Phillies owner John Middleton believes that his team is ready to start winning again, Mike Sielski writes in an article for Philly.com. It appears as though the franchise is actively looking to end its five-year run of fourth- and fifth-place finishes, based on some of Middleton’s comments about their budget and spending plans. Here’s what he had to say following a news conference introducing recent signee Carlos Santana.
Yeah, I think we’re close. They came to us with a budget, and we said, ‘Guys, if you want to put that number in for the budget, that’s fine, but don’t live with that. If something comes up, and it breaks the bank relative to the budget, and you don’t pursue it, we’re going to be upset.’ And they know that.
Sielski writes that Middleton wants to spend money, and doesn’t want the “small-market, too-thrifty label that the franchise slapped on itself a generation ago.” Middleton certainly isn’t the type of owner that has tremendous patience for losing, but the piece sheds some light on how he views the team’s rebuilding process. In a colorful analogy, he compares the team’s progress to a duck swimming on top of water. While the Phillies haven’t been making much progress on the surface, there’s certainly been a furious process underneath that’s not visible to the public eye.
A large part of that process has come in the way of a typical rebuild for a baseball team: trade away current major-league assets for future potential, accept a losing record and the high draft picks that come with it, and be patient throughout the process while focusing efforts on the development of future stars. But another significant part of the club’s rebuild has come in the form of a transformation of the way the club operates. As Sielski notes, the team has focused on creating and maintaining a successful analytics department.
Indeed, the organization has made some changes to their front office in recent years that reflect a shift in baseball philosophy. For example, in January of 2016, the club gave major promotions to two analytically-minded members of its staff. Scott Freedman, who was hired as a baseball analytics manager in 2013, was made director of baseball operations. They also promoted talented analytics intern Lewis Pollis, then 23 years old, to a a full time role in baseball research development. Pollis is a graduate of Brown University whose senior thesis on MLB front office personnel was published by the Society for American Baseball Research (SABR) and widely-read throughout the baseball industry.
The above moves and more are evidence of Philadelphia’s “underwater” moves to push the club towards sustainable success for the long-term. It seems as though Middleton’s comments and the Santana signing are major signals that the Phillies are ready to come out the other side of their rebuild. Budding stars such as Rhys Hoskins, Aaron Nola, Jorge Alfaro and others look primed to lead the club towards a winning season at long last, and a number of highly-touted prospects in the club’s farm system should keep them in contention for years to come. As Sielski points out, the timing is great for them; the Marlins are entering a full teardown of the major league roster, the Mets appear unwilling to spend big, and the Nationals may be nearing the end of their window of contention. Even the Braves, who are beginning to look good at the MLB level, just watched their farm system and front office get thrown into disarray after former GM John Coppolella circumvented MLB’s international signing rules.
Perhaps most significantly, Middleton describes the asking prices for Chris Archer and Gerrit Cole as “an arm and a leg.” While fact that the Rays and Pirates are asking a lot for their starting pitchers doesn’t come as a surprise, the news that the Phillies GM Matt Klentak has been involved in discussions for those players points to a genuine desire to get back in the mix for an NL East pennant. It’s clear that an acquisition of Archer or Cole would involve giving up significant assets for a major-leaguer with only two years of team control remaining. Of course, it’s easily possible that inquiries on these pitchers were simply due diligence, but a particular quote from the conference suggests that the Phillies would move on one of them at the right price. “I’ve got a deal over here, and it’s a bad deal,” Middleton said, quoting Klentak “I think if I tweaked it this way, it would be a good deal. I’d be willing to do this deal, not their deal.”
