After watching a last-place team make just one move prior to the non-waiver deadline, Giants fans felt plenty of frustration, but GM Bobby Evans spoke to Henry Schulman of the San Francisco Chronicle about the front office’s recognition that changes need to be made before the 2018 season commences. “How much we can accomplish between now and the beginning of 2018 remains to be seen,” said Evans. “…Some of that has to be us on alert for what opportunities exist. As we sit here today, we’ve got a lot of ideas where clubs see our guys.” The offseason is a likelier time for significant changes than the August waiver trade season, Evans indicated. Schulman writes that the Giants are lacking both power and defense in the outfield, though the presence of veterans Denard Span and Hunter Pence, both signed through 2018, adds another layer of complexity to the front office’s quest for improvement.
More from the division…
- The Dodgers had been experimenting with outfielder Brett Eibner as a pitcher, but his season will come to an end due to Tommy John surgery, tweets J.P. Hoornstra of the Southern California News Group. Eibner hadn’t actually gotten into a game in the minors, as he’s been dealing with soreness in his arm for awhile now. The Dodgers’ reported plan for Eibner wasn’t to convert him to a pitcher on a full-time basis but to use him as an outfielder and occasional reliever. Eibner pitched and played in the outfield in his college days but had been exclusively a position player since turning pro.
- While the Dodgers have drawn headlines for their enormous Major League payrolls, their commitment to international spending has played a huge role in their success as well, writes Bill Shaikin of the L.A. Times. As Shaikin notes, the Dodgers shipped out three prospects signed as international amateurs yesterday to acquire Tony Watson and Tony Cingrani, and their willingness to spend on that market has persistently left them with ammunition for trades. “The kind of scouting and player development infrastructure you have can pay off in terms of guys rising to the big leagues and impacting your team, or sometimes being able to make trades like this,” said GM Farhan Zaidi. “It’s certainly a credit to our scouting and player development staffs for giving us the players and prospect capital we needed to pull off these deals today.” The new hard cap on international spending will make that strategy more difficult, though the Dodgers have a history of finding creative ways to build up their farm by leveraging financial muscle.
- Padres general manager A.J. Preller chatted with Dennis Lin of the San Diego Union-Tribune about his lack of trades at the non-waiver deadline — specifically the decision to hold onto lefty Brad Hand and righty Jhoulys Chacin. Preller indicated that he simply didn’t receive an offer that he deemed to bring more value to the organization than Hand, acknowledging that while it’s possible he’ll incur an injury or decline, it’s also possible that Hand sustains or enhances his value with improved performance. His comments on Chacin were more interesting. “I know it’s easy for somebody to say, ‘Well, he’s a free agent at the end of the year. Just take anything,'” said Preller. “We’ve built our (farm) system up to the point where, just to take a non-prospect for the purpose of making a trade, we weren’t interested in doing that.” The Friars could move Chacin in a waiver deal, but they’ll also explore the possibility of signing him beyond 2017, Preller tells Lin.
Way to ruin Eibner for basically no reason.
Well, I wouldn’t say that, but it is kind of weird that a lot of these position players turned pitchers have gone down with tommy john; eiber, Dariel Alvarez and Jordan schaffer
FWIW Eibner was a pitcher before he was a position player.
Eibner willingly participated in this. He knew he was never going to be a MLB player unless he became more versatile. He rolled the dice, not the LAD.
Has Pitcher/ Fielder ever made anyone versatile and worth while? Dude could have learned how to play third base or something.
Nah, learning another position wouldn’t have solved much. Dude has a career 65 wRC+. He can’t hit, so he tried pitching. Unfortunately, it seems as though that’s not gonna work, but I give him credit for doing what he can to try to hang around
Hes left handed i think so that wouldnt work
He needed the surgery before he started throwing I thought? Dodgers loser Nation wrote it but they were probably wrong as usual.
2017 giants same as 2014 Phillies. Old. Bloated contracts they can’t or won’t move.
More like the 2011 or 2012 Phillies because the Giants are going to try to keep the band together for a few more years before accepting reality.
