Yesterday’s last-minute Yu Darvish swap represented perhaps the most dramatic move of deadline day for a host of reasons. It not only broke after the deadline itself, but represented a major shift for the Rangers and left the Dodgers with another ace on a loaded pitching staff. While the trade doesn’t really impact the picture in the NL West — the Dodgers were seemingly running away with things without him — it could well change the complexion of the postseason.
The rights to employ Darvish over the next few months — but, mostly, to have him for the NLDS (and, the Dodgers hope, beyond) — came at a cost. Just how much that’ll sting is debatable and perhaps also largely remains to be seen. While the Dodgers held onto the prospects they evidently cherish most (Alex Verdugo and Walker Buehler), they gave up an intriguing, near-majors hitter in Willie Calhoun while also sacrificing two high-upside youngsters in A.J. Alexy and Brendon Davis.
It doesn’t make much sense to approach a deal like this by contemplating which side “won;” after all, they were both in very different positions. The Rangers essentially decided they did not need Darvish through the end of his contract, since a postseason run was unlikely. And the Dodgers took quite the opposite position, with a willingness to sacrifice pre-MLB talent to add the established hurler.
Instead, given the organizations’ varied approaches, it seems worth polling the MLBTR readership for grades on the deal from the perspective of each side. First, the Rangers: do you think the return will prove significant enough to justify the lessened possibility of a Wild Card, any (perhaps minimal) reduction in the potential to re-sign Darvish, and the draft compensation (a choice at the end of the second round) that would have accrued had Darvish declined a qualifying offer and signed elsewhere? (Link for app users.)
And for the Dodgers … was it worth giving up Calhoun and more for a starter on a team loaded with them? Ought these or other players have been used to acquire a better left-handed relievers than those (Tony Watson and Tony Cingrani) that were acquired? Etc. (Link for app users.)
I was looking forward to Walker (Buehler) Texas Ranger but the rangers got fleeced
Ranger didnt’ get fleeced, they wanted more but Calhouns bat plays, hes going to rake in Texas.
Plus 2 high upside guys. Good haul for a rental.
Rangers probably wont be able to resign Darvish next year as it seems that Japanese players believe strongly in loyalty as a collective mentality. Rangers didnt really pay him all that much + they traded him which shows that loyalty was not reciprocated.
Hopefully Yu can help bring the Dodgers home a championship and help with signing Otani in the offseason.
Disagree completely, Calhoun’s bat may play but that is not what the Rangers needed, they needed a top pitching spec in any Darvish deal and ultimately failed. Also, I think Rangers have a better shot at resigning Darvish, I’ve read numerous articles suggesting they have a great relationship with her m
Didnt Darvish say in his news conference that he wasnt going to resign with Texas?
I didn’t see press conference but I don’t see any reports of him stating that which I would think SOMEONE would have mentioned
This isn’t the Sonny Gray situation where they have another year and half to trade him. What if the Dodgers package was the best available? If the Rangers didn’t feel they could make the playoffs then it was a must to trade Darvish and those players may have been the best they can get.
It was reported that he was joking.
He laughed and said just kidding right after. Even so, I don’t think the rangers will be the highest bidder for him as a free agent unfortunately
He’s a rental with a 4 era what did you expect?
^^^Exactly right. Considering how close the trade was to the actual deadline, the Rangers had to decide whether to take the best offer (most likely he Dodgers) or take an extra prospect in the draft/resign Darvish.
Rangers made the better call. Period.
If you think the Rangers truly have a good shot at resigning him, then getting Calhoun, Alexy, and Davis is just icing on the cake. So I don’t understand what you’re getting at in you’re post. The return they got will most likely be far better than the comp pick they’d get if they stood pat.
So in the other spec of things
Rangers give yu a qo and let’s say he rejects it, and he signs else where. They would get one whatever that’s would be years away.
They traded him and got what they got. So this is a good win for them. I wouldn’t be half to surprised to find him back in Arlington in the offseason
Darvish and his Wife absolutely love Dallas it’s been mentioned a ton. hell Darvish wife even was making comments on Twitter celebrating before she learned he was traded. I hope rangers get Darvish back and make a run on Otani.
He was joking. He said afterwards that he would consider then if they made a fair offer and has expressed before the joy he’s had playing here
He said something along those lines, but no idea if that real or him being upset about the trade
High upside guys?? Brendan Davis cannot hit even in low a ball. At the absolute best he’s a fringe utility player who’s good on the bags. Alexy is probably the best get here, projected number 3 if all goes well most likely a bullpen piece.
I think it’s way to early to label Davis a “fringe utility player”. He’s 19 and has almost 1,000 PA. Most 19 yo are just getting started. Be patient dude. It’s no perfect science but he’s said to have a lot of room to grown into his 6’4 frame.
Still blocked by seager and he ain’t no seager at his best.
What does Seager have to do with anything when the conversation is about the future development/playing ability of Davis?
Plays same position as seager. Also he has steadily fallen down out top 30 year after year. Best case scenario dee Gordon.
