In a heated interview on the Dan Le Batard show, MLB commissioner Rob Manfred refuted the notion that he had any advance knowledge that the incoming Marlins ownership group, led by Derek Jeter and Bruce Sherman, had plans for a reduction in payroll (Facebook link with full audio/video of the interview).
Barry Jackson of the Miami Herald, however, cites multiple sources that agree with Le Batard’s assessment, suggesting that the Commissioner’s Office was fully aware of what would unfold after Jeter and Sherman took the reins in south Florida. Per Jackson, two sources that were “directly involved” in the sale said that the new ownership group was required to inform other owners of their intentions with payroll, and they let it be known that there’d be a reduction to the $85-90MM range.
Jackson also writes that someone “directly involved” in the sales process said that Manfred’s comments were “absolutely not true,” adding that the Commissioner’s Office requests an operations plan from all prospective bidders. The Jeter/Sherman group’s operational plan, titled “Project Wolverine,” according to Jackson, was “widely circulated” and known about prior to the league’s approval of the sale. Manfred paints the bidding process in a considerably different light.
“Just like in every other ownership transfer, we examined the financial wherewithal of the group,” says Manfred of the approval process. “We made sure that the governance structure of the partnership was consistent with our rules. And we had interviews with the people who were going to be running the club to get a general understanding of their approach to running the club. Everyone that was involved in that process, including me, was convinced that this group is committed to winning baseball in South Florida over the long haul.”
Manfred repeatedly denies any knowledge of the Marlins’ plans for tearing down payroll and stresses that he is a firm believer in the fact that the Jeter/Sherman group has a long-term plan and a commitment to bring winning baseball to south Florida. Pressed on whether there was an indication that the Marlins planned to trade Giancarlo Stanton and others, Manfred emphasizes that specific baseball operations decisions aren’t a part of the approval process when soliciting bids from prospective owners.
“We don’t approve, dictate or necessarily ask clubs what they’re going to do with respect to their individual operations,” Manfred explains. “Those are local decisions that really are not part of the approval process. .. We don’t get into, ’Are you going to trade Player X or Player Y at a particular point in time?’ Nor do we ask them to make a commitment as to what they’re going to do with payroll before they’ve even got in and made an evaluation of their talent level, their ability to win with the people that they have there. That’s just not how the ownership process works.”
Manfred goes on to argue that Major League Baseball has long been a cyclical game, adding that recent World Series victories from the Astros and Cubs underscore the fact that aggressive payroll cutting and rebuilding tactics can indeed produce winning clubs. Conversely, the 2012 World Series participants (San Francisco and Detroit) have the first two picks in next year’s draft.
To be sure, there’s logic behind those claims, though not all rebuilds are created equally. As Le Batard contends, south Florida — more than perhaps any other market — has long harbored feelings of betrayal at the hands of Major League Baseball and former Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria. The distrust that many baseball fans in Miami have toward the Marlins organization is palpable, and the support (or lack thereof) that the Marlins figure to receive throughout this process is not synonymous with the loyal fan base that a team such as the Cubs enjoyed during its own rebuild.
That said, the organization is ultimately a business, and it never seemed especially plausible to expect a new ownership group to enter and hemorrhage money by throwing millions more at a roster that lacks the depth of a sound farm system and has ranked last in the National League in attendance in each of the past five seasons.
If anything, the true point of contention for Miami fans isn’t necessarily (or shouldn’t be) the decision to tear down the roster but rather to do so in a manner that looks to have generated more financial savings than top-tier talent in the process. Many pundits have suggested that the returns the Marlins have received thus far are all on the light side. One can argue that cost savings should have taken a back seat to talent acquisition and prompted new ownership to include additional funds in the trades in order to bolster the respective returns.
Whether the league had any inkling that another fire sale was forthcoming for the Marlins, the reality facing the team now is that they’re presented with an even greater uphill battle in terms of generating attendance as they field a team that is without, at minimum, star-caliber players like Stanton, Marcell Ozuna and Dee Gordon. Additional trades involving J.T. Realmuto, Christian Yelich and others, of course, may yet come to fruition; both Realmuto and Yelich are reportedly unhappy with the Marlins’ direction — so much so that Realmuto’s reps at CAA are said to have let the Marlins know that their client would prefer to be traded.
The entire interview between Le Batard and Manfred is more than 17 minutes long but is well worth a full listen both for fans in Florida and those of teams in other markets.
CompanyAssassin
This is how they’ll get rid of Manfred.
kidaplus
Gold.
Signed,
A Professional Comedy Writer
Hiro
Damn, Rob got exposed in that interview …
BlueSkyLA
You mean as an employee of the owners? Shock. Horror.
The Natural
The entire line of questioning is ridiculous. EVERYONE knew the team would be dismantled. So they ask Manfred questions that they know damn well he can’t answer candidly and it’s all of a sudden a news item?
BlueSkyLA
As far as I’ve heard, Manfred did answer the questions candidly. The answers only fail to satisfy fans who don’t understand that he works for the owners. He’s essentially the CEO of MLB, not any sort of advocate for the fans. What he is saying is, MLB reviews a financial plan generally, but they don’t know or demand specifics. To hear some fans commenting on this, you’d think Manfred worked for them, or this was baseball’s first fire sale and teardown. It might be a lousy system, especially as far as the fans in Miami are concerned, but Manfred did not create the system.
outinleftfield
Manfred lied. Everyone that bid on the team had to submit a plan and that plan for all of them included lowering payroll until they could overcome Loria’s incompetence. Manfred and all 29 other owners knew what that plan was and they approved that plan.
Manfred was asked directly if he knew that the new ownership would lower payroll and he tried to deflect by saying he didn’t know which players would be traded. When he kept deflecting Le Betard asked again and said give me a yes or no answer. Then Manfred went off the rails. Liars don’t like being caught in a lie.
giantgary 2
Hogwash. For fat ass LeRetard to attack Manfred is ridiculous, Marlins fans have no voice cuz they don’t go to games, period. The plan the potential buyers gave MLB is confidential so of course Manfred is not going into details. Miami should not have a team unless they support it, same with Tampa Bay. TB has an excuse, crappy stadium, Marlins fans have no one to blame but themselves.
Caseys Partner
When Stanton was signed every member of thew media with a chat said he would be going to the Dodgers or Yankees in a few years when the real money kicked in on the contract.
With such a wide spread and well earned belief in the Marlins operation why would any rational three digit IQ baseball fan in Miami invest themselves in the Marlins?
BlueSkyLA
I’ve seen you make this comment so many times I decided to go back and listen to the full interview to find out for myself if there’s any truth in what you say. The answer is, no, not really.
I thought Manfred answered the questions as fully as he could, especially given that Le Batard attacked him right from the start as if he was a trial lawyer cross-examining a witness. He seemed to forget or not know that the commissioner works for the teams in promoting the profitability of the game. He is not and never has been a fan advocate.
If you are saying the problem is with the system, then I agree. I have a problem with it too, but don’t expect the commissioner to criticize or undermine the system or the people for whom he works. That just isn’t going to happen and Le Batard was just plain wrong to attack him repeatedly for not doing what he simply could not d0.
Bottom line, just because you don’t like an answer, that does not make it it a lie.
chopy4
You want to know why us marlins fans invest in a team that breaks our hearts time and time again? We love them that’s why! No matter what happens I will always be a Marlins fan. They were the first team I saw growing up South Florida in the mid 90’s. Trading all the talent we did hurts but honestly the team was bound to be blown up when Jose died. They have no pitching and too many bad contracts to get some on the FA market. Also the farm ranked 29th in the league so the trade front could only get maybe a number 3 or 4 at best. That’s what the novice fan in SF doesn’t get all they see is here’s another fire sale. Which technically is true but is necessary to become successful and sustain that success. I’m holding my opinion of the new ownership for a few years to see their plan through.
Ichiro51
Drama. I agree that they’re returns from these trades are not as good as they should be. It should have been a balance of payroll deduction and prospect acquisition. Not just payroll deduction.
Caseys Partner
The Marlins had a ready to go lineup. They should have signed Darvish and Arrieta and went for it.
jimmertee
The Marlins needed much more pitching than Dravish and Arrieta. The Marlins weren’t ready to go.
outinleftfield
WTF? They already had an MLB payroll for 2018 of $140 million with revenue of just $205 million going into the offseason. Adding Darvish and Arrieta would have added $55-60 million more in MLB payroll. That would have meant losing $100 million in one season. MLB does not even allow that much under its debt service rule.
brucewayne
Were you going to provide the money for those signings ? They didn’t have the money to sign those players. That’s why the fire sale!
Caseys Partner
The Cuban billionaire would provide the money so the MLB Crime Families decided his money was no good.
Donald Trump offered to buy the Mets over a year before he decided to run for President. Never going to happen.
Mark Cuban wanted to buy a MLB team too and they told him to go pound sand. Interestingly Mark Cuban is now weighing a run for the Oval office.
BlueSkyLA
Mark Cuban wanted to buy the Dodgers. He was quoted at the time as saying he thought it would take years to return the team to competitive shape. Hope he’s found some nice warm sand to pound.
dimitriinla
The cynicism of Le Batard and the fan base is indeed something that Manfred should have stood up to. He did, and that’s commendable. Having listened to the interview, however, I only wish he had done it with a cooler head.
ChiSoxCity
I’d be more than cynical if I were a Marlins fan at this point. For their fans, it’s been one slap in the face after another with these illogical roster moves. At the same time, you have Jeter treating the team as his personal ATM machine despite a relatively minimal investment. The situation has gone from bad under Soria to downright toxic in a matter of months.
dimitriinla
Toxic (like tone) is a matter of perception. Jeter quite simply unloaded a contract that was ridiculous from the outset (like A-Rod’s before, like Manny/Bryce in the future). There is also NOTHING to suggest that Jeter made this move to line his own pockets. Nothing, but if you find that something let me know.
sfg415sfc
That argument doesn’t hold water after looking at the return for Ozuna and Gordon. He is simply going cheap, cutting payroll, willing to tank, build farm through draft and hope to copy Cubs formula. Astros weren’t tanking on purpose the way the Cubs did. The way the Marlins will… Jeter is the worst short term thing that could have happened for to team. They might win in the long run, but that’s not genius. It’s a cheap way to try to win at the expense of your fans.
Jean Matrac
Your argument doesn’t hold water either. Correct me if I’m wrong but it sounds like you’re saying the Marlins intentionally took less than they could have gotten for the purpose of tanking. That makes no sense, because a lot of the return they got were minor league prospects who aren’t going to contribute for awhile anyway. If they want to be good in 4-5 years, those guys could be useful pieces.
