The White Sox and Yankees have agreed to a blockbuster deal that will send Todd Frazier, David Robertson and Tommy Kahnle to New York in exchange for outfield prospect Blake Rutherford, left-handed pitching prospect Ian Clarkin, outfield prospect Tito Polo and veteran right-hander Tyler Clippard. The White Sox have formally announced the deal.
While Frazier has been primarily a third baseman in his career, he does bring 740 innings of experience at first base to the table. That’s a clear area of need for the Yankees, who have seen injuries ruin the seasons of Greg Bird and Tyler Austin, while offseason acquisition Chris Carter has been twice designated for assignment and now cut loose back to the open market. The Yankees could deploy Frazier at first base with regularity or put him at third and slide Chase Headley across the diamond, where even his modest production would be an upgrade.
The 31-year-old Frazier is set to hit free agency at season’s end, and while his production this year hasn’t been up to par, he’s turned things on since the the calendar flipped to June. Over his past 37 games, Frazier has batted .234/.361/.508 with nine homers and eight doubles. For a Yankees team that has seen its first basemen bat a collective .208/.295/.391, even Frazier’s overall .207/.328/.432 batting line represents a marked improvement, but if he can sustain his recently increased production, it’ll be a particular boon for manager Joe Girardi’s lineup.
And, in fact, there are plenty of signs that point to some positive regression for Frazier. The slugger has upped his walk rate to a career-high 14.3 percent in 2017 while also cutting his strikeout rate by more than three percent — from 24.5 percent in 2016 to 21.2 percent in 2017. Beyond that, Frazier has cut his infield-fly rate and seen increases in his line-drive and hard-contact rates. As such, it stands to reason that he could continue to improve upon a .214 batting average on balls in play that is currently the second-worst mark among all qualified Major League hitters. Frazier is earning $12MM in 2017, and there’s about $4.92MM of that sum remaining on his contract.
[Related: Updated New York Yankees depth chart and Chicago White Sox depth chart]
Robertson, of course, is a known commodity to the Yankees. The righty spent the first seven years of his career in the Bronx, working to an excellent 2.81 ERA with 12.0 K/9 against 3.8 BB/9. Most of his career in New York was spent setting up for future Hall of Famer Mariano Rivera, but Robertson thrived in the ninth-inning spotlight in his final season with the Yanks (following Rivera’s retirement), setting him up to sign a four-year, $46MM contract that was at the time one of the five largest contracts ever inked by a reliever.
Now 32 years of age, Robertson is halfway through the third year of that contract and is in the midst of his best season with the Sox. Through 33 1/3 innings on Chicago’s South Side, Robertson has worked to a 2.70 earned run average with 12.7 K/9, 3.0 BB/9 and an even 40.0 percent ground-ball rate. Like Frazier, Robertson is still owed $4.92MM of a $12MM salary this season. He, however, is signed through next year and is set to earn $13MM in 2018.
As for Kahnle, the 27-year-old was also once property of the Yankees, having risen through their minor league ranks before eventually making his big league debut in Colorado. The flamethrowing righty has long displayed a propensity for missing bats, but he’s taken that skill to new heights in 2017 while also dramatically slashing his walk rate. Through 36 innings in 2017, Kahnle has posted a ridiculous 15.0 K/9 rate to go along with a 41.1 percent grounder rate. The resulting 2.50 ERA looks impressive on its own, but metrics like FIP (1.47), xFIP (1.63) and SIERA (1.62) all feel that he may actually be unfortunate to be sporting an ERA even that high.
Further adding to Kahnle’s value is that he very much comes with long-term potential. If this proves to be a breakout rather than an aberration, he’d be controllable through the 2020 season via the arbitration process. Kahnle entered the year with just over two years of big league service time, so he’ll wrap up the 2017 campaign with three-plus years of service and be arbitration-eligible for the first time.
Adding Robertson and Kahnle to a bullpen that already features both Aroldis Chapman and Dellin Betances gives the Yankees a powerhouse relief corps to work with not only in 2017 but also through at least 2018, after which Robertson will be eligible for free agency. That group will be joined by an excellent multi-inning weapon in the form of Adam Warren as well as 26-year-old Chad Green, who is in the midst of his own breakout season — one that closely resembles that of Kahnle (1.75 ERA, 12.3 K/9, 2.5 BB/9 in 36 innings). Chasen Shreve is in the midst of a solid season and seems likely to stick as a left-handed option.
Clippard’s inclusion in this deal is primarily a means of offsetting some of the salary that the Yankees are taking on. Signed to a two-year, $12.25MM deal prior to the start of the 2016 season (by the D-backs), Clippard was a solid midseason pickup for New York last year but has struggled to a 4.95 ERA this year thanks to a recent spike in his home run rate. He’s still owed about $2.5MM of this season’s $6.125MM salary, so his inclusion will negate about a quarter of the $9.85MM that the Yankees are adding to their 2017 payroll in acquiring Frazier and Robertson. He’ll also give the ChiSox a veteran option at the back of a very inexperienced bullpen.
Clippard’s inclusion may have helped sway the Yankees into parting with a bit more in a what is essentially a three-player package that is headlined by Rutherford. The 20-year-old Rutherford was New York’s first-round pick in 2016 (No. 18 overall) and is off to a .281/.342/.391 start with Class-A Charleston. While those numbers don’t immediately jump out, he ranked as the game’s No. 36 overall prospect on Baseball America’s midseason update less than two weeks ago.
Rutherford entered the year as MLB.com’s No. 30 overall prospect, though his unspectacular start to the season may well cause that ranking to dip a bit. (He did not, for instance, rank on the midseason Top 50s of ESPN’s Keith Law or Baseball Prospectus.) Jim Callis and Jonathan Mayo noted that he has the potential to hit for average and power, though their report notes that he’s likely to end up in an outfield corner — probably left field due to an arm that is more average than great.
The Yankees dealt from an area of depth in moving Rutherford, as Aaron Judge has cemented himself in right field, while Clint Frazier is doing his best to cement himself as a big leaguer right now. Beyond that, Aaron Hicks is controlled through 2019, Jacoby Ellsbury and Brett Gardner both remain under contract, and the team is obviously hoping for a full recovery from Dustin Fowler, who suffered a severe knee injury in his MLB debut.
Clarkin, meanwhile, ranked 19th in a stacked Yankees farm system this winter, per Callis and Mayo, while ESPN’s Keith Law had him 13th. peg him as a possible mid-rotation starter if all goes according to plan, praising a fastball that sits 90-93 mph and reaches 95 mph. Clarkin commands the pitch well, and Baseball America gives him a chance to have an above-average curveball. He’s repeating Class-A Advanced and has impressed with a 2.61 ERA, 7.1 K/9, 3.1 BB/9 and a 53.7 percent ground-ball rate. With 175 1/3 innings under his belt in High-A, the former first-round pick (No. 33 overall, 2013) could conceivably be in line for a promotion to Double-A this summer.
Polo, 22, is hitting .298/.358/.446 with five homers, 13 doubles, seven triples and 25 steals through 316 plate appearances between Class-A Advanced and Double-A this season. The former Pirates farmhand went to the Yankees as part of last season’s Ivan Nova trade with Pittsburgh but didn’t crack the team’s top 30 prospects this offseason.
Bruce Levine of CBS Chicago first tweeted that the Yankees were the “closest” team to landing this trio. Jon Heyman of FanRag Sports said a deal was “very close” (on Twitter). USA Today’s Bob Nightengale reported that Rutherford was the headliner (on Twitter). Joel Sherman of the New York Post reported that Clarkin was in the deal (Twitter link). MLB.com’s Mark Feinsand reported that the White Sox would take back Clippard and his contract (also via Twitter). Sherman added that there was no additional cash changing hands. Levine tweeted that there was a fourth player in the deal.
