Blue Jays GM Ross Atkins joined Ben Nicholson-Smith and Arden Zwelling on Sportsnet’s At the Letters podcast. There’s lots to listen to — including the Sportsnet team’s discussion of other subjects — but we’ll look at a few key takeaways here:
- The Jays are still committed to “putting a winning product on the field,” says Atkins, and that’ll be the driving force in the team’s decisions. (Indeed, he says he does not really anticipate a need for a full-blown rebuild in Toronto, though he would not rule out the possibility at times of requiring a “soft reset.”) Though there haven’t been any significant moves yet, that’s true of the entire remainder of the league as well. Atkins says he thinks the hold-up is likely at the top of the market but also results from a more general trend toward “more patience” in transactional decisionmaking. That could be a result of greater understanding between teams as to how they value players, he suggests, while noting there may also be a cyclical element to it. The tendency toward slow-developing action, after all, may itself create opportunities, Atkins notes.
- Toronto’s top priority remains “protect[ing] our middle infield,” says Atkins, who acknowledges the organization cannot simply rely upon Devon Travis and Troy Tulowitzki to handle regular duties. The ideal player — who, Atkins acknowledges, doesn’t likely exist — would not only add “depth and versatility” up the middle but would be a left-handed hitter that can also play in the outfield. More likely, he says, achieving all of these goals will involve multiple players. Atkins suggests a major outfield addition isn’t likely, explaining that he believes there’s “good depth” on hand but expressing a desire to find a way to “complement” the existing players “a little bit better.”
- Atkins also expanded a bit on his previously stated intentions to seek some pitching depth. The goal, he says, is “complementing our pitching in some significant way.” A back-end starter would be one possibility, per Atkins, but the team could also pursue an “elite reliever or some hybrid of the two.” It seems, then, that there’s some flexibility in the organization’s thinking on the pitching side of the ledger. More than chasing a single pitcher, perhaps, the front office will be looking for a high-value opportunity in this area.
I could see the Blue Jays grabbing Mike Minor.
I think the jays must consider wladimir balentien! He had great Numbers over the last few years
I think they should get a new front office, what has Shapiro or his boy buddies even done, short of Josh Byrnes who is @ the bottom of the barrel!!!!!!
1) Turned Drew Hutchison into Teoscar Hernandez
2) Signed Smoak to a team friendly deal ahead of a 3.2 WAR season
3) Although it wasn’t a good year for them last year, acquiring JA Happ and Estrada paid huge dividends in 2016
For all of the complaining that’s been done, they were handed a farm system that was gutted but is quietly being replenished, and they’ve made only one “bad” move in signing Pearce. Even that signing still looks fine given the economics (in basbeall $6.25M is nothing).
If they weren’t hamstrung by an ownership team set on selling more merch and keeping a narrative going with their braodcast, I’d like to imagine they would have shipped Donaldson and Pillar by now.
So basically, to recap, it didn’t tell us anything. Lol
Atkins is all Smoak and mirrors. lol.
As an Indians fan, I can promise you that Atkins probably learned from Shapiro in that regard hahaha
Arrrrggghhh. The jays Mgmt has really misjudged the talent level at the Major league level. Last year’s problems were professional scouting related as well. They misjusdged the 2018 team and even worse were the “depth” players that they tried.
Please please please don’t but into this Ross Atkins kool-aid about competing. Yes they need a shut down releiver. To be that repeating record, they need #1 and #3 starters. Happ will take a step back so will Estrada and his wonky back. Sanchez might end up in the pen. Stroman will be Stroman. That doesn’t leave a lot of innings,. Yeesh.
They need to get Travis healthy then trade him off the turf. Tulo needs to be a first base in order to keep him on the field. That means trading Smoak. Then the Jays need a new shortstop, a new 2nd baseman, a lead off guy, plus a power hitter right fielder. That’s not to mention a quality 40% of the time catcher to back up the aging Martin.
At the moment, this team has so many holes that Atkins is not addressing. I am calling for a great start to the season but becuase of the holes and lack of quality depth the long season will take it’s toll and at best 3rd place and OUT of the playoffs. The talent and depth is not here folks, don’t buy into any Kool-aid that says different.
LMFAOOO
Haven’t seen enough Jays games to comment on most of the above, but I agree with jimmertee that it’s time to move Tulo over to 1B, DH, or to another team.
