12:05pm: General manager Mike Rizzo tells reporters that the decision had nothing to do with contractual negotiations (Twitter links via Jorge Castillo of the Washington Post). In fact, there were never any actual negotiations, and no contract was offered to Baker. “Winning a lot of regular season games and winning divisions is not enough,” said Rizzo.
11:11am: The Nationals announced on Friday that Dusty Baker will not return as the team’s manager for the 2018 season. Baker’s contract only ran through the 2017 season, but the two sides had reportedly been discussing the possibility of a reunion prior to today’s announcement. The Nats offered the following statement in their release:
“The Lerner family, on behalf of the entire organization, would like to thank Baker for his two years in the dugout. He led the team to the first back-to-back division titles in our history and represented our club with class on and off the field. We wish him the best going forward.
The contracts for the Major League coaching staff have also expired. The Nationals’ search for a new manager will begin immediately, and we will work with that person to build his coaching staff.”
Baker, 68, won 95 games in his debut season with the Nationals last year and followed that up with a 97-win campaign in 2017 despite myriad injuries to key players (e.g. Adam Eaton, Trea Turner, Bryce Harper) and an early-season bullpen mess. Rumblings about his lack of a contract for the 2018 season began to surface this summer, but the general consensus while the Nationals were winning during the regular season was that the two sides would eventually work out an agreement to extend their relationship.
That calculus may have changed with yet another Division Series exit for the Nationals, who despite winning the division four times in the past six years, have never advanced to the National League Championship Series. Baker’s Nats fought the Cubs tooth and nail, hanging on until the final out of what proved to be a 9-8 loss in Game 5. Certainly, it’s easy to second-guess any number of managerial decisions with the benefit of hindsight following a postseason exit, though the placement of Jayson Werth in the second spot of the batting order over NL MVP candidate Anthony Rendon (who hit sixth) was panned throughout the Division Series. The communication mishap surrounding Stephen Strasburg’s Game 4 start also appeared to reflect poorly.
That said, it’s difficult to place the blame for another early exit on Baker’s shoulders — particularly after a 97-win season. Baker’s players often voiced admiration and praise as his contract situation lingered in an unresolved state, but the Nats will now be looking for their fourth permanent manager since the 2011 season. Since the franchise moved from Montreal to Washington, D.C. in 2005, the Nationals have had six permanent managers (plus interim skipper John McLaren) in 13 years. No manager has lasted more than three seasons at the team’s helm.
For Baker, the lack of a contract extension is undoubtedly disheartening. He’s voiced on multiple occasions in recent months that he still has a desire to manage and will depart a team that remains stacked with talent and looks very much like a the NL East favorite once again in 2018. There are, of course, other managerial vacancies which Baker can pursue should he choose. While the Tigers formally named Ron Gardenhire their new manager on Friday, the Mets, Phillies and Red Sox are all still without skippers for the 2018 season.
All of those teams are quite a ways into their managerial searches, though, with the Red Sox reported to be particularly close to the end. Baker could also take a year off and once again pursue managerial opportunities that arise following the 2018 campaign, though it’d hardly be a surprise to see his name connected to any of those searches.
Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
TheChanceyColborn
And the revolving door continues…
xabial
Ladies and gentleman your new Mets manager.
Either this time, or next.
Say Hey Now Kid
I hope so but I doubt it. Say what you want about his post season record, he brings out the best in his players which is exactly what my underachieving Mets need
Caseys Partner
The Mets did overachieve this year.
The Mets need a lot of talent.
mikeyank55
There’s no post season worries here with the Mets; they won’t be in them anyway. Dusty won’t manage a complete rebuild. Bobby Valentine would be a good match. He’s been unemployed for years and will work for very little as long as he can satisfy his craving for media attention. It’s a perfect match!
dwhitt3
Overachieve? Lol
Michael 35
Considering Kevin Long and Manny Acta are the “frontrunners” for the position… I’d take Dusty.
padam
Baker doesn’t match the profile of what the Mets would be looking for. He’s another manager who doesn’t know how to manage pitchers, and prefers veterans over young players.
WalkersDayOff
And that is probably it for Dusty.
asuchrisc
Best of luck Dusty
danegalloway
But who else will bat Anthony Rendon 6th???
lesterdnightfly
Per the Washington Post in several articles, Rendon’s numbers batting sixth were much better than his stats at second. He wasn’t comfortable nor productive, hitting that high in the order.
You can’t blame the entire team’s inability to hit (except for Taylor) on where Rendon was swinging the bat.
davidcoonce74
He started 9 games batting second in 2017. That’s not remotely enough of a sample size to matter.
bradthebluefish
Ditto
oldleftylong
Ausmus
Rob L. 2
Lol. He manages a bullpen worse than Baker.
