10:36pm: The D’Backs are “showing no interest in a salary dump,” USA Today’s Bob Nightengale reports (Twitter link), as the Rangers are offering only “marginal prospects” and they want Arizona to pay a portion of Greinke’s contract (perhaps in the form of Choo’s deal).
8:19pm: Texas isn’t one of the 15 teams on Greinke’s no-trade list, Nick Piecoro of the Arizona Republic reports (via Twitter). Choo can also list 10 teams per season via his own no-trade clause, though it isn’t known if the D’Backs are included.
7:41pm: The Rangers have been in discussions about the Diamondbacks about starting pitchers, with MLB.com’s T.R. Sullivan (Twitter links) reporting that Zack Greinke’s name has been included in the talks. There isn’t any sign that a trade is close to actually happening, though Sullivan says that the negotiations “are real and on-going.”
According to Jeff Wilson of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram (Twitter link), the Rangers need Shin-Soo Choo to be involved in the deal as well, in order to help balance out the Greinke’s enormous contract. Choo is owed $62MM through the 2020 season, while Greinke still has a whopping $138.5MM owed to him through the 2021 campaign.
For a Rangers team in dire need of pitching help, they would seemingly be a great fit to absorb that extra money on Greinke’s deal while also unloading an extraneous piece in Choo. The outfielder simply hasn’t lived up to expectations since signing that seven-year, $130MM with Texas in the 2013-14 offseason. Choo has been worth only 5.1 fWAR over his first four years in Texas, with most of that total coming just in 2014 (3.6 fWAR), as he has battled injuries and become a defensive liability, though his run-creation numbers are still slightly above average.
Depending on what else is involved in a potential trade, moving Greinke would essentially be something of a salary dump for the D’Backs. Even though the ace righty is coming off an excellent season (rebounding nicely from a down year in 2016), Greinke simply accounts for such a giant portion of Arizona’s payroll that the team is hard-pressed to make many other moves, given that the Snakes are again expected to spend in the $115-$120MM range next year. Greinke at least has much more trade value now than he did last winter in the wake of his tough 2016 campaign, though it would still be a tough blow for the D’Backs to lose their ace while still hoping to build on their NLDS appearance from a year ago.
Since the two teams were engaging in talks on multiple starters, it’s fair to say that Patrick Corbin might be a more reasonable trade candidate that wouldn’t involve nearly the salary machinations of a Greinke/Choo deal. Corbin is projected to earn $8.3MM in 2018, his final year of arbitration eligibility, so he’d also represent some significant payroll savings for Arizona if dealt.
Even if this trade doesn’t happen
What a winter!
Nothing good happened…
For the Red Sox
Nothing against Red Sox fans, but you seem to be anti-Yankee here, especially by these boards’ standards.
Now this would be interesting.
Now this would be interesting
You can say that again.
Now this would be interesting
you can say that again.
You’re right, that was interesting
Now this is pod racing
Hahahaha just watched that yesterday. Been on a marathon to prepare my body.
how much would have to be eaten for him to be delt? my contacts definitely under water but it is a good market for pitching
probably a lot. of mushrooms. if you’re Texas.
good one
We’ve always had a ting for Grienke. We almost got him when he went to La
Would be a disaster for the Rangers. Can’t afford another ace on his way to retirement.
Only way this doesn’t look completely ridiculous from Rangers standpoint is if Arizona takes Choo in the deal.
Nice try. At least greinke is more than serviceable. Choo only getting at bats because he’s owed so much money that would otherwise be dead.
Check the numbers
checking the numbers aaaaaanndd..Choo is still a bum.
dudeness88, aaaaaanndd the numbers say you are wrong.
Choo didn’t have a bad year. 262/357/423, with 22 HRS, 78 Rbi’s. Plus, he isn’t a bad runner still, with 12 stolen bases.
Choo produced 1.1 WAR of value for $20 MM. Pass.
Now this would be interesting
Why? Dbacks are a playoff team why trade your good players
$$$. Love Greinke, favorite current pitcher even before joining the Snakes, but he’s too expensive. Hope they don’t trade him, but could understand why if they do. We expect to fill our bullpen with petty cash and that ain’t happening.
D’backs “were” a playoff team, 2018 will probably be a different story. JDM isn’t coming back, there’s rumors that Corbin might be traded, Greinke will probably regress, and their extreme good luck avoiding injuries will probably not be repeated.
