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After a disappointing season ended in front office calamity, the Braves will attempt to take the next step in their rebuilding process under new baseball leadership.
Guaranteed Contracts
- Freddie Freeman, 1B: $86MM through 2021
- Matt Kemp, OF: $36MM through 2019 (Dodgers, via Padres, paying $7MM of Kemp’s remaining obligations)
- Ender Inciarte, OF: $28.525MM through 2022 (including buyout on 2022 club option)
- Julio Teheran, SP: $20MM through 2019 (including buyout on 2020 club option)
- Nick Markakis, OF: $10.5MM through 2018
- Jim Johnson, RP: $4.5MM through 2018
- Tyler Flowers, C: $4MM through 2018 (exercised club option)
- Kurt Suzuki, C: $3.5MM through 2018
- Rex Brothers, RP: split contract of unknown value
Arbitration-Eligible Players (projections via MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz)
- Matt Adams (5.033) – $4.6MM
- Arodys Vizcaino (4.168) – $3.7MM
- Danny Santana (3.111) – $1.1MM
- Sam Freeman (3.066) – $1.2MM
- Jace Peterson (3.003) – $1.1MM
- Daniel Winkler (3.000) – $800K
- Mike Foltynewicz (2.163) – $2.7MM
- Non-tender candidates: Adams, Santana, Peterson
Free Agents
- R.A. Dickey (declined club option), Jason Motte
[Atlanta Braves Depth Chart | Atlanta Braves Payroll Outlook]
John Hart and John Coppolella provided a wild ride for the Braves’ faithful, engineering a variety of bold moves and stocking the organization with young talent. But rules violations led to the departures of both, along with league discipline that stripped the Braves of some of their most interesting younger prospects and constrained the organization’s ability to add new international talent in the coming seasons.
Former Blue Jays GM and Dodgers executive Alex Anthopoulos was brought in as an experienced hand who can get the organization back on track. But that doesn’t mean we should anticipate a quiet offseason. Though the new top baseball decisionmaker has suggested he’s not looking for a general shake-up, he swung quite a few blockbusters in Toronto and will surely have his own ideas about the roster he’s inheriting.
What remains unclear is just how aggressive the organization will be in seeking to put a winner on the field in 2018. The club enters the offseason with just over $90MM in likely commitments, including anticipated arbitration payouts. Depending upon how high payroll will rise, there could be some room for relatively significant additions. Alternatively, the club might seek to condense some of its upper-level young talent in an effort to land quality, controllable assets to the MLB roster. Entering the second year at SunTrust Park on the heels of the rules scandal, it’s possible to imagine some effort to push into contention. On the other hand, the hit to the team’s future interests may counsel in favor of some caution.
In his first acts in office, Anthopoulos took some low-cost opportunities to shore up the team’s bullpen — a notable area of need. But the pitchers he grabbed from his former organization — Grant Dayton and Josh Ravin — are just the kind of risky maneuvers we might have seen from his predecessors. The former will miss most or all of 2018 while rehabbing from Tommy John surgery while the latter has never held down a steady MLB job. But both have big-time swing-and-miss upside.
Lining up a strong and reliable relief corps, though, may well require more. There’s talent on hand, to be sure. Pitchers such as Arodys Vizcaino, Jose Ramirez, A.J. Minter, Mauricio Cabrera, Daniel Winkler, Luke Jackson, Rex Brothers, Jacob Lindgren, and Jesse Biddle have had some MLB success and/or shown impressive arsenals, not unlike Dayton and Ravin. But none of these pitchers has yet strung together multiple, successful MLB campaigns and several come with health concerns. Veterans Jim Johnson and Sam Freeman are in the picture, too, but there’s room here for further tinkering.
It’s not an altogether different picture in the rotation, which no longer includes three veteran arms — R.A. Dickey, Bartolo Colon, and Jaime Garcia — that opened with the club last year. Julio Teheran and Mike Foltynewicz are the two senior members of the staff at present; both will be looking to improve after producing middling results in 2017. They could be joined by a trio young lefties who are fresh off of their MLB debuts. Sean Newcomb still needs to hone his command to reach his ceiling, but turned in 100 solid frames. Luiz Gohara showed off his talent in five starts, posting 9.5 K/9 against 2.5 BB/9 after mostly dominating in his first taste of the upper minors in an eventful campaign. And Max Fried also got a brief run in the bigs, though his overall effort on the year suggests some further seasoning may be in order.
Otherwise, the Braves have some back-end right-handed arms available in Lucas Sims, Aaron Blair, and Matt Wisler, all of whom have struggled in their early MLB time. More exciting arms — Mike Soroka and Kolby Allard — aren’t far off after turning in strong years at Double-A, but don’t currently hold 40-man roster spots.
With that wide array of options, the Braves could actually focus on paring back some excess depth over the offseason and into the camp, though there’s also some flexibility since all of those candidates can also still be optioned. Competing the open spots between this lengthy list of young pitchers is a reasonable approach. Some may also conceivably turn into bullpen candidates instead.
At the same time, the Braves will need to strongly consider pursuing upgrades if they truly hope to put a legitimate contender on the field for the coming season. There’s some merit to considering a solid veteran type to hold down some innings at the back of the rotation, though the team passed up on a chance to retain Dickey for the purpose (though he may have been headed for retirement anyway) and it is also arguable that a more significant addition would be warranted. It’s possible to imagine the Braves dabbling in the upper levels of the free agent market, perhaps going after a hurler such as Alex Cobb or finally landing the unicorn (top-end controllable starter) that the prior administration seemingly pursued for years. There’s a long slate of possibilities at a lower price point, of course, and the Braves might also conceivably take some lower-priced risks, with righty Chris Tillman representing the most intriguing bounceback arm available to the high bidder.
There’s less to be done on the position-player side, though that shouldn’t be read as a suggestion that there isn’t any room for improvement. In addition to top star Freddie Freeman at first, the club is set up the middle with Ender Inciarte in center; Dansby Swanson, Ozzie Albies, and Johan Camargo in the middle infield; and Tyler Flowers and Kurt Suzuki behind the plate. That’s far from the best group of core position player talent in baseball, particularly given that the young infielders still are not yet fully established and the catchers are only short-term assets, but it gives the organization a base to work from this winter.
The top priority, in all likelihood, will be improving at third base. Adonis Garcia has had stretches of competence, but he’s a 32-year-old player with a .267/.300/.414 slash through 944 MLB plate appearances. Former top pick Rio Ruiz may ultimately deserve a longer look, but he hit just .193/.283/.307 in his 173 trips to the plate at the game’s highest level last year and has not exactly dominated the opposition over two full seasons at Triple-A. Around this time last year, Coppolella gave some reason to believe Travis Demeritte might be the future at the hot corner, but he took a step back in 2017 and was not protected from the Rule 5 draft. (Dustin Peterson was also left open to being claimed in the draft.) The current prospect of note is Austin Riley, who knocked around Double-A pitching after a tepid run at the High-A level. But he’s still just twenty years of age and is far from a sure thing.
While the Braves could conceivably allow Camargo to play at third while utilizing Jace Peterson as a utility infielder, that would be an awfully risky way of constructing the infield for an organization that intends to improve its on-field product. Camargo turned heads last year, but benefited from a .364 BABIP and walked at only a 4.7% clip. Swanson struggled badly after an impressive MLB debut in 2016. That also serves as a reminder not to forget that Albies is still just twenty years old and may yet have his own growing pains to experience. The better bet would be to bring in a veteran to shore things up at the hot corner for at least a season or two. MLBTR guessed that the Braves could land top free agent Mike Moustakas, who lacks an obvious landing spot, but that was and remains a speculative connection. The Braves could look at other established players on shorter-term deals, potentially including free agents ranging from Todd Frazier to Yunel Escobar or potential trade targets that could include Yangervis Solarte and Nick Castellanos. At this point, frankly, it’s hard to guess what kind of direction the pursuit might take odds are, though, that there’ll be a healthy dose of opportunism guiding the effort.
