While the Athletics still face an uncertain path to finally landing a new ballpark, the club’s announcement of a target site has gained some support from the business community, Kimberly Veklerov of the San Francisco Chronicle writes. It certainly seems as if there’s some public relations jockeying going on as the ballclub attempts to ramp up its efforts. As Veklerov notes, some of the initial political response was less than fully supportive. And as the Chronicle further reports, there may be some environmental concerns with the site under consideration.
More from out west:
- Across the bay, the Giants have stumbled through a disastrous season. CEO Larry Baer discussed the state of affairs as the campaign comes to an end with Andrew Baggarly of the Mercury News reports. It’s an interview you’ll certainly want to read in full, as Baggarly pushed the executive on some interesting subjects. Baer emphasized that the organization can hope for turnaround efforts from some key players, noting in particular that the club got much less than anticipated from key pitchers. He explained: “I’m not proclaiming that’s what is going to happen, but I am saying that we believe with the talent level, we can get back.” In addition to discussing the state of the organization’s finances and the ongoing fan support (and, thus, revenue), among other topics of note, Baer also addressed the role of GM Bobby Evans with his predecessor, Brian Sabean, still a figure in the organization. Baer says he’s still confident in the front office “structure,” explaining that it’s a “pretty collaborative” unit that consists mostly of “all the same people” that built the club’s recent, better-performing rosters.
- Mariners skipper Scott Servais discussed his team’s season in comparison to that of the division-leading Astros, as Greg Johns of MLB.com writes. Though Servais notes that he’s not focused on what the Houston organization is up to, he acknowledges that it has “set the bar” for the rest of the division. The second-year skipper believes his own ballclub needs to continue to “get more athletic and be able to defend” over the winter — though, of course, he also notes that the M’s haven’t given up on sneaking back into Wild Card position this year.
- The Dodgers are continuing to monitor the balky elbow of star shortstop Corey Seager, as skipper Dave Roberts told reporters including MLB.com’s Ken Gurnick (Twitter links). While it still seems some sort of offseason procedure may be required, the joint is in “playable” condition. Dealing with the pain and preventing any compensation-related problems are surely some of the factors at play here; an injection, though, isn’t considered an option, Roberts notes.
Lack of defense is not why the Mariner’s are stuck around ,500. Their defense is pretty good and the outfield is one of the better ones. Their starting pitching and bullpen are a different story. In my opinion they also have a problem with their offense which isn’t consistent. They can score 10 runs in one game and then 3 in the next four. Their outfield lacks power but does add speed and defense so I’m not sure where they can get more athletic unless they move Cano to first and find a more athletic second baseman.
You can only throw so much money
If your farm is decent you cannot field a complete team within their means
Example the angels
They got so much money on the field and a barren farm. Something happens… they’re screwed
They’ve done pretty well with something happening to every pitcher they have, Trout being out for over a month, and still being hamstrung by Hamilton and Pujols contracts. Parker Bridwell, JC Ramirez, Alex Meyer, Troy Scribner have started games for them. Don’t blame the Angels for how bad your Padres are lol
You get what I’m saying though
They are set to win now. One thing goes wrong or 2… and they tail spin
Without depth or a strong farm teams set up like this will fail
Consistency on offense, no doubt. But the biggest issue is pitching. They’ve used 40 pitchers last I looked and when your pitching is that bad and you’re jogging out journeymen and AAA guys every couple games, inconsistency with the offense is going to show much more than if you had pitching capable of limiting opposing offenses to say two or three runs a game instead of five or six.
That Larry Baer interview was pure delusion. He probably thinks unicorns fly out of his butt. Using managerial failure Matt Williams as council and forging your hopes on a DBacks turnaround is fantasy. Weeping about how much pitching you lost this year is mitigated by pitching depth, the Dodgers are a blueprint for this strategy.
The interviewer should’ve pummeled him with recent successful rebuilding endeavors (Cubs and Astros) and made this whimpering simp show his true motivation of lining his pockets in the short term while selling the Giants fans on a cotton candy fairy tale.
In reading the entire story, I too was surprised to see Baer cite Matt Williams as his ear-to-the-ground guy. Matt was a competitor as a player, but wasn’t known for having a large “awareness factor” in the dugout or clubhouse….
