As those who paid attention to the MLB offseason a year ago remember, Pirates center fielder Andrew McCutchen was among the most popular figures in the rumor mill. At the time, the Pittsburgh icon was coming off a career-worst season both offensively and defensively, which surely hindered the team in its efforts to garner suitable offers for him. Ultimately, the Pirates retained McCutchen and enjoyed a bounce-back year from him at the plate (.279/.363/.486 with 28 home runs in 650 PAs). While McCutchen struggled again in the grass, where he posted minus-14 Defensive Runs Saved and a minus-4.5 Ultimate Zone Rating, the onetime National League MVP nonetheless ranked a solid 17th among outfielders in fWAR (3.7).
This winter, on the heels of a rebound year, rumors regarding McCutchen haven’t been nearly as abundant. The Giants are the only known team with interest in the 31-year-old, yet they don’t seem to view him as a priority. Still, although nothing looks imminent on the McCutchen front, it’s possible the five-time All-Star has played his last game with the Pirates – who drafted him 11th overall in 2005.
With McCutchen entering a contract year in 2018, in which he’ll make $14.75MM, general manager Neal Huntington acknowledged this month that the player’s time in Pittsburgh may be winding down. Trading McCutchen prior to the season wouldn’t seem to make much sense if the Pirates plan to compete next season and avoid a third straight non-playoff campaign, but a return to prominence may be a long shot.
With McCutchen in the fold, the Pirates are projected to start 2018 with a payroll of just under $104MM. That would represent a season-opening high for owner Bob Nutting, whose rosters haven’t begun any campaign above the $100MM mark since he took the helm of the franchise in 2007. The Pirates’ low-spending ways may make an offseason McCutchen trade all the more likely, though he’s not the only notable veteran they could jettison to help cut costs. Infielder Josh Harrison, who will make $10MM in his third-last year of team control next season, has drawn widespread trade interest and might find himself in the uniform of the Yankees, Mets, Blue Jays or another club by the springtime.
Unlike McCutchen and Harrison – two useful but not great assets – right-hander Gerrit Cole would bring back a significant return in a trade. Not only is the flamethrowing 27-year-old a bona fide No. 2/3 starter, but he’s due a relatively modest $7.5MM in 2018. Considering Cole’s a Scott Boras client, the likelihood of him eschewing free agency in favor of a long-term extension with the Pirates seems low. That could increase their urgency to trade Cole, who’s going into his penultimate year of team control.
No doubt cognizant of the Boras factor, Huntington was reportedly “motivated” to part with Cole earlier this month. It appeared then that Cole would join the Yankees, but talks between them and the Pirates subsequently lost momentum. Even if Pittsburgh and New York don’t eventually find common ground, though, there are plenty of other teams that would benefit from a Cole addition – and the Bucs have engaged with some of those clubs.
At times, the 2017 portion of the offseason was a slow-moving bore, but the payoff is that there will be copious trades and signings in the New Year. With enticing trade chips in McCutchen, Harrison and Cole, the Pirates may often find themselves at the center of the action leading up to April. If you were calling the shots for the club, how would you approach the next couple months?
(poll link for app users)
Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
Tristin
What’s next? Irrelevancy for many years.
captainchaos55
What’s next? Party in Cincy for better chance to not finish last.
neworleanstaints
Reds are probably worse than the Pirates with less of a future. So unless they start convincing FA’s to sign with them, the Reds will be bottom dwellers of the division. But Pirates stink too.
User 4245925809
Like it or not. Pirates are a prime example of what happens with sky rocketing salaries that occurred when free agency went wild.
This team had a rich and winning past, same with the reds both filled out with several HOF players at the same time for decades and that time is now long gone for them both.
No disrespect intended, but they are now teams getting handouts from other owners to remain relevant via revenue sharing.
Either place LOW salary caps on all teams to keep all of them viable and equal, or get rid of it period (salary cap).
All one has to do is look back to when teams like Baltimore, Cinci, Pittsburgh could run 3-4 HOF players on a roster throughout the 60’s and 70’s and afford to KEEP them, yet now they cannot to know something is seriously wrong.
igotabooner
They can still afford to keep them but they would rather KEEP profits in their pockets rather than invest in their team
slider32
Totally disagree, both the NFL and NBA have salary caps, yet there are less teams that have a chance to make the playoffs and even less chance of winning like the Royals did a few years ago when they beat the Mets who were also a long shot.. The Pats are always a number 1 seed, and in the NBA there are only 2 teams that can win when the season starts. The O’s should have resigned Manny a few years ago instead of spending a ton on Davis, and Cinny is just poorly run Talking about the sixties is not relevent in today’s baseball.
David ellis
How are the Royals now? Trading or not resigning all the players that got them to the world series. Teams should get rid of players because they want to, not because they have to. They had a 3 year window and now are going back to the bottom. Rich teams don’t rebuild, they just sign whomever they want.
