The Mariners have officially struck a deal with the Marlins to acquire second baseman Dee Gordon. Seattle will also pick up $1MM in international spending capacity. Righty Nick Neidert is going back to Miami along with fellow prospects Christopher Torres and Robert Dugger.
It’s a rather stunning move that was not at all anticipated for a Seattle organization that has highly-paid star Robinson Cano at Gordon’s accustomed position of second base. But the M’s have a plan, it seems: Gordon will move to center field, according to Jim Bowden of MLB Network Radio (Twitter link) and as Mariners GM Jerry Dipoto confirms (via Divish, on Twitter).
The Marlins have been working hard to pare salary this winter, and that meant finding a taker for the 29-year-old Gordon’s contract. He’s promised another $38MM through the 2020 season, including a buyout on a $14MM option for 2021, all of which will be assumed by the Mariners. Other players are sure to follow Gordon out of Miami.
As for the Mariners, adding Gordon will account for the loss of Jarrod Dyson to free agency. Gordon certainly has the speed for the outfield, though it remains to be seen how his glove will translate after a ten professional seasons spent exclusively in the middle infield. Range surely won’t be a problem, as Gordon has led the National League in stolen bases in three of the past four seasons.
Wheels, of course, are also Gordon’s calling card on offense, where he’s among the game’s most valuable baserunners. So long as he can maintain something like his 2017 slash line — .308/.341/.375 — Gordon ought to be a solid enough performer with the bat to be a net positive in terms of creating runs. That’s shy of the .333/.359/.418 output Gordon posted in his breakout 2015 season, but approximately league-average hitting with a bit more upside is plenty given Gordon’s other attributes.
[RELATED: Updated Mariners & Marlins Depth Charts]
Gordon has been a quality regular for three of the past four years. But that other season — an unfortunate 2016 campaign — is cause for some concern. Gordon’s tepid offensive work (.268/.305/.335 in 346 plate appearances) is worth noting, but his 80-game PED suspension is yet more troubling. It’s at least promising that he was able to bounce back on the field in the ensuing year.
Perhaps unsurprisingly, the M’s are gaining an additional $1MM in international bonus capacity. That, no doubt, will go to the team’s efforts to land Japanese star Shohei Ohtani. Seattle now has just over $3.5MM in pool space — and just slightly more than any other Ohtani pursuer.
For the Marlins, clearing the salary was the top priority. But they won’t come away empty handed. A second-round pick in 2015, Neidert dominated in 19 High-A starts last year, posting a 2.76 ERA with 9.4 K/9 and 1.5 BB/9 over 104 1/3 innings. But he fell flat upon a promotion to Double-A, surrendering 17 earned runs on 33 hits and recording just 13 strikeouts against five walks in his 23 1/3 innings there. And Ryan Divish of the Seattle Times tweets that scouts have not been all that high on Neidert’s future prospects in the majors.
Neidert rated among the best prospects in a generally lightly regarded Seattle farm, while Torres also cracks the top ten on MLB.com’s most recent list. He’s a speedy, young, switch-hitting shortstop who has quite a lot of development but also real promise. The 22-year-old Duggar, meanwhile, is a recent collegiate product who carried a 2.00 ERA in 72 Class A frames split between the rotation and the pen in 2017. Though his results weren’t as impressive after a mid-season promotion, he managed 9.3 K/9 against 3.2 BB/9 along with a 3.94 ERA in his 45 2/3 frames at High-A.
Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic reported the deal (Twitter link). Jim Bowden of MLB Network Radio tweeted Neidert’s inclusion, while Jon Heyman of Fan Rag tweeted the other prospects. Tim Healey of the Sun Sentinel reported that the Mariners would assume Gordon’s full contract, while Mark Feinsand of MLB.com tweeted the inclusion of the bonus pool money.
Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
TheMichigan
Dee at shortstop?
Brixton
Segura is there, with a fat contract. I’ll guess CF
mdbaseball05
Agreed. This is my only guess as well.
mlb fan
Seattle writers are reporting that Dee Gordon will be moved to CF to replace the Free agent Jerrod Dyson…
Slipknot37
Only thing I could think of. There’s seager, cano, segura, Cruz and Healy fill the dh. Takes care of the infield. Unless they plan to trade someone which still wouldnt make sense
simschifan
Has he ever played center? I hate this kinda stuff. A team loaded with offense makes an unnecessary trade to put a guy out of place on the field. Unless they plan on trading him for a pitcher I don’t get this.
NuckBobFutting
He played CF in the Dominican League for the Dodger in 2013
terry g
He’s played there but not recently or in the majors
danny vallejo
He plays outfield but his arm isn’t that strong so he won’t be able to throw guys out. Reminds me of Juan Pierre that way. If he gets on a tear he can hit and steal bases though.
CardsNation5
No
Joe Kerr
His arm HAS to be better than Juan Pierre’s, my arm was better than Pierre’s when I was 12.. He is to this day the only major leaguer I have seen trying to throw out a runner at home and have the ball 3 hop to the pitchers mound from average depth CF. 1st baseman picked up the ball and looked at him like, really?
justinept
When you start talking about a roster crunch in the lineup, it makes you wonder how they’d fit in Ohtani…
Brixton
Haniger, Gordon and Cruz in the OF, Ohtani DHs, when Ohtani isn’t playing, you put Heredia out there, and Cruz DHs
outinleftfield
Juan Pierre is a perfect comparison for type of player. You want someone fast in CF, but you want someone with the instincts for CF and there were lots cheaper options.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
He’s 100% American why the hell would he play for a Dominican league?
