In a heated interview on the Dan Le Batard show, MLB commissioner Rob Manfred refuted the notion that he had any advance knowledge that the incoming Marlins ownership group, led by Derek Jeter and Bruce Sherman, had plans for a reduction in payroll (Facebook link with full audio/video of the interview).
Barry Jackson of the Miami Herald, however, cites multiple sources that agree with Le Batard’s assessment, suggesting that the Commissioner’s Office was fully aware of what would unfold after Jeter and Sherman took the reins in south Florida. Per Jackson, two sources that were “directly involved” in the sale said that the new ownership group was required to inform other owners of their intentions with payroll, and they let it be known that there’d be a reduction to the $85-90MM range.
Jackson also writes that someone “directly involved” in the sales process said that Manfred’s comments were “absolutely not true,” adding that the Commissioner’s Office requests an operations plan from all prospective bidders. The Jeter/Sherman group’s operational plan, titled “Project Wolverine,” according to Jackson, was “widely circulated” and known about prior to the league’s approval of the sale. Manfred paints the bidding process in a considerably different light.
“Just like in every other ownership transfer, we examined the financial wherewithal of the group,” says Manfred of the approval process. “We made sure that the governance structure of the partnership was consistent with our rules. And we had interviews with the people who were going to be running the club to get a general understanding of their approach to running the club. Everyone that was involved in that process, including me, was convinced that this group is committed to winning baseball in South Florida over the long haul.”
Manfred repeatedly denies any knowledge of the Marlins’ plans for tearing down payroll and stresses that he is a firm believer in the fact that the Jeter/Sherman group has a long-term plan and a commitment to bring winning baseball to south Florida. Pressed on whether there was an indication that the Marlins planned to trade Giancarlo Stanton and others, Manfred emphasizes that specific baseball operations decisions aren’t a part of the approval process when soliciting bids from prospective owners.
“We don’t approve, dictate or necessarily ask clubs what they’re going to do with respect to their individual operations,” Manfred explains. “Those are local decisions that really are not part of the approval process. .. We don’t get into, ’Are you going to trade Player X or Player Y at a particular point in time?’ Nor do we ask them to make a commitment as to what they’re going to do with payroll before they’ve even got in and made an evaluation of their talent level, their ability to win with the people that they have there. That’s just not how the ownership process works.”
Manfred goes on to argue that Major League Baseball has long been a cyclical game, adding that recent World Series victories from the Astros and Cubs underscore the fact that aggressive payroll cutting and rebuilding tactics can indeed produce winning clubs. Conversely, the 2012 World Series participants (San Francisco and Detroit) have the first two picks in next year’s draft.
To be sure, there’s logic behind those claims, though not all rebuilds are created equally. As Le Batard contends, south Florida — more than perhaps any other market — has long harbored feelings of betrayal at the hands of Major League Baseball and former Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria. The distrust that many baseball fans in Miami have toward the Marlins organization is palpable, and the support (or lack thereof) that the Marlins figure to receive throughout this process is not synonymous with the loyal fan base that a team such as the Cubs enjoyed during its own rebuild.
That said, the organization is ultimately a business, and it never seemed especially plausible to expect a new ownership group to enter and hemorrhage money by throwing millions more at a roster that lacks the depth of a sound farm system and has ranked last in the National League in attendance in each of the past five seasons.
If anything, the true point of contention for Miami fans isn’t necessarily (or shouldn’t be) the decision to tear down the roster but rather to do so in a manner that looks to have generated more financial savings than top-tier talent in the process. Many pundits have suggested that the returns the Marlins have received thus far are all on the light side. One can argue that cost savings should have taken a back seat to talent acquisition and prompted new ownership to include additional funds in the trades in order to bolster the respective returns.
Whether the league had any inkling that another fire sale was forthcoming for the Marlins, the reality facing the team now is that they’re presented with an even greater uphill battle in terms of generating attendance as they field a team that is without, at minimum, star-caliber players like Stanton, Marcell Ozuna and Dee Gordon. Additional trades involving J.T. Realmuto, Christian Yelich and others, of course, may yet come to fruition; both Realmuto and Yelich are reportedly unhappy with the Marlins’ direction — so much so that Realmuto’s reps at CAA are said to have let the Marlins know that their client would prefer to be traded.
The entire interview between Le Batard and Manfred is more than 17 minutes long but is well worth a full listen both for fans in Florida and those of teams in other markets.
This is how they’ll get rid of Manfred.
Gold.
Signed,
A Professional Comedy Writer
Damn, Rob got exposed in that interview …
You mean as an employee of the owners? Shock. Horror.
The entire line of questioning is ridiculous. EVERYONE knew the team would be dismantled. So they ask Manfred questions that they know damn well he can’t answer candidly and it’s all of a sudden a news item?
As far as I’ve heard, Manfred did answer the questions candidly. The answers only fail to satisfy fans who don’t understand that he works for the owners. He’s essentially the CEO of MLB, not any sort of advocate for the fans. What he is saying is, MLB reviews a financial plan generally, but they don’t know or demand specifics. To hear some fans commenting on this, you’d think Manfred worked for them, or this was baseball’s first fire sale and teardown. It might be a lousy system, especially as far as the fans in Miami are concerned, but Manfred did not create the system.
Manfred lied. Everyone that bid on the team had to submit a plan and that plan for all of them included lowering payroll until they could overcome Loria’s incompetence. Manfred and all 29 other owners knew what that plan was and they approved that plan.
Manfred was asked directly if he knew that the new ownership would lower payroll and he tried to deflect by saying he didn’t know which players would be traded. When he kept deflecting Le Betard asked again and said give me a yes or no answer. Then Manfred went off the rails. Liars don’t like being caught in a lie.
Hogwash. For fat ass LeRetard to attack Manfred is ridiculous, Marlins fans have no voice cuz they don’t go to games, period. The plan the potential buyers gave MLB is confidential so of course Manfred is not going into details. Miami should not have a team unless they support it, same with Tampa Bay. TB has an excuse, crappy stadium, Marlins fans have no one to blame but themselves.
When Stanton was signed every member of thew media with a chat said he would be going to the Dodgers or Yankees in a few years when the real money kicked in on the contract.