Photos courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
sportsfan25
Wow. Great deal for both teams.
echointhecaves
Seems pretty underwhelming from the White Sox’s POV. Rutherford’s a decent prospect, more tools than production so far. Same with Clarkin and Polo, to lesser degrees.
For Robertson and Frazier this is a fine deal. Putting Kahnle in the deal is nuts. Nuts nuts nuts. He’s pitching excellently, and with 3.5 years of control he’s probably worth more than Rutherford, by himself.
Great trade for the Yanks. They can flip Kahnle in 1.5 years for the same prospect haul they just gave up.
tomsox
I honestly think they sold high on Kahnle. Maybe it was worth it to hold on and find out, but guys have just been sitting on his fastball lately and smoking it (though right at guys). The numbers are incredible (mostly due to an unbelievable April and May), but I think he’s in for a big time regression in the second half.
echointhecaves
I checked his stats, and you could be right. Still, though, this seems like–at best–a fair return for the Chisox.
KnicksFanCavsFan
Keep in mind that Kahnle was drafted by the Yanks and in their system for his first 4 years. I remember him well. He dominated in the minors and his one issue was too many walks. Yanks didn’t protect him in the Rule V. It seem he figured that out.
As far as the splits with this season, you’re correct in that he had an unbelievable April and May holding opponents to a bat avg/obp in the low .100s. In June it jumped to .300 but he only allowed 2 doubles and still kept his walks very low (2). In July in 17 games he’s allowed 1 3b and a hr. I’m not too worried about that. He’s not getting blasted. What does impress me is that since June 1st his walk/ko is an amazingly low 2 walks and 21 strikeouts.
I think he’s legit and the Yanks have shown the ability to draft power arms in late rounds and turn them into great bullpen assets. They did it with David Robertson (17th rnd), Mark Melancon (9th), Tyler Clippard (9th), Betances (8th) and Kahnle (5th).
adski
ya, have to agree, two high performing arms and a power bat.. I couldnt believe with all the names from the white sox they didnt get at least torres or frazier..in the deal.
bull pen pieces, especially those with a track record (Robertson) and those with nuber and years of control (Kahnle) should have been bringing back a similar package on their own.
Sox must really like someone they are getting back
Bungalows
Yea the 23 million they’re giving the yanks
chisoxfan87
I agree. I would’ve expected a better return given the (mostly on-paper) talent the Sox are giving up, but, then again, the Yankees likely only had to offer more than the Red Sox. I don’t remember hearing much about other teams being interested in Frazier and Robertson.
Cuso
So long B-Ruth. Good luck…
mvpetro
Nooooo not Tito
bronxbombers
Lmaooo
RiverCatsFilms
Great deal
MB923
A win win trade by 2 GMs who most would agree know what they are doing here.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Win-win? You must mean the Yankees won twice. Rutherford has slipped, Clippard has no point to him when the Sox are trying to lose all the games they can (unless they flip him immediately), and I’ve never heard of the other two. What exactly did the Sox win here?
rct
Clippard was to offset salary. It says it right in the post. Further, there’s still time before the deadline. He could be traded again (not for anything special, obviously).
MLB.com currently has Rutherford as the White Sox 6th best prospect, with guys like Moncada, Giolito, and Jimenez ahead of him. Clarkin is their 18th now.
White Sox did good.
tomsox
A couple of things were clear from Hahn’s press conference:
1. They wanted another high caliber prospect. Rutherford is 20 years old, but he is that. We will see the same ups and downs with Jimenez and Robert….they’re young, you have to live with it.
2. They felt they needed to package players together in order to make this happen. Which means, none of these three guys alone were getting offers that were worth much of anything.
We can’t compare every trade to the Sale, Quintana, and Eaton trades. Those were three great, cost-controlled players. The Sox got a really good, albeit young outfielder and a pitcher with a ton of talent but tons of health problems.. They made out fine.
rmullig2
If they are trying to lose games then getting Clippard makes a great deal of sense.
petfoodfella
lol, @ rmullig2.
KnicksFanCavsFan
Let’s not revise history. How has Rutherford slipped?
hyraxwithaflamethrower
From the article: “Rutherford entered the year as MLB.com’s No. 30 overall prospect, though his unspectacular start to the season may well cause that ranking to dip a bit. (He did not, for instance, rank on the midseason Top 50s of ESPN’s Keith Law or Baseball Prospectus.)” A decrease in ranking sounds like a slip to me.
Priggs89
And he moved up 1 spot in Baseball America’s rankings (13 spots higher than Frazier)… Sooo…
TylerThe bravos fanatic
What a bullpen god Leah lol
BaltimOrioles2016
i think this works well for both teams, because the white sox are stocking up on prospects and yankees are trying to support their playoff hopes
oriolesravenstimberwolves04
You are quite the academic…
No dip Sherlock
Motts7
This turned out to be a great deal. Cashman is a boss!!
Priggs89
He is. But Hahn is THE boss.
MB923
Boss A and Boss B lol
joeyuno
Cash is the man, he beat out the sox and is the only GM who has traded with Chicago and not given up all their top prospects and been ripped off in the process- Ala Adam Eaton with the worst trade ever and even Chris Sale who is great but Dombroski ALWAYS over pays. White six having been ripping everyone off, but not Cash!!
Bungalows
Lol the eaton deal wasn’t a ripoff at all, giolito wont live up to his potential eaton is a .290 hitter with elite defense on a very cheap contract
chopper2hopper
Giolito was the 3rd best prospect in that trade. Sooner or later people will realize it
majorflaw
“Adam Eaton with the worst trade ever . . .”
Silliness. Not even competitive with the worst trades ever. This was worse than Cone for Hearn?
Also, the Eaton trade was not a ripoff at all. Unless one is incapable of assigning proper value to having a productive outfielder signed to a relatively cheap contract for the next several years. Giolito, Lopez and Dunning may yet be productive major leaguers. But Eaton is the only one of them who has an already established record of production at the major league level.
Although the Nats are disappointed that Eaton is injured they are not sorry they made the trade.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Adam Eaton wasn’t worth what the white Sox got for him..
Priggs89
Yes, he was.
sngehl01
I don’t understand how anyone thinks this. Giolito’s star has dimmed so much. Hasn’t really gained any traction back since the move to Chicago, either. The dude looks like a bust.
Lopez has a good arm, but is probably destined for the bullpen. Late inning relievers are still (obviously) very valuable, but not like a #3 starter.
Dunning has potential, but was a lot further away and not super highly regarded.
Eaton is good for 15 hr/15 sb and some real solid defense. Very controllable and cheap, too. Guy’s gonna hit .280-.290+ at the top of that lineup, give you a .360+ OBP, score 100 and drive in a respectable amount for a leadoff guy. Plus, going L/R/L/R at the top of their lineup has some value, as well.
He was well worth what was received, and one could argue he should have fetched more. The knee injury this year is gonna mask just how good of a player the Nats got, but the guy was on fire before going down. Hopefully he returns to the player he was.
Pilzbrydroboy
Its funny how everyone here thinks they have any knowledge of the players the whitesox have traded for. LOPEZ IS TEARING UP THE MINORS AND GIOLITO HAS SHOWN ACE POTENTIAL. giolito had a no hitter this year and a couple 10k games. KEEP HATING. Its not gonna change the fact the Sox are looking very promising. PLUS are pitching coach is the best in the game. DANE DUNNING IS LOOKING LIKE A STEAL FOR THE SOX
Pilzbrydroboy
What did the white sox need with a 29 year old outfielder whos got an ACL tear…. He is what hes is.
