11:05am: USA Today’s Bob Nightengale reports that Verlander will retain full no-trade protection now as a member of the Astros (Twitter links). Additionally, the Astros have agreed to waive his vesting option for the 2020 season. Verlander would’ve needed a top five finish in the 2019 Cy Young voting to see that $22MM option vest, though it stands to reason that if he were to finish in the top five that season, he’d be able to earn more on the open market in free agency.
Nightengale also confirms that Houston will receive a PTBNL in the deal as opposed to further cash considerations. (Houston will still receive the $16MM from the Tigers to help pay down some of Verlander’s salary.)
12:30am: In a stunning reversal, after a deal seemingly collapsed, the Tigers have officially sent long-time ace Justin Verlander to the Astros. Prospects Franklin Perez, Daz Cameron, and Jake Rogers will go to Detroit in the deal. Houston is also slated to receive $16MM from Detroit to cover a portion of Verlander’s remaining salary, along with a player to be named later or cash considerations.
The August trade period has never been so loaded with blockbusters. This year, the Tigers pulled off not one but two major swaps on August 31st — the last day for teams to deal players who’d be eligible to appear in the postseason with their new organizations. After shipping outfielder Justin Upton to the Angels earlier today, Detroit GM Al Avila hammered out a yet-more-significant trade by parting with one of the franchise’s icons tonight.
While dealing Upton came with some complications, the path to the Verlander trade was riddled with roadblocks. Starts and stops in talks over recent months left immense uncertainty as to his future. His full no-trade rights loomed as a barrier, while the $56MM left on his contract after this season (for the 2018 and 2019 campaigns) seemed steep. Indeed, he cleared revocable waivers, with no clubs putting in a claim to take over his entire deal.
The chatter picked up, then sputtered, approaching the July 31st non-waiver trade deadline, then ebbed and flowed in August after Verlander had cleared revocable trade waivers. Throughout it all, Verlander turned in gem after gem, increasing his appeal as a trade target all the while.
Ultimately, Houston couldn’t pass on the chance to add the hard-throwing workhorse, parting with three talented young players to get him. The Tigers couldn’t miss on this opportunity to deal him at a relative high point, especially after Verlander struggled early in the 2017 campaign. And though Verlander waited until the last minute to approve the trade — MLB Network’s Jon Morosi tweets that he held out for a chance to land with the Cubs — he ultimately decided to depart a franchise that is obviously launching a significant rebuilding process for one that owns the best record in the American League.
The dealmaking took place even as the Astros prepare to return to their home city for the first time since Hurricane Harvey pummeled the Texas cost. As the city and its brave citizens continue to battle flood waters, the Astros will play a dramatic doubleheader tomorrow while preparing to welcome one of the most accomplished pitchers of the past 40 years.
It will be tempting for some Astros fans to see Verlander as something of a savior. He is one of the game’s highest-profile players — due not only to his excellence, but also his relationship with supermodel Kate Upton — and the team has struggled of late even as it comfortably paces the AL West.
But Verlander is already 34 years of age and has quite a lot of mileage on his arm — durable though it may be — after 380 regular season MLB outings. While he owns a 3.49 ERA through more than 2,500 innings on the Major League hill, it’s fair to wonder when he’ll slow down. Indeed, those concerns rose to the fore as Verlander labored to a 4.96 ERA through his first 17 starts this season.
Of late, though, Verlander has been outstanding. Since a dud to open the month of July, Verlander has pitched to a 2.31 ERA with 84 strikeouts against 20 walks over 74 innings. He’s throwing as hard as ever and could still crack 200 innings for the tenth time in the past 11 seasons.
Clearly, Verlander represents a significant upgrade for an Astros staff that has had its ups and downs this year even as the team runs away with a division crown. While Dallas Keuchel and Lance McCullers Jr. are big talents, both have had injury problems; the latter has also had some hiccups of late and is currently on the DL. Other hurlers — including Charlie Morton, Brad Peacock, and Mike Fiers — have certainly had their moments in 2017, but there was room for the Astros to add a postseason starter to the mix.
The addition is especially notable given that the ’Stros missed on Zach Britton and another as-yet-unknown pitcher at the July 31st non-waiver trade deadline. Verlander will bump some other arms into the bullpen, especially during the postseason, helping to deepen the overall staff while also giving the team a pitcher that is no stranger to working late into playoff games. Of particular note for an Astros team that has only burst into competitiveness in recent seasons, Verlander a 3.39 ERA through 98 1/3 innings in 16 postseason contests == the most recent of which came in 2014.
Unsurprisingly, the addition comes at a cost. While Verlander’s salary held down his value, Detroit still managed to secure some high-end talent in this deal, all while clearing the bulk of Verlander’s contract from the books. In combination with the Upton trade, the Tigers have saved something on the order of $136MM in salary commitments. (That estimate includes the remainder of those players’ salaries for the current season, less the money the team has agreed to retain in both deals. It also assumes Upton would not opt out after the current season, which remains to be seen.)
While Cameron is perhaps the best-known youngster moving in this deal, Perez is undoubtedly the headliner. The 19-year-old righty entered the year on top-100 prospect charts, with the potential of developing a quality four-pitch arsenal, and has delivered on the hype. Through 86 1/3 innings at the High-A and Double-A levels, Perez carries a 3.02 ERA with 8.1 K/9 and 2.8 BB/9.