CompanyAssassin
Oh wow
DKI94
This is pretty surprising, I love seeing dusty in baseball, hopefully he finds a job somewhere else.
water boy
Would make a great bench coach
Brixton
Hes a great voice, an awesome guy, and someone players love, the issue is he just isn’t a great manager. Hes always had issues with his pitching staffs and now his lineup mismanagement was caught under the microscope
dimitriinla
He also proved himself awful with the bullpen.
Brixton
his bullpen was good in the second half
Priggs89
So has Joe Maddon
HubcapDiamondStarHalo
I kind of have him in the same category as Bobby Cox – a fantastic manager in the regular season, not so good in a short series. Over the course of 162 games, the creme tends to rise to the top; I never felt either manager adjusted well to the unique pressures and situations of a playoff “loser go home” series.
ruthlesslyabsurd
His team was 7th in homers and 5th in OBP, but 3rd in runs. Not sure why his lineup construction was so terrible
majorflaw
Because he didn’t maximize the assets he had. The Nats Rank where they are because of the talent they have, not because of the way it’s deployed.
Just as a well worn example, putting the better of two hitters in the 6 slot while a lesser hitter bats second is a classic lineup mistake that some “old school” managers make. Bill James wrote about it thirty years ago but Dusty must have missed that year’s BJBBA. And I’m not just referring to Werth/Rendon in the playoffs. Dusty was batting Kendrick, Raburn , Goodwin or Difo 2 with Rendon 6th for the balance of the season once Eaton was injured.
How many wins did it cost them this year? Well, didn’t really matter this year as the Nats won their division by 20 games. But details like this tend to get magnified during the playoffs. After five games the Nats lost by one run. Could better lineup construction have made up that slight deficit? Who knows, but as a Nats fan I’d prefer to see them go out maximizing what they’ve got rather than voluntarily playing at less than their best.
fox471 Dave
Don’t even know what you are saying. He wins 97 and 95 games in two years, Harper is injured and he gets fired because Rendon bats sixth?
Has anyone taken a look at Rizzo? Does he have pictures of the Lerner family in compromising situations?
BlueSkyLA
I wonder why anyone thinks lineups and pitching matchups are still manager’s decisions. Are any MLB teams not driving these choices with data? The bench coach is the conduit for this data from the analytics people in the front office.
In general too much is attention is focused on a manager’s in-game work. Fans don’t see it so I guess so some don’t believe it, but probably 70% of his job is off the field and out of sight of the fans. But definitely not out of sight of ownership, the FO, or the players.
Either way if a team underperforms, the manager takes the hit. Still waiting for a FO or owner to take the blame and fire themselves. It’s gonna be a long wait.
majorflaw
“Don’t even know what you’re saying.”
OK, I’ll try again. I wasn’t thrilled when the Nats chose Dusty as their manager. For all the usual reasons. But when they did I was determined to give him a chance. What I found was pretty much what I expected. The players both like and respect him. They play hard and appear to be one happy, motivated family. Dusty got out of the way and let them play and their talent carried them to two division titles.
And Dusty continued making the same tactical mistakes he had in the past. Lineup construction, leaving pitchers in too long, making decisions for sentimental rather than logical reasons. Dusty’s weaknesses obviously didn’t cost the Nats much during the regular season but he has shown himself to be particularly clueless during postseasons.
“Harper is injured and he gets fired because Rendon bats sixth?”
No, he got fired because the Nats were bounced in the first round again. It was an ownership decision. Ted Lerner is 93 and, most likely, in a ‘win now’ frame of mind. Rendon hitting sixth is just an example of the illogical way Dusty made decisions.
“Has anyone taken a look at Rizzo? Does he have pictures of the Lerner family in compromising situations?”
When Rizzo took over, the Nats were the doormat of the NL. They weren’t given the high draft picks used to acquire Strasburg, Harper, etc because other teams liked them and wanted to help them. They got those picks the old fashioned way, by regularly finishing among the worst teams in baseball. Remember that?
The Nats now compete for a division title and then a championship darn near every year. If they continue to make the playoffs they will eventually win a title. And the franchise itself has never been healthier. Rizzo has much to do with that. Which ownership appears to recognize.
“He wins 97 and 95 games in two years, . . . “
A trivia question I don’t have the answer to: Has any manager with that much success and no “personality” issues been fired before. Can’t think of one offhand. (Possible example, Buck Showalter with the Yankees.). But, much as I wasn’t happy with Dusty’s selection, it’s difficult to understand why he wasn’t extended. It appears that the results he got were within the upper range of what could be expected when he was hired. IOW, if they liked him when they hired him they should love him now.