Pilzbrydroboy
He wasnt helping the sox win a championship and hes not helping the Nats… Sox easily won the trade
Pilzbrydroboy
Kahnle was a no body until he played with the Whitesox. The same can be said about many other pitchers who came thru the White sox organization. I can guarantee that Don cooper(pitching coach). Has alot to do with it. Hes regarded as the best in the game. If any of the pitching prospects in baseball have a chance to be great. Its definetely the ones in the Sox orgainzation. Don Cooper is a wizard. Sale had praised Don Cooper for what he has taught him. The same can be said for Q
Kelly Wunsch N' Munch
I couldn’t be more of a White Sox fan! Yet perhaps you should chill on the “best pitching coach” in baseball. He’s overrated honestly in my opinion. Perhaps the success of Sale, and Quintana is more of an attribute to their talent as opposed to “the greatness” of Cooper!? He’s far from infallible. I don’t hate the guy. However I do think there’s quite a few that are easily comparable, if not superior.
Priggs89
You can make that claim about pretty much any pitching coach… They can only do so much with the talent they are given.
Pilzbrydroboy
Alot of pitchers praise don cooper. Pitchers having down years have been known to sign with sox to work with don cooper. Sorry if i affended you. Theres alot of fans SALTY AF these days. You sound like one of them
justinept
Cash is also the only one not to get a 4 WAR player in return. Which light explain why he gave up the least…
petfoodfella
Eaton trade doesn’t even sniff the shorts of :
Shelby Miller
Someone no one remembers
Dansby Swanson
Ender
Aaron Blair
a1544
You’re the man cashman!
koz16
Absolutely hate this trade for the Yankees. If you deal Blake go get a controllable SP. Trade a couple of other guys for Kahnle. Frazier? Forget it. He’s been terrible for a while now.
MB923
“Frazier? Forget it. He’s been terrible for a while now”
1 – He’s actually been better lately
2 – Tyler Clippard has also been terrible for awhile.
Priggs89
Frazier has been absolutely raking since June. Even if you want to look at the entire season, his road OPS is shockingly high compared to his home OPS (like .920 vs .580 for the season). He’s going to be a solid pickup.
chevyheston
“Absolutely raking?” He has 2 RBIs in his last 27 at-bats. and is hitting .167.
On what planet is that “raking,’ let along “absolutely raking?’
Priggs89
The one where he has an .870 OPS since June 2nd. Earth.
nrd1138
He is also on a godawful Sox team. His numbers should improve greatly being on a Yankees team with guys that can get on base in front of him.
antonio bananas
you lost me at “RBI”. If no one is ever on base ahead of him, he won’t get RBIs
hiflew
And if no one knocks you in, then getting on base is pretty useless too. Besides you can get an RBI with no one on base with a solo homer.
It’s not a black or white situation. RBIs aren’t the best stat in the world, but they aren’t useless either. You just have to not assign TOO much value to them. But to ignore the data completely is just foolish.
EndinStealth
Really? Never heard of the solo homerun? Must be new to baseball.
antonio bananas
no they’re actually a completely useless stat. something like 67% of all RBIs are because someone else got on. in other words, 2/3 of the stat is factually dependent on an irrelevant factor.
antonio bananas
so count home runs then? an individual stat that largely depends on others is a garbage stat.
Goop Pooberson
FWIW frazier had 2 at bats with the bases loaded and less than two outs on saturday and didn’t come away with anything. i’m a white sox fan that watches every game, and todd frazier is absolute garbage
thegreatcerealfamine
As a Yankee fan and someone who saw he was a product of Great American Ballpark..you are so right!
stymeedone
So…are you saying 33% of RBIs are from solo HRs? If you can’t hit when runners are on base, that’s a telling stat.
antonio bananas
33% percent or somewhere around that number of RBIs come from knocking some yourself in that doesn’t need to be a solo home . If you had a grand slam that’s for RBIs but three or because other people got on base.
learn the difference between an independent and a dependent variable.
antonio bananas
wow 2 AB! yuge sampl3!
antonio bananas
think about this. Last year there were 5,610 HR. Or 5,610 times someone drove themself in (solo, 2 run, 3 run hr doesnt matter, any home run drives the batter in).
there were 21,744 total runs (RBIs). in other words, 75% of RBIs came from someone other than the hitter getting on base.
it’s an even more garbage stat than I thought. When something realize 75% on something else happening that you’re not trying to measure then it’s a pretty terrible stat
HubcapDiamondStarHalo
In my opinion, a far better stat would be “RBI %.” Divide RBIs by number of men in scoring position when you came to bat, and you have a better barometer as to how clutch a man is. Figuring out the percentage of times a batter was successful in RBI situations adds to it. If a guy has 40 RBIs when there were 60 men in scoring position, that could be considered a lot more valuable than the player with 60 RBIs on 120 RISP…
antonio bananas
clutch is incredibly hard to measure. most attempts show it isn’t a repeatable skill. there are so many variables.
a 2 out, 9th inning RBI off prime mariano rivera is more clutch than a 2 out, 9th inning RBI off a schmuck in a 10-2 gamw. p
HubcapDiamondStarHalo
Absolutely… But at least if you know the percentage of successes, it gives a better idea than just straight up RBIs. I suppose eventually somebody would come up with a weighted scale that tried to include a lot of variables. If I could, I suppose I’d be making more money than I do now! (laughing)
dvmwitt
Hate to tell ya, but not all runs are RBIs
antonio bananas
the vast majority are. bases loaded and you ground into a double play? congrats, RBI despite severely hirting your team. bat 0.000 but fly out every time? congrats, RBIs for you.
dumb stat
antonio bananas
20,124 earned runs (all RBIs). doeesnt really move the needle. only 5,600 times out of 20,000 did an RBI not depend on someo e else.
garbage stat just like pitcher wins and saves. too much dependence on irrelevant, uncontrollable variables.
Just John
“something like 67%” AKA I’m making this up as I go
Bruin1012
That is the part that I don’t understand they need starting pitching and that return would of been close for Gray.
baines03
no, it’s not.
oldschoolfan
Terrible deal. Cashman continues to be awful.
glassml
Cashman absolutely fleeced the Cubs and Rangers a year ago for rental players. Smart overpay by the champs and poor by the Rangers. Cashman continues to build a winner….
dwhitt3
Continues? Did you just stop following baseball last year?