I recently noted in MLBTR’s offseason outlook for the Phillies that their rebuilding process had begun to bear fruit and that they looked to be on the rise. But signing Santana to a three-year deal and exploring trades for pitchers who become free agents after 2019 both reveal an aggressive, win-now mindset. With this information in mind, the rest of the offseason carries an added level of suspense for Phillies fans. It will be fascinating to see what other moves they make in an attempt to add wins in the short term.
mlb1225
I can already hear Casey’s Partner typing a comment right now.
dirtydan
^^
hawaiiphil
He loves John m
Pax vobiscum
He has never been seen at the same time and in the same place as John Middleton..hmmm
vlad4hof
Mhm. John Kruk said during the Sixers telecast that he thinks Hoskins is a better fit in LF than at 1B…if Caseys Partner heard that he probably had a stroke
Coast1
Hoskins was never regarded as a good fielding 1B in the minors. He wasn’t as bad as Tommy Joseph or Ryan Howard, but he wasn’t a plus fielder. Hoskins works hard, so the hope was that he’d develop into an okay fielder there. Now the hope is he’ll do it in left. I have no problem with Hoskins out there.
On the other hand, Crawford is a wizard at short and I was bothered when they moved him to third. He did great there too, but I’d rather have him at short.
Kayrall
He was my first thought at this article’s title too.
beard
Seems a bit pre-mature to think the Phillies are ready to compete just by adding some big contracts. They’ve got a lot of good young players coming up through the system but they still have holes pretty much everywhere. I would have guessed 2020 would be the earliest they could realistically compete for the division.
seillihp
I think they were always targeting the good free agent class of 2018-2019 and Santana is like the starting gun to start adding more external pieces. If they get one, preferably two, good starters they should be able to move to around .500. Seems like a big jump but the lineup was a lot better in the second half with the top prospects starting to play. Do that all year and figure 5-7 more wins. Bullpen upgrades 4-6 wins, 1 starter 3-5 more wins. 2 starters 6-10 more wins. That’s 12-23 more wins, or 78-89 total. On the low/conservative side I think the additional starting pitcher would be the difference between .500 and below .500 with only one.
beard
I dont doubt that they will be better next year and better again the year after. But enough of their future ‘cornerstone’ players have big question marks (Herrera, Velasquez, Crawford, Franco, etc..) its hard to see when they will turn the corner from progressively better to legitimate contender. I predict is still going to take a couple years at least. Its a little surprising to see them checking in / signing guys with 2 year contracts. However, I guess you have to show good progress to be able to reel in the big fish down the line.
Coast1
Herrera has played three seasons and has averaged 3.4 WAR per season. He’s definitely not a question mark. They do have some players like Franco who have disappointed, but many of their players haven’t played enough to be called a question mark.
The Twins had a lot of question marks going into 2017, just as the Cubs did going into 2015. You’ll always have question marks. If you do nothing until you no longer have question marks, you’ll never have enough good players.
prich
I believe!!! Hoskins 30/100 with .270 avg. Williams gets .270 with 20/95. Santana leads the way with .380 on base and 100+ games as the third baseman and bats leadoff the whole season. Nola finishes top 10 Cy Young. Phillies are still a year away, but always nice to dream.
Justink1996
Carlos Santana will be playing 1st
Dark_Knight
Santana’s playing first. Franco’s going to play 3rd until he falters and at that point Hernandez or Kingery would play there until the end of the season.
prich
Franco has faltered for 2 full seasons. Santana will be playing multiple positions
jorleeduf
No, Santana is playing first
PhanaticDuck26
at any rate, he has one more shot. maybe not even a full shot. i agree with dark, if Franco’s still struggling half way through, Kingery will likely begin to take his place at 3B.
prich
Kingery was so good at second base in the minors, he is a guy that you don’t move around. Kingery will get a lot of attention for his glove
Kayrall
The only one of those I think is realistic is Nola.
thegoat2531
Phillies truthfully have it going pretty good, still a year or two away from being talked about as contenders. They might surprise some people this year though and possibly finish third in that division, maybe even second ??? Lol
seamaholic 2
Nice that the owner is pumped. Don’t see the rebuild going all that well though. Nola’s great, yeah. Hoskins had a Trevor Story like half season but let’s see if he can sustain it, and now he’s playing out of position. JP looks like a decent-nothing-special SS. Santana was a big overpay and 32 years old. I like where Braves, Padres and Reds are better, except that Phils have bigger market.