It doesn’t matter if he’s blocked. I’m not arguing he SHOULDN’T have been traded. I’m not even arguing who he might become one day. I’m simply saying that calling him a “fringe utility” player at sage 19 in the Sally lge and he’s already had 1,000 PA is too soon to label him as that. He has held his own for his age/level.
Hey mindless how many players are like Seager. Your comment about Davis is mindless.
He plays the same position as Honus Wagner too, but it still has absolutely nothing to do with the conversation
And if the Dodgers traded Calhoun and a Dee Gordon plus another pitcher for 2 months of a pitcher pitching poorly, then they got ripped big time!
But Davis was more than 2 years younger than the MidWest League this year, yet he posted a 118 wRC+. In doing that he showed a 12.8 BB% and .158 ISO. Dee Gordon has a career 4.7 BB% and .073 ISO …so how is Davis comparable to Gordon, exactly? That well above average Great Lakes eye and power line from Davis actually looks a lot closer to, well ironically Seager, considering Seager posted a 10.8 BB% and .221 ISO at that level at that age
Not that I’m saying the kid will be a monster but he does have a huge frame that should add to his already above average power, he has a good eye at the plate as shown by the great walk rates and if he can cut down on the swing-and-misses he has the chance to develop into a nice corner infielder type (with a bat much closer to Alex Gordon than Dee Gordon, so you know)
And I just have to say, I’m not even sure why you are choosing to talk about it at all considering you seem to have no idea what you are actually talking about here.
Your an absolute moron. lol comparing him to seager means you don’t watch baseball. Davis is 20 years old and has never hit higher than .248 and has lingered in a ball for over a year and a half. Your acting like you know what your talking about but there’s a reason he was 28th out of our top 30 prospects because he’s not very good. Keep polishing a turd doesn’t make it gold. Kid is a good not great fielder but can’t hit even in the minors, projections mean nothing if you can hit the expectations. He’s steadily declined from 15th in our prospects list in 2015 to 24 in 2016 to 28 in 2017. Hmmm could be that his ceiling is shrinking? Obviously your overlooking that he’d have no where to play in the major baring that he’d actually have any value which at this point doesn’t seem likely. So the fact that they both seager and Davis play the same position means nothing? Seeing as they are on the same team? Seager averaged almost 100 points in the minors to go along with more power.
You seem to have extreme issues with reading comprehension and are obsessed with things which have *never* been part of the conversation
Davis is extremely young (-2.2years) for his 2017 level of play but was 18% better than average showing above average power and a walk rate that blew even Seagers Midwest League performance out of the water. (I didn’t compare the two, I merely said he’s closer to Seager than your laughable Dee Gordon inclusion) You can’t even recognize that eye and power statline is good tho, and instead continue to regurgitate those same old tired prospect rankings from years ago, with no context, when Davis was just out of HS, and prior to Davis seemingly breaking out this year.
And the conversation on the part of everyone has *never* been how Davis would fit into the Dodgers so your odd obsession with talking about Seager continues to merely make you look like a total fool – but it’s such a braindead argument anyway considering everyone knows *Davis will not stay at SS* as a large-built 6’5″ power hitter. He will be a 3B/1B/COF, making your obsession with bringing the SS depth chart/Seager into it all even more pitiful
As others have pointed out up and down this thread, “mindless” really is quite fitting for you.
How does loyalty play a factor and how is that a “Japanese” trait? Darvish was paid a handsome amount of money relative to him being an international FA. Texas paid $111 mil (including the posting fee) for a 6 year deal. That was the WINNING BID meaning they paid the most for the rights to negotiate with him. His contract is about to end and they traded him. Each side is free to negotiate another deal this off-season. There’s no slight and there’s nothing to be reciprocated.
Posting fee has nothing to do with what Darvish recieved. They paid roughly 10 million dollars a year for an ace, low balled. As far as mentality, loyalty in my opinion is important to Japanese players even from the perspective of their own loyalty to their Japanese teams before they are even posted. Just my take on it.
While I have no dobt that there was a great rapport with players fans and possibly the FO I dont think he resigns with the Rangers.
LA has been known for signing Japanese players (Maeda etc) being a closer commute to Japan for Yu, huge Japanese fanbase and community. Even dare I say NY Yankees have a great shot at signing him for the same reasons.
Not to mention great teams with deep farm systems that will have a chance at competing every year
And I’ll say it again. He wasn’t low-balled. You clearly have no idea how the system works.
Recent signees, Tanaka and Maeda signed under the new agreement that put a ceiling to how much the Japanese team would charge for the rights to their player at $20 mil. Thus, Tanaka and Maeda were able to negotiate more freely and got the big contracts they got.
Prior to the new agreement it was an open bidding system with no ceiling. Under that rule, Daisuke Matsuzaka and Darvish drew the highest posting bid at $51 mil. However, Darvish signed the largest contract (prior to the deals under the current agreement that Tanaka and Maeda benefited from). ever by a Japanese player at 6/$60 mil + the $51 that went to the Japanese team. Matsuzaka signed at 6/$52 mil. Let’s also understand that their is an inherent risk at signing Japanese players as it’s not the same as signing a mlb FA that has been in the majors for 6 years or more. Bottom line, you can’t say they low-balled him when he received the biggest contract ever in the history of Japanese players signing to an mlb team at that time.