User 4245925809
It’s partly and owner now in Baltimore, granted but it’s just as relevant now as was in 60’s and 70’s. FA and especially the huge salaries changed the game and locations which once could and did keep perennial winning teams on the field.
not saying there were not poorly ran franchises years ago. washington Senators folded/moved because of constant poor ownership, awful stadium and losing ways. Same could be said of Charlie O’s KC atletics..
Mention by another poster of owners pocketing all the money is basic non understanding of the sport, or doesn’t care for capitalism as it stands in our country in other areas of our society, but that is not for these boards.
Lincoln Hill
How about a high salary floor instead of a cap. Players still get paid their market value but the owners are forced to put the luxury tax and profit sharing back into the team instead of their pockets.
Mathias1016
There is no salary cap. There is a luxury tax which teams like the Yankees pay each year. Also salary caps don’t work. Just look at the NBA. LeBron has literally been in the NBA finals 7 straight years. Teams before 1969 in baseball had so many guys because free agency wasn’t a thing.
While salaries skyrocketed in the late 90 early ’00 it doesn’t have the same effect as it use too. Teams like the Yankees won most of their world series with a core of home grown talent. The pirates current situation is nothing but their own fault. You look at teams like the red Sox or Yankees. That’s all home grown talent or trades for the most part. Even the Rockies are finally figuring out they need to develop hitters and starting pitching but maybe spend free agent money on the bullpen due to the stadium they play in. With metrics and trying to get younger the Pirates missed the boat with their best players but have done nothing to make the team better long-term. Parity in baseball has never been higher. A salary cap would ultimately hurt baseball overall. The pirates need to re- think how they manage their farm system and trades.
HarveyD82
what’s next? nothing. last place or next to last.
SpaceJamSucks
That’s not what Fangraphs projects
aloliver16
Why should the Pittsburgh front office, or fans of the Pirates care about what Fansgraphs has to say? Projection systems get it wrong on a consistent basis, I don’t understand why someone would assume the worst when the regular season doesn’t start until April.
SpaceJamSucks
Because they are a low budget team and projections tend to showcase how well you team stacks up to other teams. You shouldn’t and don’t see 60 win teams win 100 games, so yes you should pay a decent amount of attention to them. In addition the projections are the best way to determine how the roster you have constructed will work together, however, you should pay attention to the spread as well. Projections aren’t wrong, you just don’t understand how to use them.
Who’s assuming the worst?
mlb1225
I think it’s funny when Huntington says how he wants to compete next year, but A: has done nothing to improve a team that was below 500 last year, and
B: shops his players. He can’t make up his mind if he wants to rebuild, or compete.
Lincoln Hill
Each time Huntington or Hurdle speak I picture them on the podium as a presidential press secratary. They gag on every word because even they don’t believe anything that is coming out of their collective mouths. Speak the party line. What a joke!
orangeoctober 2
As an Orioles fan, I feel your pain. Just swap Huntington for Duquette and it’s the same thing for our fan-base too.
Mathias1016
As a Yankees fan I’m glad the Orioles have Duquette. As a fan of baseball Duquette is an idiot and had done nothing to help the Orioles. Overpaying for Davis when no-one rise was offering him anything close to what the O’s gave him. Not signing Fowler because he wanted an option year. Just really hamstrung himself for no reason.
Solaris601
The part that is so frustrating about Huntington is that he doesn’t move in any direction. Never seen a more prime example of all talk and no action. He’s one to sit and wait for something to happen, and if nothing happens, oh well.
slider32
Agreed, Huntington is in limbo which is the worst thing to do in running a team. Last year he trashed Cutch and then didn’t trade him.
Jkolti
As a pirates fan, there are really two options to me. 1. Trade all 3 and shoot for 2019. Or 2. Add an infielder and a pen arm and try for 85-90 wins in 18, which I really don’t think is out of the realm of possibility.
Solaris601
I’d support either option, but the biggest obstacle is that it seems Huntington is allergic to transactions.
David ellis
exactly, if they add todd Frasier at third and some decent starter, like lynn, thewould have a good shot at wildcard. if you notice, adding players, in addition to keeping their own, isn’t even and option in the poll. tells you how Nutting even has national writers hoodwinked
Caseys Partner
How about a new owner?
This one has looted the Pittsburgh fan base long enough.
shafe4141
Yep. This.
nymetsking
you can have the Wilpons
Phillies2017
This is the Pirates last chance for a quick and painless rebuild
Sell what you can
you got Cutch, Cole, Harrison, Freese, Hudson, Mercer, Cervelli, Nova and Polanco
Trade them now
Let Marte rebuild his value- trade him then
Get prospects that can be ready by 2020- Quality over Quantity
Felipe Rivero, Tyler Glasnow, Josh Bell and Jameson Taillon are all under team control through at least 2021
If they wait any longer to start the rebuilding process, then kiss any hopes of competing before 2024 goodbye.
Reecemann13
Couldn’t have said it better….
slider32
Agreed, Bucs have Keller and Baz on the way to go along with Taillon, and Glasnow. Adding a few quality top prospects to this mix could put the Pirates on the right track. They should be able to get top prospects for Cole, Hamilton, Cutch, and the rest.