Cameron was one of the highest-rated players in the 2015 draft, and Houston structured its strategy that day around landing him with a big bonus at pick No. 37. The son of long-time major leaguer Mike Cameron, the 20-year-old has bounced back from a tough 2016 campaign. Over 506 plate appearances this year at A ball, he’s slashing .271/.347/.567 with 14 home runs and 32 stolen bases. Notably, too, he has drastically pared back the strikeouts that plagued him last year, carrying a 21.1% rate thus far in 2017.
Detroit also lands a potential future catcher in Rogers, who is a highly regarded defensive backstop that has shown some hitting skills as well. While he’s already 22 years of age, the 2016 third-rounder from Tulane succeeded at the plate at both the Class A and High-A levels this year. Over 479 total plate appearances, he’s slashing .265/.353/.476 with 18 long balls, and he’s also recorded 52 walks against 100 strikeouts.
The dramatic tale of this trade isn’t yet over. Verlander promises to be one of the most closely watched players in this year’s postseason and will be expected to anchor the staff over the final two years of his deal. And the Tigers will hope that the three players acquired will help form the team’s next core of stars — though it will likely be some time before any test their merit at the game’s highest level.
Chris McCosky of the Detroit News covered the late-breaking negotiations (links to Twitter). Anthony Fenech of the Detroit Free Press first reported (via Twitter) that a deal was done. Jon Heyman of Fan Rag (via Twitter) reported the return, which McCosky had previously noted, while Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports (via Twitter) and Bob Nightengale of USA Today (Twitter link) had the financial elements.
Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
nmendoza44
Smart
Kayrall
Looks like Kate is going to have to whip out her stilettos when she arrives.
everlastingdave
Ok, that’s funny. Most Kate Upton jokes, not so much. But I’ll give you that one.
Solaris611
Verlander was a late addition the last time the Tigers rebuilt – came up after Jeremy Bonderman – late in the Bobby Higginson era. He sails off into the sunset as the Tigers begin their next rebuild.
JrodFunk5
Great memories! Time to rebuild. Good luck JV, it’s been a great ride!!
vinscully16
Bobby Higginson, well played! I watched Higginson break up a Roy Halladay no-no in the late 90s. Raced to the ballpark and arrived just in time to see Higginson’s HR land in the LF bullpen – one out shy of said no-no for Roy. I can’t help but feel responsible.
Great trade for the Astros!
dodgerfan711
Make up your mind!!!
DG32
Oh
KillahAC
WHAT?!?
KGBaseball25
No way!
SirPartyAnimal
noooooo
Gogerty
Well there it is, great deadline day.
CursedRangers
Very interesting day
marlinsman
What the fuuuuuuh
24TheKid
Fml.
abmarinerjv
Yep. Was really hoping they would be too arrogant to do the right thing. Bad news for the AL contenders.
bradthebluefish
#Winning!
Bradley0327
Wow.
sdmexicanf00d
Someone changed their mind
wiggysf
Here’s where every single astros fan says how relieved they are. And Dallas Keuchal.
astros_should_be_fortyfives
Not relieved at all . This is not a good move , it was made out of sheer desperation as they realized they screwed the pooch by not doing a smart move with an eye to the future with a young controllable starter in the offseason or in the early days of this season. Horrible contract, he will make more than every other starter combined .
newman2079
we kept Tucker and Whitley, this is a win!
sngehl01
Kept a lot. I hate to see Perez go, but they need the shot in the arm and the playoff pitcher now. I don’t mind Cameron and Rogers, but both are fairly low in terms of prospect value.
Perez could develop a 4 pitch arsenal, but he’s also a minor league arm that’s been good, not great. Gotta give to get, I just wish Detroit would have ate more cash on the deal.
Bob M.
20 mill over 2 years is not a bad contract for Verlanders caliber. Keep in mind Beltran is making 16 million this season.
In all honesty as an avid Astros follower. They didn’t give up much.
willi
Their are still challenges for the astro’s , but he will help a little,
But at what financial Cost to the franchise” long term”
kam3hameha
Seriously, man? How do you feel now that we are WORLD SERIES CHAMPS and he was a big part of it? :p
terry g
Surprised at this but Houston needs him
162and0padres
OWOWOWOWOWOWOWO
woolcorp
Great work Rangers! Pushing for a wildcard while your division just added Justin Upton and Verlander!
CursedRangers
The Rangers have a pretty improbable chance of doing anything in the postseason. Hey did pick up a starting pitcher.
The Astros gave up 2 top 100 prospects for Verlander and now have his salary on the books.
The Angels still aren’t likely to do much this postseason either.
THE JOKER
I don’t think these trades will hurt the Rangers they have enough..to keep swatting down the tros…& halos…yes it helps them…but…it maybe alittle late..now..I could be wrong…sorry…Wacky..AL divisions… anything can happen here…
padam
Common’… Rangers got Miguel Gonzalez.
Rob L. 2
Come on = 2 separate words.
troy
^^ Love it man
NeilAlien
WELL ::pushes up glasses:: In this context, “Come on” is a phrase containing two words, meaning it should be considered a singular unit. How you’d actually want to correct @Rob is by changing his comment to: “‘Come on’ is two separate words.”
That sentence is vernacular shorthand for “[The expression] ‘Come on’ is [composed of] two separate words.”
Go Brewers
sufferforsnakes
How about just using c’mon?
Kane U.
How about just using “Cum On”…me.
Kane U.
What a dumbass
madmanTX
What do you care? Nobody from the AL West is going to win the World Series this year anyway.
cmancoley
I’ll be ecstatic if the Angels just make the playoffs. A world series would be great but you just gotta make baby steps
alt2tab
Playoffs are a complete crapshoot. Who thought the 83-78 Cardinals would win the World Series in 2006?
padresfan
They shouldn’t have. They faced a better team in the division season and they were able to blank them.