I understand the changes in the posting system but LIKE I SAID less money in Darvish’s pocket
Average salary for Yu Darvish: 10 million/year 6 year $60 million + $51 million posting 2012
Average salary for Masahiro Tanaka: 22 million/year 7 yr $155million + 20 mill posting 2014
Even if the extra 31 million was used towards Darvish’s contract would still avg out to about 15 million a year which equals LOWBALLED
You still miss the point. Darvish signed his deal years before the current CBA, At the time you had to big for the right to even talk to the player. Their winning bid was $51 mil that went to the Japanese team Darvish was under contract with. They then negotiated a 6/$60 mil deal WHICH WAS THE BIGGEST CONTRACT EVER OFFERED TO A JAPANESE POSTEED PLAYER. So a) Darvish was unproven by mlb standards. b) He received the largest contract ever offered to a Japanese player. How then was he low-balled yet signed the biggest deal ever?
Comparing the two contracts is ridiculous. Totally different circumstances. Darvish had the opportunity to decline the offer and he didn’t.
Agree: he wasn’t lowballed at all. He was 25 when they signed him out of Japan! Keeping in mind the posting fee doesn’t force the player to sign, it only guarantees a team exclusive negotiating, one does not highball the posting fee only to lowball the player himself.
I agree that the Rangers didn’t get fleeced. I thought they played it perfectly. They held out for weeks that they wouldn’t move him unless they got a top prospect in return. If somebody met that lofty proposal, great. But nobody did, so at the last minute they circled back to the Dodgers and still got a much larger return value than the compensatory pick would’ve given them had he walked.
Calhoun is a bum that cannot field. David won’t ever play above double A. Alexy is nothing more than a bp pitcher.
You should become a scout, you clearly know what you’re talking about and can project players careers to a T
Texas scored for a rental! Sad that some people are clueless about baseball & how it operates! Maybe they shouldn’t be posting when clearly they are………..âś…
Calhoun has solid numbers in the minors…… I think at best he’s a poor man’s version of Robinson Cano in MLB. Also, don’t they already have Odor at 2B? I think Calhoun can play the OF too, but OFers are a dime a dozen….. you’d think a top of the rotation arm if not Ace in Darvish would’ve garnered more of a player. As for the other two guys they got….. the pitcher they got is super young and just started his professional career. He’s only in A ball but his walk rate is already alarming. As for Davis…….. I really fail to see what’s to like. He’s just a random throw-in minor leaguer to get a deal done by adding more personnel to the deal. He’s got no power, no speed, hits .240 and has an OBP around .315-.320……… in the MINORS!!! Low A ball at that. IMO this is a fleecing by the Dodgers. After the Darvish and Gray deals I’m not liking the deal Hoyer and Theo did with my Cubs in getting Quintana. Getting Quintana seems like a MASSIVE overpay now.
Man Gagne, you do your teams fan base a service by staying delusional.
Darvish and the Rangers had a good working relationship. He’s been getting torched. I’m curious to see how he performs in the postseason though. Kershaw has a history and Yu is unproven so far (1 horrible start, one good start)
Can’t wait to see LA build the second murderers row, the fans think is gonna happen.
This all the way….I voted an F for the trade on the Rangers side. They absolutely needed Buehler or Alvarez in this deal and got neither, an absolute fail
For two months of a struggling rental? No. The Rangers did fine.
No they didnt
Lol. “No. I’m right, you’re wrong.” Can’t argue with that now, can ya?
Seems like a high price for a rental. Especially considering the Yankees gave up injured second tier prospects for Gray
I agree that the Rangers made out well in the deal. They got well worth 2 months of Darvish worth here!
With minutes counting down before the deadline and absolutely NOBODY approaching the value you’re demanding, I feel it’s safe to say that they weren’t going to get it.
Maybe if the Rangers still had plenty plenty of time, you could say they had to get Buerhler or Alvarez, but they clearly weren’t. Any value they could get that’s above a compensation pick, then, is a win.
Do the stories about Mateo, Kaprielian and Fowler not being as good as the Yankees thought come out today or tomorrow?
Do the stories of the Red Sox chicken and beer collapse 2.0 come out today or tomorrow?
I’m pretty sure every sensible Yankees fan will say we gave up 3 good prospects but 2 coming off major injuries. Mateo is blocked with Didi playing so well, Castro being an above average hitter and still young, and Torres lurking. Fowler isn’t playing before Judge and Frazier looks great. Hicks has finally broken out and we still have Gardner and Ellsbury. Florial is by most accounts as good or better than Fowler who will probably be fine but we will see. Kaprielian is the one that hurts to lose most. He seems like he could lead a rotation soon. But Yankees do have a deep system and if Gray can remain healthy he’s a borderline ace.
