Here’s the latest hot stove buzz from FanRag Sports’ Jon Heyman, from his weekly collections of American League notes and National League notes…
- Bartolo Colon feels he can play “just one” more season. A return in 2018 would make it 21 seasons in the big leagues for Colon, who turns 45 in May. The veteran has become a fan favorite around baseball thanks to his unlikely late-career revival, though Colon finally started to look his age in 2017, posting a 6.48 ERA over 143 innings with the Twins and Braves. Despite his recent struggles, Colon seems to be a likely candidate to land a low-cost MLB contract with a team next year, given his lengthy track record.
- The Rangers are considering issuing a qualifying offer to Andrew Cashner. This would ensure that Texas received some draft pick compensation if Cashner rejected the QO, though given the Rangers’ need for pitching, they could welcome the chance to bring back Cashner on a one-year deal. Still, since the QO carries a hefty cost of $18.1MM, it is still a little surprising that Texas is considering issuing one to Cashner, who is a decent candidate to accept. MLBTR’s Jeff Todd recently covered Cashner’s interesting offseason case in a Free Agent Stock Watch piece, outlining the many pros and cons suitors face in weighing a Cashner this winter.
- In less-surprising qualifying offer news, the Royals are a virtual lock to extend the QO to Lorenzo Cain but aren’t planning to issue one to Jason Vargas. Tommy John surgery sidelined Vargas for much of his three-year stint in Kansas City, though he was mostly effective (4.16 ERA, 6.7 K/9, 2.31 K/BB rate) over 179 2/3 IP in 2017. Given that TJ surgery and the fact that Vargas turns 35 in February, he’d seem to be a good candidate to accept a qualifying offer, and the Royals probably don’t want an $18.1MM salary on the books as they embark on a possible rebuild.
- There apparently haven’t been any talks between the Angels and Justin Upton about his opt-out clause, which Heyman finds “interesting.” There isn’t any immediate rush, of course, as Upton doesn’t need to make his decision until three days after the World Series is over. “Most see it as a very close call” as to whether Upton will actually opt out of the four years and $88.5MM remaining on his deal given the mutual interest between he and the Angels. The possibility exists that the two sides could work out an extension to tack another year or two beyond the current end of Upton’s deal, though the lack of talks indicates that scenario has yet to be explored.
- The Angels initially tried to acquire Parker Bridwell from the Orioles last year before finally landing the right-hander in April for what Heyman describes as “just a small amount of cash.” This minor deal at the time ended up being a steal for the Halos, as Bridwell delivered a 3.64 ERA over 121 innings, starting 20 of his 21 appearances for Los Angeles.
- According to one Marlins player, the Cardinals reportedly expressed interest in Marcell Ozuna, Dee Gordon and Brad Ziegler this summer, with Ziegler’s name surfacing after Trevor Rosenthal was lost to Tommy John surgery in late August. The Cards’ interest in Ozuna (and other Miami outfielders) is known, though this is the first time Gordon and Ziegler have been linked to St. Louis. It makes sense that the Cards would’ve checked in on Ziegler given their sudden need for relief help after Rosenthal went down, though it remains to be seen if Ziegler would be a trade target this winter as the team looks to bolster its pen. Ziegler has a hefty $9MM salary in 2018, though the Marlins could eat some of that money to make a deal happen. Gordon would be an even pricier addition at $38MM owed through the 2020 season, plus a $14MM vesting option for 2021.
formerlyz
probably too late for the Marlins to get what I was thinking about early in the season from the Cardinals for Ozuna. Weaver looked really good in the big leagues, so i doubt he is available at this point…
redsfan48
Ozuna’s value certainly went up this season though
formerlyz
True, but i was thinking Ozuna, and maybe a reliever, for Weaver, Bader, Gallen, and maybe Arozorena. That was in early June…no way would that be on the table from the Cardinals end now. Those guys on their side gained a lot of value themselves, while Ozuna comes with less control than he would have…As a Marlins fan, I feel Ozuna is our best trade chip, maybe that’s Yelich, but I wouldn’t move Yelich or Realmuto, and they need to get good value back for him.
cygnus2112
I’d be down with all 3 but I still think another bat is needed at a corner infield position preferably replacing the baserunning sloth who does a great job taking a walk, but doesn’t really excel in any other area…
timyanks
why does another bat have to be a corner infielder. why not a power hitting anybody?