With such a wide spread and well earned belief in the Marlins operation why would any rational three digit IQ baseball fan in Miami invest themselves in the Marlins?
I’ve seen you make this comment so many times I decided to go back and listen to the full interview to find out for myself if there’s any truth in what you say. The answer is, no, not really.
I thought Manfred answered the questions as fully as he could, especially given that Le Batard attacked him right from the start as if he was a trial lawyer cross-examining a witness. He seemed to forget or not know that the commissioner works for the teams in promoting the profitability of the game. He is not and never has been a fan advocate.
If you are saying the problem is with the system, then I agree. I have a problem with it too, but don’t expect the commissioner to criticize or undermine the system or the people for whom he works. That just isn’t going to happen and Le Batard was just plain wrong to attack him repeatedly for not doing what he simply could not d0.
Bottom line, just because you don’t like an answer, that does not make it it a lie.
You want to know why us marlins fans invest in a team that breaks our hearts time and time again? We love them that’s why! No matter what happens I will always be a Marlins fan. They were the first team I saw growing up South Florida in the mid 90’s. Trading all the talent we did hurts but honestly the team was bound to be blown up when Jose died. They have no pitching and too many bad contracts to get some on the FA market. Also the farm ranked 29th in the league so the trade front could only get maybe a number 3 or 4 at best. That’s what the novice fan in SF doesn’t get all they see is here’s another fire sale. Which technically is true but is necessary to become successful and sustain that success. I’m holding my opinion of the new ownership for a few years to see their plan through.
Drama. I agree that they’re returns from these trades are not as good as they should be. It should have been a balance of payroll deduction and prospect acquisition. Not just payroll deduction.
The Marlins had a ready to go lineup. They should have signed Darvish and Arrieta and went for it.
The Marlins needed much more pitching than Dravish and Arrieta. The Marlins weren’t ready to go.
WTF? They already had an MLB payroll for 2018 of $140 million with revenue of just $205 million going into the offseason. Adding Darvish and Arrieta would have added $55-60 million more in MLB payroll. That would have meant losing $100 million in one season. MLB does not even allow that much under its debt service rule.
Were you going to provide the money for those signings ? They didn’t have the money to sign those players. That’s why the fire sale!
The Cuban billionaire would provide the money so the MLB Crime Families decided his money was no good.
Donald Trump offered to buy the Mets over a year before he decided to run for President. Never going to happen.
Mark Cuban wanted to buy a MLB team too and they told him to go pound sand. Interestingly Mark Cuban is now weighing a run for the Oval office.
Mark Cuban wanted to buy the Dodgers. He was quoted at the time as saying he thought it would take years to return the team to competitive shape. Hope he’s found some nice warm sand to pound.
The cynicism of Le Batard and the fan base is indeed something that Manfred should have stood up to. He did, and that’s commendable. Having listened to the interview, however, I only wish he had done it with a cooler head.
I actually got to hear this on my way home today, and I couldn’t believe how angry they both seemed.
Seeing and hearing how angry they both were, I couldn’t believe they still stayed respectful to each other. Le Batards’s line at the end about both of them not enjoying the interview was great.
Typically, when something is “preposterous”…..people tend to laugh….not get Angry.
I suspect that La Batard “struck a nerve”……and fear of exposure caused the violent reaction. Intensity is better fought off with more intensity….so La Batard had to raise his tone to stay in the conversation.
Just my take……..but that’s because “I smell a Rat”.
Google: Kansas City Athletics Yankees
The Marlins have always been a AAAA farm team producing prime-time players for other MLB teams, particularly the Red Sox, Tigers, Yankees and now the Cardinals.
The plan is for them to always be like this and the revenues are divided up 30 ways.
enough with that link
Same goes for the Brewers, Rays and Padres. They’ve been nothing but feeder teams for other markets for decades.
That’s somewhat true, but those teams have not produced players like Miguel Cabrera and Giancarlo Stanton and then traded them away in the prime of their careers.
Look at that Marlins lineup in 2017. When have you ever seen a MLB team dismantle a young lineup like that? THAT is what you rebuild to achieve.
Marlins were going nowhere in 2018. They need lots of pitching and have very little ready in the minors. Let’s not call them ready to win because of their lineup,. They were not ready to win. They needed to acquire 3 more starters. and 1 releiver at least to be truely championship calibre.
Adrian Gonzalez was pretty good when he left San Diego
2 World Series wins would indicate you are wrong. Of course, the fact that it is your post would indicate it is wrong.
How many division titles do the Marlins have?
How many years of the Marlins existence have been losing seasons vs. winning seasons?
On the Dan Le Batard Show? Lol
Sounds like a show that should have a much bigger audience. Maybe Manfred and his 30 family crew will have the Senate/House accuse Dan Le Batard of being a “Russian asset” and “harming our democracy”?
The Commissioner clearly doesn’t respect the institutions of democracy. He should be impeached before he does any more harm to the league.
Of course they knew they would fire sale when they bought the team. Loria talked about dealing Stanton+ before the next owner took over so that the debt level would be lower. Everyone knew this was coming, denying it just makes the whole thing more ridiculous.
Exactly. Bad contract for the Fish. Dump it/him. This a good move by the FO.
Great move for the front office. Terrible move for the fans.
Great move for Jeter’s bank account, horrible for the baseball fans of Miami.
Jeter’s rise is unprecedented—he went from being the most overrated player in MLB history, to HOF candidate, to team owner and potential billionaire in no time. He must be Illuminati or something.
Jeter only has a 10% ownership! I don’t think that qualifys as team owner!
I feel badly for Marlins fans, at least the few that show up and cheer on their team. At the same time, I feel better about the Marlins under Derek Jeter’s ownership than it was under Jeffery Loria’s direction. As a player, Jeter was always careful not to put himself in embarrassing situations, and while he’s had a few mishaps at the start, I believe he has a plan to get the team on the right track. Astros fans were calling out the new owner when he took over too, and they were moved to a different league after more than 50 years in the NL. Turned out pretty well for them. Let’s see how things look by 2022.
The Stanton trade? Yeah, it was favorable for the Yankees, but it was a stupid contract to be given by the previous ownership – all leverage for the player, none for ownership, especially with the ups and downs the franchise has experienced over the years.