There were many what ifs that could have changed the course of the outcome
kam3hameha
Oh, really? 🙂
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
Clearly the Rangers were sellers this year. Buyer’s don’t trade Yu Darvish.
tsc32
What did you want Texas to do? Rebuilding the farm was the right play. Getting Gonzalez for a pack of bubblegum was also a good play. Texas did everything right in the trade market this season.
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
Trading for Gonzalez was a horrible play! He’s a free agent at the end of the year! WHY would the Rangers trade ANYTHING, even a pack of bubblegum, for a pending free agent when they aren’t even trying to make the playoffs this year? And don’t say they are trying to make the playoffs. If that were true they wouldn’t have traded Yu Darvish.
TX007
The Rangers as in JD traded Darvish because it wasn’t a lock that the team would make the playoffs with him. So he did the right thing and acquired the most he could for someone that was going to be one of the most sought after free agents. And the Rangers as in the team haven’t given up on the season even after Beltre got hurt. This would be obvious if you’d use some common sense. Acquiring Gonzalez was for depth and paid a minimal price.
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
Of course it wasn’t a lock that the Rangers would make the playoffs with Darvish. But he would make it more likely that they make the playoffs and go far in the playoffs. If you are trying to make the playoffs and not get bounced in the first round you don’t trade a guy like that. Ever. It’s the same as when the A’s traded Cespedes 3 years ago. Beane should have been fired for that. If the Rangers truly hadn’t given up on the season they would have kept Darvish. A championship is worth more than ANY prospect and having him around makes a championship more likely. Acquiring Gonzalez was stupid because the Rangers already gave up on this season by trading Darvish and Forbes had a better chance of helping the Rangers in 2018 and beyond than Gonzalez does for the sole reason that he’d still be there!
Kayrall
This waiver deadline has been incredible. Hopefully this is recurring in future years.
CursedRangers
Makes me wonder what the Rangers would have got if they would have traded Darvish now.
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
Nothing. Darvish would have never cleared waivers.
lsujedi
As a Stros fan, obviously love this. Perez hurts a bit, but Cameron has always been overrated. Rogers will be a serviceable big leaguer but not anything worth not pulling the trigger here. Good day to be a Stros fan.
Spencer Smith
Right, it do they already have better players in those positions for the next few years? I think so, right?
lsujedi
With the exception of catcher, yes. Forrest Whitley will be up as soon as next season, and there are multiple outfield prospects more exciting and promising than Cameron. A good catching prospect is hard to give up on a team with two age 30+ catchers already on the team. Nonetheless, all things are forgiven with a world series.
jarrett62960
Remember when everyone said the Tigers would have to eat the whole contract….yep
MB923
That escalated quickly
BlakeBanks79
Lol
brucebochyisthemarlboroman
I knew it!
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
Million dollar question: how much of the contract are the Tigers paying?
jarrett62960
Probably not that much
Bob M.
The Astros sent a top 50 prospect and a catcher who will rank in the top 100 this winter, plus another notable name.
The Tigers are eating money.
padam
Yeah. Otherwise why wouldn’t the Astros have put a claim on him during waivers. There’s cash going along with him.
jarrett62960
Looks to be about $10 million…or not that much in the grand scheme of things for Detroit
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
It better be more money than the prospects received are worth. Otherwise it would have made more sense for the Astros to claim JV.
Bob M.
10 million is significant. It knocks his contract to essentially 23 million annually for 2 seasons. If the 3rd year vests it means he finished in the top 5 in the cy young.
The Astros are paying Carlos Beltran 16 million dollars this season. He isn’t coming back next season.
Overall, sensible for both sides.
jarrett62960
Nah…considering everyone was saying Detroit was going to eat half of the contract etc….$10 million is really nothing. Upton’s money is gone and VMart after next season and they will buy out Sanchez. All kinds of money coming off the books. Now Miggy can continue to be lazy and out of shape and it won’t really matter at least
Bob M.
Still stuck with Zimmerman. Gotta love Dumbrowski. Leaves a team in shambles, to claim a smarter mans glory all over again in Boston.
Boston this is your future in 6 years.
BlakeBanks79
Im betting v-mart retires cuz of whats going on with his heart issues. Which would mean put miggy in DH slot n he would b more effective again. Article other day in Detroit News miggy admitted his back doesnt hurt when he swings only when hes hunched over for long periods of time in the field
Eat'EmUpTigers
I’m not the biggest Dombrowski guy, but he didn’t sign Zimmermann. Al Avila did. He also signed Mark Lowe and Mike Pelfrey to MULTI YEAR DEALS. As a Tiger fan I love a rebuild although it’s 2+ years too late. What I don’t like is Avila leading the rebuild. I weep for the Tigers future.
willgrigg
Dombrowski never signed zimmermann
stymeedone
@WCRyan
Do you now understand why the Astros didn’t claim him before? If not, go re-read my earlier reply.
donniebaseball
Rediculous how many people said “teams wouldn’t take JV’s contract straight up.”
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
Clearly someone should have. Unless they WANT to face him in the playoffs.
2dmo4
10mill is what I read somewhere
outinleftfield
$16 million.
donniebaseball
Called the exact dollar amount weeks ago on this site! No big deal
Oglivie
What’s with the 12:20 update? Trying to go to bed. Now up for another hour texting. I’ll let my mom sleep before ruining her day tomorrow.
keepitago
Anyone know how the 3 Houston prospects are?
Kayrall
Good.
