The Blue Jays were “the only other team that came close” to acquiring Christian Yelich from the Marlins before the outfielder was dealt to the Brewers, SiriusXM’s Craig Mish reports (Twitter links). “Several variations” of trade packages were discussed between the Jays and Marlins, including some deals that would’ve seen Toronto take some extra money off Miami’s payroll. What ended talks between the two sides was the Jays’ refusal to deal Vladimir Guerrero Jr. It was no secret that the Marlins were demanding a big return for Yelich, and it also isn’t surprising that the Jays balked at moving Guerrero, one of baseball’s very best prospects.
Here are more rumblings from around the AL East…
- Despite “a significant reduction in the gap between” the arbitration numbers filed by the Orioles and Jonathan Schoop, “the level of frustration on both sides is growing” as a deal still isn’t close, MASNsports.com’s Roch Kubatko writes. In what could be a related story, Schoop didn’t attend the Orioles’ FanFest this weekend, which left manager Buck Showalter “disappointed,” implying that Schoop’s agent advised the second baseman to skip the event (as per Eduardo A. Encina of the Baltimore Sun and other reporters). Schoop filed for a $9MM salary while the Orioles filed at $7.5MM. Kevin Gausman’s arbitration case has also yet to be settled, though Kubatko hears that the O’s will continue to talk to both Gausman and Schoop in the hopes of avoiding a hearing.
- The Yankees have roughly $10-$15MM ticketed to spend on a starting pitcher or an infielder who can play second base and/or third base, Joel Sherman of the New York Post writes. If everything breaks right for the Yankees in regards to the slow free agent market, they could fill both needs with those funds. With the club intent on staying under the $197MM luxury tax threshold, that $10-$15MM will leave the Yankees with around $15-20MM on other potential expenses (i.e. contract bonuses, in-season callups or midseason trade acquisitions). Adding a second baseman would provide depth if Gleyber Torres needs more minor league time as he recovers from Tommy John surgery, and Sherman notes that delaying Torres’ debut would help the Yankees gain an extra year of team control over the star infield prospect.
- With Lorenzo Cain landing a five-year commitment from the Brewers, the Boston Herald’s Michael Silverman believes that the Red Sox may be forced to offer J.D. Martinez more than the five-year deal they reportedly have on the table for the free agent outfielder. Martinez is two years younger than Cain and can be signed without draft pick compensation, which could go towards enhancing Scott Boras’ argument that Martinez should receive at least a six-year deal.
No one wants to part with top prospects these days
Theres a difference between guys like Vlad jr and other prospects.
He said top prospects, so there isn’t that big of a difference.
There is a huge, huge difference between Vlad Jr. and prospects like Brinson and that is not a knock on Brinson. It’s a testament to how good scouts think Vlad will be. Vlad is a 70 FV prospect, compared to Brinson who is a 55 FV prospect. Brinson who is still a very quality prospect and probably an overall top 25 prospect in baseball, is closer in talent to the #200 overall prospect than he is to Vlad Jr. Brinson is more on par with Anthony Alford than Guerrero or Bichette.
I don’t care how some journalist or website rates a prospect, I rate them myself with 20 yr+ of scouting experience.
Vlad jr is the closest thing to a lock to be a star in the majors. That is not the same for Bichette. He will make the majors but probably be a below average major leaguer. I would trade Bichette now while his value is highest.
The same could be said for anything though. We’re not going to take an anonymous posters word more than the professional scouts who rank them as a job.
Nobody wants to. Its just that some arent willing to.
Dombrowski would have
DUMBrowski
If Cain gets 5 Martinez is an easy 7
Martinez for 7 years is a disaster waiting to happen
So is a 32 year old CFer for 5. at least JD can DH
I didn’t like Cain for no more than 3 years
Agree, then signing any 30+ YO player whose only attribute is their legs, does not know how to take a pitch much like Carl crawford, Ellsbury and now Cain and gets massively overpaid is a disaster.
Not that giving Martinez 7 years isn’t a bad idea because it is, think 5 is the max, but any guy that only has speed should be 3y max.
And to be blunt Cain is not that good to the point that you give him that many years, especially at the age of 31. Last season was a career year for Cain and even then it wasn’t all that impressive. Good but not great
ummm Last year was a creear year? what about his top 3MVP year in 2015?
Last season was not a career year for Cain. It was a return to his previous form after an injury marred season in 2016. Cain had a 6.5 war season when the Royals were in contention.
