Angels outfielder Justin Upton is still weighing his opt-out decision, which promises to have widespread ramifications for the free-agent market. But as Jeff Fletcher of the Orange County Register reports, the club isn’t just sitting back and waiting to learn Upton’s fate.
Rather, Halos GM Billy Eppler says “there is dialogue going on” between the sides, citing a “positive conversation” with Upton and his agent, Larry Reynolds. He did not divulge details beyond that, quite understandably, so it’s not entirely clear just what was discussed. But it certainly seems as if the team is taking a proactive approach in the hopes that Upton will remain in an Angels uniform for 2018 and beyond.
Upton can choose to enter the open market — which he’d do free and clear of any qualifying-offer-related draft compensation — or elect instead to keep the four-year, $88.5MM guarantee remaining on his contract. The Angels are surely hoping to convince Upton to stay, though we don’t know anything else about the substance of the chatter. Beyond pitching Upton on the organization, it’s not known whether some additional inducement has or could be contemplated. In theory, though, the sides could completely re-work the contract, modify it in some way, or instead just continue their discussion into free agency.
Unusual circumstances surrounded the 30-year-old Upton’s move out west. Despite the presence of the opt-out provision, the club acquired him from the Tigers at the last possible moment — during the revocable trade period, on August 31st, the last day that teams could add outside players who’d be eligible for the postseason. Righty Grayson Long and a player to be named or cash went to Detroit in the deal, which included no assurances or future considerations regarding Upton’s remaining contract (or lack thereof).
Upton played well in Los Angeles, though the club fell shy of the postseason. Through 115 plate appearances, he slashed .245/.357/.531 with seven home runs — good for a 137 OPS+ that matched his output over his first 125 games on the year with the Tigers. Though Upton has had a few productivity dips in his eleven-year career, he carries an excellent .269/.348/.479 cumulative batting line through more than six thousand trips to the plate at the game’s highest level.
Youth is still mostly on Upton’s side. So are defensive metrics, which see him as a solid-to-excellent fielder in left. In the aggregate, it’s fairly easy to make out a case for Upton commanding a guarantee of $20MM or more annually for a five- or six-year term — as he received the last time he went to the open market. Now that the risks of playing out the season are in the past, he doesn’t have much reason to take a (hypothetical) offer from the Angels before testing the broader market, though perhaps he could try to gain a sweetener if he’s at all inclined to avoid the risks of free agency by declining the opt-out opportunity.
If he wants a sweetener in exchange for not opting out the Angels shouldn’t budge. If he were a lock to get more money in free agency than his current contract he wouldn’t make that request, he’d just opt out.
Any smart player would at least explore the option of staying in a place he says he enjoys playing.
Going to the open market doesn’t bar him from doing that and could make his original team up the ante to keep him.
P.S. I know how to downvote other people’s comments too.
Some guys sign where they want to play rather than a few more dollars. There are fewer guys like Greinke than there are guys like your Gwynn or our Ripken. Guys that wanted to play somewhere so they signed an extension to stick around without exploring FA. It is not always about the bottom line dollars. On top of that, there is the chance that he doesn’t get more money in FA than his current deal pays. In this case, Upton would be a fool NOT to talk to the Angels and see if they will give him what he wants to stay in a place he has said he likes playing.
That’s nice. Glad you figured that feature out.
Once again, taking an extension is not the only way Upton, or any player for that matter, gets to stay with his current team. If he is a free agent and is fielding offers from other teams, then his current team will be pressured to up their ante to keep him, even if he ultimately does re-sign with them. Also, what makes you think Upton is closer to Gwynn than he is to Greinke? He already went chasing the money the first time.
The only scenario where he would try to leverage the opt-out into a raise is if he doesn’t think he can get more in free agency. In that case, if he tries to pull that the Angels would just say “Ok, go ahead and opt out” because they know that if he does they probably wouldn’t have to pay him that much more to re-sign him and possibly even less. And in that scenario, he would probably just not opt out. Meanwhile, if he genuinely thinks he can get more in free agency he won’t ask for an extension he’ll just opt out, start a bidding war and the Angels will be forced to call or fold. An opt out is ALWAYS player-friendly and team-unfriendly.