He said he wasn’t interested in not playing anything but shortstop so that’s not going to be easy, I also read a report that according to Drs. Devon Travis will have trouble playing a full season anywhere.
The thing is, tulo is one of the best defenders at SS. His hitting has been just short of terrible since he’s been on the blue jays. He doesn’t get hurt from playing defense, he’s just injury prone. Moving him to 1B takes away the little value he still has which is being a good defensive shortstop. Why would you play Tulo over Smoak at 1B, when smoak is a better offensive and defensive player.
One of the primary contributors that Tulo is hurt a lot is becuase he is playing shortstop a physically very demanding position. At 32 his days at short are done. Can he still play it? Sure, if you want him even more on the disabled list. No, he has to be moved to first to maximize his value at the plate and maximize his value in health.
The Jays are going nowhere anyway this year, might as well trade Smoak in his walk year and get some value for him and play Tulo at first. He’ll be better the Smoak defensively at first too.
Thought I would take the effort to log in to address this troll. (Seen him post this on a lot of posts)
Sanchez and Stroman are both borderline aces, the only issue is sanchez’s fingernail. He will NOT be in the pen lol. Why do you think Happ will take a step back when hes been solid for the last 3 years?
Estrada’s back has had a whole playoff/off season to heal.
We need a #4/#5 starter at most, not a #1 and 3 lol….
Next, we definitely do need to make at least one major OF acquisition (I am hoping Cain) and maybe grab Nunez to help shore up the middle INF injury concerns.
Jays are still talent rich, it was injuries that plagued us last season.
Who was injured? Donaldson, Happ, Estrada, Travis, Tulo, Sanchez, Martin and more people that I just cant remember.
Any team with those injuries would have struggled. I think the jays health will dictate our future, not our lack of talent. Definitely need some pieces though, for sure.
The 2016 Jays were lucky with the lack of injuries (5 pitchers were able to soak up 153 starts), Tulo and Travis ‘only’ missed 90 games combined. Etc.
The 2017 Jays were unlucky with the injuries.
Going forward, I predict the true talent of this club will only be around 80-82 wins. They’re going to need some serious upgrading to push themselves in the 86-88 win range.
They won’t be able to do that from FA alone.
> jays Mgmt has really misjudged the talent level at the Major league level
You say some sensible things but I don’t think the front office misjudged MLB talent except in one area: power.
Despite an aging roster, they felt they needed to sign Morales to too many years, and retain a disintegrating Bautista. Giving DH duties to Pearce and Tulo (with some for Donaldson and Martin) would have been better for the team, and freed up a bench sport for a fielder.
I think this power panic was because Shapiro and Atkins had recently taken over a slugging team and worried about being seen as changing it to something foreign.
The front office acted like fans instead of winners. If they repeat these kind of mistakes, I would be surprised — and deeply disappointed.
> they need #1 and #3 starters
Yeah, every team has that “need.” It means nothing.
You vastly underestimate the value of the rotation. Health is a factor, but, again, true of every other team.
Not a chance, watch how the season unfolds with these starters: Happ, Estrada, Stroman and Sanchez and by the trade deadline you will see that I am correct in the starting rotation assessment like I was correct in my assessment last year,
They need a #1 and a #3 to compete. In other words at the moment there is no true #1 in this rotation. And the #3 they think they have is actually a #5.
Go get jake!
The Jays are kidding themselves if they think they will be competitive next season. They should trade anything not tied down and do a hard reset. Build from the ground up with good draft picks and trading like the Sox and Yankees did. They are just being delusions.
Ellis, great to see you here!! Enjoyed watching you play all the way you back to your team-record setting season with the AA New Britain Red Sox.
I got Burks autograph when I went to see the Sox in 1991. Even named my cat Ellis Burks. Im a bit of a fan. lol
Pitching staff can give this team a great chance at a wild card. Health is the key, as it is with any team, Aaron Sanchez and Marcus Stroman can be as good of a 1-2 a pretty near anyone.
But all of your position players save for your 3B are below replacement. Stroman is a good pitcher but Sanchez has to prove himself again. After them its a bunch of 4-5 starters, at best. And a closer who blew 10 saves. You guys have too many question marks to compete.
Smoak, Martin, Pillar and Travis certainly aren’t below replacement level. Also how is Happ a 4-5 starter at best?