Jimcarlo Slaton
Hoskins is a much more selective hitter than Story.. I don’t get how they can assume he’ll be fine as an everyday left fielder.. They did overpay for Santana. That’s how you get good players to play for your sub .500 team, I guess. I’d like the signing a little more if he wasn’t 32.
T_Rexx2
They have the money, and that was the only way they could get him to sign for less years.
Coast1
John Middleton used to have Dave Montgomery as the team president and Monty’s solution to everything was to spend more money on players. So he hired Andy MacPhail. He knew he was getting a cautious president who didn’t like to spend money. He didn’t give out big long contracts in Baltimore. Last year MacPhail wasn’t going to spend money and Middleton told him he had to. So they spent $65 million on players who didn’t help them win and had little trade value. Middleton hired a cautious guy. He knew what he was getting.
This year they’ve spent half that on three players who should do more to help them win. I’d rather spend $20 million on Santana than spend it on Saunders and Kendrick.
Last year the Twins went from 59 wins to 85 wins. The Cubs went from 73 to 97 in 2015. Some bad team is likely to add 20+ wins to their total. I don’t know which team it’ll be but it’s likely to be one that makes moves to win games rather than one that doesn’t. They might not make the playoffs this year with Santana but they certainly wouldn’t without him.
Cat Mando
Agreed. RAJ took a lot of heat as GM, some of it deserved, but a lot was Monty.
I really don’t think The Phillies are done signing/trading. Santana caught everyone by surprise and I think there are 2 more coming. 1 quality SP and 1 more bat (especially if they have to trade from the roster for that SP).
Also think Santana is a short term insurance policy in case Franco doesn’t turn it around or Hoskins has a sophomore slump. Either Hoskins was tired the last few weeks last year or pitchers found (as they tend to do) his weaknesses. Will be interesting to see how he adapts.
Coast1
Amaro was only carrying out Monty’s plan. They won the World Series in 2008 and so they kept bringing in big ticket guys like Halladay, Lee, Pence, Ibanez, Byrd, and Burnett. Fortunately, Monty resisted giving long term deals. Throw more money at the problem.
Santana won’t play third, so he’s not insurance for Franco.
Pitchers started pitching Hoskins outside and, according to the MLB.com tracker, they were having remarkable success hitting the outside part of the plate for strikes. Hoskins didn’t adjust. Of course, pitchers couldn’t throw every ball outside. When they pitched him inside he was no longer getting the good swings he had earlier. That’s definitely on Hoskins.
Cat Mando
Coast……Not suggesting Santana will play 3rd ( should have made that clear). His bat is the insurance/back-up incase Franco doesn’t turn around and Hoskins doesn’t adjust. He is also a “Thome” move.
bbatardo
Phillies somewhat confuse me since they took a step back last year and adding Santana without much else doesn’t scream ready to compete. Not to mention he is 32 and won’t help through entire rebuild.
Pax vobiscum
He’s not supposed to.
schmenkman 2
They only took a step back in total wins and losses, but much of that was luck, and they were also a different team in the second half.
Their run differential and pythagorean projection improved by 10 games from 2016 to 2017.
And the second half team included new call-ups Nick Williams, Rhys Hoskins, Jorge Alfaro, and JP Crawford, and were went 37-38 after the ASB.
phutility
Sielski writes that Middleton wants to spend money, and doesn’t want the “small-market, too-thrifty label .
Phils owner Middleton talks a good game but dont listen to what he says watch what he does. The past 6 years the Phils owner has taken a hatchet to the Phillies payroll and talent reducing it into dust.
The Phillies owners have historically always been about the bottomline. They dont like losing money and the past 6 years have been about getting the books turned around. In the same year(2016) the Phils lost 99 games they led MLB in Operating Income ($80M) They will come close to duplicating that $80 M profit this past year(2017) . IMO That is what has led to Phils owners finally loosening of the purse strings.