They remind me more of the 2016 Diamondbacks. Everyone thought they would challenge the Dodgers and Giants for the NL West due to adding Zack Greinke and Shelby Miller, but fell face flat into a last place 69-93 finish. While the offense was top 5 in the NL, their pitching was downright horrid due to down years from those 2 ace pitchers and an awful bullpen. Now, they’re competing for a wild card spot in the competitive NL West.
This is pretty much what the Giants are hoping. So many down years across the board from guys like Crawford, Panik, Pence, and downright ugly pitching from Moore, Samardziga, Cueto,Melancon, lack of bullpen depth, and they’re basically betting that they’ll be better next season. Once they offload Cain and Cueto’s contract (If he opts out), Im betting the Giants go for a marquee outfielder to make one last run.
Except that no one would call the Giants’ offense good.
How are they old? Their top four position players (by plate appearances) were between 26 and 30 (prime years) and none of the twenty pitchers to throw for them this year is over 32.
The top 3 position players on the 2008 Phillies were 34 to 36 years old. The top 7 position players were either 34 to 36 or named Domonic Smith or Ben Revere. And they had 6 pitchers over 32 years old.
The two teams have past success, bloated payroll, and underwhelming performance in common. Not similar rosters. Total “what have you done for me lately” attitude you see on here so often where a team or player has a bad year and it/he is completely washed up. Watch this team be top 3 in the NL all of next year and people stopping being surprised by it after like 3 weeks into the season.
Their top 4 position players were only the top 4 by plate appearances because of injuries to the position players that were projected to play those positions. Pence is 34, Span is 33.
3 of 5 in the starting rotation are on the downhill side of 30 and 3 or the top 5 in the pen.
It’s an old team.
Thank you! Agreed.
Padres were ridiculous for not trading Hand. Also, Alonso wasn’t even moved, backing my statement about how he’s really not doing anything special this year. Pretty bad when the Yankees don’t even want him and rather roll with what they got!
Why?
They were low balling the padres
Clubs 15-20 rated pieces? Seriously?
No.
Its Brad Hand not Andrew Miller.
So Padres should take 1/5 the deal Andrew Miller got?
Well, you know why he wasn’t traded then.
Expecting symmetry in two trade returns is lazy.
The fact that you think that Hand shouldn’t bring back something significant is ludicrous. He hasn’t given up a run in about 20 innings. He’s had one bad outing where he gave up 4 runs (the last time he gave up an ER) which has ‘inflated’ his ERA to 1.96. Otherwise he’d have a 1.33 ERA.
Miller (2017) 54 IP, 1.67 ERA, 2.10 FIP, 0.759 WHIP, 13.0 SO/9, 5.20 SO/W
Hand (2017) 55 IP, 1.96 ERA, 2.47 FIP, 0.945 WHIP, 11.8 SO/9, 5.14 SO/W
Am I missing something? Brad Hand is pretty much Andrew Miller, but younger and cheaper, and slightly less dominant I guess.
I expect similar/proprtional, not symmetry. Two very different things.
He might now be Andrew Miller, but he’s definitely better than some of the other reliefs that got traded a couple days ago. If and when he does get traded, he should bring back a good piece or two.
Kind of like saying Sale is a slightly less dominant LH pitcher than Kershaw. Both are heads and shoulders better than anyone else in their league.
Hand not being dealt was a product of Prellers high demands and teams seriously low offers.
If a team was offering their 15-20 best prospects, doubt is was more than 2, theyd be outside the Padres top 20 in most instances. Hand wasnt worth dealing for players outside your top 20. Padres have built a strong and deep farm. Quantity isnt something they need.
That being said. Hand is the closer. He can gain value if he pitches lights out in the second half as their closer. Given what Jansen, Robertson, Melancon, Chapman made on the open market his sub 6 mill arbitration salary next year is going to be very appealing if he proves he can be a dominant closer like a dominant setup man. So far so good as hes what amassed 5 saves and hasnt yielded a run since taking over for maurer?
Was it published somewhere that the offers for Hand were prospects in the 15-20 range? I’m finding that pretty hard to believe considering Justin Wilson, who is a worse LHP with less control netted a top 100 prospect headliner (mind you alongside an Avila rental).
I’m betting the offers were not that bad and Preller is just expecting something unrealistic (as was stated by other GMs). I think Hand could be a pretty solid closer in the 2nd half which will still make him very valuable in the offseason (if he doesnt get injured). But holding onto burning hot relievers is rarely the prudent thing to do. I guess time will tell.
