.10 FIP), Quintana (4.15 ERA 3.68 FIP), Hendricks (3.03 ERA 3.88 FIP), and Chatwood (4.69 ERA 4.94 FIP) or the free agent Arrieta (3.53 ERA 4.16 FIP)?
Your going by ERA of a year ago. lol. Your a Joke thetruth. Really you are.
I’m willing to bet the Astros pitching WILL NOT repeat its year from last year. Since you want to play last year and paper games I’ll play ball.
What team had a better pitching staff last year????
Better check your facts BUD! Astros were ranked 11th Cubs 7th. That was a bad year for them. year before they were 1st. Not much has changed only got better. If they Add one of those 3 they are set. They will, just a matter of time. IF I do say IF they add another reliever as in Reed or and Holland you better watch out.
The Astros got lucky last year both with NY and LA. That won’t happen again this year so enjoy it. You be talking 2017 all year till the end of your season. Bank it!
Insulting people who don’t agree with you doesn’t make you look smart, it just makes you look immature.
I posted ERA AND FIP. According to just FIP Quintana is the best starter on the team with a 3.68 FIP, then comes Hendricks with a 3.88 FIP. That’s not an elite rotation or even close.
I also never said that I expect the Astros to repeat. I actually don’t and am not an Astros fan. That said they were the best team in baseball in 2017. You conveniently didn’t mention that the Astros had the highest rated offense in baseball in 2017.
Hendricks has an 88mph fastball. Most experts don’t expect him to ever repeat 2016. Lester well outperformed his peripherals in 2016 and is now in his mid 30’s and according to his stats in decline. Quintana is considered a #2 starter by industry experts. Chatwood has potential but so far is clearly not a top of the rotation arm. The Cubs also don’t have a closer. None of the free agent starters pitched like aces in 2017 and except for Darvish aren’t aces.
The Astros have a better offense and farm system compared to the Cubs and their pitching is just as good.
Also the Yankees got Stanton and have Gleyber Torres on the way along with projected improvements from Tanaka and Chapman.
But the Cubs didn’t get lucky in 2016 against L.A. and Cleveland? Biased much?
I didn’t insult you. I told the truth. Those are the facts. Your stating the Astros have a better pitching staff based on ERA of the Cubs pitchers. If your going based on those stats you are sad. That not insulting you that is truth. Like I said who had the better pitching staff last year? If the Astros pitching staff so good then why go after Darvish, or Jake A, or Cobb or try to trade for Cole and Archer. Seems like they are scared of NY and Bost and Clev not a push over.
You crack me up. With your theories and the experts this the experts that. Experts had the Cubs repeating too last year. You ahve no clue what anyone will do. Verlander could be a bust this year. Dallas K could have his bad year again like he did in 2016 or was that 15 doesn’t matter. Your thoughts and comments are all unfounded. No doubt they have a better farm. 9 of our players weren’t called up from 2015 and on we have the best farm wouldn’t we. Got to graduate sometime. No doubt you have a better offence at the moment. But we have young players also still. Considering your offence was number 1 and the Cubs #4 in all of MLB that not that far off. that is only 3 spots – Pitching hahah whatever – Astros were #11 the Cubs 7 That is 4 spots so the teams are pretty even. Would be a great WS Cubs vs Houston. Not to mention the Cubs are a better defensive team. Not by much but some. So the teams are pretty even wether you like it or not. What ever floats your boat. There are NO EXPERTS in Professional sports. If so we all be rich. Why don’t drop your Car title or House deed and go to Las Vegas and Bet the Astros repeat. Your so sure. I like to see that big shot.
They are going after a frontline starter because keuchel is walking next year. It’s called being preemptive.
I wasn’t comparing pitching staffs of those two teams, I was saying that the Cubs don’t have the best rotation in the game, it’s possible I misunderstood what you were saying. I was under the impression that you were saying that the Cubs would have a good rotation as any team or better if they added a top free agent.
I put ERA and FIP, because ERA is how good they were and FIP is how good they really were without luck. I’m not an Astros or Cubs fan so not going to debate their pitching staffs. I think that the Cubs overachieved in 2016 because Lester, Hendricks, Zobrist and Fowler had career years while they also got lucky that Cleveland blew a 3-1 lead. Going forward I see Lester continuing to decline, Hendricks being a middle of the rotation arm and Quintana being a good #2 but not an ace. I’m basing this off of stats and my eyes. I could be wrong. We’ll see next season so for now I’ll agree to disagree with you.
Why are you using rankings for the entire pitching staff when this thread is about just starters? Just a heads up Astros starters were 6th vs the Cubs at 7th, but keep in mind the Astros are in the AL
Tanaka’s elbow is a ticking time bomb. They Yankees lucked into Stanton (being the only 1 of 4 teams approved by Stanton willing to deal), which sucks for everyone else. They are still stacked, but a lot can happen over 162 games.
you’re*
michael if i recall correctly you pointed out that he was using stats from last year. guess what you’ve used this entire argument. rankings FROM LAST YEAR… i don’t have a preference of astros or cubs i’m just saying.
Joking right? I think the Nats
and Indians , Jays , Rays,
and maybe even the A’s
and Cards will be better than the Cubs!
Cubs staff mean age: 29
Astros staff mean age: 30.2
Why does the mean age matter?
Also what do you think is the rotation for the cubs and astros? My numbers don’t come up the same lol
Numbers shown reflect each player’s age during the majority of regular season play:
Lester (34), Hendricks (28), Quintana (29), Chatwood (28), Butler (27), Smyly (28.5). I changed Smyly from 28 to 28.5 because his birthday is in the middle of June. Added up and divided by 6, you get 29.08333.
Verlander (35), Keuchel (30), Mccullers (24), Morton (34), Peacock (30), Mchugh (30.5 for his June birthday) added up and divided by 6 equals 30.58333.
So yeah, I was a little off after doing some better calculations. My bad.
And I forgot to include Mike Montgomery, who pushes the Cubs staff back down to 29. It definitely helps to be a bit younger.