Besides, they had no choice on Stanton except to not trade him, and Gordon, with his contract did not have a lot of surplus value. The Ozuna trade is the only questionable move, and we aren’t privy to the particulars. Maybe the Marlins really like some of the 4 guys they got for Ozuna.
ChiSoxCity
Trading Stanton wasn’t the problem, it was what they got in return for him that is suspect. The Yankees gave a pittance for the MVP—it was frankly disgraceful. The Marlins should have at least sought equal value, and don’t give me crap about Stanton’s contract. A player of that magnitude with years left on his contract makes salary a moot point, especially where the Yankees are concerned.
kbarr888
I agree ^^^ for the most part ChiSoxCity.
I live in So Florida, and I’ve been a Marlins Fan since they were born. I’ve lived through the “load-ups” and suffered through the “tear-downs”. Some made sense….some were even “profitable” (especially the Reyes, Buehrle, et al trade).
But the Stanton trade just reeks of corruption. The coincidences are just too glaring to ignore. And now…..with this new info (however true it is…..)…..the whole thing stinks even worse. It’s incredibly suspect that just 1 week after dealing Stanton to the yankees……The Dodgers sell off the pieces that freed up the finances to acquire Stanton (and that’s where he wanted to go, obviously).
Maybe they asked Jeter to wait 1 week and they’d make a deal. Maybe they didn’t. Maybe he wouldn’t wait.
I doubt we’ll ever know for sure……but I know how “the Good-Old-Boy-Network” works………and I feel like Jeter wanted “his boys to get Stanton”…..so he pulled the trigger before LA could do their deal. If I was Giancarlo…………I’D BE PISSED OFF!!!
IF……there was ANY impropriety whatsoever in the sale of the Team, the negotiating of the trades, or anywhere in between…….I hope they throw the book at every one of them. Ban them all for Life (including HOF). I hope your hands are squeaky clean Jeter. YOU’D better hope they are…….
cjuluca
Bingo. Stanton and Judge will sell tickets. Have you seen yankee stadium club seats half empty during the season. Stanton to Yankees had to be done before the Dodgers could get rid of the cash.
sngehl01
Not giving a crap about that contract tells us all we need to know on why you don’t understand the trade.
parkdav
^^this
chesteraarthur
The astros didn’t tank on purpose, but the cubs did? That’s an interesting interpretation of reality…
User 4245925809
How was that contract toxic? Stanton was producing and especially if he’s one of the best players in the league right now and young to boot.
consider in the south many times still the perception of northern carpetbagger’s coming down and stealing everything… It still happens and was forced upon the marlins own fan base right here with an ownership full of them.
bosox90
“Astros weren’t tanking on purpose the way the Cubs did” is the funniest thing I’ve heard all day. They lost 106+ games three years in a row.
mike127
+1. Sick of people saying the Cubs or Astros tanked. On the Cubs side, they built 80% of that team through trades. By trading Garza, Feldman, Samardziha, Hammel, Dempster, Maholm, etc they gained and built much if their minor league system and losing more was a by product of trading major league #3 and 4s than anything else. They then chose well in the draft.
People act like they held 4-2 leads in the ninth inning and intentionally walked the bases loaded so they would lose. Losing was a by product of lack of talent not a game by game strategy.
The White Sox are going to lose this year because their #3,4,5 pitchers just aren’t going to be as good as other teams this year and when you have the lesser pitcher in at least 60% of your games, you’re just not going to win 100. It’s not like teams try to lose. It just happens over 162 game season.
bernbabybern
People still don’t get it I guess. Their only options were 1. Trade him to the Yankees or 2. don’t trade him. He picked 4 teams he would waive his NTC to go to and the other 3 didn’t seem very interested in taking the contract.
sully51
The Dodgers cleared payroll to get under the luxury tax threshold. There is about a zero chance they were going to plow over it again with a Stanton acquisition. Just like they won’t be in on any big free agents this year.
Strosfan83
Remember that the Marlins TRIED to trade Stanton to the Cards or the Giants, but Stanton used his no trade clause. They moved to the NY trade as a plan B/C. I can understand the frustration as I am an Astros fan who’s been through a tear down. BTW, look back at who the Stros got for Oswalt, Pence, Berkman, etc, etc. Granted, they were not coming off an MVP season, but we got peanuts for them.
dirtydan
I’m not saying this is the whole reason but part of the reason they got so little for Stanton is they had NO negotiating power. He said he would only go to four teams and two of them weren’t interested. Really limits what you can get in return.
worzelmangel
Yeah. The old boys network… Because Jeter and Cashman have been such good friends. Why don’t you read a few articles about their relationship? As far as the Dodgers go, it’s very possible that the Yankees put a time limit on their offer and Jeter decided to take the bird in the hand rather than the two in the bush. Furthermore, while everyone is down on the return they got, the Marlins just hired the Yankees’ farm system director, who clearly is very high on the guys he got back.
hediouspb
had they said, “fine, stay” and then proceed to trade off players he would have added more teams to his list. they did not have to move him this early.
that said, i think they received fair value to get out from under the contract…. the possibility of something happening and the opt out not being taken would have crippled the franchise for a long time.
walls17
yankees dont need to worry about attendance lol. those club seats are paid for, the people just dont sit there during the games. you fool
sfg415sfc
Not all fans grasp the difference in market size. A team like the Astros almost had to take that route. A team like the Cubs who were already in compete mode were completely content with tear down and tank to achieve their long term goals. Astros were just a middle of the market team who had to take a different strategy to compete. I don’t know enough about MIA new ownership (other than the obvious) but it’s looking like trading all assets and going tank mode is their deal.
ChiSoxCity
Uh, did you see the pitchers the Cubs were signing during their tank years? Their annual team salaries were a joke—of course they were tanking, and no one had a problem with it because that’s how every team besides the Yankees and Red Sox do it.
sngehl01
Some people have the ability to think ahead several years down the road, and not just care about right now.
Pujols, Miggy, etc. Look at how these contracts are viewed into the twilight years.
I love Stanton, but get real. Not only had (prior to 2017) he only played over 125 games ONCE IN FIVE YEARS, he had also hit .240, .265, .288, .249, and .290 those years (most recent to least recent).
The guy was an absolute stud this past year. There’s risk assumed about him staying healthy, as well as repeating. He’s averaged 126 games played per year since his rookie year (7 seasons).
How does Baltimore feel about Chris Davis right now? Toronto about Tulo?
If that’s not bad enough, he has an opt out 3 years in. So not only do you run the risk of him becoming not worth his contract, and paying him all that money, you also risk him being a stud for 3 years and opting out and going elsewhere. Him saying he has no intentions to opt out is simply lip service. Now that he’s on a squad that will contend, he likely won’t, but you can’t expect a guy to say he intends to exercise his opt out in 3 years.
Miami tried shipping him elsewhere for more, but Stanton held the cards. Of the teams he’d go to, several simply couldn’t afford him, or had no interest in that contract. It should be abundantly clear that the contract is toxic if championship caliber teams were saying “no thanks” to getting him for a mid tier prospect or three.
jimmertee
Despite your wishes and rants, the contract size matters.
Android Dawesome
Its salty Man Childrens way of trying to discredit the fact that the Cubs won the world series last season.
Wainofan
Cubs tanked, believe it. They would not have the team they currently do if they had not drafted at top for 5 years in a row. Yes they made good picks that other teams could have, yes they made good trades that worked out, yes they acquired some free agents that helped but a very important piece of the puzzle was tanking. Theo even said so when he took over. No intelligent cubs fan expected them to even remotely compete until 2015, and even then most cubs fans I know said it was a year earlier than expected. I don’t blame them for doing what they did, given their history. 5 years was well worth there World Series win to them. But of course they tanked. Otherwise Theo would have came in and made a couple moves to improve team and tried to compete. No way should any team, especially a big market team, ever finish last or close to last for five years in a row without tanking. Card haven’t even had 4 seasons of losing record in a row since 1910. Let alone finishing at the bottom. They tanked. Time will tell if they can keep this going without tanking again in the future.
elscorchot
Maybe the clause in Jeter’s contract that states he gets paid based on the teams profit is a reason to wonder why he went into full rebuild. I’m not arguing the need for the rebuild. It’s just a very bad look.
Wainofan
No one is trying to discredit their World Series. They earned it and deserve it as much as any other world champ. But facts support that they tanked to get there.
brucewayne
You can’t make a team trade for a player! Especially if that player has a NTC
brucewayne
That in itself limits the teams
brucewayne
and what comes back in a trade . Besides, Michael Hill is the man in charge in Miami! Not Jeter!
sandman12
Actual Marlin fans know that a) Stanton was always a whiff in the clutch b) Yelich is showing no upward trajectory and c) Ozuna was not going to sign with the Marlins when he hit free agency/
User 4245925809
Will agree with the Ozuna part. Loria played hard ball with him and especially Boras early on by sending him back to AAA in 2015 to both teach him and his agent a lesson who ran the team and to get that extra year of team control by keeping him there long enough, tho boras howled and howled about it? ozuna was struggling at the mlb level.
Loria knew after Ozuna blew up after getting demoted he wasn’t going to hang around once his 6y of control was over.
Caseys Partner
Jeter and Manfred should be pictured on every baseball site as looters in hoodies carrying out big screens from a store called “Miami Electronics”.
Nick M
2 Championships in the last 20 years. If that means the fans should be butt hurt then I can’t imagine how the Indians fans feel. Or how I felt before the Cubs finally broke the 108 year drought.
saintchristafa
There was no way cooler heads would have prevailed. The beginning of the interview was at the highest level of confrontation. Also, good interviewers do not corner the subject into Yes or No questions, otherwise it’s an interrogation. Too much passion.
Maybe I’m just frustrated because I do human subjects research, and interviewing is apart of my job. That was a poor way to begin the interview on Le Batard’s part
Caseys Partner
“I do human subjects research”
CIA waterboarding?
saintchristafa
Human subjects research. So I interview people for my University Honors Thesis. There are correct ways to conduct an interview. So yes water boarding
outinleftfield
If the person you are interviewing twice deflects by not answering the question, you press to get a yes or no. Every time. They teach that in Journalism 101. They teach it in sales classes.
Manfred flat out lied. He knew exactly what the plan was and he and the other 29 owners approved it.
outinleftfield
Manfred was asked a direct question of whether he knew that the Marlins would have to reduce payroll. Something we know he absolutely did know. In fact, Manfred and all 29 owners knew what the new ownership’s plan was and they approved it.
Manfred tried to say, well I didn’t know which PLAYERS would be traded. LeBetard asked him again and he tried to deflect again. Then LeBetard asked again and said give me a yes or no answer.