Hannibal8us
That’s all fine and dandy except every team the Bucs talk to undervalues their assets. Trading for the sake of trading doesn’t benefit the organization unless they get studs back. I mean look at the Reds return for Chapman as a barometer of what happens when you’re too gung-ho to deal.
billneftleberg
Fire Harrington because he thinks they can win as is. When they aren’t even in the discussion they’re staring at 5th p lace. He blew the chance to improve by pissing off the yankees. Who Else will give Him 3 top prospects For A 500 Pitchet
SpaceJamSucks
Woooohhhh calm down, the Brewers and Reds are still both worse
matthew102402
How could the Brewers possibly be worse when they were just a few games out of a playoff spot, and the Pirates have done nothing to improve at all?
SpaceJamSucks
Because that was last year when they were playing above their expected win total, roster change and development of players occurs every year and each season must be considered in isolation. The Brewers knew they were pretty lucky last year.
matthew102402
I can never take anyone seriously who uses a pitchers W-L record to judge that picture.
xabial
I think Harrington’s hands are tied by one of the crappiest owner in all 4 N.A. professional sports. Let’s not lose sight of that.
I don’t know who’s worse.. — Him or Wilpons? Has to be close.
xabial
edit: Neal Huntington*
And you’re not getting rid of him anytime soon.
Why?
His Contract runs runs through 2021.
billneftleberg
Huntington damn autocorrect
RealHalSteinbrenner
If the Yankees trade quality prospects for Cole, I’ll vomit…. the guy is so mediocre and an injury risk…..
hersh0732
Every pitcher is an injury risk now days. Just like 90 year old CC Sabathia. So mediocre? Guess that’s what you call a top 30 pitcher in a league of 30 teams with 5 starters per team. Typical Yankees fan of no logic. I can’t wait til you guys trade for him and then you all complain until he starts to win for you.
mattingly23
Every Yankees starter except for Tanaka that is returning had a higher WAR than Cole, and I think more people would prefer Tanaka over Cole if given the choice. Not saying Cole isn’t a good pitcher, but calling him top 30 might be a reach. While having starting pitching depth is nice to have, yanks don’t need to trade their farm when they can slot so many others into sixth slot in rotation.
sanksterg
Servino is the only 2017 Yankees starter with a higher WAR than Cole with 5.7. Tanaka was 2.7, which was 2nd best.
(According to FanGraphs)
Cole would have slotted as number 2 in WAR (3.1 for 2017)
Cole 2 arb years, with 2018 $7.5 mil projection.
Yanks want to stay under luxury tax. The math is fairly simple. Yankees have some great players, but would you please not post WAR numbers as wishful thinking?
I don’t necessarily think Cole is a top 30 pitcher, but he certainly would be in the Yanks SP rotation. He likely would be 3 or 4. Possibly 2, depending upon how Cole adjust to AL.
Finally, think about run support…imagine Cole with a team that actually has hitters?
David ellis
The Yankees pitching is average at best. Lets not get it twisted, Cole is better than all of them.
newagescamartist
You’re kidding right? Not only do they have 3 solid starters they have the best bullpen in baseball.
Pablo
They’re paying more than $100 mm for a losing team. That’s the time to move contracts when there are teams out there that are cheaper, better younger. Plus they are looking up at the cubs for at least a couple of years.
Teams should take a hard look at the white sox. They had young up and coming players, but they looked and saw KCs window ending, but CLE and MIN just opening and they had better teams. So what did the white sox do? Kick it down the road just a little bit longer… most teams wouldn’t have moved Eaton, but they raked in. We saw the sale trade coming, but some teams wouldn’t have even done that. Sometimes you gotta time it right… and that can involve moving young players under control.
stymeedone
That the White Sox couldn’t build a contender with Sale, Quintana, and Eaton all signed to long term, team friendly contracts is nothing to be proud of. Nor is it something any other team will replicate. Most teams would fire the GM. The White Sox promoted theirs to team President. The odds are long that any one of the players acquired will rise to the level of those traded. It’s less likely that they will be able to sign him to as team friendly a contract. Enjoy your perpetual rebuild.
hotdoug5638
Pittsburgh talk but they never make trade.price is always to high.they won’t be going anywhere.
mlb1225
They haven’t been in any trade talks this off season, outside of The Yankees might be interested in Cole, and that’s about it.
Solaris601
Maybe that’s a strategy – don’t be linked to any type of trade talk, and you set the expectation that no transactions will be made. The old saying goes, “S*** or get off the pot.” Huntington is doing neither.
SpaceJamSucks
The Reds and Brewers both have worse projections via the link you gave.
