In one of the more puzzling waiver placements in recent memory, the Pirates opted to place right-hander Juan Nicasio — the team’s second-best reliever behind Felipe Rivero — on outright waivers earlier this week. The Pirates have drawn heavy criticism for the decision, which looked to be largely about saving roughly $600K through season’s end — or slightly more than the league minimum salary for one player over the course of a full season ($535K).
Recognizing the general befuddlement over the move, Pirates GM Neal Huntington issued a statement to the media explaining his rationale with the transaction. (Via Bill Brink of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.) Huntington revealed that a “playoff-caliber” club claimed Nicasio off revocable trade waivers earlier in the month but did so with the intention of blocking others from obtaining Nicasio rather than adding the right-hander to its own roster.
The Pirates had the option of dumping Nicasio’s contract on the team that claimed him, but that would’ve involved aiding a “direct competitor,” per Huntington. Rather, the Bucs placed Nicasio on outright waivers in hopes of getting him to the American League, as outright waiver priority is not league-specific like revocable trade waivers.
“We chose to take the chance to see if by placing Juan on outright waivers he would end up with a different playoff contender, preferably one in the American League,” the GM stated. The Pirates surely didn’t expect to see the Phillies, who possess MLB’s worst record, claim Nicasio. The right-hander is a free agent at season’s end, making it a surprise that any non-contending club would claim him. Huntington would go on to acknowledge the “minimal” cost savings the move created while also labeling the transaction a forward-looking move that would allow the team to evaluate longer-term pieces in high-leverage spots.
While the Pirates likely expected that the placement on outright waivers would allow Nicasio to fall to a team such as the Royals, Mariners or Rangers — each of whom would have claiming priority over NL contenders such as the Marlins and Cardinals — the move remains difficult to understand. For a club with a perennially low payroll, the effective dumping of their second-best reliever to a team with a worse record comes with significant public relations ramifications.
Even if the team’s intentions were primarily driven by a desire to get Nicasio onto a contending club, a frugal team such as the Pirates will be hard-pressed to sell the notion that the move was not motivated by cost-savings — especially just one year after having traded Francisco Liriano in a deal that was primarily viewed as a means of obtaining salary relief. Nicasio’s departure also seems unlikely to sit well with the remaining players in the clubhouse. Rivero, for instance, has already lamented the departure of his bullpen-mate on social media (Twitter link).
The decision looks all the more questionable when noting that the Bucs could have moved Nicasio prior to the non-waiver deadline as well. While the team surely hoped to contend for the NL Central at that point in the season — Pittsburgh was 5.5 games out of first place on July 31 — the Pirates still traded left-hander Tony Watson to the Dodgers just before the non-waiver deadline. And, a year ago, the Bucs flipped closer Mark Melancon to the Nationals in exchange for Rivero while still aiming to contend.
Observations such as these are always easy to make with the benefit of hindsight. It stands to reason that Pittsburgh was very likely reluctant to move two of its top three relievers at the deadline, when the postseason still seemed within reach. However, the end result of the process leaves the organization worse for the wear in more ways than one.
dodgerfan711
They are so cheap they just want to dump the 600k but Huntington had the odasity to prefer he goes to someone thats not “competing” with them. When you dump Nicasio for nothing you are giving up on the season. Dont pretend your still fighting for a spot
realgone2
audacity
jleve618
I think he meant opacity.
herecomethephillies2018
I think the word he was going for was “tenacity”.
Ully
WOW!
Ully
The Nicasio fiasco.
fbf923
Stupid move on so many levels. Just makes everyone on the team think management doesn’t value players and their contributions. Why not let him finish the year with his teammates? Or better yet, spend some money and resign him. Huntington deserves all the scrutiny he’s getting for this incredibly dumb move.
JimM
Thank God for logic. Q? Does dumping Nicasio for nada make Pirates a better team? A. NO.
Next question.