Yes it was
Up until the deadline them and the nats were talking 15-20 on the nats is horrible
mlbtraderumors.com/2017/07/mlb-trade-rumors-zach-b…
15-20 range limited ceilings.
Fans are just mad their favorite teams gms were unable to get Hand for cheap. Most true Padres fans are fine with holding Hand until the offseason to trade him.
“What if he gets injured, regresses, etc.” People want to focus on the negative side of not trading him.
He’s not injured and has done well in the closer role. Most likely he wont get injured and will be a dominant closer like he was a dominant set up man. There arent many games left.
Well I agree that is not a fair offer for him. But it also makes you wonder if Preller’s “Top Top Prospect” posturing screwed him from the start, causing teams to go elsewhere. Heck the Dodgers even gave up a top 20 prospect for Tony Watson who is a rental and has been painful to watch this year.
Or fans of other teams are mad preller said “your prospects offers” arent good enough to get Hand. Cause you know, arm chair GMs overvalue prospects like crazy.
Either way non padres fans seem more upset about their team not landing Hand than Padres fans do not trading him.
The market was flooded with options this year. Plenty of good relief pitching was available. Pretty much everyone took a somewhat lesser deal then they should have gotten.
Making Hand the closer actually reduces his workload since he wouldnt be asked to pitch multiple innings anymore which reduces risk to injury. Also, not a guarantee he pitches as often being the closer. Which also reduces his workload and risk of injury.
People just want to complain for sake of complaining and I laugh when people are like BUT INJURY CONCERN. Seriously, how many closers this year have been significantly injured? Only one comes to mind is Zach Britton.
Everyone else seems to have performance issues before injury issues.
Hand being the closer reduces his injury risks and increases his value. It’s not hard to see why Preller held onto him given those two factors.
Injuries and/or a drop off in performance are possible but not expected. What is expected in the off-season that wasn’t an issue at the trade deadline is that there will be 20+ other relievers available for teams to get without spending prospect capital. If Hand was a top of the rotation starter or a position player, holding onto him would make more sense but most big time reliever trades happen at the deadline as teams are looking to shorten games down the stretch, not at winter meetings when teams can just throw money at bullpen problems.
There is that single thing from Crasnick. I agree with you that it is probably BS spin put out there as an excuse for why they weren’t going to trade him or is just a single report of early negotiations. As you mention, Wilson went for more, Watson went for a top 20, and AJ Ramos also went for 2.
Couple those returns with the fact that other gms said that his ask was just crazy (I don’t think a GM would call “more than 15-20 ranked prospects crazy) and I think we have a case of selective reporting of offers (like the Kimbrel for Goldschmidt ask that was reported). I just find it impossible to believe that teams only offered him less than Wilson and the same as AJ Ramos. Unless his ask was just so high that teams thought it so unreasonable as to just offer and equally unreasonable return, I’m not buying it. When something is that unbelievable, it takes more than a single report for me to believe that is all that he was offered until the end of the deadline.
didnt Padres wanted Verdugo for Hand? i think they have a high asking price, but if he pitches really good his price will go up, now is all in hand hands 😀
Like I said preller had a ridiculous high price and other gms had a ridiculously low price. Doubt neither budged.
Could also be a lot of teams didn’t trust Preller after last year’s fiasco. I personally don’t think hand is/or has ever been damaged goods. I do think it made a difference in how much teams offered though.
Completely ridiculous that you would even think to suggest that.
The padres farm is stacked
With quality pieces
Why would take a lesser piece? That trash will be taking a quality prospects spot
I would guess that is why Ken Rosenthal and Sherman said that 4 teams were negotiating to get Hand up to the last second?
It had nothing to do with teams trusting Preller. If they need a player and he has that player they are going to make the trade. Teams just didn’t offer enough for him. The Padres wanted a couple of things. They wanted MLB ready talent, and they wanted a player that could make an impact at a position of need. If they didn’t get those things it made more sense to keep Hand.
In the upcoming offseason Hand will be seen as a closer, not a setup man, and closers are worth both more money and more in trade. Also, there will potentially be 29 teams seriously bidding on him, not a handful as there are at the deadline. He will be more valuable and there will be more demand. That is a recipe for a better return, much like what happened with Kimbrel.
