Indications are that the market for Orioles third baseman Manny Machado could wrap up soon, and team president of baseball operations Dan Duquette seemingly confirmed that is indeed the case. The organization does not intend to “focus on that much more after tomorrow,” Duquette told reporters including Roch Kubatko of MASNsports.com (via Twitter). There’s no indication that the injury to Zach Britton will change the club’s plans, though it stands to reason that it could add at least some impetus to the possibility of a trade.
More notes on the third-base market…
- Meanwhile, the Cardinals perhaps have some cause to believe the Blue Jays are willing to consider moving star third baseman Josh Donaldson, per Rick Hummel of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. He suggests there’s some indication from the Jays side that the team isn’t dead-set against a move if it brought back MLB pieces as well as prospect value. To an extent, the Toronto organization has something of the opposite problem that the Cards do: the former needs multiple assets while the latter is loaded with solid players but would like a few premium pieces. Dave Cameron of Fangraphs had posited this sort of scenario a few weeks back.
- While the above-noted third baggers have drawn most of the attention this winter, another — Maikel Franco of the Phillies — has also been chatted about here and there. At present, though, there’s no indication that the Philadelphia front office is willing to give up Franco’s upside when his value has ebbed; indeed, Jerry Crasnick of ESPN.com tweets that a rival executive has been left with the impression the Phils won’t sell low on the talented youngster.
- Though Todd Frazier has played primarily third base in his career, Crasnick also tweets that Frazier has expressed a willingness to move around the diamond in an effort to increase his market. Frazier has experience at first base in the Majors, and Crasnick notes that he’s willing to play some corner outfield as well. Frazier did log nearly 1000 minor league innings at shortstop, though, and there have been previous reports that some clubs believe Frazier can be an occasional option at second base as well. Though Frazier doesn’t have much big league experience elsewhere on the diamond, he’s been long been a plus defender at third base (+26 DRS and +26.1 UZR over the past five seasons combined).
- The Indians are looking at a variety of possibilities now that Carlos Santana has moved on. Per MLB.com’s Jordan Bastian, via Twitter, the club has reached out to free agent Yonder Alonso, who’s one of a few open-market names that has now been linked to Cleveland. The club could yet pursue a rather wide variety of players given the flexibility of some of its internal pieces. It still appears wise to expect that achieving value — rather than just targeting specific players — will be the driving force given the club’s payroll constraints.
STLShadows
I’m just throwing names out there and I have no idea what Toronto wants but does Gyorko, Hudson, Grichuk, and O’Neil sound reasonable? I doubt he gets traded anyways but just curious.
michaelw
If it doesn’t start with Reyes you can forget anything. No one wants St.L Garbage and old has beens.
msjrn509
Not going to get Reyes,Those are excellent without Reyes.Ive watched almost all of Stl games and Reyes is not going anywhere.
fourth_dimension
You must be a Cubs’ fan.
extremecardinalsfan
Reyes lmao
extremecardinalsfan
I would never trade a potential future CYA winner. Yeah, I think he is that good.
twisted laces
An offspring of BG…
RedFeather
Man that’s some bitterness coming out of Toronto ha ha ha
extremecardinalsfan
I think it is coming out of Chicago.
jimmertee
The bitterness in Toronto is becuase the Jays Excutive is not trying to win and not trying to rebuild, They are trying to fill the seats so Rogers can sell the team. It is all about money since Shapiro and Atkins took over.
They may say that they want to compete but their actions say otherwise. They also have mostly very poor professional scouting decisions.
Caseys Partner
Reyes is recovering from arm surgery so he would be the second guy in the trade if the Jays want to gamble. O’Neil and Reyes sounds right.
Donaldson will probably like St. Louis and sign an extension.
STLCards33
Screw that. What a terrible deal
binarydaddy
Donaldson is staying put. He loves the Toronto fan base and they aren’t going to move him with a desire to contend next year. Not happening! #TorontoFan
bluejays12345
Thank you. You are correct. I’m with you 100%
ThePriceWasRight
Horrible. hope you guys cheer for a team out of the playoffs the next 5+ years then.
EndinStealth
If you think it takes Reyes for one year in a season Toronto will not compete then you’re either a true homer or a Cubs fan.
Bank On It
Lmao we aren’t giving up Reyes
illinirog70
Lol Reyes …The Cards would hang up immediately. One year of Donaldson control get real people.
rememberthecoop
Agreed
Kane U.