The corner outfield is another area of some intrigue (though others could open based upon other moves). Atlanta could rely again upon veterans Matt Kemp and Nick Markakis while supplementing them with a reserve or two, possibly including Lane Adams, who showed well in his first real MLB time in 2017. But the organization would probably rather upgrade over those two — neither of whom profiles as a viable everyday player at this stage of their careers — and begin preparing for a future with younger options. Shedding some salary would be preferable, too. Markakis would make for a useful platoon or reserve outfielder for a contender, though he could also remain an appealing piece in Atlanta, while Kemp could fit on an American League team in search of pop. But dealing either will mean keeping some salary, particularly for the latter.
There are some similarities between the corner outfield and the third-base situations, with one major difference. Unlike at the hot corner, there is a clear heir apparent on hand to step into an outfield spot. Top prospect Ronald Acuna is likely ready for a big league test after blowing through the minors in 2017, though the team will in all probability at least start him in the minors to capture an additional season of club control. While pursuing other pieces in the corner outfield could still make sense, particularly if a truly appealing opportunity presents itself, one spot will undoubtedly be reserved for Acuna — who could be an everyday presence for the majority of 2018 and years beyond.
That leaves one interesting, unaddressed piece of the Braves’ offseason puzzle: Matt Adams. The first baseman was a sensation upon arriving in a midseason swap, but cooled down the stretch and also missed time with injury. The Braves dabbled with positional changes to accommodate his bat in the lineup — trying Freeman at third and Adams in left — but those seem likely to be left in the rearview mirror. Now, Adams looks to be an ill-fitting piece for a team whose best player is a young, left-handed-hitting first baseman. While it’s conceivable that he’d draw interest in trade, the 29-year-old is best limited to facing right-handed pitching and occupying first base or DH. Defensively limited, good-but-not-great hitters aren’t in short supply these days, so it’s not likely that the Atlanta organization will reap a big return — and it’s possible the team will simply non-tender Adams instead.
Ultimately, despite the loss of some notable prospect capital, Anthopoulos will have quite a few pieces and a bit of payroll flexibility to work with. The wild cards here are upper management’s views on the contention timeline and the new front office’s feelings about the club’s young talent. There’s a conceivable world where the Braves end up largely maintaining their current roster for the 2018 season, with a few tweaks on the margins. There’s another where Atlanta engages in quite a bit more swapping and acquiring of assets, reflecting both Anthopoulos’s preferences and perhaps also a determination that it’s time to move toward competition. And there’s a wide gray area in between, with plenty of stopping points along the way. What was always going to be a fascinating offseason to watch is all the more interesting after the curveball that kicked it off.
Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
sufferforsnakes
Outlook? How about overcast?
bastros88
just out of curiosity, why is Matt Adams a non tender candidate?
realgone2
Probably because he’s projected to make 4.6 million. Though i’m not entirely sold on him being a non tender either.
WalkersDayOff
No way. He was on fire for them last year. There will be a taker for him 100 percent. Will be a small return, but thats still something
realgone2
He was on fire for them for one month.
nscheffel
Why in the world would the Braves risk $5M when the return on that risk is a nothing prospect?
WalkersDayOff
Braves will never compete if 5 million is too much to risk on a guy with an .800 + OPS
nscheffel
Right, and they won’t compete in 2018.
JKB 2
So you want to risk $5million for an admitted “small return” potential?? You are not trading Adams for anything of value
baseballfanforever
Compete doesn’t necessarily mean win the World Series. I think with a couple of good trades, Acuna hitting his stride, the starting staff showing some signs of good pitching, they could do it. It always takes luck you know. The Yankees came out of nowhere last season. can never say never…
UGA_Steve
Nowhere to play him, and that +.800 was inflated due to situational hitting against righties for the most part. He simply cannot hit lefties.(.180/.206/.377). That line is like a really great glove middle infielder that everyone knows can’t hit instead of a first base only slugger with average defense.
Sorry, not worth $5m. I would be happy with a bullpen arm, though the market will be small. He basically would only be a platoon 1b/DH candidate and as the article states, that isn’t going to get you much. Teams simply do not want to waste dollars on a platoon 1B. If he was a corner OF then maybe.
Johhos
Two words:Freddie Freeman
realgone2
Though they could tender him and then try and trade him for something.
nscheffel
Because the Braves can’t afford a $5M bench player (as evidenced by dumping SRod), and MAdams likely has almost zero trade value. If they want to dump th salary a non-tender might be their only option.
petfoodfella
“Srod” sucked when he finally got to the plate.
He sucked just as much when he went back to Pit in 2017 as well.
nscheffel
So you’re saying MAdams has trade value?
I don’t see how this comment was applicable in any way to what I said.
LADreamin
Ask yourself, with Freeman at first, where does he play? His defense isn’t good enough for a corner OF spot and ATL already has a lot of money tied into Markakis and Kemp. For a player with no position, wouldn’t $4.6M sound better to put that towards a good 3B or SP?
CubsFanForLife
This team seems like it’s 2-3 solid additions away from being a contender (and a breakthrough from Albies or Swanson). I’m surprised Darvish wasn’t mentioned – the Phillies and Braves are in similar stages of their rebuild processes, and Darvish could provide plenty of value, even if the Braves aren’t a true contender until 2019.
nscheffel
Signing a pitcher at top of the market rates so a team can contend in 15 months is a foolish waste of money.
CubsFanForLife
Agreed, but why couldn’t the Braves compete for a wild card in 2018? With additions like Moose or Frazier, Darvish, and some back end bullpen options (hoping for the Mike Minor reunion), if everything breaks right, winning 10 more games doesn’t sound so unrealistic.
nscheffel
I’m guessing payroll goes down to the $100M-$110M range due to lackluster attendance projections (less than 2.5 million in 2018). They probably can’t afford those types of additions.
paullentz1972
The 2018 Payroll will go down from 2017…because we are replacing Colon, Garcia and Dickey (and their $31 mil combined 2017 salaries) with Luis Gohara, Sean Newcomb and Max Fried/Lucas Sims (all of whom will be making approximately $550k each in 2018 as pre-arbitration eligible players).
Atlanta should go with the youngsters in 2018 (trading Markakis, eating approximately $2-$4 mil of the last year of his 2018 $10.5 mil contract in a trade that frees up Right Field for Ronald Acuna)……platooning Johan Carmago and Rio Ruiz at 3rd in 2018……as well as going with a young, cheap bullpen.
The Braves simply have too many questions to seriously contend for a playoff spot in 2018. Use the payroll savings in 2018 to allocate for trading/eating part Matt Kemp’s final year contract after The 2018 Season (when he’ll only be owed $18.5 mil fo the final year of his contract in 2019….making him MUCH EASIER to trade to an AL team in need of a power hitting DH). His health/power production in 2018 for The Braves….will determine how much of his final year The Braves will have to eat (I feel that if Kemp is reasonably healthy/hitting for power…than an AL team would be willing to pay approximately $10 mil or so for a power hitting DH in 2019…making Atlanta responsible for eating between $6-$8 mil of Kemp’s final year).
With no bad contracts on Atlanta going into 2019 (after trading Kemp)…to go along with OUR PLETHORA of young talent flooding the MLB roster…..we’ll be positioned to pay/afford BOTH Manny Machado AND Bryce Harper with $35 mil a year long term contracts for each of them….in addition to offering Craig Kimbrel approximately $18 mil a year to come back to be our closer!
I suggest you scroll down to read my DETAILED/LENGTHY explanation for why I support these signings…as well as to how The Braves can make it work financially (both in 2019 AND long term). Trust me, I took the time to explain how AND why it can/should work!
bluegorilla
But if they think they’ll need a good SP to contend from 2019 on, there’s not much on the market SP-wise in next year’s class. Might have to spend on Darvish, Arrieta, or try to get Ohtani this year.
TennVol
Considering the ties between the Jays and Braves front offices, you might see some kind of trade there. Each has assets that would help the other team. Anthopoulis is known as a gun slinger so here goes one mans thoughts on making the Braves contenders this year: Trade Albies, Freeman and Enciarte to the Jays for Stroman, Donaldson, Pillar and Smoak. In a trade like this, both teams fans will be howling so it might just be an interesting trade. The Braves could then sign Darvish for say 5/125M and Cain for 5/75 and this team looks really good with defense, power and speed. Stroman and Darvish top the rotation for the next 4 years and we then sign Donaldson, who is from the South, to a 5 year contract extension and we contend for the next 5+ years.
petfoodfella
No way Atlanta trades Freeman. That would be suicide for the tickets.