BlueSkyLA
Sometimes it has nothing to do with anything but new ownership cleaning house and wanting the organization to reflect whatever philosophy they’ve got for running it. Other times the manager is simply the most convenient scapegoat for organizational failures. FWIW, Baker wasn’t fired, exactly. Might as well call him a free agent who wasn’t extended by his current team. Little doubt another team will sign him. His level of experience is not found easily.
majorflaw
“Little doubt another team will sign him.”
Oh, there’s quite a lot of doubt that Dusty will manage again. Nobody had considered him for a job for years before the Nats used him as a a cheap fallback position when Bud Black was offended by their offer. While his two years in DC can only help his reputation it is entirely possible that we’ve seen the last of Johnny Lee Baker in a major league uniform.
“Other times the manager is simply the most convenient scapegoat for organizational failures.”
Yes, but I don’t think that’s the issue with Baker and the Nats. When they were celebrating clinching the division on 2014 Rizzo was asked if he was surprised that Matt W had such success in his first year. He replied that, no, with the team they had assembled he was not surprised that they won their division. And that’s the way they think of the last two years as well. In their minds, twice they gave Dusty a championship caliber roster and twice he failed to seal the deal. You could argue that this is unfair, that Dusty’s weaknesses were well known before the Nats hired him. You could also argue that, if the Nats wanted a manager who could actually manage a game they should have hired a Tony La Russa type instead of Dusty.
The Nats kinda shocked me here. Wasn’t in favor of Dusty’s hire and now can’t understand not bringing him back after he did the bulk of what they need quite well. They’d have been fine if Dusty had a sabermetrically inclined bench coach who fed him the right answers.
BlueSkyLA
My earlier point was that the use of data for in-game management is up to the FO, not the manager. Once again, the in-game management aspect of the game is being massively over-analyzed and exaggerated in importance. It may be the only part of the manager’s duties that the fans can see but in reality it is a fragment of his assigned duties, and given the importance of data in the game today, probably the smallest part.
majorflaw
“ . . . the in-game management aspect of the game is being massively over-analyzed and exaggerated in importance.”
Perhaps because it’s one area where the manager is on his own. FO can tell the manager who to play, where to play them and where to bat them. But the FO can’t make every decision in advance. Some choices will only arise over the course of a game.
“ . . . Given the importance of data in the game today, probably the smallest part.”
Not sure I understand what you’re saying here?
BlueSkyLA
A manager’s in-game decision making is more and more a direct product of the analytics. When he is faced with an in-game decision, either the manager or the bench coach or both are going to know which move is the most statistically sound, at least according to the way it’s been calculated by his analytics people. If a manager is making those decisions any other way he’s either not getting this direction from the FO or he’s defying it. The gut instinct part of the game hardly exists anymore, at least in terms of management.
The other part of what I am saying is that a manager’s role in handling his personal in the many, many hours during the season when they are not on the field is a huge part of his job, and the part that we rarely if ever see. He has to understand and manage the personalities of the 25 players on his roster, and what works to get the best performance out of each and every one them. To me this seems like it has to be the hardest part of the job.
majorflaw
Out of order, I realize but….
“The other part of what I am saying . . . it has to be the hardest part of the job.”
Yes, this part of the job is similar to a tour director or group leader. You want to keep everyone happy and pulling in the same direction. This is the stuff Dusty is great at. If the Nats had let Maddux handle the pitching decisions and had given Dusty a bench coach who fed him the “right” answers he’d have been fine.
“When he is faced with an in-game decision, either the manager or the bench coach or both are going to know which move is the most statistically sound . . . “
In theory—yes. But in practice, in-game decisions are more like three dimensional chess.
There should be certain obvious guidelines in place, like you don’t let Ollie Perez pitch to a RH batter if the game is still winnable. Which batter/pitcher matchups to try to create and which to avoid. How many pitches/innings a pitcher should be allowed to throw. These and similar decisions can be “programmed” into a manager, although Pedro Martinez would tell you that even a clear directive from upstairs can be ignored by the wrong manager in the heat of battle.
But many decisions are loaded with context. Your starter has thrown 90 pitches through six innings, do you take him out or leave him in? That will likely depend on several variables. How does he look/feel, what’s the score, is his turn at bat coming up, how rested is your bullpen, how does he match up vs. the next opponent batter, how does your BP match up vs. next batters. And I’m sure there are several I’ve missed. These variables change with every batter, if not every pitch.
As you get deeper into examining context it becomes increasingly difficult, if not impossible, for anything other than a computer to keep up. It’s not fair to expect any manager to always know the exact right move. But you do want and expect that your manager will be aware of the obvious things, that he will make in-game decisions not controlled by analytics but guided by analytics. Don’t care about the manager’s instincts, you bat Rendon second because it is objectively the better move.
“The gut instinct part of the game hardly exists anymore, at least in terms of management.”