SpaceJamSucks
I assume y’all just confused the Padres and Pirates btw
camdenyards46
Projections really don’t mean much as they are not correct that much. The Brewers are better than the Pirates and aren’t going to decline, as they are coming out of a rebuild/retool and they have lots of youth coming up from the system. They are also trying to sign free agents like Alex Cobb and Neil Walker to help with their positions of need. The Pirates are looking to trade away their best pitcher after a disappointing season. I believe their is some chance that they can turn around the ship(get it)this season, though.
bobveale
I’ve been wavering as to whether Pirates should make one more run, but now convinced they should sell all, unless the return for any player is really poor – Cole, Cutch, Harrison, Nova and Cervelli, even if they have to eat salary on the latter. Also Rivero, who should bring a good return. Starting pitching is solid, Taillon will be dominant, Keller up soon, and good depth for starting options. They could do a quick rebuild and compete by 2019 or 2020, and will have room to add salary. Team is too offense starved to compete in 2018 and Huntington needs to get over the idea of “competing” every year if Nutting can’t/ won’t spend more.
card collector18
What’s next? Under .500 seasons
Phillies2017
I don’t understand how the Brewers can have such a poor projection. Even their Pythagorean numbers were just one game behind their actual results (85 wins to 86) and the only players who they lost: Neil Walker (0.5 WAR), Jared Hughes (1.2), Matt Garza (-0.2), Anthony Swarzak (0.9) and Carlos Torres (0.3).
I understand Jimmy Nelson may miss some time early on, but it’s not like he’s out for the year.
Furthermore, they still have a fantastic system with plenty of guys who could realistically breakout.
TurncoatDave3
I have had enough of this franchise and their never ending pile of excuses. So I decided to root for the team that wants to field a winning team and puts their money where their mouth is. Go Yankees! The Pirates are done and I could imagine their players have a hard time suiting up every day for a cheap team who will sell you off unless you sign for below market value.
They trade everyone. They didn’t add a single exciting piece to the roster during the 3 years of contention as ownership enjoyed sell out attendance records. They had Cutch on a deal worth about $100m less than market value as an MVP candidate. Now he has played his way out.
It is a business it sure is. The Pirates ownership represents bad business for their customers aka fans.
I’m done. I can’t stomachs another Huntington or Nutting presser. F$!# off. Cheap window closing cheapskates. Leave it on the doorstep and get the h### outta here.
Go Yankees!!! No excuses! Never have to listen about payroll again.
Caseys Partner
You might as well follow the Yankees, the Pirates – as well as the Reds and Marlins – are MLB level farm teams for the Yankees.
The Yanks didn’t send Robbie Cano to the Pirates in a deal for a MLB asset but they did send the grossly over-hyped Jose Tabata.
xabial
I’m a Yankee fan too. I’m honored you choose NYY.
But be careful, though. Before winning 2009 WS, Yankees lost last 2 World Series made, 2001 and 2003 to the D’backs and Marlins. Before 2001, Yankees won past four of five WS, though. Some clubs can go 108 years without 1, after winning their first two WS in a row. The year after that, clubs that never won since in their 55 year inception, won it all.
And currently many clubs are englufed in WS droughts. Baseball’s crazy.
TurncoatDave3
That’s ok. I won’t ever brag or boast about the 27 titles because I wasn’t a fan then. For me its all about being sick and tired of the excuses that they feed the fans. Of watching them sell off players in the middle of a playoff run… The Pirates never make any meaningful deadline deals to add and make a run… I sat there like many others waiting and wishing for them to add excitement and make a move… They say hindsight is 20/20 but I told family and friends for the last 2 years that they would close their own window and make no moves. They pocketed that money and a few unfortunate things happened but they let their window close. And what message do they send to players??? Cutch is the face and they took advantage of having him outperform a $51m deal which is a third of what Ellsbury makes and Crawford and several other CF while Cutch put up MVP numbers. 3 postseason chances. Instead of trading prospects and adding a true piece they let it ride they sold off a few popular clubhouse guys… Told the fans they were all in… Stayed cheap… And now the thanks Cutch gets is to shipped off because he is older now and they used his prime for about $100m less than his worth. Sends one Heck of a message to your clubhouse…
slider32
The Bucs missed their window a few year ago, unlike the Royals they didn’t add. Now it is time to rebuild, but the window is closing the worst thing they can do is miss it again.
TurncoatDave3
Absolutely 100% correct. They are a cheap organization and they do not operate with a winning formula.
TurncoatDave3
From the perspective of a guy on the couch and wondering how I would feel as a player. I would be grateful for any deal I would sign. But you only play in Pittsburgh if you sign a deal like Cutch and Marte did… 5 to 6 years in your youth and hopefully outperform it. You won’t ever be a true all star because they won’t pay you they will trade you for prospects which is fine except they had a chance for 3 years like the Royals and they kept shopping at the Goodwill instead of making s serious run like they kept saying they would. Domt tell the fans you are all in yet ignore a major part of what it means to go for it all. Every one knows you aren’t going to make it of you can’t even bear the Cardinals and they add pieces and so do the Cubs. Now your prospects aren’t even that good lmao these pitches they raved about can’t stay healthy and here you are reading Cole becAuse he is a Boras guy and I’m sure Boras tells him not to worry about Pittsburgh anymore haha I can’t do it anymore. I had to start getting excited again and I saw my favorite non pirate player get trade by another terrible franchise so Go STANTON GO YANKEES!!!! Make us proud! NO EXCUSES
longjohnsilver
“After all, FanGraphs’ projections currently regard Pittsburgh as the worst team in the NL Central and a good distance from wild-card contention.”