They may very well be a playoff team in 2018, but with their payroll issues, they will have a hard time addressing their roster. The team probably won’t be improved significantly. I see them not making the PS next season.
Intriguing, thus shall be
Any no trade clauses for Choo or Greinke?
Greinke is not going anywhere.
Fine. Greinke stays and the rest of the team moves to Montreal.
Why are the dbacks giving up on Greinke already? Choo has a worse contract than Jason Heyward.
The contract is underwater and they don’t want to see the end of it. Hazen didn’t sign him to it and he’s kind of handcuffed with what he can do. He’s also 34. Well then again Grienke is not the only one handcuffing then with Tomas. It’d be interesting to see what they do.
Greinke’s contract has considerable risk and the risk only materializes if he has a bad year or is injured. He was a top 5-10 pitcher in baseball last year. Zero reason to pay his salary. His risk isn’t comparable to Stanton’s 10 year deal.It’s 4 years and my guess is you can probably get another 3 good years left out of the 4.
If moved, then the return has to impact the 2018 Dbacks team. Not sure if I ever heard of a 90+ win team trade key players to rebuild that same winter not-named the Florida Marlins.
“Choo has a worse contract than Jason Heyward.”
How do you figure? Choo’s contract runs 3 more years and he’s owed $62m. Heyward’s has 6 more years and he’s owed over $134m. Just my opinion, but I would take Choo’s contract over Heyward’s easily.
I’d take Choo
over Heyward any day! Better numbers
And a third of the contract !
Decent prospects would have to go back to Arizona if they take choo.
Pure smoke…
As a Rangers fan, I️ would take this as a straight-up swap all day long. Absorb the contract of Grienke while ridding yourself of the albatross that is Choo’s contract. Essentially, I️t would only add about $7 mil to the payroll and open up a spot for Calhoun.
i say that it’s all talk and the dbacks are trying to get a team that needs a frontline starter to overpay. the only deal they should accept is mazara, kela, and profar with the rangers taking all the contract left
No way Mazara is involved in a deal for a 34 year old who’s owed 138 million over the next 4 years. This is all about the Rangers trying to take advantage of a team trying to clear salary.
I’m pretty sure they refused to include Mazara in Chris Sale talks, so I doubt he’s on the move anytime soon…
So you want two outstanding players who are under the age of 22 and a former #1 overall prospect AND the Rangers to absorb the entire contract for Grienke?
You deserve to have your posting rights revoked.
they would be taking a teams ace, their top pitcher, their game 7 starter. mazara would have to go because the dbacks need another outfielder and he renters would have to take at least 100M plus kela. than if they try to throw choo in the deal with his contract we would need profar and give them maybe a nick ahmed and or brandon drury
Mazara has been worth a total of either 0.5 or 1.6 WAR (depends where you look) over his 2 years in the league. He has a ton of potential, but he’s far from an “outstanding player” right now.
And if the best thing you can say about Profar is that he was a top prospect 5 years ago, that should tell you enough about his value…
All that said, there’s no way Texas would make that trade.
and mazara is 22 while kela and profar are 24. plus the rangers have pretty much given up on profar, hint why they tried trading him 1 for 1 to the mets for harvey
Nomar is coming off a 100 RBI season.
Profar hit nearly .600 in the World Baseball Classic a year ago. That’s something more intriguing to say.
I guess… But it doesn’t add anything to his value…
They weren’t though. Both teams wanted other pieces added
“mnasser34”
You’re significantly over-valuing Greinke. With his age and contract he has negative value. Sure he had a great season in ’17, but didn’t in ’16 and is due for regression. Projections have him as having a decent, but not great, year. No way he duplicates last season at age 34, and whomever has Greinke will be paying him $35m in his age 37 season. I wouldn’t want the albatross contract that comes with him on my team.
Arizona would get an outfielder. Problem is, it’s Choo
if he got better last year how is he “due for regression”? in 16 he was battling injuries and was pitching a lot in a hitter friendly park and not pitcher friendly dodger stadium.
Profar hit .464 over 28 at-bats in the 2017 WBC. Not .600, and nothing worth putting stock into.
Most people wouldn’t know who the majority of the Top 10 even are.
He’s due for regression, because at age 33 he just had the 3rd best season of his 14 year career. All players have ups and downs throughout their careers, You can’t assume he will repeat a stellar season, because the odds say he won’t.