Would you want it otherwise? When sufficient data tells you that a particular pitcher’s performance declines dramatically after he throws 90 pitches why would you want a manager who goes with his gut and leaves him in past that point? There are always gonna be decisions made on a hunch or by feeling. But teams expect their manager to avoid making obviously bad moves, which does require knowing which moves are obviously bad. This is the kind of thing Dusty wasn’t so great at. Hence the vacancy.
Houston We Have A Solution
Joe Ross would of liked this to happen sooner.
fs54
Stop making up stuff. Ross’s injury has nothing to do with Dusty. His whole career he has dealt with various injuries.
outinleftfield
What injury did he suffer from before Dusty?
saavedra
that’s just an assumption.
HarveyD82
nats window is slowly closing. As long as the rest of the NL East rebuilds or plays below expectations, the Nats win the division again in ’18
Brixton
barring huge offseasons, no one is even close
hiflew
If everyone can get healthy, the Mets are very close. Of course, health is not guaranteed.
smirkman
If you’re including David Wright, the Mets may have comparable talent. Otherwise nope.
Coast1
Nats could have a long window. Rendon, Turner, Taylor, Eaton, and Strasburg are all under 30. Murphy, Zimmerman, and Scherzer are 32 but showing no signs of decline. They may lose Bryce Harper in a year but that’s not a death sentence. The Cardinals made the playoffs in the 4 years after Pujols left, while the Yankees haven’t won less than 84 games since Cano left. The Nationals have held onto Victor Robles as insurance if Harper leaves.
jade 2
The problems the Nats face after ’18 is the loss of Gio, Harper, Murphy, Madson while losing nothing in payroll. They’ll be right on the luxury tax with some holes to fill, due to massive bumps in pay to Scherzer & Strasberg.
The then 35 yr old Scherzer will earn $37.4m in ’19 – $36m in ’20 & $34.5 in ’21.
If Scherzer & Strassberg are still TOR, no problem, but if Scherzer declines for ages 35-37? or Strasberg is hurt?
MakeATLGreatAgain
They might win the division in 2018, but they’ll have their 5th NLDS elimination.
lesterdnightfly
Wow. Nats’ GM Mike Rizzo had repeatedly stated that he expected a deal would be done, no matter what happened in the postseason. So something changed. I assume this was an owners’ decision.
I wonder what this says about Rizzo’s status and future with the Nats…..
jules
Look for the Nats to be out of contention early next season…..
ray_derek
Or not be mismanaged in the postseason again. No one is even close to them in the east. They’ll win the division even if they have a horrible year.
hiflew
Yeah it was far better when they were mismanaged BEFORE the postseason like with Matt Williams.
zacadad17
Saw this coming the minute he took Scherzer out in game 3 against the Cubs. Gave up 1 hit and was not happy about coming out – not that he ever is. Cost them the series as they should have been up 2-1 instead of down 2-1.
lesterdnightfly
Scherzer was gassed. It was the right move. The Nats just didn’t hit, in that game and 4 of the 5 games.
fred-3
And he also went to Scherzer in G5 w/ a lead and Scherzer blew it
zacadad
Also the wrong move. You bring him in late in the game to pump up the crowd and fire up the team.
CubsFanForLife
Thank god. What a horrible manager who doesn’t understand where to slot his guys in the batting order.
truthlemonade
“would like to thank Baker for his two years in the dugout”
Is that a direct quotation? Isn’t it weird that he is referred to as “Baker”? I would think given the nature of the press release he would be called “Mr. Baker,” or “Dusty Baker.” Even “Dusty” sounds better than just “Baker.”
Steve Adams
It is a direct quote. I found it a bit odd as well.
mike156
That release looks like it was written by an intern. And no one appeared to proof it either.
srechter
Glad I’m not the only one; it stuck out like a sore thumb to me.
SundownDevil
Very concerning about the underlying tone of this press release. There’s more here than meets the eye.
Djones246890
Calling someone by their last name, when the situation is of serious, “official,” and business-like nature, is an indirect dig.
Something bad definitely happened behind the scenes.
BlueSkyLA
Not necessarily. This calling everybody by their first name thing is definitely generational. You can hear it from the sportscasters. The older ones (the few who are left) refer to the players by their last names. The younger generation always uses the first name or the first and last name together. I’ve been hearing that change go down for years now.
Djones246890
Honestly, I’ve never noticed what you mentioned. Not saying it isn’t true, but in the current time period we’re in, it hints at it definitely being an underhanded dig. Whether they meant it that way or not? We will never know.