BlakeBanks79
Was either there
2,9,11 or there
3,9,11. Seen multiple reports
coldgoldenfalstaff
Crazy.
The big loss is Cameron but he’ll need another 2 years to get to the bigs, Tigers will get a good 4/5 tool player.
Rogers is a good defensive catcher with pop and Whitley’s breakout made Perez expendable, but he’s still a solid starter prospect.
Good trade for both sides
User 4245925809
Funny stuff, tho it will really help if it winds up with the Astros lining up with either the tribe, or boston in the ALCS with only 2-3 top starters needed. Having that go to guy like Verlander will really help, tho man.. 34yo.. One really knows about next 2 years.
baseballmanak
Detroit lost Kate upton and Justin Upton now lol!
Bluesman
They lost two Justins too!
chitown311
Do you think that the Tigers saw what the white Sox did with a complete turnaround in a matter of 6 months, ready to compete in 2019/2020 and for years to come, and got a little envious?? I think it’s what you have to do when you are “mired in mediocrity”
jarrett62960
The Tigers were ready to sell off before the white sox did anything. Just didn’t work out for them
stymeedone
The Tigers are trading players in their 30s after a long run of playoff contention. The White Sox trade players in their 20s, signed to long term, cheap contracts, because they couldn’t figure out how to contend. The timing is coincidental.
Bryzzo2016
The Sux are ready to compete in 2019? According to whom? Compete for what? Many teams have tried what Theo did in both Boston and Chicago, VERY FEW have succeeded. Rick and Kenny have not proven in the slightest that they can scout/develop talent, the same FO that blew up the farm to acquire over the hill, expensive has beens like Frazier, Shields, etc… It takes more than a subscription to Baseball Prospectus to be a GM, trading for alleged “Top Prospects” is only part of it. So, I doubt the White Sox are on the Tiger’s mind… or ANYONE’S mind for that matter, judging by the attendance and ratings the last decade or so.
Phil253
I liked it better when the Astros were cellar dwellers… but this could be there year and their town needs a win. Hats off to ’em and Verlanders twilight years.
socalsoxfan78
And for that reason alone, I’m concerned that Major League Baseball will capitalize on this catastrophe by rigging the playoffs so that the Astros make it to the World Series. I can already see the melodramatic pregame promos narrated by everyone’s favorite announcer, Joe Buck. In spite of that, the series will be a ratings bonanza because almost everyone will want Houston to win after all the horror caused by the Hurricane.
With that being said, if Houston does make it to the World Series, I hope they make it because they clinched the pennant fair and square and not because the league or its umpires intervened.
thegreatcerealfamine
Buck is a God!
oldleftylong
Buck is a god.
tattooed trash
Buck is god of vacuums. He sucks. Could not do half the job his dad did.
tharrie0820
Yeah, arguably the best team in the league would need the MLB to rig the playoffs for them to make. The WS…. Igorant
socalsoxfan78
Arguably the best team in the league? It’s a whole new season in the playoffs. The 2001 Seattle Mariners and their record 116 wins send their regards.
xscalabr
Houston strong
stros1fan
It’s not only ignorant it’s just a stupid, ridiculous comment. Sports fans who believe in conspiracy theories should stay in their parent’s basement playing Dungeons and Dragons or whatever conspiracy theory nerds do today.
socalsoxfan78
Well, uh, that’s just like your opinion, man. Besides, we don’t have basements in California due to earthquakes. So I’d prefer to stay in my own living room with my family and friends, and see what happens in the playoffs on my big 4K TV, thank you. I have nothing against you or the Astros, or anyone in Houston, but I don’t believe for a second that Major League Baseball is a completely virtuous business. They’re in the business of making money by entertaining people. With the rate of baseballs flying into the outfield seats this season, many players believe the balls are juiced this year even though Manfred denies it. Should they stay in their parent’s basement too?
astros_fan_84
The Yankees lost after 9/11. MLB isn’t rigging anything.
Francys01
Good for Detroit, they got really good prospects in this deal. The trade works for both teams.
TribeTown
Wow. Wagering on a couple good starts from him in October. This will be interesting…
Astros2333
Amazing Deal!!!! Whitley, Cionel, and Tucker are still Astros. In Luhnow I Trust!!!
Bob M.
I think Perez is the guy they were dangling all summer. I think Perez and Rogers have very good floors, but the ceiling is a bit limited. Cameron is a wildcard. He had a good second half, could explode or never get to double A.
coldgoldenfalstaff
Cameron is talented but raw and drafted out of HS, will take longer to develop and refine into a big league bat.
First round talent, Astros got him in the second due to Luhnow’s bonus slot management, other teams couldn’t afford to sign him at slot.
If the Tigers are patient they’ll be happy what they get,
Rogers looks to develop into a mid tier big league defensive catcher with some pop but not a quality hitter.
No idea what Perez becomes, could be a high #2 or a low #4 starter.
Bob M.
I think we will hear in the winter on how scouts see Rogers bat now. He was a 3 year college player and hasn’t seen double A. So the stat line is what it should be. I don’t think the Astros would have traded him if they believe he could hit long term. He is a big leaguer because he is a potential gold glove. But I suspect when he starts seeing real sliders, the K’s are going to sky rocket.
coldgoldenfalstaff
Astros have a nasty habit of trading good catching prospects, lol.
donniebaseball
People said the Tigers wouldn’t eat any money. People said Verlander wasn’t worth top prosects. People said he was a #4 starter.