I am as down on Lorenzo Cain as anyone, he isn’t very good at anything, but the AAV of this deal is fairly low so the risk isn’t that big.
I think he meant contract year
JD is already a Dh?
His defensive stats, especially 2016 where he was -22 DRS, -19.7 UZR point to that)
Our good friend Mr. Cain posted +53.8 UZR and +78 Defensive Runs Saved, for his career — compared to JD’s -33DRS, and -25.3 UZR.
All things being equal, I’d rather have JD. Contracts included… Give me Cain’s 5yr $80M everyday, if JD gets more than 5 yr 125M
16 million is fairly low??
The qualifying offer is worth $17.4 million.
Disaster by the 2018 all star break
Like Stanton for 10.
Martinez for 4 years is a disaster waiting to happen. The Red Sox should tell Boras that Martinez would look great in Pinstripes..
lol @ easy 7.
What does one have to do with the other? Cain was never looking for the money Martinez is, and despite not having as prolific a bat as Martinez, Cain’s market was wider. Martinez has no market. His free agency mirrors Chris Davis’ from a few year back…wants insane money/years that no one wants to pay. Davis only got his because the Baltimore owner made a foolish decision. And that’s the only way Martinez gets more than 5 years.
@Tom your points are spot on. Cain’s AAV is relatively reasonable within the landscape of baseball these days. Martinez is being positioned like he is one of the all-time greats of baseball. Good player – yes. But he’s not worth $30M a year. Especially over 7 years. Chris Davis’s contract is going to haunt Baltimore for years to come. It looked foolish the day it was signed, and looks even more foolish today. Boston has all the leverage as they are the only fit right now for Martinez. Would be nice to see a team not cave to Boras for once.
Personally, I would love to see the Bosox figure out a way to pry Domingo Santana from the Brewers. That would make signing Martinez a moot point.
Not knowing the Bosox farm that well, does anyone have suggestions on trade packages? Three way deals?
I disagree on Davis contract being that bad for the O’s. l mean they’re only paying him 1mil per year for the next 160 years.
Well played Tom. Agreed.
Cain’s contract has no impact on Martinez, there has to be someone else bidding to push it to 6 or 7 years. If someone does Boston will be smart to walk away.
Just because one team is stupid and gives Cain 5 years doesnt mean another team has to follow suit! Not sure I follow the logic?
Not if no one else is bidding for him I’d be fine if the Sox went cheap this year for next yr class of free agents
Remember it didn’t cost them much to get David Ortiz and look at what he did
*Steroids*
Clown
So if the Brewers sign Cain to a terrible, long contract the Red Sox should do an even worse one?
Cain may become a defensive liability over 5 years. JDM already is. As to what this has to do with each others contracts is beyond me. Maybe the Brewer’s offered a 7 year to JDM and while he was thinking about it, they signed Cain?
I don’t see Cain being a liability. Brewers signed Mike Cameron in his age 35 and 36 years and still produced at a high level in CF. Not elite like he was in his prime but still very serviceable.
Cameron was an exception. It’s hard to be a real mlb cf past 34, 35.
But the thing with Cain is he doesn’t have to be a CF to reap value. He’s also a plus RF in which you can easily him easily making that full time transition.
There is no correlation between the Brewers being stupid and giving 5 years to any other team no having to be stupid and give JD 7
Exactly what I was going to say. One teams stupidity shouldn’t force another team to be stupid.
Giving up vald junior for yelich, HA !!!! I wouldn’t have complained if the jays did that but obviously they aren’t the marlins when it comes to trades lol
If Yankees have 10-15, why don’t they sign Nunez in that range for 3 years? He plays multiple positions so wouldn’t necessarily impede Torres down the line..
What about andujar though ? He has much more upside and talent than nunnie at this point
Andújar Is a great talent but unproven. I’d take nunez to be the better player in 2017
Everyone is unproven at some point and to be frank Nunez isn’t really that good to the point that he should block a player. Andujar is a top 100 prospect in the rankings and as such he needs to have a legit time period to develop
Thanks but no thanks. See above^^^
Nunez’s glove is horrible. Plus they already have Ronald Torreyes who plays multiple infield positions.
Because, Nunuz sucks defensively…….he’s got a 10 cent head when the chips are down, which is why the Yankees got rid of him the first time. And, although he looked impressive offensively, he’s a rally killer!