Manfred lied.
Jkolti
I actually got to hear this on my way home today, and I couldn’t believe how angry they both seemed.
jimmyz
Seeing and hearing how angry they both were, I couldn’t believe they still stayed respectful to each other. Le Batards’s line at the end about both of them not enjoying the interview was great.
kbarr888
Typically, when something is “preposterous”…..people tend to laugh….not get Angry.
I suspect that La Batard “struck a nerve”……and fear of exposure caused the violent reaction. Intensity is better fought off with more intensity….so La Batard had to raise his tone to stay in the conversation.
Just my take……..but that’s because “I smell a Rat”.
Caseys Partner
Google: Kansas City Athletics Yankees
The Marlins have always been a AAAA farm team producing prime-time players for other MLB teams, particularly the Red Sox, Tigers, Yankees and now the Cardinals.
The plan is for them to always be like this and the revenues are divided up 30 ways.
getright11
enough with that link
ChiSoxCity
Same goes for the Brewers, Rays and Padres. They’ve been nothing but feeder teams for other markets for decades.
Caseys Partner
That’s somewhat true, but those teams have not produced players like Miguel Cabrera and Giancarlo Stanton and then traded them away in the prime of their careers.
Look at that Marlins lineup in 2017. When have you ever seen a MLB team dismantle a young lineup like that? THAT is what you rebuild to achieve.
jimmertee
Marlins were going nowhere in 2018. They need lots of pitching and have very little ready in the minors. Let’s not call them ready to win because of their lineup,. They were not ready to win. They needed to acquire 3 more starters. and 1 releiver at least to be truely championship calibre.
TNE
Adrian Gonzalez was pretty good when he left San Diego
outinleftfield
2 World Series wins would indicate you are wrong. Of course, the fact that it is your post would indicate it is wrong.
Caseys Partner
How many division titles do the Marlins have?
How many years of the Marlins existence have been losing seasons vs. winning seasons?
xabial
On the Dan Le Batard Show? Lol
Caseys Partner
Sounds like a show that should have a much bigger audience. Maybe Manfred and his 30 family crew will have the Senate/House accuse Dan Le Batard of being a “Russian asset” and “harming our democracy”?
ChiSoxCity
The Commissioner clearly doesn’t respect the institutions of democracy. He should be impeached before he does any more harm to the league.
SheltonMatthews
Of course they knew they would fire sale when they bought the team. Loria talked about dealing Stanton+ before the next owner took over so that the debt level would be lower. Everyone knew this was coming, denying it just makes the whole thing more ridiculous.
dimitriinla
Exactly. Bad contract for the Fish. Dump it/him. This a good move by the FO.
cjuluca
Great move for the front office. Terrible move for the fans.
Caseys Partner
Great move for Jeter’s bank account, horrible for the baseball fans of Miami.
ChiSoxCity
Jeter’s rise is unprecedented—he went from being the most overrated player in MLB history, to HOF candidate, to team owner and potential billionaire in no time. He must be Illuminati or something.
brucewayne
Jeter only has a 10% ownership! I don’t think that qualifys as team owner!
8791Slegna
I feel badly for Marlins fans, at least the few that show up and cheer on their team. At the same time, I feel better about the Marlins under Derek Jeter’s ownership than it was under Jeffery Loria’s direction. As a player, Jeter was always careful not to put himself in embarrassing situations, and while he’s had a few mishaps at the start, I believe he has a plan to get the team on the right track. Astros fans were calling out the new owner when he took over too, and they were moved to a different league after more than 50 years in the NL. Turned out pretty well for them. Let’s see how things look by 2022.
The Stanton trade? Yeah, it was favorable for the Yankees, but it was a stupid contract to be given by the previous ownership – all leverage for the player, none for ownership, especially with the ups and downs the franchise has experienced over the years.
LarsLap
Loria knew all along that he would not have to deal with the aftermath of the Stanton deal. Why do you think it was so back loaded.
barkinghumans77
I’m a Cardinals fan, so my interest here is somewhat passing. When the top 2 bids for Stanton were basically rejected by Stanton, the Marlins were stuck. Either take less in return or lock up a ridiculous portion of the payroll for 1 player. As for the people complaining about Ozuna (the player I secretly wanted in StL all along), Alcantara has a lot of promise. He needs to keep the walks down but he has legitimate talent. Sierra has value as well. Ozuna only has 2 years left in his contract and is a Boras client. IMO it was the most balanced trade they’ve made up to this point.
Caseys Partner
The Marlins are just one of thirty crime families that compose MLB. Jeter is the new Made Guy in the club.
Miami has always been run as a AAAA farm team and they always will be. Yelich and Realmuto will be strategically sent to other MLB teams in need of their service to make it to the playoffs or advance as the other MLB Crime Families agree to.
brucewayne
So now it’s the Marlins as your new conspiracy rants instead of the Phillies huh? Ok!
GONEcarlo
Never really seen Manfred snap like that before. I know Le Betard came at him hard, but I feel as though he could have handled it better. Now Manfred seems like another public enemy for us South Florida baseball fans (the few of us that there are) because of the way he seemingly allowed us to get screwed over once again.
emac22
You can’t possibly believe there was any scenario in which Stanton was staying do you?
You can’t pay one guy 30 mil when you are last in the league in attendance.
mlb fan
@emac22….it really doesnt matter if Ronald McDonald or Luke Skywalker became the Marlin’s new owners, Stanton was being traded and the team would be broken down and rebuilt…..it is very disingenious of the MSM to pretend that this is not the best course of action for the Marlins and that the last 2 World Series winners did not do the same things…….Personally, I think the MSM is attacking anyone, just to take the heat off their own sex assault and rape scandals…..
ray_derek
Luke Skywalker would have never traded Stanton. GTFO
kbarr888
Let’s be accurate here please………Stanton doesn’t make $30 Million for several more years. $25 Million is the 2018 number.
The Marlins were “a few good players away from a playoff team”. If you don’t believe that, you didn’t watch them very much in ’17. A Playoff Run raises revenues and attendance.
Fernandez was a Huge loss (in many ways)…..but the core was there for most of the season. There was LOTS of energy there. The guys LOVE playing together. But…. The Pitching ran dry after 2/3 season, and they quickly fell out of contention.
New owners should have considered “Investing” in that core for ’18 by adding a few pieces. Winners make more money. They didn’t have to “Break The Bank”…….but they could have brought in Tyler Chatwood, Jaime Garcia & Alex Cobb For about $35 Million/yr to solidify the rotation.
Trading Prado & Ziegler would save about $20 Million of that in 2018 (after paying down some of each contract), costing them just $15 M for 3 SP’s……..and then saving another $14 Mil in ’19.
These are just possibilities, and maybe I’m just a So Fl guy who’s sorely disappointed (again) with ownership. But I do feel like there’s been something “Fishy” going on (pun intended)
emac22
Being accurate doesn’t mean making excuses.
Saying let’s be accurate and then starting out with a teaser salary instead of the actual cost of a player is virtually a lie. It’s like giving someone an adjustable rate loan and pretending it’s a faxed rate loan.
As for the few good players away statement I can’t tell if you even understand what they means. The farm isn’t very good and the payroll was significantly higher than revenues. There was no way to get these few good players that, if you actually follow baseball can actually cost as much as the teams net income all by themselves.
Injuries happen and they suck but you can’t ignore the reality that you lost a number one starter and simply can’t afford to replace him. Rebuilds really do happen sometimes simply because your team has significant enough injuries to the top talent to force the issue.
You can’t say let’s trade Prado and Zeigler instead as though they didn’t try to trade their worst contracts first. Teams don’t take on big money contracts for average players and both of those players would have required the marlins to pay half or more of their salaries.
Saying the owners should have invested more this year completely ignores the reality of what that means and makes it sound like an extra 20-30 million dollars in losses would have made a difference. It wouldn’t have made any difference but it would have taken 100 million dollars away from the efforts to make the club competitive in the future while also risking an injury to stanton that could have crippled the club for a decade. You are basically asking the new owners to spend an extra 100 million dollars to take one last shot at being competitive before they rebuild instead of getting it over with even though the chance of success is single digits at best and even though the long term risk and penalty is so high.
You have listed some nice reasons why the team needs a rebuild and some excuses for why it was an accident as well as making it clear the team wasn’t good enough even though it was so expensive when compared to revenues. What I don’t see if how you have disputed anything that I said. I just don’t think your ideas make any sense when you actually translate your words into specific player movements.
acmeants
Yep, Marlins owners have always seemed fishy. Fearless forecast: Attendance will continue to be the lowest in MLB for the foreseeable future. As a taxpayer in Florida I resent having my money used to finance the stadium for these looters/losers.
jimmertee
You are right about the Marlins needing 3 starting pitchers but Cobb, Garcia and Chatwood wouldn’t have turned into a championship calibre club. Not a chance. Chatwood is the real deal, the others not so much. So there was no way that the Marlins would be playoffs bound in 2018.
Having said that I feel your pain. I am a Jays fan and have watched Shapiro and Atkins wreck what AA put in place, by not going all in again and again. Instead they are doing the same thing as the marlins, managing the club so it can be sold at the highest price. No longterm free agents, no trading away prospects worth anything, acquiring young talent, in other words building up the pig ready for the feast, so Rogers can sell. It is not about winning in Toronto or Miami, it is about money.
Caseys Partner
Yes, sell the team to the other guy, the local Cuban billionaire and Darvish and Arrieta would be coming in and nobody would have left.
That’s why Jeter got the team instead.
emac22
What?
The other guy was prepared to lose 100-200 mil a year and you think that is a sane business model for the sport?
Or even true?
brucewayne
Jeter doesn’t have the team! Only 10 % ! Do you ever read about any of these facts before you start this idiocy?
Caseys Partner
The next crop of Marlins young talent they develop will be shipped out the same way. It’s the plan. That plan will never change.
emac22
Don’t cry. That’s how baseball works in small markets unless you prefer to have an OK team most years and never win the world series.
Marlin fans are spoiled and the fact that they have the nerve to complain is nauseating.
emac22
If they had saved less on the other trades to get more prospects they would have had to trade more good players to match income with expenses. Would they be better off with more prospects and fewer stars? That option is still there. You could probably even still get more Yankee prospects since I’m sure they’d want Yelich too.
Fans should be happy. The transitional owner is gone, the budget is balanced and new owners are building a sustainable long term team in a really nice park. The team hasn’t drawn or won since Stanton has been there so why the nostalgia for the worst part of Florida Marlins history as though it was an accomplishment?
