This is the latest edition in MLBTR’s Three Needs series. Click to read entries on the Braves, Tigers, Reds, Pirates, Giants, Mets, Blue Jays, Athletics and White Sox.
It’s been another tough year on the field for the Phillies, and though the team looks to have added some very notable building blocks in their rebuild, there are still plenty of holes to fill. The Phils won’t be making a push to contend until 2019 at the earliest, so this winter will likely look much the same as last — adding veterans on short-term deals with an eye towards flipping those players at the trade deadline. Here are a few needs that will be at the top of the Phillies’ list this offseason…
1. Add starting pitching. Aaron Nola and Jerad Eickhoff are penciled into next year’s rotation, and Vince Velasquez will get first dibs on a spot if healthy. A variety of young arms (Nick Pivetta, Ben Lively, Jake Thompson, Zach Eflin) could be in the mix for the fifth starter’s job or as rotation depth, particularly given Velasquez’s multiple injury issues.
That leaves room for at least one or possibly two veteran starters to join the starting staff. The Phillies obviously won’t be shopping at the top of the free agent market, instead targeting mid-range starters that could be had on a one-year deal. Such pitchers could also be pursued in trades, akin to how the Phillies acquired Clay Buchholz from the Red Sox last offseason in the hopes that he would stay healthy and add rotation stability. Citizens Bank Park isn’t the most pitcher-friendly environment for a hurler looking to perhaps rebuild his value for a more lucrative contract in the 2018-19 offseason, though the Phillies can certainly offer innings and opportunity.
2. Use short-term payroll space on both young and old talent. The Phillies have less than $7MM on the books for 2018, so there’s plenty of room for creativity with so much payroll space to work with. Some of that money will be spent on veterans added in signings or trades, though for the latter, the Phillies have the flexibility to take on quite a bit of money.
For instance, GM Matt Klentak could approach a team burdened by a pricey contract and offer to take that deal off the rival club’s hands, as long as a promising young player was also included in the trade. This “buy a prospect” strategy would likely only be deployed in order to take on a starter or reliever’s bad contract since the Phillies are pretty set around the diamond in terms of players who have either earned everyday jobs or players the team wants to see more of — it would make little sense to block Nick Williams from regular duty by acquiring a pricey outfielder, for instance.
The exception to this would be if the Phils were to acquire a bigger-name talent who offered enough years of control that he could be part of the next contending Philadelphia team. Last summer, the Phillies expressed interest in the Marlins’ Christian Yelich (who is under contract through 2021 with a club option for 2022) and were also reportedly open to eating some of the Marlins’ other bad contracts in order to make a Yelich deal happen. If the Phillies were to make such a deal for Yelich or a similar player, you could see someone like Williams moved as part of the trade package.
The argument could be made that the Phillies could go after a big-ticket free agent this winter as sort of a harbinger of larger spending, akin to how the Nationals’ signing of Jayson Werth in the 2010-11 offseason served as an announcement that the team was looking ahead to being a contender in the near future. Since it has been largely rumored that the Phils will be players in the star-studded 2018-19 free agent class, I’d argue that any “coming attractions” signing Philadelphia might make will come next offseason rather than this winter, since there are still too many question marks for the team (or a free agent looking to win) to assume that a guaranteed contender in 2019.
3. Identify and extend some cornerstone players. Odubel Herrera was signed to a five-year extension last winter that will keep him in Philly until at least 2021, making him the first player clearly marked as a key part of the team’s future plans. Herrera was signed when he was a season away from becoming eligible for salary arbitration, which is the same situation that Nola and Aaron Altherr are in this winter.
The situations aren’t identical, of course, though there’s reason that signing an extension would make sense for Nola and Altherr at this junction. Altherr, who turns 27 in January and only rose to prominence as a prospect within the last couple of years, would likely to be open to his first big payday. Nola already made his first fortune in the sport when he collected a $3.3MM bonus as the seventh overall pick in the 2014 draft, though since he already went through a UCL/flexor scare last year, Nola might also be eager to lock down some guaranteed money early in his career.