Ah thanks. I wasn’t sure what the Cubs rotation was to be honest lol.. Smyly is out for the season, but still a young rotation. What was the age a reply to though? Seemed kind of random lol
Smyly could return in September or for the postseason, which would take some pressure off the rest of the rotation at the end of the year.
I just felt like piecing something together after noticing that Verlander and Morton are well into their mid-30’s. Cubs rotation is also a tad deeper than Houston’s due to Montgomery being a pretty solid swingman. Depth is really what makes the Cubs such a good team.
Well they have almost the same amount of starters then. 6.2 starters for the Cubs (Added Montgomery and counted smyly as .2 lol). If needed they can always start Musgrove and Martes too. Both sides have question marks.
How much will peacock and morton regress, lmj and keuchel health.
Is butler this 4era pitcher or more in line with his career, smyly health, how will chatwood transition outside of coors, and will lester rebound.
I like the Astros top 2 more, so I’d give the edge to the Astros, but I can see the other argument
Right, I forgot about Musgrove and Martes. If we’re including those two I assume HOU would definitely be a little younger than CHC, but then there’s a very good reason why those two (or at least Musgrove) didn’t last in the rotation. You were mostly spot on with your points, though I’m very bullish on Chatwood (3.50 ERA away from Coors last year).
I’d throw Verlander into the regression pile as well, considering his FIP was 3.85 and strand rate was like 80% (career 73.8%).
Where is McCugh? Thought he was 4th on the depth chart at the moment.
I think they trade McHugh if they sign someone
True IF they Pay Darvish money – If you think he is worth 6 years your crazy
if they could get him 5/110 why not
It’s sure going to be awkward when Gurriel and Darvish have to meet each other in Spring Training.
downvotes from Astros fans incoming.
Arrieta seems more like a Houston guy
He is definitely the type of pitcher they covet since he is basically the right handed version of Keuchel. However, no matter how much they may like the player, he presents the same issue as trying to retain Keuchel, over paying for a player because of Boras.
They would prefer to save that money for their other Boras clients like Altuve.
plus the losing the draft pick situation
It’s not a first round pick any more so not a big deal.
Cole is the kind of player they covet because he has a high ceiling and he has 2 more years of arbitration left.
They are facing losing Keuchel, Morton and Verlander by the end of 2019. They need high level options. Cole gives them an option without the big paycheck. When Verlander leaves his money simply goes to Keuchel IF they want him. Quite honestly, I’m not sure if he’s worth Verlander money. I’d rather see them acquire Cole and Archer and not worry about Keuchel
Everybody has moved on
Not really. Much bigger deal to fans than it was to players. Darvish handled it with class and it is a non-issue.
Exciting times for Houston fans
Hopefully they don’t end up like Kansas City
As long as they re-sign Altuve, Correa, Springer they will be fine. I think you’ll see them trade players away before letting them walk, which is where the Royals biffed. Keuchel may be the one That is allowed to walk without much compensation though.
By product of being a World Series contender.
If they keep Tucker they can let Springer walk. He’ll be 30 going into free agency and looking for a huge deal. Tucker will still be under team control.
They need to focus on Altuve and Correa. No one else is pending.
Let Keuchel walk. There are better options via trade PLUS Whitley is coming soon!
I don’t know how it fits their payroll, but the Angels should have a lot of motivation to sign Darvish. He helps in a much needed area. He aids the transition of Ohtani. And they keep him away from their chief rival.
Angels are in a soft rebuild. Ohtani is the future of the franchise. The Angels won’t make the playoffs this year and they’ll market Trout next winter as an alternative to Harper.
No. No. How do you know? No.
Those moves by the Angels were completely bogus. The first number of Zack Cozart’s OPS will be a “7” if you’re lucky and the same goes for Kinsler at 2B. I would put my money on both registering a “6”.
These are just names. Trout was a recruitment for Ohtani and Trout sells tickets. The Angels have no illusions about Trout signing another contract there. If they did they would have made real moves this offseason to win, moves which were available to them but which would have cost them the real talent on their farm.
The Angels don’t see their time for the postseason as now but after Trout is gone and Ohtani has a couple of MLB years of experience.
Your logic is baffling to me. So a team not wanting to contend goes out and adds a 30 year old SS and a 35 year old 2B? Then goes and signs Ohtani? If they are so convinced they are rebuilding why wouldn’t they move pieces rather than add vets?
What are you talking about? What “real moves” could they have done? They needed a left fielder so re-signed Justin Upton. They needed a 2B so they got Kinsler, they needed a 3B so signed Zack Cozart. Moustakas has OBP issues and they care a lot about OBP so didn’t sign him instead. They’re not trading Trout and they don’t have a good enough farm system to acquire the likes of Chris Archer. In fact they should work on their farm not trade from it right now.
The only “real piece” the Angels have that would bring back a lot is Trout and he’s also their main revenue generator.
Rebuilds always begin years before they are admitted to.
The Angels had the farm to acquire Giancarlo Stanton and Cesar Hernandez.
The Angels have made it clear they are not unloading those prospects to win. Those prospects are part of the Angels future after Trout.
Angels farm system is empty of prospects. they only have 1 that is considered a top 100 prospect who is in low A ball. Of their top 10 prospects only 2 made it to AA. They would need to do a complete rebuild not a soft rebuild to get better. This is more of a hope everything go right and no injuries for them to compete.
Trout would bring the most but Upton and Simmons are worth a lot too. If they were rebuilding they wouldn’t have committed years and millions to Cozart and Upton, they would’ve just shopped Trout and Simmons now when they have more years of control left. Shopping Trout as an “alternative to Harper” when he has 1 year of control left is stupid.
They weren’t on Stanton’s list of teams that he’d approve deals too. Hernandez had a steep price tag and at 3.1 rWAR wasn’t that much better than the much cheaper and more proven Kinsler and his 2.1 rWAR.
Kinsler is an old man unlikely to produce more than 1.0 WAR while Hernandez is in his prime and likely to produce more than 3.0 WAR.
Cesar produced that 3.1 WAR in just 128 games.
Again, the Phillies have a steep asking price for him that the Angels can’t afford. Kinsler was cheaper and is more proven. You don’t seem to understand that if a team is trying to contend it doesn’t mean that they should sell off their whole farm and max out their whole payroll. That’s how GMs get fired. Teams want sustainable long term success which requires smart investments and a strong farm.