Caseys Partner
A new TV contract is on the way. All that money will get divided up 30 ways too and the next group of young talent will be shipped out just like all the other groups of young prime-time talent the Marlins have produced.
emac22
Why are you so devastated with the concept of a team spending money after it makes money instead of before?
Why should anyone preserve a rooster that is losing money and is last in the league in attendance?
BlueSkyLA
These days I live for autocorrect errors. So much more entertaining than a lot of what is said on purpose.
bosox90
HA! I didn’t even read that as autocorrect, I just thought it was a really strange analogy.
chitownsox11
Basically what it comes down to is the mlb needs to have a salary cap and floor. No other leagues have MVPs traded in their primes. The system is set up for big market high payroll teams to succeed.
Look as basketball with Russell Westbrook or the NHL with Sidney Crosby. Both are smaller market teams with huge stars. They aren’t getting traded any time soon.
I really enjoy baseball, but the haves and have nots is extreme. Teams simply buy their way into contention.
When your a fan of a small market team in baseball you have to suffer through 3-5 of continuous loosing hoping that a two or three year window opens up for contention and then your roster gets too expensive.
The mlb system is broke.
When was the last time the Yankees had a loosing season?
jimmyz
Yankees had 4 consecutive losing seasons from 89-92. They have had 10 losing seasons since 1926.
chitownsox11
You realize that is almost 30 years ago right? And only 10 loosing seasons in almost 100 years?
You are just helping me make the argument.
No other sport can you buy your way into contention like the MLB period.
It’s bad for the game and it’s just getting worse.
Where is the entertainment value in being a padres, Rays, white sox, marlins, etc fan? Having to constantly suffering through bad baseball for the hopes on contending. Simply because of the economics of the game. Shouldn’t happen.
Polish Hammer
You’re loosing me….
ChiSoxCity
Couldn’t have said it better myself. Most fans are to brainwashed to see how screwed up the economic system in the MLB is. You can thank George Steinbrenner for that. He pretty much squashed any consideration of a salary cap by paying off small market owners with revenue sharing to keep them quiet.
phantomofdb
chitownsox11, your white sox have won as many championships as the Yankees have since 2000. That’s almost 20 years at this point. And you’ve won more than the free-spending Dodgers. And the argument that no other sport can buy their way into contention is unbelievably off base, because salary caps are very easy to manipulate. Someone like Tom Brady or Lebron James is getting a ton of money from endorsements, so they can take below market contracts in order to free up cap money for the team to… you guessed it, BUY more players at an advantage that non-endorsement level players don’t have. Who’s won it all most recently? The White Sox, the Bulls, or the Bears?
chitownsox11
Your comments are so far off base it’s unreal. First off to compare the white sox to the Yankees over the last 20 years is ridiculous.
Also, if you do not think there is more entertainment value for fans of organization that was consistently competitive compared to organizations continually rebuilding you are wrong.
I guarantee Yankees fans had a lot more fun watching their team this year than I did watching the white sox. Doesn’t matter if they won the World Series Yankees baseball was a good product white sox was not.
The economic system in the mlb is broken.
Also, did you really try to say players in other sports only get endorsements? Players in the MLB get endorsements too, so that argument is terrible.
phantomofdb
I never said MLB players don’t get endorsements. I said huge endorsement deals negate the purpose of a salary cap, because they’re FAR too easy to manipulate. You’re actually proving my point, idiot. If MLB put a salary cap, the same thing would happen. These guys, like you said, get endorsement deals, so to build super teams they’d be willing to take a hit on their salary to get the best players around them since they will make endorsement deals off of it. The continual success of the patriots and steelers, cavs and warriors, penguins and blackhawks, ALL negate your ridiculous point that a salary cap actually serves any purpose whatsoever when it comes to winning the whole thing. Your logical leap from that to saying I said MLB players don’t get endorsements explains a ton about your lack of critical thinking.
*You* are actually implying that MLB is the only sport with playoff droughts. That’s also ridiculous. Your white sox currently have an unfortunate 9 year playoff drought. 3 MLB teams have longer droughts. If you actually pay attention to the other leagues though… 5 NFL teams have droughts of 9 or more years, There are only 2 NBA teams that have droughts that long, BUT, half the teams make the playoffs so it’s not really apples to apples. If you look at making it to the round of 8 (so its more comparable with MLB), there are 6 NBA teams that haven’t made it to the final 8 in 9 or more years.
Your argument holds absolutely no water whatsoever. Salary caps don’t work nearly as well as you seem to think.
chitownsox11
The patriots, steelers, penguins? Blackhawks win because of good drafting, not because they outspend other teams.
Also, if the salary cap has no purpose why does every other league have it.
No one on any of the teams you mentioned except tom Brady is taking a discount because endorsements.
Kane and toews on the Hawks are the highest paid players in the NHL.
The the warriors became a super team from drafting not taking pay cuts.
Patriots and steelers win because again they draft better than most organizations and they have great QB not because of a financial advantage.
How can you argue that the Yankees dodgers and Red Sox do not start with an advantage every year simply because of financials?
If there was no cap in the NBA think the lakers would have bottomed out like they have after
Kobe.
You are clearly a fan of a big market mlb team.
phantomofdb
Funny what you find “clear” because you couldn’t be more wrong. I’m a twins fan. So you’re the big market in our division. I just can actually fully admit that the league has far more parity than the other sports. I’m a twins fan first, parity fan second and MLB hs been VERY entertaining to me the last few years, even 2016 when the twins were the worst team in the league, by record. But the other leagues, I really can’t say that. Particularly the NBA. The AFC is also terrible for parity. NHL is not doing great with it right now either… but I’m a Penguins fan so I can’t complain on that one. (I live in Virginia in an area with no sports teams, so my “big 4” sports teams are all over the map)
chitownsox11
I am still waiting for you to name any team/teams that start with the financial advantage the dodgers and Yankees have?
A lack of parity in certain situations can be because of many factors, but they are not financial factors. Think the penguins still have Malkin and Crosby without a cap and max limit on contract terms? I think not.
And if your a twins fan look no further than the recent dominance of the tigers in the central. Think all of a sudden they just became better baseball decision makers? Nope, just started out spending the division each year.
Baseball needs a cap and a floor. The floor is just as important as the cap.
BlueSkyLA
A spending floor would be important if revenue was shared more equally than it is today. It’s arguable that no cap would be required if revenue was better balanced and teams were required to spend a minimum percentage of their revenue. Unfortunately it won’t happen. Too much history and inertia behind the current system of have and have-not franchises.
phantomofdb
The Dodgers haven’t won a world series in 30 years now. Like I said above, that’s sort of the definition of Perfect Parity. So they can spend all they want and have a better w-l record than the average team most years, but they still aren’t winning the world series, which is the ultimate goal. The Twins, White Sox, Royals, Astros, Giants, Marlins, Blue Jays, Cardinals, Angels, have all won the world series more recently than the Dodgers.
And your example of the Tigers is exactly the proof that baseball has parity. Just a couple years ago the Tigers were on top of the central with absolute dominance. Now they’re next year’s first overall pick. You can spend like crazy and open up a window to win, but then once it closes you’re obviously potentially just as bad as everyone else, using your Tigers example.
phantomofdb
So I guess more directly answering your question, you aren’t going to hear me say there are teams with financial advantage over the Yankees and dodgers. My answer is that you’re just asking the wrong questions.
Meaning it doesn’t actually matter that they have a financial advantage because they’re not winning the championships. Hell, the pitiful franchise this thread is about has won the World Series TWICE since the dodgers have won it.
BlueSkyLA
Not so fast. First (and FWIW), 29 years. The Dodgers also went though a long period where they were certainly not a big-spending team. Remember the bankruptcy? Fans around here haven’t forgotten. Anyway, all you have really done here is shown that outliers are not proof of anything beyond randomness being a real thing. If spending on payroll didn’t matter to competitiveness, then the teams with the resources would not spend it on payroll.
chitownsox11
Perfectly said. If high payrolls didn’t matter teams wouldn’t do it. Also spending gets you to the playoffs.
The playoffs in the mlb are a crap shoot. But spending does matter. And what the Yankees and dodgers do is bad for baseball period.
Also, yes winning a championship is the ultimate goal, but sports are entertainment, and watching a AAAA team year after year hoping to contend one day is not entertaining.
Winning and being competitive year after year matters. Only one team can win a World Series a year.
phantomofdb
I just don’t see how you’re drawing that conclusion blue sky. If it’s all just randomness then why are we 3 years and counting on the same NBA teams in the finals (and big free agents going to those teams like Durant). And why are the patriots and Steelers always on top? In fact, add the ravens and broncos, and a couple years of colts… which of the other 11 AFC team has mattered in 20 years? Add bills and you gotta to back 25 years. Nobody. Dolphins, browns, bengals, jaguars, all those teams have been worthless for ages.
What a salary cap and floor actually does is make it so teams can’t be in positions like the twins are right now where they’re actually competitive AND have no money on the books going forward so they can actually make a play at someone like Darvish. If you throttle everyone into the same earning potential bracket and limit how much is there… all else equal guess where those guys are going? The teams that’s are already good. Rich get richer, hence dynasties like the patriots, and no end in sight. I genuinely don’t see how anyone can look at mlb’s recent parity and compare it to what the nfl (and DEFINITELY not the NBA) and think it’s mlb that needs to be fixed.
chitownsox11
You must not follow the NBA because Durant was only able to go to the warriors because of a huge spike in the salary cap.
You exaples from other sports are useless. Those nfl franschises don’t outspend the competition, they are just run better.
Yankees have over two times the payroll of the Rays. That isn’t possible in other sports.
Your arguments are so pointsless.
The Yankees and dodgers have an advantage that no other team in the big four professional leagues enjoy.
They consistently have over double the payroll of division rivals.
Also, with mlb salaries skyrocketing in the last 15 years no team in the bottom third in payroll has won the World Series.
BlueSkyLA
I am not comparing baseball to any other sport. Beyond that I can’t follow what you are arguing. If the data was compiled I suspect we’d find a strong correlation between payroll and winning percentage over time. Not a perfect correlation of course but then what I am arguing is outliers are not proof of anything, because they are outliers. The proof is in the fat part of the data. Someone with the statistical skills should work out this exercise. I’d be very interested in the results.
chitownsox11
Blue sky thank you for rationally thinking. What the dodgers, Red Sox, and yankees have done the last 5-10 with huge payrolls is bad for the game.
The economics of baseball make it too hard for small markets to compete. Many times they cannot afford to keep their homegrown stars ( Stanton) or do not have enough payroll left over to support a roster with a big contract ( Mauer, Votto).
I love baseball, but something needs to be done to shorten the gap between haves and have nots, otherwise with the current trajectory I will probably stop watching.