CursedRangers
Big time fan of Cruz. You just don’t want him in the OF on a regular basis.
dirty-d
They would probably put ohtani in the OF over Cruz. He’s got a strong arm and better range than Cruz. Cruz still has a cannon but lacks movement
rightwingrick
He’s a shortstop, so his arm can’t be that bad. Probably average for an outfielder.
redsox 1976
So!! Amecan play in Dominican league to stay in shape and be ready for spring training
jasonthebuc
He was abysmal at short for the Dodgers…that is why they moved him to second.
saavedra
link to video please
bigkempin
Juan Pierre is a terrible comparison because JP came into the league as a CF. Gordon has no clue about routes
assumptions
So they can tune skills or stay in shape?
brucewayne
Winter Ball !
brucewayne
Not a SS at all! Arm is not strong enough! That’s why he was moved to 2nd base.
brucewayne
I would put Gordon at 2nd base
brucewayne
and move Cano to 1st base! That’s a pretty decent infield with Seager
brucewayne
and Segura too!
Stevil
Not likely going to see any of the position players traded. They could feasibly use Gamel as the backup 1st baseman and rotate players more consistently to get them rest, which was the point of hiring Dr. Martin.
It makes sense if they land Ohtani and Gordon can handle the outfield. If not, they’ll have to improvise quite a bit.
rmullig2
Where does Gamel fit?
stymeedone
Worked for Boston. No. Wait. It didn’t.
manrock
He’s a second baseman not a shortstop. Big difference.
Zissou
He’s a SS turned 2B
outinleftfield
He WAS a 2B because he didn’t have the arm for SS.
cecildawg
Baloney.
Gwynning's Anal Lover
How does that actually happen? Was he just not throwing the ball right over his career? I’ve even seen people throw the opening pitch harder. As a professional athlete, he couldn’t have been that weak. So what was the deal?
JWolfe
It did…Mookie…
natsfan3437
They could move cano to first or cano to third Seager to first
ayrbhoy
Worked for Texas who got a steal from the 2016 FA class in Ian Desmond. Former SS turned OF became an All- Star that year.
docmilo5
Gamel? His sub .700 OPS and 4 steals on the year makes him pretty much a 4th OFer vs RHP.. He’s the LFer at the moment and could be full time if Heredia is slow to recover from shoulder surgery.
If the M’s get Ohtani and that moves Cruz/Ohtani to some OF rotations Heredia and or Gamel may find themselves traded. Their GM is fond of making deals, you know.
dugdog83
Haha I was waiting for an answer
marinersblue96
Seattle radio is reporting CF. No word on what they are giving up yet, but looks like a salary purge for Miami.
mlb fan
resigning Jerrod Dyson, one of the top 3 CF in the game defensively, would have been a better move for Seattle than picking up $38 million left on Dee Gordon to move him out of position……no way Jerrod Dyson gets anywhere near 38 million in my opinion……
marinersblue96
True, but $1 million in slot money is to try to entice Ohtani. M’s have the most cash to offer now.
wayneroo
Of course not. Gordon is 4 years younger and a better hitter.
outinleftfield
The Mariners gave up Neidert, their #2/#3 prospect. He is a very good pickup for the Marlins. A 2nd round pick out of Peachtree High in Atlanta. Last season he was throwing 94-95 consistently at Modesto and then was called up for the last month of the season to AA at age 20. He is around the plate with a FB that has good movement in to the RHB and he doesn’t walk many. He also has a good changeup and a slider and a curve that are a work in progress.
I see why Miami would want him, I just don’t see why the Mariners would trade for a good 2B and move him to CF.
JackOfDiamonds
If Gordon can adapt to CF he’s a major improvement over Dyson.
Stevil
Dyson quit on the team and would need a platoon partner. Jon Jay would have been a better fit in LF with Haniger taking CF. But, this makes the team more flexible if it works and this is clearly all about Ohtani. It’s as if they were told they’ll get him with the extra IBP dough.
jbigz12
THats what the nariners #2 or 3 prospect for an expensive 2b they’re going to move to center. How much would’ve Dyson have cost? Have to think less.
docmilo5
On the top 50 FA projections they have Dyson to the Pirates for 2/$12M here. Gordon costs $24 over the 2 years. He’s worth it if the extra $1M means Ohtani to Seattle.
Gret1wg
Can’t play SS, wake up!
davbee
He’s not going to play ss. Wake up.
jasonthebuc
Did you ever see him play shortstop for the Dodgers?There is a reason he got moved to second and it had nothing to do with Corey Seager!
cecildawg
Gordons arm? Check out youtube – Matt Kemp challanges Dee Gordon.
abmarinerjv
Rock on Dipoto!
Gwynning's Anal Lover
Utility player. Bench duties.
a1544
Where in the world is he going to play on the field
dynamite drop in monty
Left Out
CardsNation5
CF
jdgoat
Dealin!!
Brixton
Dee Gordon, welcome to Center Field
elscorchot
Does it make sense, though? He’s a gold glove winner at 2nd
Brixton
Cano is good, but putting him at 1B/DH would be wasteful, plus it doesn’t matter if it makes sense because A.) it’s confirmed, and B,) it’s Dipoto
elscorchot
True. Trying to wrap my head around it.
JT19
I could see them eventually trying to move Cano to 1B and Gordon back to 2B in a year or two. Obviously depends on how receptive Cano is to moving there, but it could extend his career by another year or two and might fill the revolving door of first basemen if only temporarily.
whereslou
Cano is not going to 1st they have White coming up to play 1st. When Cano is done with 2nd he will be DH at the end of his contract. Healy will be at first until White is ready.
Stevil
Cano likely does move to 1B at some point, though probably not next season. Don’t be surprised if White starts seeing time in the outfield.
docmilo5
You never make moves based on what you have in the minor leagues. When White bangs down the door, then you can think about that. Too many prospects fail.
docmilo5
What happens if the M’s find a deal for Healy? He’s not a bad fit for a team like the Royals that want to go cheap and have an opening at 1B. Cano has had huge range issues and lower body injuries the last 2 to 3 years that have affected his range at 2nd base. He would benefit from a move to 1B this year to keep his legs and abdomen healthy.