I’ll be cheering for him in Houston. Good luck JV. Houston got an ace.
pseudostats
For sure, many of us Tiger fans were suggesting that JV wouldn’t be traded for peanuts because of what he means to the franchise.
oldleftylong
Well stated donniebaseball. JV will pitch into his late 30s.
Steve Lawrence
Tigers fan here – you Astros fans will love JV. He pitches stronget as the year goes on. Always has. He has been consistently at 97- and has hit 100 recently. And he is a bull dog. I’ve watched about 75% of his starts over his career. He’s a guy you want in the post season. I hope your team gets him a ring. Congrats!
pseudostats
Going to miss JV. Takes the ball and wants to go as deep into the game as he can. Competitor, bull dog, you name it, the man can still pitch.
Breezy
Pretty solid haul for 3 1/2 years of Verlander. At 28mm per year from here on out though, gotta hope his play comes a bit closer to his 2016 performance.
tigerfan4ever
His last two games as a Tiger, he gave up a run to the Dodgers and a run to the Rockies. He’s in playoff mode. Enjoy your new acquisition, Houston!
Joe Kerr
surprised this same move didn’t happen earlier but it’s a great move for both teams imo.
Bob M.
Honestly I think Perez was in the Britton deal. Which caused a significant ripple effect of what the Astros could do, while the Orioles just went dark.
chris1980
Another bad trade by Avila no top 50 prospects. Tigers the next team to go 100 years without a ws.
Oglivie
On the bright side, it’s been 33 years already, so cheer up Tiger fans, only 67 more years!
Bob M.
Perez is a top 50 prospect. I think Keith Law had has in the 30s. Honestly Kieth Laws top 100 is the only one worth looking at.
Priggs89
Would it kill you to do just a tiny bit of research before making a dumb comment? Clearly you have access to the internet, so Google is your friend. Perez is a top 50 prospect according to Baseball America and MLB.com.
Bob M.
I wonder if the Astros put Peacock in the pen, just for the sheer fact he could dominate there for the rest of the year and that pen is an issue.
Peacock however will be a mainstay in the astros rotation in 2018 and beyond with the resurgent velo and slider.
Hell if Mccullers doesn’t come back and a have few good starts he may be in the pen in October. Mchugh has been good, Morton has been good, Keuchel outside of 1 inning yesterday has been fine.
Mike Fiers well… long man.
astros_fan_84
Reasonable deal. The Astros need to hold onto the top spot in the AL.
FOmeOLS
Those sports illustrated issues are going to be priceless when the Astros win it all.
The Dodgers added Darvish, the Houstons got Verlander.
LA won that matchup but Houston will win the series.
dodgerfan711
Im not assuming anthing about getting the world seires. Let alone the outcome. Neither should you
kam3hameha
Damn, good observation that actually happened. 🙂
kidfavre4
Shout out to all the idiots who said Verlander wasn’t worth any prospects.
Andre Dawson's eyebrow
Cubs should have got him don’t need another outfielder we have enough that don’t play well or often
oldleftylong
Have another beer.
Soxman81
Keuchel leaves in FA now. Can’t imagine Houston will pay two ace contracts.
Good move for this year though.
Bob M.
Keuchel is a free agent after 2018. Verlanders contract expires in 2019, if it doesn’t vest. If it does vest, it means he produced. There is essentially 1 year overlap when signing Keuchel will take at the very least 6 years.
He needs to show he can stay healthy before they commit. But this has no impact to the long term future spending of Houston.
The significant money the Astros are going to get hit with are Springer’s, Correa’s and Giles arbitration numbers.
Altuve is a priority over Dallas. The Astros have a lot of depth in their rotation under team control for awhile.
xabial
People gonna wake up tomorrow like: WTF?!! I SLEPT THRU THIS !
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
Scratching my head as to why they didn’t claim him. I’d much rather have Perez, Cameron and Rogers than $10m.
TheChampIsHere
They still have to work out a deal. If a deal isn’t worked out, then the Tigers would have just pulled him back. Just because you claim someone, doesn’t mean you just pay their salary and give up nothing..
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
Well if what you’re saying is true, that the Tigers would have pulled him back if he was claimed and they didn’t get an offer they liked, then the teams ahead of the Astros in the waiver order had NO excuse for not claiming Verlander in order to block the Astros from getting him.
stymeedone
There is always the possibility of an Alex Rios move. $28MM of unexpected salary can mess up a teams budget, and get a GM fired. ( Unless you’re the White Sox, and then you promote him.)
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
But you guys already said there was no way the Tigers let Verlander go on waivers. Which one is it?
And if JV is as hot of a commodity as Tigers fans on here (and apparently, Jeff Luhnow) seem to think he is, the Tigers letting Verlander and his contract go your team wouldn’t be a bad thing for you.
Bob M.
They had no reason to claim him. The Astros were either the 2nd to, or last team who can claim a player when going through waivers. Because it goes in the order of overall record. If they did claim him, the Tigers would have pulled him back and it would have shown the Tigers their hand.
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
No they wouldn’t have been last. It goes by league. So by passing on him the Astros were betting on EVERY NL team passing on him. Claiming him wouldn’t have shown the Tigers any hand.
pseudostats
My friend, you certainly are sticking to your convictions, but if anything, this trade should put those convictions to rest. You repeated (many times) how JV wasn’t worth a thing on the trade market. Please give it a rest and get some sleep; these JV trade rumors have been something else.