DD martin
The logic doesn’t make much sense other than trying to save what $100k +? Since the Sept 1st roster expansion was so close you could have kept him and still moved things around to allow others the high level experience. This doesn’t make you look cheap or upset any of your players on the roster.
Sorry but the move was not really well thought out.
DD martin
I meant $600k but even for that it just doesn’t make a lot of sense. It sends the wrong message to this years team and potential fa signings during the off season
Jeff Todd
More like $600K.
RiverCatsFilms
Didn’t know Mr.Krabs’ real name is Neal Huntington
hawaiiphil
Nice !! Very funny
willi
Typical Pirates Organization, Major League Baseball needs to Force these Owners to sell the Team to one of Trump” Drain the Swamp” Billionaire Buddies !
L.Wrong Hubbard
“And, a year ago, the Bucs flipped closer Mark Melancon to the Pirates…” <– You might want to change that to "the Nationals".
IronBallsMcGinty
And, a year ago, the Bucs flipped closer Mark Melancon to the Pirates…
They’re trading with themselves?
Dude, ya beat me to it.
dodgerfan711
They traded 2 months of their closer for 5 years of their new closer
HarveyD82
hey, still got Sean rod!….
realgone2
and as Braves fan I thank the Bucs
greatdaysport
Pittsburgh ownership has crapped on it’s fans for so long. You may say sell the team but if sold, the new owner may take the team to a more profitable city.
Then the fans are really toast.
bucsfan
I think the picture at the top of the article (on the app) says it all.
glassml
Exactly…same look after the brilliant Pirates exchange for Drew Hutchison. Liriano and two top Pirates prospects Harold Ramirez and Reese McGuire for a spare AAA pitcher.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Perfect example of the local media’s “mushroom management” of the fan base.
They were no longer top prospects. They are soon to be busts. They are nothing.
FG scouting report on McGuire: “He hasn’t developed offensively, has below-average bat speed and power, and pounds the ball into the ground, so his future is likely that of a glove-first backup.”
FG scouting report on Ramirez: “That offensive profile doesn’t play in left field without good defense, something I’m increasingly skeptical Ramirez will be able to provide. He hits, and therefore will likely find some sort of big-league role, likely as a bat-first bench outfielder.”
ONLY in Pittsburgh are these two still referred to as “top prospects” because the media here would rather anger the fans than inform them.
Liriano did more damage to the Pirates 2015 season than any other individual player. He did as much or more damage to the Jays 2016 season as any individual player. In his short time in Houston, he’s done as much damage to their season, etc. He is a $13 million grenade.
ONLY in Pittsburgh would getting rid of Liriano be treated as a bad thing because facts wouldn’t enter into it.
And while neither I (nor the Pirates) think much of Drew Hutchison (the main return was getting rid of Frankie Grenade, not Hutchison), he was a AAA all star and is one of the 6 Pirates pitchers in the top 20 in IL pitching stats.
It was a great trade.
jbigz12
Tough to call it a great trade when Toronto managed to flip him for teoscar Hernandez.
JimM
Great trade? Holy moly. Are u the guy that used to go on about the greatness of Lastings Milledge and how his career would dwarf that of N. Walker? Please say no. Good grief.
Billings 2
===but that would’ve involved aiding a “direct competitor,”===
Competitor? For bottom of the NL Central? Puhlease. This was all about $600k.
jimmyz
Reading between the lines here but I’m guessing the Cardinals, Brewers or Cubs probably put that claim in for Nicasio. As a Pirates fan (and generally as a baseball fan) the move seems dumb but realistically it’s no different than letting him sign with another team in the off-season anyway at this point. The thing that really screwed the Pirates was that Philly claimed him in my opinion. Had he gone a team like the Astros or Nationals this move would have been seen as letting a valuable, veteran player try to finish the season playing for a World Series contender and not going from a bad team to another bad team.
skip 2
Ya MLB gotta do something about these scum bag owners! I’d say Pirates and A’s have the worst owners in baseball!!!!