It’s all about Ohtani. If the M’s land the kid he changes the OF dynamics.
1B Cano
2B Gordon
SS Segura
3B Seagar
LF Gamel/Heredia/Haniger
CF Haniger/Heredia/Ohtani
RF Haniger/Ohtani/Cruz
C Zunino
DH Cruz/Ohtani
Remove Ohtani and you go with the Depth Chart the M’s have right now w/Healy.
WalkersDayOff
They must wanna stick him in the outfield
jasbcar
Umm why?
jonnyj
Cano???
simschifan
Uh ok? Flip him for something else?
MHanny17
Maybe keep his contract to get more back or something
dirtbagfreitas
Obviously DiPoto’s thinking…I don’t know what the hell he’s thinking.
Major League quotes aside maybe putting him in the OF?
marlinsman
Dealin DiPoto at it again
MHanny17
Super Util?
weber722
Doubtful
Jimcarlo Slaton
Seattle management..what a joke. The fans deserve better. I’ve never attended a Mariners game, but on tv they usually seem enthusiastic, despite constant losing and poor upper management.
steven st croix
I agree. They seem to make moves just to make them and hope they get lucky. How did that work out with Chris Taylor?
wayneroo
They had no clue Taylor was going to do what he did last year. Based on what they saw and knew, he was expendable with no reason to think otherwise.
jdgoat
Chris Taylor also sucked until this year
UGA_Steve
Not only did Taylor suck, he even admitted he wasn’t worth anything until he started swinging for the fences and adjusting his bat angle.
As for this trade, they gave up ZILCH it sounds like. I hate to break it to you, but they don’t have any legitimate pieces in the minors. This means that ANY time they can trade a nothing for a guy that can play in the majors immediately and doesn’t strap their payroll then it’s a win for the fans.
M fans should be drooling over this. Primary job in CF is to help cover the gaps and he can do that. He might lose two runs a year based on his arm. This is a solid trade for the M’s and the fans.
mlb fan
@steve mayne…..if I was the Mariners I would have just resigned Jerrod Dyson to a 2 yr extension at about 15-16 million and he would be my CF next yr……
outinleftfield
They gave up their #2 prospect at a minimum. Info is still coming in
pdubs2907
#2 prospect…..from a bad farm.
outinleftfield
A 50 graded prospect who is now the Marlins #2 prospect according to BA. A kid who reached AA at age 20.
Doesn’t matter how the Mariners farm was ranked, it only matters what quality Neidert is and he is a good one. Not TOR upside, but a high probability of making it to the majors as a #3 or #4 starter.
Stevil
How did that work out with Segura and Haniger?
Bart
DiPuto thinks he is sticking it to the Angels.
Stevil
If they land Ohtani, good luck arguing otherwise.
Weighed
Nelson Cruz on the move? Healy to DH. Robinson Cano to 1B.
Who the fun knows?
He might be moved in a quick deal like Mallex Smith was last year. Dont even give him a ticket to Seattle, on to the next destination.
wayneroo
I was thinking Cruz goes ,Cano to DH.
Stevil
No chance Cruz goes. They have their team on the field if they intend to run with a 13-man pitching staff. Ohtani only strengthens their options.
docmilo5
How about Healy to the Royals if the M’s bring in Ohtani?
acarneglia
Dealin Dipoto!!!!!!!
prf999
Our new center fielder!
txtgab
Healy, Cano, Segura, Gordon, Seager… what the hell is going on *Stu from The Hangover Voice*
MB923
Wowzers. Didn’t see that one. Then again, it’s Dipoto.
LADreamin
HOT STOVE!!!
JohnnyV
Mariners were informed they are not getting Ohtani, and that is why they made this move (the start of many trades/signings).
davbee
Then why did they just get $ Mil in International slot money from the Marlins?
Dogham
i can’t tell if you are dumb or just stupid. This move was made to shore up CF, replace the speed of Dyson, get more consistent bat than Dyson provided and INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF INTERNATIONAL POOL $$$$ FOR OHTANI. How can you not see that?? This move GETS Ohtani.
triumph13
Really? I guess the caps prove how much smarter YOU are….
jimmertee
Dogham, that planworked well. Not.
dirtydan
They probably want to move Cano to first. Or maybe segura at third Gordon at short and Seager at first?
whereslou
Why would you move a gold glove 3rd bm to 1st? You obviously haven’t watched much Mariner BB. That is idiotic. Go sit in the corner for 15 mins.
Chris Sale Amateur Tailor
your right but no need to be an ad about it
MHanny17
This can’t be the last move
Stevil
There’s going to be more pitching added. Even with Ohtani, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Darvish or another starter, plus a reliever.
formerlyz
As a Marlins fan, if they got rid of his salary, I’m good woth anything at all in a Gordon deal. Great person all the way around and a guy you like to root for. But I’m glad he’s not on my team anymore, at that price. Marlins made a really terrible trade to get him too, so that made it more difficult watching him get thrown out on the bases 25-30 times a year
Jimcarlo Slaton
He also likely parlayed PED use into a larger contract.
Joe Kerr
He has never been thrown out more than 20 times in his career, so I don’t know where you got the 25-30 from and for his career he is almost 80% successful in SB attempts. Not too shabby if you ask me.
elscorchot
Yep
formerlyz
Caught stealing plus pickoffs plus getting thrown out on the bases elsewhere, and the number o gave is conservative…Seeing him almost every night the last 3 years, he might be the worst baserunner I’ve ever seen
outinleftfield
80% is breakeven on SB. Anything below that and would have been better to stay at 1B. Gordon’s value in BsR is as much on taking an extra bases on hits, his own and those who hit behind him.
kenneth cole
Dan Haren was in that deal too right?