Not gonna lie, I actually like what the Yanks have been doing the last two seasons. Props to Cashman, great in trading possible rule 5 guys, deeping thier SP for this year and into the future, adding to a dominant BP, still have a deep farm system despite trading away a couple of pieces and trying to get the luxury tax under control while positioning themselves up for Harper down the line.
Hate to say it, but the evil empire is back and will be for the foreseeable future.
FYI I live in NYC and deeply hate the Yankees but I do respect what they are doing as a baseball fan. I have the same respect for what the Cubs are doing, they have a young core and even though they have traded the farm to defend their championship they are a force and playing well now. Time will tell if their depth is good enough to withstand injuries etc but they have shown that they draft and replenish their system fast in prospects ever since Epstein/Hoyer have come aboard.
Fowler actually shot up this year and became a bit of a surprise. Kap has had injury issues in the past,Mateo has fallen out of favor somewhat. This trade is just what the Yanks needed and they kept Sheffield and Adams.
It’s hard not to like what the Yankees did yesterday. They received 2.5 cheap years of a good, young SP for 3 prospects, none of which were their top prospects at their respective positions and all 3 coming with fairly large question marks (2 injury, 1 attitude).
That being said, I also like Oakland’s return. I like the potential that all 3 prospects have and think they could all be MLB contributors if they’re able to overcome their injuries and poor attitude.
I predicted two 55 FV and a 45 FV return for Gray and he received a 55 and two 50 grade prospects, so it was a reasonably expected return, regardless of what A’s fans were claiming beforehand.
No brainer, the Dodgers needed an ace RHP, they got it. This could also quite possibly help Kenya Meida both being from Japan.
Though I don’t think the Rangers got the best return, all they would have received had Darvish signed elsewhere this offseason was a 2nd round pick (new CBA rules). I think Callhoun’s value is at least a 2nd round pick, and the other 2 prospects will hopefully add value down the road. I think the Dodgers had to get Darvish and the Rangers got what they could considering they won’t make the postseason, and if they did wouldn’t be able to compete with other AL teams
Exactly
The Darvish trade turned the Dodgers from “favorites” to FAVORITES. That’s an “A”.
Just wait until that rotation implodes, either by returning to reality and pitching like we’re used to seeing them pitch…… or they’ll succumb to injuries…. like they always do. Even Kershaw now I think has earned the label “injury prone.” No one in that rotation is exactly a model of health. And NO WAY is Alex Wood as good as he has been so far this year. Waiting for the wheels to fall off that wagon soon.
It would be interesting to see which package, that which brought in Darvish or the one that netted Gray ends up being the best in terms of mlb Win shares?
I think the Yankees trade was a fair trade for both teams. Even though Kaprelian and Fowler are hurt, they were top prospects in a deep system. But I would have asked for more from the Yankees, Mateo, Florial and Chance would have been my stance with the evil empire. They were desperate for pitching and Gray was the best cost controlled pitcher out there.
Still a good haul for both teams I think
Not so much. Gray is controllable, Darvish is rental. They are going to net different and not comparable returns on that basis alone.
What they net isn’t the same as “who turns out better”. Right now, we only have minor league performance and projectability to judge any of them. There’s nothing to say that Brandon Davis might not being an all-star caliber mlb player and the other fan out in AAA. So my question was a bit rhetorical as it can’t be answered until we look back 2, 3 or 4 years from now.
I get it but even so the controllable player is going to net more and probably better chances for the receiving team to hit it big.
Like I said, I would love to see how it actually turns out.
Sometimes you need to give prospects if you want a championship
On the Dodgers end of the deal, the question was kind of spun, from one about the value of adding Darvish to unrelated questions about Watson and Cingrani. Those were really separate trading exercises.
I didnt like the Watson and Cingrani signings, really wanted Britton.
Just from our previous struggles in the postseason from our BP, I think Britton would have gotten us over the hump.
Watson is this years Joe Blanton, I still cant believe the FO’s mentality of going cheap when it comes to relievers. From when this FO took over, with some of the bad reliever contracts that we had seemingly turned them away from ever spending or using prospect capital in getting us a bridge for Jansen. Just dont get it?
Getting Yu helps with not overextending Kershaw, we needed a stud lefty to not overextend Jansen. Fail
Yeah, the Watson and Cingrani trades were kind of underwhelming, but as I said, I don’t know why they are even in this discussion since those trades were not connected in any way with Darvish. The implication is what they gave up for Darvish hamstrung them on going after Wilson or Britton, but with the depth the Dodgers have, I don’t see that as being the case at all.
Great screen name, btw!
Cingrani is the most Friedman acquisition in history.
A definite project who MIGHT be useful now
I wasn’t sold on Britten, even though It would have been awesome! Baltimore was selling very high on him, & Cleveland thought they might have a deal! Crazy owner! Much to high for questionable health & big contracts! Baltimore made a big mistake not trading him!
Excellent trade on the Dodgers part. They traded a guy who’s sole purpose in life is to be a DH. Can’t play the field at all. One time a scout asked him what position he plays and he said, “The 3 hole”. Good for the Rangers, but Dodgers are an NL team without room for a pure hitter who can’t field anywhere.