R.D.
Those are the three least likely Braves to be traded. So that’s impressive in it’s own way. Stroman is a great player but no way the Braves ever do this.
cwilliam
Toronto would never do that deal.
HalfAstros7
Lol
jbaker3170
Wait…sign a 32 y/o 3b to a 5 yr deal, not to mention a 32 y/o CF, who I’m assuming would be replacing a GG CF currently on the team?? Hahahahahahaha!!! W/all do respect, lay off the drugs. Seriously
realgone2
HAHAHAHAH. Never in a million years.
CT
Zero chance Braves trade Freeman or Albies.
MikePLV10
AA works for the Braves now. Why would he trade the teams 2 best players and the 1 season removed from top prospect 2B?
Connorsoxfan
If Toronto gives into the rebuild then I think Stroman is moved to Atlanta, but nothing like this trade you suggest.
baseballfanforever
Dude .. come on, no team trades away their corner stone players. You just named the top 3 for the Braves.
JKB 2
@ Frank Waller
What ties are you talking about between the Braves and Blue Jays front office? AA resigned when Shapiro came in. He never worked with him or anyone in the new front office. Just because AA used to be their GM does not mean there are ties. Do your homework. How can you say there are obvious ties.
That is as absurd as that trade proposal
paullentz1972
NO WAY would I, as a Braves fan, make this trade! Ozzie Albies is going to be our Jose Altuve! Freddie Freeman is an MVP candidate. Ender Inciarte is a gold glove centerfielder!
We have PLENTY of young/controllable/cheap starting pitching coming up the next couple of years. I want NO PART of Yu Darvish!
If the Braves are going to spend big money on a 3rd baseman…I’d rather see them offer Manny Machado a $35 mil a year long term contract after The 2018 Season. He’ll only cost us money and a couple of non-first round draft picks!
Pillar and Smoak ARE NOT players who can help a team contend for a World Series.
TennVol
The fans and tickets sales will come if the WIN!
CompanyAssassin
From what I can tell Brothers minor league contract of 535k, having previously been released in 2016 by the Cubs. Spotrac had $233k of dead money for him in 2016.
thinkblech
Rex Brothers sounds like a furniture store. Now, at Rex Brothers! 24 months no interest financing, your job is your credit!
ffjsisk
I really think the Braves are gonna spend money this year. To many offseason headaches to not try and be competitive. Arietta or Darvish, plus Moustakas. If Riley can hit, throw him in left.
nscheffel
I bet payroll is closer to $110M than $125M.
baseballfanforever
I disagree. I think the budget will be much higher this year. With all the negativity so far and the hiring of a GM that is known for making big deals I think they are going to make some big changes.
Pablo
Trade freeman while he’s still worth something astronomical. They could even get a good major league player in the trade if they wanted. They are not going to compete in the next few years. Make a blockbuster while you can.
I’m sure it’s hard for a fan, but they’d enjoy having a winning team in 2022 than a team that still has holes and is Freddie is somewhere else anyways.
ffjsisk
They better be competitive way before 2022
Billy 3
I’d like to see a trade of Freeman to the Astros, who have a predominately RH lineup. The addition of the LH hitting Freeman in the middle of that Houston lineup would be scary to the other American league teams for years to come.
Now this is what it takes to get him: With Beltran retiring, Houston will be needing a DH…so
Freeman+ Matt Kemp ( full Salary) to Houston for 3B Alex Bregman & OF Kyle Tucker
MikePLV10
Had freeman not broke his wrist, he would have been in the top 3 for MVP this season. No way, covering 28mill of kemp gets him for that price. He has a below market contact (now). I don’t believe Bergman and Tucker would get him.
Whyamihere
Bregman has more control than Freeman, is way cheaper, is more versatile, and steamer projects them both to produce about the same. I think the Astros would probably turn down Bregman for Freeman straight up, not to mention adding Kemp and Tucker in the trade.
southi
To be honest if the Astros would agree to that swap I’d do it in a heartbeat. Bregman would solve thirdbase and you could play Matt Adams at first in the meantime. Austin Riley could switch to first with a possible big league ETA of September 2018. By getting rid of Kemp you are freeing up an outfield spot for Acuna (although I’d keep him down a month or so for service time reasons). Tucker very well could be ready by September as well. With Markakis in the last season of his contract Tucker would be a fantastic replacement.
Yes, it would be difficult for the fandom to part with Freeman, but that type of deal could spell even better success in the future.
Billy 3
Well said…my thoughts exactly
1) Kemp leaving frees up a spot for Acuna
2) Solves the what do we do with M Adams question…..Play Him
Riley moves to 1B in AAA
3) Tucker replaces Markakis in 2019…Riley replaces M Adams in
2019
4) Frees up almost 40 million of payroll the next two years
5) 2019 Lineup 1) Albies 2) Inciarte 3)Bregman 4) Tucker
5) Acuna 6) Riley 7) Swanson 8) Scivicque
For the Astros Y Gurriell moves back to 3B and the LH Freeman hits inbetween Altuve & Correia…Kemp when healthy would make an excellent DH and an upgrade from the DH spot last year
This trade really helps both clubs…I mean if we have to sweeten the deal add in A Vizcaino….The Braves need to make this happen
Billy 3
Freeman is a MVP candidate and bats LH. Steamer cant project how the presence of Freeman in the Astros lineup could benefit
the batters around him. He also provides much better defense at 1B than what Houston has now. The Astros have Gurriell, who can handle the vacancy at 3B.
Tucker, even tho is a great prospect, is just that…a prospect
M. Kemp when healthy can carry a team offensively
The Braves are taking the chance here…Freeman & Kemp are proven major league hitters.
Bregman may have a sophmore slump…Tucker ( only 20y/o is still unproven at the MLB level )
If Houston wants to repeat this trade makes them a better team
Whyamihere
Lineup protection is pretty much a myth, and WAR/WRC+ are essentially completely independent on what your teammates do, so Steamer can project how Freeman is expected to do in the Astros lineup. Though really you lost all credibility when you tried to bill Kemp as being anything but a dead weight in this deal. This deal might make the Astros slightly better than they are right now, but you’re also adding $39 million in payroll for next season alone, so Houston would probably be a better team in 2018 by just spending that money and keeping Bregman and Tucker than they would adding those two players. You could probably add Carlos Santana and Wade Davis and still not spend that much.
paullentz1972
Dude, you are SMOKING CRACK if you think that Houston WOULD NOT trade Bregman for Freddie Freeman STRAIGHT UP!
Bregman should end up having a nice MLB career long term. However he IS NOT even close to being in Freeman’s league as a hitter! As a Braves fan…NO WAY do I make that trade!
mj-2
Personally think we shouldn’t make any major moves other than clearing out Markakis if possible. Newcomb, Gohara, and Fried can round out the staff to start. Allard and Soroka have looked great and I’d rather roll the dice and say at least one ends up seeing significant time in the rotation, bumping Fried or Gohara in the process.
The infield is trickier. Personally I would like Camargo at SS. Throw his peripherals at me if you want, yes I know them, and I still want him there. BUT I know we won’t ever do it. So just put him at 3B since we seem dead set handing SS back to Dansby. We don’t need to plug up that spot signing Moustakas, and no one else is really an upgrade over Camargo to me. So just wait it out I say.
Ideally though I would trade Swanson hoping someone out there still valued him and go Camargo. Call me crazy, but that’s the only real move I’d make on this team right now.
John P. Tucker
I agree that the Braves do not need any major moves for position players other than clearing the way to allow the up-and-coming rookies like outfielder Ronald Acuna and 3B slugger Austin Riley to make their roster out of Spring Training.
Markakis and Kemp are defensive and injury liabilities & are blocking the speedy defense, base-running and on-base skills of Lane Adams and Ronald Acuna. Trading both (or even releasing Kemp) will be necessary to finish the Braves’ rebuild.
Let camargo and Dansby compete for SS in Spring training and let the loser be the utlity infielder. Get rid of Jace Peterson and other place holders. No need for vets in infield.
As for pitching, trade or release Wisler and other mediocre guys who have already shown their lack of talent and mental toughness to pitch in the Majors. Focus on Fried, Newcomb,, Gohara, Soroka and Allard.