User 2997803866
Cashman continues to be smart. Yankees fan will never be satisfied. Last year’s sell at the deadline was huge for them. Great job this year to buy without giving up any significant pieces for the future.
justinept
Cubs traded a top 5 prospect for a controllable arm plus another top 60 prospect. Rutherford is good, but he’s not on the level of Jimenez. For a controllable guy, he’d have been the second piece next to either Torres or Frazier. You comfortable with that?
jameyc
rutherford was never going to see the field for the yankees,,,,he was blocked and also a few years away. polo was definitely not seeing yankee stadium, clarkin has always been an enigma, and clippard? good riddance. Yanks got a premium set up man, apparently another set up man on his way to being a top guy, and frazier, who’s swing fits yankee stadium well.. what’s not to like? they can’t keep everybody.
joeyuno
Agreed 100%, how many outfield prospects can we have, and clippard blows, he is a great throw in, especially getting Kahnle. And I love that we didn’t get ripped off like everybody else who has traded with the white sox this year. Frazier isn’t the man these days but better than the current first base options by far. What a bullpen we have now!
sam1897
POLO, losing Rutherford will hurt but we have Florial behind him.Clarkin was never considered long term because he is always hurt and we get rid of Clippard. Boy I LOVE this deal.
dodgerfan711
White sox get another top 100 prospect. Their rebuild is going well
Pilzbrydroboy
Another top 50 prospect 🙂
asuchrisc
Do the Yankees flip Robertson for a 1b and a prospect? Like maybe the Nats?
sportsfan25
No. The Yankees are most likely going to use Frazier as their main first base and Robertson will be the 7th inning man for the Yankees to set up Betances and Chapman.
biasisrelitive
highly highly doubtful
justinept
Why would the Bats flip a big leaguer right after getting two relievers from Oakland?
hiflew
The Bats? New nickname or really apt typo?
justinept
Really apt typo
kiwimlbfan
And it clears some of the 40 man log jam…
dwhitt3
Sure it does. Adds 3 guys and takes away 1. So they have to make room for 2 more guys. Not sure that helps. If you’re talking about the offseason, Frazier comes off, but Robertson and Kahnle stay
ABCD
How’s Rutherford’s glove? He’s very young, but bat does not seem special.
chitown311
Another angry Cubs fan. Lol
ABCD
Don’t think it’s a bad deal for either team. The key for the Yanks is Kahnle. Both teams can flip the other relievers if needed.
justinept
Angry about what? The Cubs are fine. The Sox are doing their thing. What’s to be angry about? It’s an honest question if you look at Rutherford’s numbers. They don’t jump out. There’s a reason he’s a top 50 prospect across the board. But if you just look at his stats, you feel like you’re missing something.
koz16
Rutherford just turned 20 and is still a skinny kid. First full season in minors getting used to longer season & travel. Kid has a fantastic swing and is among the league leaders in doubles and will probably have 20 HR power and .290+ BA when he matures. Great kid on and off the field. Tough to see him go.
toby312
Good info to know thanks
chesteraarthur
Asking a question makes someone an “angry cubs fan”? I think you have a complex.
Pilzbrydroboy
Chesterarthur we all know how angry you are that the White sox are hoarding top prospects. You didnt even show your face on here after the Quintanta trade to the cubs
sam1897
I agree, Estevean Florial seem like a better prospect long term, more power, better defense.
Houston We Have A Solution
Lol yankees got desperate. Cue their fans saying rutherford clarkin and polo arent gonna be anything.
bronxbombers
Let’s be real clarkin has been around forever now just as long as judge and can never stay healthy enough to matter. Polo is well polo nothing great. Rutherford had a great first year last year and this year upon moving up has no shown the same power but is still hitting for good average and obp. Still is just turning 20 and has a lot of potential as a natural hitter if he gains weight could be. 24-30 hr guy with .280 -.300 average as his ceiling in LF or RF.
Houston We Have A Solution
Yankees pen has been good this year and they have their pen under team control for a while.
Yankees starting rotation- decent, but just loss Pineda and is going to need help soon.
Clearly, if you want to compete this year trading a valuable trade chip like Rutherford for Robertson and Kahnle and Frazier made more sense than including him in a package for a cost controlled arm with team control. Neither Robertson or Kahnle are multi innings relievers and don’t help their primary needs- 1B and starters.
And now, if the Yankees do pursue someone like Gray, they have two less trade chips to deal.
Priggs89
I’m sure if the cash man is looking to move Torres+, Hahn will listen on Abreu and one of his bad starters.
tomsox
I have heard absolutely nothing on the trade front regarding Abreu. And the Yankees and Red Sox could both use him. This tells me he is not on the market. Sure, you could overwhelm and put him on the market, but I doubt the Sox are actively listening.
I think they view him as a mentor to Moncada.
Priggs89
Yah, I don’t think Hahn is shopping Abreu at all. If someone came in with a great offer, he would take it. But he’s not actually trying to move Abreu.
dust44
Rutherford should b a good player. Clarkin is hurt a lot. And been reports of a MLB reliever. I’ll miss Rutherford but not Clarkin. If Clarkin could stay healthy he could b at best a #3. But the WSox have a lot better pitching prospects coming then him even at peak health.
wsox05
Yeah but the Sox have a knack for taking those guys and getting them to their peak. Plus they have arguably the best medical staff in the big leagues who know how to keep pitchers healthy.
cwsOverhaul
Like when the Yanks let Q get away. No surprise if Clarkin turns out better than Giolito.
jameyc
its amazing how clueless some fans are,,yes you bringinthereliefpitcher. You do realize what the yankees have done is created the scenario where their starting pitchers only have to go 4 to 6 innings before bringing in a lockdown bullpen. you know what the playoffs are right? with this scenario and the built in days off during the playoffs, the yankees could use this formula, a la the kc royals, to go very far in the playoffs. The team’s starters are still posting a top 10 era, so yeah, cute comment bruh.
Houston We Have A Solution
If your starters are giving 4 innings you will not even come close to getting to the WS. No matter how good your pen is. Kahnle and Robertson don’t pitch multi innings. You definitely seem unaware as to how there is still 5 innings to go in a game if your starter goes 4. And more times than not if your starter is going 4 innings its because you are losing and they aren’t pitching well. Real helpful to have a good pen when you are losing- I guess having that lock down pen to make sure you aren’t losing as badly helps. 4-5 innings LOL your pen will get taxed well before you even reach the playoffs at that rate. You do know what fatigue is right?
Learn 2 baseball kid.
thebighurt619
Man, I really want the Yankees to toss out Sabathia and young pitchers and just watch them get shelled after this comment. Assuming they even get to the playoffs. Judge is fading and won’t be a factor in the 2nd half. The home run derby curse. Kind of like the Madden Curse.
Math&Baseball
> calls someone clueless but doesn’t understand baseball
> seriously thinks the Yankees don’t need SP because their pen is awesome
> gets schooled accordingly
> everybody laughs at Jamey
antonio bananas
you’ve got 2 prospects who are 22 and almost 23 who haven’t mastered even AA yet. then you have a 50FV in rutherford. that’s not desperate at all for several years of solid RP control and your biggest offensive hole.
Priggs89
Rutherford is a 55FV according to Fangraphs, FYI.
antonio bananas
was he upgraded? my bad if not. point is, he’s not a 60+ and there are other OF prospects closer to the bigs.
cheb
You should’ve included Ellsbury.
jh8913
Good deal for both teams
ramonskee
In all seriousness – Rick Hahn has got to be the 2017 GM of the Year.
24TheKid
I haven’t been paying attention to farm systems for awhile, but do the White Sox have a better farm than the Cubs or Astros had?
nrd1138
Last I heard, the Sox prospect pool is close to being ranked the #1 system in MLB
Priggs89
They were being talked about as the potential #1 system after the Q trade. Now this…
justinept
I’ve wondered the same. I know they did a prospect rating two years ago where each prospect was given a 1-100 in reverse order (i.e. #1 prospect was given a 100. #2 prospect was given 99. Etc) Cubs graded out better than any team since 1990.
Maybe the Sox can beat that this year. But keep in mind that not included on that list were Rizzo as well as guys in Torres who is now #3, Jimenez who is now #8, and Happ who was a top 20 guy as well. The uniqueness between the Cubs and Sox was that 1) They had more legit big league talent at the time of that rating (Rizzo, Lester, Arrieta, etc) than the Sox do currently and 2) The Cubs had younger guys in their system that we know became top tier prospects.
skybluesox
Let’s add in a couple of more top draft picks from 2018 and 2019. It still will be quite interesting to compare the two approaches in the end.