The Padres have such depth in the farm system that many in the top 5 on some teams would not make the top 20 in the Padres system. The O’s for a good example of that, but certainly not the only one.
The Padres Farm system is such that taking a non prospect only takes innings away from the true ones.
Padres don’t need prospects…..they need ones better than the ones they have and that’s real hard to find right now anywhere below AAA.
Plus they still need to field a team and are still trying to win games.
Hand could get them a non prospect next year at this time……so why trade him now?
the padres have been pretty good at choking at the deadline- I am not surprised
Chacin dealing tonight
San Diego is a good fit for him
If you chase two great rabbits you will catch neither.
Y’all see where I’m going with this?
Either make someone a pitcher or don’t.
I envy the Dodgers INT FA Signings. It’s a huge part of their game. Remember the last signing before new $2.9M INT signing rule spending restriction? Yasiel Puig 7 years $42M. Granted, he wasn’t as highly soughed out and things were different then in 2012, but still. I could go on and on. Only Alexander Guerrero comes to mind as a flame out under these new owners.
We’ve actually had some tough luck with Cuban signees. Alex Guerrero ($28M), Erisbel Arruebarrena ($25M), Pablo Millán Fernández $8M) have all been busts. That’s $61M right there.
Then you’ve got Hector Olivera ($62.5M) who was a bust but the Dodgers succesfully turned him into Alex Wood.
Then you’ve also got Yaisel Sierra ($30M), who failed as a starter but has been on the rebound since converting to a relief role. The Dodgers only have four years of control left on Sierra, so unless he transforms into a high-leverage reliever — and fast — there’s no chance they get a solid return on the investment.
I was about to say, I can think of more terrible international signings by the Dodgers than I can think of good ones.
Patience still — don’t forget Yadier Alvarez and there’s a lot more growing.
Padres invested heavily in international talent, draft, previous trades so makes sense not to take players not deemed better than what they brought to the farm.
Ths 15-20 prospects would cut into better prospects playing time. Preller made the right decision not trading Hand.
Depending on the farm most of anyone elses 15-20 would be outside the Padres top 20. Hand wasnt worth trading for guys who arent as good as what you currently have working through the minors.
Padres no longer need quantity and with another two high draft years in 2017 and 2018 they will add even more high talent deepening the farm as theyre easily going to be top 10 picks.
Your idea that a rebuilding team shouldn’t take solid prospects because they already have better ones doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. I don’t obviously know what the Padres were offered for Hand, so I’ll hold off on vilifying Preller despite his history of seemingly overplaying his hand on the trade market, but the strength of the existing farm system seems irrelevant- they should really be trying to move anybody who won’t be part of their next possible contender
So…who were these solid prospects you speak of? There were none offered. From what it sounds like, other teams’ top 15-20 prospects were offered. They don’t fall into our top 20-30. When you have about 30 mins, read this article and it will explain to you where the Padres are, and this was before the 2017 season (a couple players have graduated) and draft
fangraphs.com/blogs/prospect-reports-san-diego-pad…
Oh and Michel Baez isn’t even included….lol
I read all of those over the off-season actually, really love what Eric did there- ton of prospect coverage for free.
I don’t know what it is that they were offered for Hand (nor am I saying they had to force a deal that wasn’t there, but, given what the Tigers pulled for Wilson, I find it hard to believe no team was willing to put together at least a similar package for Hand), but the OP implied that, because the Padres likely have a stronger farm than whoever they’d have been dealing with, the prospects they acquire would be devalued. I tend to disagree with the idea that, just because those players would rank lower in the Padres’ system than in others, they aren’t really worth acquiring if they could help the rebuild
Prospects ranked 15-20 arent solid prospects, especially if you’re talking Angels Orioles Marlins etc. Solid would be in the 7-10 range.
If solid prospects were offered a deal might have been in negotiations. Nowhere did any one say a Hand deal was being discussed. Thus, doubt solid prospects were even on the table.
As I said, padres have enough depth. Unless you’re getting something better to add to the farm taking lesser prospects who the padres might not value as highly as what they currently have made no sense to trade Hand for. Between their 2017 draft next june and 2018 draft the following june almost guaranteed the padres find better prospects than most teams 15-20 thus making the Hand trade irrelevant.