Loria knew all along that he would not have to deal with the aftermath of the Stanton deal. Why do you think it was so back loaded.
I’m a Cardinals fan, so my interest here is somewhat passing. When the top 2 bids for Stanton were basically rejected by Stanton, the Marlins were stuck. Either take less in return or lock up a ridiculous portion of the payroll for 1 player. As for the people complaining about Ozuna (the player I secretly wanted in StL all along), Alcantara has a lot of promise. He needs to keep the walks down but he has legitimate talent. Sierra has value as well. Ozuna only has 2 years left in his contract and is a Boras client. IMO it was the most balanced trade they’ve made up to this point.
The Marlins are just one of thirty crime families that compose MLB. Jeter is the new Made Guy in the club.
Miami has always been run as a AAAA farm team and they always will be. Yelich and Realmuto will be strategically sent to other MLB teams in need of their service to make it to the playoffs or advance as the other MLB Crime Families agree to.
So now it’s the Marlins as your new conspiracy rants instead of the Phillies huh? Ok!
Never really seen Manfred snap like that before. I know Le Betard came at him hard, but I feel as though he could have handled it better. Now Manfred seems like another public enemy for us South Florida baseball fans (the few of us that there are) because of the way he seemingly allowed us to get screwed over once again.
You can’t possibly believe there was any scenario in which Stanton was staying do you?
You can’t pay one guy 30 mil when you are last in the league in attendance.
@emac22….it really doesnt matter if Ronald McDonald or Luke Skywalker became the Marlin’s new owners, Stanton was being traded and the team would be broken down and rebuilt…..it is very disingenious of the MSM to pretend that this is not the best course of action for the Marlins and that the last 2 World Series winners did not do the same things…….Personally, I think the MSM is attacking anyone, just to take the heat off their own sex assault and rape scandals…..
Luke Skywalker would have never traded Stanton. GTFO
Let’s be accurate here please………Stanton doesn’t make $30 Million for several more years. $25 Million is the 2018 number.
The Marlins were “a few good players away from a playoff team”. If you don’t believe that, you didn’t watch them very much in ’17. A Playoff Run raises revenues and attendance.
Fernandez was a Huge loss (in many ways)…..but the core was there for most of the season. There was LOTS of energy there. The guys LOVE playing together. But…. The Pitching ran dry after 2/3 season, and they quickly fell out of contention.
New owners should have considered “Investing” in that core for ’18 by adding a few pieces. Winners make more money. They didn’t have to “Break The Bank”…….but they could have brought in Tyler Chatwood, Jaime Garcia & Alex Cobb For about $35 Million/yr to solidify the rotation.
Trading Prado & Ziegler would save about $20 Million of that in 2018 (after paying down some of each contract), costing them just $15 M for 3 SP’s……..and then saving another $14 Mil in ’19.
These are just possibilities, and maybe I’m just a So Fl guy who’s sorely disappointed (again) with ownership. But I do feel like there’s been something “Fishy” going on (pun intended)
Being accurate doesn’t mean making excuses.
Saying let’s be accurate and then starting out with a teaser salary instead of the actual cost of a player is virtually a lie. It’s like giving someone an adjustable rate loan and pretending it’s a faxed rate loan.
As for the few good players away statement I can’t tell if you even understand what they means. The farm isn’t very good and the payroll was significantly higher than revenues. There was no way to get these few good players that, if you actually follow baseball can actually cost as much as the teams net income all by themselves.
Injuries happen and they suck but you can’t ignore the reality that you lost a number one starter and simply can’t afford to replace him. Rebuilds really do happen sometimes simply because your team has significant enough injuries to the top talent to force the issue.
You can’t say let’s trade Prado and Zeigler instead as though they didn’t try to trade their worst contracts first. Teams don’t take on big money contracts for average players and both of those players would have required the marlins to pay half or more of their salaries.
Saying the owners should have invested more this year completely ignores the reality of what that means and makes it sound like an extra 20-30 million dollars in losses would have made a difference. It wouldn’t have made any difference but it would have taken 100 million dollars away from the efforts to make the club competitive in the future while also risking an injury to stanton that could have crippled the club for a decade. You are basically asking the new owners to spend an extra 100 million dollars to take one last shot at being competitive before they rebuild instead of getting it over with even though the chance of success is single digits at best and even though the long term risk and penalty is so high.
You have listed some nice reasons why the team needs a rebuild and some excuses for why it was an accident as well as making it clear the team wasn’t good enough even though it was so expensive when compared to revenues. What I don’t see if how you have disputed anything that I said. I just don’t think your ideas make any sense when you actually translate your words into specific player movements.
Yep, Marlins owners have always seemed fishy. Fearless forecast: Attendance will continue to be the lowest in MLB for the foreseeable future. As a taxpayer in Florida I resent having my money used to finance the stadium for these looters/losers.
You are right about the Marlins needing 3 starting pitchers but Cobb, Garcia and Chatwood wouldn’t have turned into a championship calibre club. Not a chance. Chatwood is the real deal, the others not so much. So there was no way that the Marlins would be playoffs bound in 2018.
Having said that I feel your pain. I am a Jays fan and have watched Shapiro and Atkins wreck what AA put in place, by not going all in again and again. Instead they are doing the same thing as the marlins, managing the club so it can be sold at the highest price. No longterm free agents, no trading away prospects worth anything, acquiring young talent, in other words building up the pig ready for the feast, so Rogers can sell. It is not about winning in Toronto or Miami, it is about money.
Yes, sell the team to the other guy, the local Cuban billionaire and Darvish and Arrieta would be coming in and nobody would have left.
That’s why Jeter got the team instead.
What?
The other guy was prepared to lose 100-200 mil a year and you think that is a sane business model for the sport?
Or even true?
Jeter doesn’t have the team! Only 10 % ! Do you ever read about any of these facts before you start this idiocy?
The next crop of Marlins young talent they develop will be shipped out the same way. It’s the plan. That plan will never change.
Don’t cry. That’s how baseball works in small markets unless you prefer to have an OK team most years and never win the world series.