Funny, it seem to me that looking at their projections that they are ranked higher then the Brewers and Reds. Did I miss something?
Gwynning's Anal Lover
The Pirates are a small market team, not because it’s a small market. It’s just that Pittsburgh likes winners.
greg91305
The Pirates could quickly open another window to contend if they sell now. It won’t be that far off either. The FO has to realize this year is lost already. They must make smart trades starting this week. Move Cutch, Cole, Harrison, Freese, Cervelli, Hudson and Kontos. Build a team around Bell and Taillon. Pirates fans can handle another losing season or 2. The time is now to regroup and retool.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Ideally they’d trade Cole and Co. now but, if they aren’t getting good offers, they are better off holding them.
Cole’s value is down. His value can’t get much lower because most of it is based on his stuff anyway. But it could get MUCH higher if he has a good first half. SP tends to be in demand at the deadline.
Harrison has a bunch of team friendly club options and he’s a fan favorite (heck, even the “fans” like J Hay) and he can fit anywhere so there’s no need to move him unless you get a very good offer.
The Pirates can keep Cutch and either get a first round comp pick for him next year after qualifying him OR possibly resign him if the market for corner bats continues to crater.
The Pirates are a year away from having solid prospects ready at most every position, so they aren’t looking at some long Astro style tear down even if they do sell.
Solaris601
Huntington will have another agonizing decision to make after 2018. I don’t think he’ll trade McCutchen at all. If he extends the QO, and Cutch accepts, then what do you do? Based on what’s happening this winter I think that in the near future more players will accept the QO rather than spending the winter watching their markets disintegrate.
jdichter
As a dodgers fan I’d have no issue if they went after Cole.
mcpenner67
3 team trade between PIT, NYY & SFG;
NYY – Cole & Harrison, 2 low level prospects from SFG
PIT – Pence, $4 mil & 1 low level prospect from SFG, Frazier, Adams & Andujar from NYY
SFG – Ellsbury & McCutchen
NYY pays 30 mil of Ellsbury’s remaining contract
williemaysfield
Pence and Ellsbury have no trade contracts and why would the Pirates want Pence?
I wouldn’t take Ellbury for 10million a year and give up prospects. Giants could sign Gomez, Dyson, Jackson, or Maybin for less.
gson
Pretty bad trade for the Giants.. They’re already one of the oldest teams in MLB.. adding Ellsbury and Cutch doesn’t help..
The Pirates need to add to their window of contention with talented players. Pence isn’t that.. Frazier is a repeat of an already existing strength of the Pirates while Adams and Andujar are both pretty much unknown/unproven.
Taking the Giants out of the picture and adding a team with a deep and near ML ready SP/C to this three team trade seems to be much more doable than allowing the Yankees to dump their old guys with crappy salaries for new/good players with two or more years of control.
Pirates get Chance Adams or Justus Sheffield, Ben Heller, Danny Salazar and Francisco Mejia
Yankees get Gerritt Cole and Jason Kipnis
Indians get Felipe Rivero, Domingo German and Andrew McCutchen
The Pirates add two MLB ready SP’s, a useable and ML ready reliever and their future backstop while reducing their payroll by $ 15 MM. The bottom line, the Pirates add 10 years of ML service for their starting pitching staff and 11 other years of ML service time with the RP and C. The additions are ready right now, so, there is no tear down required.
The Yankees get the high upside, MOR/TOR SP along with a solution to their second base question.
The Indians get at least a chance to replace what they may lose after the 2018 season in their pen while adding a right handed hitting OF’er while making their part of the deal revenue neutral.
Thoughts?..
66TheNumberOfTheBest
What’s next for the Pirates?
Playing in the AAAA with the other 22-24 teams while the “Premier League” begin their path towards a 6-8 team superleague of $300 million payrolls.
All while listening to the dumbest fan base in the league whine about how they deserve the Yankee’s payroll at the Altoona Curve’s ticket prices.
But, if Keller, Baz or even Glasnow pan out, then they could be one of the 1-2 teams that can compete with the Premier League for a year or two.
That’s the coming state of MLB.
TurncoatDave3
Wow that’s pretty much spot on.
TurncoatDave3
I know payrolls don’t always work out and neither do big signings like the Angles or even the Giants this year after signing all that pitching after winning 3 titles.
I understand its a business to run and I’m just a customer.
But as a customer I watched the only excitement since Sid Bream get killed off by the non commitment from the suits. They talk and talk and talk and what they say is true. But its the Royals and Indians and Cubs and about 7 other teams that are doing it. The Pirates are in fantasy land pretending like they don’t need to sign players or trade for veterans who matter to make a serious run.
I am just a fan of baseball and conversation so I cared to share.