Phils owner Middleton hasnt suddenly had an awakening rather hes had a couple box office busting seasons financially.
schmenkman 2
Yes, the Phillies were the most profitable team in MLB last year, but winning is more fun (and also profitable).
herecomethephillies2018
You should read the actual article, not just this summary, before wasting time writing a response like that. They’ve been in a rebuild, which was their best option for sustained success. Most importantly, they were patient during the rebuild and didn’t give into temptation to spend money on big names just for the publicity. Now they’re stacked at every level of the minors with about $100M or more in payroll space…I’d be scared if I was the rest of the league right now.
Coast1
The team spent a lot of money the last few years under Montgomery. They were top 3 in payroll from 2011 to 2014. And what did it get them? Terrible teams. So Middleton replaced Montgomery with the more frugal MacPhail. The team went into a rebuild and, of course, the payroll dropped.
Going into 2017 the Phillies were looking at having the lowest payroll. Middleton was horrified. The fans were going to think they were frugal. So he ordered MacPhail to have Klentak bring in vets. So the Phillies embarked on the stupidest spending spree I’ve ever seen. They took several players (Buchholz, Kendrick, Neshek) whose teams were desperate to give the players away and were the only team that’d take 100% of the salary. I’m sure the other teams would’ve eaten some but then the Phillies’ payroll would be lower.
They then overpaid some free agents and gave Jeremy Hellickson a qualifying offer. He made $17 million last year. He probably would’ve gotten $10 million on the open market. This year he’ll get $4 million.
It felt like MacPhail and Klentak were trying to show Middleton that spending money didn’t help teams because the results were, predictably, awful.
phutility
I did read the article, I have lived the article as a Phillie fan the past 6 painful years.
What you and Middleton call a patient rebuild I would call a systematic dismantling of a very talented baseball team in a great baseball market.
herecomethephillies2018
They’ve modeled their rebuild off the Houston Astros rebuild, which was long and painful but was the only way to have multiple high prospects at each level in order to ensure sustained success while giving them ammo for high profile trades when the time is right.
Systemic dismantling? You’re right, Phillies fans would have LOVED not signing Utley, Howard, or Rollins to extensions. They would have welcomed trading away their core just months after Doc’s no-hitter against the Reds in the NLDS instead of signing Cliff Lee to a below-market deal, a deal which I don’t remember a single Phillie fan complaining about at the time btw. 2012 was supposed to be a competitive year for them, and by the time they realized their window had passed it was too late to get any value out of anyone not named Cole Hamels. The rebuild only started in earnest halfway through 2013 with a bottom third farm system and half a dozen dead contracts totaling over $100M. Now they’re looking at a clear payroll and a top 5 farm system with 4 of their top prospects about to have play in their first opening day.
I just think fans need to be realistic about how difficult a task they had on their hands, and 4.5 years isn’t too shabby for turning over the roster from a bunch of old overpaid has beans with no farm system to a young promising lineup with a top 5 farm with over $100M in payroll space right before the greatest free agent market in the history of the game is due. We’ve seen longer runs of losing than this with no light at the end of the tunnel. 6 years of losing? Haha if you think 6 years of losing seems long to you then you haven’t been a Phillies fan for that long.
brucebochyisthemarlboroman
Sometimes you gotta spend money to make money. Also the best laid plan can always be attributed to Caseys Partner and his desire to tank every season for the first overall pick in the draft. I can’t get enough of that plan.
Caseys Partner
Since 2011 you’ve had that plan once.
Six years of losing and rebuilding and the Phillies have picked first once.
Epic Fail
herecomethephillies2018
They were rebuilding in 2012? After 5 straight division titles? I must have missed that headline.
4.5 years to completely turnover a roster with a $180M payroll with a bottom 5 farm system into one with $100M to spend and a top 5 farm is the definition of a solid rebuild. You young fans have a lot to learn about this game if you expect a task like that to take less time.
Caseys Partner
” I must have missed that headline.”
The headlines were a big lie.