Marlin fans are spoiled and the fact that they have the nerve to complain is nauseating.
If they had saved less on the other trades to get more prospects they would have had to trade more good players to match income with expenses. Would they be better off with more prospects and fewer stars? That option is still there. You could probably even still get more Yankee prospects since I’m sure they’d want Yelich too.
Fans should be happy. The transitional owner is gone, the budget is balanced and new owners are building a sustainable long term team in a really nice park. The team hasn’t drawn or won since Stanton has been there so why the nostalgia for the worst part of Florida Marlins history as though it was an accomplishment?
A new TV contract is on the way. All that money will get divided up 30 ways too and the next group of young talent will be shipped out just like all the other groups of young prime-time talent the Marlins have produced.
Why are you so devastated with the concept of a team spending money after it makes money instead of before?
Why should anyone preserve a rooster that is losing money and is last in the league in attendance?
These days I live for autocorrect errors. So much more entertaining than a lot of what is said on purpose.
HA! I didn’t even read that as autocorrect, I just thought it was a really strange analogy.
Basically what it comes down to is the mlb needs to have a salary cap and floor. No other leagues have MVPs traded in their primes. The system is set up for big market high payroll teams to succeed.
Look as basketball with Russell Westbrook or the NHL with Sidney Crosby. Both are smaller market teams with huge stars. They aren’t getting traded any time soon.
I really enjoy baseball, but the haves and have nots is extreme. Teams simply buy their way into contention.
When your a fan of a small market team in baseball you have to suffer through 3-5 of continuous loosing hoping that a two or three year window opens up for contention and then your roster gets too expensive.
The mlb system is broke.
When was the last time the Yankees had a loosing season?
I feel bad for Manfred. I get having an interview where you get asked the tough questions, but Le Batard was ridiculous, just constantly badgering him and being unreasonable about what he expected Manfred to say. I get that he’s angry, but it was unprofessional and counterproductive. It’s frustrating that Manfred danced a bit on semantics in his answers – he clearly knew that they planned on trimming payroll, though hid behind the answer of not knowing the specifics on how they were going to do it.
That said, while i’m sure frustrating for Marlin fans, Manfred had a point – this is a new ownership group with an actual long term plan. The beggining might feel like the crappy experiences of the past, but it might plausibly be different this time. I’m a big Padres fan, they went through their own murky ownership period, and there was a lot of fans skeptical about the rebuild, thinking it was just another fire sale like in the ’90s. It took a lot of hard work by ownership to engender themselves to the fans, but it’s by and large worked. They turned a first class facility in Petco Park into a first class baseball experience, so even with the on field struggles, attendance has been solid and given room for the full rebuild to take place. The team might not be winning much on the field (in SD at least, the minor league teams almost all made the minor league playoffs), but fans are generally on board with what’s happening and believe that there is a plan that is working.
@anoff….that was the most unfair, biased interview that I have seen in a long, long time.. Dan Lebetard kept interrupting and told the comissioner HOW to answer questions and within 2 minutes had called the commish a liar, because he did not agree with the answers…..Just the usual partisan trash that Espn has become and it is almost like they did not just watch the 2 last world series champions use the same method the Marlins plan to use…..
Everyone has a long term plan. But short and medium plans are important as well. Why agree to the sale to an ownership group that cant afford the sale price and has to have such a devastating short term plan. Jeter is included obviously to provide protection of the majority owner and Manfred from criticism, but its not working. I suspect the long term plan is to poison fans against the franchise so they can move. That is working
@22222….do you watch a lot of baseball? did you happen to notice that the last 2 World Series winners, the Cubs and Astros also stripped their team down to minimum salary to execute a full rebuild?
There was no potential owner that could maintain the trajectory the Marlins were on, both in the sense that no one stepped forward with that sort of money, and the fact that the Marlins were fundamentally unsound financially (ie, the team was being run at a loss). The Marlins have terrible attendance and a lackluster TV contract; even after revenue sharing, they just can’t reasonably support a payroll above the $80-90mil the new ownership is currently targeting (and to be honest, i’m surprised that target isn’t closer to $60-70mil, considering just how bad attendance is).
I used to feel so bad for John Gotti standing there in front of the courthouse in his five thousand dollar suit telling the media that he was a blue collar plumbing parts salesman being harassed by the Federal government.
Now I know I can’t stand you
Whenever you think your team has it bad just remember the Padres have 49 years in the league and one World Series individual game win.
And then there are the Rangers. Zero WS
Or my Brewers, still celebrating a World Series loss from 1982.
LOL. Ok Manfred. Boy, do they think we are dumb. Some are obviously, but they don’t mind who sees through the BS so long as reporters report their fiction
There is no news that more FAKE than MLB “news”.
Jose Canseco has authored two books. On his book tours how many podcasts with Buster Olney, Jonah Keri did Canseco do? How many times has Canseco been a panelist on ESPN Baseball Tonight? FOX?
How about Lenny Dykstra? “Nails” is a huger seller too and all without any help whatsoever from the in-the-tank MLB media.
YouTube search: Lenny Dykstra
So what about those umpires and Lenny Dykstra? Ken and Buster have never seemed to be interested. Same with the “nerds”‘ at FanGraphs.
Forgive me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t there a lot of news when Stanton signed that pointed out how backloaded the contract was and how ownership knew they would sell and not have to front the bill? Not sure if any of those reports were accurate, but it’s not a stretch. I get the anger, but it should, mostly at least, be focused on the previous owners.
His contract was only back-loaded for the first few years. That was Loria’s ploy……told everyone that he was going to “Build A Winner” with the money that he saved…..LMAO. He’s a thief, at best.
Stanton’s current contract is actually fairly even-keeled. Similar payouts for the next 10 years, with a slight increase in the middle.
It’s the same contract and the whole back loaded issue you mention is the remaining portion of the deal. Not only did the team lose a lot of money last year but Stanton’s deal cost 10 mil more this year and Ozuna was about to get incredibly expensive.
This was an expensive team for the market that needed a few really good players added to be competitive and that was going to see two outfielder increase in cost by a total of 20 mil.
That means you’re losing money and just the pay increase to keep 2 outfielders on the team is going to be 20 mil.