Haha!! Reyes, yeah…sure!
teddy 3
MichaelW, are you thee Michael Wacha or do you just want to sound like you know what you’re talking about?
Tyler 20
one year of control and youre thinking youre getting more?
RedFeather
I think Grorko, Grichuk, and a pitcher of that level would do it. Take O’Neil out of that equation. Keep in mind he’s only got a year left.
C-Daddy
As a Jays fan I’d be very happy with that. Grichuk and Gyorko are both good, controllable young players. Not sure why people think we’re getting Reyes for a rental.
RedFeather
Right? They are both capable of 30 plus homer’s especially in that park. They can absolutely contend with both those players and can also build too. Bottom line is both teams have what they need.. they just need to do it already.
cards81
No way…Gyorko and Hudson should do it honestly but the Cardinals are desperate so throw in an outfielder to sweeten the deal
EndinStealth
But if it’s Grichuk who cares.
Houston We Have A Solution
Gyorko, Hudson, and Bader make more sense.
Idk why jays would want grichuk who’s got 3 years while bader has 6. Keep O’Neil and throw in a pitching prospect to round it out.
Toronto should be selling Donaldson, Stroman, etc and go into a semi rebuild retooling for a couple seasons
Vedder80
Because they won’t get the 6 of Bader for a rental.
ThePriceWasRight
the jays won’t get bader because this front office is stupid and wants to compete now bit trade their best player. a formula that always works right?
JFactor
It’s too much.
Gyroko isn’t that short of JD’s surplus value one on one.
Gyroko or Wong and Flaherty or Bader for JD is of reasonable value.
ThePriceWasRight
2015 MVP, 2014 and 2016 Top 10. but yeah gyorko is just a little under JD.
jimmertee
Gyorko is half the player of JD. Jays would never trade JD straight-up for him. Keep on dreaming.
iphiii
Too much for a rental
bearcat6
That group is not garbage, especially Gyprko!
wwaoc
You want to give up 4 players for a one year rental who will be 33 when free agent in a year? I would give up Fowler and Wong that is it. Donaldson is over rated and on the wrong side of 32 to go after. Crazy…….
dfinmozarks
No way for a one year rental. It’s true that we still need another impact bat, another good starter and a quality closer if the Cards are going to compete well in post season play. Why is our F.O. sitting pat on our modest improvements when we lost Lynn, Duke, Nicasio, Rosenthal, Oh and Piscotty and we know Waino is fading fast?? We also are still sitting on a surplus of ML ready outfield talent that we can’t use. Sure seems like waiting around is not in our best interests if our team leaders want to win again… at least win like the fans are used to from our team.
STLShadows
I’m just throwing names out there and I have no idea what Toronto wants for JD but does Gyorko, Hudson, Grichuk, and O’Neil sound reasonable? I doubt he gets traded anyways but just curious.
STLShadows
Oops sorry for the double post
timtim007
I thought that looked familiar lol. The Cardinals are not going to gut the farm for a one-year rental. The only way they would give up decent prospects is if they have already talked to Donaldson and he is interested in an extension. I think O’Neil has alot of upside. Right now he strikes out a lot but he also is hitting a lot of home runs in Triple-A.
I think grichuk has the most upside of any of them, but who knows if he will ever be able to capitalize on his upside. He does strike out a lot, but he hits some really long long home runs also. I think if the right hitting coach got a hold of him the sky would be the limit and obviously the Cardinals hitting coach is not helping him imo.
wwaoc
NO NO NO NO Donaldson.. 20 million for one year rental on the wrong side of 32……NO NO NO unless they want Fowler and his contract and throw in the superstar Wong so we can play someone that can hit at 2nd. Oh well feeling in the giving mood though in Cecil and his contract….
dfinmozarks
Wong hit better than most other ML 2nd basemen last year after getting it into his head that he’s a better asset getting on base with a high BA and a very good OBP than he is swinging for the arch on every pitch. He’s also improved on defense. He’s also under control for 4 more years for a reasonable contract. If we’re going to give up on him we better get a guy who is a star at 2nd.
timyanks
grichuk isn’t getting traded. neither is reyes. or bader, or oneil. or hudson. not for a rental
ThePriceWasRight
than good luck selling your fan base on another 2nd or 3rd place finish. A former MVP and 2 time top 10bin voting is worth a minimum of 2 of those players
dfinmozarks
He would be if we could get him for a 3 year contract. We can’t and shouldn’t and won’t give up 3-4 key players or prospects for a 1 year rental and Moz won’t do it.