The luxury tax was a step in the right direction as was the bonus pool limit, but is still not enough.
BlueSkyLA
Yes, even as a fan of one of the richest teams in baseball I can readily see the inequities baked into the game’s finance system. I’m sure this must be a matter of regular discussion between the 30 owners, and it isn’t too difficult to imagine how these discussions go because we’ve seen some of the results. The current structure of the luxury tax might be influencing spending behavior more than we yet know. On the other side of the equation though it doesn’t make a lot of sense for the larger-market teams to be sending the smaller-market teams a bunch of money that they simply distribute to their investors as profits and continue to deny their fans competitive teams. MLB needs to think this problem through more comprehensively than it seems they’ve done to date.
Caseys Partner
Gangsters only care about profit. MLB profits have gone through the roof and into outer space over the past fifteen years.
The MLB Crime Families don’t see a broken system, they see PROFIT.
phantomofdb
My points are vey clear and rational, the two of you saying You can’t follow what I’m arguing are “you” problems. Arguing that baseball has a problem between have and have-nots more than a sport that has had the exact same finals 3 years running is hilarious.
My point is clear. Salary caps don’t work. Baseball parity (measured by championships and even things like conference championship appearances) is stronger than the sports with salary caps because caps are too easily influenced by players going to the already good teams or taking a dip in salary to allow more players in the cap. It’s really not that hard to follow. Giving a “yeah but money!” Argument back, when competitive fairness is the end goal is what is pointless. There’s not a single MLB that should feel like there’s no hope of seeing a championship in their lifetime. Half the NBA and NFL will never see one as the leagues currently are.
So again, mlb isn’t the league that needs competitive restructuring. The leagues with dynasties are. It’s a simple concept.
chitownsox11
You are hopeless. How did the cavs ( small market) and warriors get there? Smart basketball moves, not buying players.
And again you act like championships are the only thing that matters.
Playoff appearances matter.
Fielding a product worth paying for matters. Sports are entertainment.
The other leagues are on a level field more or less financially. Any team success or lack their of is on them.
The patriots, warriors, Blackhawks, steelers, etc do not win because of a huge financial advantage. They win because of smart moves.
And you keep saying huge parity in baseball look at the cardinals Giants and Red Sox. They have dominated World Series appreances in the last 10 years.
And once again no team with the marlins payrolls in the last 10 years has any chance of ever winning a World Series.
Wainofan
Cardinals haven’t had 4 consecutive losing seasons since 1900-1910. They’ve never been top spenders and have often been mocked for their lack of spending on free agents and lack of big moves, most years they’ve been recipients of competitive balance due to market size, yet they’ve never endured a fire sale or tanked. Point is, it’s possible to succeed and win without the largest payroll and certainly without handing out the largest contracts to acquire such players. Look at fate of angels vs cardinals after they lost their best player because Angels offered a rediculous contract. Cards made playoffs the next 4 years, won division four years in a row, NLCS three years in a row, and World Series once. Point of all this is to say it is not so simple as spending money and giving massive contracts = winning. It’s not new owners fault the marlins had to fire sale. It’s the previous owners fault for the rediculous contract given to Stanton, and the sudden death of their ace pitcher. Any other ownership would have had to do same thing with payroll in order to reset team and get payroll to a manageable level.
chitownsox11
Who is ever usually spending more money than the cards in the division? The Cubs sometimes but that is it.
They are always upper middle in terms of payroll. Don’t act like you are the pirates or reds. Big difference there.
Not saying the cards aren’t run great too, but they use financials to their advantage as well.
Wainofan
Almost never been in top ten in spending, with couple outlier years in their. Typically rank 10-15 in payroll. That’s statiscally the middle third. Their payroll over last 20 years has them ranked from 8th to 13th. That’s consistency. Never have to fire Sale or tank.
chitownsox11
Where do they rank in terms of payroll throughout the division first or second each season.
You act they there are in the same division as the Yankees dodgers tigers etc.
They have the pirates reds and Brewers who all because of market size use the same model.
The cards are well run, but don’t act like financials don’t play a major part in that.
Wainofan
Agreed, but my major point is their spending has been smart and consistent, they have yet to get stuck with albatross type contracts then having to do fire Sale or tank. I appreciate the consistency and hope of winning year after year, always competing and always going for it every year.
chitownsox11
I agree that the cardinals do it the right way. I am very envious of their drafting and financial commitment to their team.
Being a white sox and marlins fan is tough. Both teams don’t spend usually always in bottom third in payroll.
Though I think if the cards sign JT Martinez or hosmer I think they might get their first albatross contract.
They would be better off trading for machado or Donaldson or even Jose abreu in my opinion.
Good luck to the cardinals in the upcoming season. I’m sure they will be better when my sox or marlins!
mlb fan
@chitown….”No other leagues have MVPs traded in their primes”……players such as Kareem Abul Jabbbar, Kobe Bryant, Bill Russell, Wayne Gretsky, Chris Paul, Kevin Garnett, Robert Parish, Wilt Chamberlain, Julius Erving, Pau Gasol, Randy Moss, Kevin Mchale,were ALL TRADED in their PRIME and MOST ALL of these guys are in the HALL OF FAME or soon will be……….
kahnkobra
where was Kobe traded to in his prime?. I could have sworn he only played for 1 franchise
Kslaw
You are correct. He was drafted by the wolves and them immediately traded to the Lakers. Would hardly call 18 being in their prime.
Polish Hammer
Drafted by the Hornets too…
Cubguy13
The only thing Kobe came close to changing in his prime was going from number 8-24
brucewayne
Frank Robinson ! Won MVPS In each league. Was traded in his prime years!
terry g
MLB will probably never have a salary cap because the union will never allow that to happen. It’s not just the owners of big market teams that don’t want a cap. It’s the players ,too.
Most people knew that the Marlins were going to have to rebuild. That’s not a surprise to people. What I think is disappointing fans is how little talent is coming back in these trades. The Marlin’s could have played hardball until they got better offers but they tipped their hand that they had to trade certain people and had to trade them now.
Jean Matrac
The Marlins would have gotten more for Stanton if he had approved one of the early trade proposals. They felt they needed to trade Stanton, so they took the one offer they had that Stanton would approve. They didn’t have much choice. I agree the return for Ozuna seemed a bit light, but maybe the Marlins really like the guys they got.
kbarr888
You don’t think that it’s rather strange that…… 1 week after the Marlins ship Stanton off to NY…….(within 36 hrs of him taking “weeks” to reject the other two offers, coincidentally)…..The Dodgers dump the players that would have facilitated their ability to trade for Stanton? (where he wanted to go all along)
You don’t think that the Marlins could have waited a week……and probably received prospects that had more potential than what they got?
You don’t think that there’s anything odd about a former Yankee, and his newest FO acquisition (also a former yankee)…..acting extremely quick on a deal to send the MVP to their former team….while other teams were obviously still working on deals?
Where there’s smoke…..there’s fire.
sully51
Not strange at all, considering the Dodgers dumped payroll to get under luxury tax, not to acquire a huge contract.
Caseys Partner
You’re arguing a member of one of the Five Families in NYC should have sold the strip club to one of those families but chose to sell it to a different family who he was previously a member of.
emac22
This is how people hurt themselves simply by thinking they understand how to think something through when they don’t. How can you advance an argument like that when, if someone used it against something you believed, you would think they were nuts?
emac22
I’m not so sure. The SF offer basically cost the Marlins 30 million dollars more than NY and the additional prospect value in that deal doesn’t seem like 30 mil to me.
Cat Mando
“MLB will probably never have a salary cap ”
May as well remove “probably”. @ things the MLBPA will never approve…a hard cap and non-guaranteed contracts.
retire21
Salary cap will not happen because far too few owners/teams are hurting. Period. MLBPA liking/not liking a cap is immaterial. Owners could shove it down their throats if they were so inclined.
Cat Mando
I’m guessing you don’t remember 1994.
retire21
What percentage of owners at that time wanted a cap?
Cat Mando
“What percentage of owners at that time wanted a cap?”
Does not matter…the MLBPA will never approve a hard cap. You can believe all you want that “Owners could shove it down their throats if they were so inclined.” but it won’t happen.
Jean Matrac
The owners tried very hard to get a salary cap. At the time just about every owner was in favor of one except George Steinbrenner. But that was a total deal breaker for the players. They were never going to agree to any CBA with a salary cap. The CBT was the compromise. I agree that the current system favors the big market clubs, but muddying the waters are the small market teams pocketing their revenue shares, and not investing them into the team. But you’re never going to get a salary cap. It’s a flawed system, but when teams like the Royals and Twins can win a title every team has a shot, even if it’s a diminished one.
phantomofdb
This point continually comes up on this site and I never understand the logic. The last 3 years, MLB has had a 30 year drought broken, a 108 year drought broken, and a first time World Series winner. And the runners up in those series would have been breaking a 29 year drought, a 68 year drought, and a 29 year drought. Perfect league parity being 30 years, so many of those teams are right in there. And one of those teams is the free spending dodgers. Meanwhile, you cite NBA as a model that mlb needs to follow and the last three years have been warriors cavs, warriors cavs, warriors cavs. NHL actually historically has pretty decent parity but recent history has a whole lot of penguins and blackhawks championships.
MLB is doing just fine without a salary cap. Parity is incredibly strong right now. Really even those 3 giant championships you can argue were parity because of how bad they were in odd years, and the fact that they weren’t the best regular season teams anyway.
But either way, I’m a fan of a “small market team” and I can at least see a potential of a championship in my teams future. Can’t say the same for nba or nfl… I stopped watching those leagues because of a lack of parity
Caseys Partner
Basically communities have to rise up and take control of their teams. As long as Organized Crime owns MLB then these ripoffs will continue. All the problems that MLB has are directly spawned by the 30 Crime Families.
The FBI needs to stop deploying listening devices in the residences of strip club owners and put them inside the mansions, planes and yachts of these 30 Crime Families.
emac22
ahh, you’re a nutjob. Now I get it.
Cat Mando
If anyone on here would know about crime it would be you.
bosox90
So what if Stanton, yes, Stanton, accepted a trade to the Giants and the Marlins got a nice haul? How would that fit into your narrative that Jeter is in the Yankees pocket?
The Marlins have been poorly run for a while. THAT is why they are a feeder team to the rest of the league. You really think throwing big money at Arrieta and Darvish would be a good idea? Sorry that Jeter wasn’t so short sighted, and realized that steering into the skid would be an unsustainable path. Ask the Angels how that path works out. Or hey maybe even look at the year Miami won the offseason with Jose Reyes and Mark Buehrle! Even better… your Philadelphia Phillies, holding on far longer than they should have! Once their bubble bursts, they have no farm to show for it, and you get an awful, unwatchable product on the field with no hope for the future.