The Angels are one of the winners of this offseason. They signed Ohtani who every team wanted, they re-signed Upton who would’ve been a top 5 free agent. They chose good defense and higher OBP for 3B and brought in a proven 2B who is a good capable veteran. Industry experts even think that it was a good offseason. You’re either trolling or don’t understand how the whole thing works.
I understand very well “how it works”. You don’t like the #Facts I gave you about what the Angels are doing so you’re attacking me. No matter how many pejoratives you sling at me at the end of the 2018 season Cozart and Kisler will have delivered about 2.5 WAR.
Stanton and Hernandez would have delivered around 10, maybe even 12 WAR and the Angels would be a playoff team.
The Angels know whether Trout staying is a possibility and they have clearly determined that it is not, he’s gone. Therefore they are in a soft rebuild/con the fan base mode.
The prospects will stay and Trout will go.
I’m not attacking you and you’re not saying facts just opinions that most people including actual GMs don’t agree with.
You say that the Angels are rebuilding when they just gave out multi-year contracts to Cozart and Upton. When I pointed that out you said that it’s to make the fans believe that they’re not rebuilding. Why would they do that?
You keep saying that they could’ve gotten Stanton. Were you reading this site when they repeatedly said that he would only accept a trade to 4 teams? He has a no trade clause so the decision was up to him and the Angels were not one of those 4 teams. There was NO chance of Stanton coming to the Angels.
The Phillies want a lot for Hernandez, the Angels have a weak farm as it is. Kinsler made more logical sense. I agree with you that Hernandez is better but Kinsler made more sense to acquire. I highly doubt that Hernandez is the missing piece to a championship that they should empty the farm for.
Cozart hits better for average than Todd Frazier, is a better defender than him and Moustakas and is better at getting on base. He was a smart signing.
Also pleas explain how acquiring Trout with 1 year of control would be better than just signing Harper considering the prospect cost and the next Trout contract.
The huge tv contract is their main revenue generator ! Not 1 player !
Ratings generate ad revenue and they may get a substantial part of ad revenue. The Phillies are not the only team that gets a big chunk of advertisement revenue.
The Dodgers all cash payment configuration is an outlier.
The Stanton “List” was constructed from teams that had shown serious interest to the Marlins, the Angels were not one of those teams.
OF COURSE, Stanton would go to Anaheim. That’s where he wanted to go, to the Los Angeles area., Anaheim is a one hour car ride to where he grew up. Jump on the 405 freeway and drive in a straight line.
“Why would they do that?”
MONEY.
When a team announces a rebuild attendance drops off the table. Season ticket holders do not renew. Season ticket holders who keep their tickets don’t show up. You get an empty ballpark even though the announced attendance is much larger. No parking revenue, no concessions revenue.
TV ad rates fall leading to less money from the TV deal and those dollars are untaxed by MLB central. Only the cash payments get taxed.
I’ve addressed Cozart already. Maybe 1.5 WAR. A joke on the fans.
One year of Trout is worth a lot more than one year of even a Manny Machado. Huge revenue boost for the acquiring team.
I salute you for being brave enough to be just incredibly ignorant on a topic and not be afraid to display that ignorance.
The Angels fell 5 games short of making the playoffs last season. This was despite horrible luck with SP, a month with Trout on the DL, and continued leg/foot problems with Pujols.
The Angels began 2017 with Danny Espinosa, a starting 2B who played about half the season before being released, and who departed with a .513 OPS; Kinsler, simply repeating his down season from 2017, would represent a .200 OPS upgrade, while giving nothing away on defense. Likewise, the team would have an entire season of Upton instead of just a month, representing another .200 OPS upgrade over the platoon of Maybin and Revere.
Even if Cozart regresses—and I think everyone expects he will—the DRS improvement over Escobar/Valbuena will improve the pitching staff and help inhibit run scoring by opponents, while providing equivalent offense to their combined output. Eppler made all these moves without falling into the trap of signing a player like Moustakas, whom so many “experts” declared was a must-do signing, and so kept from giving up any draft picks due to FA with QO attached.
Every team’s season forecast comes with a presumption of the general health of the team, but if one projects the emergence of a healthy Angels rotation—coupled with the improvement in infield defense and positional improvements in offense—and you have a team which can easily improve more than 5 games in 2018.
There are plenty of things you don’t understand about this team—you’ve made that very clear—but none of us knows what the Phillies were asking for Hernandez. However, it was apparently it was too high a price for Eppler. Likewise, everybody wants Stanton in their lineup, but that contract is crippling if he stays for the duration, and Eppler already has one of those on the books with Pujols (through 2021). Locking up those dollars for Stanton would serve to preclude the financial flexibility to extend Trout, whose price tag will be greater than Stanton’s deal, and who would be more valuable to the Angels as well.
Eppler has a plan, and he is working that plan. In the same, methodical way he courted Ohtani for years, he is building a better team than the one he inherited. He is building the farm through better drafting than Dipoto was able to manage, and by snapping up Ohtani and Maitan. If Kinsler’s stint in Anaheim lasts just one season, Eppler built in the flexibility to move Cozart to 2B and pursue a replacement at 3B if necessary. He won’t paint himself into a corner as Dipoto did, betting it all on red and losing.
So, no—no matter how badly you want to see Trout in a Phillies uni, there is no reason that Eppler “must” trade Trout. Instead, Eppler is building a team to provide the offensive support and defensive prowess worthy of the best player in the game last year. And next Winter, more moves to make, working the plan. Nothing makes a player happier in his career than being on a team which is built to win and have continuity.
“Eppler has a plan, and he is working that plan.”
Yes he does, and Arte Moreno is on board with that plan too. This plan is one that sees Trout as a temporary though fiscally important part of the Angels franchise. The plan is to prepare as best they can for the impending departure of Trout and that means a soft rebuild wherein the best talent on their farm cannot be touched.
your main point is absolutely right but there’s little Surplus on Upton deal meaning he doesn’t have trade value
it’s obvious the angels are gearing up to win this year that’s why they got Cozart Otani and resigned Upton
Ohtani is one guy. The Angels have holes all over their team INCLUDING the starting rotation. They are a long way off.
