Blue Jays general manager Ross Atkins met with reporters (including Sportsnet.ca’s Ben Nicholson-Smith and MLB.com’s Gregor Chisholm) today to discuss his team’s season and how the Jays plan to move forward going into the winter. Some highlights…
- The Jays will be “open to trades” and “open to any possible way we can make our team better,” Atkins said, stressing the need for added depth and versatility. The GM reiterated that the Jays aren’t looking to trade from their Major League roster unless they find a deal that improves the big league team.
- The Blue Jays want to “add one impact arm and one impact position player for sure,” though Atkins wasn’t necessarily sure that the position player would play right field, which is the only clear opening in the lineup. Teoscar Hernandez has “certainly earned the right” to compete for the everyday right field job in the wake of an impressive September. The “impact arm” also could be either a starter or a relief pitcher.
- Lack of team speed “is a clear issue for us,” though one that Atkins admitted is “really hard to [address] in free agency” given that most of the available veterans are generally on the older side and lacking in quickness.
- Middle infield is an area of concern, as “we can’t rely that we will have an absolutely healthy Troy Tulowitzki and Devon Travis for the entire year, and we need to build depth around them.” Injuries limited Tulowitzki and Travis to just 116 games combined last year, and both players have exhibited a lack of durability over the last few seasons.
- Atkins confirmed that the Jays will not be exercising their end of Jose Bautista’s mutual option for 2018. (Sportsnet.ca’s Shi Davidi recently reported that Bautista was informed of the team’s decision a few weeks ago.) It is “very unlikely,” Atkins said, that Bautista will return to the Jays even on a smaller deal in 2018, though the door isn’t closed on the longtime slugger eventually returning to the franchise. “When he comes back here, he will be celebrated in a very strong way,” Atkins said.
- No changes are coming to the coaching staff, and there weren’t any strong rumblings about a possible managerial change, Atkins confirmed that John Gibbons would also return to the dugout. “I feel strongly that he’s a part of our solution, and I love going to work with him every day,” Atkins said about the manager.
Kevin McKeon
Try getting Cutch, CarGo, or Carlos Gomez in free agency. Then go for Dee Gordon and Zack Cozart for middle IF. Then go for Lynn, Cobb, or Arrieta. Get rid of Travis,Bautista, and Martin. Pick up Lucroy or Ianetta for Catcher or trade Donaldson for Molina, Carpenter, and Wacha
handy_andy86
I admire the passion of potential additions and subtractions. Martin has 2-3 years left on his contract at 20m per so moving him would be difficult. I don’t see the free agents coming to a team that is interpreted in team friendly contracts. Would love to see the Donaldson proposals…Molina would never be included. Some changes are coming to Toronto, but not something splashy some come to expect based on the previous regime.
jdgoat
That Donaldson trade makes no sense for either team
giombrampton78
If the jays trade Donaldson to St. Louis, better be sending the jays Alex Reyes, Harrison bader and delvin Perez
ilikebaseball 2
Molina will retire a Cardinal. Drink some reality juice.
Wainofan
No way cards trade Molina, carp and wacha but what about flaherty, kelly, Wong, or gyorko kelly flaherty for Donaldson?
kbarr888
Cards aren’t trading Kelly for 1 yr of Donaldson. Flaherty maybe.
Diaz is a player that has value, but no place to play in St Louis now that DeJong has emerged. Cards looking for pitching too.
Maybe a package of Flaherty, Diaz, Gyorko, Grichuk and another young pitcher (not Alcantara Gomer, or Weaver) bring back Donaldson and Stroman? I know that sounds kind of light for those two, but Donaldson isn’t as valuable as the Jays Fans think he is (because of the impending FA). Stroman IS (under team control through 2020)
SuperSinker
That’s a pretty awful return for the Jays. I’d rather they look for a high impact prospect with than a volume of players.
stormie
One year left or not, players like Donaldson bring back huge returns. Even at the deadline he would command a top 100 prospect, especially as he’ll net a draft pick after the year if his team doesn’t extend/re-sign him. I don’t think Gyorko and Grichuk/Diaz (which I’m assuming is the part of your offer that would cover Donaldson) is much of a deal.
filthyrich
When Donaldson returned to full health, he flashed his MVP caliber talent to close out the season. Offers would escalate if he was on the market officially.
Stroman is about to get expensive but he would get a return involving one of the names that the Cards refuse to consider if this trade was gonna happen. Add that to Donaldson and the Cards are out of consideration.
If the Jays traded Donaldson now, it sounds like they’d want 2 impact players in return. He could fetch 3 at the deadline if stays healthy and productive I bet. Or just 1 if he has a similar first half to this year. I’d gamble and wait it out.