As for Tony Watson and Cingrani, who cares if they are even on the post-season roster? Let them throw some useless innings in August/September. I would much rather go into the post season with Brandon Morrow having thrown 50 innings over the course of the year than 70.
For those trades to be worthwhile, at least one of these situational lefties has to be carried onto the postseason roster. If they were only after leftie cannon fodder they could have played Avilan, Dayton and Paredes.
I dont care about useless innings in Aug/Sept, Im talking about a game 5 or 7 in the eigth inning of the playoffs!! I get the FO’s approach when it comes to analytics and its importance in a 162 game season. But the playoffs are a different animal.
Screw all the “Exit Velocity” “BABIP” mumbo jumbo, I want a stud to shut it down and get us to Jansen!! While I think Morrow, Baez are fine for say the 7th inning why cant we ever invest in one more shut down guy?! Bullpens in the playoffs are the most important group. Just look at the great teams that have won it all and the competition from the playoff teams, they work the counts and fight off great pitches in the 7th, 8th and 9th innings.
Well we did originally trade for Champman last year but recinded to his DV episode, we still went the way of the Joe Blantons and he cost us last year. Watson/Cingrani is not going to be enough and I know the FO is trusting what we have right now.
Our playoff rotation is something that I am very comfortable with now but the BP is not good enough from my perspective
I was really down on Baez for the last two years but I think he’s come a long a lot this year. I’m feeling like he and Morrow can handle the 8th with Stripling and Stewart handling middle duties. The weak link of a situational lefty might be in better shape now (time will tell). I still cover my eyes whenever they trot Fields or Avilan out in a close game though.
Im hoping Watson/Cingrani can at least contain Harper, Rizzo etc come playoff time. Agree with you on Baez/Morrow in the 8th
Fields/Avilan/Dayton are not to be trusted come playoff time.
The Dbacks really worry me with the right handed hitting JD Martinez and their rotation
The Cubs will be players as well and the Nats have somewhat shored up their BP, Rockies got BP help and a catcher
Playoffs are going to be fun to watch.
Calhoun was blocked and his defense leaves a lot to be desired, if the rangers front office were smart they’d have asked for keibert Ruiz also. We absolutely won this trade because all the pieces we gave up are so far away and blocked by better players. Darvish said he will weigh out free agency, doubtful he will return because rangers won’t be competitive for years. I expect hamels to be traded this winter. Rangers rebuild has begun.
Im really glad we didnt lose Yusniel Diaz, Keibert Ruiz, DJ Peters. Dennis Santana and Starling Heredia, plus naturally Bueller, Verdugo and Alvarez.
I wouldnt say we won this trade JUST YET. I would rather have Paul Korneko than Eric Karros (sometimes when prospects are blocked doesnt mean they werent the best option or upgrade). Something to think about in the future with our so called blocked prospects.
Great job by the FO our farm is still well stocked with talent
The Rangers FO has no clue about scouting, the only good trade they ever made in terms of selling a vet for Prospects was the Teixeira trade and that was probably a completely different group of people. Dodgers definitely hosed us because they knew the Rangers were antsy to get something for Darvish and those guys included were of no use to the Dodgers organization
Eric Gagne for David Murphy worked out pretty good. Otherwise that is really the only other trade as the Rangers have been buyers ever since.
I completely agree with you! Prospects are increasingly more valuable in today’s MLB because they are low cost assets. Seager and bellinger add so much more value to our team because they are cost controlled for the next few years. As a fan I will always hold prospects higher than high priced free agents because there’s no guarantee injuries won’t happen with big time players and then you handcuffed with the financials. If Giancarlo got a major injury the marlins would be handicapped for 8 years paying 35 million a year for not the same impact player. I can’t wait to see what Harper gets in free agency.
There’s no way to declare you won the trade. You have no guarantee as to how Darvish will perform. And while Calhoun may not have fit into the Dodger’s plan he is an asset. What if he ends up having an amazing year in AAA and becomes one of the best hitting prospects. He could’ve centered a trade for someone better than Darvish,
My point is, you make the trades you think you need to make and you hope that it works out for both sides, but for you more than the other. We can’t say who won as of today.
Sorry but we won the trade, Calhoun had no spot on our team he’s blocked at the very few positions he could play. When Gonzalez comes back bellinger would shift to 3rd, he’d be so far down the depth chart. While he might be a great hitter we play in the nl and his terrible defense would also be a factor. So yes we won this trade we gave up a strength to improve a weakness for nothing that handicaps us for the future.
I feel like you read his first sentence then clicked reply immediately instead of reading the entire post…
Obviously neither of you can read what I am saying. Let me repeat once more CALHOUN HAD NO PLACE ON OUR TEAM. His awful defense coupled with our depth made him expendable, much better fit in American League for him. Win win win.
Haha you really are mindless
All your comments on this page have been petty
Hey mindless. Didn’t realize you own the Dodgers. Congrats on your win!