Yankees I have hated them all my life but why? Because they follow the rules and they don’t cut excuses for fielding a winning team? You never hear them cry about payroll or you never sit and think… Well I know Stanton will never ever play for my team he is priced out.
Forget that I am done wasting my time. Go Yankees!
orangeoctober 2
I definitely see where you’re coming from, but Indians and Royals have reached the world series/made very deep runs over the last several years and their payrolls aren’t anywhere near $300 million. Royals window has closed now, but they made 2 world series and won 1. As an O’s fan, I’d take that in a heartbeat. Obviously though the teams with the massive payrolls have a better chance of competing year in, year out and can absorb bad signings much more easily.
TurncoatDave3
They had a really good team and they were hot. Instead of pulling the trigger on a David Price or another ace pitcher to finish it off, they did nothing.. Got eliminated by Michael Wacha and then let Neal Walker, Edinson Volquez, and a few others go. They signed some fun players but nobody anyone is scared of. They were good enough to run into the Bumbardgner Buzzsaw lol. Then let another group of guys go, and all these coveted prospects who were supposed to come up and help win ended up hurt or not being that great.
This is when the Cubs prospects leapfrogged them and the Cubs went out and made acquisitions like Chapman and Lester and others. Pirates just wont ever do this. They let guys go. Volquez went and won with the Royals for a measly $10m a year. Pirates wouldn’t give him a contract and keep him. They don’t keep anyone, they send a very poor message to their players and their fans. They wont ever make that deadline deal to go all in. They wont take on any salary.
Indians added Andrew Miller and Edwin Encarnion. Astros added Verlander, do the Astros win that title without Verlander???? Heavens no!
After 20 losing seasons and watching every decent player traded away, and watching these so called prospects come up and underperform or get hurt or get suspended. I am just done. Its honestly exhausting and I wake up every day NOT wanting to be in a bad mood while reading more BS quotes from Huntington, or having him pretend like he is going to win a World Series because he signed John Jaso lol.
They already messed up and I called it 2 years ago and it happened just the way I predicted and I’m just a dude in Ohio. I’m not having fun anymore calling myself a fan of this organization.
Go Yankees! No excuses! No payroll complaining! Play some ball!
streicher187
funny you complain about whining when that’s what this whole post is. Tired of hearing the “small market” crybabies when real front offices have no problem building a winner – what’s the Pirates excuse for the Yankees having a better farm system and better young players than the Pirates? Tampa Bay, KC, Houston, Arizona etc all have no problem winning with the same payroll as the Pirates.. Fact is this horrible GM 3 best draft picks weren’t signed and now star for other teams who drafted them after the Pirates.
David ellis
They bought international players mostly. Other than that, they traded players they stole in trades from small market teams.. Do you really think its a fair system when one teams gets billions in local tv revenue and the other gets 40 million. Come on man!
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Actually, they got most of their best prospects by trading Andrew Miller and Aroldis Chapman.
Miller they acquired by giving a then unheard of sum of money to a middle reliever in free agency.
Chapman they were able to acquire because they had little to fear even if a large portion of their fan base revolted against the acquisition of a domestic abuser because they had more than enough fans on the waiting list behind them.
So their money gave them the assets they used to build an amazing farm system. It was laundered money, but they bought that farm system.
If you don’t understand the MYRIAD ways the Yankees buy their success rather than earn it, take a look at the NY Jets and Giants and Knicks and see what happens when big markets can’t just outspend their opposition.
Mathias1016
The Yankees signed Miller because they saw his value. Your point is also mute considering the Rockies just signed Davis to the highest annual contract ever given to a reliever. The reds could have easily held onto Chapman but their FO also isn’t very good and gave him up for peanuts. The Yankees just capitalized. They could have easily held onto him until the trade deadline. The pirates if smart should make more trades in season where teams that are in the playoff hunt are willing to give up more for an impact player.
The Knicks are poorly managed. The Cavaliers lucked into LeBron. The warriors pulled an Astros and rebuilt from the ground up. The NBA has no parity. The pirates badly mismanaged their roster and they only have themselves to blame. The rays are small market yet compete all the time. The pirates should take a note or too.
David ellis
You do realize that ticket prices are supply and demand, it has very little to do with payroll costs. The Yankees get billions in tv revenue, while the pirates get maybe 50 million. See the problem? Not ticket price or attendance, but location
66TheNumberOfTheBest
The Pirates get $18 million a year in local TV revenue. The Dodgers get $300 million.
Nutting should just pull $282 million a year out of his bank, they think.
Yankeepatriot
30+ years for a rebuild and there was only a 2-3 year window, how is that possible ? The pirates have been badly ran for decades and changes need to be made and the owner needs to either A invest in the team more and not just use it for profit or B sell it so someone who actually cares
joew
its still open, people just panicking when there really is no need too.
David ellis
because they have no money
joew
My hopes are the team find a third basemen and pen help while keeping people healthy and they are with in reach of the play offs the last week of the season. Realistically Cole and Cutch will be gone (hopefully to bring in those needed pieces)
streicher187
With the Cubs and much improved Cards in the division not a chance but they will give Cinci a run for last
joew
funny.. last year all of the central was ‘better’ than the pirates last season except for Cinci. The only team that really beat up on the Pirates last season was …. Cinci.. the other central teams was pretty close to .500.