No to Nunez!
One big reason might be the disaster that was Nunez on defense when he played for the Yankees. Everybody in the stands and in the media was on him and that just made it worse. Personally, I think the Yankees should sign him if they can get him for a decent price for 2 or 3 years and without a NTC, but there is a risk involved from past events.
Wondered where Joel Sherman’s expertise on Yankee matters had gone…
Joel Sherman at least is good for some laughs
Why on earth would the Sox up their offer? Not unless another team had beaten their initial offer. It’s not about what a player “deserves” it’s about what the market bears. If the Sox had made a five year $100M offer, seems to me if I’m interested in him I offer five years 110M. The idea that the next stage in negotiations is two years and 40 million more is ludicrous. If it gets there naturally, by way of bid, then fine. But just picking numbers out of the air is how MLB got into trouble with stupid, franchise-wrecking contracts. … the classic case is A-Rods deal with the rangers, that 250M number came after Tom hicks wanted to “double” the previously largest deal. Not only was is a mistake for Texas but it artificially inflated the entire market. Because an egomaniacal billionaire was an idiot.
I hope they stand their ground. I don’t think Martinez is 25M/yr good.
I thought the more updated offer was 5/125 for Martinez?
I feel like 25/year is more palatable at 5 or less years.
Your point on ego’s and crazy numbers is spot on. The ARod contract led to the Rangers declaring bankruptcy and to Hicks being forced to sell the team. Texas is still paying AFraud for a few more years.
The Marlins got a fine return but goes to show that the poster here who pounded the table for Robles, Acuna, Guerrero, and so forth was just off. Brinson is clearly the next tier down. But again, still very good.
exactly
The Marlins netted the #18 brinson and #75 harrison overall prospect according to BAs 2018 list along with Isan Diaz who was #93 last year.
The Marlins netted 3 top 100 prospect talents for Yelich. Had the Marlins been able to land Robles Acuna Guerrero the secondary pieces wouldn’t have been as good.
Personally, the Marlins made the right decision to accept a Brinson Harrison package because of their weak farm. The Marlins need as many chances to hit on guys as they can get. Cause if Acuna/Robles/Guerrero bust then theyd have traded their best asset for nothing essentially.
Not questioning any of that, but that’s not what the Marlins set their sights on… They wanted the a top 10 guy but were unable to land one. That part of it is beyond well known at this point. What they got was a good return. Not great, but good. They won the surplus value war and it is a fit for their needs going forward. If I were a Marlins fan, I’d be as pleased as I can be for whats going on.
After everything for MLB AAV CBT purposes: guaranteed salaries, dead money (McCann & Headley), arbitration awards, pre-arb estimates, 40 man roster, allowing for potential incentives for: Stanton, CC & Robertson, what MLB charges all ALL teams for Health, Insurance, etc. benefits the Yankees have only $20MM left before they hit the CBT threshold. They are at $177MM (CBT threshold $197MM)..If they want to leave about $7MM+/- which would be the minimum for any trade dealine moves andc in season call ups that means they have ONLY $13MM left to spend this winter. That’s probably just enough for 1 FA signing either a SP or a decent infielder like Todd Frazier or Neil Walker. IDK where these guys in the media come up with up to $30MM available for the Yankees.
Yankees are only paying head case 500k this season
So, that’s whatever
Ignorance is bliss.
F Schoop for skipping fanfest just because they haven’t reached agreement for this year yet. Pathetic. Especially after he missed last year. Last year was excusable but this year he cancelled with little notice or reason. It’s about the fans and not about him getting 7 million over 6 million.
If the Red Sox make another offer their bidding against themselves. If somebody else wants JD for 5/$125 ….let them have him…..Who else out there would pay more?
What’s Brandon Phillips up to? He’d be cheap, and a solid answer to 2B, and/or 3B. Plus, he could be signed to a 1-2 year deal to bridge the gap for Torres, and Andrujar.
Just trade Schoop now. He’ll be the next big name Oriole after Machado to bolt and at least you’ll get top dollar for him.
Schoop is well worth that 9mil he wants. Cheapa$$ Orioles should give it to him. Schoop and Manny are going to show the world what an awesome doubleplay combo they are.
That’s no how the system work IDIOT. .
what they give him now impacts what he will get each time he goes to arbitration
Glad Toronto wouldnt give up Vlad jr. even if its for Yelich. Its been reported that Vlad jr. has a strong work ethic and preparation off the field.