The cubs hit on several prospects, a rare event, and that’s why that team is special. There’s a lot to be answered with this rebuild but this sure is exciting and Hahn is hitting hitter than even Wilson Contreras right now.
skybluesox
Hitting hotter
billysbballz
Yes and that wins World Series. What happen to the guy that was crying about prospects not being over valued. Now you sit on here talking about your farm system as if farm systems get trophies! Lol
Cmon guy this is pathetic!
tomsox
You’re comparing the beginning of the White Sox rebuild with the end of the Cubs rebuild. The Sox have little talent on their big league club because they just shipped it all out.
They have a number of guys that will be graduating in the next couple months to two years (Moncada, Lopez, Giolito, Kopech, Collins). And then likely two Top 5 draft picks to go with the guys that will be graduating in a few years (Jimenez, Robert, Rutherford, Hansen, Cease). That’s in addition to the young big league talent that is already there: Rodon, Anderson, Avi Garcia (still putting him there since he just turned 26).
That’s not to say all these guys will pan out, but a better comparison to “two years ago” for the Cubs would be three years from now for the Sox.
24TheKid
And I mean when their farms were at the best points of their rebuilds.
antonio bananas
no. bryant>moncada
white sox farm isn’t better than Atlanta’s right now.
Priggs89
Well that accounts for a grand total of 1 of the prospects…
antonio bananas
no one else > Russell.
schwarber, Baez, Contreras…
again, overtake Atlanta first. ATL not only has top 100s all over, but an insane amount of 40-45 FV depth.
Priggs89
Fangraphs gave Baez and Bryant a 70 FV pre-2014 (70 again for Bryant pre-2015). Yoan Moncada has a 70 FV.
They gave Russell and Schwarber a 60 FV pre-2015. Eloy and Giolito have a 60 FV.
They gave Happ a 55 FV this year. Rutherford, Kopech, and Lopez have a 55 FV.
They gave Contreras a 50 FV pre-2016. Collins, Fulmer, and Burdi have a 50 FV.
So yes, they have plenty of guys rated equally or better than the guys you listed. And all of these guys are in the Sox system RIGHT NOW. I even picked your guys from different years based on when their value was the highest. If I wanted to do that with Sox players, I could’ve added Cease (45 this year after being a 55 last year), Giolito pre-2015 when he was a 65, etc. But I only wanted to use this year’s numbers since the OP was talking about their current system.
ramonskee
Not sure I get how Atlanta has a better system… because they have 1 more top 100 prospect? You can definitely say that, but they have no Top 5 (Sox have 2), 1 in Top 20 (Sox have 3), and a majority of their Top 100 are in the 40-80 range (which fluctuates a lot – point being that a 1 of 2 of those guys might completely fall out of the Top 100 by the end of the year).
Additionally, the Sox may have 1 less Top 100 but the quality of their 8 is better than Atlanta’s 9. Below is a list of where each team’s Top 100 prospects rank and the average ranking of those players (I used BA’s list from 7/7/17):
Sox (8): 1*, 5, 20, 36, 45, 59, 75, 83
Avg: 40.5
Braves (9): 10, 23, 25, 33, 41, 42*, 55, 72, 76
Avg: 41.9
* = currently in the Majors
antonio bananas
look beyond the top 100 and ATLs top 10. ATL is loaded with 40 and 45 FVs. on a top-end argument, tbet are absolutely on par. however, ChiSox do not yet have the depth ATL has.
Houston We Have A Solution
He literally traded for 6 starters- Kopesch, Giolito, Lopez, Cease, Clarkin, Dunning, filled the OF Jimenez, Rutherford, Robert all in 1 season. GM of the year indeed. The White Sox, if all goes well, will be a force soon.
Priggs89
And hopefully added their 2B and 3B of the future, Moncada and Burger. A lot needs to go right, but man, this has been fun.
nrd1138
I have infinitely more faith in Hahn than I have had with Klown Kenny for the past 17 odd years. I love the Sox got a WS win in 05, but a lot of that was also luck IMO. What Hahn has done is rebuild a farm system but many of these guys will not be ready, if they pan out, for a couple more years. However, if this team is competing for a WS in 2-3 years and can be competitive for about 5-6 years I think many fans will be happy. This also excludes the likelihood the Sox make FA acquisitions when most of the team is ready in a few years. So thing I think are looking up for the Sox.
skybluesox
Agreed
antonio bananas
reward him for doing the obvious? dont get me wrong, he’s done well, but it’s not hard when you have Sale, Quintana, Robertson, Frazier, Kanhle, etc to trade.
what about Arizona’s turn around and absolute fleecing of detroit? to me that’s more impressive. or even Milwaukees. Thames signing? knebel? or even Colorado.
Sign all the Cubans
Agree on AZ. They picked up JDM in return for actual trash.
The deadline will be interesting.
I Believe We Can Win
The obvious was to trade controlled pieces? Sale had a couple more years, Quintana had a couple more, Robertson has 1 more, Kahnle has 3 more, Eaton had 5 more seasons or something.
No, the obvious wasn’t trade everyone. The White Sox could have literally gone the opposite and gone all in on the season. They had the pieces to be competitive and have received nice seasons from unexpected players like Garcia and Cabrera.
They committed to the rebuild and have netted 7 top 100 prospects this year.
cwsOverhaul
Hahn was instrumental in getting Sale, Quintana and Eaton signed to those wonderful bargain contracts that helped this occur. KW let the farm rot for years, and paid the price with no positional player development.
antonio bananas
it was super obvious. maybe we dont follow the same sites, but places like fangraphs have been suggesting this for years. they had a stars and scrubs roster with no farm. thats an obvious sell position.
justinept
GM of the year is won by putting together a major league roster. Even as a Cubs fan, I love what Hahn has done, but he shouldn’t receive a single vote for assembling a treasure chest of prospects. Right now, the race is between Luhnow and Friedman with third place going to whichever GM outside those two does enough at the deadline to propel their team to the playoffs.
thegreatcerealfamine
Why Luhnow?
antonio bananas
the Astros are the best team in the AL despite pretty much their entire rotation going down.
jameyc
now hope 2 or 3 of them actually pan out,,,you don’t fill seats in MLB stands with a great farm system. prospects are just that, and many more fizzle than rise. what you’re left with now is a lackluster team at the mlb level,,,clarkin has been hurt more than has pitched,,clippard flat out sucks, polo was never seeing yankee stadium, and was a few years away and blocked. stop with all of your nonsense. frazier is actually going to play 1st, and with that short right field porch the hr’s will go up….the yanks now have the best bullpen in baseball which other than starters is the most valuable commodity in the playoffs, which the white sox won’t see for years. please be knowledgable before commenting on another team’s board.
Priggs89
White Sox don’t fill seats in MLB stands anyways.
antonio bananas
if you looked at the top 15 prospects and top 15 free agent signings each year and followed them, you’d be surprised at how often free agents are worse than prospects (at 30-40x the cost).