Hope you enjoy Pujols for the next 4 years as his decline continues. in 2020 the Angels may have to look into trying to get a “Designated runner” rule in place.
hellllll no
You’re right but they don’t have the money for this. They also have been reported to not want any more pitching.
I’ve been pushing for the Astros to make a play for Gerrit Cole since the Winter Meetings. This would be a good time to do so.
It’s a wonder why Luhnow and Co haven’t listened to Greg the MLBTR commenter guy yet
Haha! Good one!
Gerrit Cole should not be on a contender yet until he proves he is a 2-3
I would say a guy with a career 3.3 FIP has more than proven he’s a capable #2/3 type pitcher.
Before his injury, sure. Not worth the risk.
Before his injury? He wasn’t a “stud” in the second half, but a 4.0 ERA, 1.19 WHIP and 102 K in 95 IP? That’s pretty freaking good. Opponent batting average went down 30 points after the break, which blows away his 2016 levels.
Cole is good. Don’t just look at the results especially for only 1 season.
Projections have him at a 3.90 ERA and 1.25 WHIP in 2018. His peripherials were solid in 2017, his velocities were consistent enough with what he’s put up in his career. He’s a fine arm.
Those projections put him at a #3 or #4, not a #2, at least not on a contending club.
Enough of the arbitrary “he’s a 1 on this team, a 4 on this team” horse crap.
15 qualified NL pitchers had an ERA of under 4 last year. 15.
Tell me again how a 3.90 ERA is a #4 starter?
Gerrit Cole himself, as bad as he was, was 19th in the NL in ERA among qualified starters. I’d say that’s a pretty damn solid #2 pitcher.
Some peoples kids shouldn’t be on the internet.
Nova can probably be had for very little and he was rank 18th in the NL. Why give up top prospects for Cole if you can get another solid #2 for very little? Or how about signing Lance Lynn for a decent contract? He was 7th in the NL! Sounds like he is close to being an ace!
I agree with Lance Lynn being a target, but I think he gonna be out of their price range if they couldn’t get a deal done with Cobb. I would not even think about Nova. In 2016 and the early part of 2017 he benefited from people not having faced him before or not having many AB’s against him. Look at his second half 2017 numbers… 1.61 WHIP with an ERA above 5. I think an adjustment back to his norm when he left the Yankees will be in his future with a high 4 ERA. Plus he’s on the wrong side of 30.
So you’re saying that you didn’t know that Luhnow inquired about Cole last year at the trade deadline??? This isn’t new.
Arrieta scares the hell out of me.
If you can get him at a reasonable price, Arrieta would be ok. Seeing him pitch on TV over the last 4 years, he has regressed some and is still very good but not great like he was 3-4 years ago. Boras will see to it though that he will not come reasonable and will never pitch up to the contract he gets. All that said, ditto to your statement!
I also agree with you, that said, the way Arrieta is taking care of himself, I do believe he has the ability to deliver some very fine years. I do agree that the contract Boras will get him is probably resulting into negative value for the team that signs him. The slow market for SP is interesting though, as Arrieta on a 3 to 4 year deal sounds very appealing to me
He declined in every pitching category for 3 straight years. His FIP in 2017 was 4.16, his ERA at one point was over 5. He deserves a 1 year deal in all honesty though some team will give him close to what he wants out of desperation.
Why cause he can beat you up
Until you let Brent Strom get ahold of him.. guarantee you he fixes him. The dudes a genius
I think they need to throw in as many prospects as it takes to get Archer. He’s controllable under a decent contract for a while and allows them to eventually pay all these young players that will be coming up on contracts over the next few years. I think 3 years is their max window, unless they’re going to throw out $150M+ conttracts to about 5 players.
The fact that they won’t throw in as many prospects as it takes is why their “max window” isn’t 3 years. Most of the core of their batting lineup is under contract for that long or longer, as well as some really nice guys coming up.
If they grenade the farm to load up for now, they’ll be equal to what the Giants are now, except in 2021.
They are the defending champs and losing no pieces, why should they break themselves to add more? Just need to win by 1 run, not 15.
I agree with you. Archer and his contract makes perfect sense for a team like the Astros. Going into his age 29 season with 4 years of cheap control, his age and salary fit perfectly with thier current core and extends their window to win. He also allows them to extend players like Altuve, Springer and Correa long term if they choose. Another benefit is he provides SP depth and insurance over the next season or two when Kuechel, Verlander and Morton all become FAs, Archer and his contract are the exact type of pitcher that could allow the Astros to win multiple WS titles over the next few years and also gives young arms like Martin, Rodriguez and Alcala time to develop.
maybe Crane can work something out with the Redsox to acquire Price.
Price is overpriced garbage that should never be allowed to pitcher in a playoff game
This offseason has been all talk but no action.
Other than the two bullpen pieces to help shore up the weakest link on the team, right?
THIS is why I appreciate the Astro’s Organization as a whole. They aren’t afraid to go out and Take Action.
Too bad the Cards hacked them and created bad blood….because Mo could certainly “Learn Something” from them……..although that ultra-conservative, mid-west mentality can be tough to shove aside.
I’m confused how the Astros have “gone out and took action” this offseason to this point.
By signing to solid bullpen arms to strengthen their weakest link.
two*
Their biggest weakness is the lack of a loogy. Smith is nice, but Rondon is meh.
The bullpen as a whole, aside from Peacock, was unreliable in the playoffs.
I mean lots of pitchers were unreliable in the playoffs
LOOGY’s are a waste of a roster spot. The value isn’t there to be one of the 25 players on the roster.
A lot of the unreliably from the pen in the postseason amounts to fatigue from a long season in which the Astros starters forced them to eat more innings than they should. Devo, Harris and Giles are all All-Star caliber relivers. Giles really fell apart after what was essentially a spot start in game 2 of the ALCS.
Really the pen is going to surprise people next season with how deep it is.