Get catcher Alex Jackson ready for the Bigs as soon as possible in AA & AAA so he can replace Suziki or Flowers, if either are injured this summer.
THAT’S HOWYOU FINISH THE REBUILD & START CONTENDING AGAIN.
MAYBE AD A VET STARTER AND RELIEVER AS NEEDED, BUT NO MORE JIM JOHNSON, PLEASE.
southi
While Alex Jackson has come a long way development wise since coming to the Braves organization he still has a lot of opportunities. His hitting approach currently translates well for hitting mistakes thrown by minor league pitchers but he doesn’t often put up what most people would call “quality type big league atbats”.
Jackson made great strides defensively, but mainly from the standpoint that he hadn’t caught in around three seasons. Behind the plate he still needs a lot of improvement especially with honing his blocking technique and his pop and throw. It is optimistic to think Jackson would be a satisfactory defensive catcher before 2020. Even then his likely ceiling is somewhat Gattis-like.
It is much more likely that if an injury was to occur to either Suzuki or Flowers that Kade Scivicque would be the one called up. While Scivicque doesn’t have the offensive upside of Jackson by almost all accounts Scivicque could currently be more than adequate as a big league back up catcher.
Houston We Have A Solution
Padres would probably take Swanson and Wisler off your hands as reclamation projects.
Something like Swanson and Wisler to the Padres for Cordero, Lawson, and Thompson.
mj-2
Forgot the bullpen. Article already mentions we have a bunch of guys, although none have been consistent. I say just stick with what we have. There’s talent there and we need to use this year to sort who works if possible. Then next year we sign a true closer to complement who is working out of that bunch and take some pressure off. By then Allard and Soroka should both be up, hopefully pitching successfully. Albies will have a year. Markakis will for sure be gone, either by contract or trade, and Acuna in. I’m thinking 2019 a little Craig Kimbrel reunion should fit in nicely and pick up a better catcher if possible.
2019 team
Teheran
Allard
Soroka
Newcomb
(Whoever survives between Fried, Folty, or Gohara… I wanna say Folty but every time he makes progress he turns around and takes steps back)
Kimbrel
Vizcaino
Minter
Jose Ramirez
Mauricio Cabrera? Maybe a Mike Minor add from this year?
Albies
Inciarte
Freeman
Kemp
Acuna
Camargo/Riley maybe mid season
Catcher pick up
Swanson/Camargo slides to steal time from a struggling Swanson if Riley ends up ready
It’s putting an optimistic spin on Allard and Soroka for sure, but I think that’s a team that contends in 2019
steelerbravenation
Sign Addison Reed
Sign Jake McGee
Sign Brandon Phillips to hold down 3rd til Riley is ready
Trade Markakis mid season giving Acuna the extra year and more time to learn to hit the breaking ball
Trade Matt Adams & S. Freeman for low level prospect
Maybe mid season Kemp will have built up enough value that you could package him up with a prospect to move him to a team in need of a DH down the stretch.
Also keep Fried, Gohara, Newcomb in the rotation and every 3rd time or so thru the rotation skip one of their starts for Sims just to control their innings a bit.
wes carroll
I think the braves should be looking at getting a top slugger to pair with freeman Jd Martinez/ Stanton. this team could be very scary with acuna and a power bat.
Ender
Ozzie
Freeman
Stanton/Martinez
Acuna
Flowers/Suzuki
Camargo
Swanson
Power in the middle is what this lineup lacks. The free agency of ’18 will have superstars but what’s the chances of landing any: Harper,machado are gonna be asking for paydays not seen in baseball and as much as I’d like the braves to get harper I have a feeling it’s dodgers or Yankees for him.
In short get a slugger now braves
chound
They Braves could obviously afford Martinez or Stanton if they move Kemp but that if seems so difficult for a team that just got slammed by the MLB. Their fans were already not looking forward to the Kemp contract trade cost, now it is almost impractical. Look for a pitching shift with in the Braves line up. A trade of Julio Tehran and Mike Foltynewicz to restock some mid level to upper level prospects and a run at one of Darvish/Arrieta. I only say that b/c of the Braves top 10 prospects, like 8 are pitchers. It’s time to make money count while providing rotation room.
paullentz1972
I feel that it is HIGHLY PREMATURE to ponder ‘trying to build a playoff team for 2018. We (The Braves) simply DO NOT have nearly enough information to know exactly what we have when it comes to our young starting pitching!
However, I feel that we are positioned to find out these answers during The 2018 Season. I’d rather DO NOTHING and just go with our youngsters in 2018 (while I was confident that Coppy would scour the offseason/The Winter Meetings looking for the ‘diamond in the rough’ type trades where we dumped our ‘garbage for gold’, like the Seattle Trades last year…..until I see who we hire as our next GM, my HOPE is that our next GM DOES NOT squander the talent Coppy accumulated in THE BEST Minor League System for ‘quick fix trades, like what happened in 1983-1985 when we GAVE AWAY Brett Butler AND Brooks Jacoby for Len Barker, lol)!
If we are going to contend in 2019 (I feel that A MUCH BETTER article to ponder would be “what needs to happen in 2018…for The Braves to be a Playoff Winner in 2019 WITHOUT losing Prospects”) the FOLLOWING needs to be answered:
1. Who RISES/ESTABLISHES themselves as potentially ready to compete/go 7 innings CONSISTENTLY/stay healthy MAINSTAYS for years to come (I know, asking a lot…however Maddux, Smoltz and Glavine ALONG with others The Braves acquired during our 15 year run of Division Titles filled these roles) during The 2018 Season?
Julio Teheran AND Mike Folty (as our current top 2 rotation members) both need to prove in 2018 that they DESERVE to be here/can be depended to be PRIME TIME starting pitchers! With BOTH Triple A AND Double A loaded with A PLETHORA of starting pitchers itching to show they are Major League Caliber starting pitchers, The Braves can afford to eventually trade one/both of them IF they arent able to show they are dependable TOR! Also, both of them being productive in 2018 would increase our ability to make a surprising playoff run in 2018!
Luis Gohara and Sean Newcomb need to show in 2018 that they HAVE POTENTIAL to develop into near TOR (anywhere from #2-#4 very good starting pitching types). I WOULD NOT put the pressure on them like I’m putting on Teheran AND Folty…because of their age/Major League experience! Both have LIVE arms with the ability to ‘hit and miss’ swings! The questions for both: can they stay healthy/keep the walks down/pitch 7 innings with some consistency/keep the ERA under 4?
With R.A. Dickey not being brought back (good move), the competition for the #5 spot is between Lucas Sims and Max Fried. In the long run, I DO NOT feel that Sims will be a starter on ANY Braves playoff team (given the talent we have in The Minors). However, depending on what happens with Fried, I could see Sims being our 5th starter in 2018. The questions with Fried are: can he stay healthy/pitch deep into games (in other words, not need 100 pitches to get to the 5th inning each start)/keep the walks down? Is Fried a #3-#4 type starter OR is he better suited to be an Andrew Miller type (who can pitch a couple of innings in high leverage situations in the 6th-7th or 7th-8th innings)? If Sims can pitch decent as a starting pitcher, he’ll be a prime candidate to be traded when our TRUE STUDS in The Minors start making their push to Atlanta (either at the end of 2018 or Spring Training of 2019)….like Mike Soraka, Kolby Allard and Tooki Tousiant (I’ll address my takes on those three…along with the likes of Joey Wentz, Bryce Wilson, etc. later on).
Injuries and variance (we simply DO NOT know how prospects will really adjust to Major League hitting UNTIL they have to face ML hitters consistently) are factors that make predicting outcomes HELLA TOUGH! That’s why it is HIGHLY IMPORTANT to not have all your eggs in one basket (in other words, not have your whole world crashing if your top 3-4 starting pitching prospects all get injured/flame out….because you have 4-5 more right behind them who are nearly just as good as them)!
Then there’s the bullpen (both in 2018 and long term). While A.J. Minter is the one prospect who has been slotted FROM DAY 1 to be a potential closer/important bullpen piece….in reality, most of those who excel in the bullpen in The Majors, tend to be failures as starters (whether injuries preventing them from consistently going 6-7 innings OR not being able to develop a 3rd pitch to consistently get out hitters, which is ESSENTIAL when going through a lineup 3 or 4 times a night). A proponent of keeping our Minor League starting pitching studs…..is being able to slot those who cannot be starters long term into the bullpen (potentially cheap alternatives to having to sign free agent closers/bullpen pieces).