MB923
That’s a no brainer.
chitown311
LOVE IT. Rick Hahn strikes prospect gold yet again. This guy is unreal
phillyoakman
so, I guess Alonso is an A the rest of the year.
hiflew
Rockies?
julyn82001
“The Boss” type of mega trade….
oldschoolfan
Yankees got fleeced. I’m a die hard Yankees fan. We traded a #3 prospect, clarkin a pitching prospect ranked anywhere from 13-19 having a great year for whitesox cast offs. Frazier is a rental who is not having a good year, Robertson is making serious money that will impact us getting under the cap next year and kanale having a good year but it’s the first good year he’s had. None of these guys will impact us winning a World Series. Trade Rutherford for an impact player. Cashman is awful. He made two great deals for chapman and Miller to teams desperate. Chicago overpaid for chapman but they won World Series so it was worth it. Now it’s cashman who’s desperate. So much for being careful buyers. No way a top 10 prospect should have been in this deal. Awful.
nrd1138
Stop with the ‘fleecing’ talk, it just makes you look ignorant. No one gets fleeced in MLB. GMs have their staff and are GMs for a reason. Bad trades can happen, but all sides are doing their homework (or are incompetent). I’m guessing you are likely a Yankees fan that earlier today was probably preaching about how awesome Cashman is..
I see a bunch of guys that are A ball players. These were not guys destined to make the majors. Could they be good? Sure, but they could also fall flat on their face. The Yankees trade a bunch of maybes with guys with proven track records..
justinept
The DBacks have been fleeced a few times … granted, they did the fleecing today. But bad trades do happen – a lot. Not saying any thing if this deal, but to think a GM isn’t fleeced from time to time is just silly.
oldschoolfan
I am a Yankees fan but have never been a Cashman fan- he made a couple decent moves in his span but overall, I think he’s terrible.
jerseyjohn
Please. Just please. You act like Robertson is Francisco Rodriquez, dude is still in his prime and we have him for 1.5 years. The Yankees just traded 2 closers last year and got more back for both. Yes I know Chapman and Miller are better but not by that much. We also got a very live armed guy just figuring it out and dominating right now and a stopgap 1st/3rd baseman. Rutherford has no where to play and can not stick in center, nothing wrong with getting some talent for him. Clarkin is just as likely to never set foot in the bigs as he is to have an actual career.
xabial
“Yes I know Chapman and Miller are better but not by that much.”
Sorry sure I and many others disagree.
Miller and Chapman helped proper Cleveland /Cubs into WS..
So I respectfully… disagree… by a lot.. apples and oranges my friend, Lets wait to find out how these pitchers perform. I’m cautiously optimistic. But not WS optimistic like the Cubs and Indians were when they acquired Chapman and Miller. Bullpen was a concern on this team. Fixed.
But I’m going to have to wait and see how they address SP
jerseyjohn
We also got much better packages from trading Chapman and Miller. D Rob is the next tier down but he comes with 1 other highly useful piece, and a good rental. Giving up a talented but very blocked A baller, a perpetually hurt mid tier pitching prospect and a guy with a 4th outfielder ceiling isn’t exactly a kings ransom.
jerseyjohn
Fair to disagree. Talking apples and oranges, this team isn’t a this year team. I certainly don’t expect D Rob to make them a WS contender. He and Kahnle will look really sweet on the squad next year when I feel the Yankees will have a real chance to make noise. Yes we need starters, we still have tons of chips Mateo, Tyler Wade, Adams, Acevadeo, Abreau, etc if we need to pull off a starter trade.
justinept
Next tier? Hardly. He’s 3rd tier at best. Chapman, Jannsen, Britton, Davis, Miller – all considerably better.
melfman1
No way were they fleeced. You have to realize that Rutherford is almost as likely to be a 4th OF type (ala Ben Gamel, Mason Williams) as he is to be a perennial all-star. He is young & green and while he has a high ceiling, he’s not a sure thing HOF’er like you are making him out to be. The Yanks got 1 1/2 years of control of D-Rob, control of Kahnle through 2020 (huge, if he stays the course), dumped Clippard’s salary and got a fairly solid 1B rental in a position of great need for the rest of the season. This is hardly as one sided a deal as you make it seem.
jameyc
you’re not a fan, stop it already. have a clue man,,your an embarrassment to the real fans.
Gobbysteiner
Good god man, you’re greatly reenforcing the arrogant Yankees fan stereotype all by your self
Priggs89
New York Times headline – “Untouchable Star Traded”
billysbballz
Or better yet, moncada coming up and white Sox nation men suddenly lost there voice from all the screaming. He better be great because you know, Sale!
RunDMC
Who is the White Sox closer now? Swarzak?
Bruin1012
Who cares they aren’t playing to win this year they are playing for the best pick possible in next draft.
Bleeding Blue&Orange
Cheap saves in fantasy…
RunDMC
If you can figure out who…
Priggs89
Probably… for the next week. I don’t think Hahn is done…
echointhecaves
Until he’s traded, yeah
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Tito Polo.and Stephen Tarpley for Ivan Nova was a pretty good trade.
xabial
“The lefty-swinging Rutherford is rated as the No. 36 prospect in the game by Baseball America. He’s hitting .281 with two homers, 30 RBIs and a .733 OPS in 71 at low Class-A.”
Nearly 300 plate appearances in Low- A and has 2 HR —
Probably the only concern, which isn’t bad considering I have no qualms about any other one of his hitting tools, and the kid’s still only 20! But he needed time, and years of development to find out–for a position Yankees have him blocked at for the foreseeable future
If Yankees didn’t have an embarrassment of riches from the OF position (prospects included) they wouldn’t have made this trade. I really wish he used Rutherford for a SP, even one like Sonny Gray or Cole but now you have to face the reality of this market, Yankee fans. Now the bar has been set for these two SP. and they should draw a bigger package than the number 30 prospect in baseball (a very impressive number, don’t get me wrong)
Rutherford is a long time away from the Majors. He could be better than Frazier. Or he could flame out. Such is the story of prospects. But he still has value, for teams to find out based on his insane CF potential. I wish we could’ve got a little more than this, but this trade needs 3 years to know who wins, (unless Yanks magically win the WS next year)
justinept
Yep. Nailed it. A controllable arm would have come at the cost of Frazier or Torres plus Rutherford.
stretch123
I really think this trade will work out better for the White Sox in the long term. Seems like they got two good prospects. Two years of Robertson, and a controllable bullpen arm in Kanhale is definitely good for the team, but I think they should’ve done better at 1B. I think Justin Bour would’ve been a monster upgrade at 1B and they could’ve gave the Marlins two good prospects.
jameyc
justin bour who has had one good year, this year? stop it already. frazier plays good D and his swing fits yankee stadium.
MB923
Question. Clarkin and Polo would have both been Rule V eligible after 2017. Are they still Rule V eligible or is that no longe the case since they are not with the Yankees anymore?
eze01
Pretty sure they’re still eligible but white sox aren’t in a 40 man crunch right now.
worzelmangel
Still Rule V eligible.
MB923
Thank you.
leprechaun
That was because of Yankees concern with 40 man roster which won’t be a White Sox concern
yankees25
The amount of control Kahnle has makes me wet
melfman1
As much as I hate to see B-Ruth go, I think this is a solid move for the Yanks. Their biggest problem this past month has been blown saves (leading all of MLB this season with 18, last I checked). This gives us a back end of Chapman, D-Rob, Betances, Kahnle, Warren & Green. Not too shabby. It should give Joe much more flexibility and give everyone a little more rest.
Clarkin is a mid-rotation arm at best, Polo was a throw-in on the Nova deal & Clippard has been a BP pitcher for the past month.
Besides, the Yanks only have 3 OF spots. If all pans out according to plan, you’ve got Judge, Frazier & Fowler (or Florial) as your outfield of the future.
dust44
As much as I like Rutherford someone was expendable. The overall package coming back isn’t sexy. The fans want to c a big time prospect bring in a big sexy name. But the Yanks got better for this season and next. And the White Sox r hoping they bring in Rutherford to get better beyond that.
Bruin1012
Congrats to the White Sox no way that the Red Sox were going to match that offer.