Right now, the Jays could take on salary if they’re trading Donaldson and sweeten their return. And/or add talent to the offer. Gotta get Weaver/Reyes/Kelly involved in talks if it’s going to be worthwhile. Not all 3 but at least 1. Including Fowler and Pillar to the package makes sense to me for payroll but mostly there’s a lot of potential to juggle some parts and find a fit if these teams wanted to make it happen. Can’t see Flaherty, Gyorko, Grichuk or Diaz being anything more than throw-ins. All interesting parts though.
plem24
Wow- lucky to get 2 of that list
plem24
Wow- lucky to get 2 from that list
ReverieDays
Go back to playing The Show, son.
mlb1225
The Cards wouldn’t give up Molina for ALL the players on The Blue Jays 25-man roster.
adshadbolt
I like ur dee Gordon idea and the new ownership probably wants his contract off the books so the jays wouldn’t have to give up much.
Gret1wg
It’s MLB not some fantasy game
John Murray
Cozart is a possibility, but not McCutcheon. He’s almost certain to have his option picked up by Pittsburgh and you won’t get him in a trade unless you’re willing to give up two prime prospects, which the Jays won’t do. Martin is untradeable with his contract, and I can’t see the Jays releasing him so anyone else (the Yankees come to immediate mind) could get him for the league minimum. And with Molina coming off a career year, and still being one of the best catchers in baseball as well as a franchise icon – it would take more than one year of the Bringer of Rain to get Molina alone. Sorry, but this is a big ol pipe dream.
filthyrich
Molina will have Matheny’s job eventually is how it seems to me.
Trade Donaldson for a catcher would be a smart thought. That would be the key piece to get me interested in any offers.
Young catcher though.
And young pitching. And young speed. That’s how to survive the turf.
Get rid of the vets if you can, but have young backups ready if you can’t.
Gordon is a good idea but I’d still prefer to let Travis try to be healthy. Gurriel makes too much money to not be the Travis/Tulo backup plan this time around. Another year in minors would be ridiculous. Trying to get more MI depth would be smart. But not veterans. Forsythe cost the Dodgers too much last year. MI are not going to be cheap. FA options aren’t overly appealing either.
Stocking up on a veteran starter is another good thought. Trading for AAA arms would be more appealing to me. Or guys that should be starting regularly. Clevinger, Montgomery types. Bullpen: flip a coin, don’t waste money there. Just keep adding young arms to the system and the bullpen will happen.
ilikebaseball 2
I mean come on, Tulo has always been a paper cup. Should of expected that when you traded for him.
Doc Halladay
To be fair, Atkins and Shapiro inherited Tulo. Anthopoulos is the one who traded for him in 2015.
filthyrich
To be fair to Tulo, the Jays don’t make the playoffs at all if Reyes was still the SS during that period. Worth it if he sucks for the rest of his time with the Jays.
The trade for Price sucks too but it was also necessary. Even having Dickey was necessary despite the result of that trade. No playoffs without the Anthopoulos trades.
No starting pitching depth in the minors still with the Anthopoulos trades. Can’t win everytime. Decent 5man staff to be made from starters that AA traded away to break the playoff drought.
stormie
By the time the Jays made the playoffs, Syndergaard was already better than Dickey, so that trade really can’t even be defended from that angle. Obviously hindsight is 20/20 and AA thought he could make the playoffs before 2015, before Syndergaard was ready, but nonetheless, that trade is what it is: a dreadful mistake.
filthyrich
Fair disclaimer.
Tried to limit my rambling.
Dickey was still a key piece to the first playoff run. His second half was excellent and played nearly as big a part as Price did from my point of view. I also can’t see Syndergaard being as good in the AL and he may not have blossomed into a helpful piece for making a playoff push. Guy would probably dominate in Coors though. Just needs some health. Hoping he can make the Jays regret as a baseball fan. Fun to watch him pitch.
The fact that d’Arnaud is starting to look pretty good can’t be overlooked either. And all in all dreadful would be the perfect word to sum up that trade. Not enough makeup in the world to make that pig look pretty….
lesterdnightfly
Calling Jimmertee ! We miss your insights here. Seriously.
jimmertee
Hey :Lesterdnightfly, I’ll take that as a compliment. I guess we will have see what Atkins means by adding “impact” players. Certainly they tried for impact players last year and didn’t do very well. They key will be if they are going to add two arms, a #1 starter and a #3 starter. Plus they need at least 2 reliable setup guys, but Biagini and some maturing minor leaguers might be able to get that done. They need another catcher who can do 30% of the workload.
As I have said, Sanchez finger issue is not resolved yet, so who knows what will happen there. Stroman will be Stroman next year. Estrada will regress heavily and Happ will regress too, but not as much as Estrada. Will Andersen be back? Will he be healthy? Who knows, hence needing two starters, one of them elite.
