The Giants have seemingly signaled their intentions to partake in the Shohei Otani sweepstakes. As Henry Schulman of the San Francisco Chronicle writes, GM Bobby Evans and AGM Jeremy Shelley each went to watch the 23-year-old Japanese star. While the Giants, like several other teams, would be limited to offering only a miserly $300K bonus to Otani, the organization does have a winning history and the city of San Francisco on offer. In any event, to the extent Otani does consider earnings, he’ll likely be more motivated by his second contract than his first — with increasing speculation focusing on the possibility that teams will discuss early-career extension scenarios in wooing the two-way player.
More from San Francisco:
- President of baseball operations Brian Sabean tells the Chronicle’s Bruce Jenkins that he began having some concerns with the team’s 2017 outlook in Spring Training. Needless to say, it became apparent rather early on in the season that things weren’t headed in a positive direction. Now, says the veteran executive, the club needs to “put a fresh look on things.” Among the needs: “to get younger, more athletic, and improve our defense.” That will be easier said than done, but Sabean says the organization will “have to be very open-minded and aggressive on the trade front” and will “have to be creative, and in some cases, bold.”
- Turning this general approach into specific moves figures to be the real challenge, of course. As Jenkins explains, the club has a variety of difficult player/contract situations on the roster. Interestingly, he reports that skipper Bruce Bochy “would welcome a new look” at first base. While Brandon Belt has never been a major source of home runs and has been limited by unfortunate concussion problems, he has also been a steadily productive batter — posting a 128 wRC+ in over three thousand career plate appearances. Indeed, just last winter the club awarded him with an extension that Jenkins now labels as “burdensome.” Attempting to upgrade, though, may well cost yet more and the likelihood of even achieving improved production seems rather dubious.
- If the Giants really decided they needed to move Belt, he’d draw plenty of interest due to his well-rounded offensive profile, though surely other organizations would be wary of the health concerns. Though he did just go on the 60-day DL — effectively ending his season — Belt was able to do some running on the field yesterday. He tells Janie McCauley of the Associated Press (Twitter link) that he has finally “turned a corner” and “just started feeling good,” which is certainly good to hear given the nature of his injury. Hopefully, Belt will be able to recover fully over the offseason.
- Sabean also chatted about some other topics of interest with Jenkins. He had kind words for Evans, calling him “driven and patient” while also acknowledging that his successor has overseen a difficult turn in the team’s competitiveness. And the veteran exec also touched upon the always interesting matter of weighing statistical analysis and scouting, crediting the importance of numbers while also offering a colorful explication of his belief in the importance of performing in key situations.
giantsfan8
Time to clean house in SF
gocincy
Do you mean the clubhouse or the front office?
Brixton
I wouldnt clean either yet. You cant predict every good player except Posey to underperform
arc89
Giants will have a tough time in the next few years. The big difference is the rest of their division got better except them. In years past they were the best team in a very bad division but now all 4 teams are better. Its rebuild time or just struggle to hope for a .500 record. So many old payers on the team you had to know they would have under performing years.
giantsfan 2
Yes, we are finally gonna dump pence, span, belt, and Sandoval.
EndinStealth
Funny that you added the Panda to that finally list!
joemoes
I mean Sandoval is free…
pustule bosey
yeah I don’t see why everyone freaks about sandoval, he costs nothing except a roster spot and in the end is a better bench piece than is in the system right now. Pence, Span etc. on the other hand are worrisome because they all have underperformed for a good stretch and there needs to be some creativity done in the outfield – the other thing is that the bullpen outside of dyson has been really shaky so going forward the FO needs to walk and chew gum, the thing that I fear is that they are going to look at the offense and try to fix that without addressing the bullpen – which with smith, melancon back and dyson could be good or not.but there needs to be hard calls on gearrin, strickland, osich, suarez in the spring. I am not as worried about the rotation as others seem to be – stratton seems like he has been coming around, blach has been usable and there are still a couple of guys behind them in the system-
giantsfan 2
He is taking playing time from younger players
SFrush90
Belt has been a good contributor to this team over the last several years. Not sure why anyone would be quick to dump him.
mlb1225
It’s going to be interesting to see who signs Ontani.
madmanTX
Not San Fran
AUsoldier82
San Fran can use an upgrade in the OF in the worst way. Maybe all three positions
mlb1225
Possible reunion with Melky Cabrera? They could look into Jarrod Dyson, not a big bat, but makes up that with his speed, fielding, and arm. They could spend big, and could invest in JD Martinez. I could see if they showed interest in Lorenzo Cain. It’s just me speculating though.