Cesar Hernandez is arb-eligible for the first time last winter, and he has three more trips through the arbitration process coming due to his Super Two status. He’s due for a nice raise on his $2.55MM salary in 2017, and the Phillies could gain cost certainty on the second baseman via an extension. On the flip side, Hernandez could also be a potential trade chip, with the Phillies using Freddy Galvis and, eventually, prospect Scott Kingery at second. With Maikel Franco coming off a brutal year and top prospect J.P. Crawford coming off a pair of underwhelming minor league seasons, however, the Phillies might not want to lose Hernandez with that much uncertainty on the left side of the infield. The team isn’t in any rush to make a decision either way, and the best course could be to just give Hernandez his arb raise and then see how things develop with their other infielders.
JML
Yo
Williams has a high upside. The phillies outfield in a year or two will be one of the best. When Herrera is on he is the best hitter in the game – he had the longest hitting streak this year. What this guy wrote is a cookie cutter from the spring.
jbigz12
Altherr Williams and Herrera one of the best? Probably not. Nick Williams won’t sustain that kind of production if he doesn’t learn some plate discipline. We’ll see if altherr can put up these numbers again in a full season next year.
biasisrelitive
he’s never the best got in the game lol. I’m high on herrera but that’s absurd.
hawaiiphil
There is no way the Phils will just tread water this offseason and do the same kind of deals they did last yr. big deals coming this off season in prep for big signing after 2018
Phillies2017
A fourth need:
Move Velazquez to the bullpen
phils phanatic
agreed! I just think young starting pitching is so valuable that the FO is afraid to turn him into a bullpen arm because of the flashes he’s shown when he does have it all working for him. unfortunately injuries and inconsistency look to be his calling card as a starter. I do think he could be a dominating multi inning high leverage reliever though.
Caseys Partner
Fangraphs rates Aaron Nola one of the best trade assets in the game. The Phillies farm all of a sudden looks pretty mediocre. Good idea to use Nola to get a couple of Top 50 prospects in MLB for the farm before his elbow blows out.
Phillies Three Needs:
1) Loose every game left on this seasons schedule.
2) Get the first pick of the 2019 MLB Draft next season.
3) Find out the uniform sizes of Bryce Harper and Manny Machado and prepare for the December 2018 press conference to announce their signing with the Phillies
thegreatcerealfamine
What about Kershaw?
prich
Nola is ideal player for Phillies and I wouldn’t trade him for anything less than a big league star. No reason to get more prospects because chances are, they will never be as good as Nola. Also, the dude throws low 90s. I’d be more concerned with a guy like Syndergaard or Strasburg because of high velocity. Also, Nola will age real well because he knows how to pitch and relies on movement.
renegadescoach
caseyspartner, the more I read your stuff, the more convinced I am that you either hate the Phillies, or just have no idea what you are talking about. We need starting pitching more than anything else…so lets trade our only sure bet SP. Makes no sense!
Caseys Partner
Nola has already missed time with elbow problems and his delivery makes it look like his elbow is going to explode with each pitch he throws.
The Phil;lies can afford to sign real MLB pitching talents who – unlike young stud position players such as Harper and Machado – are frequently available.
Phillies2017
^^^^
Phillies2017
From one Phillies fan to another, please stop with the emotional comments. I get it, Philly sports can be mind-numbing- I’ve lived here my entire life- but seriously, MLB trade rumors comment section is intended to be a discussion board, and although it is frequently used for emotional rants and trolls, it is more enjoyable for everyone when arguments are organized, factually and statistically based and use less in terms of hyperbole. Also- proof reading and fact checking are golden- first of all, BA.com rated the Phillies’ farm system 3rd in the Major Leagues in an article published following the trade deadline, meaning that it isn’t mediocre, and you meant to say “Lose the rest of the games on this season’s schedule.”