Or his agent could just present the Angels with comps and what they signed for and he can extend for something in that range that both sides are comfortable with.
And limit his market to just one team and decline the chance to start a bidding war for his services? I’m gonna go with “no.”
Uptons already made a significant amount of money. I’m sure he’s fine with leaving a couple million on the table if it means playing for a team he likes
Outinleftfield, don’t bother. He knows all about this because he comments on any upcoming free agent or extension candidate the same. That’s why he’s an agent or something and not some douche sitting in his apartment on mommy and daddy’s dime. Oh wait….
People always say that and it never actually happens. As mentioned before, Upton already chased the money the first time he hit free agency so what makes you think this time will be any different? Even if he does like playing for the Angels he will get more from them if he has 29 other teams driving up his price. Like, would you rather play for the Angels for less money or more money?
Upton isn’t an extension candidate dumb ass. And once again, you don’t know me. Now why is it that every comment from you is targeting me or mentions me in some way? Even on threads I had nothing to do with. Is there something you need to tell us?
Are we at the part where you say you’re done commenting then spend like two weeks commenting emojis yet?
I commented how long ago? You have commented three times since then. Not every thread I mention you weirdo. I get fed up that you tell EVERYONE that they are wrong and belittle them for their own opinions. Seriously grow up kid and realize people won’t always agree with you and that you’re not always right.
One of those three was to JDGoat. And yeah you do mention me in every comment. Like a month ago you answered someone else’s question then ended it with “I could be wrong. WCR would probably know.” And every one of your comments in the last 6 months is either a reply to me or mentions me.
It is a FACT, not an opinion, that Justin Upton has absolutely no incentive to forego free agency at this point. Unless of course he thinks the remaining money on his contract is more than he’ll get in free agency in which case they Angels wouldn’t offer to bump his pay in the first place.
And right back atcha on that last sentence.
So it’s indeed not a fact and absolutely an opinion. Keep eating your words. And that one comment I did actually mention you, wasn’t a dig. It was because I figured you’d know whatever it was about. As annoying as you are and can be, you do seem to know baseball. I’ll give you that.
Still a fact. You can make a near bulletproof case that if a bigger contract is out there for Justin Upton this offseason, the best way to maximize that contract is to enter free agency. Don’t say “What if he wants to stay with the Angels?” because him being a free agent doesn’t mean he can’t sign with the Angels. And if there is no bigger contract out there for Upton, why would the Angels offer to bump his pay? In that scenario they would just say “Ok, go ahead. Opt out.”
I know your other comment wasn’t a dig. I just find it odd that every single comment from you has to be about me in some way. Even on threads I had no part in.
You’re wrong again. Bottom line is every comment about a potential free agent on here is OPINION. You’ve not been apart of my comments on plenty of articles on here. Check your ego kid.
Not really. What reason does Justin Upton have to forego the open market at this point? There is nothing with a halfway relevant chance of happening that would hurt his free agent stock between now and the offseason.
And I’d be hard pressed to find one comment from you that isn’t replying to me or mentioning me.
Keep reading then kid. And what reason? How about if he and his family like the area and want to stay there? He’s made more than enough money in his career. Does he have a good reason to us to skip free agency for less money? Maybe not. However, it’d be his opinion of what’s best for him and his family. And he’s entitled to it.
I’m glad you replied because you just proved my point. If he and his family like the area and want to stay, then he can test free agency and milk the Angels for more money because they’ll have to up the ante if there are 29 other teams bidding on him. Like, if I were to offer you $100 tomorrow and in exchange all you had to do was do whatever you were going to do that day anyway, would you take it? Of course you would. What you are suggesting is that Upton doesn’t take it. And the “He’s already made enough money” thing isn’t an excuse. Why not get more money if you can and don’t have to give up anything in return? It’s a fools errand to argue in favor of any player taking a paycut. Especially one who already went chasing the money the last time he was a free agent. Two years ago a bunch of nitwits on the Padres sites were saying that the Padres should “just sign him” or even that he should accept the QO even though him chasing the money wherever it took him was the most predictable thing to happen since the dawn of time.
