As the Orioles wrap up a difficult campaign, there’s still some ongoing tension between executive VP of baseball ops Dan Duquette and skipper Buck Showalter, according to Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic (subscription req’d). But there’s no indication that “strained” communications will lead to any major changes, and Duquette suggests that he’s heading into the winter preparing once again to build a winning roster — with a particular focus on starting pitching.
In conversations with Rosenthal and also with Dan Connolly of BaltimoreBaseball.com, Duquette indicated that he’s optimistic about some young players that are reaching or nearing the majors. While filling out the rotation will be a “big challenge,” says Duquette, “it’s been done here before.”
We’ve heard previously that the O’s believe they need to add at least two new starters, and that certainly seems to be the case after a miserable 2017 performance. “There’s no major league team in the business that’s going to withstand three of their starters not pitching up to the level that they established for themselves,” said Duquette, referring to the struggles of Chris Tillman, Ubaldo Jimenez, and Wade Miley.
Of course, those veterans all had some concerns entering the season, and it’s fair to wonder whether and how Baltimore will find more reliable arms this time around. As Connolly notes, while Duquette expressed optimism about some prospects, it doesn’t seem any are waiting in the wings to take a rotation spot out of camp.
With a big commitment to Chris Davis on the books and several core player slated to depart after the 2018 season, the O’s will need to be cautious of long-term commitments in free agency. Unless owner Peter Angelos really opens up the pocketbook, adding veteran pitching through the open market may be challenge. (MLBTR’s Steve Adams recently broke down the starting pitching market by certain indicators.)
The trade market doesn’t necessarily seem an easier route. With the Orioles likely relying on position-player prospects to cover for the possible losses of Manny Machado, Adam Jones, and eventually Jonathan Schoop, they’ll be hesitant to deal from that stock. While Connolly hints that the club might consider trying to swap out Mark Trumbo for an expensive hurler from another organization, that may be easier said than done.
Despite the obvious difficulties, Duquette insists he can build a quality staff around Dylan Bundy and Kevin Gausman. Those two make for a good starting point, to be sure, though Bundy will be looking to sustain his performance after a big innings jump and Gausman struggled badly over the first half of 2017. Even assuming that pair is healthy and effective, it’ll be a tall order to put together a productive five-man unit (not to mention ensuring adequate depth behind it).
Solaris601
It’s gonna require some big time creativity on Duquette’s part to replace those 3 SPs with viable free agents who have better upside than their predecessors. Step one for the GM is to not even consider bringing Jimenez or Miley back. Only consider re-signing Tillman on a 1-year contract with an option, but no QO for sure. Not much quality available in the SP FA market once you get past maybe #4 or #5 in the rankings. Good luck, Dan – you’re gonna need it.
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
I would consider Vargas and Cashner
I also would love to see Otani in an Oriole uniform
Someone told me that is wishful thinking though, but hey it’s my wish!
virginiascopist
I thought Otani wanted to hit (DH) on the days he doesn’t pitch, so it seems to me the Orioles would have to trade Trumbo first. Whatever happened to Hunter Harvey?
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
I am sure something could be figured out with Trumbo
As for Harvey, he is fine.
back from Tommy John, electric stuff, but not many innings pitched at least this past summer.
vtadave
31 innings over the last three years. Be great if he could stay healthy next year, but….
outinleftfield
Harvey is finally healthy and pitched really well in 18.2 innings in 8 starts across 3 levels between rookie ball and Delmarva after returning. Great stats, but a long way from helping the O’s out. 2020 maybe?
jbigz12
Considering how we handled bundy and gausman I wouldn’t be surprised to see hunter harvey start 2019 or shortly after in the major league rotation if he’s healthy next year. We move them up quick. He’ll probably start next year in Delmarva but I wouldn’t be surprised if he hit AA around the all star break. Whether he should be brought up like that is a whole different story.
Paul Miller
The problem is how DD works in the off season is wait until the end for bargain signings like a Gallardo or Jiminez.
Otani will be long gone and most likely Vargas and Cashner too.
jbigz12
I don’t know how hot the market is going to be for cashner and Vargas. Cobb and Lynn will go fast but after that it’s a crapshoot for the other guys. I think we’ll be in on it earlier than usual this year. Angelos knows the teams running out of time.
DolphLundgren
DD needs a reality check. No pitcher likes to pitch in Camden Yards and no one wants to play for a team who disappoints year after year. We’ll maybe get a #4 and then be forced to ride the Norfolk Shuttle all year again. DD, good luck and God speed.
i.j.junior
disappoint year after year?First losing season in five years and the overall record in the AL since 2012 doesnt disappoint me.
jdgoat
Besides one year though, they’ve never actually been serious contenders.
mehs
2012, 2 wins less than the AL leader and were tied for best record a week earlier is not a serious contender? Series went 5 games in the ALDS. Right were not a contender at all.