Weather Report of Atlanta
The Braves were sold at one point as a glorified tax write-off to Liberty; it’s a little lackluster to say the owner/s of your team sees you as paperwork. And…the Mets also have the Wilpons.
EasternLeagueVeteran
The Will-Pawns !!!
Caseys Partner
METS
Gwynning's Anal Lover
Questionable logic
julyn82001
Well, Pittsburgh is not alone… See for instance the A’s three years ago… The had the dream team, Céspedes, Moss, Donaldson et all… When Céspedes was traded Donaldson complained to ownership they didn’t want to spend on the Oakland team to stay competitive… After they collapsed to the royals in the playoff they dismantled the whole team… And Donaldson? Well, he was traded to Toronto on a trade that some fans still did not quite follow…
Regi Green
As a Phillie fan,i like that we got him for nothing. But at the same time,im a little concerned about him having a career year just as he’s about to hit free agency.
Caseys Partner
If present trends hold, the Phillies will have lost the first pick in the 2018 MLB draft by the conclusion of Sunday’s games and will instead be picking third.
Never has such an epic fail befallen a rebuilding team.
BigPhan
I don’t understand this from Phillies’ perspective. I just don’t get it.
JimM
Wouldnt mind Hurdle as gm and Bannister mgr.
Gwynning's Anal Lover
Neal Huntington is to the Pirates as…
Jerry is to Rick and Morty
Can you put Neal on waivers?
66TheNumberOfTheBest
No matter what the Pirates do, the narrative is always “Nutting is cheap, Huntingdon is stupid and the Pirates don’t really want to win.”
No matter what they do.
When they traded two months of Melancon for 5 years of Rivero, the narrative was “Nutting is cheap, Huntingdon is stupid and the Pirates don’t really want to win.” It was maybe the best trade in recent baseball history, but the narrative is never revised.
Liriano was literally losing games for them and wrecking the bullpen and they found a way to get rid of him by including two busts and THEN got Nova and resigned Freese spending the money saved on Liriano, but no…”Nutting is cheap, Huntingdon is stupid and the Pirates don’t really want to win.”
No matter what they do.
And that is why the Nicasio move was so very stupid. From a baseball perspective, who cares? But to save a mere $600,000 they played into the narrative so perfectly it almost seems like they were trying. As if it was a troll, “oh, you think we’re cheap, huh, watch what cheap REALLY looks like…”
At a minimum, saving this 600K will cost them $2 million in lost revenue. Minimum. If it impacts the ratings and hurts the next TV deal, it could cost them tens of millions.
You can argue that it’s a nothing baseball move that shouldn’t ignite this response and that teams have to what’s best from a baseball ops perspective and not let fans dictate the team’s moves, but…
If your customers feel like you have spit in their face, it doesn’t matter whether you actually have or not, you can’t ignore it. Giving fact to the narrative you know exists, right or wrong…makes no sense.
*FTR, the same people complaining now that they got nothing for him would have still complained that “Nutting is cheap, Huntingdon is stupid and they don’t really want to win” if they had traded Nicasio at the non-waiver deadline.
Caseys Partner
Hey look, Neil Huntington’s mom reads this site.
Gwynning's Anal Lover
That Mrs Huntington….how can she raise such a dumb kid?
JimM
You paint w too broad a brush. I gave thumbs up credit for the melancon deal. But, to be real, closers are by far the easiest dsal to make at deadline when (1) you r iut of contention, (2) your closer is going to walk fa, and (3) there are multiple suitors pining for the trade. To deny we got nothing for NWalker (our heart), should have dealt from strength (Marte, who is NOT a leader and who would have… note “would” have brought a controllable windfall (Carasco, Quintana, Giolito, Robles, name it…) instead of our soul (Cutch, who is a leader on and off field and the straw that stirs our buccos is, how do you phrase it? “the same (excused) narrative” that being… NH is the man and it isnt his fault. Always a failsafe excuse for NH. Always. All I know is we have regressed to a below .500 after being told we were a “loaded” organization. That means, we dont know how to deal from strength. Every deal NH makes is a “have to” deal. Im waiting for him to grow some and make a difference maker to push us to the next level. Reality is that ain’t gonna happen. A wimpish overmatched yes, yes gm is the ladt thing this club needs
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Three points….