Just wanted to add… Along with Guerrero, Bo Bichette drew attention after a report from Jeff Blair indicated that the Blue Jays are ready to consider trading Bichette if a team takes on the Kendrys Morales contract.
That would be the worst salary dump ever.
Just cut him and pay the 22 million left. Simple.
Why give away the 2nd best prospect just to save salary.
My cell phone bill just about covers his contract anyway. Over priced monopolized cell service at it’s finest
Weren’t the Orioles a team that doesn’t negotiate after exchanging figures? Did something change?
Yes, their in house arbitrator Russell Smouse retired. He had an impeccable record in arbitration so O’s were file and trial. Now that he’s retired they aren’t as confident going to arbitration and would rather reach agreement. They changed their philosophy based on no longer having Mr. Smouse as their representative.
Thank you!
So the Orioles are looking for another in-house Smouse?
Maybe the Yankees ( and others ) could allocate some money to lower their ridiculous ticket prices. Nah, who cares about the fans.
I don’t blame Miami for asking for Guerrero, and the Jays for not balling at the price. He’s about the definition of untouchable, except for the odd outlier
The Jays are not going to trade Vlad jr, so forget about proposing silly trade ideas involving him.
I know I said before I wouldn’t mind the Vlad Jr for Yelich deal. But I’m starting to think we dodged a bullet by not doing it.
It seems like we offered Bichette and others but Miami balked at it.
Then settled for less
I’m happy to hear or FO is at least trying to get young impact players. And NOT give away our future at the same time.
Adding Yelich would have been no guarantee of a WS let alone PO spot
We are still a few pieces away. Unfortunately.
Donaldson is probably gone at the deadline unless we are actually holding a playoff spot
Guerrero would only be traded for two players: Trout or Kershaw. It would take more than just Guerrero for either those two but I can’t think of any other players they would trade him for.
LOL
It’s not unfathomable that it’s take one of those kinds of players to pry him loose. He did just get baseball America’s first ever 80 grade I believe.
MLB Pipeline rated him at 60. They say his fielding at 3B is pretty shaky.
His hit tool was an 80
5yrs for Cain at a lower AAV, I don’t know that it helps JD, he’s just a different profile of a player and lets not forget despite JD’s monster year only a 4.1 WAR to Cain’s 5.3. Cain looks far more like a player who’s well rounded game ages well. Jay Bruce is many ways lines up more similar a player in profile, age, lack of QO tag to JD and look what he got.
Teams used to be ok with the idea that any free agent signing ultimately cost you an extra year @ the AVV to get done. That thinking seems to have been eclipsed by the simple idea a player is worth X total value in some combination of years and AAV. Giving an extra year is @ AAV is why there’s so much dead money floating around the league. In essence the Ellbury’s, Kemp’s, AGon deals are taking money from this years FA class.
Wonder when GM’s have seen to be so reluctant to offer 4-5+ years to this point, that the Brewers GM caved to 5 years for Cain. It certainly seems to have been an attempt to offer less years by ML teams to keep the contracts and risk down for financial reasons.
Some reports had a team like the Indians only willing to offer three. It is curious that with now a high water length already signed that remaining FA’s, especially position players, that they now back in the saddle and in great shape when comparing themselves to Cain and him being the oldest (31) top tier FA available this winter.
Cain got 5 years because bidding was at 4 years, so that was what it took to land him. Who’s bidding on JDM?
Poor Orioles fans. Must suck losing franchise players cause ownership is so cheap.. lol
That is a false narrative. Orioles aren’t cheap at all, just poor at running a franchise.
I think Brandon Phillips would be a great fit for the Yankees and trade Frazier & Robertson for Julio & Vizzy
just When I thought the Annual Julio trade proposals were over lol
You can have Folty instead I remember the Yankees wanted him for McCann last offseason
your ideas keep getting worse and worse.
Theirs always the Bi-monthly Brad Hand trade proposals…
*There’s
lol what a horrible deal for the Yankees.
It’s not that bad
Is some other team giving Martinez more than 5 years? If not the Red Sox have no reason to either and I don’t see any other team doing that. Just because one team did something stupid doesn’t mean other teams are now forced to as well.