Just gotta rub a little salt in the Rangers wounds. Texas fans are the absolute worst in baseball. Expected a huge return for darvish in the days leading up and got a fraction of what you asked for and are acting likes it’s what you wanted.
Bellinger would absolutely not play 3B, he’s left handed
Bellinger also projects to have a plus-plus glove at 1B, so why move him?
You’re confusing my point. You can name me 100 reasons why it made sense to trade Calhoun and I won’t argue a single one of them against you. I simply made the point that we have to wait and see who actually wins the trade and that may not be evident for 2 or 3 years.
Different sport but the Pittsburgh Steelers decided not to draft Dan Marino because they had Terry Bradshaw as their starting QB. Bradshaw get’s a career ending injury within a year and he retires. If they had drafted Marino it would’ve been amazing.
My point was simply that IF he becomes a “Kris Bryant” type of bat next year then his value as a prospect would rise and thus he could’ve been an even bigger piece to use as trade bait.
Regardless, no one can say it was a good or bad trade until we see what Darvish does in the next 60 days and what these prospects become in the next 3 or 4 years. But Texas made the right movement for them right now.
In the mindless make-believe world lefties not only play third but shortstop too.
I still don’t get how so many Ranger fans thought they’d get a Sale, Quintana, or Gray haul for rental Darvish.
Calhoun has a bat that’ll play just fine in the majors and AJ Alexy has a good arm with a high ceiling. The Rangers need pitching but you were never going to see Buehler
I think at some point you have to go all in, and the Dodgers are currently in that position. If anything, they should have gotten a (true) reliever as well.
Agee with you Saavedra, even J Wilson would have been fine with me if we couldnt get Britton.
Cingrani/Watson thumbs down
Would have liked to have Calhoun at second with us next year possibly platooning with Forsythe. Oh well, maybe our long term plans include getting Manny Machado at third and moving Turner over to second?
Dodgers fans are greedy but I guess you have unlimited money so good for y’all
I’m not a Dodger fan, but OK. How is saying something like “Dodgers have unlimited money” an insult? I don’t get it.
Just leave, do us all a favor and abandon the internet.
While I still think the Dodgers are going to make it to the NLCS and probably the WS as well, they needed someone else to provide shutdown relief innings in there. They needed Wilson or Brad Hand, IMO.
The Rangers and Dodgers both won the trade. The Dodgers got Yu without giving up their top prospects, Rangers get more value than they would if Yu left as a free agent.
Dodgers fans, shed some light on the projected ceiling for these prospects if you will.
Calhoun has a big league bat. I’ve liked watching AJ Alexy and feel like he has good potential to be either a solid bullpen arm or #3/4 starter.
Brandon Davis is the lottery ticket of the 3, it’ll just depend on how he develops
Calhouns bat def plays but his defense and position are lacking (DH)
Alexy, young high upside but most likely ceiling as #3
Davis, wild card
So a good return for a guy you have to assume was going to leave. 1 close to MLB ready, another that looks to be serviceable in the next 2-3 years and the wild card. The 80th or so pick only nets the Rangers a wild card so all in all in a weak trade market, not bad to get the same wild card plus two more projectable players. Hope it works out for both teams.
Give Friedman an A plus. Only way it can get better if we can get a bench bat really good coming into late inning scenarios. It’s hard to find a guy like that, but that’s really the only area we can improve in, I think. Gonna be exciting to see all the new players they bring up to spell our main players for a play off run. That Kyle Farmer walk off hit was amazing.
Look at the dodgers in all post seasons they’ve been in, yes they needed darvish Watson and cingrani there a team who always collapses adding depth like this is huge, regular season is not the post season. The dodgers did what the dodgers do make moves to win it all. I’m a huge fan of the deal and I’m not a dodgers fan. But they did what all other contenders wanted to do add the heat pitcher to the best staff in baseball.
The Achilles heal for the Dodgers in all of the last four postseasons has been a lack of depth in the bullpen and a short rotation. In the last postseason they had to go back and back again to the only effective relievers (Blanton and Jansen) and eventually that well went dry, and they were also forced to run Kershaw out on three days of rest (and even use him in relief). Darvish lengthens the rotation to where it needs to be (four starters). Whether Watson or Cingrani gives them what they need from a situational lefty reliever remains to be seen, but either way, they are probably in better shape for the late innings now with the more fully developed Baez and the addition of Morrow.
It really depends on what version you are getting in Darvish. He has been pretty horrible the last couple of months, and his last start he was destroyed by a mediocre Marlins offense. Some former players on MLB Network were questioning on if he might be secretly hurt and not saying anything because of a contract year, or if he is just tipping to many pitches.
He had one or two bad starts…before the last start he had a 3.4 ERA so he has not been “horrible for the last couple months”
Hes got torched in 3 of his last 8 starts, going from a 3.00 to 4.00 ERA over that time (with about a 4.0 FIP, so it’s not a fluke)
Not that I’m saying he’s trash, but there is definitely something different in his game.
This a baseball trade at its best really. You pay up to get a quality player for a playoff run and you reload when your team is out of it and your quality players are on expiring contracts.