1) Even at his best, Marte was never going to bring back a controllable TOR starter. Cespedes fetched two months of Lester and, later, Porcello when he was considered a 4th starter. They would not have gotten a Carrasco or Quintana for him alone.
2) There is a difference between a bad trade and a trade that does not work out. The Walker for Niese deal did not work out. But, despite what people in Pittsburgh believe, the Pirates were NEVER going to get a meaningful return for a 30+ pending FA with known back issues. If Niese had pitched here in 2016 as he did for the Mets in 2015 it would have been a fine enough trade. The ONLY reason this deal is still talked about is because Walker is from Pittsburgh.
3) The Pirates can’t go “all in” as so many demand and they have to hold onto their prospects as many lament because their fan base…
A) Doesn’t generate enough revenue to sign big ticket free agents. So, they NEED those prospects to play for them or as trade chips (Justin Wilson for Cervelli, as one example) to put out a competitive roster.
B) Will NOT support the team for a rebuild. Anything less than 98 wins is considered a betrayal (somehow).
The A’s were a small market team that went “all in” in 2014 as so many want the Pirates to do. They won’t contend until 2024.
Do you think Pirates fans would honestly support a half decade or longer rebuild in appreciation for a 2014 A’s type “all in” season?
JimM
Complete 100% disagree on gold-glove (with a gun), .300+avg, 40+sb, contract-controllable Marte not bringing a windfall. He would have brought way more than Adam Eaton with the right guy pulling the strings. Once again… all hail Neal Huntington. You keep drinking that koolaid and tell me you have hope we’ll ever be better than WC pretender with him controlliing ML personnel? These seasoned GMs laugh when he calls. And we could gave sweetened pot w Walker to Mets (like include Hansen) and get Matz instead of Neise. Instead we get gooseggs (again) in that trade. It’s bush league crap the way NH handles personnel. He has NEVER made a trade from strength to better this team. Never. Every trade he makes is a “have to” with one arm tied behind our back. All hail Huntington. Rah rah.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
I stopped reading after you said the Pirates could have gotten 2015 Steven Matz for Marte and Hansen.
Stop your Madden minion yinzer whining about Bad Back Neil.
Admit it, you were one of the tools who whined about the Melancon trade, right?
JimM
Honestly I was 100% in agreement w the Melancon to Nats deal. Like I said, the blind squirrel finding the nut. And not Marte-Hansen for Matz. Walker-Hansen, but that was simply a starting point. And under NO circumstance would I settle for Neise. And Hansen was still a top 10 buc prospect at the time and as you can see getting a legit look in chicago. Speed plays. Always will. Multi position players play. Always will. I was and am not a Marte fan. He jakes it but he had mass value. He was all over mlb highlights and was #2 mlb LFers (behind cespedes) 2017 and #3 2016 according to MLB shredder. Where have you been? Marte – had – mass appeal both with the league and Bucs. IDK maybe we could have gotten Matz for Walker-Harold Ramirez-Reese McGuire… Instead we GAVE AWAY WALKER. Answer this? You like pretending we can contend? Because I can tell you we have zero shot w this gm in the NL Central. It is nuts to think we do. And you need to seriously do some homework on Marte’s perceived market value. Granted, the ped suspension took a chunk out of that. Check out mlb tonight sometime and look at the statcast and shredder values. Get educated for crying out loud. Another thing… just as we never really gave Hansen a legit shot, what the heck are we doing with catcher Elias Diaz? He is a top 5 defender right now and Ive seen nothing that says he won’t hit, hit in the clutch, and with power. But he has to play. I argue these points. But, it’s pointless with a lover of mediocrity. One thing though. Huntington is now on very thin ice. I doubt seriously he is here post 17. National media is drilling him on Nicasio (and rightfully so). Once national media has u ur done. Cant be soon enuf for pirate lovers. Go Bucs!