TheGreatTwigog
Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t the Rangers only get compensation now if Cashner signs for more than $50MM, because of the new CBA? I’d say he has close to zero odds of making that much money, so it’s really not worth the risk of paying him $18MM next season.
Whyamihere
no, they get a pick regardless what his deal is for, as long as he signs before the draft.
GeauxRangers
Also wouldn’t surprise me that much if he got $50+ million
jbigz12
Would surprise me if he got $50mil. 3/36 is about as high as I can see him going for.
tharrie0820
Needs to be $50m+ for a pick after the first round like it used to be. Think it’s a pick after the 2nd normally, and after the third with the luxury tax shenanigans
ilikebaseball 2
Rangers are neither over the luxury tax threshold or a revenue sharing team. If Cashner were to sign else where they would get a pick after Competitive Balance Round B. Amount of deal does not matter.
gojira15
Marlins should try to put a combination of Chen, Ziegler and Tazawa in any deal for their top players if they need to shed salary. Chen’s deal looks really bad and may not be moveable.
If STL wants Ozuna, throw in Taz and Ziegler. It might lessen the return, but I think you could still get Bowman, Flaherty, Diaz, Kelly, Grichuk, Piscotty, Sierra and Alcantara. Well, a combination of them, not all of them.
formerlyz
I think Ziegler still has value. Mattingly used him wrong all season, and he only had stretches where he was bad. His GB% was still in that elite range it always is. Obviously, money would still need to be eaten, but I think he is actually movable…
Tazawa was better after he came off the DL at the end of the season, but he’s done. His time in Boston took everything that was left in that arm. He can still get the fastball up to 94 when he reaches back, but his split isnt nearly what it used to be, and it feels like every fly ball is a HR. I thought maybe Marlins Park could help him in that area, but it didn’t. That’s dead money…
As for Chen, I would see if he can at least pitch at the beginning of the season. He looked much better this year before he got injured again. If he is healthy enough to pitch, he could maybe try to get back some value, although I doubt that. The Marlins also desperately need innings from SPs, so if he is healthy enough to pitch I could see them being cool with him going out there for us.
But, I could see someone like Prado or Gordon being packaged, with some money being eaten, with someone like Bour and/or Straily. I wouldn’t want to attach anything to Ozuna b/c he is clearly our best trade chip
gojira15
Good point. How much money the Marlins are wanting to eat could play a factor. How much do they need to cut payroll? Have to wait and see I guess. Bour is great, but he’s still cheap, and the market for left-handed 1B sluggers is saturated with options.
I think is ownership can tag Taz on another team, they will.
formerlyz
I’d be willing to eat $3-4 million per on Prado, and probably $2-3 million per on Dee, and probably half of Ziegler’s remaining contract. If the Marlins could move Tazawa onto someone, that would be pretty impressive, but I highly doubt it. Id rather eat the remaining money then package him with one of our only trade chips for lesser returns. Now that Loria is gone, i see these as possibilities.