1.2 IP isn’t really a spot start and he didn’t have clean innings the 2 games prior to that (I assume you are referring to game 1 of the ALCS since he didn’t pitch in game 2). You are correct that they were overworked though. Their rotation all getting hurt shortly after the all star break really hurt
The Great Lakes usually vote democratic and Texas is a loud and proud red state, so I have no idea what the heck you’re talking about when you call the midwest (which is a vague term) ultra-conservative. Maybe you’re thinking of the bible belt or the great plains, both of which, coincidentally, also include Texas.
Regardless, Missouri is considered to be more of a southern state by anyone from the Midwest.
As someone who lives in Missouri, you’re wrong. tbry absolutely consider themselves in the midwest.
I guess I should have said, “they’re considered more of a southern state (especially politically) by everywhere north of them save for Indiana”.
Looked it up and the Mason Dixon line is basically drawn right around Missouri, which explains their conservative roots.
The comment from the GM “so it would have to be a significant upgrade” makes me think it isn’t a free agent but a trade that might be coming together.
I think Chris Archer is the best fit. They have the prospects to get it done. I wouldn’t mind parting ways with Martes.
Sure they do, but after trading for Archer the Astros won’t have any real prospects on their farm.
John Middleton said the Phillies have a deal for Archer. Why is Archer still with the Rays? Because the Rays would have the Phillies farm system if the Phillies said OK to that deal.
Where did you see this? Since when do owners come out and say they have a deal in place trade wise?
It was an article linked here in the last two weeks.
Sounds like Fake News.
Can you provide a link? I don’t remember this article and I read this site daily.
Google: john middleton chris archer
First result for me.
The one that came up for me was MIddleton saying the price for Archer was “an arm and a leg”, not that they had a deal for him.
“I’ve got a deal over here, and it’s a bad deal,” Middleton said, quoting Klentak
I would love to hear a salesman be honest and say that exact quote the next time I go to buy a car..
“What Tampa’s asking for Archer or what the Pirates are asking for Cole, I don’t want to say it’s extortion, but it’s an arm and a leg,” he said. “So Matt looks at us and says, ‘I’ve got a deal over here, and it’s a bad deal. I think if I tweaked it this way, it would be a good deal. I’d be willing to do this deal, not their deal.’
Translation: “they want more than we’re willing to give”. This means that the Rays counteroffered and they were rejected.
For example the Yankees talked with the Pirates about Cole, and Pittsburgh wanted Torres. The Yankees said no. Does this mean that there was a deal in place because the Pirates were willing to trade him to the Yankees for players the Yankees would not trade?
“A deal in place”=both teams agreed to a trade but aren’t finalizing it for whatever reason. Your quote says that the teams involved couldn’t agree on a trade.
They should target Chris Archer. Or just sign either Darvish or Cobb. If I was them, I’d sign Cobb and Holland.
whats nutting and Huntington waiting for??? Cole isnt Kershaw or kluber. he’s garret Cole. just be glad they’re offering what they are. just make the trade Huntington and do freaking something this off season
I’ll give you $5 for your car. What you are waiting for? It’s not a Lamborghini. Just be glad I’m offering what I am and freaking do something.
I’ll take that $5!! It’s a broken down 1989 Camary with 400k miles and 3 bald tires.. Now bring me my $5 and get that pos out of my driveway..
The scrap price is worth at least $125 bucks! You are an idiot!
This. What’s the worst that happens if Huntington asks for maximum return? Someone says “no thanks”. If the Bucs hypothetically think Fisher is not a good enough return for Cole, then don’t make the trade just because they “have to” eventually. This is the same way I felt about the rumored talks with the Yankees: if you think Zimmer/Adams is worth it, then do it, but if not, don’t settle for that but ask for more.
As a Pirate fan I have zero problem with Huntington waiting to make a trade for Cole, or anyone else, until they get the return they want. The Bucs need players who can help them in 2018, but they also need to not trade away assets for anybody who they aren’t certain will pan out. They’ve already been burned repeatedly by over-evaluating their own guys, they can’t afford to make mistakes going forward.
As far as SP goes, I’d like to see the Astros go after Fulmer. Archer would be a good pick up as well but might cost more in prospects.
But Realmuto is the prize I’d REALLY be after! Let him split time at DH and with McCann this year and then take over full time C duties afterwards. work out a team/ player friendly 4 yr contract extension to buy out the last 2 yrs of arbitration and first 2 yrs of FA.
all prospects would be on the table aside from Whitley and Tucker.
Tucker or Whitley NEED to be involved Passan?..uhhh yeah Astros should pass. For 2 years of Cole, losing Fisher isn’t even worth it.
Pirates are delusional if they think Tucker or Whitley are headed back in a Cole deal.
This. If they aren’t trading either for Quintana, they aren’t for Cole with 2 years control and injury history.
It wasn’t that they weren’t trading EITHER for Quintana. It was that they didn’t want to trade BOTH for him. A far more understandable point of view.
If I remember correctly the reported deal was Tucker, Martes, and Musrove (?), so I don’t think it was both. Also it was reported that Luhnow had Tucker and Whitley untouchable.
It was one of them, and both were untouchable.
Astros are delusional if they think they’ll get Cole for anything less than two top 100s. Well unless they got a trout type then that’s another story
Pirates are delusional if they think they are getting Tucker or Whitley for a no. 2/3 with 2 years of control and injury history.
I guess the Astros just don’t want him that much then, which you know would be fine by me. I really don’t want either one of those prospects that much anyway.
Good thing no one really cares what you want. I’m sure Huntington is hanging up now to make you happy.
Chris Sale brought back 2 top 100’s (very nice ones, at that), with a much better track record and much better contract.
I’m not saying Cole won’t bring back 2 top 100 prospects, but it’s not gonna be 2 top 40 guys.
Fisher was comfortably in the top 100 upon callup. So were guys like Francis Martes (top 20) and David Paulino (# 54).
So, yes, Cole can get a couple top 100 type prospects, but that doesn’t mean Tucker and Whitley. Martes and Fisher may not be prospect list eligible any longer, or Joe Musgrove, or David Paulino, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t immensely valuable to GM’s who don’t just go by a top 100 list, but actually evaluate talent vs cost vs years of control. Paulino, Martes, and Fisher are all very attractive young options for anyone, regardless of any prospect list the may or may not be on.