Baer did a lot of vague doubling-back in his comments as well. Lots of corporate-speak.
At least he did refer to his “baseball people” as the ones making decisions. We’ll see.
well what I am interested in seeing – if your ear is to the ground, they have started building a real analytics department. They were casting a net for people in the bay area recently with engineering and programming experience to build statistical models and supporting software. If they can really integrate analytics into the current environment they may really have something cooking, especially since what a lot of ppl don’t get is the hardships of trying to sign position players in SF.
So from what you say, I guess Matt Williams will be in charge of that, right?
Not a very good attempt at being snide. Nowhere did he come close to insinuating that Matt Williams would be in charge of analytics. And as to Williams, just because he did not do well as a manager does not mean his baseball knowledge is not valuable. My understanding was his problem in DC was about how he related to the players. Williams is a marine. He’s old school. But I’m sure about one thing; he knows more about baseball than anyone posting here.
“he knows more about baseball than anyone posting here.
Such a convincing argument. Tim, Steve, Todd: Guys, it’s time to close the comments section permanently. We fans have no right to make observations, cite stats or historical facts, or express opinions.
Larry Baer says he is excited about deciding to build up an analytics department? Theo, Luhnow, Klentak, Friedman, and others have been doing that for years.
The Giants are in Silicon Valley for gosh sakes, with local tech expertise galore.
I admire the Giants’ WS success as much as anyone. But as to analytics, what took them so long?
What are you complaining about? An analytics department doesn’t guarantee a WS ring. Why try to fix something that ain’t broke…Oh, the Giants don’t play in Silicon Valley.
Gosh, my mistake. Having the stadium some 40-50 miles from the Valley negates the entire premise. Funny how the Giants claim San Jose and environs as their own market……
p.s. I was responding to WolfChan, and to what Baer said in the full article about analytics. Did you happen to read it before heaving the Gazetteer at me?
You missed the larger point. The team was decimated by injuries. A turn around of 25 games next season is highly probable.
Nice rationalization jump from “analytics not mattering” to “they had a lot of injuries.” Keep digging….
Really, do you ever address things in the context they were offered? Or answer questions posed to you? Talk about missing the point…..
p.s. In whose market area is Silicon Valley?
p.p.s. What took the Giants so long to turn to analytics?
p.p.p.s. Again, did you even read the original Baer article?
I read the article. His conversation with Matt Williams had to do with the D’backs turn around from their disastrous 2016 season. Analytics don’t guarantee wins. They are helpful though. Why did it take them so long? I don’t know. Is it imperative that they have an Analytics department. No. Maybe they can afford it now after paying off the stadium?
Forget it. Over your head…..
Don’t be ridiculous. Clearly, with Williams’ experience and full immersion in the sport for decades, he does know more about baseball than anyone posting opinions here. But, you’re making the leap, against logic, that I’m saying he can’t be wrong. He absolutely can be as can anyone in the sport. But the comments here had nothing to do with any individual decision he made. He was being derided in general which I assume was due to his failure as manager. In other words his opinion can’t be of any value because he was unsuccessful in one role. I reject that, and if that is what you’re defending, then I’d say you have problem. Because you cannot categorize people as being either valuable or useless. Everyone falls somewhere in between.
They need some changes in their “collaborative ” group. Maybe get some of the people back that helped them through the successful era, bring back Sabian & Co.
Sabean and company haven’t gone anywhere. Why do you need to bring them back?
The Giants are not even close to any of the NL west frontrunners. Even the Padres are making a strong case to currently have a better team The longer they refuse to rebuild the worse it will be.
Imagine the return you could get from posey/bum. Sure, spend a few years in the cellar but you could immediately retool the desert of a farm system
The Giants are in serious trouble. They aren’t the Diamondbacks. The D-Backs are almost entirely players in their 20’s on their way up. The Giants could have a $190 million payroll next year without adding a player from the outside. They don’t have a lot on the farm and they’re terrible. They’re in worse shape than the Tigers were this year.
the dodgers are a blueprint for no one but the marlins – the way the dodgers built themselves is by leveraging the money they get from an investment group – they have built there foundation on different rules than any other team in the majors by buying out bad contracts for picks and overstocking expensive backup players because the investment group can absorb the pain and spread it around – now they have a core of young players because they didn’t need to play for the last so many years by the same rules as everyone else.