A few good players costs at least 20 mil
BTW you have the 20 other guys on the roster getting raises every year.
In two years you might be spending 100 mil a year more to have kept that team together while adding the few good players needed to compete. I’d love to hear math disputing that.
And the big cost for Stanton is the 130 mil he is guaranteed for his age 35, 36, 37 and 38 seasons.+Not only would you have paid 25 mil for this year but you probably would have had to pay an additional 20-30 mil next off season to trade him with that kind of albatross one year closer.
Yeah, that’s what the previous owner is for, to shoulder the blame while the new guy does the same thing and then he sells and he shoulders the blame while the new guy continues the criminal enterprise.
You have to love how the biased, attack MSM lauds the rebuilds of the Cubs and Astros that led to the last 2 World Series winners, and then lambasts the rebuild of the Marlins who likely will use the same methods as the Cubs and Astros to rebuild……What baseball fan seriously did not know the new owners would do a FULL REBUILD, no matter whom they happened to be?….
Are they doing a full rebuild? If so, they better trade Yelich and Realmuto. The difference is, the Cubs and the Astros made moves in attempt to acquire assets, while the Marlins objectives seem tied to payroll. The Marlins could’ve eaten more of the contracts or have taken back toxic contracts to increase their returns on Stanton and Gordon.
Sky14, absolutely correct. It is about money first, quality of baseball second.
Le Batard is a moron. The concept that he, and guys like Bill Plashke, are espousing is that MLB should not allow anyone to buy a team that they can’t afford to run. But MLB already does that. All new owner financing has to work and be approved.
Basically these journalists are saying that Jeter, or any new owner, has to retain bad contracts whether it makes sense for the team or not. What is a new owner supposed to do when the inherited payroll does not fit with the team’s revenues?
Loria ran the Marlins irresponsibly and the Jeter group is trying to bring fiscal sanity to the team. Yes, they’re using a somewhat sledgehammer approach, but like all things MLB, trades, draft picks, etc., what the Jeter group is doing can only be judged several years from now.
So all these guys being shipped out had bad contracts? Ozuna is under his seven years of slave control. So are Realmuto and Yelich.
The Marlins didn’t even have a real payroll yet. The freaking Royals had a payroll that dwarfed the Marlins. The Reds are in the smallest media market in MLB and they have Joey Votto’s contract and Homer Bailey’s contract.
Yelich is making twice what he was last year. (3.5m to 7Mil) Ozuna was probably going up from 3.5 to 9 or more. Stanton was going up 10 from 15 to 25. Realmoto probably increases even more since he’s going to arbitration.
The backloads were all kicking in and this team was about to go from underpriced to overpriced really fast. That is simply how backloads work. I don’t get how fans didn’t know this when there was so much coverage of those deals. Did people think that was fake news?
That doesn’t make them good contracts for the Reds though!
Florida will never support a baseball team, move the two to montreal and vegas and get it over with.
But all those Cubans in Miami love baseball, let’s give them a team and a beautiful stadium that costs a fortune….
Yeah they love baseball, sitting there listening to the game on the radio, not buying tickets and going to the game. I also think they ought to move the team, they built and blew up two WS teams and then just did it again and I find it a disgrace.
Vegas will never supports a baseball team either, nor will MLB approve a team for there any time soon.
They said that about an NFL team too !
Manfred once mentioned LV and then later ignored them….
“Let me go back to a conversation we’ve had already. I think for us to expand we need to be resolved in Tampa and Oakland in terms of their stadium situations,” said Manfred. “As much as I hope that both Oakland and Tampa will get stadiums, I think it would be difficult to convince the owners to go forward with an expansion until those situations are resolved.”
“Once they’re done, I think we have some great candidates. I know the mayor of Montreal has been very vocal about bringing baseball back to Montreal. It was not great when the Expos left. The fact of the matter was baseball was successful in Montreal for a very long time. Charlotte is a possibility. And I would like to think that Mexico City or some place in Mexico would be another possibility.”
mlbtraderumors.com/2017/12/rob-manfred-dan-lebatar…
LV would be as low attendance as any team in FL. People don’t vacation in FL to go to a ball game (except ST when they go to see their team) and they don’t go to Vegas in 115 degree heat for a baseball game. The go to FL for beaches and Vegas to gamble. Many of Those that live there are from all over (including me at one time for a decade) and already have “home teams” Many are retired, just like FL and even going to a night game, fighting LV traffic when it’s still 100+ outside is not enjoyable.
NFL may be able to support a team with only 8 home games but even that might be iffy for a transplanted team. Fans from Oakland (if they will still support the team) face either an expensive weekend flight or 9 hour drive topped off buy hundreds in room and meal costs. Having lived there (I thankfully escaped) I’m not convinced the Raiders will be all that successful in Vegas.
Not saying that Las Vegas would be a great baseball town but if was only a matter of summertime climate and traffic lots of cities wouldn’t have teams.
Not many are 105 or hotter at 8 pm. A comparable city, weather wise, would be Phoenix. 6th largest population in the US they draw 2mm a year with a population of 1.5mm +…Vegas 622,000+.
While the intense heat is only one factor it also has a lot to do, IMO, with life style and work. The largest employers are the Casino industry and a huge # of that workforce works evenings when the casinos are busiest. There are many factors but after spending a decade there they would be about where Tampa is in per game attendance.
What do you think about Oklahoma City as a baseball town ? Or Memphis ? Maybe Nashville?
Not sure any of Oklahoma City or Memphis or Nashville could support a MLB team. Too small a market?
It’s not about support, it’s about how much can the MLB Crime Families loot from the market. They would be more AAAA farm teams like the Marlins and Pirates who supply prime-time ready MLB players to the Yankees and other playoff teams while the tax payers in those markets pay for free ballparks with roller coasters and Comcast sets up a sports cableTV network there to gouge the locals with and pass on MLB’s cut.
Very good points Cat! You are one of the most level – headed
You could be right, I do know that Nashville is one of the fastest growing cities in the US! Memphis
and brightest people on here!
and Nashville both support very good Triple AAA teams.
Far better places to move than Vegas. Would have to be a more eastern city than that anyway.
Montreal yes. Someone quickly call Jonah Keri, Tim Raines, Warren Cromartie. Let’s get this thing done!