ABStract
I know nobody wants to admit it, but they have 3 good outfielders waiting in AAA: chris Shaw in LF(or 1B), Steven duggar in CF, and Austin slater in RF.
It would impress the hell out of me if SF had the guts to give the young guys they already have (and that are putting up good MiL #’s) a shot instead of trading for old guys like Cain or guys who won’t succeed in SF like moustakas at 3B (where Christian arroyo should get a long look).
They’re not MVP candidates, but they would greatly improve our speed, power and defense without trading long term assists like, say Panik(don’t even think about it!). A full rebuild isn’t necessary
arc89
All baseball experts wondered why the Giants went with panda this year? Obviously he is at the end of his career. Only reason i could see they had more panda hats to sell. If Arroyo is not their starting 3B next year the GM failed big time.
pustule bosey
they went with him for obvious reasons – he is a free project with a lot of upside for a position where everyone in the system is injured…… if experts don’t see that I don’t know why they deserve to be called experts.
dstuart
Why on earth would the my have to trade for a free agent? That is grounds for firing the GM lol
SFrush90
Shaw’s future isn’t in LF, unfortunately. It’s more at first base. But they could sacrifice defense for offense and put him out there.
pustule bosey
I would be surprised, there are a lot of bad feelings when it comes to melky which is sad because he is the kind of guy we could use. If he was just suspended for the PEDs it would be one thing but the whole website fiasco and denials just made a lot of ppl in the clubhouse really angry with him.
Jean Matrac
If the Giants want to get younger, more athletic, with better defense, as the article states, Melky is probably the last guy to consider.
mlb1225
I think they need to decide whether to dump Span, or Pence, and sign at least 1 big name outfield free agent.
jonnyblah
Dump them or not, they’ll still have to pay them.
mlb1225
They’ll have to at least pay part of one of their contracts, If they decide to trade one. I see Span the more likely candidate to be traded. Pence is such a fan favorite, that would probably come into discussion when looking into a trade.
wiggysf
Honestly, Slater looks like a keeper. Yes to dumping Pence and move Span over.
SimplyAmazin91
Could the Mets link up with SF on a Joe Panik trade? I’m sure they’d prefer to dump Span on the Mets however
lesterdnightfly
Might help if the Giants keep their players off dirt bikes. You can hurt your ass-ets if you crash.
arc89
I find it funny that the giants think they can trade Belt for good players. Belt is over paid and with how many 1B that are free agents this year his value is way down. Best hope for them is for Belt to have a good first half and dump him on a team in a big need for a 1B.
SFrush90
Why do you think Belt is overpaid? He’s been a 4 WAR three of the last four seasons and was on his way there, or at least would’ve come close, this season.
SundownDevil
Why would Otani consider signing with a team that’s limited to a $300k bonus in hopes that he signs an early-career extension? By all accounts, he seems like a great player, but what if he isn’t? What if he gets injured? The team isn’t going to extend him then, and he’d be out the guaranteed money he could have got from a team not limited with international spending, so he’ll go with the biggest guarantee.
arc89
Every team wants him but just because giants GM went to see him means nothing right now. Giants are just trying to get their fans up beat after a very bad year. I wouldn’t even pay attention to the reports on which team watches him play because it is over 20 right now.
tdaly
If all hecared about the guaranteed money he would wait 2 seasons and get 200-300m guaranteed. Having said that I don’t believe he will sign with a club that can only offer 300k.
tdaly
He cared
ABStract
Would be great for SF though. Can’t believe there hasn’t ever been a really great Asian player in the Bay. With so many people of Asian descent in the area, the guy would be huge
arc89
Kurt Suzuki says Hi
gotheem123
If you consider Kurt Suzuki a “really great player” you probably consider the A’s as the winners of the Donaldson trade
arc89
Depends on what you call a great Asian player? Ichiro would be about the only one you can call HOF player. Suzuki has been in the league for over 10 years and had been a solid player in those 10 years.
pustule bosey
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masanori_Murakami
ABStract
Don’t remember him on the Giants…
arc89
Most people do not know that racism prevented great asian players from playing in the MLB before the 60s. There was a great infielder that played for the SF seals that could have played in the MLB. Because of the hatred for asians because of WW2 he never had the opportunity to play. My wife’s uncle was a great lefty that once shut out a team of all star minor leguers during the late 40s. He was a legend among asian players at that time but had 0 opportunity to play for a major league team.