You’re right, it’s not an excuse. It’s an OPINION.
And it is a FACT that Upton already chased the money once and is going to milk the Angels (or whoever he signs with) for all he can.
It is also a FACT that it is extremely rare for a player to not say “These are my guys. I would love to stay here.” Regardless of what they ultimately end up doing. Like, Jeff Samardzija and Zack Greinke are the only two names that come to mind when I think players who blatantly said they were going to wait out free agency and sign with the highest bidder even tho a hefty majority of players are thinking it. So while Upton will at the very least test the open market in order to pressure the Angels to up their ante, I’m not even convinced he’ll take a discount to sign with them. It’s not like he was there that long in the first place. It’s not like those of us in San Diego didn’t hear the same thing two years ago.
And that’s all your opinion, (Shark and Greinke aside) and you’re absolutely entitled to that
It’s a fact but that’s ok.
It’s all still opinion.
Umm no, Upton DID go chasing the money two years ago. Waiting out free agency IS the more prudent route and most players who have made it this far do it, regardless of how much they claim to like the team they are currently playing for.
Upton waited for free agency, that is a fact. Was it because he “chased money”? Nobody knows. Everything’s a opinion.
Of course it was. That is the entire reason to wait out free agency, to maximize your earnings. Tigers offered him more money than anyone else and an opt out (which carries some intrinsic value, and opt outs are ALWAYS player friendly despite some people incorrectly perceiving them as mutually beneficial).
That’s your opinion for waiting out free agency and you’re entitled to it.
The whole point of free agency is 1. You can negotiate with all 30 teams and naturally, more bidders means more demand and more demand means higher price and 2. You get to choose who you play for rather than being told who you are playing for. THAT is a fact. It is also a fact that, at this point, Upton gains nothing by foregoing free agency.
MY FACTS > YOUR OPINION
Opinion
Fact 😛
You can keep going as much as you want. It all boils down to you not having any concrete evidence to back up your so called “facts”. Therefore, everything you ever say to anyone on here about how they’re wrong, is just your opinion. The thing is kid, you know I’m right about it being opinion. But your parents or whoever must have raised you with this entitlement of getting your way like a 5 year old girl. Seriously grow up and realize the world doesn’t revolve around what Ryan believes. Especially when you can’t separate the meaning of a fact from the meaning of a opinion.
No concrete evidence? Lol! You obviously never took an introductory Economics course (or maybe you did but failed) because you are completely clueless as to the basic principles of supply and demand. If Upton enters free agency, all 30 teams have the right to offer him contracts as opposed to just the Angels. The more teams offering him contracts, the more money he’s gonna get. It’s just how the market works. The endgame is to start a bidding war for the player and force every interested team to put up or shut up. And don’t troll and say “What if he wants to stay with the Angels?” Signing an extension is not a prerequisite to doing that. Players sign with their original teams in free agency all the time (see Hill, Rich or Trumbo, Mark) or even sign with a team that recently traded them (see Chapman, Aroldis or Hammel, Jason). The idea is that if there are other teams bidding on him, the Angels will feel pressured to up their ante. If they don’t, then maybe some other team will offer him enough money to lure him away. There’s no way he loses money by doing this. The Angels’ season is already over so there is no risk of injury or poor performance hurting his earning potential.
An opinion is a preference for or judgment of something. Basic market principles and the idea that an extension isn’t the only way a player can stay with his current team are FACTS, not opinions. And now you are mad because I’ve backed you into a corner and all you can do is keep repeating the same comment over and over again.
Lastly, what is this hang-up you have with another individual’s parents that has no bearing whatsoever on the topic at hand. Resorting to other subject matter in some pathetic attempt to throw off your debilitating wrong comments doesn’t work. Plain and simple.
Opinion, end of story.
Fact, NOW end of story.
Nah, still Opinion.
Which part is an opinion? The basic market principles, the idea that players who are already basically free agents have no objective incentive to forego free agency, the part about free agents generally chasing the money and how Upton did exactly that two years ago or the part about an extension not being the only way Upton gets to stay with the Angels?