BlueSkyLA
Try listening to an older game broadcast, you’ll hear it. “Baker lines out to center field” would today be “Dustybaker lines out to center field” (the first and last names jammed together as if they are one name), or just the first name used. We see it a lot here too, with players being referred to by their first names only. Plenty of times in this discussion alone. Makes me wonder how long it will be before first names are sewn onto the back of player jerseys instead of last names. It’s a definite trend.
saavedra
This is somewhat surprising and somewhat of a risk. I can respect the decision by the Nats management, but Dusty is a decent manager, even with the ghosts that haunt him (Mark Prior, cough). Maybe they want someone who can deliver in the clutch? But with the window closing, perhaps it would have been a good idea to stick with Dusty for one more year.
gofish 2
Hittin’ the ol’ Dusty trail.
ray_derek
It’s funny how all this bad luck follows Dusty. Maybe it’s not bad luck and it’s horrible game making decisions. Every place he’s been successful he’s had a loaded roster. Anyone could have managed the Nats, Cubs or Giants to a playoff berth. But you know, he’s such a nice guy, players love playing for him.
That’s great, good luck with that
fred-3
Reds too
hiflew
Anyone couldn’t have. Matt Williams had virtually the same roster and had an under .500 team. Bryan Price took over Dusty’s Reds and turned them into an under .500 team with the same players in 2014. Dusty is VERY underrated as a manager just because of the small sample that is the postseason. He has managed 4 teams and gotten all 4 teams to the postseason, 3 of them multiple times. A total of 9 playoffs in 22 seasons is HOF-worthy.
Coast1
The Nats were 96-66 and 83-79 when Williams was the manager.
outinleftfield
Same except:
C – Ramos vs Wieters
2B – Espinosa vs Murphy
SS – Desmond vs Turner
CL/SU – Storen and Treinen vs Doolittle and Albers
Dusty has been given super teams everywhere he has managed, teams that with or without him should reasonably be expected to win their division regardless of who was in that division, and has managed an early exit in the playoffs. 9 playoff teams, a .418 win %, and 0 rings. Has any other manager been so bad in the playoffs? I can’t think of one. Can you?
Djones246890
He’s the guy who pretty much destroyed arguably the two best pitchers (at that time) in baseball’s careers.
160 pitches per game? Ah, no big deal. Throw 180, Woodie. Who’s counting? Certainly not “In Dusty we trusty.”
Boston2AZ
“Baker could also take a year off and once again pursue managerial opportunities that arise following the 2018 campaign” – when he’ll be 110 years old.
iceman35pilot
Thank God. I’m sure shortly we’ll se a 30for30 episode in which he espouses about how the game screwed him.
Of course, it will completely ignore the fact the guy is 0-10 in his teams last 10 attempts to clinch a playoff series. Statistically, that’s more than bad luck, it indicates a lack of talent to win a game when the talent between the teams is equal.
His biggest issue is that he has a plan, the plan doesn’t go exactly as he laid it out, and he has no clue what to do. When Schezer got shelled in game 5, the look of utter bewilderment and confusion was the exact same loom I saw in game 6 of the ’03 NLCS.
lesterdnightfly
” I’m sure shortly we’ll se a 30for30 episode in which he espouses about how the game screwed him.”
That’s a perfect example of total speculation and character-slurring on your part, which impairs anything else you said.
iceman35pilot
No it’s not. Go back and read the Chicago media stories after he was fired. It was implied, by him, that he was run out of Chicago because of his personality, not his performance.
Then go read the Cincinnati media reports when he was hired, where again, he implies that his actual record had nothing to do with him getting fired, and included a former Chicago player suggesting race had something to do with it. After that, you can read the story on how he got fired in Cincy, and how he doesn’t understand why.
Sid Bream
@iceman35pilot Do you have any clue about baseball? If you assert that you do tell me why Washington lost game 5.
iceman35pilot
Quick guess is that the Cubs scored more runs?
The actual answer is that after Scheazer got shelled, and Bakers plan was shot to hell, he didn’t have another one. Also, 8th inning, 1st and 2nd you send up Lind to slug them in, knowing the Cubs bullpen has struggled. Why, being down, would you not have someone else bunt them over and get Taylor up, whom I’ll assume they’ll walk. That switches the pressure the Cubs and their faltering bullpen.
Everyone also sites his record, but completely forgets the human component. Sure players like playing for him. He lets them do whatever they want, for good or bad, and then goes after whoever questions his players that he has no control over.
Now tell me, why did he lose the previous 9 series clinching games?
Djones246890
I completely agree with you, Iceman. In order to be a successful (championship-winning) baseball manager, you have to think like a chess player.
Baker doesn’t. He has one plan, doesn’t think ahead, and if it fails, he has no clue what to do. He basically just freezes up, and that’s it.
He’s terrible at managing the psychological/emotional portion of the game.
Perfect example….in 2003, after the Bartman incident, he should’ve gone out there and calmed the situation down. What does he do?
He becomes a spectator (just like the fans), chomps a little harder on his toothpick, and watches the 25 car pile up, and inevitable blow up and large scale fire.