Are we just going to let the name “Project Wolverine” slide? It sounds better than “Project Purell”, but still a little ridiculous for a plan to give away all your good players for pennies on the dollar.
Wolverine, slashing payroll, gutting the team.
MLB media lets everything about the 30 Crime Families slide out of site.
“Access Journalism”
Why aren’t Jose Canseco and Lenny Dykstra commentators in MLB media? Why has there never been any press about Lenny Dykstra controlling the umpires while he was a player?
Marlins made some smart moves though. Reversion to the mean. Ozuna likely posts 25 HR 85 RBI and a sub .275 BA. Dee Gordon is just a speedster with a PED suspension. And Stanton’s contract is terrible for a guy that averages 124 games a year. He isn’t Mr. Durable. He can mash, no doubt, but doesn’t help if he’s on the sideline.
Marlins didn’t get enough elite talent for these assets. Period.
Baseball has a huge problem with the Florida market. For whatever reason, it doesn’t draw. We can all blame Jeter but the fact is that the team doesn’t draw enough,even with the young stars now so feverishly being unloaded. I don’t blame new management for stripping down…plenty of other teams, including big market ones, have. The problem is optics more than economics. What MLB should have been pressing for was not the maintenance of a high payroll short term, but a serious marketing plan. How do you engage with the community so they support you beyond digging into the taxpayer’s pockets for a stadium?
Some good comments this morning about this topic. As a native New Yorker and Yankee fan since I was kid in the late 70’s and early 80’s and having seen it all, I recently moved to Miami and I can tell you 100% the lack of interest in baseball here is baffling. I just don’t get it, especially for a region, culturally speaking and with the demographics that on paper should be a huge baseball market.
First order are the team names, both of which are absolutely terrible from a branding perspective. The Florida Marlins (and Tampa Bay Rays) lacks appeal. Now that I’m in Miami I’m going to be looking at this closer going into next season as I’m a baseball guy and will be going to games. I really don’t understand this market.
As a So Fl resident for 30 years……what’s even more amazing is that “This area is full of transplants from NY, NJ, and the whole Northeast”. They’re supposed to be Baseball Fans?
WHERE ARE THEY ALL??? (Hint: Not at the Stadium…..lol)
Sure there’s a huge Latin presence in the Miami area…..but the stadium was built in the wrong place. 40 mins north of Miami is a place called Delray Beach. Lots of Land west of town. Plenty of room for a stadium to be built…..great access to the major highways……….instead of cramming it into several city blocks, in a not-so-great neighborhood. There’s a huge Fan base that lives within 45 minutes of Delray, but well over an hour from the current location. Bad planning. Bad idea.
Nailed it. Have family in Delray Beach. It’s gorgeous. And it’s heavy on the New York transplants. It would have covered both the Broward and Dade markets, whereas, the Marlins are positioned to cover only Miami.
We also need to understand that the Latin community doesn’t even really have the Marlins on their radar. In their home countries, they all follow the Yanks, Dodgers, Phillies, and a few other teams.
The Marlins need to start over from the ground, rebrand and take the stupid Marlin away. I for one support Jeter in this process. Like I said, I applaud his quick action even if he doesn’t make friends in the process.
Miami had great crowds for the WBC.
Maybe Miami drew big for the WBC because the ticket buyers knew all the best players weren’t going to be shipped off to the Yankees before the games began?
No! Just shipped out to teams all over the World! Stupid comment as usual!
What I don’t understand is why everyone is harping on Jeter, Sherman, Manfred and really anyone else they can point a finger at, but the culprits were Loria and Samson. Loria slide out the backdoor with a wheel barrel full of money, left a team laden with debt, and terrible operations. They leveraged all their assets for their own benefit, which was visible to everyone and now everyone is PO’d with Jeter. Um. No. What he is doing is less than ideal, sure, but 100% necessary. If anything, I applaud Jeter for his decisiveness and quick action to tear it down. Get this thing moving in the right direction much, much quicker. Too bad many people “choose” to not see this.
Because Jeter and Sherman KNEW all of that information before they purchased the Team.
They CHOSE to go through with the deal. It’s not like “it was a secret that they got stuck with”. They knew EXACTLY what they were going to do. Bet the house on that. Nobody spends $1.2 Billion without doing their research…..(if they did…..they deserve to be bankrupt…..)
Trading Stanton isn’t the issue. We all knew that day was coming, even if Loria never sold the Team.
The issue is the way it was handled. How Jeter’s former team swoops in and he accepts their offer in less than 36 hrs…..after negotiating with other teams for weeks. Smells Like Corruption…..Like An Inside Job…..
Miami wasted weeks negotiating. Stanton submitted a list of the 4 teams he would accept a trade to and STL/SF were not on it. When that failed Miami lost all leverage Cubs/Astros/LAD never negotiated after that debacle. How is that an inside job?
Dodgers were in discussions. Jeter knew Stanton’s 1st choice, and that he’d accept there, regardless of the return. He jumped on the yankee’s offer before LA could clear space for him.
Isn’t it at all peculiar that the Dodgers made that huge trade just a week after Stanton went to the yankees???
@ Kbarr…..Making a lousy offer and negotiating are 2 different things.
“While the Los Angeles-born Stanton would have preferred to go to the Dodgers, they didn’t make an offer that “intrigued” the Marlins, Joel Sherman of the New York Post tweets. Sending Stanton to the Dodgers would have required the Marlins to take on more bad contracts than they were “comfortable with,” according to Sherman, who reports that LA wanted Miami to accept one or both of Adrian Gonzalez or Scott Kazmir and absorb $30MM of Stanton’s contract. The Marlins found acquiring Starlin Castro from the Yankees much more appealing, as he’s someone they could slot in at second base or flip elsewhere.”
mlbtraderumors.com/2017/12/reactions-to-and-effect…
He submitted a list of a dozen teams initially.
“He submitted a list of a dozen teams initially.”