Hernandez looks like a keeper, I love his bat. We’ll see how he does once the league starts adjusting to him. The Jays need a lead off guy, hope Hernandez can fill the shoes. As soon as Travis is healthy, trade him to a grass field, he’ll be chronically hurt on turf. I think releasing Barney, Refsynder, Maile, Montero, Lopez, Campos, and Cole are good moves and Goins can be the utility guy or SS/2nd pending what Urena does in spring training. Koehler can be a great depth guy or bullpen if they can resign him for less than his 5m option.
Since I don’t think the Jays’ Mgmt will do what is really necessary this year to have a winning starting rotation, it is time to go into full rebuild mode. Let’s see what Donaldson will bring in trade. Move Tulo to 3rd. I might float Smoak in trade as well. Carrera, Pearce, and Saunders, are just pieces that fill out a roster.
There is lots of work to do and lots of spots to fill. Since at the moment I am leaning strongly to full rebuild mode unless the Jays’ Mgmt surprises me with acquisitions, let’s evalute the roster again after the winter meetings and during spring training once I have had a chance to scout the changes that have been made.
WhiteSox4ever
Wow
Aiden Elash
Wow… just wow so much wrong. Dude if Sanchez is healthy (ik if but that’s why they need another starter) they easily have a top 5 rotation in the mlb, Happ and Estrada arnt going to regress heavily, why would that happen? How do u know u don’t. Hernandez is not a keeper, he might not even make the team. Alomst all those moves are stupid for different reason and the reason u gave are just ur opinion and almost certainly arnt true.
jimmertee
While I applaud the Jays for trying, actually signing Estrada is a lottery ticket situation. Why? Last year I projected Estrada would take a huge step back from his 2016 performance because of age and/or his back. I and all of us didn’t know at the time that Estrada has a herniated disk in his back. The Jays admitted that fact after they signed him to the latest deal.
Some of the doctors probably told them it is okay. I have a source close to the situation that wasn’t in agreement with them and says his back will likely not be okay in 2018. As of now, in many of his starts he cannot get his top half over the bottom half of his delivery and thus is prone to losing his pinpoint control. If my source is correct, [and I also don’t see a whole lot of consistency coming in 2018] from Estrada, then the Jays need a bonifide #3 to replace him. Sorry for the bad news, but I gotta go with what I am hearing and what I see in his delivery, if Estrada can get 18 starts and win 6 games under 5 ERA, the Jays will be fortunate. And at the end of the year it is the wins that matter.
deok40
wow… what insight. That is about as big a pile of garbage as I have
ever read.
filthyrich
You gotta admit that Estrada held it together better than expected. He is gritty. His playoff performance leaves a soft spot for me. Even as a #5 he’ll work. Happ regressing would still be a fine #4. Sanchez has hope if Hill survived. He’s a fine #1. Stroman also gritty. WBC was next level. He’s a fine #1 if Sanchez is down. Need a #2/3 type. And a trade like the Montgomery trade the Cubs made would be an ideal move to beef up the depth. Biagini could be a good hybrid type. His performance this year is tough to judge because he was bouncing around a lot. Other guys did it very well though. So an upgrade there would be key.
Anderson is an interesting piece. Could be a #3. Could be a flop. Keep him around for depth.
Osuna was worrisome this year. Travis gets more worrisome every year. Tulo and Martin too. Pillar seems expendable to me. Recipe for blowing it up is there, but I’d wait until June to see if they might surprise first. Tigers style rather than Whitesox style.
Teoscar was a great add. Pannone might be the piece next year. He’s the closest arm from what my amateur eyes can see.
Cutting the borderline guys and taking a shot elsewhere would be alright. Those moves are always gambles. Give it a shot, why not.
Good take in general jimmertee. Always nice to debate Jays with you.
lesterdnightfly
jimmertee: It was a compliment. You take a lot of heat for various reasons, but your passion is unquestionable.
And you don’t make those “take two of our AAAA guys and give us your superstar” trade proposals that clog the board so much.
jimmertee
Thanks for the positives. Trade proposals based on what you said never happen. Trade proposals based on leaked conversations though are a different story. For example, Atkins admitted he declined 15 offers at the trade deadline which could mean anything. But, if we know[and I do] that at least 2 of those offers were for Bautista and one of those offers included a really good prospect from another club, it makes me wonder why Atkins woudn’t pull the trigger on that one.
Keep in mind Jays fans that Mark Shapiro has set a “lets be longterm competative” goal that Atkins has to follow which means not a whole lot of trading going on involving Jays prospects for players who can help now. That also means filling up the minor league system with prospects which is a good thing, but it also usually means years and years of mediocrity before greatness can be achieved.