Who knows if Folty, Gohara, Newcomb, Fried (I dont see Sims as being any type of effective bullpen piece on a playoff type team) will ultimately succeed as a starter OR high leverage bullpen piece? Who knows for sure how Soroka, Allard and Tousiant performs in Triple A in 2018….as well as Wentz, Wilson, etc in Double A and below? Also, we have a number of bullpen pieces in The Minors like Corbin Clouse who have shown that they can strike out a lot of hitters and close games (again, big difference between doing that in The Minors AND doing it in The Majors)!
Sure, as a Braves fan, I have HOPES! But the proof is in the pudding! I feel that I’ve made A SOLID ARGUMENT for holding pat and seeing what happens in 2018 with our pitching!
Now let’s address the offense:
1st base: Freddie Freeman. #3 hitter. Enough said!
2nd base: Ozzie Albies. Leadoff hitter. Albies is WAY FASTER/draws more walks/has a higher OBP/has more pop…than Ender Inciarte! If Snitker keeps Inciarte in The leadoff spot over Albies….he should be IMMEDIATELY FIRED! Albies should be our leadoff hitter for AT LEAST the next 10 years! I’m excited to see what kind of numbers he’s going to put up in the next three FULL SEASONS….while having a team friendly non-arbitration contract!
Shortstop: Dansby Swanson. #8 hitter. While I’m ‘hopeful’ that Swanson can improve on his poor hitting 2017 season, I feel that until he proves otherwise that he can be a really good hitter, keeping him in the #8 slot is best for The Braves (being able to draw walks to clear the pitchers spot, is a positive for a lineup). What’s more important, is that Swanson plays good defense and takes a team leader role with his hustle/intangibles that he provides!
3rd base: Platoon of Rio Ruiz/Johan Carmago #7 hitter. Strictly a one year stop gap. In the long run, I feel that Carmago’s future is that of a Martin Prado type role on a playoff team. However, for 2018, he should platoon with Ruiz (while giving Swanson, Albies a day off when needed). As far as 2019 for 3rd base, either Austin Riley tears it up in Triple A, showing with a late season 2018 call-up that he’s ready for Prime Time…OR…..The Braves should make A SERIOUS RUN at signing Manny Machado to a $35 mil a year type long term contract (having him hit clean-up behind Freeman would be AWESOME)!
Left Field: Matt Kemp. Clean-up. Unless our next GM can make some kind of miraculous trade where we dump Kemp’s contract without having to eat a significant portion of it…I’m in favor of actually keeping Kemp for 2018. When healthy, he can still hit for power/knock in runs! It isnt like we have someone who can hit cleanup for us at a reasonable payrate (if we were playoff contenders, sure, dumping him would make sense. But we’re not)! Keep Kemp for 2018 and try to keep him healthy. I feel that it will be MUCH EASIER to trade him after 2018 to an AL team in need of a productive DH, when he only has 1 year/$18.5 mil owed to him (San Diego is kicking in $3.5 mil of his $22 mil salary). Depending on Kemp’s productivity/health in 2018, will determine how much we have to eat (regardless, it’ll be MUCH EASIER to trade Kemp with only the 1 year left on his contract)! Assuming that we trade Kemp after The 2018 Season….I feel that ALSO making a push to sign Bryce Harper (who would bat #5 behind Machado in 2019) to a $35 mil a year type contract (to go with Machado) would CEMENT The Braves as playoff contenders FOR YEARS TO COME starting in 2019!
Center field: Ender Inciarte. #5 hitter. Long term, I see him eventually dropping to #7 slot. However, on The 2018 Braves, he should hit behind Kemp. I feel that Inciarte should work on hitting with a little more power (he has a little pop in his bat)…as opposed to trying be a slap hitter!
Right field: Ronald Acuna. #2 hitter. Whoever we hire as our GM…dude’s 1st move should be trading Markakis! At $10.5/1 year left on his contract, Markakis can still hit/get on base. Some team will see value in that (we dont even have to get back a lot). Trading Markakis opens up Right field for Acuna…who is an ABSOLUTE STUD! Acuna and Albies hitting #1-#2…..should provide Freddie Freeman with LOADS of RBI opportunities for the next 10 years!!!! Unreal the havoc BOTH of them can potentially provide opposing pitchers for the next 10 years (at least, lol)!
Catcher: Flowers/Suzuki. #6 hitter. Not too much to add here for 2018. However long term, a combination of how each of them does in 2018 AND how a number of our Minor League Catchers progress in The Minors in 2018 (going along with the ‘too many questions that need to be answered’ theme here, lol)…will determine how we should proceed at the catcher’s position BOTH in 2019 AND Long Term! I’m ‘iffy’ about investing huge financial numbers in a free agent catcher (perhaps a trade for a young prospect catcher, using a good pitching prospect OR one of our Major League Starting Pitchers who is GOOD but not in our long term plans….again, going along with my ‘too many questions that need to be answered’ theme here, lol)!
Proposed Line-up for 2018:
1. Ozzie Albies…2nd base
2. Ronald Acuna…Right field
3. Freddie Freeman…1st base
4. Matt Kemp…..Left field
5. Ender Inciarte….Center field
6. Flowers/Suzuki…Catcher
7. Ruiz/Carmago….Third base
8. Dansby Swanson…Shortstop
Starting Rotation
1. Julio Teheran
2. Mike Folty
3. Luiz Gohara
4. Sean Newcomb
5. Max Fried/Lucas Sims
Bullpen:
Other than A.J. Minter and Adrodys Vizcaino….it depends on health/performance in Spring Training. I have no idea who management invites/what minor trades are made/who can stay healthy!
Proposed 2019 Lineup:
1. Ozzie Albies…..2nd Base
2. Ronald Acuna….Right field
3. Freddie Freeman….1st base
4. Manny Machado…3rd base
5. Bryce Harper…..Left field
6. Flowers/Suzuki…Catcher (up in the air, lol)
7. Ender Inciarte….Center field
8. Dansby Swanson….Shortstop
Proposed 2019 Starting Rotation:
1. Julio Teheran (I feel that his contract AND his rebound in 2018 will keep him in Atlanta).
2. Luiz Gohara (his stuff should translate in a full season as our #2 starter)
3. Sean Newcomb/Mike Folty (should be interesting to see how both perform in 2018)
4. Mike Soroka (he should be ready by Opening Day 2019..and never look back, lol)
5. Kolby Allard/Tooki Tousiant/Max Fried (one of these three will hopefully RISE UP/SHOW that they are ready for PRIME TIME)!
Also, both Joey Wentz AND Bryce Wilson (along with a healthy Patrick Weigel) should all be pitching lights outs in Triple A….giving The Braves INSURANCE in case something happens (trade/injury/ineffectiveness)!
Other than A.J. Minter….it’s pointless to try and predict a 2019 bullpen, lol! Same with The Bench, lol!
As far as making it work financially with my proposed $35 mil a year contracts for each of Machado AND Harper….it can work IF our starting rotation (other than Teheran) are all making The Major League Minimum! Albies, Acuna and Swanson will all be making The Minimum as well! Inciarte will only be making $5 mil a year. It can work!
Sure, when our cheap players become eligible for arbitration, the payroll will go up! However….so will the team revenues (assuming we’re making The Playoffs AS EXPECTED)! Also, given Wentz and Wilson more than likely ready in 2020 for PRIME TIME….Teheran’s $12 mil 2020 salary could be expendable. If Christian Pache is ready by 2020…Inciarte’s contract could be expendable as well! If we keep drafting well…we’ll be able to have more flexibility when it comes to making trades/being able to sustain injuries OR sudden drop offs in productivity!
mj-2
Stopped reading 2nd paragraph on part about waiting to see who we hire as our next GM (Hint: Your wait was over like two weeks ago bro)
Anyone make it further?
paullentz1972
Dude, I had posted this two weeks ago in another forum (I simply forgot that I touched on our GM status). As you can tell, it’s a long winded post that I DID NOT want to ‘retype’. I should have re-read it before posting it on this thread. Obvious I know that we have a new GM now. You do know that people make mistakes, right?
chound
Lazy isn’t a mistake.
paullentz1972
I guess that you’ve ‘never’ been lazy? Dude, I admitted my error. Believe me, the next time I make a post, I’ll make sure that I proofread it 1,000 times and forward it to 1,000 others and make them proofread it before I finally submit it!