Nov. 15 “A baseball source said yesterday that he’s been told Stanton will not accept a trade to either the Red Sox or the Cardinals, another team linked early and often in trade rumors. Perhaps there’s some flexibility in that stance, but Stanton’s preference is a factor.”
businessinsider.com/giancarlo-stanton-will-reporte…
Nov 16.. “With his representatives nearby, Stanton wouldn’t say whether he had mentioned any specific teams or whether the Marlins had informed him of any potential deals.”
“We’re going to keep that internal and worry about those certain things when the time comes,” he said. “It’s not going to be a big public ordeal.”
stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinal…
Nov 27 “•Jon Morosi of MLB.com reports that Stanton has given the Marlins a list of teams to which he’d accept a trade, and the Dodgers are among those teams (all links to Twitter). Per Morosi, the Dodgers and Marlins have discussed some Stanton trade scenarios, but the Giants and Cardinals have shown more focused interest in Stanton. Some teams interested in Stanton feel the Dodgers are his top choice, which could slow negotiations as Stanton could veto any deal until knowing for certain that the Dodgers don’t plan on making a move for him. At this point, however, Stanton has not rejected any trades, according to Morosi.”
mlbtraderumors.com/2017/11/giancarlo-stanton-trade…
Dec 7 “Now told Stanton will approve : Dodgers Yankees Cubs Astros”
twitter.com/craigmish/status/938992764456275969?la…
I have not seen a source that sais 12 teams. Care to list it?
Your perspective of this is unfortunately, terribly flawed. You’re indeed correct they KNEW all the information and what did you expect them to do once they HAD all that information?
They pretty much had three options with Stanton (and only three options). Trade him to the Dodgers or Yankees or keep him. If they kept him, along with other players the team would be operating at an extreme deficit. We’re talking about a $300mm asset and Jeter saw a limited window to off load that salary to the Yankees, which we could say was wisely timed considering there have been absolutely ZERO big money contracts handed out this winter. There were a few last year and it the number drops YOY. So maybe Jeter is a bit of genius in seeing this trend, quickly understanding his market and the direction of baseball overall. Truth is, the Marlins just can’t have a payroll that exceeds $90mm-$100mm a year and you’re not going to have 30% of that entire payroll occupied by a player that has some risk of his own with health.
I’m just saying that there IS blame on the part of the new owners because they Knew What They Were Buying………..and they must have had a plan to dismantle it from the get-go.
Stop blaming Loria (he was an Ass for sure…….but if you don’t like who built the house….don’t buy it…)
Loria is gone and everything Loria did was known and expected. Loria was always a scumbag. He was sued in Montreal and Loria’s criminal actions met with full approval by the other 29 Crime Families that own MLB.
The locals have never supported the Marlins even when the team was doing well.
I don’t know how anybody anywhere could think that a team with the worst attendance and an absolutely horrific financial situation could do anything but sell off players. Could they have gotten more for Stanton? Maybe. But with the NTC and their financial woes the options were limited. I do think if they had held out longer Stanton would have caved first, if it looked like a trade wasn’t going to come together and he was going to have to lose all the time in front of 800 fans for another year.
There’s no problem with the Marlins finances. There has never been any problem with the Marlins finances. The Marlins owners have always done what was expected of them by the other 29 Crime Families.
There’s no problem with the Marlins finances. That was absolutely adorable. You just made my day.
Your head was obviously used as a basketball as a child. There is no other explanation for your consistent completely moronic statements.
The Marlins had $205 million in revenue for 2017. $400 million in debt that results in debt service of $65 million in 2017, 1/3 of revenue. The 2018 MLB payroll was going to be $140 million.
So the Marlins could either not pay for anything else, no ballpark employees, no minor league players, no front office, no manager, no coaches, no scouts and player development personnel, nothing but MLB payroll OR they could cut payroll to a level that allows them to service their debt and still field a team.
The Marlins no longer have any debt. The debt was part of the $1.2 billion purchase price.
You don’t get to make up your own facts unless you’re a guest on CNN or MSNBC or writing an editorial for the New York Times or Washington Post.
How can this nut job CP get reported
The answer is that most people have zero idea how economics work.
Pirate “fans” laughed and bragged about the team’s attendance and ratings dropping and now, they can’t believe the team is cutting payroll.
Mike Illitch (and a few others) turned a generation of baseball fans into welfare queens. They are entitled to the team losing money/making less money because they paid $35 for that ticket.
No one demands that Pizza Hut sell them pizza at cost, but sports teams making money are evil.
Part of the problem is so many people coming to the state when they are older and already have a team they root for so they don’t care about the Marlins or Rays much. Also it is much more of a college football state in my opinion.
Florida is probably the biggest baseball state in the union – in terms of picking up a bat and and glove and going to a ballpark to play. Spring training is deeply rooted in Florida and is one of the big draws in the spring (I’m sure lots of ST stadiums draw more than the Marlins and the Rays). Some of the best players in the game come from schools in Florida and a ton of players live and train there in the offseason. The sport of baseball is perfectly fine in Florida.
But that just doesn’t translate to supporting the Rays and Marlins – even when they succeed. I think if there had never been either of those teams, and you founded a team in Miami without the baggage of Loria history, it might be a different story. But fans in Florida just direct their passions elsewhere, and snowbird retirees follow their hometown teams.
What a liar. He knew the payroll could not be sustained so what options do they have.
MLB should contract down to just the Yankees Dodgers Red Sox and Cubs.
– Competitive bAlaNcE
MLB should contract all the expansion teams, and go back to the mathematical perfection of two 8-team leagues.
You can’t loot a market if there’s no team there.
That’s why the EXPANSION of MLB is being talked up again.
Jeter was handed a mess of a franchise that was bleeding money. So he is blowing it up. Everyone who complains about the Stanton trade forgets that he had them over a barrel. He wasn’t going to go the two teams that offered their best prospects he basically told them that he would go to these certain teams. Once he said that they were never going to get a great haul because the other teams and Stanton had them by the balls.
Save it for the stupid. I stopped watching Fake News over fifteen years ago.
Manfred lies about the baseballs being different, and lies about this. Get this goof outta here
“Manfred and the 30 Crime Families he represents lies about the baseballs being different, and lies about this. Get these criminals outta here.”
There, fixed it for you.