You’re assuming at age 34 that he avoids injury again, and exceeds, or even repeats, 2017. BB Ref, and both Steamer, and Depth Charts per Fangraphs are projecting regression from outstanding in 2017 to simply good in 2018. With that contract simply good gives him negative value.
Negative projections following a great season mean nothing. “Ofh because you are 1 year older I predict you will be worse”. People give that way too much credence. He just bucked expectations by coming back from a 2016 season to be a top 7 starter. Yes….risky but “negative value” and he just turned in a 5 WAR season. Fans really go overboard overvaluing potential and under valuing actual production.
Well the fact that he is entering an age where most pitchers do start to decline is part of it, but, your assumptions are incorrect. He’s mainly due for regression because he out-performed the mean averages he has established over the 14 years of his career. That would be true for a younger pitcher as well who had established a large enough data base and then out-performed the mean averages.
Plus you aren’t looking at the big picture. His contract may be market value in 2018, and possibly in 2019, as well, but there’s no way he’s going to be worth $70m at age 36 and 37. So overall he has negative value. You can’t trade for the 2018 Greinke without also getting the 2020, and 2021 Greinke.
mnasser34, Oswalt and Halladay come to mind… had good 33/34 year old seasons and then add 2 runs to the ERA the next year, and then 2 more the year after that…
southbeachbully, Halladay turned in a 8.9 WAR season followed by a 0.9 and a -1.0… The success of one year doesn’t warrant protection from bad things happening.
Yup! I agree!
Don’t quit your day job
mnasser34 needs to clear the fog off his glasses lol
why’s that
Wow.
greinke isn’t getting traded. i think he dbacks are just trying to get some big starter needy team to overpay for him. i say they should accept mazara, kela, chirinos, and profar. but i don’t think the rangers will give up that much and the snakes can accept any less than that.
I say you are correct, sir
You’re absolutely right, the Diamondbacks SHOULD accept Mazara, Kela, Chirinos, and Profar because it’s a massive overpay for the salary dump. You would be getting as close as a replacement as you’re going to get for JD Martinez, as well as Ianetta’s replacement, a guy that would be your 2nd best reliever, and a versatile middle infielder. That’s 13 years of control of young guys that cost pocket change.
If you want those guys without taking Choo, you’re going to have to include Goldschmidt.
profar is pretty much expendable because he hasn’t really produced in the majors and they tried to trade him for matt harvey who is getting worse. so you’re pretty much getting two players with good upside and an average catcher
You are prob one of the same guys who thought the Marlins were gonna get a haul of prospects for Stanton
and them not eating none of the contract either!
the only reason they didn’t was because of his no trade clause
Now this would be interesting
I appreciate that the article refers to him as “The Greinke”.
Zach Greinke and Yasmany Tomas straight up for Shin-Soo Choo and Jurickson Profar! What? I can dream.
All of this is hype a rumor. No credit at all. So until a deal is actually done then all of this is just hype a lie.
You could say that about 85% of the stuff reported during the WM. try to enjoy it.
Do you know where you are? This is a rumor site. We like tidbits like this whether they go no where or not. If the tidbit is said not true by another baseball writer they will post that too. Also why did you read it in the first place?
Also why so salty? Bad day at work?
Fear The Greinke!
The deal is real and Rangers win this one! Woo hoo!
Greinke is owed 138 million dollars over the next 4 years accounting for his age 34-37 seasons. I’m wondering how much the D’backs would have to eat in a deal to move him. I think he could be moved for a light return if the D’backs payed around half of his remaining contract.
lol, a 6.3 WAR dump. So at 7 Million per WAR according to fangraphs he is still worth what he is being paid and then some but you think the diamondbacks should eat tens of millions of dollars just to get a light return and lose an Ace…hmmm.
5.1 fWAR last season, so it depends on your metric. But regardless, it’s not the now that the Diamondbacks are worried about, it’s the back end of the contract. Age curves aren’t pretty for guys in Greinke’s bracket.
Still worth the cost of contract. I dont see the rangers getting greinke if they think the diamondbacks are going to eat that much money.
I think you’re confusing “being worth what you were paid last year” and “worth the contract”. If the DBacks are interested in trading Greinke, they will have to eat a sizable portion of his contract, and in the Rangers’ case, that means taking Choo in the deal.
Sorry, but a pitcher whose making an average 34.5 million per year from age 34-37 ain’t getting a strong return of players unless the D’backs eat significant salary. Plus, Greinke’s numbers declined, although still respectable, in the 2nd half last season.