Why cant some people just accept someone admitting a mistake and say ‘ok dude, thanks for not being thin skinned (like most people online)/thanks for saying that you made a mistake (the mistake/lazy…..whatever dude….did you really need to take the time to make a post ‘pointing it out’?)!
I could take a cheap shot and say that many of you have ADHD (after all, if you’re at risk of having that vein that runs down your forehead BURST after coming across a 2nd paragraph on a post…then there’s NO WAY that you’re going to read what i posted all the way through…because you’ll be in danger of having a brain aneurysm)!
mj-2
Calm down. It was a joke on the novel you wrote
If you feel better I did read it all. You actually believe we will sign not just Machado, but Machado AND Harper.
Come on bro. This isn’t a video game where you force trades/signings through and build your AS team.
This is real life.
There. There is a REAL response to that novel you posted. Happy?
paullentz1972
I understand that it’s not a video game. However I’ll break it down for you to why I feel that The Braves CAN fit in signing BOTH Manny Machado AND Bryce Harper to $35 mil a year long term contracts into their payroll after The 2018 Season during Free Agency!
First, the payroll during The 2018 Season, if Braves Management decides to ‘go with the youngsters’ AND not make any significant moves that add to the payroll, will significantly decrease from approximately $125 mil in 2017…to around $100 mil (primarily because we let go Bartolo Colon, Jaime Garcia and R.A. Dickey, who accounted for approximately $31 mil in 2017…and will replace them with the likes of Luis Gohara, Sean Newcomb and either Max Fried or Lucas Sims…all of whom will be making The MLB Minimum in 2018). The reduction in The 2018 Payroll should, in my opinion, go towards NOT ONLY eating whatever we have of Nick Markakis’ last year/$10.5 mil contract (we’ll probably have to eat around $2-4 mil of it.) in a trade to open a spot for Ronald Acuna in Right Field…AS WELL as to what we have to eat of Matt Kemp’s final year/$18.5 mil for The 2019 Season (IF we can keep Kemp somewhat healthy in 2018 AND if Kemp hits between 20-30 homers in 2018…then NOT ONLY will Kemp have value to an AL team in need of a power hitting DH…BUT he’ll also be MUCH EASIER to trade because he’ll only have the one year left. I feel that we’ll probably have to eat around $6-8 mil of that final year…UNLESS Kemp just falls off The Earth and cant stay healthy in 2018. Worst case scenario, The Braves can budget the 2018 payroll savings to absorbing the release of Kemp after The 2018 Season….because I see no way for The Braves to contend in 2019 with an injury prone/bad fielding Kemp hitting 4th/play left field).
Second…..The young pitching during The 2018 Season HAS to develop/prove itself. At the beginning of The Season…our two mainstays (Teheran and Folty) both will be asked to anchor the staff AND prove that they are worthy to stay BEYOND The 2018 Season. Gohara, Newcomb and Fried (Sims IS NOT someone I want on a playoff contending team long term in my rotation) all will have to show SIGNIFICANT strides/development…because knocking on the door in Triple A are two pitchers (Mike Soraka AND Kolby Allard) who I feel will be our version of Greg Maddux and Tom Glavine for years to come. Both of them could very well be in Atlanta by The All-Star Break IF injuries/ineffectiveness plagues our rotation in any way! And right behind them in Double A…will be the likes of Kyle Wright (our version of John Smoltz)….and Tooki Tousiant. In High Class A…will be Joey Wentz and Bryce WIlson. To sum this up….The Braves are FREAKING LOADED with PRIME TIME ARMS. There is NO NEED WHATSOEVER…to spend any money on pitching in The Free Agent Market. We are positioned to have A HELLA CHEAP ROTATION (we could possibly trade BOTH Teheran and Folty..either by The Trade Deadline or The Offseason IF Gohara, Newcomb and Fried all pitch as expected AND if Soraka and Allard..and possibly Kyle Wright all push to be promoted to Atlanta before 2018 is up)…..FOR YEARS TO COME!
Third….with the increase revenues from BOTH Sun Trust Field AND the surrounding ballpark properties/development…I feel that it is hella reasonable to increase The 2019 Payroll to approximately $150 mil (that is if we want to be realistic about trying to push for a playoff run AND take advantage of a cheap pitching payroll to improve the area that we lack in The Minors….home run power!).
Now how would I ‘allocate’ spending $150 mil on The 2019 Braves (I’ll post it in the next post as soon as I finish typing it out, lol)?
paullentz1972
Here’s how:
Start with $150 mil for The 2019 Season.
Starting 8:
1. Ozzie Albies…2nd…. ($550k)
2. Ronald Acuna….RF….($550k)
3. Freddie Freeman..1st ($21 mil)
4. Manny Machado…3rd..($35 mil)
5. Bryce Harper…..LF…..($35 mil)
6. Tyler Flowers and Kurt Suzuki combo ($7 mil combined)
7. Ender Inciarte…CF ($5 mil)
8. Dansby Swanson….SS…($550k)
That’s $104.6 mil for our starting 8. Which leaves $45.4 mil left.
Starting 5 rotation.
1. Luis Gohara ($550k)
2. Sean Newcomb..($550k)
3. Max Fried…..($550k)
4. Mike Soraka…..($550k)
5. Kyle Wright…..($550k)
That’s a total of $2.7 mil for that starting five. Now currently Julio Teheran ($11 mil) and Mike Folty (arb eligible…approximately $6-$7 mil for 2019) would cost us approximately $17-18 mil total if we kept them. Also…we have Kyle Wright as a possible fast riser who may be ready to be in the rotation by beginning of 2019. In other words, The Braves have OPTIONS! If Teheran and Folty RISE UP in 2018….it will EITHER bode well for us in 2019 OR we’ll have HELLA TRADING CHIPS (to either restock the lower part of The Minors with prospects…OR fill holes in our bullpen/young starting catcher/bench). Regardless, for this exercise, I’ll assume we’re going with a young rotation in 2019.
Starting rotation…($2.7 mil)….total payroll of ($107.3) for 13 players so far…..leaves ($42.7 mil left).
Bullpen:
1. AJ Minter…..($550k)
2. Dan Winkler….($1.5 mil)
3. Adrodys Vizcaino….($4 mil)
4. Craig Kimbrel…..($18 mil)
5. Lucas Sims….($550k)
6..Jose Ramirez….($550k)
7.. ……………..($550k)
8……………….($550k)
First, I left the last two spots blank..because we have a number of young bullpen arms in The Minors (Double and Triple A) who I feel will rise up (like Corbin Clouse, Caleb Dirks, Josh Graham and Akeel Morris) who will compete for those last two spots. Second, I feel that we can fit in signing Craig Kimbrell ($18 mil) to help CEMENT the end of our bullpen.
Bullpen total….($26.25 mil)….total of ($133.55) for 21 players….($16.45 mil left) for 4 bench players.
Bench:
1. Johan Carmago….($550k)
2. Lane Adams……($550k)
3. eitther Flowers or Suzuki ($0.00…I’ve already accounted for them in The Starting 8 with their combined $7 mil salaries for 2019)
4. …………(to be determined….probably someone versatile who can start if an injury happens….at most, if a supersub type…around $5 mil a year).
Bench total…($6.1 mil)…….total of ($139.65 mil) for a 25 man roster)……leaves ($10.35 mil) left to EITHER fit in Teheran or Folty contract (if we want) OR we can forgo signing Kimbrel (and his $18 mil proposed 2019 contract) and spread it out to 2 or 3 very reliable (but not quite as dominant) relievers.
The point is…..our GM would have a lot of OPTIONS (because of the PLETHORA of young pitching talent that we have) to NOT ONLY fit in Machado and Harper into the payroll….BUT ALSO acquire Kimbrel as our closer.