Really because the only productive player they have by taking on bad contracts is Alex Wood and even he wasnt necessarily acquired in a salary dump. 17 teams passed on Seager. Every team passed on Bellinger. Its not the dodgers fault they are good at scouting. The only player the dodgers have from a so called bad contract leverage trade is a prospect named josh sbortz. They passed on Moncada to sign Yadier Alverez. Thats a tough decision that any other team had to make. Its not diffrent rules as any other team
The Dodgers money advantage does not come in the form of player acquisition, or at least in the scenarios the commenter above suggests. So you’re right about that. But their depth, which was crucial to their run this year, comes almost entirely from overpaying veterans to be role players, something almost no one else can do. And most of all, from being able to retain key players without it affecting their others personnel. They paid huge to keep Jansen and Turner last Winter (arguably their 2nd and 3rd most important players). Virtually every other team would have had to give one up, if not both.
Agree only up to a point. For one, calling Turner’s contract an overpay is borderline laughable. Considering his performance on both sides of the ledger the only question is why nobody offered to pay him a whole lot more. Jansen maybe but again look at what premium closers have been pulling down in recent years, and his contract does not look outsized at all. Sure few other team with $250m in salary obligations could sign both of them, but a team with a reasonable cash flow and $100m in annual payroll could have easily done so. Even the Marlins were in pursuit of Jansen.
Just because the Dodgers made 2 good picks does not make them “good at scouting”. In reality, they got lucky with a couple picks, especially with Bellinger. But that’s exactly what I would say about any team, including my own, because the draft is mostly a crapshoot. If the Dodgers are so good at scouting why did they take Chris Anderson, Tom Windle, and Brandon Dixon in the first 3 rounds before taking Bellinger? Look up their minor league stats and you’ll see it isn’t just more seasoning they’re lacking.
According to MLB.com Corey Seager was only the 48th top prospect in 2013, and only the 8th highest rated SS prospect. In 2013 he jumped to 13th, and the 4th best SS prospect one year later so there was a lot of development that was not foreseen.
Look through the drafts and you’ll see that every team has passed on a better player than the one they took. That happens a lot. 24 teams passed on Mike Trout. Look at 2011. The Dodgers took LHP Chris Reed, whom they traded for Grant Dayton, while passing on Sonny Gray, Joe Ross, Jackie Bradley Jr, and Michael Fulmer. Examples can be found for every team drafting a gem that other teams missed and then missing out on others.
While i agree about every team passing on good players eventually you have to give credit where its due. There is a reason why the Giants, Angels , Dbacks have been at the bottom of farm system rankings for years now. Dodgers are hitting on many draft picks since 2011 and i dont think all of it is because of a crapshoot. Does that factor in absolutely. But its not the only reason
Crapshoot? Nah. The Dodgers have had more talent over the past decade. The Giants have more Series Rings. The Giants have had a more consistent and focused management over the past couple of decades. Larry Baer envisioned AT&T a block from its current location back in the late 70’s. It was another decade before he actually received a paycheck from the Giants.
New to baseball? If you don’t think the draft is a crapshoot, at least for the most part, then you haven’t been following it very closely. And you avoided my question. If luck doesn’t play a big role, why did the Dodgers draft 3 guys, none of whom will have much of a major league career, if any,, before drafting Bellinger?
Peaks and valleys. Just because the Dodgers have hit on a particularly good run of picks, I guarantee it won’t continue. Yes, some teams have better scouting than others, but drafting is about projecting development, and no team yet has been able to see into the future. There are too many vagaries in the process. Injuries, and failing to develop are all too common for all teams. Believing that your team, no matter which one, is going to continue to be drafting MLB average or better players, is pure hubris.,
No. There are never any sure things drafting players, in any sport. The NBA draft used to have 10 rounds when they had less then 20 teams. Baseball has a longer development time then any other sport. Doesn’t Baseball have like 40 rounds. You have to have the organization to develop a team.