Jean Matrac
It’s been well documented, through Otani’s own words in fact, that money will not have any impact on which team he signs with. He’ll be looking at other factors like whether the team is a contender, the city itself, and how many opportunities he’ll have to hit. Other teams are limited to how big a bonus they can offer as well. Where money will play a role is the second contract, which will be a considerable amount, and will be discussed concurrently with the first contract. The biggest factor against SF is he may want to play for an AL team that will promise him the regular DH role.
Caseys Partner
” like several other teams, would be limited to offering only a miserly $300K bonus to Otani”
Apparently even that amount is not miserly enough for John Middleton to pursue a Japanese player.
The “42” Phillies
mlb1225
You act like The Phillies hate Asian players, but one of their outfielders is Asian
Brixton
Their opening day SP was asian, they had like 3 asians on the 2008 WS team. Its just our friend over here wants to make wild accusations. Im just glad he moved on him the Phillies hating hispanics, even though half their roster is latin american
Caseys Partner
“Their opening day SP was asian”
Jeremy Hellickson is not Asian.
” they had like 3 asians on the 2008 WS team”
Thank you sir, I had forgotten that the two players I referenced a few minutes ago were in the same season, So Taguchi and Tadahito Iguchi. They accumulated 110 plate appearances between them.
Caseys Partner
They took him on in exchange for the Orioles taking on the $17 million eyesore known as Jeremy Hellickson. He’ll be gone in a couple of weeks.
The Phillies had one Japanese outfielder signed by the Cardinals for one year and they also had one Japanese utility guy for a small part of one season from the White Sox.
This site tracks rumors professionally and the Phillies have turned up in exactly ZERO rumors for Asian players seeking to come to the USA.
joemoes
How long after otani is signed can his contract be re-worked? How long does he have to be signed for ?
Honestly idk who is agent is but it seems fishy he wants to come over now….
How many times has a Japanese player came over and faded after a year or two ? He’s making more with Japan then if he comes to majors too. What if he comes over and can’t adjust??? He probably will but seems more risk in coming now then reward. Or if he’s not as good if he waits the year or two he’s getting 150-250 million.
lesterdnightfly
Reading the numerous articles already posted on MLBTR will answer most of your questions, at least the ones that have answers. Just type his name in the “Search MLBTR” box at the top right of the home page, and presto…
Steve Skorupski
hey Les, your information provided just went way over most people’s heads.
STLShadows
They need to just trade everyone except Bumgardner and Posey. This team is just getting older by the minute and have a weak farm, they need to do something if they want to contend in the next 5 years
pustule bosey
bumgarner, posey and crawford… IF def. is pretty important to a pitching heavy team which is what the giants need to be based on park effect in order to be successful – AT&T is one of the only parks in the MLB that hasn’t been affected by the homerun explosion this year.
Caladan607
The Giants do not have to “clean house”. Only rash, short-sighted people “clean house” after a bad year. You tweak, upgrade and build around your core. The D’backs had a horrible year in 2016. They kept most of their roster, added a couple pieces and this year they are very good, good enough to make the postseason behind a flawed Dodgers team.
Belt can go as Posey (and Shaw) can take his spot. Hundley is ok behind the plate with Brown as backup. Dumping Span & Pence is difficult as they are ready to be put out to pasture (though Pence might be an ok bench player/5th OF).