We don’t need a real masher either now that we’ve added Ozuna. Give us a guy like Abreu or a guy like Bruce who we can count on for 30 or more bombs and close to 100 RBI’s and our offense will be set. Then we need to work on defense and get some pitching if we’re going to compete again with teams like LAD, NYY ASTROS, or CUBS. The Astros showed everybody that pitching is the key in October. How many big bombers do they have?
jayssaskatchewan
There would need to be significant assets going the other way or there won’t be a trade. A Donaldson extension is also possible and could be a condition of the trade. The Jays did that with Dickey….
CompanyAssassin
If the Jays are willing, they should try for Donaldson. Normally im against rentals at all, but I think they’d have a decent chance at donaldson, unlike machado. He has the bat, decent to good defense. But the biggest thing would be the perfect fit with Ozuna, and I think that may help him sign. This is coming from a guy who was very anti-donaldson. But after looking at some stats more closely, I think its worth the risk.
santosPinkyToe
I wouldn’t trade him unless they received a can’t resist offer. Wait till the deadline when someone will overpay.
Codeeg
And if he gets injured? Plays poorly? Plus his trade value decreases midseason (helping 162 games vs 70 and no QO)
ThePriceWasRight
yeah wait to the deadline. the market for a 3b is already small but narrow it more and take on the risk of injury. you sure this isn’t Dan Duquette?
timyanks
don’t the jays already have donaldson? but they need to rent him?
EndinStealth
It’s gotta be some new sabremetric
robertj53086
Let’s hope that do something rather than sit on their hands
robertj53086
Cause A Voigt/Martinez platoon at 1B and Carp at 3B isn’t competitive enough for first place
timyanks
carpenter isn’t taking third from jedd
robertj53086
They keep saying that they want Jedd as a super utility guy
billydaking
Cardinals aren’t among the “they” who have said that. In fact, about a month ago, they told Carpenter, not Gyorko, to prepare for playing multiple positions in 2018 when it looked like they were pursuing Hosmer.
Gyorko is their third baseman for now.
iphiii
3rd place if u don’t get pitchers and go with that
msjrn509
Jordan Hicks,Grichuk,L.Weaver.2 excellent starters and a guy who can hit 30 Hr,who is improving after being sent down to Memphis last year.
RedFeather
No way. That’s enough to get Machado for a year.
CompanyAssassin
Not for a year of donaldson. The Cardinals won’t allow a trade including reyes or weaver, they’re pretty much vital to the equation. It’d probably look more like grichuk, hudson, gyorko, and maybe a lower half, org 30, pitcher. Its only a year, they won’t spend the resources on it.
fmj
massive overpay for a one year rental. nowhere near a realistic trade.
4wards
Personally if he want sign an extension I don’t want him,sign Hosmer move Carp back to 3rd.
extremecardinalsfan
YES! I have been saying this too. Then you lose nothing and gain a good lefty in the order. That and dude is a gold Glover I believe. Just think he wants more than he is worth at the moment.
stl_cards16 2
If you’re such an extreme fan, you should learn more about the players.
Hosmer would cost a ton of money to not move the needle. Hosmer/Carpenter isn’t any better that Carpenter/Gyorko.
extremecardinalsfan
Said he wants more than he is worth. He would have to take less, I would just not give the guy what he wants. Hosmer/ Carpenter way better than Carpenter/Gyrko.
Homser = All-Star, 4x Gold Glove, Silver Slugger. Has hit around .300 for the majority of his career.
Gyrko = Slightly more power, but at least he batted over .250 for the first time in his career last year. @ .272.. Strikes out all the time,
Did you look at their stats before attacking my comment out of nowhere?
You are living in a different reality if you think Gyrko is comparable to Hosmer. I am sure when Gyrko is a free agent, he will be getting just as much interest as Hosmer has been getting this year lmao. You need to learn more about players if you are going to come at people when you are wrong.
billydaking
If you would not give Hosmer what he wants, he’ll sign with somebody who will.
Carpenter was moved from 3rd base to 1st base because his defense at third has deteriorated to the point where it became a liability. The Cardinals went into 2017 without a third baseman locked in rather than simply playing Carp there.
dfinmozarks
Hosmer just had 1 good year at the perfect time and his agent is pushing to get 200MM for him? Never happen. His career best year on offense was one 25 HR year. He’ll be lucky to get 140 for a 7 year contract. More likely he gets 100MM for 5 years. I think KC will give him that.