In reality, payroll isn’t the reason for this. The issue is that the Marlins have no pitching, have no depth, have no farm system, and have no way to obtain pitching. Ozuna is a free agent in a couple of years, and Stanton has 3 years left. Reality is that it’s not sustainable, regardless of the fact that this is the best lineup we’ve probably ever had, and we can’t get over the top to make the playoffs without at least 3 more SPs
formerlyz
When talking about Tazawa, that’s supposed to be *than lol…it looks like I essentially said the same thing about packaging him. I was trying to say I’d rather eat the money entirely, either by releasing him or letting him ride it out, than package him with someone for lesser return
gojira15
I agree in general. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. If they are desperate to cut salary, they won’t want to eat any of it. Terrible baseball decisions may be made for short-term profitability and long-term sustainability. If salary isn’t as big of deal as some have made it out to be, we may see Dee and Prado plus a reliever on the go, not necessarily to the same place. I’m very interested to watch it unfold.
timyanks
dream on, goji
gojira15
What part is so far-fetched?
Kane U.
As a Cards fan, I’m game!
Stromalama 2
I don’t see the Cards giving up Kelly or Alcantara if they’re having to take on a bunch of added and unwanted salary.
gojira15
Really? You wouldn’t give up Alcantara with some spare parts like Diaz, Grichuk, and Bowman for Ozuna? I think Ziegler is a great bounce-back candidate too. Ozuna is controlled for two more seasons and certainly won’t make what he’s worth salary-wise. The Cards could just release Taz if he’s terrible in spring. St. Louis has no spot for Diaz or Grichuk, Bowman is an average-at-best reliever, and the Cards have financial room to take the $17 MM or so owed to the two Miami relievers.
The only loss to the Cards is Alcantara, but they already have a slew of young arms. They can take the hit.
Stromalama 2
I meant Kelly and Alcantara. I definitely do something like that.
mlb1225
Colon needs to sign with a national league team. He can try and get another home run in a farewell season.
hiflew
I foresee a similar deal to that of Jamie Moyer or Roy Oswalt. A 1 year deal with the Rockies that will possibly end with a June or July retirement.
calikid13
Marlins wanting to dump salary could work for the Cardinals in two ways:
Something similar to
STL gets
Yelich, WY Chen, and Ziegler (Full contracts)
MIA gets
Flaherty, Grichuk, Sierra, and Fernandez.
Or…
STL gets
Stanton
MIA gets
Alcantara, Mayers, and Woodford
gojira15
I think attaching Chen to any trade will drive the value down considerably.
calikid13
Hence, I used the words “something similar.” That first deal would likely have been the max the Cardinals should go. Chen may not be a completely lost cause. Especially if the Cardinals revamp Chen similar to Lohse.
jbigz12
The last thing the cardinals need is another 15-20 hr hitter. You’re not getting flaherty, weaver, Reyes or Kelly if you’re including Chen and Ziegler anyway. You’d be looking at some pair of O’Neill Hudson, grichuk, piscotty, Bader, Alcantra as your return. No way you’re getting top talent if you’re taking on 2 bad deals. Or at least 1.5 bad deals
gojira15
Marcell Ozuna hit 37 HR and slugged about .540
Rodcowboy
As a Card fan I’d like to see a real blockbuster deal. Just a pipe dream but Cards get
Stanton
Ozuna or Yelich
Bour
Marlins get
Reyes
Pham or Kelly
Carpenter
J Martinez
Bader or Sierra
Piscoty
sheriff or Diaz
Or something pretty similar.
mlb1225
So by the end of next year (2018), what star players that are on The Marlins now, won’t be a Marlin?
terry g
All of the above. My bet is the new owners will do a complete rebuild.
mlb1225
If they do an all of the above rebuild, they’ll have a very good farm system.
kbarr888
………And an even smaller fan base
kbarr888
If the Marlins do a full rebuild…. I’m guessing that they’re expecting to rebuild their fan base also. This team almost made the playoffs…. this team had a lot of fun playing together this year….. busting them up is probably the stupidest thing the new owners could do.
The Marlins have 3 more years of Stanton if they choose to keep him and pay him $25 Mil/year. They should bite the bullet and add a few players and try to make the playoffs for at least the next two years.
lesterdnightfly
“This team almost made the playoffs…. ”
Er, 20 games back in the division, and 10 games back to even tie for the 2nd WC is a pretty broad “almost”.