Sonny Grey brought back two top 100s and a borderline top 100 for an extra half year control who has similar issues the year before being traded and missed time for injury
Jose brought back two top 100s and a couple others who i think are border line who also had similar problems as cole the half year before he was traded. (but with an extra year of control and better quality prospects)
Chris Sale.. well.. hes another league i’m surprised he went for so little honestly.
Look i’m not saying Cole should be traded for Two Trouts type prospects that would be crazy. But two non-the less pending who they are and their position.
My point is Houston doesn’t need to give up Tucker/Whitley to fill the “top 100” part of the requirement.
Kap was a top 50 but had TJ, which greatly diminishes that ranking. Mateo has been trending the wrong direction in the rankings.
But, it further proves the point for me. It doesn’t take a Whitley/Tucker type to headline a deal for a pitcher like Cole. Especially if they want a reclamation prospect type like AJ Reed who has crushed MiLB pitching and is only 24 still.
Derek Fisher, Joe Musgrove, AJ Reed, Francis Martes are all recently off of the top 100 rankings for one reason or another. The stars have hardly dimmed for them. They can get a deal done without Tucker or Whitley.
I’m not to keen on either one of them personally just because of their positions dont’ fit current needs (not that they’re poor players they’re probably pretty good lol)
I doubt they can get a deal done period, If I was Neal I wouldn’t take anything less than butt load more than what we’ve been talking about.. only because Neal has the luxury of time. No one is going to meet that currently. And they don’t have to trade cole, they could let him pitch the first half and probably improve his trade stock and after they get a few months of play, him trade him to a desperate contender who might over pay.
He could improve his stock, or really diminish it. The Orioles sat on Britton, Cole has a history of trouble, etc…
Gray went at the deadline for a return of Fowler/Mateo/Kaprielian.
As far as the positions : I don’t know that GM’s really read too deep into that. You wouldn’t want a lesser prospect at a position of need over a stronger one at a position of strength. Who knows.
I’m with you though, I don’t think a deal materializes. As a Houston fan, I hope it does (without Whit or Tucker), but I’m not counting on it.
well yeah it could happen that Coles stock goes down, i find it more likely goes up. Yeah Cole does have a slight injury history but at just age 26 hard to have much of a history of anything i wouldn’t put much stock into it but still be mindful that its there
Grey went for top top 50-80ish types (depending on which list) and a organizational top 10 for what would be just an extra couple months of service time for a similar pitcher
I’d think they would take it under strong consideration if it is a prospect that is near ready. but would also depend on the mlb roster.
I hope it doesn’t happen but i also want to keep Cole 😉 If it does happen i kinda hope it is to Houston.. been rooting for them since they moved to the AL
BTW: nice to find someone on here reasonable
Cole’s trade value is about as low as it can go (barring injury, of course).
His stuff is so good that his floor in terms of trade value is really high.
The worst thing that can happen (barring injury, of course) is he proves he’s only worth the current offers.
More likely, he rebounds to some extent and becomes one of the big trade chips at the July deadline.
2 top 100 prospects can mean Alvarez and Fisher (not a prospect, but he recently lost eligibility). That’s very different from Whitley/Tucker.
I agree depending on the situation. For example Alverez seems like a good option, but is a few years out at a position that isn’t and shouldn’t be a dire need. isn’t ranked a top 100 now doesn’t appear like he has ever been (if he has, it isn’t on BA’s site) but just glancing at him he probably will be sooner than later. But talent is talent and looks like he has it.
If the other player(s) can fill a roll reasonably soon then it is worth talking about.
Oh you’re 100% right. I don’t know why I thought Alvarez was in some top 100 lists. For some reason I thought he had barely made some lists (~95-100). My point stays the same though, that “2 top 100” is a very vague description of a trade package. For example Sale got “2 top 100” but that would be different than Cole getting “2 top 100 prospects” if they were Fisher and Alvarez (just assuming he was top 100 for the sake of the example)
I’d pass on a potential Cole deal if Whitley or Tucker were the headliners
.Fisher “318/.384/.583 batting line in 384 Triple-A plate appearances”
***In the PCL***, which means the numbers need to be heavily discounted, yet I still see GM’s falling for hitter PCL numbers.
Fisher is not as good a prospect as Frazier, so you would have to offer better to beat the Yankees’ apparent offer.
You can’t fault a guy for simply playing in the PCL. Yeah, the #’s may play up in general, but Fisher bests him in BB rate, K rate, SLG, BA, etc for their respective minor league careers.
Frazier may have been ranked 40 places higher, but that means very little to GM’s as opposed to us.
And we don’t know the Yankees offer. Maybe it stops at Frazier, where Houston is willing to go Fisher and add much stronger complimentary pieces.
I don’t think GM’s are as big on Clint Frazier as they were when he was traded
I’m with you there. Surely a deal could get done without those 2. As someone who lives in CC, Texas and sees load of Hooks games, these two guys are so exciting. They seem to be on the fast track to the MLB like Bregman and Correa.
I’m not sure you can jump to those comparisons just yet..I agree they do look like they have all the tools to be legit big leaguers though
I’m just saying that they’ve more than held their own at AA with the Hooks and they are even younger than Correa and Bregman were during their stints in Corpus Christi.
Or go sign Darvish and don’t trade future key pieces.
Dan Straily for Tucker. Straily has been better than Cole over the last two seasons.
And Staily has been on par with Archer. He’s also much cheaper than Archer or Cole.
Astros already had Strailey. They aren’t trading a top 2 org prospect for him.
In what world has Straily been better than Cole over the past 2 years (and please, please don’t use ERA as the basis for your argument)?
I’d do it for Fisher but no way for Tucker or Whitley. Fisher and a couple lower rated prospects, sure.
why do all Yank fans want to give garbage but don’t want to pay for it. Is it a NY thing. I know a lot of people in NY just business people they are the same way. No ones giving you Cole for nothing. or Macho to add to it. So get over yourselves,
He’s an Astros fan.
Every fan thinks their teams players are wonderful and their team should not have to give up anything but low tier players for a quality major league player. Happens in every sport. “Lets give up these low end guys for a future hall of fame player. Team losing the future hall of famer should have no issues taking our garbage!”