He’s going to the Marlins for Yelich
DBacks should try to get Keone Kela involved in the deal as well. He’s got back end bullpen potential and the Rangers don’t seem to be too fond of him.
They’re actually very fond of him
Hell, make it Greinke and Corbin.
Now this would be interesting.
First they tried to get Harvey+ for just Profar, now they’re trying to get Greinke for free. Rangers are really going for it!
The way Greinke’s contract is structured is actually $21M per year, so the D’backs wouldn’t save any salary if Choo is included in the trade, until 2021. Greinke also gets $3M in bonus money each year, i.e. $24M, so the D’backs would save only $3-4M per year ($10-11M is deferred each year (total = $62.5M) to 2022-2026. So, the D’backs aren’t actually saving anything on total annual payroll by trading an ace for a bad contract. So why do it?
With the contract set up that way I wouldn’t mind the Braves making a move for Greinke they gotta take back Kemp and pay the bonus money owed
Don’t trade him to the Rangers because I am Mariners fan and switching him to a hitter friendly league at his age would doom him. Unless you got the bullpen to get him out of some jams.
Any GM dumb enough to give up assets AND take on that contract will be looking for a new job in no time. Greinke’s good, but not 35 million a year good. 22 million per year maybe. Who gave him that ridiculous contract? Was that Dave Stewart?
Greinke has a bWAR of 25.8 last 5 seasons. top 8 in Cy Young in 4 of last 5 seasons. I’m not sure how many pitchers out there can say they’ve accomplished that, but it’s certainly not much. he’s and ace, and certainly worth his pay.
Those are great stats for the past 5 years, but TEX would be paying for the NEXT four years….on the wrong side of 30. No thanks at $35m AAV.
@dudeness88
Well, he did earn his pay last season, he might, or might not, earn it next season, not sure it’s smart to count on him too much in 2019, but it’s highly doubtful he earns his pay, $70m, for his age 36 and 37 seasons.
@padnastikador
Agree, And yes it was Stewart, Tony La Russa bears some responsibility as well. No good GM gives up assets for contracts with negative value.
Call Jeter in Miami! Get a deal done!
Grienke is GARBAGE!!
That would not be a good trade for the D-Backs. I understand that Greinke’s contract might be bad at the end of it, but taking what the Rangers offered would be big mistake. First, Choo doesn’t help the D-Backs in any way. They have a good outfield and don’t need an overpaid guy like Choo. Second, if they are going to eat part of Greinke’s contract, they need to be getting more than marginal prospects in return.
They actually could use Choo in the outfield. They have potential All-Star AJ Pollock in center, solid David Peralta in left and under-performer Yasmani Tomas in right (really a poor defender).
Choo could help to spell Tomas and Peralta and his defense would be better than Tomas’. I would guess being a good 4th outfielder, maybe everyday right fielder. With JD Martinez gone and no budget, the Dbacks need to be creative to fill the outfield and relief holes in the lineup.
Sad, because I think they have a good GM in Hazen and a year before signed a huge TV deal, but the owner Kenndrick is holding the budget in a near freeze with so many raising arb players on the team. As a fan of the team it’s a bummer, because with a budget of $140-160m this team could compete this year and build for the future without taking so many risks or trading some of their good players away.
Would this be interesting?
Dodgers attempted to acquire Greinke midway through 2016. It was never clear how much of his salary they would have assumed, but I doubt LAD would still be interested now. Greinke can be moved since he’s still an ace, but the number of potential trade partners is few. Milwaukee needs a SP, and they have the payroll flexibility to do it.
If its not going to take a lot to get Greinke, the Phillies should get in on this. Pat Neshak would love it, i am sure. ha ha.
Choo & Odor for Greinke & Tomas. Cash and dumps by both.
Great signing! They sure he didn’t come via San Diego?
D’backs would never trade an Ace for a bad contract. Hazen said the D’backs are not looking to “dump salary”, translation “You want an Ace? You’ll have to pay for an Ace!” i.e. pay all or most of Greinke’s salary and offer multiple impact prospects, or there will be no deal.
BTW, the article is wrong where it says Greinke is still owed $138.5M…Greinke has only been paid $48M to this point by the D’backs. His contract is $206M. Subtract and he is still owed $158M! He gets $21M per year, plus $3M per year bonus, for a yearly total of $24M. The other $10M per year is deferred and will not be paid to Greinke until 2022-2026.