I almost won the Powerball. Just needed 4 more of those little numbers….
thegreatcerealfamine
It’s if Stanton “chooses” not the team..”rebuild the fan base also” where there’s so little of one now…
EndinStealth
Rebuild the fan base? Heck they don’t show when the team is winning. Move to Vegas.
formerlyz
We need AT LEAST 3 SPs, and a couple of bullpen arms, and we have no depth…they’d have to spend another $50-70 million or so to realistically give themselves a chance, o r they’d have to get lucky with a cheap option, and they haven’t even given themselves a chance in that area over the last couple of years, especially this year. The writing is on the wall. Loria did his usual part way thing, plus we lost Fernandez. Window got significantly closer to shutting. If we play it out the next couple of years, we will be very bad for a very long time. Getting out ahead of everything at least gives them a chance to turn things around in the next couple of years…
As I said, the Marlins waited too long to move guys, and now they’re stuck with more dead money after Volquez TJ surgery. I personally wouldn’t trade Stanton, Yelich, or Realmuto, but if they get something significant back for them, it probably has to be done at this point
formerlyz
To be fair, they were 2.5 games out of the 2nd WC before losing 17 of 19 in September
soggycereal
To be fair, they lost 17 of 19 in September.
Dookie Howser, MD
If Ziegler’s name was brought up when the Cards lost Rosenthal this summer, how can this also be the first time Ziegler’s name has been linked to STL?
Kslaw
You read that incorrectly
jaysfan77
I can see the jays all over Dee Gordon, it was rumoured during the season. If they take on all his salary they could live with the prospects going back I would think.
mlb1225
What do you think The Marlins would get in return.
formerlyz
As a Marlins fan, I’ll take any arm anywhere somewhat close to the big leagues. If the Jays take on the salary, probably would take less
jaysfan77
A couple middling prospects.
thegreatcerealfamine
Jays need to jettison players and rebuild…
jaysfan77
I think a retool will be fine for next year.
soggycereal
After next year all you have is a bunch of middle-aged guys with 50MM combined on their contracts who don’t produce and take up 40 man spots.
Solaris601
Marlins ownership better get busy establishing a front office. Michael Hill’s role remains undefined, so there really is no one in place who can even make a trade at this point.
SupremeZeus
Jeet is waiting until the Yankees get bounced before he can announces the poaching of his handpicked yes men.
stretch123
Ozuna, Ziegler (with 4 mil in cash) for Tyler O’neil and Jack Flaherty.
gojira15
Marlins can do better for Ozuna. Deal makes more sense is STL takes on more deadweight salary.
kbarr888
Include Prado & Chen so the Marlins can pay Stanton for 3 more years…..lol
kbarr888
Stretch must be a Cardinal fan.
Flaherty had a cup of coffee in September and didn’t really do very well.
O’Neill has been pounding the ball in the minors but is completely unproven in the bigs.
Ozuna has been improving every year and was practically an MVP candidate this season.
Paying 4 million towards Ziggler’s salary is about 50% of what he’s owed.
At a minimum, the cards would have to take Prado and his entire salary to even begin to make that trade close.
gojira15
Which reminds me how not great that Prado extension looked from the beginning. And then management calling him all untouchable. I didn’t get it. Only two years and $28.5 MM left on his contract though. He could still be a solid player if healthy.
EndinStealth
Flaherty would by far be the best piece coming from the Cardinals. O’Neil will be a bust. All power and lots of Ks. That’s why the Ms gave up on him.
hiflew
Yeah he will definitely be a bust, just like that all power and lots of Ks guy Aaron Judge.