Yes, this sucks for the Marlins now. They are trying to do things the right way. Build a sustainable system that doesn’t need to go all out for a short window to suffer extreme misery out of their control. This way they control their suffering, calculate it in a way that can make them a consistent threat in the future.
Caseys Partner
My narrative has nothing to do with the Yankees.
The Giants are a big market team with a full ballpark and in need of help, MLB Crime Families would be in favor of Stanton going there.
The Angels have never thrown money at Darvish/Arrieta pitchers. The Angels refusal to sign Greinke after trading for him was a mistake that cost them.
The Phillies farm produced the lowest WAR in MLB over a decade which lead the Phillies to disaster. The Phillies had no lineup and you can’t buy eight young prime-time position starters off the free agency market no matter how much you’re willing to spend.
The Marlins had the young lineup, all they had to do was buy pitching which was and usually is available.
brucewayne
Dude! You need to tell your therapists to up your meds
brucewayne
I was talking to Casey’s Partner !
emac22
What’s your point?
Are you going to be a sad sack until the baseball owners decide communism is the best path?
The marlins had an owner that invested in something he couldn’t afford to keep in order to help him sell his business. Someone purchased the business and cleaned up the mess.
Acting like you lost a profitable world series team that was worth losing 100 mil a year to keep together isn’t based in reality.
anoff
I feel bad for Manfred. I get having an interview where you get asked the tough questions, but Le Batard was ridiculous, just constantly badgering him and being unreasonable about what he expected Manfred to say. I get that he’s angry, but it was unprofessional and counterproductive. It’s frustrating that Manfred danced a bit on semantics in his answers – he clearly knew that they planned on trimming payroll, though hid behind the answer of not knowing the specifics on how they were going to do it.
That said, while i’m sure frustrating for Marlin fans, Manfred had a point – this is a new ownership group with an actual long term plan. The beggining might feel like the crappy experiences of the past, but it might plausibly be different this time. I’m a big Padres fan, they went through their own murky ownership period, and there was a lot of fans skeptical about the rebuild, thinking it was just another fire sale like in the ’90s. It took a lot of hard work by ownership to engender themselves to the fans, but it’s by and large worked. They turned a first class facility in Petco Park into a first class baseball experience, so even with the on field struggles, attendance has been solid and given room for the full rebuild to take place. The team might not be winning much on the field (in SD at least, the minor league teams almost all made the minor league playoffs), but fans are generally on board with what’s happening and believe that there is a plan that is working.
mlb fan
@anoff….that was the most unfair, biased interview that I have seen in a long, long time.. Dan Lebetard kept interrupting and told the comissioner HOW to answer questions and within 2 minutes had called the commish a liar, because he did not agree with the answers…..Just the usual partisan trash that Espn has become and it is almost like they did not just watch the 2 last world series champions use the same method the Marlins plan to use…..
22222pete
Everyone has a long term plan. But short and medium plans are important as well. Why agree to the sale to an ownership group that cant afford the sale price and has to have such a devastating short term plan. Jeter is included obviously to provide protection of the majority owner and Manfred from criticism, but its not working. I suspect the long term plan is to poison fans against the franchise so they can move. That is working
mlb fan
@22222….do you watch a lot of baseball? did you happen to notice that the last 2 World Series winners, the Cubs and Astros also stripped their team down to minimum salary to execute a full rebuild?
anoff
There was no potential owner that could maintain the trajectory the Marlins were on, both in the sense that no one stepped forward with that sort of money, and the fact that the Marlins were fundamentally unsound financially (ie, the team was being run at a loss). The Marlins have terrible attendance and a lackluster TV contract; even after revenue sharing, they just can’t reasonably support a payroll above the $80-90mil the new ownership is currently targeting (and to be honest, i’m surprised that target isn’t closer to $60-70mil, considering just how bad attendance is).
Caseys Partner
I used to feel so bad for John Gotti standing there in front of the courthouse in his five thousand dollar suit telling the media that he was a blue collar plumbing parts salesman being harassed by the Federal government.
brucewayne
Now I know I can’t stand you
mooshimanx
Whenever you think your team has it bad just remember the Padres have 49 years in the league and one World Series individual game win.
CursedRangers
And then there are the Rangers. Zero WS
bjtheduck
Or my Brewers, still celebrating a World Series loss from 1982.
22222pete
LOL. Ok Manfred. Boy, do they think we are dumb. Some are obviously, but they don’t mind who sees through the BS so long as reporters report their fiction
Caseys Partner
There is no news that more FAKE than MLB “news”.
Jose Canseco has authored two books. On his book tours how many podcasts with Buster Olney, Jonah Keri did Canseco do? How many times has Canseco been a panelist on ESPN Baseball Tonight? FOX?
How about Lenny Dykstra? “Nails” is a huger seller too and all without any help whatsoever from the in-the-tank MLB media.
YouTube search: Lenny Dykstra
So what about those umpires and Lenny Dykstra? Ken and Buster have never seemed to be interested. Same with the “nerds”‘ at FanGraphs.
adamontheshore
Forgive me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t there a lot of news when Stanton signed that pointed out how backloaded the contract was and how ownership knew they would sell and not have to front the bill? Not sure if any of those reports were accurate, but it’s not a stretch. I get the anger, but it should, mostly at least, be focused on the previous owners.
kbarr888
His contract was only back-loaded for the first few years. That was Loria’s ploy……told everyone that he was going to “Build A Winner” with the money that he saved…..LMAO. He’s a thief, at best.
Stanton’s current contract is actually fairly even-keeled. Similar payouts for the next 10 years, with a slight increase in the middle.
emac22
It’s the same contract and the whole back loaded issue you mention is the remaining portion of the deal. Not only did the team lose a lot of money last year but Stanton’s deal cost 10 mil more this year and Ozuna was about to get incredibly expensive.
This was an expensive team for the market that needed a few really good players added to be competitive and that was going to see two outfielder increase in cost by a total of 20 mil.
That means you’re losing money and just the pay increase to keep 2 outfielders on the team is going to be 20 mil.
A few good players costs at least 20 mil
BTW you have the 20 other guys on the roster getting raises every year.
In two years you might be spending 100 mil a year more to have kept that team together while adding the few good players needed to compete. I’d love to hear math disputing that.
And the big cost for Stanton is the 130 mil he is guaranteed for his age 35, 36, 37 and 38 seasons.+Not only would you have paid 25 mil for this year but you probably would have had to pay an additional 20-30 mil next off season to trade him with that kind of albatross one year closer.
Caseys Partner
Yeah, that’s what the previous owner is for, to shoulder the blame while the new guy does the same thing and then he sells and he shoulders the blame while the new guy continues the criminal enterprise.
mlb fan
You have to love how the biased, attack MSM lauds the rebuilds of the Cubs and Astros that led to the last 2 World Series winners, and then lambasts the rebuild of the Marlins who likely will use the same methods as the Cubs and Astros to rebuild……What baseball fan seriously did not know the new owners would do a FULL REBUILD, no matter whom they happened to be?….
Sky14
Are they doing a full rebuild? If so, they better trade Yelich and Realmuto. The difference is, the Cubs and the Astros made moves in attempt to acquire assets, while the Marlins objectives seem tied to payroll. The Marlins could’ve eaten more of the contracts or have taken back toxic contracts to increase their returns on Stanton and Gordon.
jimmertee
Sky14, absolutely correct. It is about money first, quality of baseball second.
Jean Matrac
Le Batard is a moron. The concept that he, and guys like Bill Plashke, are espousing is that MLB should not allow anyone to buy a team that they can’t afford to run. But MLB already does that. All new owner financing has to work and be approved.
Basically these journalists are saying that Jeter, or any new owner, has to retain bad contracts whether it makes sense for the team or not. What is a new owner supposed to do when the inherited payroll does not fit with the team’s revenues?
Loria ran the Marlins irresponsibly and the Jeter group is trying to bring fiscal sanity to the team. Yes, they’re using a somewhat sledgehammer approach, but like all things MLB, trades, draft picks, etc., what the Jeter group is doing can only be judged several years from now.
Caseys Partner
So all these guys being shipped out had bad contracts? Ozuna is under his seven years of slave control. So are Realmuto and Yelich.
The Marlins didn’t even have a real payroll yet. The freaking Royals had a payroll that dwarfed the Marlins. The Reds are in the smallest media market in MLB and they have Joey Votto’s contract and Homer Bailey’s contract.
emac22
Yelich is making twice what he was last year. (3.5m to 7Mil) Ozuna was probably going up from 3.5 to 9 or more. Stanton was going up 10 from 15 to 25. Realmoto probably increases even more since he’s going to arbitration.
The backloads were all kicking in and this team was about to go from underpriced to overpriced really fast. That is simply how backloads work. I don’t get how fans didn’t know this when there was so much coverage of those deals. Did people think that was fake news?
brucewayne
That doesn’t make them good contracts for the Reds though!
jleve618
Florida will never support a baseball team, move the two to montreal and vegas and get it over with.
Polish Hammer
But all those Cubans in Miami love baseball, let’s give them a team and a beautiful stadium that costs a fortune….
Yeah they love baseball, sitting there listening to the game on the radio, not buying tickets and going to the game. I also think they ought to move the team, they built and blew up two WS teams and then just did it again and I find it a disgrace.
Cat Mando
Vegas will never supports a baseball team either, nor will MLB approve a team for there any time soon.
brucewayne
They said that about an NFL team too !
Cat Mando
Manfred once mentioned LV and then later ignored them….
“Let me go back to a conversation we’ve had already. I think for us to expand we need to be resolved in Tampa and Oakland in terms of their stadium situations,” said Manfred. “As much as I hope that both Oakland and Tampa will get stadiums, I think it would be difficult to convince the owners to go forward with an expansion until those situations are resolved.”
“Once they’re done, I think we have some great candidates. I know the mayor of Montreal has been very vocal about bringing baseball back to Montreal. It was not great when the Expos left. The fact of the matter was baseball was successful in Montreal for a very long time. Charlotte is a possibility. And I would like to think that Mexico City or some place in Mexico would be another possibility.”
mlbtraderumors.com/2017/12/rob-manfred-dan-lebatar…
LV would be as low attendance as any team in FL. People don’t vacation in FL to go to a ball game (except ST when they go to see their team) and they don’t go to Vegas in 115 degree heat for a baseball game. The go to FL for beaches and Vegas to gamble. Many of Those that live there are from all over (including me at one time for a decade) and already have “home teams” Many are retired, just like FL and even going to a night game, fighting LV traffic when it’s still 100+ outside is not enjoyable.