> But all of your position players save for your 3B are below replacement
Just a plain, flat-out lie.
Why comment?
They are below replacement because they are below replacement. And Happ is ok but not young but not great.
Perhaps you need to look at advanced stats before making an assumption that every position player is below replacement level except for 3B.
By definition, zero WAR is replacement level. All those players you mentioned had WARs above zero last season. What are you talking about?
The opinion that they’re below replacement level is just flat out wrong. You know I could maybe see an argument about Pillar because of his average at best bat, but how could you possibly look at the season Smoak just had and say it was below replacement level.
ellisburks clearly just read an article or articles mentioning replacement level and didn’t realize that it had an actual, quantifiable meaning. Lol
ok they are slightly over replacement. but they only had two players witb OPS over 100 so they have two players who are over replacement offensively. Pillar has great d but is useless at bat. tulo is in decline and hurt. martin is in decline. your of is weak. and the guy everyone is placing their hopes on, Donaldson, is amazing but also turning 32 so not on the upswing of his career either.
so add all that up and you get a 4th place team like this year.
Ok, but OPS plus is an offense only stat. Russell Martin and Kevin Pillar obviously aren’t replacement level players. Martins bat is pretty much right on league average. But that is still pretty well above average for other catchers. And Travis probably would’ve been one of the top 2nd basemen after the first tier of guys. He’s probably the one of the most dynamic bats on the team, it’s just that when he was absolutely killing the ball is right when he got hurt.
They’re in a hard position because all the good players are young and controllable. Stroman, Sanchez, Osuna, Smoak, Travis and maybe even Pillar can be guys you build around. The only real good guys who don’t fit into the long term for this team is Happ, Estrada and Donaldson. So in order to have a full rebuild, they’re going to need to be drastically overpaid for all their young guys, and Stroman is the only one I can see another team doing that for.
Absolutely yes! Rebuild time. By the middle of the season you will see these scouting calls as accurate. This nonsense about Happ and Estrada being what they were 2 years ago is laughable. Plus, Not everyone in the Blue Jays med room agrees with the Atkins assessment of Sanchez fingernail. The torgue on his hand due to his mechanincs is schredding the end of that finger and at the moment cannot take more than a few innings at a time.
Stroman is not an ace he is a #2-#3. He would be an ace closer though.
The Jays are old, oldest averare age in the Mjors, it is not bad luck creating the injury issues, it is the age. That means getting younger by spending, spending, spending or trading trading trading.
The idea that Tulo and Travis are not reliable shouldn’t have taken so long to realize. Both are oft injured players. There’s nothing new here.
The ideal player would’ve been to pick up Starlin Castro back in Dec. 2015.
But I can’t blame Atkins, because he was just a few days into his job. Shapiro should’ve seen it coming though.
I agree they totally blew it last off season with depth on the whole club not just the infield. The problem they have this year is what ever they add as pitching depth should be good enough to retain for next year as we lose both happ and Estrada as free agents unless traded at the trade deadline which lets be honest they will. I like going after someone like villar for infield depth if and it’s an amazing if Travis and tulo fluke off a fairly healthy season then villar can be your everyday left fielder, but to be honest you probably have to trade Travis to get him even if Milwaukee is getting frustrated we him. I also think we need to sign a better pitcher than someone than Anderson more long term like maybe chatwood or Cobb or Lynn. We can let the young out fielders we have play Alford was good enough to start last year till he was injured now all of a sudden he isn’t is silly
I cheer for Toronto and willing to be patient for 2-4yrs while we do a “hard reset.” Even if everything goes right next year how can we compete against NY, Houston, Cleveland and Boston?
> how can we compete against NY, Houston, Cleveland and Boston
Pitching.
Any team can suffer from injuries and/or struggle. Seasons can be vastly different year to year. (Boston can contend that!) You can’t just assume that those teams will be elite next season.. Sure, Houston and Cleveland are likely going to be the teams to beat. NY and Boston? Not necessarily. They have bigger needs than the other two, and will have new Managers and coaches. Plus there are teams that have bounce back season that nobody expects. Could be the Angels, Seattle, hell even Texas or Baltimore can be contenders again.
This team isn’t that far from competing. If healthy, the rotation could go back to being the best in the AL. That’s a big if, but it isn’t unrealistic. They do need to add on to the offense though. If we go into the offseason and come out with another Morales though, they’re pretty screwed
Balony, barring major upgrades which I have stated here before, this team will not have any meaningful games in October in 2018.