The BP needs rebuilding. Otherwise, a few players turn things around and join Posey and Panik in having good years, and this team is very competitive. Trade Belt and a couple minor leaguers for RP (especially a LHP), and you might have a competitive team next year. With Beede joining Stratton and Blach to challenge Moore for the rotation, there are some good options after Bumgarner and Cueto (Samardzjia is just an innings eater who is lucky to win half his games). Will Smith will be back, Crick is looking good. Gearrin and Law have something to prove. Strickland can’t handle the pressure but might be ok in the middle innings as a bridge to Dyson and Melancon (IF Melancon returns to form, a big if). Ray Black, Coonrod and Slania might be options in the pen as well.
PLEASE do not let the Panda return! Eat Span’s salary and replace him with Gorky. The kid’s persistence is starting to pay off, despite my early doubts. Now if only Parker and Williamson can do the same and Slater proves to be as good as he started out before being injured.
puigpower
Stopped reading at “good enough to make the postseason over a flawed Dodger team”
Caladan607
While they have the best SP in baseball in Kershaw, their defense and and lack of team mojo is hurting them. There is a reason they’ve lost so many games recently. It’s because they are flawed. The postseason tends to expose flaws quickly and eliminates teams with said flaws.
dodgerfan711
Its funny to see giant fans thinking clutch hitting and defense is still a formula for winning. Dodgers defense is ranked 8th in baseball. That is just fine. Defense is the least of their problems
Caladan607
How many WS has Bochy won with clutch hitting, defense as well as pitching? How many have the Dodgers won since 1988?
All that money thrown at the team and they still can’t win in the postseason.
thegreatcerealfamine
Best SP 2017>Kluber/Sale
Patick L
+1 to Rob
ABStract
He was talking about the DBacks being good enough to make the postseason, not the Giants…and his comment was actually pretty reasonable
dodgerfan711
The Giants are not even in the same galaxy as the dodgers or dbacks right now. Giants have been absolutely mediocre ever since the all star break 2016. They are not a tweak away. Mark Melancon was a big tweak last offseason and he somehow made the giants worse. The dbacks will be better than sf as long as goldy is around which may just be 2018. The dodgers are superior in every single aspect of the game besides catcher. Even then the dodgers get really good production from their catchers. Not to mention their never ending pipeline of young talent while the giants best prospect is some guy who comes up and has an OPS. of .548
Jean Matrac
“Mark Melancon was a big tweak last offseason and he somehow made the giants worse.”
You could say the same thing about Greinke making the D’backs worse in 2016. It’s a big mistake to conclude that what you see over a relatively short span of time is who a team is. You’re assuming the 2017 Giants are exactly who they are and will not be any better. The core of players is not that much changed from the team that won the WS 3 years ago. I would agree the current Giant’s team is not good enough to contend for a WS now, but who they are is somewhere between what they were in 2104 and 2017.
Jean Matrac
Joe Panik is better than any guy the Dodgers put at 2B. And I’d call SS even. Seager is a much better hitter, but Crawford’s glove is far superior to Seager’s.
dodgerfan711
You have to be kidding me. Brandon Crawford is 7 years older than seager and nowhere near as good. You have to be insane to think crawford is even close to him. Even with defense included corey is far superior. Forsythe has a higher WAR than Panik
Jean Matrac
Oh yeah, WAR is the be all end all stat. And you realize of course that career WAR is a cumulative stat don’t you? Panik is 4 years younger. For this season Forsythe has a 1.6 WAR to Panik’s 1.5.
But’s let’s look at a range of stats Forsythe is slashing a .226/.356/..332. That’s some SLG pct. He has an 82 OPS+.. Panik is slashing .291/.351/.450. with an OPS+ of 107. Only a completely deluded and biased Dodger fan could claim Forsythe superior to Panik on the basis of 1/10 of a point in WAR.
Like a lot of uninformed baseball fans you undervalue defense. Go here:
fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=13624&posi…
And then here:
fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=5343&posit…
Scroll down and compare the “Advanced Fielding” stats. Clearly, Crawford is better, But then go to the “Inside Edge Fielding”. Since no player ever is able to make “impossible” plays, go to the next category, and compare how many of those plays Crawford makes to Seager. It’s clear that statistically Crawford is better with the glove, and while Seager runs, Crawford limits more.
davcamp
Gimme a break – you ask any GM who they would rather have and it’s Panik 100 times out of 100.