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
My point is if the Astros thought JV had positive trade value (which, based on the amount of cash coming back, they did) they had no excuse for not claiming him. By not claiming him they were risking one of the NL teams claiming him in which case they wouldn’t have been able to trade for him. And if he’s as hot of a commodity as you seem to think he is, that is a legitimate concern. And the same goes for all the teams ahead of Verlander in the waiver order. The Red Sox could have placed a claim, for instance, even if they didn’t feel he was a fit for their rotation, in order to block the Astros from trading for him. Let’s follow that note with one of your ridiculous expressions.
All the best.
pseudostats
Ah, so I’ll be a bit more blunt since you enjoy being a tool. You’ve repeated ad nauseam that Verlander had zero trade value and the Tigers would give him away for peanuts. Now you want to twist it into some other moronic thesis that has something to do with other teams claiming him. The facts are you proposed repeatedly that the Tigers would simply dump his contract.
Suck on that for a while.
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
I never claimed to know what the Tigers would or wouldn’t do. I said that they SHOULD dump his contract if anyone was willing to take it because it was my opinion that he wasn’t producing in line with his contract. Based on this trade, the Astros disagreed with my assessment. But with that in mind there was no excuse for them to not claim him on waivers when they had the chance. Why risk someone else claiming him if you don’t have to? Like I said before, if Verlander is as hot of a commodity as you think he is, then one of the NL teams claiming him should have been a very real concern for the Astros.
It should also be mentioned that, were I a GM, I would claim every player on August waivers who I felt had any surplus value at all.
stymeedone
Guess we know why you’ll never be a GM.
1. You would over spend your budget.
2. Other GMs would consider your claims d!¢kish, making it harder to work trades, because they would all think you were a jerk.
Brett3333
You are right TheWest. There isn’t excess value in JVs contract. If there was this much excess value (3 decent prospects) then any team should have claimed him for the 17M that Detroit threw in.
I think what you are missing is the Negative Negative comments from DK and other Astros. The team desperately wanted help. The GM JL finally relented and made this deal. He basically gave up the three prospects to improve his chances at the WS but he overpaid by three prospects. The is no excess value in the contract. That is why he cleared waivers.
If Houston wins the WS then this is TOTALLY worth it, but the next two years of JV will be Neg value vs the contract AND he moved 3 decent prospects.
Its all about winning now and the GM OVERPAYING.
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
1. No because you guys are saying the Tigers wouldn’t have let Verlander go on waivers.
2. Claiming a player on August waivers to block other contenders from getting to him has been part of the game for longer than you have been alive.
We know you’d never be a GM because you think teams have the right to just force players to sign extensions.
stymeedone
Geez, I didn’t think you were incapable of reading. While I did not think they would let him just go on waivers, Avila is fairly new in his job and it’s not the same Ilitch running the team. I wouldn’t risk my job or my teams future on that bet. If I am a team out of contention, JV is not someone to build with. If I am a team in contention at the beginning of July, I may want to watch a while longer before making my move to see if his turn around is real, and if my team if for real. If he gets pulled back, I just eliminated one of my options, and why would I want to do that? If my team is way out front, I don’t need him, and if I claim him I just ruined my payroll structure if they let him go.
Finally, I am constantly making fun of the White Sox for trading young all star caliber players that they were lucky enough to sign to cheap long term contracts, instead of building around them. This is because I appreciate how rare that happens. I will be surprised if they are able to do the same with any of their new group of prospects. So try to stay on topic. Don’t lie about others to try to make yourself look superior. The regulars know my opinions, so you’re not fooling them.
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
Most Tigers fans on here (and even the writers) were saying “The Tigers could never let their face of the franchise just leave on waivers. The PR hit would be too strong.” If that is the case then no claiming team would have been at risk of being stuck with the contract. And it isn’t just the Astros. The Yankees could have claimed him, for instance, because they knew the Astros were interested and doing so would prevent them from having to face Verlander in the ALDS.
Evidently, the Astros would have been fine being stuck with the contract seeing how they took on all but $16m of it and the prospects they gave up are probably worth more than $16m.
Now what did I supposedly lie about?
TX007
The only reason why the Astros didn’t claim earlier in August could’ve been that they wanted to see if he would continue pitching good. And yes, you have a point, I agree that those 3 prospects would have to be worth more than $16M to them but might be blocked in the majors.
In all, I think it was a fair deal for both sides. I just don’t know how the clubhouse would feel since Verlander’s top preference wasn’t the Astros. That’s why he waited on the Cubs until the last minute to decide. Maybe he felt pressured by Tigers’ front office to waive his clause. If he pitches lights out and doesn’t win the WS he could opt out.
(And yes, the collective bargaining agreement automatically gives him that right to opt out after this or next year since he waived his no trade clause) Per Morossi.
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
Yeah if I’m the Yankees I would have thrown in a claim just to block the Astros from trading for him. People on here keep saying the Astros wouldn’t have let him leave on waivers and even if they did it’s not like the Yankees can’t afford him. They had plenty of incentive to block the Astros from trading for him. It’s not like they did so well the last time they faced him in the postseason.
start_wearing_purple
Still busy being stunned.
start_wearing_purple
Ok, the stunned part is slightly over… slightly.
1) To Astros and Tigers fans, who won this? I simply don’t know the Astros farm enough to weigh in.