Fake News
On July 31, 2012 Shane Victorino and Hunter Pence were unloaded for crap. Both went on to help other teams win three World Series, one in Boston and the other two in San Francisco.
The only thing left from those two deals is Tommy Joseph whose presence has cost the Phillies Carlos Tocci.
herecomethephillies2018
The Phillies had an open spot on the 40 man roster for Tocci, they could have protected him if they wanted to.
I’m tired of you already. If you want to eat sour grapes and complain your life away about your team then be my guest. If your goal is to be known as “the bitter Phillies fan on the mlb trade rumors comments section” then you have succeeded. Your parents must be overwhelmed with pride. Keep shooting for the stars!
schmenkman 2
They did start a “soft rebuild” in July 2012, hoping to retool and remain competitive while they restocked the farm.
So they stopped signing long term FAs and stopped trading away prospects.
And that plan may have worked if Howard returned anywhere close to pre-achilles performance, if Halladay and Lee hadn’t imploded, if Dom Brown became anything like all the scouts thought he would become.
And so after the 2014 season they went all-in on the rebuild.
Caseys Partner
It was a deceptive rebuild. They told the public they were not rebuilding. They stated emphatically that they were trying to win the division. It was the players, first Cliff Lee and then Jonathan Papelbon who publicly voiced their displeasure with the lack of incoming talent that was clearly necessary if they wanted to contend.
The stands were full as they are in San Francisco. The Giants just got Evan Longoria to fill a gaping hole at 3B. The Phillies replaced Victorino and Pence with Ben Revere and Delmon Young.
The Giants are embarking on a stupid path given where they are at. The Phillies John Middleton ran a balls out scam on the Phillies fan base.
schmenkman 2
ok
Caseys Partner
” the team has focused on creating and maintaining a successful analytics department”
Nothing screams analytics more than moving a 1B/DH only guy to LF. The FanGraphs crew has been churning out article after article describing the move of Rhys Hoskins to LF as pure genius, something they never looked for themselves until the move was made, but now that it has the site is overflowing with articles packed with colorful graphs and blinking gifs and math formulas that would make Ted Kaczynski’s head spin.
If a Klaw Chat takes place tomorrow I have no doubt it will be dominated by Law’s genuflection at the analytical genius of sending a guy who runs like Yadier Molina, drops fly balls that he gets his glove on and possesses the throwing arm of a ball girl.
The only good thing about this Phillies winter is that no one will have any doubt at the conclusion of the 2018 season that the Phillies only shot at making the playoffs in 2019 is signing both Harper and Machado.
PRAY that Mitch Moreland flops badly in Boston and Santana can be flipped there in June.
herecomethephillies2018
The guy played 3 games in LF before playing it in the majors and still had a -1 DRS and a 0.1 UZR. That’s not an easy task at any level, let alone in the majors. Don’t get me wrong, he’s no Willie Stargell out there, but to say he’s Yadier Molina in left is a poor analysis for someone who performed average defensively at a brand new position. That was enough to show the front office that with an entire offseason of practice he can adjust adequately in LF for the long term.
Don’t forget, the Phillies won a World Series with Pat Burrell and Raul Ibanez in LF…I think you’re placing a bit too much importance on the defensive impact of a left fielder in one of the smallest outfields in all of baseball.
Caseys Partner
How old are you? When was the last time you had a medical exam focused on your cognitive responses?
herecomethephillies2018
Do people have medical exams focused solely on their cognitive responses? Your attempts at insults are pathetic.
schmenkman 2
Hoskins isn’t a great defensive first baseman, and some scouts think he fits better in LF anyway.
DannyQ3913
Trust the Process
Regi Green
Leave Joel Embiid out of this
fighterflea
Middleton can talk about spending money, tomorrow, next week or next century but the Phils are saddled with an inability to identify or develop star quality starting pitching. An interesting question would be who/when among Phils starting pitching were drafted or signed to a first pro contract ever got named to an All Star team. I’m talking about in the last 50 years. Uncanny lack of institutional ability.
Caseys Partner
Cole Hamels.
Four times.