Guys like Chacin and Stammen who are rentals. Sure trade them for whatever you can get even if it’s a guy whos our 50th. Something better than nothing with those 2.
Hand, same logic doesnt apply.
Most prospects that are 15-20 in other organizations would not make the Padres top 30. Very few in that range are MLB ready which is what the writers kept saying the Padres wanted. Before the deadline, the Padres #30 was hitting .324 in rookie ball at age 17. No reason to bring in guys that are not better than what you have starting on your farm and that don’t fit a need, for an elite LH reliever. Just does not make any sense from their perspective.
Most people don’t realize this, but the Padres have so many high-quality prospects that they had to field a second Rookie League TEAM. Not add a couple to the roster, an entire team of 34 players. They already had 36 on their other Arizona League team.
What most teams seemed to be offering was more guys that would be playing at that level. They already have more than any other team in baseball by a factor of 2, so why would they want more?
Now if the O’s had a guy like Hand to trade, I would have been screaming for them to trade him for 3-4 guys in that 10-20 range because we have exactly bupkis in the system.
Too bad about Eibner, dude was a stud with the Hogs in college. Hate to see him in Dodger blue though. Good luck to him
I don’t think Giants fans were that frustrated by the Giants lack of deadline moves, maybe more by its lack of pieces to make moves. It was obvious that Nuñez was leaving, but I don’t think any other major moves were expected given Cueto’s year how much money they would have to eat to move some of the aging guys.
The front office believes they can compete in 2018. Whether or not fans and pundits agree is obviously a different conversation, but the Giants weren’t going to go crazy and make a bad deal just to blow up the team.
I was happy to hear they were listening for offers, but there was no need to make a move if they think they’ll be competitive next season.
Also, there’s always the offseason, which might be better, as you’re not only selling to contenders.
Chacin will never clear waivers and holding onto him at the deadline was not a prerequisite for signing him beyond 2017. Hilariously stupid move not trading him.
He has some value to the team, and if no one was offering a prospect that had a plausible chance of being a useful piece, why trade him? Lamet and Perdomo don’t speak any English, and neither does Torrens, Cordoba, Pirela or Cordero – a veteran Spanish speaking SP has a ton of intangible value to this roster. That has more future value, in the form of player development, than the 26 year old stuck in Double A that i’m sure Preller was offered for him.
I would really like to bring him back next year, but he looks like he’s going to play his way into a multi-year deal somewhere – 2.77 ERA in 10 starts since June 1st, and went 7 scoreless tonight to open August. Some team is going to regret not shoring up the back of the rotation with him, but they didn’t want to pay the price. If the Padres have any advantage to re-sign him, it’s that he does seem to legitimately enjoy being here.
He has no value to the team. He’s about to leave in free agency is the reason to do that. Literally anything that can’t leave after the season has more future value to the team. I have already proven that there is no excuse for a non-contending team to not trade any and all pending free agents.
Trading him would not have changed the fact that he likes it here. He’d probably be happy that we’re letting him go finish out the season pitching for a team with a chance of winning something.
Again, why trade someone when you’re probably not going to get anything back that’s worthwhile? We are too deep of a system to get a bunch of scrubs. Keep developing what you have. If we were offered a top 15-20 for him, then maybe, but its quite possible we weren’t going to get that for him because earlier in the year he was brutal on the road.
‘Well, he’s a free agent at the end of the year. Just take anything,’” said Preller. “We’ve built our (farm) system up to the point where, just to take a non-prospect for the purpose of making a trade, we weren’t interested in doing that.”
AJ himself has already rebuffed your argument. He wasn’t getting decent talent in return, so he kept him, and I can agree with that, no reason to deal him just for a warm body.
Because they aren’t going to get anything back period if they don’t trade him. That’s why. The farm system can always be added to.
That’s not rebuffing my argument. You don’t have a finite amount of space in your farm system. It can always be added to. AJ isn’t going to get decent talent by keeping Chacin either.
Same thing as I said about Hand.
The Padres have so many high-quality prospects that they had to field a second Rookie League TEAM. Not add a couple to the roster, an entire team of 34 players. They already had 36 on their other Arizona League team.