Bottom line? If you want to win a championship, you don’t hire his guy.
fighterflea
I used to think Dusty was only as good as the team put before him but the Nats thrived despite a staggering number of injuries to key players and never missed a beat. With the early Eaton injury, we never saw what an intact Nationals’ lineup would look like and how it would perform.
SupremeZeus
Dusty has been retired for some time, this just makes it official.
mrkinsm
Earlier this month, Dusty Baker became the 12th manager in MLB history to win 90 or more games in 10 or more seasons.
He joined: Joe McCarthy (15x), Bobby Cox (15x), John McGraw (14x), Connie Mack (13x), Tony LaRussa (12x), Joe Torre (12x), Casey Stengel (11x), Earl Weaver (11x), Sparky Anderson (10x), Walter Aston (10x), and Al Lopez (10x). All eleven of which have been inducted into the MLB Hall of Fame.
Baker joins Lopez as the only ones who haven’t won a world series.
Terry Francona remains one 90 win season away from joining this group and Joe Maddon remains two 90 win seasons away from joining this group.
stevebaratta
” the Nats will now be looking for their fourth permanent manager since the 2011 season”.
Permanent Manager? There’s no such thing.
saavedra
Robot managers confirmed?
lonechicken
Ted Lerner’s going to be 93 by next postseason. What’s he waiting for, the rebuild and maturation of the next great Nats team? Unfortunately, even if he can back a construction truck full of money to the best managerial candidate, I don’t see one for him to do it.
lesterdnightfly
They’re also letting Mike Maddux go, with the rest of the coaches. Not a smart move. Maddux will be hired within a week.
HubcapDiamondStarHalo
Would LOVE for the Cardinals to grab him!!
mrnatewalter
Maddux’ contract is also up. Rumors state that the Nationals want him as manager.
lesterdnightfly
Haven’t heard that the Nats want him as manager. Where did you get that from?
majorflaw
Letting Maddux go is even more surprising than Dusty. Can’t imagine they see Maddux’s tenure as anything other than successful. And you are correct, lester, Maddux won’t be unemployed for long. Don’t the Mets need a pitching coach?
I was completely wrong here. Never suspected Dusty wouldn’t be back. Perhaps they’ll give Wotus his shot now.
Solaris601
Maddux is one of the best pitching coaches in baseball. I was shocked that Texas let him walk after 2015. If Nats don’t name him manager, then they really need to offer him a contract renewal. If not he’ll be snatched up immediately by another lucky team.
ilikebaseball 2
Now that Loria is out of the game, Lerner has to be the worst owner in baseball. Players lose a game 5 not a manager. And the way they treated Bud Black, so classless. “Baker” is better off, but I feel sorry for the players. Its no fun adjusting to a new manager and system every few years.
AidanVega123
100% agree with you
gocincy
You’re mostly right, but I don’t think it’s right to let Dusty off the hook entirely. He’s a terrible postseason manager. There’s never been a bigger gap between regular and postseason baseball. The games are managed with an entirely different calculus. Dusty is incapable of doing it. Look at Girardi and Hinch right now. They are analytical, digesting a huge amount of data, and considering dozens of moves throughout the game. They are thinking several batters in advance. Dusty is incapable of doing that. Many other managers cannot do it either.
jints1
Hinch? Hasn’t impressed me with his moves.
gofish 2
Yeah, Hinch pulling McCullers after allowing just his second hit of the game was a brilliant move. Girardi also has made mistakes.
Guys like Girardi and Hinch manage by the book. What do the analytics say? 5.32 ERA after the sixth inning? Let’s pull him despite of his success because the numbers tell us to.
Baker is old school. Manages by his gut. Unfortunately, his gut is usually wrong.
oogadebob
McCullers hung a breaking ball middle of the plate to Judge, like perfectly center cut rolling breaking ball. And it wasnt the first one he hung, just the first they hit.
Paired with the analytics that show McCullers is just not good 3rd time through, I think it was the right call or at least justifiable.
Just terrible terrible execution by the bullpen… I mean if you thought Giles would be that bad, they were in trouble even if McCullers pitched 8 innings instead of 6+
outinleftfield
Angelos would certainly have to be in the conversation for worst owner.
Zack35
Who in their right mind would want to manage the Nationals knowing they will get fired when their contract expires
atlbraves2010
its not exactly getting fired if their contract expires…..
pseudostats
Rizzo sounds like a sweetheart with that quote. Does the same quote apply to the GM?
Bert17
Nationals really screwed him. If they weren’t going to bring him back, do it right away so he’d have a better shot at another job. The Tigers obviously wanted an experienced old school kind of guy, so it seems logical that they would have given Baker a serious interview. Given who the Sox seem focused on, it seems doubtful that they would have been interested, so at least he’s not getting hurt by how far down the path they already are.
mrnatewalter
If his contract was up, he was free to interview for any position.