Actually, all of it. Thanks!
Exactly, all of it is a fact. Now you get it 🙂
Actually it’s all opinion. Nice try tho
I don’t try, I do. It’s still all fact
I think it’s called a theory ! Not necessarily a fact. Way to many variables involved that are not known. You both are right! You both have opinions AND facts!
What part of my comment is not objectively correct?
Because you don’t know the player himself
Don’t have to
Not all players are the same! Stop acting like you know it all! You DONT!
Perhaps not, but the default assumption will always be that the player chases the money, Upton already did chase the money once and even if he wants to stay in Anaheim, going to free agency would not bar him from doing that.
Upton did it ONCE! Other players do that too, earlier in their careers they do chase the most money, USUALLY ! But as they get older
they have many other reasons to sign with a team! They could have a family
and want to win a WS! Many other factors! Not always about the money. Just your opinion! Accept it
What makes you so sure he won’t do it again? As mentioned before, you can count on one hand the players who explicitly said “I’m going to test free agency and sign with whoever offers the most money and that’s it” even though most of them were thinking it. As a Padre fan, I heard the exact same thing two years ago from people saying that Upton should/would take an extension and then he rather predictably went to free agency instead.
Even if JUp genuinely does want to stay with the Angels, he’ll get more money from them if he is fielding offers from other teams as they will feel pressured to up their ante. There’s no way he ends up getting less money from the Angels by taking this strategy. If he wants to win a WS, Anaheim probably isn’t the place to do that. They are not a good team, they have really no way to get better and sooner or later they will have to trade Mike Trout. I know money isn’t everything but he’s not going to take less money to play for the Angels when he could get more money to play for the Angels. That’s a fact. NO ONE would take less money to keep doing what they were going to do in the first place.
I’m starting to presume you are cubsfan2489’s other account. If so, it’s pretty hilarious considering a few months ago you were harassing me for having two accounts even though this is actually my only account.
No! I’m not cubsfan2489! By no means am I Cubs fan! I can’t stand Joe Maddon. He’s the most overated mgr. in MLB ! LoL! I am a lifelong Cards fan for 56 years. But I still will have to disagree with you on certain players reasons signing with clubs! As for Upton, you might be right, but not all cases are the same !
I wouldn’t expect you to admit it either way.
I never claimed to know every player’s reasons for signing with a given club. All I claimed is that there is objectively no incentive to take an extension when you are this close to free agency. Even if you want to stay with your current team, going to free agency won’t bar you from doing that and best case scenario will force them to up their ante to keep you.
As for Upton, he already chased the money once and he said the exact same things about the Padres that he said about the Angels and he wasn’t even in Anaheim that long so I don’t believe for one second that he is even willing to give them a discount, let alone forego free agency.
I believe the Upton narrative is already old
My point is OTHER players have MANY reasons for signing
And it’s not always about MONEY!
It’s not old, I never said that other players don’t have many reasons for signing and no player will take less money to stay with a team he likes when he could milk that team for more money.
There are plenty of examples of players taking less money to play for a team that they like
and many other reasons as well! I’m not talking about Upton anymore! You’re beating a dead horse!
Before you come back with the same old tired BS that you have been spouting all along , the Upton narrative is dead
And also plenty of examples of players chasing the money, including Upton two years ago. And by going to free agency a player can get more money to stay with a team he likes because that team will be pressured to up their ante when he has 29 other teams bidding on him.
So I guess your THEORY didn’t pan out huh? See; Upton signs extension with Angels for LESS money because he LOVED playing in Anaheim! LoL
So Upton isn’t an extension candidate huh? Somebody should’ve told the Angels that before they signed him to one for LESS money! LoL
Not a smart move. He could have gotten more money AND gotten to stay with the Angels if he just waited like a month. Don’t be surprised if they too try to trade him in like a year or two.
So Upton isn’t an extension candidate huh! Somebody should’ve told him
Well, yeah. Someone really should have.
Six years, $150 million, full no-trade clause and call it a day.