One thing that many of you are not taking into account…is the potential HAVOC that Ozzie Albies AND Ronald Acuna are going to cause on the basepaths/batting at the top of The Braves order! Both of them are going to be pre-arbitration eligible for 2018, 2019 AND 2020! Those two could very well be our version of Jose Altuve AND Carlos Correa in our batting order! Freddie Freeman will have LOTS OF RBI opportunities in 2018 IF our manager, Brian Snitker, does the right thing and bat those two #1-#2 in our lineup! Speed, average and (especially for Acuna) IMMENSE POWER! Signing Machado and Harper to hit behind Freddie Freeman……with Albies and Acuna setting the table…..SICK! ABSOLUTELY SICK, lol!
So dude, I just didnt decide to ‘play video baseball’ when I originally made my “we should sign BOTH Machado AND Harper for 2019 and beyond! I thought it out THOROUGHLY…..and just DETAILED how it can fit into our 2019 Payroll!
Now you can disagree with ‘my projections’ on how effective some of these young players we have may end up being! I have no problem with that. But to totally dismiss this idea WITHOUT even seeing if it is a possibility…….shows your closemindedness! I get it..no one’s perfect. However at least I’ll take the time to point it out to you by explaining WHY, lol!
mj-2
This time I didn’t read all that. I don’t even need to for a response tbh. You obviously haven’t thought beyond 2019.
What happens when these guys all hit arb? Basically you’re asking the Braves to sell out 10 years for 2 or 3 seasons (at a higher than avg payroll even in those 2-3 years) where guys are all making league minimum
But there’s more…..
On top of that you expect a rotation of all pre-arb guys to come on and have an immediate playoff like impact.
Then to keep payroll from soaring to absurd heights before each of these players hits arb we will basically have to cut them all lose, “draft well enough” to replace them and keep the ball rolling with multiple classes of guys to accommodate your ridiculous signings.
What a way to handcuff the organization.
You don’t have a good idea, not even sort of. It’s not realistic. And quite frankly it’s incredibly short sighted despite the considerable amount of effort you clearly put in to this awful idea
Have a good day
paullentz1972
Dude..I have thought about how to handle POST 2019 Season regarding The Payroll….however I didnt post it in the last post…because it would take ANOTHER LENGTHY POST to explain what possible moves I would make.
First of all….after The 2019 Season, ONLY Dansby Swanson would be eligible for Salary Arbitration (among the prospects). After 2020, Ozzie Albies, Ronald Acuna, Luis Gohara, Sean Newcomb, Max Fried and AJ Minter would all be eligible. We’d have enough info by then to decide whether we want to keep those pitchers (I’m assuming that Alibes and Acuna are LOCKS, lol)….OR if we need to trade some of them to make room for THE 2nd WAVE of pitching prospects who are currently in Double A and High A. Also to consider, Mike Soraka and Kolby Allard would already be in the rotation, but not eligible for Salary Arbitration until after The 2021 Season…making only three slots available.
I feel that it is a VERY REALISTIC possibility that by The 2021 Season….our rotation will consist of 1. Mike Soraka. 2. Kolby Allard. 3. Luis Gohara. 4. Joey Wentz. 5. Bryce Wilson. (with Max Fried fulfilling an Andrew Miller-like role in our bullpen). Teheran will be traded to a team in need of quality (but not quite ace-like pitching)…Folty will either be our closer OR traded to a team (like Teheran was). Sean Newcomb will either be a high leverage bullpen piece OR traded (like Teheran and Folty were). The same fate awaits the rest of our quality pitching prospects who fall short of making what I feel will be THE BEST Starting Rotation for years to come! Sure, injuries/unexpected events could derail this projection of mine. That is why we HOLD ON to our PLETHORA of pitching depth for as long as we can (as well as stock up on it with astute trades/continue to draft EXTREMELY WELL, like we have since the 2015, 2016 and 2017 Drafts).
Also, Christian Pache (a highly touted centerfielder currently in Low Class A) should be ready by around 2020-2021…at which time the option of trading Ender Inciarte (whose team-friendly contract will be close to coming to an end) will present itself. We could either get back a controllable MLB piece/pieces OR more prospects for Inciarte…in addition to freeing up payroll to pay some of the arbitration eligible players.
Also, in the next few years, our budgeted payroll will increase (along with the revenues the team brings in.by being a CONSISTENT PLAYOFF TEAM).. We WILL NOT have a stagnant $150 mil payroll that isnt budgeted to rise each and every year. By 2022-2023…our payroll will be budgeted to increase towards $200 mil (which The Braves will be positioned to afford….because WINNING brings in more revenues)! So this harping by the likes of you about ‘having to slash payroll to make room for arbitration eligible players…is a total OVERREACTION!
I never said that it would be ‘totally easy’ to fit Machado and Harper into The Braves long term. I stated CLEARLY that a number of things would have to fall into place with our young prospects. However it IS NOT impossible to do so!
People like you ‘dismiss’ it…without even taking the time to process it….because you automatically assume it’s impossible. While in most cases it would seem that way…..The Braves have a UNIQUE SITUATION (given THE PLETHORA of young/cheap/potentially productive pitching prospects…to go along with the havoc that BOTH Albies and Acuna can cause hitting at the top of the batting order)…..ALONG with Freddie Freeman being a relative ‘bargain’ at $21 mil a year (for the next 4 seasons until the end of The 2021 Season)…..to form a potentially powerful/very good batting average #3-#5 middle of the order threesome in Freeman, Machado and Harper! With Albies and Acuna setting the table/both possessing high grade speed on the basepaths….our #3-#5 hitters would have A PLETHORA of RBI opportunities all season long!
Sure, some ‘tough’ decisions would have to be made regarding payroll come the 2021, 2022, 2023 seasons and onward! However, a GREAT GM would ABSOLUTELY RELISH such an opportunity….especially given the WEALTH of prospects The Braves have in our system.
A lot was made about the 12 International prospects (plus the 3rd rounder in The 2018 Draft) we lost last week. However, NONE of those guys were above Low Class A (they were all at least 3-4 years away…far from having a guarantee of making The Majors). Sure, it would have been nice to have those players as options to either trade or rise up in our system. However, our new GM will have plenty of time to use The Domestic Draft (along with any trades of established MLB players who get pushed out by our young talent…that can bring back young prospects to replenish the lower levels of The Minors) to re-stock our System!
If the prospects that we have at High Class A and above are as good as advertised…..we may be set for years to come!
Dude, we have no choice but to go The Free Agent route to address the one GLARING weakness that we have in our organization: Other than Freddie Freeman, we simply DO NOT have quality/dependable power in our lineup (Matt Kemp simply is too broken down to provide 30 homer-plus power on a yearly basis). Other than Ronald Acuna (whose more suited to hit #2 because of his speed AND potential to be our BEST hitter overall long term)…The Braves DO NOT have any Minor League prospects who can hit for power.
Instead of using our PRECIOUS pitching prospect capital to trade for power hitters…..I feel that it is BEST to spend money going after THE RIGHT, young, already productive power hitters via Free Agency after The 2018 Season. Manny Machado plays quality defense at 3rd….Bryce Harper can more than play good defense in Left Field. An outfield of Harper, Inciarte and Acuna would be a pitcher’s best friend (not only in the field…but also on offense).
It would be A SHAME to waste our young pitching…..on an offense that struggles to score runs! Why even build Sun Trust Field…IF Braves Management REFUSES to up the payroll when the time is right? A lot has to happen in 2018 for ‘the time to be right’ to occur after The 2018 Season ends. However I feel that if ‘the time is right’ after The 2018 Season ends….then The Braves would be FOOLS to not open up the purse strings and go after BOTH Machado and Harper with $35 mil a year offers! It would be HIGHLY WORTH IT to have both of them in The Braves lineup!
Again, you can disagree with my ‘projections’ regarding our young talent. Regardless, I made A SOLID argument for FITTING IN both Machado and Harper. It doesnt mean that I feel that my plan/projections are ‘fool proof’…I’m just saying that it is possible to make signing both work financially (both in 2019 AND long term)! Possible….not a guarantee!
mj-2
Lol Jesus the delusion is real
Unless the first sentence of your next post reads “Arthur Blank is going to buy the Braves before next winter” then don’t bother responding
You have a minimum of $150 mil payroll in 2019. Dig deep in your pea sized brain and ask yourself when the last time we even had a $130 mil payroll. Don’t answer me in a post about how “WE COULD DO IT ITS NOT UNREASONABLE” (for the love of god stop with the all caps. You type like a 12 year old, which actually may not be far off)
But no actually $150 mil is unreasonable for those of us living in reality. Liberty Media has never spent that. And this is the floor of the money you want to spend. Cause it will go up. Great that only a couple of them are arb eligible 2020. We are talking way beyond that. Your plan is beyond stupid like I said in that last post. You essentially want to just cut guys when they hit arb and hope 20 rookies/pre-arb players are competent enough to come in and make immediate impacts for the next 10 years to complement the other 5 guys making up 90% of the payroll.