NFL may be able to support a team with only 8 home games but even that might be iffy for a transplanted team. Fans from Oakland (if they will still support the team) face either an expensive weekend flight or 9 hour drive topped off buy hundreds in room and meal costs. Having lived there (I thankfully escaped) I’m not convinced the Raiders will be all that successful in Vegas.
BlueSkyLA
Not saying that Las Vegas would be a great baseball town but if was only a matter of summertime climate and traffic lots of cities wouldn’t have teams.
Cat Mando
Not many are 105 or hotter at 8 pm. A comparable city, weather wise, would be Phoenix. 6th largest population in the US they draw 2mm a year with a population of 1.5mm +…Vegas 622,000+.
While the intense heat is only one factor it also has a lot to do, IMO, with life style and work. The largest employers are the Casino industry and a huge # of that workforce works evenings when the casinos are busiest. There are many factors but after spending a decade there they would be about where Tampa is in per game attendance.
brucewayne
What do you think about Oklahoma City as a baseball town ? Or Memphis ? Maybe Nashville?
jimmertee
Not sure any of Oklahoma City or Memphis or Nashville could support a MLB team. Too small a market?
Caseys Partner
It’s not about support, it’s about how much can the MLB Crime Families loot from the market. They would be more AAAA farm teams like the Marlins and Pirates who supply prime-time ready MLB players to the Yankees and other playoff teams while the tax payers in those markets pay for free ballparks with roller coasters and Comcast sets up a sports cableTV network there to gouge the locals with and pass on MLB’s cut.
brucewayne
Very good points Cat! You are one of the most level – headed
brucewayne
You could be right, I do know that Nashville is one of the fastest growing cities in the US! Memphis
brucewayne
and brightest people on here!
brucewayne
and Nashville both support very good Triple AAA teams.
phantomofdb
Far better places to move than Vegas. Would have to be a more eastern city than that anyway.
jimmertee
Montreal yes. Someone quickly call Jonah Keri, Tim Raines, Warren Cromartie. Let’s get this thing done!
Dookie Howser, MD
Are we just going to let the name “Project Wolverine” slide? It sounds better than “Project Purell”, but still a little ridiculous for a plan to give away all your good players for pennies on the dollar.
bernbabybern
Wolverine, slashing payroll, gutting the team.
Caseys Partner
MLB media lets everything about the 30 Crime Families slide out of site.
“Access Journalism”
Why aren’t Jose Canseco and Lenny Dykstra commentators in MLB media? Why has there never been any press about Lenny Dykstra controlling the umpires while he was a player?
Z-A 2
Marlins made some smart moves though. Reversion to the mean. Ozuna likely posts 25 HR 85 RBI and a sub .275 BA. Dee Gordon is just a speedster with a PED suspension. And Stanton’s contract is terrible for a guy that averages 124 games a year. He isn’t Mr. Durable. He can mash, no doubt, but doesn’t help if he’s on the sideline.
jimmertee
Marlins didn’t get enough elite talent for these assets. Period.
mike156
Baseball has a huge problem with the Florida market. For whatever reason, it doesn’t draw. We can all blame Jeter but the fact is that the team doesn’t draw enough,even with the young stars now so feverishly being unloaded. I don’t blame new management for stripping down…plenty of other teams, including big market ones, have. The problem is optics more than economics. What MLB should have been pressing for was not the maintenance of a high payroll short term, but a serious marketing plan. How do you engage with the community so they support you beyond digging into the taxpayer’s pockets for a stadium?
baseball365
Some good comments this morning about this topic. As a native New Yorker and Yankee fan since I was kid in the late 70’s and early 80’s and having seen it all, I recently moved to Miami and I can tell you 100% the lack of interest in baseball here is baffling. I just don’t get it, especially for a region, culturally speaking and with the demographics that on paper should be a huge baseball market.
First order are the team names, both of which are absolutely terrible from a branding perspective. The Florida Marlins (and Tampa Bay Rays) lacks appeal. Now that I’m in Miami I’m going to be looking at this closer going into next season as I’m a baseball guy and will be going to games. I really don’t understand this market.
kbarr888
As a So Fl resident for 30 years……what’s even more amazing is that “This area is full of transplants from NY, NJ, and the whole Northeast”. They’re supposed to be Baseball Fans?
WHERE ARE THEY ALL??? (Hint: Not at the Stadium…..lol)
Sure there’s a huge Latin presence in the Miami area…..but the stadium was built in the wrong place. 40 mins north of Miami is a place called Delray Beach. Lots of Land west of town. Plenty of room for a stadium to be built…..great access to the major highways……….instead of cramming it into several city blocks, in a not-so-great neighborhood. There’s a huge Fan base that lives within 45 minutes of Delray, but well over an hour from the current location. Bad planning. Bad idea.
baseball365
Nailed it. Have family in Delray Beach. It’s gorgeous. And it’s heavy on the New York transplants. It would have covered both the Broward and Dade markets, whereas, the Marlins are positioned to cover only Miami.
We also need to understand that the Latin community doesn’t even really have the Marlins on their radar. In their home countries, they all follow the Yanks, Dodgers, Phillies, and a few other teams.
The Marlins need to start over from the ground, rebrand and take the stupid Marlin away. I for one support Jeter in this process. Like I said, I applaud his quick action even if he doesn’t make friends in the process.
Caseys Partner
Miami had great crowds for the WBC.
Maybe Miami drew big for the WBC because the ticket buyers knew all the best players weren’t going to be shipped off to the Yankees before the games began?
brucewayne
No! Just shipped out to teams all over the World! Stupid comment as usual!
baseball365
What I don’t understand is why everyone is harping on Jeter, Sherman, Manfred and really anyone else they can point a finger at, but the culprits were Loria and Samson. Loria slide out the backdoor with a wheel barrel full of money, left a team laden with debt, and terrible operations. They leveraged all their assets for their own benefit, which was visible to everyone and now everyone is PO’d with Jeter. Um. No. What he is doing is less than ideal, sure, but 100% necessary. If anything, I applaud Jeter for his decisiveness and quick action to tear it down. Get this thing moving in the right direction much, much quicker. Too bad many people “choose” to not see this.
kbarr888
Because Jeter and Sherman KNEW all of that information before they purchased the Team.
They CHOSE to go through with the deal. It’s not like “it was a secret that they got stuck with”. They knew EXACTLY what they were going to do. Bet the house on that. Nobody spends $1.2 Billion without doing their research…..(if they did…..they deserve to be bankrupt…..)
Trading Stanton isn’t the issue. We all knew that day was coming, even if Loria never sold the Team.
The issue is the way it was handled. How Jeter’s former team swoops in and he accepts their offer in less than 36 hrs…..after negotiating with other teams for weeks. Smells Like Corruption…..Like An Inside Job…..
Cat Mando
Miami wasted weeks negotiating. Stanton submitted a list of the 4 teams he would accept a trade to and STL/SF were not on it. When that failed Miami lost all leverage Cubs/Astros/LAD never negotiated after that debacle. How is that an inside job?
kbarr888
Dodgers were in discussions. Jeter knew Stanton’s 1st choice, and that he’d accept there, regardless of the return. He jumped on the yankee’s offer before LA could clear space for him.
Isn’t it at all peculiar that the Dodgers made that huge trade just a week after Stanton went to the yankees???
Cat Mando
@ Kbarr…..Making a lousy offer and negotiating are 2 different things.
“While the Los Angeles-born Stanton would have preferred to go to the Dodgers, they didn’t make an offer that “intrigued” the Marlins, Joel Sherman of the New York Post tweets. Sending Stanton to the Dodgers would have required the Marlins to take on more bad contracts than they were “comfortable with,” according to Sherman, who reports that LA wanted Miami to accept one or both of Adrian Gonzalez or Scott Kazmir and absorb $30MM of Stanton’s contract. The Marlins found acquiring Starlin Castro from the Yankees much more appealing, as he’s someone they could slot in at second base or flip elsewhere.”
mlbtraderumors.com/2017/12/reactions-to-and-effect…
outinleftfield
He submitted a list of a dozen teams initially.
Cat Mando
“He submitted a list of a dozen teams initially.”
Nov. 15 “A baseball source said yesterday that he’s been told Stanton will not accept a trade to either the Red Sox or the Cardinals, another team linked early and often in trade rumors. Perhaps there’s some flexibility in that stance, but Stanton’s preference is a factor.”
businessinsider.com/giancarlo-stanton-will-reporte…
Nov 16.. “With his representatives nearby, Stanton wouldn’t say whether he had mentioned any specific teams or whether the Marlins had informed him of any potential deals.”
“We’re going to keep that internal and worry about those certain things when the time comes,” he said. “It’s not going to be a big public ordeal.”
stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinal…
Nov 27 “•Jon Morosi of MLB.com reports that Stanton has given the Marlins a list of teams to which he’d accept a trade, and the Dodgers are among those teams (all links to Twitter). Per Morosi, the Dodgers and Marlins have discussed some Stanton trade scenarios, but the Giants and Cardinals have shown more focused interest in Stanton. Some teams interested in Stanton feel the Dodgers are his top choice, which could slow negotiations as Stanton could veto any deal until knowing for certain that the Dodgers don’t plan on making a move for him. At this point, however, Stanton has not rejected any trades, according to Morosi.”
mlbtraderumors.com/2017/11/giancarlo-stanton-trade…
Dec 7 “Now told Stanton will approve : Dodgers Yankees Cubs Astros”
twitter.com/craigmish/status/938992764456275969?la…
I have not seen a source that sais 12 teams. Care to list it?
baseball365
Your perspective of this is unfortunately, terribly flawed. You’re indeed correct they KNEW all the information and what did you expect them to do once they HAD all that information?
They pretty much had three options with Stanton (and only three options). Trade him to the Dodgers or Yankees or keep him. If they kept him, along with other players the team would be operating at an extreme deficit. We’re talking about a $300mm asset and Jeter saw a limited window to off load that salary to the Yankees, which we could say was wisely timed considering there have been absolutely ZERO big money contracts handed out this winter. There were a few last year and it the number drops YOY. So maybe Jeter is a bit of genius in seeing this trend, quickly understanding his market and the direction of baseball overall. Truth is, the Marlins just can’t have a payroll that exceeds $90mm-$100mm a year and you’re not going to have 30% of that entire payroll occupied by a player that has some risk of his own with health.
kbarr888
I’m just saying that there IS blame on the part of the new owners because they Knew What They Were Buying………..and they must have had a plan to dismantle it from the get-go.