2) Anyone else feel like Verlander was one of the only players in this day and age that they thought had a potential to wear only one uniform?
pseudostats
I think Mike Ilitch is rolling over in his grave. Mike I wanted stars on his teams (Tigers and Wings) and rewarded loyalty. Rebuilding? Sure, but JV would have been part of it and yes, a lifelong Tiger.
start_wearing_purple
Ilitch was a different kind of owner in a day and age where Loria and Mccourt were some of the most known names. He was a guy who cared about his teams AND city. I don’t root for the Tigers but I do tip my hat to the man. The Rosa Parks story alone makes me feel a civic pride from the man. May he rest in peace and not be rolling in his grave.
detroitdave84
AA must be commended on both very hard deals and basically gave this organization a chance at respect again by 2020. Tiger’s will get two top 5 draft picks in 2018 & 2019 so say hello to 3 Rule 5 picks for next year. Bye to VMART, Sanchez, Rondon & Kinsler next. Castellanos might be gone too.
jleve618
Meh, I’ve liked Indians Nats all year and still do. Watch the indians starters all break their hands on toys and the nats blow it in the first round again now I said something. Still at least happy for the stros though, kuechel was pissed at the previous deadline, this should sate him.
SundownDevil
So truly bizarre. No idea why Verlander and (Kate) Upton would approve a trade to Houston of all places. It’s recovering from a flood, and she’s not going to be getting any roles there. He should have rode it out in Detroit the rest of the year and said “Dodgers or bust” this offseason. Maybe things aren’t going well between them? Because she certainly had just as much of a say as he did in this.
Steve Lawrence
He makes 28 mil a year and I’m sure she makes millions. They could buy their own plane and travel wherever they want. Houston is a huge market. They’ll be fine.
Cam
I think you’re overestimating just how much time Kate Upton will spend in Houston. She has a career – I doubt she’s a homebody.
stymeedone
And how much time do you think she was spending in Detroit?
tigerfan1968
Good move by the Tigers and Astros. Fair to both teams.
Adios pelota!
Good return for the Tigers I thought they would get less in my opinion…
On a side note this is the first time a supermodel has been mentioned in a an article that I can remember
Sid Bream
I like Houston, but they’re still not going to win the World Series with this trade or with their roster. The bullpen has big holes in it and that’s something that needs major attention. Furthermore, they got rid of Aoki and now signed Maybin, a player with a lower batting average and a lower OPS. Aoki is a better player.
tsolid 2
Oh man! You figured it out! Aoki is the MISSING piece to the Astros winning the World Series! Maybin’s 29sb’s had absolutely NOTHIN to do with that trade
Sid Bream
@tsolid I didn’t talk about stolen bases, did I? nor did I say Aoki was the key to a WS win, I pointed out that he’s a better player than Maybin which is supported by career stats. Furthermore, let’s see how many bags Maybin can swipe when the pressure is on, but I suppose he can run for Beltran, McCann, Gattis, Gurriel, and yes he’s probably the better baserunner, and maybe defender, but that’s all.
Mr Pike
So the Tigers traded Justin Upton and Verlander for four guys who could bust or be average to below average major league players. These are fill in types, nothing you build around.
Any savings, after the revenue drop, is going into scouting, analytics and minor league facility upgrades.
It’s going to be a brutal 10 years at least.
stymeedone
Those 4 prospects, like any prospects, could bust, become below average to average, or could be All Stars. Way to be a glass is empty guy.
Mr Pike
Check the odds on each of those outcomes. We gave up two All Stars for lottery tickets. We should have built around them instead.
stymeedone
I agree the odds are against the all star result. It doesn’t mean it can’t happen. Just for watchability, I am disappointed they traded them. I understand it. I believe they received above average prospects back. Maybe one might be lightning in a bottle. I found it much more fun trading prospects for proven players.
Much more importantly, it’s sure going to be hard to watch the remains of this team. And I LIKED watching Baseball.
mike156
I like the deal for both sides. Risky but fun.
Gwynning's Anal Lover
Other than a nice salary dump, the Tigers ended up with Perez and Rogers. I can see Rogers as a great backup receiver in 2-3 years. I saw Perez pitch and with a few minor adjustments could be in the Tigers rotation as a number 5 starter in 3 years. Let’s see what happens. I don’t remember seeing Daz play so I’m not sure what the Tigers are getting there. At the lower levels, the stats never tell the whole story.
bobbleheadguru
Fair deal for both sides.
Expect a huge drop in season ticket sales for the Tigers… As I mentioned earlier.
Any season ticket holder is smart enough to know that there will be 15,000 empty seats for them to choose from every almost every time they want to go to a game.
stymeedone
I really thought the upcoming TV contract would delay the Tigers rebuild. The timing was right for the team on the field, but this could hurt on the business side, as the team is now unwatchable. With TV revenue being such a large part of a teams income, this could have devastating effect on the willingness of a network to pay up.
bobbleheadguru
Brilliant point. Also, it is unlikely this team gets sold. Revenue is much more important than costs with MLB team valuation.
JKB 2
Terrible post. The Tigers were an old aging team going nowhere. That does not scream bug TV contract
Dookie Howser, MD
Any accountants here? Wondering how much more of his money Verlander will keep now that he is playing half of his games in Texas where there is no income tax. I am kind of expecting Verlander to make a sizable donation to the recovery efforts to ingratiate himself to his new fans, and think he could still more than break even on this deal.
natsrockbryce1
Smart by astros manger
pepesilvia
Wait a minute here last night you guys said the trade failed. A friend if mine bet me 5 dollars this morning it happened and I jumped on it. Who is going to be responsible for the money I lost?
Dookie Howser, MD
Justin Verlander.
Phillies2017
I was wrong. I was among the people who doubted the Tigers would be able to get this kind of return.
This is a mutually beneficial deal.
Drewnasty
“It will be tempting for some Astros fans to see Verlander as something of a savior. He is one of the game’s highest-profile players — due not only to his excellence, but also his relationship with super-model Kate Upton — and the team has struggled of late even as it comfortably paces the AL West.”