Hear it all the time on local talk radio for the Pens. caller “Lets get player ex in a trade. He is great and will make us perfect”
Host “Ok, what would you give up for the all star?”
Caller” The 4th string goalie and 2 guys that can’t score and need replaced by the all star. That should do it!”
Host; “you are insane!” and proceeds to hang up on the idiot caller.
Fisher isn’t garbage. He was considered untouchable a year ago. I’d give them Paulino and or Martes too. Neither is “garbage”, but Cole, with his history and only two controllable years left isn’t worth either of the Astros top two. They’d be better off signing Darvish.
He was considered untouchable yet almost traded for Giles (failed physical to one of the players changed the deal)?
NO. Klentak decided he had to have Mark Appel and so Fisher was removed and the Phillies added a 17 year old SS prospect from GCL.
Fisher was still on the table then. Doesn’t change my point at all
Yes, trade away your top prospects. Go all in.
Not gonna happen. Luhnow is no fool like Daniels.
Fisher, Ticker and Whitley all look nice but none fit the Pirates current needs other than raw talent.
Ummmm, you are currently a fourth place team in your division in terms of trend lines. You aren’t in a position to be looking for needs as if you are a couple pieces away. You need to start stocking talent now.
Doesn’t matter they are not repeating, New York mega Yankees have the World Series locked up.
I may have to agree with that statement , Yankees have some unfinished business to attend
psssssf – I wouldn’t bet on it. You silly fans only look at paper and not tangibles.
Bet on it, they’re gonna hit 656 Home runs and win 125 games. Probably sweep through the playoffs. They don’t even have Machado yet. Just relax
ok. LAD thought the same thing. lol. They can hit 1000 home runs won’t matter if they lose. Yank fans rather lose and look good than win and look bad. Typical NYers.
That’s not fair for the Dodgers. They lost to a team with more HRs than them, so you can’t disprove that HRs doesn’t equal championship
/s
The Yankees rotation consists of…
A guy who was in their bullpen this time last year.
A guy with a torn UCL.
A 400 lb 50 year old with a bum knee.
It doesn’t matter when you are scoring 13 runs a game
All they have to do is get through 4 innings then the bullpen shuts them down.
Maybe against the O’s and the TB and the Jays lol I doubt they score 13 runs against Clev, or Hust, or LAD or Chi or Wash or even Bost.. Only reason the East scores so many runs is because none of them have descent pitching except Bost. You score those 13 runs against Sale, and Fullmer, and Kluber, and Verlander, Mad Bum, CK, Mad Max. Id like to see that.
IF I do say IF the Yanks don’t win the WS this year, everyone going to ask Dumb Cashman why he spent 280 Million on a RF guy they didn’t need when they needed pitching instead. Bank It
like last year. Chapman ranked what oh he lost his job. NM,
Bull pen we all heard that with the Chapman, Bett, Miller three o.
How that work out. Nothing will change this year either.
Yeah, the best way to ruin a vaunted bullpen is to use them 5 innings a game. I’m glad not all Yankees fans are like you. They absolutely stole Stanton, but that’s not going to guarantee a title. The Nationals a few years ago had a rotation where the #5 guy would be the likely #2 on a lot of teams and people were talking about them having a rotation for the ages. Never actually materialized that way. Same for the Mets and their killer rotation. White Sox added Albert Belle before the 1997 season and proceeded to win 5 fewer games than in 1996. I’m not saying the move for Stanton means nothing, just that it guarantees nothing. Many other good teams have made huge moves, only to somehow take a step back the next year.
That was perfectly said 100% agree hyrax
Most experts think the Yanks, Astros and Indians have the best bullpen in baseball, and the Dodgers, Nats, and Indians have the best starting pitching.
Opinions very. The So Called lol experts also say the Cubs signing either JA or Darvish will put them as not only the best rotation but back into WS favorites next to the Yanks. So say the “EXPERTS” lol
How many runs did they score in Games 6 and 7 of the ALCS?
Dumb Cashman? Don’t forget Dumb Cashman is the guy who got them to this position. Cashman was smart to make the Stanton deal. It’s not everyday you get to add an MVP caliber bat to your lineup in a trade without giving up significant young talent. Plus look at what Machado and Harper are supposedly getting when they hit free agency. If the insane 400M+ numbers getting thrown around for them are true Stanton’s deal will look like a bargain. They are the New York Yankees, they can afford taking on some money. They also still stayed under the luxury tax which is huge. Cashman was presented with a unique and special opportunity and pounced on it. Not much to dislike about the move unless you’re a Red Sox, Blue Jays, Orioles, or Rays fan.
Except when the team you have to beat can do the exact same thing offensively and has a much better pitching staff.
It does in the playoffs.. The Yankees need starters who can bridge to their BP and their starters have a lot of question marks….
The Yankees NEED both Tanaka and CC to perform. I am rooting for CC because he seems like a decent guy, but he could just as easily have a 7+ ERA with Tanaka blowing his elbow out in the third week of April.
not enough!
Oh the Wino. Yeah just give him some scotch in the dugout he be ok.
But…Cole sucks. He’d only be the #14 starter on the Yanks.
For one, I’m not a Yankees fan. For two. Chapman had a down year he will rebound. They will eat another starter they are not done. They are holding on to kids that will never play, Frazier will get a big return along with other minor leaguers. They will pay for a third baseman, bank on it. All they need is a third baseman and a starting pitcher and they are instantly the best team in baseball by a large margin.
You think Chapman will rebound, but fail to recognize a probably huge regression from Aaron Judge. I think any rebound from Chapman will be far offset by a Judge decline.
stros1fan….Figure your an Astros fan with that Yankee player comment.
Did this premonition come to you in a dream or just your regular drunken binge!
No need for premonition. Judge sucked the 2nd half of the year and thru the playoffs.
See stroh’s comment, Rocky. Also, you may want to check into your nearest drug rehabilitation center, and soon. Finally, it’s ‘you’re’, not, ‘your’.