You’ve also stated many outrageous things too…
“The ideal player — who, Atkins acknowledges, doesn’t likely exist — would not only add “depth and versatility” up the middle but would be a left-handed hitter that can also play in the outfield.”
What about the Cubs’ Ian Happ? Switch hitter. Have any pitching to trade?
Jays seem to be setting themselves up for a rebuild. They could go all in and sign a JD Martinez, but what are their plans for Donaldson? Will they sincerely attempt to extend him, or will those efforts just enable them to say they tried? Shapiro went through that in CLE with Jim Thome, Manny Ramirez, etc. TOR would receive a significant influx of young talent if they dealt Donaldson now, but they’d still be stuck with Tulo and Morales (both practically unmoveable) and an aging Russell Martin. The upside to their situation is they don’t have any long term SP albatross contracts on the books.
The Jays are the richest team in baseball. Those contracts shouldn’t matter at all and Martin Tulo and Morales are usable parts. The issue with this club is not the contracts. it is the Jays Mgmt decisions and overestimated the talent and health level of this club.
Perhaps it is time to sign some albatross starting ptichers, wait-a-minute the professional scounting department needs an upgrade first.
richest team in baseball are you mad?
Actually they really are- largest media market by far (35 million…i.e. all of Canada), owned by a multi-billion dollar corporation. The problem is Rogers is cheap. Cheap, cheap, cheap, and as typical Canadians (and I speak as a Canadian) are just too conservative, too hesitant and too scared to take a leap. They could literally field a $400 million dollar team and it wouldn’t even scratch Rogers bottom line.
Yup, Rogers is by far the richest owner in MLB.
The Jays do not generate enough revenue to justify a $400 million payroll. Sure, Rogers could afford it, but the world isn’t that simplistic. Rogers is a public company owned by shareholders who wouldn’t appreciate the Blue Jays operation running $200 million in the red and eating up their personal profits.
Fair point, Stormie, but the last two years have decisively demonstrated to Rogers the enormous income that a successful, playoff-bound Jays team can generate, and yet they’re still hesitant to go all-in. As far as shareholders go, the top ten holders are all institutional and add up to about 33%- which is usually enough to steer the ship if they all agree- and they’re all ultra-conservative, non-risk taking Canadians :p
It is fairly well known that the Jays were not going to sign Bautitsta last year until, it is speculated, a Rogers board member stepped in a nd said “whatever price possible” to sign him regardless of budget. It didn’t turn out well but why did that board member do it?
Becuase when the Jays are firing right on all cylinders Rogers cell phone business is affected, in some areas drastically affected for the positive. It is proven fact that when the Jays were rolling Rogers complaints in the phone business fell through the floor. The goodwill spilled over.
In the 4th quarter alone of 2016, Rogers rev was $3.5 billion and profits were $ 1.259 billion. One quarter alone folks. Profit per share was $.74. A Blue Jays $400 budget would be a drop in the bucket for this company.
So just because of that, budgets shouldn’t exist so they won’t make a profit? Just because they are owned by a very large communications company doesn’t mean they should go in all costs. It’s still a business, and frankly they already have a large payroll (in the top 10)
You are correct in your point. The front office has made some significant roster misjudgments which surprises me since that wasn’t something Shapiro struggled with in CLE. Atkins & Shapiro haven’t made very many “smart moves” yet in roster construction. No question the organization has the money to improve, but they need to be wise in how they allocate salary to avoid a situation like SF.
Thing is, if they trade Donaldson now they don’t get too much more than they would if they traded him at the deadline, so why not make a couple of moves that don’t hurt the future and see what they have before blowing it up?
So they want to be competitive by not adding a significant outfield piece, a utility player and a backend starter/swingman, and maybe an “elite” reliever… Did i miss something???
I wonder sometimes if this isn’t just off season gamesmanship.
Judging on this teams past history acquiring impact players, at least through free agency, I’m going to say no. And with the current regimes unlikeliness to trade prospects, at least the kind that would return impact players, I’m also going to go with no
May have posted this elsewhere but would like to see Tulo for Ellsbury if Ellsbury would allow it.