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
As the Orioles wrap up a difficult campaign, there’s still some ongoing tension between executive VP of baseball ops Dan Duquette and skipper Buck Showalter,
What does Ken read what I write, lol
Anyway, I have been saying that there’s been a problem because DD has no real authority over Buck and this was clear (at least to me) when DD called up Austin Hays at the beginning of September and Show took forever to play him
He also played Santander sparingly
This also happened when DD traded for K Rod the one year,2013? Show didn’t use him the way I thought he was going to…. Anyway something should be done, this cannot go on as far as I am concerned. I really do think these two butt heads
jbigz12
Santander is completely redundant on our roster right now. Trumbo Mancini and Davis are already best fit for 1B/DH and its hard enough to make room for them. A4th 1B wasn’t going to find playing time. We’ll keep Santander on the roster for 45 days next year too but he doesn’t fit. It’d be ideal for us to get rid of trumbo this offseason. I’d do trumbo for an overpaid bounce back candidate pitcher. We need the arms and trumbo doesn’t bring much to the table. As for hays, he’s looked pretty good so far but I think he could spend some more time in the minors. Ideally Seth smith comes back on a 1 year deal to cover the large share of a platoon.
i.j.junior
Santander is an outfielder
jbigz12
He was a part time first baseman who is going to play outfield for the orioles but his best position is probably not the outfield. He won’t be a competent defender out there. He might be more of an outfielder than manicini but neither one is an outfielder.
Pops
No to Seth Smith. Hays is in RF now. Its been reported that the switchitting Santander has a beautiful swing that strongly resembles VMart’s. Santander is probably going to be mostly a DH, but a good one.
I look forward to watching the Orioles new upcoming outfielders Mullins Stewart and Hays, along with Mancini back at 1B and Santander at DH. That will be Duquette’s legacy. If he can just please proactively go get some good starting pitchers….
jbigz12
Hays isn’t lighting the world on fire and if we want to compete next year we need a real right fielder. Hays has to work on plate discipline. He plays on the right team to have bad plate discipline but he’s not there yet. He’s only 21 years old and he started the year in high A. You’re going classic orioles fan on those prospects. None of those guys are top prospects except hays. i don’t doubt hays will be the future in right field but it doesn’t have to be now. I don’t see any merit in calling a guy up who still has areas of his game to improve especially when he’s 21 years old. We’ve had some goodluck with guys who weren’t considered to be top prospects but if we hit on 1 of Mullins, Stewart, and Santander that’ll be great. We don’t get many top prospects to be excited about but Mullins Stewart and Santander wouldn’t be very high in other teams rankings.
Pops
The Orioles under Duquette have always needed starting pitching. And never has he gone out and gotten what is needed. He always skimps on quality…and tries to achieve instead deep depth quantity. Which never works. Its insanity to let this happen even one more year.
Furthermore…Duquette always is late on trading players when they are at their highest value.
One way to get good young starters is to trade a star veteran or 2. And instead of waiting around and signing a discount starter FA…maybe take 25mil/per year from the ending contracts for hardy and Ubaldo and throw it at a productive FA starter.
I hope DD makes good decisions this off-season…
costergaard2
I wouldn’t really pound DD. He built the ’03 Sox, he traded Heathcliff Slocum and got Derek Lowe and Varitek (what a trade!). Angelos needs to let DD be DD and make a run before they possibly lose Machado and Co…
Phillies2017
While I believe that they should begin rebuilding, going off of the “competing in 2018 idea”,
They can cross one off the list in doing a need based deal with ARI around Brach and Corbin (both expiring contracts in areas of depth for their respective organizations) and maybe throw some money at Chatwood on a 1-year deal. As a gb-reliant starter, he’ll do well in an infield manned by Machado, Schoop and Beckham.
Then use Miguel Castro as an “emergency blanket” however unless its needed utilize him in relief, he could lessen the blow to a Brach deal.
So with that in mind a rotation of Bundy, Gausmann, Corbin, Chatwood and then try to hit on a rebound vet for the 5. Barring any great luck i feel like thats the most likely course of action given the o’s stinginess.
aff10
Not sure I see Arizona doing that. I don’t love Corbin because of the lack of a real third pitch, but he’s been an above – average pitcher in 3 of 4 healthy MLB seasons. That’s more valuable than a good but not great reliever
beauvandertulip
Trumbo shields swap? Who says no ?
jbigz12
Probably Chicago. They only owe James shields 10mil. He has nothing left in tank but they’d more than double that commitment to trumbo. If I were the orioles GM I’d take it in a heartbeat. Worse case scenario you release shields after a bad spring training/couple of starts and you save 12 mil on a redundant unproductive player.
aff10
Yeah, I think Baltimore would have to toss in a substantial prospect to get Chicago to eat some of that money. Not Hall or Mountcastle, but maybe Akin? Given that the Orioles window arguably closes after next year, I can see the merits to picking up a back-end starter and some immediate financial flexibility for a decent but unspectacular prospect, and I could see the White Sox buying a young pitcher at this point
jbigz12
I don’t know about a significant prospect. I’d bet on trumbo putting up a respectable season before shields. If you consider shields a sunk cost trumbo’s deal is really only 2/13. Thats less than Brandon moss got. No significant prospect would ever go back it just depends on how Chicago views the 2. They’ll need some replacement major leaguers next year. They need hitters and pitchers so it all depends on what they want to do. If they deal avi Garcia, trumbo could at least cover part time in RF and DH. It’s not a big enough gap to throw in a prospect of any value. They could get one of our DFA’d triple A arms but that’s about it.