Kosmo
God. I love Jerry dipoto
ABCD
Everybody, drink a shot now.
formerlyz
Ya…deal still made no sense at the time. I was royally upset. It worked out slightly better than i thought, but still really bad
kingcong95
How many fleece jackets could Trader Dipoto sell at a Marlins game?
andrewmoore33
Moving Cano to First?
algionfriddo
It has to happen soon. Cano is an amazing player but he turned 35 this past October. Even if Cano has a down offensive year as a 1b-man he’d be better than what the Mariners have been getting at 1b. Make the move and save his legs. The Cano contract has years to go and will likely be a horrible albatross for the last 2 or 3 years. Keep him healthy and he will hit RHP.
adshadbolt
I wanna know what they gave up Lewis is their only good prospects and they aren’t trading him for dee, maybe Haniger of gamels in the trade.
xfloydsterx
not much likely if we’re taking the salary so Miami doesn’t have to pay him. typically when a salary dump is made like Miami for here, they get very little in return of prospects.
marinersblue96
Looks like a salary purge for Miami. Maybe a low A player.
terry g
Probably not very much if they’re taking on his salary.
rip_plymouth_whalers
Maybe they want to convert Gordon to be a pitcher because
1) They could have TWO dual-threat players in him and Otani
2) They will have Flash Jr.
roberty
It makes me feel so old whenever I am reminded that Dee is the son of Flash Gordon.
weber722
But wait there’s more…Nick Gordon is a shortstop in Minnesota’s minor league system and he’ll likely be a big leaguer in 2018.
jamesess
This makes perfect sense if you’re going to… uh… I got nothin’. This should be interesting.
kenneth cole
I guess he’s gonna play CF now? Cano isn’t moving anywhere unless it’s to 1B or DH and if they move him to DH, they’d need to move Cruz. I think Dyson is a FA so there’s an opening. Heredia 4th OF now with Gamel-Gordon-Haniger in the OF. If they move Cano to 1B, Healy would get most at bats at DH. Cano isn’t a guy you would necessarily platoon.
Very interesting deal, though. If he is moving to CF I’m curious as to how he’d fare there. Decent but not great arm (he’s kinda skinny and lean) but hella range.
chrisduncanfan
Deez gonna flip em for more international signing monies. I think Dipoto really does have scurvy.
If he stays, Cano will be like…”you cano have my position maine!”
chrisduncanfan
Good job Chris, you guessed the international monies
smith_matd
What if Cano moves to 1st??
MHanny17
What about Healy and Cruz
docmilo5
Healy to KC? Cruz 60%/35% DH/RF? That’s only if the M’s get Ohtani.
alt2tab
I️ guess they could move Cano to first. But I️ thought they got Ryon Healy to play there…
MB923
I guess you should update your iOS
docmilo5
They did. Doesn’t mean DiPoto can’t trade him. He does that sort of thing sometimes.
mcase7187
Cano to first or DH
Monty725
Flip him to the Jays!!
cuscus85
Maybe he dealt Segura and is not only taking on Gordon’s contract but Miami’s international bonus money? Miami has like $3 million I think.
Was really hoping the Angels got Gordon.
MHanny17
Maybe Cruz is gone and if they get Ohtani, he and Healy split DH time?
MHanny17
I guess he’s playing center so they’ve got lots of money for pitching
andrewgauldin
I think Dipoto did this because he was afraid the Angels were going to get him, and another way to lure in Ohtani… sad day as a Halos fan.
greatdaysports
Angels after Walker
Travis’ Wood
Cruz is gone after this year and Cano will need to DH more. Awkward fit for a year but look for Dee to move back to 2B next year if he flops in CF.
Frank kemble
.308 last year with 60 sb, 200 hits, 114 runs…great for the offense… CF is best guess… But the way Dipoto trades, hell he could swing someone else for pitching next….. Especially if they do land otahni, they’ll have to find him at bats which would most def lead to someone else moved for pitching. I like the move though. Gives another dynamic to the offense and a veteran piece.
Dock_Elvis
Theres a deal in place for Stanton. The Marlins are shipping Gordon out to help offset a little of the money on Stantons deal to enable a better prospect return. I expect a Stanton deal is imminent. That or Stanton has nixed the trade deals and Miami is moving on.
mrnatewalter
How comical would it be if Stanton gets stuck in Miami? After all this.
Dock_Elvis
Well, maybe he’s dead set on the Dodgers and wants to wait out the buyout on his deal. Seems like SF and StL were his options.
Senioreditor
I agree, it’s about the money. A deal is in the works.
Doug Martin
Stanton to the Giants with current Giant second baseman Joe Panik as part of the package coming back?
The Oregonian
Doug, that would have only made sense if Gordon was coming back to SF with Stanton. Otherwise who plays 2B for them? Arroyo’s been reported to be part of the package, not Panik I don’t think.
socraticgadfly
Cards reportedly have better offer on table. That said, the Marlins may have been sending a bit of a message to Stanton to make a call.
Dock_Elvis
Not sure theres reason to do that at this point…Id assume theyd give him a reasonable amount of time…as would the other teams involved. Im sure it needs to end before the winter meetings though, or teams would have to move on.
Pops
Which means perhaps a deal is in place for either Cano or Gordon to SF for more international signing bonus money…ensuring Otahni to Mariners. Maybe. Perhaps.
Dock_Elvis
SF and Seattle seem to be top finalists, so Im not sure SF is basically going to send money to Seattle to help the pursuit. Gordon? Given DiPotos nature I wouldn’t print his Mariners ball card yet….solid chance he doesnt stay on the roster past the winter meetings.