Zico
Don’t worry, when the Pirates finally decide to sell, you’ll end up paying more for Josh Harrison in a couple of weeks.
Bruin1012
I think Harrison will cost to much I don’t see the Red Sox getting him.
SF_Giants
Interesting… Yankees now have two position players with the name “Frazier”. Will John Sterling use Client Frazier’s Homerun call for Todd Frazier or come up with one for him separately. Or just refer them as the Frazier brothers even though they aren’t related.
ABCD
Every time I hear a Sterling call I feel bad for the Yankees fans.
jameyc
we love him,,everytime I see schwarbers batting average I feel bad for cubs fans.
Priggs89
BURN
ABCD
October is my revenge.
Gobbysteiner
if your son isn’t in triple A by then
thegreatcerealfamine
And he makes the best sandwiches!
xabial
Lmao Thank you! That made me legitimately lol
mboss
It will be ” the Todd Father”
Freex19
what number will they all wear?
leprechaun
Hahn has done a great job up to this point but with Kahnle in this deal the Yankees got the best of this one by far, not even close.
It’s a terrible trade made by fact he was desperate to unload Robertson after the Nationals didn’t need him anymore.
Plus you can’t have a guy saving games that you want to lose….
Bruin1012
What?
echointhecaves
You’re right, Rutherford isn’t a great return for Kahnle. Pretty underwhelming.
Bruin1012
You guys are cracking me up Rutherford is now your future center fielder. The White Sox need a centerfielder of the future. This was as good of a return as they could possibly of gotten. Rutherford is a gem.
MB923
He could definitely be their future CFer. Or he can flame out. We shall see. Best of luck to the kid. Hope he does well.
billysbballz
I heard he was getting moved to corner but yes I think he could be a cf with his speed.
Pilzbrydroboy
Luis Robert is a true center fielder. White Sox will move Rutherford to the corner. Robert has insane speed
Bruin1012
Honestly what did you think you were getting for Kahnle multiple top 100’s stop it you got a good return as good as could be expected the future looks bright in Chicago both Chicago teams.
justasking
Do the Yankees trade Betances? He is very young. Very Cheap. His upside is significant. The ball pen would still be loaded. He would command a hall of players…..is it crazy to think that way????
echointhecaves
Well, we know what 3.5 years of Kahnle just fetched–about the 30th best prospect in baseball.
What would 1.5 (2.5?) years of Betances fetch? The 100th best prospect? 80th?
justasking
Yet, Betances was named an all star the last 4 years and could close for many teams. I am thinking he might bring more chips to the table. (Yes I realize that the all star team is a popularity contest, but it still helps provide value for a player).
MB923
The pitchers are selected by the coaches/managers. I wouldn’t call it a popularity contest as far as Pitchers go
MB923
Betances has a far better track record than Kahnle. He would definitely get a bigger return than Kahnle.
echointhecaves
Maybe, but Kahnle’s better this year. I suppose it depends on whether Kahnle’s improvement is real, a mirage, or something in-between. I think the only two choices here are real or something in-between, but ymmv.
wreckage
Bullpen *
And haul*
Please learn basics before posting. Otherwise I do agree that this could make Betances expendable. Guy has voiced displeasure in the past. Could be a off-season chip.
A'sfaninUK
No why would they do that?
chopper2hopper
Somewhere billballz anf Chris drogaris are holding each other, petting one another on the head…
hodor 3
I guess the Red Sox are pretty teed now.
jameyc
doubtful. it is what it is. they will be fine,,they could have used Drob though.
Bruin1012
Red Sox aren’t teed once Rutherford was made available the Red Sox couldn’t match without being stupid and trading Devers. It appears Hahn did a good job leveraging and getting a good deal out of the Yankees. Red Sox have the staring pitching and a solid bullpen. Third base is a problem not defensively anymore but offensively. Hope the Red Sox don’t trade for anyone looks like solid relief pitching has a high price again.
ChiSoxCity
What is the deal with the Yankees. They’re always raping teams in trades. Always. I don’t get it. Wasn’t expecting much for Frazier–but Robertson and Kahnle were basically given away for cents on the dollar. What a garbage return, but this always happens in deals with the Yankees.
Bruin1012
What? Lol you are funny that return would be close to netting Gray or might have.
ChiSoxCity
That return would NOT get Gray from the A’s.
Bruin1012
Close very close
Priggs89
Where’s that guy from before the Q trade that was complaining about Hahn waiting too long to trade his best assets? I thought they all had lost too much value this year? Guess he should’ve moved them all in the offseason to get more than Eloy/Rutherford/Cease+.
ducksnort69
Given the positive comments from Yankee fans I feel this is kind of a steal for them. Getting the Sox to take Clippard is a bonus I don’t quite get from the Sox’s perspective. Guess once the Nats finally settled, they had few suitors.
Priggs89
You must’ve missed last week when Rutherford was an untouchable star. Now is the time to downplay his value.
chopper2hopper
Oh yeah. Get ready for it. And all of the offseason Robertson was a washed up bum.
Oh well. Sox got a haul and leveraged Red Sox/Yankees by all accounts. On to bigger and better things.
billysbballz
Yes like no playoffs for another five years. Awesome for you but moncada!!!!!
Your chance to scream with high pitch now!
MB923
Come on Priggs. You know this doesn’t represent all Yankee fans. I can name a lot of dumb things your fellow White Sox fans have said as well.
chopper2hopper
MB, with exception of you and quite possible you, these boards are absolutely littered with NY stupid. It’s been nothing but “untouchable this, untouchable that, no chance!!! None! No chance!!!”
All teams got em, I know it, but these past few months have been hilarious. It’s been real. White Sox business is just about done here. Nothing consequential to move but maybe Abreu and that’s highly unlikely given his leadership and ties to Moncada/Robert.
Good luck Yankees. I sincerely hope the aggressive move pays off and you are rewarded for it.
xabial
I up-voted your comment because you started it off saying “with the exception of you and quite possible you”
You’re a funny guy and I’m a Yankee fan.
chopper2hopper
Thanks. Not my best use of grammar but you got the gist
justasking
No, Rutherford is a very good player. But the Yankees needed to be willing to move him because he is probably 3 years away. If the Yankees were still trotting out Gardner, Ellsbury and the soup du jour at that point, then this would be a dumb trade. However, with Judge, Hicks, Frazier, Fowler (injured), Florial, & McKinney still on the team they can weather this trade to another team. This is a good move for the Yankees.
Plus, if they stink next year, they can trade Robertson……
justasking
Yanks also have Gardner and Ellsbury (unfortunately…….).
yankees25
Im suprised they didnt want another top 100 for that deal
AndyWarpath
With Frazier traded to fill a 1B hole, and Martin Prado injured, seems like the stock of guys like Eduardo Nunez, Jed Lowrie, and Yangervis Solarte are rising.
Pilzbrydroboy
Funny how fans think this is bad for the sox. Not only does this add another top 50 prospect to the farm system. It helps the whitesox lose more games for a top 3 draft pick. Win for the Sox
Pilzbrydroboy
This trade just gave the whitesox. Blake Rutherford. Plus potentially Seth Beer or Singer
justasking
I still think there is a chance Betances gets traded (right type of deal) with the over valuing of relief pitchers in MLB. How bad would the Oakland A’s want him??? He is so young, extremely controllable, and an extreme strike out pitcher. RPers at his age are usually not for sale. But the Yankees now have an extremely deep ballpen, even if they traded him.. Plus he has appeared in 4 all star games (highly subjective criteria I know).