I feel a strong trade for both teams would be Ben Zobrist to the Yankees for David Robertson and Brett Gardner. That would give the Yanks someone to play 2B/3B until Torres is ready and would take their budget of 10-15m up to 18-23m to get one of the SP’s on the market. For the Cubs gives them a damn good bullpen, Gardner is a solid addition to their OF rotation and means they don’t have to use Happ there as much. Plus their contracts expire at seasons end whereas Zobrist has 2 years left.
Gardner and Robertson for Zobrist? Uh, hell no? Great trade for the Cubs though.
Red Sox,should go after a Brewers OF if they can get a good deal and let Boras and JD go crazy with no good deal in place. I am sick of Yu holding everything up too.
They don’t need an OF’er though. They’ll have their core 3, plus Holt and Brentz on the bench available to fill in. JDM would literally get as minimal time in the field as possible.
Yelich is a great player, no question. But Vlad Jr has the very real potential to be a generational player.
As much as I’d have loved to see Yelich in Toronto, it wouldn’t have been worth the price.
The generational player is Mike Trout. Highly doubt him or Acuna is going to be a generational player odds are against them.
I don’t think there’s a limit to 1 player holding that status per literal generation – if so, I’d still put Kershaw ahead of Trout, if only by a hair. Where there’s 8 years between Trout and Vlad, I’d wager that (assuming Vlad is that good) we’d be in a new stock of players – when Vlad is even Trout’s still-young 26, Trout will be 32.
Regardless, the potential comparable talent is there.
What Trout has done is something that I have never witnessed as a baseball fan.
What Trout has done puts him in the greatest starts of baseball history. I think it is unfair to give anyone a generational talent until they have shown it like Trout has.
To be clear Acuna and Vlad jr. are very good prospects and as are rightly looked as among the best prospects in baseball at the moment but the key word is prospects. To think either one will be anywhere near as good as Trout is an unfair to both Vlad and Acuna.
The JDM going to the Red Sox story just never seems to end.
Does Scott Boras have any financial interest in Trade Rumors or are his associates just carrying water for him by constantly pumping out these rumors?
I would like to see some actual quotes from the people concerned rather than conjecture.
Few seem to ever go on the record.
But I guess you get what you pay for …. lol
I think the Fish got a decent return for Yelich. That being said, they went about it in the dumbest way possible. Refusing to take anything but a team’s top overall prospect, regardless of the team, is stupid. You simply don’t get top 10 overall prospects for very good players with cheap control. You get them for the Sales, Trouts, etc., of the world. However, you might be able to loot a top system like the Braves, for example, if you’re willing to leave Acuna alone. You might still get 3 or 4 top 100 guys. Instead, their “rule” meant they could only trade with someone with a lesser top prospect & system. So you get lesser return just for the ability to say you got their top guy. Silly.
It just gives the impression that the new guys don’t know what they’re doing, and that the holdovers only know how to put together trades if they’re salary dumps or minor deals. It makes the Fish front office look like they simply can’t compete at the highest level.
To say that Cain signing should help Martinez makes little sense to me. Who else is going to pay Martinez? All I have read is Arizona might grab him for a three-year deal at less than what Boston is offering. All Cain signing does is eliminate another team for Martinez as well as offer a couple more outfielders that can be had instead of J.D.
I’m sure I’m going to get blasted by Sox and J.D. fans but I still don’t get why Boston doesn’t just sign someone like Morrison (3.6 WAR) for cheap and let J.D. (4.1 WAR) find another team. My only thought is they are waiting for Martinez to realize he only has one viable option.
You are really on the logical right track.
This article cares nothing about cost.
What is the value of WAR?
If a guy like Lorenzo Cain has a 5.3 WAR doesn’t a guy like JDM that has a 4.1 WAR make “less” money?
4 crying out loud. I know 5 years for over 125,000,000 is just an embarrassing offer… who in their right mind would play a child’s game for more than the entire 1957 NYY team made for 10 years with not 1 free agent goid enough to make that team. These squabbling demands will be stupid pushes if the player performs he will get more at the end of the deal. They all have big egos. I would only pay Trout Betts Machado and Harper superstar money at a position player. Sale, Syndergaard are at the top of my arm deals.
Signing JD to a long contract for more average money than they offered would be a mistake. No one is going to offer him more.
The JDM offer should be lowered to 5 years 58M.
His WAR is only 77% of Lorenzo Cain’s and so should his offer.
Don’t most contracts look bad at the end? Yeah.