What most teams seemed to be offering for Chacin was more guys that would have to be accommodated at that level, but were not as good as the guys already on those two teams. They already have more than any other team in baseball by a factor of 2, so why would they want more if that more was not substantially better?
Keeping Chacin does not hurt the Padres and they wouldn’t gain anything by trading him for more farm fodder. Farm fodder, players with no shot at ever making the majors, has no value at all in a system as stacked as theirs. Trading for players that are not as good as what you already have would have a negative impact by taking away playing time from better players.
So…why didn’t Preller just stop drafting after 12 rounds or so, since the later rounds are usually scrubs? It’s because, you never know how a prospect will develop. Which is why you take what you can for Chacin, and get some value.
We traded farm fodder for Ryan Ludwick seven years ago. What was that farm fodder’s name again? And what did he do 4 years later?
filbert10 gets it. People here have some delusional idea that Chacin has more value to the Padres than literally any minor leaguer. How? He’s not going to be part of the next good Padres team. That minor leaguer might.
You’re cherry picking. How about the ton of other fodders this team has traded (and the league) over the years? Why look at only the ones that didn’t pan out? if you deal a lot of them, some of them are bound to do good.
You downvote because you’re afraid of the truth
“The farm system can always be added to”
No if it’s only warm bodies and not real talent. Learn to read, Preller wasn’t offered any decent talent, that’s why no deal was done.
Besides, the Padres can use those innings, Perdomo and Lamet are young pitchers that need to take care of their innings, and Clayton has been horrible for the past 2 months. Wood is a complete mystery as well.
We traded a warm body for Ryan Ludwick seven years ago. What was that warm body’s name? And what did he do four years later?
Bring up some guy from AAA for those innings. Easy.
Enough with the cherry picking already. Saying we should trade Chacin for a warm body because it worked once 7 years ago is like saying we should claim every lefty pitcher because we claimed a good lefty once (Brad Hand).
And even in your example, Kluber wasn’t “just a warm body”, Ludwick was having a decent year and a decent prospect was offered for him, that’s why STL and CLE pulled the trigger.
Kluber wasn’t ranked in the Padres’ top 30 prospects and Preller will continue to claim struggling pitchers on waivers in the hopes that Balsley can help them turn their careers around. Hand, Yates, who’s next?
“Kluber, 24, has a 3.45 ERA in AA with 10.0 K/9 and 2.9 BB/9. The Padres selected the right-hander in the fourth round of the 2007 draft and have eased him through the minor leagues. In 122.2 innings this season, the 6’4″ starter has allowed just 121 hits. ” Kluber at the time of the trade.
Is that a warm body to you? If someone offered that for Chacin, sure, trade him, but that is no warm body, that’s a decent prospect.
No such offer was made, and Preller says he might as well keep the system intact and gives IP and AB’s to his guys, and that’s a thought I can understand and respect.
Still wasn’t ranked in the Padres’ top 30 prospects and Michael Kelly, who also isn’t a top 30 Padres prospect, has been even better than that this year in AA. We don’t know what was offered for Chacin but it can’t do much worse than “Just leaving after the season is over while the Padres get jack SQUAT!”
Time to learn dude
solarte could barely speak much English when he got to the padres
Look at him now
I see guy who should not be starting in MLB
Hand wasn’t traded because Padres think he’s great. He’s having a good season but isn’t Miller, Jansen , or Chapman. Padres fan told me Hand was going to L.A. and they would get Verdugo or Buehler LOL Dodgers bullpen has 4-5 guys with better numbers than Hand but they were all RHP. Now we have 2 good LHP and Darvish and we didn’t get rid of Verdugo, Buehler, or Alvarez. We won
Seriously, is it really that hard to check stuff before posting uneducated comments like this? Honestly, fangraphs makes it easy to check, but course a dodger fan screws that up like the dodgers do every year in the playoffs.