EndinStealth
Or Carter your pick.
formerlyz
He is actually a Marlins fan, but trying to not overly value a player everyone knows the Marlins have to trade at some point. He might also be higher on Flaherty than I am. If the Marlins took that deal from the Cardinals, I’d be pretty frustrated
CompanyAssassin
You must not have seen Luke Weaver in the 2016 season. Extremely similar to Flaherty’s season. High ERA, needed a lot of fine tuning, was a late addition for bullpen/rotation help. Flaherty will be great, he just needs to work out a few issues.
soggycereal
If he was traded he wouldn’t have the same pitching coach that helped Weaver to the point he’s at now.
outinleftfield
Sometimes you look at things Heyman wrote and you know that they are complete BS that he wrote just to keep his name in front of baseball fans.
Cashner is not getting a QO and the Rangers are not even considering it. He will be lucky to get a multi-year deal that is much over the QO. Maybe 2/$20mm. That is no where near the $50 mm he would need to sign for in order for the Rangers to get compensation.
It’s not a close call and no one I listen to or watch or read has said anything other than Upton will definitely opt out. Some, including LA media and his own brother, have said that he is considering an extension with the Angels, which means that the team and Upton have at least discussed the possibility.
The Bridwell trade has been discussed ad nauseum in O’s media and blogs. Bridwell had been designated for assignment and the amount of money changing hands or the PTBNL was dependent on Bridwell’s performance according to several people quoted in articles about the trade back in April. I would say that since he performed well it was not “just a small amount of cash”.
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
Answer this question if no QO for Cashner why didn’t they trade him? ANYTHING would have been better than losing him for nothing. Don’t say “They can re-sign him” because trading him wouldn’t have barred them from doing that.
aff10
They were doing that on-the-fence contend thing that you hate so much
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
Mmhm. And how’d that work out? They miss the playoffs and are now set to lose Cashner, Gonzalez and whoever else is a free agent for no return.
Wainofan
Marlins and cards match up so well for trade, hard to imagine some deal not getting made. Wonder if they have guts for major trade, cards getting Stanton yelich Ziegler and Gordon, taking on all salary. Marlins get grichuk, Diaz, kelly, bader, flaherty, and one more prospect such as Sierra, O’Neill, gomber something like that. Hard to swallow for both teams which usually means decent trade. Marlins shed a ton of salary, get younger and start to rebuild farm. Cards lineup-
Gordon
Yelich
Stanton
Gyorko
Fowler
Carpenter
Yadi
De Jong
Pitcher
gojira15
I think the Fish can get more by spreading their pieces amongst other teams. Also, you forgot Tommy Pham, 2017’s best Cardinal. Is he going back to Miami too in this deal? That would make more sense.
timyanks
too bad pham isn’t a first baseman
Wainofan
Sure I’d sell high on Pham on a heartbeat. I like him but due to his eyes and health, I don’t see him maintaining his 2017 level of play. I agree about spreading there pieces out but a package of them might be more enticing to team to take on more salary which is marlins main goal
formerlyz
Marlins main goal is to add talent to the organization and rebuild the farm system
formerlyz
I must be reading this wrong
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
Rangers have to QO Cashner at this point. Otherwise they have no excuse for not trading him.
aff10
Ryan, legitimate question man, even if it was a mistake not to trade Cashner in July (and I don’t think it was, but I’ll bite here), why would they compound that mistake by offering an undeserving player a QO for public relations’ sake?
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
Because when you aren’t contending, every pending free agent MUST be traded or QO’d. Don’t say the Rangers were contending. If that were true they wouldn’t have traded Darvish.
You say not trading Cashner wasn’t a mistake? Explain how.
aff10
I just don’t think they could’ve gotten anything of consequence for Cashner. I do understand what you’re saying about picking a direction and sticking to it, I actually agree for the most part, but likely all they could’ve pulled for Cashner was a power arm in A-ball with control problems. It was extremely unlikely that they were contenders, so passing on a prospect of Calhoun’s caliber to pursue a 1/20 chance of making the postseason would’ve been inexcusable. Passing on a 35 FV prospect to take a 1/25 chance at getting there is worthwhile, at least in my opinion.