I get why people in South Florida are furious over this. They were duped in so many ways. Firstly, they were screwed with the stadium funding. Second, the clearing of the roster and giving away players to teams like the Yankees is ridiculous. It seems rather obvious the Yankees’ relationship with Jeter lead to the Marlins donation of Stanton.
I’m also pretty sure Manfred lied, and this controversy isn’t going away anytime soon. Yes, there is a cycle, but that cycle is made necessary by behemoths like the Yankees and Dodgers who have the upper hand through their near unlimited financial resources. Until there’s a hard salary cap, that’s not going to change.
Most unbiased fans of the game who aren’t Yankees’ fans surely take issue with small to mid market teams drafting and developing high quality talent just to fill out the rosters of teams that feel they are entitled to a yearly world championship.
MLB is not a growing sport. Revenue might be through the roof, but the sport is not exactly a magnet for younger fans. Until it gets its act together, the fanbase is going to continue to decline. So teams like the Yankees are doing a great disservice to the sport.
Marlins were near dead last in farm system, had too many holes, and had contracts weighing them down. No kidding the Marlins needed to sell. I’m surprised Marlin sport fans are really this passionate because it isn’t shown in the seats. Jeter and the rest of the ownership group is doing exactly what they should be doing. Now, 4-7 years from now if they have a great team and they sell again then this type of hatred is warranted. Until then, shut up Marlin fans.
This isn’t a rebuild, it’s a salary dump. I watched Selig approved an owner for the Padres who couldn’t afford the team and used it like his piggy bank. It looks like this commissioner is doing the same to the Marlins.
Commissioners don’t approve anyone, the other 29 Crime Families do.
The Commissioner does the work of negotiating and dialoging with the Crime Families and then submits what he believes to be the best option according to their wishes and they vote on it.
Got your schtick dialed in today.
youre actually a nut. tin foil hat and all
Wow @jeffmaz. 0 for 2. Great job.
Moorad was given permission to buy a team after the previous owner got caught shtupping his secretary. The November 2008 the divorce courts decided how much the payroll would be the following year. No one else even made an offer to buy that team because of those conditions. Moorad stepped into a bad situation and made the best of it.
Then when he had a chance to finalize the purchase, Reinsdorf and his group of owners shot down the sale to the former agent. A guy that Reinsdorf was on record as saying he hated.
The Marlins have no choice but to cut salary. The incompetent Loria regime left them with a team that has the smallest TV contract in baseball, the least amount of corporate and luxury box sales, the smallest amount of in-park advertising revenue, no event revenue, a fan base that has been run off by lawsuits and bad teams, and no ballpark naming rights deal.
Combine that with a $140 million MLB payroll on revenues of $205 million and their choices were to lose $50 million and still not compete for a playoff spot or cut payroll. Sherman’s ownership group did the only thing they could do.
LeBetard showed how much of an ass he is. Personally I have zero sympathy for Fans like that especially when your team has 2WS trophies to its name. “answer the question, yes or no.” Horrible for a media guy…..a douche. Enjoy your sorry ass team. Reminds me of a time when the Padres and their new ownership traded Gary Sheffield to the Marlins followed by Fred McGriff to the Braves. One player of significance-albeit great significance was to return to San Diego.
Le Betard caught Manfred in a lie. He called him on the fact that Sherman and Jeter’s group had to submit a plan that included lowering payroll to $85-90 million in order to even be considered for ownership and 29 other owners approved that plan.
Manfred may not have known which players would be traded away, but he absolutely knew that the Marlins would be cutting payroll.
Manfred tried to get around a direct question with BS. LeBetard called him on it. Manfred is a douche.
e was lied to because manfred didn’t feel like giving him the time of day. if everyone wants to stroke lebetard i guess that’s cool.if i was manfred, i would never i’ve him an interview again if he thinks it’s cool to be unprofessional e abuse he’s butt hurt that his team sucks. If MLBTR s ok with disparaging Manfred but censoring what I say, i guess they condone his assholish behaviors do think that it’s only Manfred who’s out of line. Miami deserves what it gets especially if LeBetard is their voice
Isn’t this the same Commissioner that claimed the balls weren’t juiced this season?…and didn’t Justin Verlander call him a liar?…and didn’t most of us think Verlander would know better than the Commish, seeing as how Verlander pitches and the Commish, doesn’t?
As a stros fan, I can sympathize with the Marlins fans. But the big difference in the rebuilds is that the stros got rid of high priced, older players like Lance Berkman, Roy Oswalt, Carlos Lee, Brett Myers, and Billy Wagner when they started their rebuild whereas the Marlins got rid of young talent in Stanton, Ozuna and Gordon. It made sense for the stros to turn guys who were on the back side of their career to multiple prospects, but I’m not sure that getting rid of young players for a short term financial gain is a strategic decision from a winning standpoint. Very frankly, if the stros had held on to those guys for another 2-3 years they may have ended up with the same record that they had for the lean years when we fielded a minor league club at the major league level. So it made sense to make those moves. But I think the Marlins were just a few players away from being a wild card contender and not that far away from being a really good club, so it just doesn’t make as much sense to me.
The Marlins always deal away young prime-time talent, exactly what a rebuild is done to acquire.
The Marlins have always been a scam operated by the 30 MLB Crime Families to loot the Miami market and supply the contending teams MLB wants to see advance.
I think this comment section just set a new record! 200+ posts without mention of WAR!!!! Finally, a civilized debate emerges on MLBTR.
Le Betard caught Manfred in a HUGE lie. All the teams knew that the Marlins had to cut payroll. That moron Loria had left them with a $140 million payroll for 2018 with revenues of just $205 million. The most you can afford to pay in MLB payroll is half of revenue and that is on a team that has a reasonable debt to revenue ratio. The Marlins have $400 million in debt.
Manfred lied straight up.
MLBTR, you need to get a new commenting system. My IT manager just said that at least 4 people posting on this board are from the same IP address, just different browsers. That really undermines the legitimacy of the comments.
Email me if you would like a list of who they are. You have my email address.
Isn’t that an invasion of privacy? I’ll have to call my attorney tomm.
By the way, I only have one account ! I just don’t like the fact that someone can hack the system
Bet I know one of the names.
I don’t have your email! Who are they? Please tell us! It’s ok! I agree