What the f**k is this trash? Do they have fiance hotness in his pitching line with his ERA and FIP? GTFO of here with this nonsense and learn how to actually write.
leprechaun
Theo made a gigantic mistake with the Wilson trade back in July the guy has been worse then terrible. He would have been much better off using Candalaria to be headliner for Verlander. Wilson has yet to pitch a perfect inning for the Cubs and it’s beyond me how he was so good in Detroit
Kayrall
He’s been great as of late. He literally pitched a perfect inning less than 12 hours ago (one that included 3 strikeouts.) Do your homework before you post.
HubcapDiamondStarHalo
2017: the infamous “Purging of the Justins” in Detroit. Both are now just out.
bobbleheadguru
1. Justin Verlander
2. Justin Upton
3. Justin Wilson
I count THREE.
HubcapDiamondStarHalo
Yipes, I forgot about that one!
All Justins Matter.
Bluesman
A triumvirate of Justins!
TX007
Literally two Justin Uptons traded in one day by the same team.
jd396
The Twins once had the bases loaded exclusively with Jasons.
draushaus
Boo! Detroit should have kept him.
slider32
Here comes Houston, Katy bar the door!
TX007
Two Justin Uptons traded in the same day by the same team. Would that be a first?
TomBradyrings
Well done Tigers. I think they don’t have a top 10 farm, but maybe a top 15? There rebuild just started. They still have another 3 years to draft and hit the international market. It was a big victory for the Tigers to get some value out of Verlander who at one time looked like his contract was gonna be albatross. Credit to them for getting value there. They didn’t have a Sale, Quintana, or Eaton to trade like the White Sox did, but they did a good job of getting some value for what they had left to deal.
alexgordonbeckham
Yeah they’re pretty much going to have to try to sign guys to sign-and flip in July type contracts over the next few years along with dealing Fulmer. It won’t go nearly as quick as this White Sox one.
TX007
It would be a massive overpay if Verlander does the unthinkable and decides to opt out this year, especially if they don’t win the WS. The chances are low but still possible. Since he and his wife are worth tons.
Let’s say he thinks he could get 3 year deal for $60M from the Cubs or Dodgers with incentives or a vesting option for an additional year. I think he would be tempted.
(And yes he can opt out after this year or the one after. This according to the new baseball bargaining agreement per Morossi)
bobbleheadguru
There is no opt out in his contract. So they have him for 2 or 3 years.
TX007
Jon Morosi: According to the collective bargaining agreement, Verlander will be able to add an opt-out clause to his contract if he agrees to waive his no-trade rights. An opt-out would give Verlander a chance to exit the remaining two years and $56MM on his contract after this season or the $28MM left on his deal at the conclusion of the 2018 campaign.
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
I don’t see Verlander foregoing the money he has left on the table.
Then again, based on the Astros giving up what they did to pay him all but $16m of that money, maybe he should.
stymeedone
I think he was speculating that he would negotiate one for waiving his no trade. That didn’t happen.
TX007
It’s what the collective bargaining agreement automatically gives Verlander the option to opt out after this or next season since he waived his no trade clause. He didn’t need to ask or negotiate it.
Mr Pike
The Cardinals never blow it up. Verlander was right. The Tigers didn’t have to either. Everyone but our division rivals will regret this.
Might as well trade Fulmer too. He is going to be an aging vet before this team is as good as it was last year.
bobbleheadguru
Tigers had 3 Top 100 prospects just 2 months ago.
They will likely have about 8 within a year. Their payroll will be cut about about $50MM+ as well.
Mr Pike
Two months ago they had an elite pitcher, one of the best hitters in baseball and a closer.
TomBradyrings
Who are the 8? They have a good system but they aren’t the White Sox. lol.
stymeedone
Yes, who cares about winning a WS when you can have a highly rated (subjective) farm system instead?
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
Cuz apparently the Tigers and White Sox had any chance of winning a World Series between now and like 2020
Pablo
This may seem like a rebuilding move, but this is only the start. Mike Ilitch is out and so will be the millions he dumped into the team. I feel bad for the tigers fans who had an owner that will spend, and will soon see a team spending under $100 million. Sure his money didn’t equal championships, but it sucks being a fan of a team where the owners will only spend if it fits into having a profitable team.
Fans should have some concerns.
TomBradyrings
They won’t have a payroll in the future like they did, so getting younger is their best option.
jd396
It was never really sustainable to begin with. Mike splurged for a ring as an alternative to building the club from the inside. Red Wings kind of ended up in the same boat when the salary cap came along.
HelloItsMe
Tigers will be rebuilding for years to come to replenish their farm system. By then the White Sox will be dominating that division and I can honestly say the Tigers probably won’t compete until 2023-2024
Gogerty
Yeah, ask Braves fans how that has gone.
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
“Sure his money didn’t equal championships”
LouWhitakerHOF
Good Luck Justin Verlander!!!! You will be missed by us Tigers fans. Now go out and win a World Series for the Astros.
jd396
I hope Verlander delivers for the Astros. I didn’t think this would happen, generally because of his age and $$$, and more specifically because they seemed to be at an impasse going back to July. This stuff is fun. I hope the Astros get a deep run this year, and I hope the Tigers come out good in the long run too.
Bruin1012
Great pickup for Houston there starters are now on Par with Boston and Cleveland should make an interesting playoffs. Houston’s bullpen isn’t as good Cleveland or Boston but there offense is better then both should be fun playoffs and won’t hurt to have home field throughout the playoffs.
jso2
That’s like saying your team should win because they got more hits lol it’s about the runs!