JimM
Bad back Neil has done nothing but produce since he left. And we havent smelled .500 since.
U like Lastings Milledge? I’m betting yes.
JimM
All in? How about making a trade that using that bevy of talent we have? You actually just answered the question “why” you live this NH so much. You, and NH, don’t want to go all in. You honestly to God believe you can compete for a championship with a couple great players, a piecemeal pitching staff w a couple of rec projects? When you have a team that was WC playoffs 3 years in a row and you watch the great players near FA and you arent willing ro use ANY of that AA or AAA talent to compete for WS than you are mediocre, not a winner, and never will be. Nah… heck no we shouldnt go all in like the A’s (who are no worse now than we are)… we should continue to look back at 1979 as our last WS championship. OMG. All hail Huntington. Passed the mediocre juice. Ugh.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Would you and the fair weather yinzers support the team for a half decade rebuild after they go “all in” and fail like the A’s did? Yes or no?
We (including the Pirates) all know the answer.
Every single time the Penguins aren’t a Cup contender they go into bankruptcy and threaten to move because of the fair weather yinzers.
Every single time.
Even the Jagr years of the late 90’s, they still had the best player and made the playoffs every year and yinzers still wouldn’t support them and they went bankrupt.
Take away the beer and the Steelers would suffer the same fate.
PLAYTOWIN
Excellent points. The dumbest thing a small market team can do is “go all in”. It usually fails and the team stinks for years. Giving up your future for a shot at the playoffs is not wise strategy to maintain a competitive franchise. It is just as dumb to wait too long to rebuild. KC is the example this season. They held on to their best players for one last shot at a title. Many will leave as free agents at year end with no return to the Royals. The future will be bleak.
skip 2
Honestly I don’t buy into that small market bull$&@! And I hope fans don’t either! If you ask A’s teams or even Pirates teams of the 80’s or even 90’s have they ever heard of the term small market team I’d bet you couldn’t get one to say I heard of that! Let’s put it this way guys if Mark Cuban owned the A’s or Pirates do you think they would be where they are at now?
66TheNumberOfTheBest
The economics of sports didn’t change until the 90’s. Comparing the realities of small market teams now to then when the best players still made under a million a year is pointless.
And thanks for bringing up Mark Cuban. The ONLY way anyone with a brain would the run the Pirates any differently” would have to be a super rich guy who cares more about his ego than his money. Which is why yinzers CONSTANTLY beg for Mark Cuban to buy the team.
*Lemieux and Burkle are the only ones who might make back their money by spending as you wish but only because they could start their own cable channel instead of selling it to Root/ATT. But the Pens are locked in until 2028 so don’t hold your breath.
PS- I misread your comment, I thought you mentioned the A’s and Pirates of the 70’s and 80’s…the Bonds/Bonilla Pirates were absolutely broken up because it was a small market team. Those two contracts started the current era of free agency and big money.
JimM
And our players leave wo us even giving it a shot or getting anything in return. I dont want to pretend we are competing. Sone seem happy happy with that. Nuts.
Jgiun1
If you build it, they will come….like Steelers and Penguins have done for decades, building a dynasty right.
Front offices of both are top notch, not so much Pirates.
Top to bottom except PNC park grounds crew, everyone need gone!!!!!
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Those teams play in leagues with salary caps while the Pirates play in a league where the Dodgers have 3 times the payroll. The team with the highest payroll in each division leads each division in the NL.
And every single time the Penguins fail to have the best player in the world AND be a Cup contender (both) they talk about filing bankruptcy or moving the team.
The Steelers are immune from fair weather fandom by gambling and alcoholism.