I can’t tell if you’re trying to troll or just uninformed. Take a minute and look up Judge’s 2nd half stats and you’ll see he was one of the best players in baseball and definitely didn’t suck. His 2nd half stats of 22 HRs, 144 wRC+ and 2.7 fWAR were all ranked top 15 in baseball.
He’s thinking of that terrible stretch he had from the all star game to the end of Aug where he hit .179 with a .690 OPS. Also he basically became Adam Dunn in the 2nd half. .228 average, either hit a HR walk or strikeout.
Judge might be one of the ultimate 3TO players, but his .391 OBP in the 2nd half would have have been the 2nd highest on the Astros. So even with his low BA and high strikeout rate, Judge made a fewer percentage of outs than every Astro regular other than Altuve.
Yeah the Astros lineup struggled in the 2nd half (primarily August). I’m perfectly fine with their current lineup structure of low strikeouts though. He may have had a really high obp, but walks only move a runner 1 base and strikeouts are hard to watch (trust me, as an Astros fan of recents years I know). Judge is a really good player though
Your point is….that Yankees rotation was 1 game from the World Series Dude!
and yet their team ERA was 5th best in baseball. thank you for showing us all what a dumb ass you are.
Enjoy all the Ks in the playoffs (again)
Fans are the only ones trashing Cole. No evaluators, scouts, or talking heads are. Just the folks who overvalue their unproven prospects.
If your team does get Cole, and he does well for your team, make sure you remind everyone how you hated him and didn’t want him on your team. Make sure you boo him, even when he is pitching well. And above all, make sure you don’t go to, or watch, any games he is pitching in. Cuz, you know, he is trash.
Feel free to tally up all the all-star games, WAR, and Cy Young votes your prospects have.
You can make the case that the Dodgers, Indians, and Nats have the best pitching in baseball, the playoffs are outlier the best team doesn’t always win.
So much for the claims by Yankee’s fans a few weeks back that not one other team was interested in Cole so Pittsburgh should take whatever low ball deal Cashman was offering. Fans of those teams that have interest in Cole or McCutchen, or Harrison, the Pirates are not in a position where they must move them right now. They can afford to wait on teams to offer more than they are now. Someone will lose a starter in either their rotation, outfield or infield and they will give a higher return for these players than currently offering. They all will be moved eventually and glad they are not going cheaply. At least not yet.
Should come talk to the Braves about McCarthy and Kazmir. The Braves would eat the salaries to get prospects. They are good on money this year.
I know those guys are not exactly ‘high-end’ but both are veterans who have had good stretches, are on short contracts, and will be much more attainable than some of the guys being mentioned. Just sayin’.
Kazmir – been there done that, he was with the stros 2nd half 2015 and did nothing. McCarthy is no better than a #5 starter, I doubt there is any interest from the stros.
I assume that Daz Cameron’s stock has fallen greatly since no one is mentioning him as a possible chip…?
He was in the Verlander trade
Daz Cameron is in the Tigers system now; he was traded in the deal that landed Verlander in Houston.
Forgot. That trade might serve as a good template for a Cole trade. Similar to the Sonny Gray deal. Something in those ranges.
Tucker + Moran + mid level pitcher for Cole?
No Tucker or Whitley. Anyone else is in play!
Ok, how about Fisher + Martes/Paulino + Moran?
Possible. I would imagine if Martes was offered he would be more highly thought of. You may get both Paulino and Martes if Luhnow wants Cole bad enough… 0% chance of Whitley or Tucker being involved in this trade.
I think that is a possibility, but probably Fisher + Paulino + Moran. Or Fisher + Martes. Martes has better stuff than Paulino, and has the ceiling of a #1 starter. Both Fisher and Moran I think will be really good players, both have high upside – if we didn’t have Bregman, Moran would be our third baseman. Paulino has good stuff, not as good as Martes, plus he is coming off elbow surgery.
I’d do that deal.
Martes doesn’t have the control to hit that ceiling. Honestly Paulino is the better pitcher, especially with his curve.
Martes is like 21, way too early to dismiss him like that.
If I’m the Pirates and Tucker/Whitley weren’t involved, I’d want Martes, or whoever they thought had more upside, likely Martes. If the Astros had Cole, he’d be expendable anyway, like Fisher and Moran already are. It’s a win-win.
Bukauskas, Moran and Gustave. makes more sense. No reason to include Tucker or Whitley and any deal except for a proven ace under 30 years old.
I doubt the stros are going to hand over Tucker or Whitley for 2 years of Cole. I think the discussion is probably Fisher and possibly Martes or Paulino. Also I think there’s just as much chance that they go after Darvish. And they could do nothing as well. They are in a position that they don’t have to give in for ransom, at the same time , they can improve their team if it makes sense.
I think Cole is a smoke screen to get Darvish to lower his price. I don’t consider Cole to be a huge upgrade over McHugh. Better, yes, but not substantial.
It would be really cool if the Astros add Darvish and Reed. Then, the only long term concern would be catcher.
Darvish has other suitors. Why would he lower his price just because of a trade rumor.?
Depends on where he wants to be.
Astros have the farm talent to acquire JT Realmuto as their long term catcher.
How about Cole and Harrison for Altuve and an A ball pitcher and call it a day?
I get 4 down votes for trying to add a little levity to the conversation? It was a joke people.! Don’t take the world, especially the sports world so seriously !
I figured this was a joke. Or a drug induced moment of stupidity…HAHA!!!
LOL! The entire FO of the Astros would have to submit to drug testing should that deal happen!
Only way astros get Cole is to give away all thier young players.thats what Pittsburg will want .dont see Cole being traded to any team.
trading Tucker or Whitley is nuts. Not for Cole. If we were talking about Sale or Kershaw, maybe. But not for an up and comer. The only reason they want Cole is that he still has two more years of arbitration left. If they won’t take Fisher and Bukauskas,,,,just say NO!!
I wonder what it would take to get Cole and McCutchens???
The Yankees, Whitesoxs, and Astros have the strongest farm clubs in baseball. Any one of them could make a deal with Gerrit Cole and not suffer by moving a couple of their top farm hands.
It’s hard to ignore the strength of Atlanta’s farm. Though most are pitchers, aren’t they more highly sought after anyway?