Hand- FIP 2.46, XFIP 2.72, 11.78 k/9, 2.29 bb/9,
Lefties- .170/.279/.322
Righties- .203/.253/.279
High Leverage Situations – .246/.310/.350
Men in Scoring- .170/.254/.250
Look at the Dodgers depth chart-
Pedro Baez- Worse k/9, worse bb/9, worse FIP and XFIP, worse against righties,
Better in High Leverage, against lefties and Men in Scoring situations. Advantage- Hand 4-3
Luis Avilan- Worse k/9 (not by much), worse bb/9, worse FIP and XFIP (not by much), worse against righties, worse in high leverage, worse in men in scoring. Better against lefties. Advantage Hand- 6-1
Josh Fields- Worse k/9, worse bb/9 (not by much), worse FIP and XFIP, worse against righties, worse against lefties, worse in men in scoring. Better in high leverage. Advantage- Hand 6-1
Brandon Morrow- Worse against k/9, worse against righties, worse in high leverage, better in bb/9, better in FIP, same XFIP, better against lefties. Advance- None, its a tie for 3.5 to 3.5 since they split peripherals.
I could go on, but I think you get the idea that you do not have 4-5 guys better than Hand in your pen. Using 7 ways to evaluate a reliever Hand lost to noone. If I look up Grant Dayton, Ross Stripling, Chris Hatcher, Tony Watson, Tony Cingriani almost guaranteed to have similar results where they aren’t as good as Hand.
Also, Tony Watson and Tony Cingriani arent good lol. The Dodgers overpaid for them big time especially since Watson is a rental and Cingriani has been terrible this year. Have you even looked at Cingriani he’s awful against righties and lefties.. But whatever helps you sleep at night man. Stronger chance they will induce nightmares for you than sweet dreams.
Apparently it’s equally as easy as picking the worst relievers in the Dodgers’ pen to compare to Hand in order to prove your point
Who did I leave out lol? Jansen? Hes your closer. Thought we were comparing set up guys.
losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/team/depth_chart/?c_id=…
Baez, watson, cingriani, morrow, avilan, fields, stripling, dayton- so who did I leave out thats somehow better than Hand?
Guess its equally easy to not use a depth chart to look at the dodgers pen as it is to not use fangraphs apparently.
That would require taking time to actually do research and comparisons. Why spend time on Fangraphs when uneducated blanket statements are much easier and less time consuming?
Sometimes the answer is so obvious that searching for data to back you up is a waste of time. To me arguing that Brad Hand wouldn’t be the 2nd best pitcher on the Dodgers bullpen is like arguing that 3 is a bigger number than 5.
sofa king we todd did comment
Hand would be the best pitcher not named Kenley Jensen in the Dodgers bullpen. it’s my belief that it will come back to bite them in the post season, not getting Hand or Wilson.
i’m torn on preller’s deadline approach with hand and chacin. i’m okay holding hand (lol) even with risk of injury or decline if the offers really weren’t there, though i think its likely his value will never be higher. that said, maybe an increased number of suitors in the offseason will help. chacin is more of a head-scratcher; i’m still fixated on preller losing out on fulmer for a rental (hindsight being 20/20).
I was thinking that they might have been able to package them together in a trade if teams kept lowballing for Hand alone, but that obviously never came to fruition. Still, if Hand keeps up his closing success, they could trade him in the offseason. As for Chacin, we’ll just have to wait and see what happens to him.
If Chacin keeps pitching like he has the last 2 months, Preller should try to resign him. He is the perfect back of the rotation starter and he would not be expensive. I am thinking 3 years $15-18 million would be enough to get a deal done. That is cheap for a guy that gives you 160-180 IP of sub 4.00 ERA.
i wouldn’t mind if the padres resigned him. i know it was a buyer’s market, but i think i would have preferred a team’s prospect in the 8-9 range depending on the system (feel that’s a fair return for a ~1 WAR pitcher ROS for ~600k).
Not even hindsight. At the time it was tough to imagine Fulmer having less value than an extra draft pick.
hindsight that fulmer would be as good as he’s been. i agree with you though, even as a prospect his value far exceeded any comp pick.
Perhaps another reason why Preller didn’t trade Chacin is that they are trying to bring a winning culture to these young players. If you haven’t noticed, the Padres are 34-27 since May 21st. They are playing much better. Actually better than a lot of us were hoping due to the perceived #tank. So, having a veteran latin starter and keeping your best reliever really isn’t a bad thing at this point. Keep moving in the right direction.
Stupid Indians. They should have traded Miller. Now he’s hurt! His value has been destroyed! lol