Sorry man you need a team. Look at the Angels and Mike Trout. You can’t just throw a bunch of garbage in and think a team of 90% prospects surrounded by Machado, Harper, and Freeman will be good enough to win consistently.
You don’t need to explain further I know exactly what you want to do and I’m telling you it’s the worst idea I’ve ever heard.
When Arthur Blank takes over you can dream of maybe tacking on two $35 mil salary players. Until then you’re just living in fantasy land.
I’ll tell ya what, if the Braves sign both of them I’ll find you and PayPal you my entire life savings. That’s how far gone your idea is
Got it? Good
paullentz1972
Dude, you really didnt comprehend what I said. In 2017…our payroll was $130 mil (go look on Baseball Prospestus)…on a team that was not really expected to contend (I know that management ‘acted like’ The Braves were trying to contend by signing Colon and Dickey (as well as trade 3 BS prospects for Jaime Garcia)…(basically placating weakminded fans into believing that with a new ballpark, The Braves could actually ‘contend’ for a playoff spot in 2017). However I NEVER believed that 2017 was the year to contend. Our prime pitching prospects were too far away.
What set the rebuild back two years….was the ‘first wave’ of pitching prospects (Matt Wisler and Aaron Blair included) showing by 2016 that they WERE NOT ready/not capable of being at least competent MLB starting pitchers! If those two were at least on the level of Teheran and Folty…then The Braves could have went after only one decent front line starter in Free Agency after The 2016 Season…which would have given The Braves at least some hope to compete for a playoff spot this past season.
However, Blair and Wisler FLOPPING in 2016 set The Braves playoff hopes back two seasons. Acquiring Colon, Garcia and Dickey were basically one year stop gaps to give Newcomb, Fried (and surprisingly Gohara, because he ended up rising from High A to The Majors in less than a full 2017 Season) time to make The Majors!
Mike Soraka and Kolby Allard both showed in 2017 that they could easily DOMINATE Double A ball…..putting both in position to open 2018 in Triple A! Both will be pushing, with strong performances during the 1st half of 2018 in Triple A….to challenge for a spot in The Atlanta Rotation. Behind them in Double A are Kyle Wright (a candidate to fast track his way to Atlanta by the end of 2018)…along with Joey Wentz and Bryce Wilson in High Class A (easy candidates to be in Atlanta by the end of 2019/early 2020.
I’ve NEVER seen this collect of young pitching talent on one team! Not only that…but Ozzie Albies and Ronald Acuna are both HELLA TALENTED/TOOLSY top of the batting order potential prime time players!
Normally, what you stated about NOT trading guys when they are eligible for arbitration….would make sense…because throughout the history of MLB, most teams DID NOT have this type of collection/hoarding of young/talented arms! However, The Braves System is OBSCENELY loaded!
We could end up trading some VERY GOOD ARMS who could end up doing pretty good on other teams….because the ones we end up keeping could very well end up being GREAT TOR pitching gems for Atlanta!
Atlanta doesnt want just ‘good’ arms. They want GREAT starting pitchers who can get us wins in the postseason on a long term basis (I know, so do most teams…however The Braves are positioned with this collection of talent to possibly make it happen).
Given that we had a $130 mil payroll on what turned out to be A BAD 2017 team…..I see NO PROBLEM with expecting a $150 mil payroll (that also increases each year thereafter) for a team that is expected to compete for a playoff spot…starting with The 2019 Season.
I pointed out that it is possible to sign Machado, Harper AND Kimbrel during Free Agency after The 2018 Season….as well as make the numbers work in subsequent years when our young players start becoming arbitration eligible. Julio Teheran and Mike Folty…while decent pitchers who should have nice MLB careers…ARE NOT pitchers I want pitching in meaningful playoff games for The Braves when we begin our long term playoff run! When we end up trading them (whether trade deadline in 2018/The 2018 Offseason/trade deadline 2019/2019 offseason)……they will be replaced by any number of our young pitching prospects with much higher upside. Their departure will not only provide payroll relief…but also either fill a need on the roster OR help restock our Minor League System. Same with Ender Inciarte IF Christian Pache develops as expected.
I;m not saying that it will exactly go down this way……just presenting a possibility. I’m not arrogant enough to assume that things will go down as I hope….however I feel that I’ve made a decent argument for this being a realistic possibility.
Regardless……other than Freddie Freeman…our offense lacks middle of the order power (again, hitting Acuna 4th/5th in this lineup…would be in effect WASTING the speed that he could provide hitting in front of Freeman). Austin Riley is at least one year away (it isnt realistic to expect him to start hitting 30 plus homers right away)….Alex Jackson is at least 2 years away (him developing into at least a decent MLB catcher is a big if). The only want that we’re going to acquire the kind of power that The Braves need hitting behind Freeman….is via Free Agency (I do not want to see our pitching capital used to acquire hitters via trade).
Whyamihere
I stopped reading after the 2nd word in all caps.
realgone2
This is the infamous paul lentz who got booted from the Braves’s AJC blog years ago for being a troll and making ridiculous comments like this. I’m shocked he is still around on the web.
bravos14
I’m just glad to see the mostly positive post, it’s time to move on from the “gloom and doom” days. Imo, AA will be conservative this off season, sure he will do his due diligence to move Kemp, M. Adams, Johnson, and Markakis, but what has really changed since the trade deadline or waiver period? Nothing much, their value has reduced some for the Braves, therefore slightly easier to move but not enough in my opinion to move. Bottom line, I think we’re stuck with at least three of the four, but let’s try and have a positive outlook for 2018. Let’s imagine a trimmed down, healthy, limber Matt Kemp, a consistent machine in Nick Markakis, a power bat off the bench in Matt Adams and a veteran presence in the bull…..sorry, I can’t make myself finish that last one.
I feel that the team needs one free agent signing, and one or two current players to make a big step up in performance and this team could seriously compete. It could be one of the young starting pitchers or Albies or Swanson or Camargo or Ruiz or just maybe, maybe Acuna starts opening day and begins a Hall of Fame career. All I know for sure is the disappointment I’ve felt over the leadership of the Braves organizations pales in comparison to the hope and excitement that already lives inside me.
Happy Holidays Braves Country
steelerbravenation
Anybody think a Kemp for Tulo deal could work with Tulo holding down 3rd until Riley is ready and Kemp DHing in Toronto. Maybe Toronto getting back a B level prospect in order to eat some of Tulo’s salary ?
mj-2
I can’t get on board with that. Kemp only has 2 more years while Tulo has 3 (plus a 4th that has to be bought out at $4 mil). While Kemp isn’t ideal, he’s also better than Tulo as well. Markakis will open up Acuna’s spot next year anyway in a worst case scenario. We’d end up with a hole in our other corner outfield, which yeah you can argue is easier to fill. But overall just too many negatives to me. If you want Acuna in that bad and really can’t wait just bench Markakis rather than forcing us into an even worse contract with Tulo to open up a spot for him a year earlier.
terrymesmer
> Matt Adams
Cleveland needs a first baseman. Could be a trade opportunity there.
Gary Rogers
AA could trade with Jays/////Markakis,Wisler and Swanson FOR Stroman and Bichette.\\\\\\\\\\Sign T.Frazier for 3yrs. 29mil.\\\\\\\\\\Trade Teheran,Sims andSeymour to Texas for W.Calhoun,H.Crouse and M.Bush..\\\ Trade Kemp(pay8mil.) ,Muller and Ynoa to Boston for Swihart and J.Cosart. Camargo can play SS. LINEUP 2018====InciarteCF,Albies2B,Freeman1B,Donaldson3B,AcunaRF,CalhounLF,FlowersC, CamargoSS Rotation Stroman-Gohara-Folty-Fried-Newcombe