Yamsi12
Dipoto being Dipoto
FBA17
Master of trades to build a .500 team!
weber722
“Master”
card collector18
That’s a pretty pointless move unless they’re flipping him. I think the Gm is just trade hungry
Dock_Elvis
I think he saw an underutilized asset in the Gordon steal game. This is DiPotos m.o….he gets more flexibility to make deals and he loves speed. It’s like his super-Jarrod Dyson move.
beersy
Is this a deal to go “all in” because they are getting Ohtani or a “we better do something” because they aren’t getting him? Then again, with DiPoto, he could have seen this deal on MLB the Show and thought it was a good idea.
stratcrowder
Bahahaha!!!
Senioreditor
Has any player ever been trade more miles away?
Ry.the.Stunner
Yes, I’m sure somewhere in time, there has been a trade made between the Marlins and the Mariners.
Doing quick research, David Phelps was traded from the Marlins to the Mariners this past summer.
Senioreditor
So no one has been traded farther…..lol
bencole
Plus he came from LA
R.D.
Speak of the dang devil
Rbase
Well, if you count ‘trades’ with Japanese/Korean teams…
card collector18
Jeters listening to Christmas music right now “laughing all the wayyyy” oh what fun it is to ride this one sided dumbass trade hey!
wayneroo
So how is it one-sided? Do you know what they got for him? I didn’t think so.
Dock_Elvis
Salary relief. Game changing speed for probably money. This makes a WHOLE lotta depoto sense.
Twingo
Maybe he’s flipping him to the Brewers for more int’l bonus $$ for Ohtani?
Brixton
They got the Mariners #2 prospect, so it’s a pretty decent trade for both sides imo
cuscus85
That’s Nick Neidert right?
Brixton
yes
Twingo
Yes. It’s confirmed. Ugh. Don’t like giving up NN. There better be more in the works.
yanks02026
Guy aint even top 100, he can’t be that good.
saintchristafa
Why is it so hard for people to see him in CF? Billy Hamilton was a SS. The tools transferred.
mrnatewalter
Hamilton wasn’t 29 when he started playing CF, they developed him at CF. There’s tremendous risk throwing a guy out there as your everyday CF when he’s never even played an inning in the OF in the majors.
Coast1
Robin Yount was 29. Howie Kendrick was 32 when the Dodgers moved him to the outfield. Craig Biggio was 37.
Brixton
and they were mostly bad defenders
davbee
Yount won two gold gloves at ss.
davbee
Check that, only one.
jimmyz
Side note: did anyone see the “Dee Gordon lead the NL in stolen bases 3 of past four years” line and automatically think, doesn’t Billy Hamilton play in the NL?
CardsNation5
It’s says it in the article that he will Be in CF.
outinleftfield
It didn’t at first.
davbee
So maybe people should wait until all the details are in before they weigh in.
reflect
How the hell are people supposed to know whether or not an article will be updated again in the future?
TJECK109
It’s amazing how baseball has become $$$ conscious. Deal a good player who on the FA market would get a fat contract yet get a little return in a trade.
I think Seattle is doing everything to entice Ohtani
Senioreditor
Can they win 5 divisions like the Dodgers, spend like you print it and have the last 2 rookies of the year. That should entice him.
TJECK109
I didn’t say the dodgers weren’t enticing nor did I say this would entice him. I said I think Seattle is doing everything to entice him. Learn how to read.
Win 5 divisions, have the money, last 2 rookies and how many titles during that time do they have again…. go ahead I’ll wait…
Blue_Painted_Dreams_LA
Would he really get a fat contract? 38/3+14 mill option in a 2B saturated market with little need in which his skill set is at the age where we start to see a significant decline? He has no power and is going to be 30. His skill set is somewhat undervalued by the market because of his reliance on his legs and his age. I think he’s pretty much valued correctly. I didn’t really think he’d get more of a package. I think he like Stanton is somewhat of a salary dump. The real meat of their packages and rebuild will come from Ozuna & Yelich.
terry g
Dipoto has already said they plan on using him in center which means they don’t plan on resigning Dyson, nothing more than that. They’d have to make a move like this even if they got Ohtani. Dipoto does not like to add via the FA pool. He’d rather add via trades.
cmancoley
You don’t say!
Thronson5
Wow. Didn’t see this coming at all. Good pick up of the Mariners. I would love to see that team do good and go far this year. Not a Mariners fan but since Griffey Jr I’ve always kind of have wanted to see them succeed. Let’s see what other moves they make and how far they can go. This is a good start I think. Hey need a ace, Felix isn’t what he use to be. Curious to see if they end up getting Othani.
JerryDipoto
I think it’s a smart move
ABCD
lol, i bet you do
cmancoley
He has experience. He played centerfield on his A8 in 2nd grade
Solaris601
Gordon has all the speed of Dyson PLUS a .300 BA and a leadoff hitter. As long as he has the arm to play CF, this was a great move by SEA.
cmancoley
with absolutely 0 power. every single hit is an infield single
24TheKid
Same with Dyson, and I highly doubt every hit was an infield single.
brucewayne
So what would be the difference in his power numbers in CF or 2nd? SO WHAT? It makes no sense!
Zissou
Ill take that from my leadoff. He has led the league in triples before, and is one of the fastest on the base paths.