Disclaimer: I’m not saying my comments are perfect by any means, I’m just tired of the argumentative, trolling and factually incorrect comments filling up the discussion boards when I know there are people on here who want to have legitimate, civil and informed baseball debates.
jleve618
Maybe I’ll be dead before they get back to the postseason then.
prich
There is no such thing as a contract for a starting pitcher that has worked out toward the back end of the deal.
Steve Skorupski
Wore out your welcome, Cheerios?
Matt St.
I’d like a new pitching coach first. If that doesn’t help then move him to the bullpen.
Tmandolfan
100% Agreed. Until McClure is gone it’s premature to draw any conclusions on all these young pitchers.
marckahn
He is really a closer disguised as a starter
Brixton
so..
Add Brandon McCarthy via trade
sign Tyler Chatwood
trade for Brad Ziegler, Edison Volquez(hes out for the year anyways) + a B level prospect in a salary dump
Give Aaron Nola the 5/35M + 2/26M in options
Trade Cesar Hernandez and Cam Rupp
DFA Tommy Joseph, other wastes of 40 man roster spots.
Boom. Possibly a .500 team
Coast1
The Phillies need to stop acquiring ridiculously overpriced veterans like McCarthy and Volquez. They’ve been doing it for two years and all they have to show for it are C level prospects. They did the Red Sox, Dodgers, and others favors by taking on those entire deals. Why not take the $33.5 million you want to pay three players who won’t help the Phillies win and spend it on players who will?
The 2014 Cubs were last place. They signed Lester to a huge deal and then brought in Hammel, Montero, Fowler, and Ross. That was a long term strategy that ended up paying off in 2015.
Chatwood is a decent idea. Acquire players like him who’ll be in Philadelphia long term instead of spending money for the sake of spending money. The Phillies probably won’t win anything in 2018 but then the Brewers weren’t supposed to win this year. They brought in Thames and Shaw to fill holes.
If the Phillies acquire players like McCarthy, who is certain to be injured, and Volquez, who stinks, they’ll be repeating their failed 2017 that saw the team win fewer games. If you’re trading Cesar Hernandez, a guy who’s had 6 WAR the last two years, maybe you can trade him for a pitcher who has had 6 WAR.
if they make moves for long term pieces instead maybe they have a big improvement in 2018. It’s time to start trying.
Brixton
Volquez is out for 2018, so its basically the Phillies pay his salary in exchange for 11M.
As for McCarthy, well, there is no reason to go spend huge money for an in-prime TOR arm because they’ll be on the downside of that contract when the Phils hit their full stride. I’d rather give another year for a vet starter such as McCarthy (A. because theres pretty much no risk. B. hes better than the other guys they tried).
Cesar would likely be dealt for prospects
Caseys Partner
I’d rather sign Sean O’Sullivan, let him start 35 times and post an ERA above 15.00 and get the first pick in the 2019 MLB Draft.
TLB2001
Probably had nothing to do with homegrown players like Kris Bryant, Anthony Rizzo et al coming into their own. Definitely go dump a bunch of money on free agent starters because that’s never backfired on anyone.
TLB2001
PS I know Rizzo wasn’t homegrown
Coast1
What had nothing to do with homegrown players like Bryant and Rizzo? Winning? Since I never mentioned winning why are you arguing against me saying that winning had nothing to do with other players.
The Cubs had a long term strategy to build a team and part of that was bringing in high priced good players.
The Phillies dumped $68 million on 1 year contracts for players of the same quality that the Padres spent less than $10 million on. At least the Padres got Matt Strahm for their placeholders.
The Phillies basically took all that money and lit it on fire. If they took $68 million and gave it to Lance Lynn over 4 years and Lynn never played for the team the Phillies would’ve gotten the same thing from Lynn as they got from the players they had this year.
The Phillies did the Dodgers and Red Sox big favors by taking on all of the contracts for Howie Kendrick and Clay Buchholz. They need to stop doing favors for teams.