I get what you’re saying, but you’d imagine he’d have enough wits to at least interview for another job in the case the Nationals didn’t renew his contract.
mrkinsm
Uhhh, didn’t they do it right away?
sufferforsnakes
Mets?
oogadebob
For poor Mets fans sake, I hope not… Plus they pretty much got rid of Collins for not listening to any of the analytic department, so I doubt they would double up on the same style of manager. Even if Dusty is a way better media/player manager than Collins was.
bluemoonpoongoon
Bryce Harper Player Manager!!!!!!!!
mrnatewalter
Dear God, that would be a disaster of epic proportions.
jints1
The Nationals and managers are a disaster. First, there was the Bud Black situation. Now Dusty who created a positive environment even though we can quibble with some game decisions. You can’t fire a manager for losing a 5 game series against a team like the Cubs. Scherzer’s injury cost them the series given that Gio had to start the final game. They win game 5 with Max starting. The search for a new manager will be chaotic. Is Brad Ausmus in the cards?
outinleftfield
If you own a team, you can fire a manager for whatever reason you like. In this case, it was taking a team with a huge amount of talent and getting blown out in the playoffs 2 seasons in a row.
majorflaw
“Scherzer’s injury cost them the series given that Gio had to start the final game.”
Exactly. The plan was for Strasburg/Scherzer to start games one and two. And both would have been available to pitch again in the series. Scherzer making only one start messed up Plan A.
“They win game 5 with Max starting.”
While that’s far from guaranteed it’s safe to say that their chances of winning are substantially better if Scherzer starts.
“Is Brad Ausmus in the cards.”
No connection between Ausmus and DC or Rizzo, far as I can recall. Based on the Nationals track record with managers it’s likely to be someone willing to work cheap.
rememberthecoop
I’ve never been a huge fan of Dustys work as a manager but that said, it is not his fault alone that the Nats failed to go further in the playoffs. Rizzo assembled the team but he ain’t gonna fire himself that’s for damn sure. Good luck Dusty.
stevebaratta
I just read that Tony LaRussa has left the Diamondbacks. I could see him managing the Nats.
rememberthecoop
Oh God no. His managing days are over. 2
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
Wow, after they said no team would fire their manager this offseason 17% of the teams in baseball do.
mrkinsm
He wasn’t fired, his contract ended.
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
You know what I meant…
outinleftfield
His contract was not renewed. What is the difference? He won’t be managing the Nationals anymore.
vinscully16
The Nationals lack leadership and accountability on a players’ level. Constantly shuffling managers is akin to treating the symptoms of an issue, but not the root cause. The Nats are exonerating their players by endlessly shuffling managers – accountability on the players level is a must. The Nats are sending the wrong message.
oogadebob
Agreed on some points… While I agree the players have to be held accountable as well, Dusty was more at fault then the players in this case (and bad luck with the injury to Scherzer right before).
There are not a lot of managers who are good with the players and excellent in game managers.
All of them currently have jobs IMO… Unless you want to listen to the Tony LaRussa rumors… But even then that can’t be much more than a 1 or 2 year deal… And the Nats are known to not pay their managers much.
ilikebaseball 2
“Winning a lot of regular season games and winning divisions is not enough,” said Rizzo.
That statement is completely contradictory to when Rizzo talks about the play-offs being a crapshoot and doing his best job to make a team that gets to the play-offs every year. Is it a crapshoot or is it the managers fault they lost a game 5. Rizzo’s should quit himself since he didn’t get them to the world series this year.
differentbears
I guess the thinking is with Dusty Baker it’s less of a crapshoot, but not in their favor. Don’t know if that’s entirely fair, but it seems to be the reality.
mdunkel
How many times did Ryan Zimmerman in game 4/5 come up and not produce? Wow. Dusty has always taken teams that didn’t have all the talent to Division titles. This team was his first loaded and he is gone. See ya in another uniform to n 2019 Bryce Harper. Goodbye Nats
outinleftfield
Dusty has always taken super teams, teams that were in the top 2 or 3 in WAR in baseball in the regular season, and then bowed out early in the playoffs. Every playoff team he has ever had would have won their division with or without him.
Solaris601
Ok, so the idea here is that ownership feels they need a manager to take them to the next level. Who exactly is that gonna be? If anyone feels Baker was lacking in any way just think back to Matt Williams’ 2nd and final year at the helm.
outinleftfield
Surprise, Surprise, Surprise. Dusty is not a manager that can lead a team to the promised land, just an early exit. He is absolutely the best at early exits.
lowtalker1
Ain’t dusty bakers fault that rizzo knowing the bullpen sucked… wouldn’t fully reinforce it.