I think I remember another Mariner leadoff that hit nothing but singles…
Zissou
I’ll just leave these Dee stats here…
29.7 ft/s avg sprint speed in 2017. 4th in MLB, fastest IF (30+ is elite)
119 sub-4 home-to-1st times, most in MLB. Next-most: Billy Hamilton with 65
Best home-to-1st: 3.49 sec, 6th-fastest of 2017
kaido24
weren’t the Giants in on Gordon?
weber722
They were. Looks like they’ll keep Panik.
casey
Million buck in International Pool money also going to the Mariners. I wonder why?
baseballpun
I wonder if that was the driving force behind the trade and if they’ll try and flip Gordon (or trade someone else) if they land Ohtani.
mdbaseball05
It is interesting. I wonder if they heard something from Ohtani where signing bonus would play a factor or if they are just not letting that potentially bite them in the butt. Curious that the Mariners and Angels have both made trades for even more bonus pool money in the last 24 hours.
outinleftfield
It is the latter.
MHanny17
Not Neidert!!!!!
docmilo5
The extra $1M in international money gives the M’s $3.55M. That’s the most out there. This shows Ohtani the M’s are working to get better and get him more $$ today. Whom would you prefer, Neidert or Ohtani?
Cam
A million bucks in international money isn’t going to make a lick of difference when it comes to Ohtani.
lowtalker1
Good move if you didn’t have a future hof with a fat contract at 2nd
Kslaw
I’m going to go out on limb and say you did not read the article.
lowtalker1
Of course I did
How much experience does he have on the outfield ?
yanks02026
I understand the Marlins want to cut salary but they’re giving away good players for basically nothing in return. This 2018 will be one bad team
Coast1
They’ve given away one good player who was pricey.
jdgoat
And will likely be bad at the end of the deal
outinleftfield
The Marlins got a good return headed by the Mariners #2 prospect who becomes the Marlins #1 or #2 prospect.
weber722
Salary dump.
dewssox79
this is about the international pool money
waffles
Exactly
jwp164
Love it if Dee can play CF. More money to spend in free agency (Yu), I’m sure Cain (rumors had it he was a targeted) would probably cost more than what Dee’s salary is.
formerlyz
Not going to lie, I was completely off on Gordon’s value. As a Marlins fan, this is a really good trade for us, especially in these circumstances. Not only did they get rid of his whole contract, but they got a couple of more than decent-good prospects that actually help the organization. The international money doesn’t matter b/c the Marlins wouldn’t have used it anyway
mcmillankmm
Agreed. Seems like a good trade for the Marlins. Sounds like these minor leaguers could be serviceable players in the majors some day and they rid themselves of Gordon’s contract. I don’t think Gordon will end up being worth the 3 years $38 million he’s still owed.
outinleftfield
You are going to like Neidert. a 20-year-old kid who advanced to AA. Sat 94-95 this season. Has 4 pitches he can throw for strikes. A changeup that is already MLB ready, a good curve that will be at least MLB average, and a slider. He doesn’t walk guys and he is a bulldog. He is not the next coming of Fernandez, but he has a high probability to be a #3 or #4 starter that eats innings. As we saw today with the signing of Chatwood, they are very valuable.
pr0ject2501
Cheater.
jeremytk42
Hey you gotta be happy for Nelson Cruz, he’s got a juicin’ partner! Ms are joke.
jdgoat
Yep there’s so many other teams who haven’t acquired or used a PED guy at some point
pr0ject2501
Hehe. Dee was my favorite Dodger for a few years. Broke my little Blue heart.
halofan20
Hey jerry Dipoto, the Angels are not phased my guy.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Why? Thwy have the infield locked. Nevee seen him play outfield. He’s a cheater too
shelteredsoxfan
Seattle also has Nelson Cruz so i don’t think they really care about cheating
walls17
CF what the hell?
timyanks
at least he isn’t going to st louis
jackt
Flip him to Milwaukee for more international bonus money and Corey Ray + lottery ticket prospect.
stretch123
Wow. Very disappointed in the return for Miami, but even more disappointed in losing Dee, even though I knew marlins had to trade him. This trade does feel more like a message to Giancarlo though rather than a true baseball trade for them.
Seattle you got a great player. He will do well in center field in my opinion.
CompanyAssassin
That’s pretty interesting. Hope it works out.
jamesess
I think this calls for an emergency chat! Jeff? Jeff? Jeeeeeefffff!!!
pplama
Marlins are a cautionary tale for anyone who hates their ownership and hopes they’ll sell.
jimmertee
I scout Dee Gordon as a much below average centre fielder. I don`t think it is going to be pretty with him in CF. I can see him being moved to another position on the field or traded again.
brucewayne
You SCOUT? That’s a joke right?
Zissou
I hoped the Ms targeted Gordon from the get go. If CF doesn’t pan out, the Cano to first move is definitely in place. With Gordon atop the lineup, there is finally a real leadoff threat with an extremely potent offense behind him.
tball3
Gordon admitted he needed to work harder on his defense, made it a focus and won GG at 2nd base the next year. His athleticism will make up for lack of reads in the outfield.
Stevil
So, you obviously didn’t hear Dipoto’s comments about his explosive first step and reaction time (top 3) combined with his speed and athleticism.
Those are things scouts take note of.
Kaastious
Mariners save a few bucks not needing to field a Low A team. Are you allowed to literally trade everything not nailed down?
Rbase
Huh, wait, what?
I guess the Mariners are making Gordon into a Juan-Pierre clone. Anyways, its not a bad pickup, certainly if they use the international bonus money well (by signing you-know-who).
BTW, imagine if Ohtani comes over and has to dh, pushing Cruz to RF. That would be a very enticing alignment for opposing teams….
SundownDevil
Dee must be fuming… not only does he have to move across the country after playing at home the past few seasons, but centerfield? Rough. Oh well… it’s his own fault. I have no sympathy for people who’ve done steroids.
outinleftfield
Going from 300 days of sunshine per year to 300 days of rain.
decarabas
I think Seattle gets something like 90 days of rain, and almost none of it during the baseball season.