dodgerfan711
If you want to tell me panik is better than forsythe i can honestly respect that. But come on man brandon crawford over seager is the most ridiculous thing you can say. There are a lot of really good defensive SS out there. Its not uninformed to not value defense. As long as your not out there making a fool out of yourself defense is over rated. Seagers bat wins playoff games. Not defense.
jdgoat
Seager is soooo much better than Crawford. It’s not close
jonnyblah
I think you’re uninformed concerning the value of defense.
dodgerfan711
Defensive metrics dont make up for being behind in every single offensive category. Thats basically saying jayson heyward is better than stanton.
giantsfan 2
Seager is better than b-craw overall but Crawford has much better D
ttinsley1434
Wrong……just wrong.
fred-3
Lol, don’t get this bad stretch twisted.
Seager 23 years old
Bellinger 22 years old
Walker Buehler 23 years old
The Giants don’t have anyone this young and good. The Dodgers also have more players coming. It’s a good chance their teams in 2018 and 2019 will be better than this team.
Solaris601
Very interesting to hear management figures in the organization expressing a bit of regret over Belt’s extension last year, though indirectly. At the very least SF should seek a run-producing replacement at 1B even if it only results in moving Belt to the OF. With the market set to be flush again this winter with better 1B options (Santana, Hosmer, etc), it’s hard to justify staying with Belt.
Jean Matrac
Did you miss the part of the article that Belt had a 128 wRC+? That would make your assertion that Belt is not a run producer incorrect. And what makes you think Hosmer is an improvement over Belt? You’re probably looking at Belt’s low HR totals while totally forgetting that HRs by LHHs are severely limited at AT&T unless your name is Barry Bonds. Hosmer is a lefty just like Belt, and will not hit as well at AT&T. Compare their career OPS+ which, of course, is park-adjusted.
Belt: 126
Hosmer: 111
That’s a big difference. Belt would really do well in a place like Yankee Stadium. If Belt had come up with the Yanks, Giant’s fans would be wondering why the Giant’s don’t draft guys like him.
Solaris601
You’ll have to take that up with Bruce Bochy who stated he “would welcome a new look” at first base as stated in the article. Apparently the skipper missed the part about Belt’s 126 wRC+.
rmullig2
They should consider a deal with the Yankees to trade Belt for Ellsbury in the off season with the Yankees sending money to equal out the contracts. Ellsbury’s game is suited more to that ballpark than Yankee Stadium.
The Giants could then get a power bat for first on a cheap contract while upgrading their outfield production.
stymeedone
No one is taking Ellsbury’s contract.
Adios pelota!
What position does Otani play in the field? Would be an interesting scenario if he did sign… unfortunately I see a AL team signing him
wiggysf
I don’t care how bad his defense is, put him in LF and he’s immediately a defensive upgrade
biffpocoroba
It’s significant that Bochy would talk about 1B like that, because he’s all but telling Evans to either trade Belt or move him to LF next year. And I suspect that Bochy and Sabean are still tighter than Bochy and Evans are, so this may not be Bochy’s thinking alone. Given Sabean’s statements about upgrading their speed and defense, and the World Series years being over, I think both he and Bochy are all but signaling that Belt will be packaged this year and sent elsewhere for an upgrade in the OF or at 3B. Yes, they may suffer at 1B by losing Belt’s defense, but Bochy still said what he said.
From Bochy’s local comments about Stratton and Evans’ decision to exercise the option on Moore, I think we can assume that the rotation is already set for next year unless someone approaches them about Shark’s ability to eat innings. They’ll focus on getting a veteran piece for the BP.
The big takeaway for me from these comments is that Sabean and Bochy are getting the fans ready for a trade or two that closes the books on the World Series teams, while making a down payment on more changes next year when Pence and Span depart the roster.
Patick L
You’re reading waaaay to much into Bochy’s few worded response.
biffpocoroba
We’ll see.
stymeedone
I wonder if KC would like Belt as a replacement for Hosmer? In spite of the recent extension, he’s probably cheaper than Hosmer will cost.
timyanks
hopefully st louis will work a deal for belt
mark2015
There was an article about A few Giants criticizing Bochy and the writer speculated Osoch and Strickland..well with this article about Belt it seems rather likely that Belt is one of those people eh