A Gm’s scapegoat will always be the manager
outinleftfield
You mean the GM that brought in Doolittle (2.40 ERA & 21/22 saves), Madson (1.37 ERA, 1 save and 11/11 holds), and Kintzler (3.46 ERA) to shore up the pen in mid-season trades? Almost forgot about him adding Albers (1.62 ERA) at the beginning of the year.
That the GM you are talking about? Dusty had no excuses.
Sid Bream
@outinleftfield Yeah, of course he had no excuses. Harper hits a hung curve ball in the middle of the plate with bases loaded straight to the outfielder, scores a sac fly-not good enough in that situation. Zimmerman k’s at the plate runners on, your two best players or hitters in the clutch come up with nothing to break the back of the game open. Rendon doesn’t cover the 3rd base line on a perfectly makeable play. Lobaton gets picked off-not even a rookie ball play, and in the situation you just can’t get picked off, it’s not even Z grade baseball-no excuses. Wieters doesn’t block a ball with his chest guard and body, instead he tries to pick it and it goes to the fence, then he throws the ball into right field-we’re talking a Major League catcher. Werth misses a routine fly ball in a park where has played how many games-no excuses-runs..
Yeah, “Dusty had no excuses.”, and ‘you know your baseball’.
BlueSkyLA
For sure his toothpick will be in the Hall of Fame.
ripcookies
I love dusty. Not going to go on a rant on how it shouldn’t always come back on the manager, but when will players start being held accountable in Washington? Even more so Rizzo? Guy keeps firing managers, think it’s time to look in the mirror guys!
Solaris601
You’re absolutely right. They knew what they were getting in Baker – not like he’s any different than he has been the last 20 years. Remember that they could have had Bud Black if they hadn’t lowballed him.
jsaldi
Tough break. Good manager but has always misused pitching staff
B-Strong
Knew this was coming. Dusty just can’t get it done in the playoffs, whether it’s a bumbling mistake of his, such as taking Scherzer out too early, or just his playoff stigma in general.
He’s not managed a team to a playoff series win since 2003 when the Cubs won the Divisional series and crashed and burned in the Championship series.
qbass187
This sounds like a job for Brad Ausmus
stretch123
Nats need to steal Alex Cora from Boston.
carlsoce
I wish the Cards organization would take note of all the managers being fired even with making it to the playoffs… kick Matheny to the curb.
24TheKid
Winning a lot of regular season games and winning divisions would be more than enough in Seattle, I really wish Dipoto would bring him in.
realgone2
Nationals are a joke. They think a manager wins them the World series let alone a post season series. What a buncha bozos.
YawkeysGhost
Another thoroughly classless organization. They will never win.
padreforlife
Rizzo is guy who needs to go. Strasburg innings limit with Riggleman who was good manager to start.
bigdaddyhacks
Jerry dipoto. Hire this dude tonight.
jackiemays
I’d like to see Bo Porter. He saw the core of the team born when he was nats 3rd base coach during 2011-2012,, has previous manager experience and might have learned a lot about analytics during the front office duty with Braves.
simschifan
Wow! Winning a lot of regular season games and winning divisions is not enough? Who the hell would want to work for this dude? Good luck finding a sucker. Loser ass Gm
Sid Bream
Some of the utter rubbish I am reading here is just that, rubbish. Just take a look for a few minutes.
youtube.com/watch?v=rBzAQbfM8v8
Rendon doesn’t protect the 3rd base line on a completely makeable play, Rendon HAS to make that play and he has to cover the line like some of these plays here.
youtube.com/watch?v=JMzZ8yeUyIo
Wieters doesn’t block the ball so it becomes a PB it goes to the fence and then he doubles the error by throwing it into right field. Harper with loaded bases hits a hanging curve ball right in the middle of the plate like a BP drill and hits it straight down the outfielder’s throat, sorry not good enough in a BIG situation when you’re being paid the money and there’s no tomorrow you have to execute. Zimmerman strikes out with runners on, Lobaton gets picked off after being inserted into the game as a pinch runner, not good enough bad luck or not. You just can’t get picked off in that situation that’s not even A ball stuff. Werth let a routine fly ball go right past his glove-no excuses for that at MLB level, he’s played in that park all year and for the past few years, it’s not good enough.
Yeah, let’s blame Dusty Baker for all of these errors. He did his job, the players didn’t. Change the jockey again and you’ll still not be proceeding to the NLCS because it wasn’t Dusty’s fault -fact.
realgone2
Exactly.
jleve618
You can sit down with the packet on info your fo gives you and on a normal day and it will probably get you through a game, but in the postseason, you have to use your eyes. Your gut.
zandant
Dusty has never recovered from the Giants loss to the Angels in the 2002 World Series.