I am not too patient and that is why I am tough on Atkins for his moves and his “no moves”. I liked Anthopoulos’s style even though the Jays are sacked with big contracts at the moment, but at least the Jays got to the playoffs and gave us great winning baseball for a few years.
filthyrich
Well said.
I think (i..e. try to tell myself) that being patient will result in more than a playoff spot. Winning World Series is all that matters next time.
xabial
Whether or not you agree with jimmertee, it is obvious to me, that he deeply cares for his Toronto Blue Jays.
Coast1
Many of the Blue Jay players are 30 something and on the downside of their careers. Their one really good hitter is a free agent at the end of the year. They two good young starters but one of them spent most of the year hurt.
The players currently on the roster figure to get around $138 million (not including Bautista) according to Baseball Reference and the team had opening day payrolls of $141 and $144 million the last two years.
They have a couple of great prospects but neither figures to be in the big leagues in 2018. There isn’t a lot on the farm besides those two to trade. They won 76 games and I don’t see how they win more in 2018.
The Blue Jays aren’t going to win 2018. They need to rebuild to get back into contention. Clearly they won’t.
jimmertee
Coast1, you nailed it correctly..
Coast1
The Phillies are a cautionary tale. Sometimes when you give out big contracts to good players they don’t pan out. Teams do hit rough patches where their prospects don’t pan out or, like the Blue Jays, they traded a lot of good ones. Those things happen.
Where the Phillies were monumentally stupid was deciding that if they brought in another couple of veterans they wouldn’t have to rebuild. After back-to-back bad years in 2012 an 2013 they still went for it in 2014 and 2015 and got the expected poor results.
The Tigers, on the other hand, saw the writing on the wall and didn’t just trade impending free agents this season. They traded as many vets as they could. The Blue Jays can get something for Donaldson and Happ now. If they wait a year they get nothing other than the compensation pick for Donaldson.
I will say that when the Phillies finally realized they needed to rebuild they were smart in trading Cole Hamels. They could’ve held on to him thinking he might be still good when they contended again. That would’ve been risky. The Tigers and White Sox both realize that too.
filthyrich
Great take.
Teams getting better when they trade their vets more than ever. Twins back in the race after they went younger. Yankees contenders again after they went younger. Astros, Cubs, etc. Phillies came on stronger as the season progressed. They’re next. Maybe Atlanta first. Or Chisox Tigers leap in front. Padres one day?! Maybe not yet. A’s could surprise soon. Lots of teams get it, but some teams still a step behind. Teams that can spend have no excuse. Get aggressive with it.
Ejemp2006
No! Take one more shot! Get JD Martinez, Justin Upton, Jake Arrieta, and a super utility guy! Spend, spend, spend! Trade the farm for Stanton and Gordon! Hire Bonds to be a hitting instructor. Hire Ricky Henderson to teach base running. Hire the University of Toronto’s physio-therapy staff to keep em all healthy. Pay Rhonda Patrick consulting fees for nutrition guidance! Pack the stadium, sell discounted beer, bus in convicts to lead rough house cheers that drown out visiting players’ ability to concentrate. Arrange for visiting teams to stay at uncomfortable hotel beds. Stack the deck and bring the World Series back across the border where it belongs.
filthyrich
I’m reading this as sarcastic and it is hilarious. Well done.
I’d trade for different players if I was trading the farm, but I like a lot of this. Like it a lot.
Devon White is coaching Jays in the minors last I recall, so maybe we don’t need Rickey. And I’d push for the Alomar Bros as instructors rather than Bonds.
Aoe3
I think Carlos González may be a fit for the Bluejays, if he isnt too expensive.
filthyrich
Sounds like Bautista dejavu. With a dash of Tulo.
I like Cargo. Wouldn’t hate it, but has a bad feeling about it.
go_jays_go
The lack of speed is mostly Shapkins fault. It was their decision to go with KM as a DH and JB as their RF.
IIRC just based off fangraphs that’s -15 runs between those two players.
filthyrich
So sad because so true.
Bautista was like a panic because the song was ending and there was no good chairs left. He did better than it looks but he still did poorly.
Morales did worse than it looks and still did poorly. His signing came with Gurriel, who will be on the team next year if they don’t want to waste any more of the investment. Might pay off for Morales still.
brownbomber
Brett Cecil for Donaldson
filthyrich
Hahah. Pick up Brett Lawrie to include in the deal and it’s a maybe.
Caseys Partner
Cesar Hernandez is a perfect fit for the Blue Jays. So what kind of prospects are the Jays willing to deal?
The Phillies could add a bullpen asset from their MLB roster to sweeten the deal
filthyrich
An ok fit. How perfect?
How would a Dalton Pompey sound? Jays want to keep the prospects unless it’s elite talent coming back. Not sure this trade talk would go anywhere.