The Phillies could win in 2018. They probably won’t but if you look at teams like Houston, Chicago, and the Orioles you see a huge jump in one season. They could definitely win in 2019 and beyond. Any free agent starter will help them more than Volquez or McCarthy will in 2018 and definitely more in 2019 and beyond.
Sure, at some point that free agent might not live up to the contract but that’s a risk the Phillies can take since they don’t have any expensive players currently on the team.
Caseys Partner
Max Scherzer destroyed the Nats and nothing is safer and more durable than young pitchers.
jleve618
Cubs only went last to third place…
Caseys Partner
The Cubs were in a very tough division. The Phillies are in the weakest division in MLB that is so perennially weak that it has come to be known as the N.L. Least.
jbigz12
Don’t think it’s that easy. They’re not close to a 500 team and with those trades you added maybe 5-6 wins total.
prich
No McCarthy, we need a 200 inning guy. I’d not mind Chatwood, but he may end up being good reliever. Also, no reason to lock up Nola, unless he really wants it. Marlins don’t have a B level prospect. Maybe Anderson to play 3rd base for us and just give Franco away. Cesar is a great fit for Angels, maybe they will give us Skaggs, Richards and Bedrosian, maybe add another reliever. That will give them pitching/bullpen depth. Also, Kingery is best fielder I have ever seen in minors so he will take over second.
jbigz12
Skaggs, Richard and bedrosian for what? Cesar Hernandez? No way. If you got two of those guys for Cesar Hernandez you should be through the roof. A healthy garret Richards is better than hernandez alone. Especially in today’s pitching world.
prich
Haha a healthy garret Richards!?!?! Good one! But in all seriousness Cesar is excellent leadoff man. He at over 3 war I think. I bet Skaggs, Bedrosian, and Richards haven’t gotten 2.
jbigz12
Richards has been worth 1.2 in his 5 starts. Richards is a front of the rotation arm. He’s devalued because of his injury risk but there’s no shot they’d package their best starter with 2 other solid players for a an above average 2B. M You saw the market for position players at the deadline. It’s not promising. 3 major league players never get traded for one anyway and certainly not for Hernandez. He’s a solid player but Forsythe brought back one pitching prospect. Skaggs and bedrosian would be a great return for Hernandez. If the phils were offered that, they should accept in a heart beat.
prich
TBH I don’t really see anything in Skaggs. He is not going to be a starter and Bedrosian is inconsistent. They are more like insurance for Richards. Also, trade deadline was not a move of controlled position players.
jbigz12
Doesn’t make any sense for the Angels to give you their best starter a set up man and another starter for a player to help them compete next year. Seems a little counterproductive to me. Their pen is deep enough to absorb the loss of Bedrosian and Skaggs would be the cost of doing business. Doesn’t make a lot of sense for the Angels to sell their best pitcher low and there’s no way they make themselves any better next year by having hernandez and not richards. Richards only has 1 year of control left so he doesn’t really make a ton of sense for the phils anyway. I think the market won’t be all that strong for MIF’s next year. If that offer isn’t the route the Phils want to go they might as well call up the Rays and try to get a prospect because theyre not going to get anymore MLB talent than that. It all depends on what Klentak is looking for. A controllable starter and a set up man and some lotto ticket from the Angels farm system or he wants to look at more prospects from the Rays or maybe the jays if their done with Travis. It’s hard to find teams with a glaring need at 2b that would be in a position to be competitive these next couple of years. Padres could use a 2B but i don’t know how much sense that makes for them.
Coast1
Tyler Skaggs can’t stay healthy and has had 1.3 bWAR/1.7 fWAR combined the last two seasons. That’s barely above replacement level and achievable by almost anyone the Phillies have. Skaggs has made 24 starts the last two years. Klentak would have to be a fool to think Skaggs gives him anything.
Over the last two years Hernandez is 8th in fWAR among 2B. I think the Phillies will trade the very valuable Scott Kingery to get good young pitching and keep Hernandez as their lead off hitter. Kingery has a higher ceiling but you have to give up something to get something.