Boy billy is fast isn’t he?
streicher187
I would be fine with a rebuild if it wasn’t the worst GM in Pirates history doing it – this will be his 2nd try after failing the 1st time around and if they fired him the next GM wouldn’t have much to work with. When Huntington came in he had trade pieces like Jason Bay and young guys about to break out like McCutchen, Jose Bautista (who he gave away), N. Walker etc. and all he did was lose every veteran for prospect trade he made and if he wasn’t allowed to spend money on guys like A.J. Burnett and Russell Martin they would never have ended the losing streak. Huntington failed a drafts, failed at trades and with a new TV deal coming up and ratings in the tubes they will be losers for years to come but the bank account will keep building up
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Dave Littlefield left a pile of rubble and in 5 years Neal Huntingdon had a top rated farm system and an MLB team that made the playoffs 3 straight years, including a 98 win team.
DK and Madden are rotting your brain.
David ellis
Add Todd Frasier and Lance Lynn, problem solved
Yankeepatriot
Someone mentioned above that the pirates window is still open. I have to disagree due to numerous teams in front of them getting better and have the potential to add even more to what they have
Rockies: holy smokes a team using revenue sharing money for once ? 100 million spent on their pen to help support their good offense which was at the top of the ladder in the NL. Their Starting pitching isn’t good but it never is. They are still a legit wild card threat
Cardinals: they got the big bat they needed and they wisely didn’t burn away all of their prospects this off season. They can either help the team on the field or be flipped at the deadline for mid season help if needed. Always competitive and are always well ran tear after year. Wild card contender at worst and they are getting stronger
D backs: if it wasn’t for that ridiculous winning stretch by the dodgers earlier in 2017 this team could have had a shot at the division. Their offense is one of the best in the NL and their starters are pretty solid. They will make a run at machado or Harper next off season and if they succeed look out NL ! Like the cards they are at worst a wild card contender. And watch out for Robby ray next year, love this guy !!
Cubs. The favorites in the central once again and the pirates won’t pass them any time soon. They actually develop players now and as such they won’t be the scrubby cubbies again anytime soon. Oh and they have $$$$$$. I predict Harper to the cubs next year. Good luck dealing with that pirates
Brewers: one of my favorite NL teams to watch last season and they are on the brink of becoming a 90+ win team. Another division rival who is superior to the pirates. They are fairly well balanced and are a ace pitcher away from being a dark horse. Another wild card contender to deal with
These teams being better along with the pirates getting worse makes it hard to believe that their window is open. Cutch is gonna walk and cole is two seasons away from walking too. Also marte needs to bounce back. Also their owner loves shopping at dollar tree for vets and hopes he gets lucky with them. The pirates have a ton working against them
joew
The difference is that in order for the pirates to get better in ’18 over ’17 is they don’t have to do much of anything other than have their players on the field. If they perform close to expectations then they have a shot. WS is a definite long shot, but play offs ‘should be’ with in reach should they stay healthy.
Yankeepatriot
The pirates need to leap frog 3 of the teams I listed to make the post season and I just don’t see that happening at all. Too much needs to go their way
joew
or simply not go against them and they have a shot.
Yankeepatriot
Three of those teams are in their own division so not facing them isn’t possible lol
joew
I see what your saying there but not how it was meant.. you said too much needs to go their way.. i said or not go against them. LIke avoiding runs of bad luck like in ’17
yeah would be right though if that is how it was meant 🙂
Carpenter338
The Pirates tied up $22M for 2018 between Cervelli, Hudson and Sean Rodriguez. Of course they won’t be able to compete. Trade then for nothing for all I care. Bad decisions for a small market team. I’m sure Elias Diaz, Steven Brault and Chris Bostick would replace their production for $2M. We then have $20M to spend. Trade for one year of Machado, compete this year. Offer Machado a QO that he is guaranteed to reject and collect another draft pick. Don’t forget to cancel Sean Rodriguez bobblehead night.
Oh and anyone who thinks Todd Frazier is a big get did not watch baseball the past two years.
David ellis
He is so much better than no power freese, Harrison, and rodriguez.. Comeon man.
Kylep01
I strongly belive the Bucs have a chance to contend in 2018, though it is risky to considering our window is closng. the lineup is coming off a down year but features a outfield that is due for a resurgence, followed by fairly decent hitters in Bell, Harrison, Freese, and mercer.
The rotation I feel like is extreamely underrated. I think trading Cole would make sense but I do feel like we have a strong rotation in hand with Tailon, Williams, Nova, Kuhl (Who I am a huge fan of) and a potential replacement if Cole is traded is Glasnow, Brault. It is young but the talent is starting to take shape. The bullpen does need an arm but I strongly feel we can compete but our window is closing and if we aren’t in July, expect a dismantling.