It’s about more than drafting, it’s also about trading well. The Dodgers got Turner for nothing and Taylor for Zach Lee. Fair to say, neither of their former teams knew what they had. They haven’t always traded so well of course but it’s difficult to think of anyone of proven value who they’ve let go recently, and getting those two was pure highway robbery.
Have the Dodgers won a World Series within the past 10 years? The Dodgers have had better players. But, they have not had better teams.
“Larry Baer envisioned AT&T a block from its current location back in the late 70’s.”
Ok, if that’s true, and If Larry Baer is such a visionary, why did it take him so long to address analytics? Even the woeful Padres are ahead of him there, and he’s years behind the Dodgers, Cubs, Nats, and Phillies in the NL alone.
You’re funny. Of those 5 teams, how many WS rings, and appearances, do they have in the past decade. Analytics don’t guarantee success.
“Analytics don’t guarantee success.”
Neither does a head in the sand. Adios.
I agree. The current Dodgers FO does an excellent job; they now are very well run. My complaint was with the statement that implied that drafting Seager and Bellinger were solely because of “good scouting”. Anyone that follows baseball knows there are very few sure things, that projecting development is next to impossible, and if a ROY is drafted in the 4th round it’s pure luck.
There’s a problem with your assessment in my opinion. Drafting Seager was no accident. He had a feel for hitting and was an advanced high school bat. He was passed over, because teams didn’t believe he could stick at SS. Bellinger has a similar background, he was an athlete with advanced high school bat. The profile didn’t necessarily fit the future projections at 1B. Yet the Dodgers instituted a swing change that allowed him to get to that power. Verdugo well same set of circumstances advanced high school bat that teams passed on, because he wanted to hit. Heck even Calhoun was an extremely advanced bat drafted in the 4th. And to be honest he’ll probably posses more power than Seager and will grow into a better pure hitter than Bellinger. Yet we all know the defensive limitations.
We can keep going with the Rios’ and etc of the world. This isn’t just pure luck. It isn’t. And if you want to know why they target the Anderson’s Windel’s, of the world then you don’t kind of understand how they’ve drafted. They essentially have gone underslot value to target premium high school talent. They’ve accomplished many phases to put them in the spot they are in they’ve drafted, they’ve developed, and they’ve simple targeted certain skill sets whether it be the emergence of Turner, Taylor, or Toles. So if you say it’s not just “good scouting” well it never truly is. But when you continually have similar skill sets that are drafted and developed, aka LH hitters that rake, well then there is more to it than pure luck.
Sabean, Evans, and Baer have already gone through 2 rebuilds with the Giants. They know what they are doing.
Honestly, I think the Giants could possibly rebound. I mean.. every meaningful player except Posey had a down year.
Yeah but if you watched them this year, in a lot of cases it looked a lot more like “new normal” or “getting old” than “down year.” I can see Crawford returning to form and MadBum staying healthy, but that’s about it. Pence and Cueto are getting old (and in the latter case, is out of shape). Panik never was all that good except for one season. They have no LF, CF or 3B to speak of, and no competent starters after Samardzija (and barely him). They’re a bad team with a couple (Posey, MadBum) stars who aren’t getting any younger either. What they should do is sell.
“Panik never was all that good except for one season.”
Apparently you haven’t been watching him lately; you might want to check some stats. This is his 4th year and 2016 was his only bad year, and that can be attributed to coming back from injury. He did lose his swing for a little while, but he’s been as hot as anyone lately. In the second half of the season he’s slashed .310/.372/,454, and he’s been on a tear over the last 28 days when he’s slashed a .367/.438/.544.
Few things I’m curious about the Dodgers. Firstly they claim to be pro working for starts by production. Dre is producing, while Grandy isn’t. Why not get Dre some more ABs and let Grandy take over in later innings. Let Taylor get some starts at SS and give Seager a chance to rest. Let A-Gone take some pinch hit situations to get comfortable with the idea. Have Kiké and Joc play more CF. Play Chase against more Righties and let Logan play in later innings to let the silver fox rest. Play Barns more as a reward for productivity. I mean seriously Grandy is a great player but we need to get back to winning and build some trust with ourselves and team.