Matt Klentak has held onto all his young players and hasn’t traded anyone away even if he has more players than he can play. He isn’t trading Cesar Hernandez for spare parts.
danlcat
me…id be looking,cuz they play dumb,hernandez,hererra and franco. Young,controllable starter and a reliever is fine,fair return. Id consider williams in a trade too,if we can get 2 “B” controllable starters. Jernandez,hererra while on top when u have kingery,galvis,crawford to play. If overwhelmed,id consider nola but imnot afraid of i njury as much as some. Franco…to me is dom brownish. Add joseph, ruff,mebbe a reliever somewhere and i think u can get those 2 young starters,with control,easily.
Caseys Partner
A .500 team.
That’s the worst outcome in MLB.
Either finish first in your division or finish with the worst record in the game and get that draft pool position and money. How far you finish away from those two outcomes defines your level of incompetence.
First to last, last to first. That’s the ticket to success in 2017 MLB.
prich
Yes because mid round first round picks aren’t good I guess? Teams can have good drafts without a first round pick. Now buying a .500 team rather than building one is bad. it all depends on situation of the team.
Caseys Partner
Not the Phillies. They need all the 1/1 picks they can get.
NotCanon
Crawford had a bad start to the MiLB season, but ended with respectable numbers (.243/.351/.405), and has been doing quite adequately in his appearances since his call-up (.240/.371/.360).
I know prospect raters were down on him mid-season, but since he returned from injury he’s really been a dramatically better player, and much more in line with what prior expectations had been for him.
Brixton
Very, very small sample size, but JPC’s defensive metrics say hes been elite at 3B, and underwhelming at SS
Coast1
He’s played 3 games at shortstop. No one should look at anything from that sample. He was an elite defensive shortstop in the minors and his defense at 3B shows that should continue at short in the majors.
Brixton
He wasn’t even close to elite at SS. In fact just about everyone soured him on there to the point he was considered probably average.
jbigz12
What the hell are you talking about? JP’s high prospect rankings had a whole lot to do with his defense at short. That’s absolute nonsense that they soured on him and he was considered “average” His bat the first half of this year was what dropped him way down in the rankings. Do you even believe the garbage you’re writing? Why in the world would a SS who has barely hit over 250 in the minors be considered a top prospect if he wasn’t a very good defensive SS?
Coast1
What are you talking about? Here’s Pipeline’s most recent scouting report: “Crawford also continues to display outstanding defensive skills at short. Even though he has just average speed, he has tremendous range, footwork and hands to go along with a plus arm.”
Crawford’s number one skill is his defense. His offensive skills have been called into question. His range is incredible. And he makes the throws. Go on Youtube and take a look. He’s played an unbelievable third base for a guy who never played there before. He’s an even better shortstop.
MooseBreathMints
LOL…….”Yelich” talk again? OH NO!!!!!!! Stop with the “Yelich” thoughts! The Phillies don’t need him…The Phillies don’t want him. The Phillies don’t need his contract!!!!!! NO MORE with Yelich and the Phillies!!!!!! lol…please no!
Caseys Partner
Yelich looks worse then what the Phillies have now.
prich
I’d disagree. I rather have Yelich over Odubel. On and off the field.
Caseys Partner
I’m sure you do disagree with me, about everything since you don’t understand the game.
prich
Yea I do, I understand that people are forced to watch it and some can’t bear the situation now.
Caseys Partner
Only people being paid to watch have to bear it and most people are bearing far worse in exchange for less compensation.
If you screw up the rebuild the next one will be right around the corner. If done right the next one could be decades away.
The Red Sox haven’t had a rebuild since WWII and maybe not before that either.
Phillies2017
All I’ve been hearing is how the Phillies are going to sign Harper or Machado and I just ask why.
Machado had a .317 on base percentage this season and Bryce Harper, while continuing to kill it in walks, has been very up and down with his average over his career ranging from .240-.330 and I can almost guarantee that it will lean towards the former as he ages.