Dock_Elvis
Funny, but I believe Seattle gets fewer rainy days than Miami…and its more seasonal. Seattle is nice mostly in baseball season. I was there for a week in October, though, and it rained the entire time.
dazedatnoon
soooooo ready for Ohtani and Stanton sweepstakes to be over
macstruts
All known PED users are welcome on the Ms. Now go get Marte as well. I’m glad the Angels got rid of DiPoto.
jdgoat
So because this is the first PED user Dipoto has got, you’re happy he’s not on the Angels anymore?
Brewers39
Cruz for Braun, straight up.
lonestardodger
Guessing this rules out Jon Jay
NOPelicanFangirl696969
Should have tried to get ozuna in the deal
ray_derek
I’m sure they did
bernbabybern
Probably could have had Ellsbury for less, a real CF, had a higher OPS and better sb%.
ray_derek
Uhhhhh, anybody trading for Ellsbury would be doing the Yankees a huge favor. I hope you’re kidding.
bernbabybern
Obviously the contract would be paid down a lot, that’s why I said “for less”.
ray_derek
He has zero value to the M’s
mlb fan
@Bernbaby……the Yankees would give you Jacoby Ellsbury for a ham sandwich if you are willing to take his whole contract, I gurantee you that since Ellsbury lost his CF job last yr and was mostly 4th outfielder until Aaron Hicks got injured……Personally, I do not think any team is interested in acquiring a highly paid, injury prone, older OF in Ellsbury unless at LEAST HALF of his contract is paid off…….
bernbabybern
About half is what I meant.
ray_derek
Not sure why anyone would be interested in wasting a roster spot on him.
justin-turner overdrive
Why not just get Dyson again?
Guess this opens a possibility of moving Cano to 1B in a year if it doesn’t work out. Pulling a Rod Carew style position change!
davbee
$1 Mil in International slot money, that’s why.
GarryHarris
I wonder if the Mariners acquired Dee Gordon in order to keep him from the Angels?
Its kinda like the Yankees acquiring Alex Rodriguez when they already had Derek Jeter.
saavedra
it’s nothing like that…
JKB 2
Teams do not acquire players they do not want and by the way take on his huge contract to keep him from the Angels
JKB 2
Don’t be silly Gary. That is absurd
#LCDad
Could be a an expensive “keep-away” tactic from the Angels….Last time the M’s paid for wheels was Chone Figgins….the rest is history.
tball3
Segura and Dyson last year…and never utter the F word again.
old ranger
Dipoto killing another farm system. He never learns.
Jo Daddy
Interesting. What does this do for the Giants ‘offer’ that included Dee Gordon? Either Stanton said no to the Giants, pocket vetoed all trades so far, or Miami said screw it. I wonder if this is a sign that they are going to rebuild around Stanton.
bernbabybern
Stanton can opt out in 3 years so they better rebuild quick then.
outinleftfield
The Marlins still have time to move Stanton mid-2018 or next offseason or even after that. With that contract, his trade value won’t change much in half a season or even a year.
If Stanton turns down a trade, then it’s a complete tear down for the Marlins. They have no choice because Stanton eats up too much of their payroll.
If Stanton okays a trade then they can start building around a great core of young players in Yelich, Ozuna, Bour, and Realmuto.
mcmillankmm
Any consideration of moving Cano to 1B? Segura then at SS and Gordon at 2B, Seager at 3B. Would be a solid infield if Cano was up for the switch.
mlb1225
Not with Healy at 1B, and Cruz at DH.
cecildawg
Check out Gordons arm on youtube; Matt Kemp challanges Dee Gordon.
imindless
There goes dipoto gutting this teams farm just like he did with the angels. If the mariners dont get ohtani they are gonna look really stupid.
jdgoat
You can’t hit a farm if there’s no good prospects in it
bernbabybern
They kind of have to go for it now.
tball3
And if they land Ohtani he’s a genius.
aff10
Well no, everybody wants Ohtani. If he lands him, he’s extraordinarily lucky, but it’s not like “sell out for Shohei Ohtani” is some sort of ingenuity
docmilo5
Everybody wants Ohtani but there’s only 7 teams that have been interviewed, the M’s have the most money to offer and they probably shown Ohtani they are willing to do whatever it takes to bring him in by getting more and more money for the kid. If the M’s don’t land Ohtani, this is still a decent move. Gordon/Segura in front of Cano/Cruz/Seager/Haniger/Zunino/Healy/whomoever are going to score plenty of runs and play good defense.
Dock_Elvis
Dipoto didnt gut the farm in Anaheim….Moreno did. Dipoto had zip control in that organization. Arte and Mike run that show.
jeremytk42
Coming from someone who lives in Seattle, they’ve looked stupid for years sooooo….
saavedra
This deal only makes sense for SEA if they sign Otani.
jimmertee
And if the Mariners don’t sign otani or get something good with the international money, Dipoto is looking for work elsewhere.
timtim007
Wow! I don’t think he could be going to a city any farther away. Miami is about the farthest SE city, and Seattle is about the farthest NW city. 3300 miles apart.
outinleftfield
They are also polar opposites in culture and weather.
Matty Ice
Throwing from SS, 2B, and the OF is very different. Wait till he gets his arm stretched out, and then we can get an accurate report on it.
aff10
Man, I love the podcast that Dipoto’s got and he’s massively entertaining to follow from a general fan perspective (so selfishly I really hope he keeps his job long-term), but he really might be driving these guys towards a cliff. Ik he wasn’t dealt a great hand from Jack Z, but Seattle could have absolutely no high-level minor-league talent in a year or two with a bunch of aging MLB players on not great contracts. At this point, there’s no reason to stop being so aggressive, because they’re so clearly all- in for now, but they may be looking at one year of James Paxton and a whole lot of nothing else come 2020
mlb fan
@aff10….I watch the Mariners daily on the “at bat” app and I could not agree with you more about everything you said……
Dipoto is very refreshing because he actually will explain his thinking and methology of pulling off deals and doesnt speak in cliches or “GM speak” like most Gms……..I do kind of also think that going for it last year and this might not be the right approach either…….Dipoto is not the one responsible for the long playoff drought Seattle is in so why not give him 3-4 yrs to build a farm, like Theo in Chicago was given?
gorav114
His boldness and transparency is refreshing. Losing Felix for so long set them back.