Agreed, whoever leads in WAR every week gets to play the following week! WAR is the most important statistic in the history of statistics, so let’s go by that for everything.
WAR is made for long term look at a player not week to week
Giants should trade for Chris Davis…send the Orioles Matt Cain.
Cain is done. Why would you want to pay $20M for an ERA over 6? If you *want* a starter with an ERA that high, any AA team can help you.
Hah! It’s the Giants who would never do that trade, not the O’s! Chris Davis is the third worst contract in baseball, after Pujols and MIggy. You can’t give that away.
I dunno – Giants not happy with Belt and want more power. Os are stupid enough to try Cain for a year.
I would gladly pay Cains one year of $20+Mil if it meant I could move that horrendous 5 more years of the Davis contract.
Cain is a free agent. He can’t be traded.
Cain is only a FA if the Giants buy him out. They could pick up his option and then trade him if they want to. It’s highly improbable, but Cain can indeed be traded.
Umm…The option $9 million. Who is going to want a 33yr old, coming off 3 bad years, at $9 million. He can only hope for a minor league contact.
Nope, The option is for $7.5m, But like I said, them picking it up is highly improbable.
I confused it with Matt Moore’s option. I like them picking it up. All of the Giants pitchers had sucky years. If they returned to career norms, they wouldn’t be in playoff contention, but it would be a positive sign.
Sorry, I misspoke, The option is for $21m, The buyout is $7.5m. The only way that option gets picked up is if some other team tells the Giants they want to trade for Cain and will pay the $21m salary, and that’s not happening.
The Giants are Trapped. Trapped in the flawed policies and transactions of BOTH Sabean and Evens that have the team burdened with exorbitant salaries being paid to declining and under-performing veterans. Prospects traded for veterans in the faint hope of sustaining the team for “one more year” of contention have short-changed the feeding system of their minor leagues and prompted unreasonable expenditures on free agents that has further bloated the payroll. The rebuilding needs to start and tough decisions will need to be made; perhaps some of the veterans that are viewed as “fixtures” need to be viewed as “just passing through”. Improvements also need to be made in scouting, drafting and developing players’ new talent needs to continually cycle into the major league roster.. Whatever “blueprint” the organization has for the bullpen, needs to be reevaluated. Larry Baer is in damage control mode. Clearly he is contractually stuck with players not valued to the degree of their contracts (based on their performance) in the open market. Larry is just buying time until those contracts expire and the full blown rebuild can begin.
The giants did a great job getting those 3 WS championships. They now need to dump what they can in trades, or dfa some guys and sadly trade the faces of the franchise to compete in 2020. Madbum or posey maybe both
“Prospects traded for veterans in the faint hope of sustaining the team for “one more year” of contention…”
So, who are these prospects, by them being traded away, has decimated the farm system? I can come up with only Zack Wheeler in 2011, and Adam Duvall in 2016 that are of any significance. And in reality the value of Wheeler is heavily reduced due to the injuries and Duvall is not difference between the Giants being good and what they are. Plus Duvall is not going to hit at AT&T like he did at GA.
Lucius Fox might, and might not, develop.Phil Bickford? Andrew Susac? Will Smith just might wind up more valuable than either one of them.
The Giants have gad a lot of success in the last decade so they aren’t very high which would account for some of the dearth of prospects. But, there just aren’t boatloads of players in the majors traded away by SF to validate your assertion.
Sanity has spoken. Systems get rated on impact players. The Giants probably don’t have any future-HOFers in their system. I think they have a lot of solid players. Duggar, Slater, and Arroyo all missed significant playing time this year. Duggar is the most interesting to me.
3 rings is nothing to cry about. The giants did what they had to do to won 3. Now they are paying for it, with vets and burdens on contracts. Alot of teams go thru this and don’t get any rings. So they did something right. I’m a cubs fan always have been, but I tip my hat to the giants for doing what they did.
Bingo
Most of the current Giants roster is about 30, or a little under. A lot of these players, if they returned to career averages, would return Giants to a winning season.
list of prospects dealt by SF? I know wheeler for beltran, but don’t keep up w SF
Outside of Nathan, and Liriano, they are nothing to get excited about.