Just wanted to give a shoutout to all GM’s at this years trade deadline in not being ridiculous and overpaying for rentals/cost controlled relievers like last years unbelievable returns that were given.
Brought the market for rentals/relievers/cost controlled starters/relievers back down to earth
Great name btw! I agree^
Figures this would happen in the first year in forever that the Rangers were sellers.
SUCKS being a Rangers fan!
And the GM’s that gave all those “over payments” on rentals got to the WS. I guess the term “overpaying” can be subjective.
The Rangers over paid, and got swept
Rangers overpaid year after year since 2010 and whiffed on pretty much every day. Now our ML team is bad and our farm is closer to the bottom than the top.
every guy*
Yet Jon Daniels still has a job.
And the citizens of Arlington agreed to build the Rangers a new stadium.
Crazy
the over paid on the wrong guys, clearly.
I hear you on getting to WS and Flags Fly Forever, maybe I am just bitter at the Yanks for turning their organization completely around on selling/raping on the Miller Chapman deals.
But those teams did set a dangerous trend that I feared would carry into this years deadline and into the future. Glad to see it is somewhat under control for now. But maybe the importance of elite BP pieces has shifted to this new trend?
To put this trade in perspective for how bad it was for TEX… the Rangers and Jon Daniels gave up more for Carlos Beltran last year than they got for Yu Darvish this year.
UMMM, no. Only Tate is even on the radar in the Yankees system. All three of these guys slot into the Rangers top 30.
Wow…Is the Rangers system that bad?
These guys were all top 30 in the Dodgers, too. In fact Calhoun was 4 for them and now 2 for us. Alexy and Davis actually rank lower in the Rangers than they did for the Dodgers.
But yes, the Rangers have a few good guys but not anybody close right now.
I believe the Rangers system is ranked #24
Yep, still better than the Angels though! Just nobody minus Taveras at the higher ranks, well Calhoun now. If we can get some of these high ceiling second tier guys to finally figure it out we can move up though. Rangers have always been big on high ceiling, high risk and they find a way for that to work. Most of those guys are 2019 at the earliest.
And bleacher report now has us at 21. now ahead of the Mariners in our division as well.
Where they slot in a specific team’s prospect rankings is irrelevant. What matters is where they slot among all prospects or where they slot at their projected position. Of course Tate is the only guy we gave up last year who’s still on the radar in the Yankee’s… because the Yankees have a WAY better system loaded with prospects.
Every reputable prospect ranking source (Baseball America, Baseball Prospectus, MLB… NOT BLEACHER REPORT) at the time of the trade for Beltran had Tate rated much higher than Calhoun rates now. Swanson and Green – the “other guys” Daniels shipped off for Beltran, were also slightly more well regarded thank Alexy and Davis.
Plus, the Rangers have NEVER been able to develop arms (Kevin Brown being the only homegrown Ranger to come up through our system and actually reach his potential as a front-line guy). So, Alexy won’t ever make it to the majors as anything worthwhile as a Ranger.
This isn’t true at all. Calhoun is a legitimate 55 FV prospect and consensus top 100 prospect at this time. By the deadline of last season, Tate had dropped to a 50 FV prospect and was off of all midseason lists that re-rank prospects. Calhoun is a much better prospect today than Tate was last year. As to the to other players, all were 45 FV types in A ball, but the return this year are both 2-3 years younger than the players they gave up last year. This package is definitely superior to the package the Rangers gave to the Yankess last year.
Too early to tell. If Darvish is awful in the playoffs and then signs with an NL West rival, it was a horrible deal for the Dodgers.
If the Dodgers win the WS, it’s worth it no matter who they gave up.
Darvish is inline for a fairly substantial payday unless his arm falls off between now and November, so which NL West rival will sign him if that does happen? Remember, unless he flames out horribly and is damaged, he’s still going to be paid somewhere around the going rate for a 2 WAR per year pitcher on his next deal.
Giants already have a ton of sunk cost in their rotation and Darvish does not help them get back to relevance, so there isn’t much of a ready-made fit there.
Padres are still cheap, rebuilding, and likely 3-4 years away from contention.
Dbacks have a solid rotation and owe Greinke a crap-ton of money anyway. They likely don’t have much payroll flexibility to pay Darvish for 3 or 4 years at $15-20 million per.
Rockies would be a fit, but I doubt Darvish goes there because no pitcher ever wants to go to Colorado unless they have no other choice. There is, after all, a reason that the Rockies are one of the teams on Darvish’s no-trade list.
Lastly, if Darvish does suck, it was not a horrible deal, since the Dodgers didn’t give up anyone who was realistically part of their future MLB club. The only cost would be one of opportunity, in that Calhoun could have been traded for another asset that might have been better.
Depending on what happens from here til the end of Oct, I’d be willing to sign Darvish for 5 years around 20 million per. Otani?
Possibly try and trade McCarthy and somehow trade Kazmir? Depends on what we are doing regarding the luxury tax
I see what you’re getting at, and McCarthy may have some value, but I think they’re probably stuck with Kazmir unless he gets dumped for a bucket of balls in the off-season with the Dodgers eating most of the $17.6 million owed to him for 2018.