Donaldson is an average 3rd base at best. JD Martinez is weak at best. We need solid all around good players not good hit no field guys. Our weakness is our defense and weak BP. If we spend big it better be for someone like Wade Davis or Greg Holland or Kelvin Herrera.
timyanks
why carpenter at third, when jedd is much better?
btharveyku08
Hosmer will cost way too much for what he’ll provide, and Carp’s defense plays even worse at third than first.
matthew_lepp
defensive liability everywhere?
timyanks
even running the bases
iphiii
3rd place
extremecardinalsfan
Flaherty, Kelly, Wacha, Gyrko Two others of lesser value. Give us Donaldson and Stroman and just be done with it. I can’t take it anymore.
cards81
Not a bad idea but minus Flaherty and replace with Hudson
extremecardinalsfan
ok, even better!
CompanyAssassin
You won’t get Stroman without Flaherty, in that deal. The jays already don’t want to move him, so they’d probably just demand reyes/weaver, which the Cardinals won’t go for.
jimmertee
Stroman is going nowhere, the Jays aren’t trading him. Period.
jaysrule1399
He is likely one of very few the Jays would say no to.
slider32
It’s amazing to me that nobody is giving a good package for Machado!
dynamite drop in monty
That’s what she said.
oriolesravenstimberwolves04
You are a failure
iphiii
Haha
Priggs89
Unless something crazy happens, it’s for 1 year of Machado, and he’s coming off a down year. He also wants to move to a position where most contending teams are already set. I really don’t find it all that surprising…
badco44
What for? You get him for one year and they want two SP’s in return? Really, just a little steep
fungie
Donaldson is the type of player we’re looking for, but I hope we don’t pay that much for a 32 year old player with 1 year of control.
thadimus
Flaherty, Carpenter, grichuk for Donaldson then finish up by signing Hosmer
RedFeather
Seriously? These hypothetical trades are ridiculous. That’s a huge overpay for Donaldson.
timyanks
not too ridiculous, best move is getting rid of carpenter
iphiii
Amen
Caseys Partner
Matt Klentak has a secret plan, he’s going to sign Manny Machado and move Maikel Franco to CF.
Pax vobiscum
Third slowest player on the team behind Rupp and Joseph…Franco will be the second coming of Aaron Rowand. Loving it
Caseys Partner
Hoskins can’t run either. Not sure Franco is slower.
jimmertee
To echo a previous post, let’s hope the Jays don’t sit on their hands and do nothing. For example, at the trade deadline in 2017 the Jays had an offer of a very good prospect for Bautista and they turned it down. Dumb.
My patience is wearing thin with Atkins. It is almost time to fire him.
jaysrule1399
Amen
Franx
What? Where did you see this? I can’t find anything on what you’re talking about… Bautista, the guy who had a worse average then KP, and someone offered a good prospect for him? Calling bull right now
jimmertee
NO bull about a very good prospect for Bautista, I know someone in the room. you won’t find it in the media. It happened as stated. The only thing reported in the media was Atkins admitted he has 15 deals on the table and the 2017 trade deadline and decided to do none of them, One of those deals was as I mentioned.
sals029
The Os were never serious about trading Manny.
extremecardinalsfan
or the cards may be spreading this to try and get the O’s to weaken a little for Machado.
timyanks
trading part of the farm and/or current major league players for a rental wouldn’t improve st louis. just leave jedd at third.
4wards
Gyrko is a platoon guy tried him last year everyday guy wore out at the all star break and Hosmer is a better hitter fielder n player
extremecardinalsfan
This, I don’t even know how some here compare the two. Blows my mind… Many Gyrko lovers here I guess.
billydaking
Because they play two different positions. You’re not replacing Gyorko with Hosmer, because they’re not moving Carpenter back to third. He can no longer play the position on an everyday basis.
dfinmozarks
Carp can’t play 3rd on an any day basis. He’s below average at 1st, worse at 2nd, terrible at 3rd. If we keep him we play him at 1st where his liability with a weak arm, stone glove and limited range are minimized. All that said, I do like him gutting it out and playing when he’s plainly hurting. I sure wish some of that would rub off on Fowler. He’s hurt all the time. Only played 118 games last year and how many of those were in PH appearances? We need him to get fixed or get him traded. His fragility was obvious from his record. He’s only averaged about 120 games a year the past 5 years. Why our F.O. gave him such a juicy contract is astounding.