Neither are worth $300 million and both seem like organization crippling contracts.
Second- Why in Gods name would the Phillies trade Nola when we could be legitimate competitors in 2019. Look at some of the production from our kids in 2017- yea, Crawford has hit .240, but his defense and plate discipline alone have cause BR to give him 0.9 WAR and fangraphs to give him 0.3 WAR over 16 games- which is crazy.
Bringing in a new manager and hitting coach who preach plate discipline would make a huge difference first of all, as Matt Stairs has brought with him a disturbing trend of falling walk rates. Any improvement in that department would help more than many realize.
Use 2018 as like the “final touches” year. Figure out the deal with Franco- give him one last shot considering he was at least decent in 2015 and 2016 and see what we have there, and assess it in July. Keep Cesar until then just as a back-up.
This offseason- I saw someone say it already, but grabbing McCarthy as a back-end stabilizer who we could deal at the deadline and signing Cobb to a 3 year/$55m deal or something to be a complimentary piece for when we’re ready to go, then flip Freddy considering his contract expires next year.
One final note- with the 1st pick next year- grab a safe college arm- high school bats are too risky- Moniak hasn’t been that good, Crawford literally took five years in the minors and I haven’t heard anything about Cornelius Randolph for a while. Get a guy who could be ready by mid-2019.
Assuming you bring in a new Hitting Coach, we’d be going into 18 with
Alfaro (C), Hoskins (1B), Cesar (2B), Crawford (SS), Franco (3B), Williams (LF), Dubs (CF), and Altherr (RF) with Nola, Eickhoff, Cobb, McCarthy and Pivetta/Thompson/Lively/Leiter and Vinny (closer) I’d feel pretty good about our chances to not suck next year and knowing we had Kingery, Kilyome and Sixto waiting in the wings- I’d feel great about our chances to compete in the near future.
Overall, with this in mind, the 2018 record would be based on tons of variables: How the kids do in their sophomore years, how McCarthy pitched, how Franco plays etc. but 2019 seems like CBP will be rocking again.
Caseys Partner
If that’s the program for the Phillies moving forward then shoot me while you have the chance before I Go Postal.
Phillies2017
Please enlighten me then- what do you want to do besides trading a young established pitcher who will help us when we’re good and signing Sean O’Sullivan.
Caseys Partner
Well, I’m not as smart as you. If I were then it would be obvious to me that Bryce Harper and Manny Machado stink out loud and aren’t worth much above the MLB minimum salary.
Life isn’t fair and I’m just not as cognitively gifted as you are.
willi
Harper and Machado are good Players but not Great! either are they worth what Yankees and Dodgers pay for them. Harper has been surrounded with a good hitters in front and Back and Machado .
Machado plays in a bigger Band Box than Philly’s Bank and Harper in an Injury waiting to happen !
I advice to Phillies stay way from these guys and go after close but cheaper Players !
danlcat
me…id be looking,cuz they play dumb,hernandez,hererra and franco. Young,controllable starter and a reliever is fine,fair return. Id consider williams in a trade too,if we can get 2 “B” controllable starters. Jernandez,hererra while on top when u have kingery,galvis,crawford to play. If overwhelmed,id consider nola but imnot afraid of i njury as much as some. Franco…to me is dom brownish. Add joseph, ruff,mebbe a reliever somewhere and i think u can get those 2 young starters,with control,easily.
skarbekb
The obvious thing to do is sign Cesar to a cost certain extension and then trade him and Dubes for some pitching. Both guys are good players but more important and valuable to other teams. And the Phillies have very good if not better options at those positions along with them being younger and to hit their primes when the team is ready not to win but contend. The teams big need is starting pitching – same as the other 29 teams. The Phillies will have whatever money they need going forward with really only Herrera under contract (who I would trade) for the next couple of years and the lucrative tv contract kicking in and Mr Middleton now in control from an ownership standpoint. The time is now to take down or give the Nationals a run for their money.