Benklasner
It was clear when they signed Cano what they’re window would be for better or worse. It will be interesting if they shift gears if/when ohtani signs and go soft reest instead of full teardown after this year. Of course they could just win it all…
outinleftfield
They will look just like the Giants, but without the WS rings.
reflect
Random question that I hope Jeff or someone else can answer.
When a team trades IFA money, does actual money change hands? Like are the Marlins actually sending a million dollars (which I would assume they would not want to do)?
Or is the team really just trading the “allowance”, or the right to spend that money on IFAs?
ABCD
Allowance.
Dock_Elvis
Like Kyle Schwarbers old lady said…its an allowance and theres probably tax implicstions should actual money change hands….that would likely be income and taxed as such.
southi
Does anyone else actually think that the Mariners sent too much back to Miami since Seattle picked up all of Gordon’s contract?
gorav114
mediocre prospects and they probably were competing against a few teams.
rmullig2
I say flip him for Matt Harvey.
matthew102402
People put too much stock into the team’s no. (Insert number here) 2 prospect in the system. The mariners system isn’t all that great. When a scout says Nick Niedert has a low ceiling, and no breaking ball, that’s not good. Just saying. Even as a mariner fan, I felt the return was light for Gordon, honestly. But uh, I’ll take it.
aff10
General consensus on Neidert is low-risk, potential league-average starter because of the poor velocity. It’s not an exciting prospect profile, you’re right, but 6 years of cheap control over a back-of-the-rotation pitcher is pretty valuable.
Gordon’s not all that great honestly, can’t hit much, so much of his value comes from his glove at second. He’s obviously athletic enough to be a really good outfielder, but they’re taking a gamble on his instincts defensively
Zissou
Has anyone even given thought to the offense now with Gordon atop the order? His presence there alone makes this trade more than worth it.
outinleftfield
Wow. 94-95 is poor velocity?
Dock_Elvis
If hes 94-95 without a breaking ball then he’s not much of a rotation piece…he’s a nice back end piece potentially. Velocity isnt everything though….Im not aware if his fastball has any movement at all….does he change speeds at all?
aff10
Who the hell has Neidert sitting 94-95? He’s like 88-92. Even MLB.com, which is most likely to exaggerate a player’s prospect status, says he peaks at 94. Average MLB fastball is 93, so yeah, if he sits 90 and very rarely can get to 93 or 94, he’s got well below-average velocity
aff10
Yeah, I’m not sure why the perception is that he’s a power arm without polish, he’s basically the exact opposite. Low-90’s, great changeup, deceptive delivery, really advanced command. He’s a pitchability guy
Dock_Elvis
Thats the Maddux profile. If he’s pitch to contact itd portend well for him to atleast be a back end innings eater.
outinleftfield
What are you talking about? Neidert is 20 years old and spent the last month of the season in AA. He was the youngest pitcher on the Travelers by 2 years. Do you know how many players 20 years old or younger there were pitching in AA Texas League? 2 and Neidert was one of them. Neidert was also the youngest pitcher on the Modesto team when he was called up to AA.
I could literally post 10 or more links to reputable publications like Baseball America and Baseball Prospectus that touted his curveball this year. Longenhagen of Fangraphs said in a prospect chat this year that Neidert projects to have a 60 FB, a 55 changeup, and a 50 curve ball.
This is a kid that has a very high probability of making the majors as a starter. He does not have TOR stuff, but he has everything else. That high probability of making it to the majors as a starter is why the Mariners gave him an over-slot bonus out of high school.
Dock_Elvis
Interesting. Great fastball…needs that change to match it to make the difference. Kid is 20….why are they rushing his development so quickly? Are his true skills already overshadowing projections? To me thats the kind of guy that a team like KC would take and make a really valuable back end piece out of. Of course, theres a lot of value in developing your own #4’s….then you dont have to pay Mike Fiers 6m.
muskie73
I wish Nick Neidert the best but one source projects the right-hander with a future value of 45 with a 40 fastball that is not projected to get better:
fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=sa874797&p…
Dock_Elvis
He sounds a lot to me like a guy that might never even reach the majors.
manrock
As an O’s fan I know that Seattle trades don’t always end out too great.
jeremytk42
I’ll never forgive them for the Adam Jones deal. It was maddening at the time. Eric Bedard was already injury prone and clearly didn’t care about baseball. People always say the worst Mariner trade in history was Varitek/Lowe for Slocumb but this was worse.
abmarinerjv
Rock on Dipoto!
Phillies2017
Not a bad deal for either side. Seattle is targetting controllable players in an attempt to build a sustainable core and Miami got salary relief and a solid package. Neidert is easily top-3 in the Marlins system now, and while Im not high on Torres, the other kid looks like a decent taxi-squad or middle reliever.
Roasted DNA
Nice move. Looks like they need more Ohtani money which tells you his agent has already given them a number. Gordon will be moved – he’s too valuable to be moved to CF.
Dock_Elvis
Other teams have also acquired bonus pool money….so it doesn’t necessarily mean Seattle has a unique edge.
halofan20
Hey Jerry Dipoto, you can have Dee Gordon PED user, well take Otani. Nice try.