Still though, you didn’t really answer my original question. They can’t go back in time to trade Cashner now. Why not just say “holding him didn’t work, oh well,” rather than offering $18M to try to justify the decision?
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
Well if I were the GM we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Cashner would be pitching for someone else. I’ll take my chances on that power arm in A-ball with control problems and I’ll re-sign Cashner in the offseason like what the Yankees did with Chapman.
And I don’t agree that passing on Calhoun was inexcusable. A championship is more valuable than any prospect so if they thought they could have won a championship this year then they wouldn’t have traded Darvish in the first place. Like, that is the reason the Cubs didn’t trade Arrieta. They could have gotten a great prospect for a guy they are about to lose for nothing but a comp pick but they didn’t trade him because they wanna win.
hiflew
Nobody was giving a “great” prospect for Andrew Cashner. They might have gotten a lower end top 30 guy from a middle to weak system, but those guys are a dime a dozen. Yes they lost out on getting a prospect for Cashner, but they can sign many similar prospects as minor league free agents this offseason. I think you are just overvaluing him here. MAYBE you get something similar to what the Phillies got for Hellickson. The Rangers are not going to miss that “haul.”
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
Not overvaluing him at all. I’m saying that whatever the best return for Cashner that they could have gotten was, they should have taken it. I’ll take my chances on that lower end top 30 guy over a few extra starts from Andrew Cashner that might get me an extra win or two in a lost season. Not to mention trading Cashner would have saved the Rangers ~$3m.
CompanyAssassin
The only players on the Marlins that the Cardinals should pursue is either Ozuna or Stanton. They shouldn’t gamble on Ziegler, and Wong has already basically been decided as the everyday second baseman so Gordon is unnecessary. Yelich is a good player but another on-base heavy player over power. The Cards need that big bat that they can start intimidating other teams with, not light hitters. They could go after two such players in free agency, JD Martinez and Eric Hosmer. Couple that by trading Carp, Grichuk, and Garcia, possibly in a trade for Alex Colomé, resigning Nicasio and signing Jake Arrieta, the Cardinals have a super team, all mostly in money which the Cardinals have.
LF Fowler, CF Pham, RF Martinez, 4th Piscotty, 3B Gyorko/Diaz, SS Dejong, 2B Wong, 1B Hosmer/Jose Martinez, C Molina/Kelly. Lineup of Fowler, Pham, Dejong, Martinez, Hosmer, Molina, Gyorko/Diaz, Wong, Pitcher.
calikid13
Definitely no to Hosmer. I’d rather have Martinez if I had to.
stl_cards16 2
Hosmer is not a hitter any team fears. He has to be the most overrated player in baseball. I have no idea why some Cardinal fans think signing his is any upgrade at all.
formerlyz
What about Ozuna, Barraclough, Ellington, Nicolino, and Ziegler+ $4.5 million for Bader, Gallen, Gomber, Arozarena, and Helsley? Is that too many prospects in AA or higher going back? Would it have to be reworked to include Flaherty instead of 1-2 others? Would the Marlins have to include someone like Conley b/c of less control on Ozuna than if they would have traded him during the season?
cmancoley
no way in hell the marlins accept that
formerlyz
Well, I’m a Marlins fan lol…Ozuna has 2 years of control remaining
cardinal steve
I would think that the Cardinals’ interest in Gordon has diminished with the way Wong finished the year. I could totally see the Cardinals kicking the tires on him after Wong was sent down to AAA but when he came back up he was the player everyone hoped he’d be. It seemed like a rude awakening for him and whatever wrinkles he had were ironed out. That’s a testament to the hitting coach in Memphis too. I’d love to see them promote him and let Mabry go. I love Mabry but I don’t think he’s getting the job done. I wish Big Mac was still on the staff….and my goodness do they miss Oquendo. If I were Mo/Girsch/Dewitt, I’d be doing whatever I can to get the Secret Weapon back on the big league staff.