Holy Josh Hamilton
He’s not worth that kind of scratch and Arte is not going to make that kind of mistake again.
Really? Are you SURE about that?
“Arte is not going to make that mistake again”…did he tell you that over dinner or the back nine?
no thank you
I’d say that amount is a bit of a reach for Upton. I think it’s more likely he signs for 5 yrs. 110-115 MIL with an opt-out after the third year (aka the Mike Trout walk year)
If I were the angels, I try to convince him that he won’t get more money on the open market. If I were a GM, I wouldn’t give him more years, but maybe a little more money.
2 Year extension for $44 million. Makes his deal 6 years and $132 million and takes him through his age 36 season.
Agreed
Am I the only Angel who hopes he opts out and doesn’t sign with the Angels?
Nope. He was only so-so in the field and cost L.A. two games on misplayed balls.
But his bat is sure nice behind Trout.
Sorry. That doesn’t sound right.
Imagine how someone with bad English might have written it, “Trout sure likes having Upton’s big bat in his behind.”
yeah i actually prefer he opts out and doesn’t resign. He had a good year but i’m not sure i want him long term. I especially do not want any “sweeteners” that people keep throwing out there.
Upton is always at his best when a paycheck is in order. Once payday comes he backs off on both defense and offense.
If I were him there is no way I’d opt out. Power bats just don’t get paid like they used to, plus he’s a corner outfielder who isn’t a great defender. $88.5MM is a lot of money to walk away from.
Justin Upton is being greedy, 88.5 million is more than he’s worth. He doesn’t steal many bases, he plays below average defense, and his bat speed is bound to decline into his thirties. I say the Angel’s cut him loose, and spend that money on some pitching.
not the angels choice whether to keep him or not
Pretty much typical uninformative chatter. Unless Upton was terrible, which wasn’t, of course he’d say that he might opt out, if only indirectly, and of course the Angels FO will say that they are having “conversations” with him–nothing “really official.” Just due diligence on the part of everyone. Still, it is an interesting situation: Angels have a fair chunk of cash being freed up, but with obvious big needs at 3 positions and in the rotation (3b, 2b, LF, and a durable starter who is reasonably effective). Upton has put up good numbers but he seems to heat up only in contract years and the market for corner OF’s whose main asset is power is somewhat limited. Angels have a fairly short term need (put a winner over next 3 years, before Trout’s FA) and versatile, potentially riskier (but maybe not given Upton’s contract year patterns): e.g. Lorenzo Cain. Of course, if Miami is seriously thinking of a fire sale, they have exactly the players that the Angels need: Gordon at 2b, Prado at 3rd, Tazawa/Ziegler in the ‘Pen, Straily for the rotation, and any of Stanton/Yelich/Ozuna for the OF. Angels just have gotten together a somewhat presentable farm now, and that may just barely be enough (or not) to get this package–although Halos can presumably eat a lot of salary in return.
Upton is Texas bound being either with the Rangers or Astros. Both Teams needs his services. Astros not as much but the Rangers really do need him
WE NEED PITCHING MORE THAN ANYTHING PLEASE!!!!
Arte don’t pay arms. Zack Greinke was excellent with the Angels and Arte waved goodbye happily.
Angelos in Baltimore is the same way.
Not the case they tried to resign greinke that’s why they told Torri hunter they didn’t have the money to resign him but greinke took the most money he could with the Dodgers so the angels were left without an outfielder and so they went for josh Hamilton
Eppler has said that any pitching acquired will likely come through minor league deals or trades (like the Felix Pena trade w/ the Cubs). “Free agency is a supplement and not a main source”.
He isn’t going to get much more than what he would be leaving on the table. It will come down to whether or not he’s happy in LA and whether or not they are pushing to contend in 2018. My guess is at his age, he wants to be with a team that will be contending will largely depend on where he signs.
If Upton truly plays his best in a “contract year”, then the solution is to replace the remainder of his deal with 5 years of escalating salaries and an opt-out after every season. Every season becomes a contract year—Upton hits 35-40 HR per season and finishes 2nd to Trout in the AL MVP voting. Everyone wins.