Stop blaming Loria (he was an Ass for sure…….but if you don’t like who built the house….don’t buy it…)
Caseys Partner
Loria is gone and everything Loria did was known and expected. Loria was always a scumbag. He was sued in Montreal and Loria’s criminal actions met with full approval by the other 29 Crime Families that own MLB.
rrieders
The locals have never supported the Marlins even when the team was doing well.
jd396
I don’t know how anybody anywhere could think that a team with the worst attendance and an absolutely horrific financial situation could do anything but sell off players. Could they have gotten more for Stanton? Maybe. But with the NTC and their financial woes the options were limited. I do think if they had held out longer Stanton would have caved first, if it looked like a trade wasn’t going to come together and he was going to have to lose all the time in front of 800 fans for another year.
Caseys Partner
There’s no problem with the Marlins finances. There has never been any problem with the Marlins finances. The Marlins owners have always done what was expected of them by the other 29 Crime Families.
jd396
There’s no problem with the Marlins finances. That was absolutely adorable. You just made my day.
outinleftfield
Your head was obviously used as a basketball as a child. There is no other explanation for your consistent completely moronic statements.
The Marlins had $205 million in revenue for 2017. $400 million in debt that results in debt service of $65 million in 2017, 1/3 of revenue. The 2018 MLB payroll was going to be $140 million.
So the Marlins could either not pay for anything else, no ballpark employees, no minor league players, no front office, no manager, no coaches, no scouts and player development personnel, nothing but MLB payroll OR they could cut payroll to a level that allows them to service their debt and still field a team.
Caseys Partner
The Marlins no longer have any debt. The debt was part of the $1.2 billion purchase price.
You don’t get to make up your own facts unless you’re a guest on CNN or MSNBC or writing an editorial for the New York Times or Washington Post.
brucewayne
How can this nut job CP get reported
66TheNumberOfTheBest
The answer is that most people have zero idea how economics work.
Pirate “fans” laughed and bragged about the team’s attendance and ratings dropping and now, they can’t believe the team is cutting payroll.
Mike Illitch (and a few others) turned a generation of baseball fans into welfare queens. They are entitled to the team losing money/making less money because they paid $35 for that ticket.
No one demands that Pizza Hut sell them pizza at cost, but sports teams making money are evil.
dbec72
Part of the problem is so many people coming to the state when they are older and already have a team they root for so they don’t care about the Marlins or Rays much. Also it is much more of a college football state in my opinion.
jd396
Florida is probably the biggest baseball state in the union – in terms of picking up a bat and and glove and going to a ballpark to play. Spring training is deeply rooted in Florida and is one of the big draws in the spring (I’m sure lots of ST stadiums draw more than the Marlins and the Rays). Some of the best players in the game come from schools in Florida and a ton of players live and train there in the offseason. The sport of baseball is perfectly fine in Florida.
But that just doesn’t translate to supporting the Rays and Marlins – even when they succeed. I think if there had never been either of those teams, and you founded a team in Miami without the baggage of Loria history, it might be a different story. But fans in Florida just direct their passions elsewhere, and snowbird retirees follow their hometown teams.
dbec72
What a liar. He knew the payroll could not be sustained so what options do they have.
Col. Taylor
MLB should contract down to just the Yankees Dodgers Red Sox and Cubs.
– Competitive bAlaNcE
jd396
MLB should contract all the expansion teams, and go back to the mathematical perfection of two 8-team leagues.
Caseys Partner
You can’t loot a market if there’s no team there.
That’s why the EXPANSION of MLB is being talked up again.
Marc Downs
Jeter was handed a mess of a franchise that was bleeding money. So he is blowing it up. Everyone who complains about the Stanton trade forgets that he had them over a barrel. He wasn’t going to go the two teams that offered their best prospects he basically told them that he would go to these certain teams. Once he said that they were never going to get a great haul because the other teams and Stanton had them by the balls.
Caseys Partner
Save it for the stupid. I stopped watching Fake News over fifteen years ago.
walls17
Manfred lies about the baseballs being different, and lies about this. Get this goof outta here
Caseys Partner
“Manfred and the 30 Crime Families he represents lies about the baseballs being different, and lies about this. Get these criminals outta here.”
There, fixed it for you.
stwawk
I get why people in South Florida are furious over this. They were duped in so many ways. Firstly, they were screwed with the stadium funding. Second, the clearing of the roster and giving away players to teams like the Yankees is ridiculous. It seems rather obvious the Yankees’ relationship with Jeter lead to the Marlins donation of Stanton.
I’m also pretty sure Manfred lied, and this controversy isn’t going away anytime soon. Yes, there is a cycle, but that cycle is made necessary by behemoths like the Yankees and Dodgers who have the upper hand through their near unlimited financial resources. Until there’s a hard salary cap, that’s not going to change.
Most unbiased fans of the game who aren’t Yankees’ fans surely take issue with small to mid market teams drafting and developing high quality talent just to fill out the rosters of teams that feel they are entitled to a yearly world championship.
MLB is not a growing sport. Revenue might be through the roof, but the sport is not exactly a magnet for younger fans. Until it gets its act together, the fanbase is going to continue to decline. So teams like the Yankees are doing a great disservice to the sport.
hittingnull
Marlins were near dead last in farm system, had too many holes, and had contracts weighing them down. No kidding the Marlins needed to sell. I’m surprised Marlin sport fans are really this passionate because it isn’t shown in the seats. Jeter and the rest of the ownership group is doing exactly what they should be doing. Now, 4-7 years from now if they have a great team and they sell again then this type of hatred is warranted. Until then, shut up Marlin fans.
jeffmaz
This isn’t a rebuild, it’s a salary dump. I watched Selig approved an owner for the Padres who couldn’t afford the team and used it like his piggy bank. It looks like this commissioner is doing the same to the Marlins.
Caseys Partner
Commissioners don’t approve anyone, the other 29 Crime Families do.
The Commissioner does the work of negotiating and dialoging with the Crime Families and then submits what he believes to be the best option according to their wishes and they vote on it.
jd396
Got your schtick dialed in today.
Tyler 20
youre actually a nut. tin foil hat and all
outinleftfield
Wow @jeffmaz. 0 for 2. Great job.
Moorad was given permission to buy a team after the previous owner got caught shtupping his secretary. The November 2008 the divorce courts decided how much the payroll would be the following year. No one else even made an offer to buy that team because of those conditions. Moorad stepped into a bad situation and made the best of it.
Then when he had a chance to finalize the purchase, Reinsdorf and his group of owners shot down the sale to the former agent. A guy that Reinsdorf was on record as saying he hated.
The Marlins have no choice but to cut salary. The incompetent Loria regime left them with a team that has the smallest TV contract in baseball, the least amount of corporate and luxury box sales, the smallest amount of in-park advertising revenue, no event revenue, a fan base that has been run off by lawsuits and bad teams, and no ballpark naming rights deal.
Combine that with a $140 million MLB payroll on revenues of $205 million and their choices were to lose $50 million and still not compete for a playoff spot or cut payroll. Sherman’s ownership group did the only thing they could do.
msmithwa
LeBetard showed how much of an ass he is. Personally I have zero sympathy for Fans like that especially when your team has 2WS trophies to its name. “answer the question, yes or no.” Horrible for a media guy…..a douche. Enjoy your sorry ass team. Reminds me of a time when the Padres and their new ownership traded Gary Sheffield to the Marlins followed by Fred McGriff to the Braves. One player of significance-albeit great significance was to return to San Diego.
outinleftfield
Le Betard caught Manfred in a lie. He called him on the fact that Sherman and Jeter’s group had to submit a plan that included lowering payroll to $85-90 million in order to even be considered for ownership and 29 other owners approved that plan.
Manfred may not have known which players would be traded away, but he absolutely knew that the Marlins would be cutting payroll.
Manfred tried to get around a direct question with BS. LeBetard called him on it. Manfred is a douche.
msmithwa
e was lied to because manfred didn’t feel like giving him the time of day. if everyone wants to stroke lebetard i guess that’s cool.if i was manfred, i would never i’ve him an interview again if he thinks it’s cool to be unprofessional e abuse he’s butt hurt that his team sucks. If MLBTR s ok with disparaging Manfred but censoring what I say, i guess they condone his assholish behaviors do think that it’s only Manfred who’s out of line. Miami deserves what it gets especially if LeBetard is their voice
blackleather
Isn’t this the same Commissioner that claimed the balls weren’t juiced this season?…and didn’t Justin Verlander call him a liar?…and didn’t most of us think Verlander would know better than the Commish, seeing as how Verlander pitches and the Commish, doesn’t?
stroh
As a stros fan, I can sympathize with the Marlins fans. But the big difference in the rebuilds is that the stros got rid of high priced, older players like Lance Berkman, Roy Oswalt, Carlos Lee, Brett Myers, and Billy Wagner when they started their rebuild whereas the Marlins got rid of young talent in Stanton, Ozuna and Gordon. It made sense for the stros to turn guys who were on the back side of their career to multiple prospects, but I’m not sure that getting rid of young players for a short term financial gain is a strategic decision from a winning standpoint. Very frankly, if the stros had held on to those guys for another 2-3 years they may have ended up with the same record that they had for the lean years when we fielded a minor league club at the major league level. So it made sense to make those moves. But I think the Marlins were just a few players away from being a wild card contender and not that far away from being a really good club, so it just doesn’t make as much sense to me.
Caseys Partner
The Marlins always deal away young prime-time talent, exactly what a rebuild is done to acquire.
The Marlins have always been a scam operated by the 30 MLB Crime Families to loot the Miami market and supply the contending teams MLB wants to see advance.
TNE
I think this comment section just set a new record! 200+ posts without mention of WAR!!!! Finally, a civilized debate emerges on MLBTR.
outinleftfield
Le Betard caught Manfred in a HUGE lie. All the teams knew that the Marlins had to cut payroll. That moron Loria had left them with a $140 million payroll for 2018 with revenues of just $205 million. The most you can afford to pay in MLB payroll is half of revenue and that is on a team that has a reasonable debt to revenue ratio. The Marlins have $400 million in debt.
Manfred lied straight up.
outinleftfield
MLBTR, you need to get a new commenting system. My IT manager just said that at least 4 people posting on this board are from the same IP address, just different browsers. That really undermines the legitimacy of the comments.
Email me if you would like a list of who they are. You have my email address.
brucewayne
Isn’t that an invasion of privacy? I’ll have to call my attorney tomm.
brucewayne
By the way, I only have one account ! I just don’t like the fact that someone can hack the system
Cat Mando
Bet I know one of the names.
brucewayne
I don’t have your email! Who are they? Please tell us! It’s ok! I agree