GarryHarris
There aren’t any free agent 1B options that improve the Indians. Their system is versatile enough to replace Carlos Santana. Among possibilities, they can move Jason Kipnis, Lonnie Chisenhall, Yandy Diaz or even platoon their catchers o 1B to make room for Francisco Mejia.
kiddhoff
C. Kelly, Grichuk and a pitching prospect will probably get Donaldson
iphiii
Too much- 2players
gorav114
Frazier might be a good fit with Os if he’s willing to move to 2nd. Schoop goes back to 3rd and Manny gets to play SS. Beckham as the utility infielder. Especially if Frazier can handle corner outfield duties too so Beckham can get enough at bats and keeping Trumbo at DH
ThePriceWasRight
why wouldn’t Frazier just play 3b and Manny SS? why move Schoop at all?
ThePriceWasRight
a trade that could work for both.
gyorko, bader, Hudson, Flaherty for Donaldson, Osuna
jimmertee
lol, why suggest trades like that? There is no way that the Jays are trading Osuna. At the moment him, Stroman, Pillar are untouchable.
ThePriceWasRight
jimmertee you and i see eye to eye on this rebuild and in my opinion, IF they do rebuild like they should, keeping Osuna doesn’t make much sense.
with RP you max out their return and I feel Osuna is not going to get better. The Cards are a team with a need at RP and the jays can use this to get a package that could help them get more talent.
if you rebuild is a need for Osuna who is already showing some issues really a need to keep around.
it’s a hypothetical trade but one that could work for both sides. honestly I debated including kelly but the cards fans on here would have a hissy fit.
jimmertee
Osuna would be worth a boatload of prospects in a trade.
Solaris601
Peter Angelos will keep Machado. Never one to trade away stars even if keeping them is to the detriment of the organization’s near future. If the O’s were sincere about being competitive in the AL East next year they would have acquired at least one upper tier SP by now, but they still have 3 vacancies in their rotation and no apparent irons in the fire.
jordantm2021
Ok reading all these comments has got me thinking.
The cardinals should trade Jedd, Grichuk, Hudson and Gomber for Donaldson.
Then trade Carpenter, Flarherty, Mayers, and Voit for Colome
Then try to sign LoMo to play first base to platoon with Martinez
jonsteele
I like the first trade idea it’s probably fair for both sides if the Cardinals can swallow the fact they might only get 1 year out of JD. But that’s about what Toronto would want.
The 2nd offer is too much imo. if that’s the asking price I would throw money at Reed or Wade Davis and save my OBP machine carpenter and #2 pitching prospect Flaherty.
jordantm2021
Jc what would you package for Colome after that first trade.
ThePriceWasRight
add hicks to that jays offer and it’s a deal.
CubsRebsSaints
Schwarber, Russell, and prospects for Stroman and Donaldson
Bryant to LF
???? I love this but haven’t heard why it isn’t a thing
Oh and move Baez to SS
Dean Cull
Cards fans are dreaming if they think the Jays are not asking for Reyes for starters. He is still just a prospect. Donaldson is the type of player that will put a team over the top. Good defensively patient at the plate with power to all fields as well as a clutch clutch hitter. The Cards will not trade for Donaldson unless he’s willing to sign an extension. If they do trade for him then the Cards lineup goes from good to scary!
dfinmozarks
Donaldson wouldn’t put us over the top. He didn’t do it for the Jays. We need pitchers, pitchers, pitchers! Probably 1 more good starter and at least 2 good ones in our BP.. A Wade Davis, or a G. Holland as a stopper plus a Colome or a Hand as a setup guy if we’re going to compete in the post. We also need to pray our coaches can clean up our terrible defense. If they can’t we won’t even make it to the post. It’s frankly amazing how poor our defense got in the last 3 years- compared to the stellar play our fans were used to. Wong needs to improve some more – he did improve in 2017. DeJong needs to develop a softer glove, Gyorko is our best and Carp is our worst. Fowler is well below average in CF – can he improve in a corner spot? Pham and Ozuna were both good last year – can Pham do as well in CF?
Lots of room for defensive improvement – and badly needed.
Cardinals17
The Cardinals Mozeliak is now back to his old ways. Ozuna will be the only upgrade. Carpenter and Wong will still be catered to so it won’t hurt their feelings, no matter what. Thus, if there are no trades from the 2017 starting line up, the 2017 line up will be the same in 2018. Ozuna for Piscoty. Mozeliak is Mozeliak. He’ll make noise until February but that’s all it will be, noise and excuses.