Plus the future team isn’t too far away unlike the Marlins or Tigers.
arthur3 2
Only when the financial playing field has been leveled in MLB,, to promote the competitive parities of all teams in their respective professional leagues, will teams like the Pirates have any real chance at a World Series banner. There is no way the a smaller market baseball team can afford to commit to paying 25 million dollars annually, or more, to one player for the next ten years, including $32 million at age 35, as the Yanks will pay Giancarlo. Our best hope in Pittsburgh is to generate a maximum return for our star players. Trading Cole, McCutchen, Harrison now would be a mistake for suspect/unproven minor league talent. Best to wait until season begins and allow these players to show their collective value.
Caseys Partner
The playing field has been leveled. The Pirates owner Bob Nutting has systematically stolen all the money that should have been used to push the Pirates over the top to go for a World Series.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
The Yankees generate 20-30 times the revenue the Pirates do. Your definition of level is unique.
Caseys Partner
Your estimates of the Pirates and Yankees revenues are psychotic.
2016 payrolls:
Kansas City Royals: $136,564,175
Pittsburgh Pirates: $95,840,999
———————————-
$40,723,176
How much does Max Scherzer make? Bob Nutting claims he has no money to pay someone like Scherzer.
Nutting has stolen about a half billion dollars from Pirates fans.
Mathias1016
The Mariners paid 25mil to Cano and they are ib no way a big market team. AZ paid Greinke this year. We traded for Stanton because it cost us nothing in additional payroll when we traded away Castro and Headley. Salary caps do nothing to create parity. The Yankees roster is almost entirely made up of home grown talent or guys we traded for. Parity in mlb is the highest its ever been. To think a cap would do anything is short sided.
David ellis
You can’t honestly think that trading Castro for Stanton was a fair trade? It was a salary dump by a small market team to a large market team.
arthur3 2
The Yankees paid $317 million dollars for ARod to win one world series. The team will pay Giancarlo Stanton $285 to win their next? Small market baseball teams do not have enough revenue to offset the legacy costs of declining players, as the Yanks will readily absorb. Parity exists in other sports leagues when teams like the Pittsburgh Penguins and the Steelers are readily able to compete with the Jets, Giants, Rangers, and Islanders., or teams like the Cavaliers are competitive with the Knicks. The big difference? New York teams seemingly can’t win titles that they can’t outspend
Mathias1016
LeBron has literally been in the NBA finals for the past 7 years. With the warriors being the other team for the past 3. That’s not parity. When LeBron leaves Cleveland they will become irrelevant and a salary cap won’t help them. The Mariners are paying Cano 250 for 10 years and they are small market. Arod only got the Yankees one world series. The reality is big contracts for older players doesn’t work. That’s worthy the trashes said no to a guy like Cano. AZ is paying Greinke big money in a small market. Teams like the giants, royals, Astros all recently won the world series by sending wisely, building hop good farm systems and making quality trades. The Yankees are good now because their farm system is in the top 5 and by making really good trades. Salary caps still don’t work.
David ellis
James is a GOAT. There is only five player per team on the court, hence, more impact. Where there is lots of players needed, your theory doesn’t work. Football and hockey
Mathias1016
It was a salary dump because Loria was an awful owner and the new ownership had no option. The Yankees were able to trade away headley and Castro whose salaries equaled Stanton salary. So the Yankees took on nothing additional in salary overall whole obtaining a much better player. It was a trade regardless and not a free agent signing. So again it’s not a parity issue because the Yankees are a competitive team. If they weren’t Stanton most likely would have said no to the trade like he did with the Giants. The Pirates put themselves in this position.
David ellis
They can afford Stanton’s contract, pirates can’t. Its that simple. Nutting is an idiot who wont spend ANY money but he would never be able to afford Stanton. The bottom line, billions in tv revenue vs 18 million in tv revenue
Yankeepatriot
The pirates owner and other owners pocket revenue sharing money each year which is a waste of what the system was ment for. Either force them to spend it on payroll or take it away from them
Caseys Partner
Sounds good, but who’s going to take the money away from them? They’re all equal partners in MLB, 30 crime families. The Commissioner has some discretion but if he steps on anyone too hard he gets whacked
like Paul Castellano.
David ellis
I believe, if baseball doesn’t want to change its system, they at least should split the leagues up into 2.. One league of the 15 largest markets and one with the 15 smaller markets.
David ellis
You idiots, they get maybe 50 million in revenue sharing compared to the billions the large market teams get. Stop saying its small market teams fault they cant spend the small amount they get properly. Also, when the Pirates do find a way to beat the system by paying more money to their draft picks to get them to forgo college, the large market teams complain and change the rule. Shut up, Just shut up Yankee fans. You are wrong
Mathias1016
It’s the pirates fault. You do realize Gerrit Cole passed on the Yankees out of high school right? That’s why teams at times will draft college seniors in the first round which means they can pay under slot and then draft a high ceiling high school player while paying above slot. The draft is not the issue. The problem is management.
David ellis
Take the tv revenue off the Yakees and we have a deal