Of course, this FO has always been shown to be creative, so you never know what they could concoct.
Personally- I do not think this trade made in sense for the dodgers. The dodgers have three guys capable of winning a playoff game. Why not add dominant relief help to shorten the game? They have more injuries than most playoff teams. IMO they should have traded for quality utility players like Eduardo Nunez (not that the giants would do that, but for example purposes). They essentially got a little bit better and paid extra for it. Not the type of move I figured an ex Tampa gm would make. Overpay to get marginally better in your rotation.
Eduardo Nunez? Our superutility players or depth is covered. Kike, CT, Barnes…..but I do agree with you on that we should have gotten a stud reliever
Darvish is an ace and makes me more comfortable come playoff time
Because you need four to nail it down Trotting Kershaw out on three days rest isn’t much of a postseason plan. In addition, the top four without Darvish is probably going to be all lefty.
As for utility players, it would be difficult to spot two better than Taylor and Hernandez, let alone, on the same team.
Agreed…Not a lot of room on the 25-man for marginal improvements.
Yes, a shutdown LH bullpen piece would have been nice, but I think Watson is still an upgrade over Avilan, whom I absolutely do not trust in any kind of high-leverage situation.
Besides, the difference between now and 2016, is that last year, Blanton was overused during the regular season because he was the only one in the ‘pen besides Jansen who could be trusted. By the time the playoffs rolled around, Blanton was gassed.
This year, the workload has been more evenly distributed and the Dodgers starters have been marginally better at getting (slightly) deeper into games. With the Darvish trade and the improved bullpen, I don’t think we’ll need to see CK on short rest in a playoff series this time around.
Speaking of the 25-man, I am not hearing anything about who gets sent down or designated to make room for these three, or when Darvish will make his first start. Thinking that will be tomorrow, where they’ve got Stewart penciled in for now.
Wasn’t Freeman already DFA’d yesterday? Beyond that, I’m guessing Stewart gets optioned, and hopefully, Hatcher gets DFA’d.
Mike Freeman & Peter O’Brien were DFA’d but think Stripling will get sent down not Stewart.
Hatcher needs to go
No doubt…I don’t know what the FO sees in Hatcher. He’s been bad for a while now and I hope they finally cut bait after this round of moves.
You’re right, Freeman was optioned to OKC yesterday. Hatcher is still on the DL and he can stay there as far as I’m concerned.
Paredes was designated today and Watson activated. No word on a corresponding move on Cingrani, or Darvish for that matter.
I was a little surprised there weren’t more teams involved. I expected this deal to surpass the Chapman deal last year in terms of prospect return, but the bidding war never materialized for Darvish and the Rangers were left with basically a single offer.
On the other hand, I can easily see the Dodgers extending Darvish before he hits FA. As other posts have mentioned above, LA is a better fit culturally than DFW for a Japanese player.
I just don’t see the Dodgers keeping Darvish beyond this season, regardless of outcome. They’re trying to get below the salary tax threshold and hopefully make a run at the big-time FA’s that will be available after 2018. It doesn’t make a lot of sense to add $20 million-plus per year for Darvish when you likely will have Buehler and (hopefully) Urias ready to step in between now and 2019.
Let’s see how he fairs before grading the trade.
I want to predict now that the Rangers got absolutely ridiculous value for a rental.
Personally I wonder if a little more prospect value would have acquired Sonny Gray.
Calhoun will be a monster bat and Davis has potentially great value depending on muscle.
if monster means a bust, then yes I agree. He has hands like Joey Cora. The kid is a bum and will wash out in the majors.
Ultimately I think that Gonzalez will move back to first and bellinger to the outfield. Any way that we could trade joc for a more proven left hander? I think verdugo is a much better player than joc and we have a log jam in the outfield.
Calhoun would already be up if he could field. He can’t.
As a Ranger fan, the season is over. The long shot climb to real WC contention is now impossible. If he takes off in LA, the likelihood he returns to play in TX seems that much more remote. It was a good buy for LA: there are lots of NL batters who haven’t faced the 5-6 serviceable pitches he’s got. This trade could really move the Dodgers over that hill, and I for one will be rooting for them in October. I remember the Cliff Lee trade in 2010 cost a couple #1 draft picks and change at the time, but that WS trip wouldn’t have happened without him. I think this is definitely one of those trades where the rewards outweigh the risks. Yu smoked like 12 batters the game before getting jacked by the Marlins, so consistency is the only thing to be concerned about. He should be healthy, and I think he’s gotten bulkier and more powerful since the TJ surgery. Good luck, Dodgers!
Zaidi said this evening that the Dodgers scouts felt they’d spotted a few things he could work on to refine his game.
His first start is Friday, against the Mets in New York.
And we all know that the Rangers pitching coach sucks so there was no way it would ever be spotted here. Look how Dyson and Tolleson have done since they left. I bet Jeffress goes back to being a good pitcher for the Brewers and Yu becomes even more dominant.