Jays get left handed hitter, leadoff hitter, outfielder (should be good in left), open SS hole to fill with Cozart maybe (no market for SSs so could get a good price), to reduce health uncertainty, though Cozart isn’t all that healthy himself and neither is Ellsbury, but they will give you more games than Tulo most likely.
Yankees alleviate OF logjam, can start Tulo at 3B, could be the one team he’d accept it and not be disgruntled, DH is open for ABs, Headley there to play everyday if needed, Torres and Andujar will be coming up anyway, maybe could trade one with the added depth if a good pitcher is available.
Exchange a couple million whichever way if necessary.
That’s a good proposition actually, a Tulo for Ellsbury makes sense, I’m just not sure how the Yankees use Tulo?
I just meant I doubt the Yankees want to block their young guys.
I don’t normally comment on the this for that stuff., but Tulo for Ellesbury makes a whole lot of sense. The Jays could use Ellesbury and Tulo’s dream is to play for the Yankees. He has expressed that many times. He has a full no trade that he would waive for the Yankees.
The more I think about it, Toronto would match up well with Philly in a trade. The Phils need pitching and Toronto really needs some roster pieces. Moving a guy like Stroman who has 4 years of team control or…Sanchez gives Philly a 1 or 2 type starter to pair with Nola… Now as for Toronto, exactly what they need which is surplus. A guy like Cesar Hernandez or Freddy Galvis.. Getting a pitcher like stroman or sanchez, Philly could also send a young starter like Efflin or Thompson..even Velequez… So say Hernandz, Velequez and a 10-20 prospect..maybe an outfielder where the phils have a ton of outfielders in their system. Velequez has some talent so he gives em another starter and Hernandz gives an all star caliber infielder plus a prospect for kicks…salaries are pretty well leveled and i believe Hernandz has a few years of control too.
I’m hanging on to young stud controllable pitching if I’m a GM.
If the Blue Jays need a guy who can handle up the middle and play outfield they should call the Padres about Spangenberg or Pirela.
Maybe Spangenberg for Ryan Borucki and Angel Perdomo. Spangenberg comes with 3 more years of team control,
Spangenberg is an intriguing player for them to try, but I think Borucki is too good of a prospect for them to give up for a guy like him.
I think they could be in the WC discussion and if they exceed expectations then maybe they could win the division but I would be surprised if they did. the team needs Sanchez to be an ace which he may or may not be, they need Stephan to be on his game all year and season to have an MVP year. Other than them you have Justin smoak and a bunch of injuries is my guess. and Justin soak is a question mark himself. their other SP are pretty average when they are performing at their highest level. ja happ? Marco Estrada? These are the players topic hopes on? I think the s.art move is to improve where you can and then to sell at the deadline unless Boston or NY end up being worse than projected. Should be 3rd place team and on the fringes of the wild card discu
Another depth option is fernandez who just got released by the dodgers. Can play the infield or a corner outfield. Left handed hitter with a good average and some pop. Wouldn’t cost you much and could pay off!
They should at least gauge the market to see what trading Donaldson would bring, unless they think.they can extend him.
How about we (as Atkins put it) “compliment “ him to the door and a plane out of Canada.
Jonathan Villar. Switch-hitting middle infielder that can also play the outfield.
Ross Atkins quote today, ” We have a great core to build on” What a load of hogwash. I suggest it is time to trade Ross Atkins back to Cleveland. Can the team be built around Stroman, Pillar, and a few quality releivers? That is all the Blue Jays have,. The rest are not championship quality except Josh Donaldson who should be traded because the Jays won’t be winning anything in 2018.
Ross Atkins 2nd quote today, “I couldn’t care less about Stanton going to the Yankees”. Again his true colours are showing. He should care, because the Jays lost EE and JoeyBats and didn’t replace them with quality, only kids and poor depth that didn’t belong in the majors. This team will not win in 2018 with this mindset.
Yeesh. It is difficult to stay a BlueJay fan with the Shapiro/Atkins mindset that is so obvious in operation. They are not really trying to win in the shorterm, maybe they’ll get close in 5 years. Folks, don’t pay any attention to the what is spewing out of Atkins mouth,
The Shaprio/Atkins strategy appears to be money motivated not winning oriented. A real rebuild, which is absolutely necessary now, will cost them rearends in the seats and hit them at the wallet. They are clearly serving the wallet, so folks, look to the Yankees or Red Sox if you want to keep your baseball affections in the AL East.