jbigz12
Didn’t pay attention to the decent back end starter part. Shields isn’t a decent back end starter. None of his peripherals/advanced metrics anything say he can be any more. Certainly not worth saving $13 mil and giving up Keegan akin or a similar prospect. I don’t think trumbo’s a terrible deal for 13 mil he’s just a complete non fit on the orioles right now. Saving 13 mil and getting a look at another questionable pitcher isn’t the worst thing in the world. Shields being any better than replacement level at this point is highly questionable at best.
mehs
There are 4 questionable starters hitting free agency from the Orioles this year. Tillman, Hellickson, Jimenez, Miley. Why would the Orioles trade for one and give up something for it?
Trevor 3
I have said this for years. A lot of the good players we have are from the trades that McPhail made. Duquette hasn’t really done much for this team.
stubby66
You know the Brewers have a couple of starters you can have for the young catcher like Jungmann, Guerra and probably throw in Cravy, and Wang get it done!!!
jbigz12
He signed Nelson Cruz but then he let him walk. He did just manage to get us tim Beckham though. The parra deal was bad to begin with, even worse now that Davies is actually better than expected. Wade Miley deal didn’t work out but I liked it at the time. Gallardo signing was another one that was bad from the beginning. We salvaged something by flipping him for smith though. The trumbo trade was good for a season, not so much on signing him back. Then you have Davis’ debacle. Hard to say if the good outweighs the bad. Macphail set him up with core guys that filled up most of the roster. But neither one had the pitching. We desperately needed a rotation pretty much the entire time duquette or macphail was running the show but I can’t put a lot of that on the GM. We won’t sign a pitcher long term so we’re stuck with the same type of basket of guys to choose from. Some work out, a lot don’t.
costergaard2
I think that Angelos torpedoed Cruz. Remember, Cruz was coming off a ‘roid suspension and DD got him in the bargain bin. He played like a champ at CY and parlayed that into a longer term deal. Angelos didn’t spend the $$$…
bencole
Wow… The statement that Ubaldo Jimenez didn’t pitch up to his capabilities is the kind of ignorance that’s wrong with many baseball GMs. Ubaldo Jimenez has been bad for years, and any suggestion that he was expected to pitch better than this is total ignorance. He should have been released long ago, and they should have spent the money to buy back their bad decision instead of pretending that this is a surprise at this point. I’m a Cubs fan, not an angry O’s fan, but what kind of idiot thinks this is an acceptable response??
jbigz12
It’s a typical front office line. He’s not going to go out there and say ubaldo has nothing left and was a terrible decision.
bencole
I realize that. And that’s why he looks like a fool. It’s his fault for not building a better rotation when everyone said it was bad despite it overachieving the last few years.
southi
I know that it is a completely different era, but the Orioles organization has gone a long way from the teams that had Jim Palmer, Scott MacGregor, Dennis Martinez and Mike Flanagan in their rotation. Baltimore used to be synonymous with great rotations now, well, now they’re something else entirely.
southi
LOL, I don’t mind the down vote, but I seriously don’t understand why. Was anything I said not truthful? Or was something I said controversial or derogatory? Or someone just doesn’t like the fact that the Orioles used to have stellar rotations?
costergaard2
Even recently, the Orioles in ’97 had Key, Mussina, and a few others. That was a solid team holding its own against some strong NYY teams…
mike156
I realize this is an older issue, but given how many Orioles medical exams turn up problems, I wonder whether agents might be reluctant to make the O’s a first choice. Flunk a medical exam, your dollars and years take a huge hit.
mehs
List the failed medical exams that turned out to be inaccurate?
SundownDevil
Does Felix Hernandez suck badly enough now that the Mariners would consider dumping his contract?
randomness lez
grow the bats and buy the arms……………or was it the other way around?
either way, we need some arms!
totoiv
With Jimenez, Tillman, and Miley off the roster the Os are saving around $40-45 million. Surely they can get a couple of starters for that amount. Even if you can’t get an “#1” starter, I’ll take two quality “#2” starters and bump Bundy and Gausman into the 3rd and 4th spots.
What about a little critique on Duquette’s ability to trade minor leagers who then go and become starters for other teams – Miranda, Bridwell for example. Now, I know there not top of the line starters, but they were doing a lot better than Jimenez and Miley..
jbigz12
Miranda and bridwell were doing better. Miranda has given up 37 hrs while pitching half his games at safeco. He’d have given up 50 at Camden yards. Bridwell is still doing alright though I’m skeptical how long that will last. The only pitcher we really gave up for nothing was Davies. He’s done very well. Pitching at Camden yards doesn’t do any of these fringe prospect pitchers any favors either. Would bridwell have an under 4 ERA at Camden yards, I highly doubt that. Ynoa has been fine so far and we got him for nothing so we’ll see.