STLCards33
Dumb idea. No reason for it.
justasking
Why is it a dumb idea? The Yank’s pen is over flowing at this point. Why not flip him for more assets? Robertson would be a a great 8th inning guy. Especially since relievers are so overvalued? Plus, there is the whole strained relationship angle over arbitration (played up by the media). This would be the perfect time to see what his value.
El Duderino
I wouldn’t say the media “played up” anything. After winning their arbitration hearing against Betances, Randy Levine called a press conference so he could slam Betances and gloat. The media never baited him to make his “astronaut” comment. It was a classless move.
cky7
Betances would definitely bring in a haul of position player prospects, which the Yankees are overflowing with right now. Yankees need immediate help in the rotation, but they won’t get that from a Betances trade. Can’t see him going anywhere.
everlastingdave
I tend to overvalue prospects, but I can’t do it here. If the next few years of Kahnle are anywhere close to what he’s been this year, the Yankees crushed this trade. If he’s a fluke, I still think they did reasonably.
STLCards33
The nationals suck for not being able to make a deal like this
echointhecaves
What would it have been? Soto + Fedde? Is Rutherford > Soto? < Soto?
The Nats do need bullpen help, but the Chisox could trade them Swarzak and Jennings.
billysbballz
I’m happy for Todd Frazier. Local kid coming home. Excited to see him in pinstripes. I think he should play third over Headley and move Headley into a first base platoon.
After reading that the Yanks had Rutherford in a trade offer for Quintana which was turned down for Cubby offer and then Oakland was scouting him it appears that Cash made it know he was available. Kind of surprised but I guess it makes it easier to accept.
Lastly our bullpen is kick ass I really liked Caleb Smith, Heller, and even Holder but they all will get moved out and Green and Shreve should still be apart of the pen. Maybe Caleb Smith gets a crack at rotation with Mitchell. Cessa should be sent down or dealt.
Lastly I hope we don’t over pay for Gray next!
justasking
Agree about Grey. He is probably one of the best pitching options on the trade market. But is he worth trading the farm away? No. This team is still a 3B & 2 SPers away from making a serious run in the playoffs (at minimum). Gutting the farm for Grey is not worth it He is not Chris Sale (probably the best SPer in baseball).
Pilzbrydroboy
Rutherford is a rare talent who has the chance to hit for plus average and power. He has a smooth left-handed stroke with plenty of bat speed, recognizes pitches well, shows signs of patience and uses the entire field. While he currently employs a line-drive approach, he has big raw power and will tap into it once he adds some loft to his swing.
Rutherford entered pro ball as a solid runner and a center fielder, but he should slow down as he starts to fill out and most scouts believe he’ll wind up on an outfield corner. Source – SB NATION
adski
corner outfielders that can hit are a dime a dozen,, that, that is all the yanks realyl had to give up for two premium bullpen arms and a power bat to play the corner infield.. seems like a steal to me.
Rutherford is 2 years away, best case and maybe he pans out but to me he profiles as corner bat or a 4th outfielder, thats not much to give up considering the return. First time ive been undrwhelmed by a return by Hahn and the WS front offfice
xabial
Stop.. He has CF potential.. Don’t act like it’s written in stone. Everything is premature at this point because of his age (20) and the only reason scouts even speculate he could move to a corner outfield spot is him “filling in” as he grows but as of Right now, he’s a center fielder, and a dam good one too. He’s not a liability by any means. I’m biased but I think he sticks there in the long run. I don’t know what “filling in” means. Sounds like a pseudoscience.
jerseyjohn
You can dream, it’s free. I am in no way denigrating Rutheford’s bat, scouts see him as a .280-.300 hitter with 20-30 homers, that’s great! They also see him as not being a competent or long term answer in CF as a major league player. He isn’t a young Jim Edmonds. You know Clint Frazier also “can” play center and scouts have the exact same knock on him. While young he can do it and be adequate, it is pushing their abilities to expect either of these guys to man center long term in the bigs. Be happy your team got a likely future all star just adjust your expectations to him playing left.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Frazier re-signs with the Yankees. They trade chase headley. Wouldnt be shocked if headley was traded to Oakland in a package for yonder alonso
hojostache
Why would Oakland take Headley?
Cubguy13
Smart move by the Yankees would be to try and flip Robertson to the Nationals for Robles
Priggs89
If that was an option, Hahn would’ve done it already. They could, however, attempt to flip Betances for Robles. I don’t see Washington biting on that offer though.
adski
Seems a pretty light return for the white sox, 2 premium bullpen arms and a power bat (albiet with big holes in his game) for one propect in A ball with some upside, and a couple of lottery tickets.. Good on the yankees in this one! When i saw the multiple names included in the deal, I assumed the yankees were going to have to give at least one of frazier or torres,that they keep both and fill multiple needs is pretty impressive. I hate the yankees and hope this goes down as a disaster but this feels like an absolute steal for them, not to mention it keeps the reds sox looking for help.. I hate the yankees but id still rather they win the red sox so i guess go yanks.. or maybe go rays!
crazysull
Do the Red Sox go out and look to trade for a guy like Moose now?
crazysull
Red Sox trade Ty Buttery to the Mets for Cabrera and move him to 3rd. He has a cheap option for next year that they can pick up if he preforms well in the second half and would be perfect because Deverse shouldn’t be called up until next year after the all star break at the earliest.
Kelly Wunsch N' Munch
This is by far the most underwhelming trade Hahn has made of late. I easily give the Yankees their due. Massive underpay in my opinion on the Yankees part. Polo was a throw in. Clippard is mediocre at best (most likely to offset salary was the reason for his inclusion). Robertson/Frazier should have easily been enough to pry away Rutherford. No reason to lose Kahnle. I assume Cashman just worked over Hahn on this one. Rutherford is a great potential acquisition, don’t get me wrong. Perhaps they can get more out of Clarkin than the “experts” assume? After all, the Yankees basically dropped Quintana, and he pitched magnificently considering what the White Sox gave up for him (nothing). Chris Sale fell to them in the draft because of his cringeworthy mechanics, yet there was little issue over the course of his tenure (let alone that’s one of the reasons Sale is so effective). The Sox have been decent at developing pitching. They’ve easily been one of the worst at developing position players. In summary, all of these high ranked, high ceiling prospects are great and all, but they have yet to prove they can actually develop them into Major League talent. It hurts losing actual big league commodities for a group (albeit an envious one) of maybes. Time will tell. I’ll repeat, as a White Sox fan, I won’t be holding my breath.
ChiSoxCity
Yankees always under pay in trades. Look up their trade history. This is complete BS.
YankeeMan3099
Lol no they don’t teams have always asked for more from the Yankees than other teams thats a fact, why is it BS because in your mind we didn’t give up a top prospect like Clint Frazier or Torres? That would have never happened with this trade sorry. Plus Rutherford was ranked very high this is a good trade for both teams now we can trade for a starter and still have Mateo and others to trade to fill that.
Priggs89
Rutherford was ranked higher than Frazier on Baseball America’s mid season top 100. Just because you know nothing about him doesn’t make this an underpay. He was another great addition for Hahn.
YankeeMan3099
Rutherford is and won’t be as good as Clint Frazier, Rutherford is like 3 or 4 years away from the majors lets not put the blinders on either, also I never said Rutherford was untouchable your boy Billy called him untouchable a few weeks ago.
Priggs89
Extremely debatable according to everything I’ve read about both of them. And I never claimed you said he was untouchable…
Ken M.
I thought the Yankees cut Carter? Why did they trade for the White Sox version of him to replace him? Baby B.Ruth’s future Hall of famer status takes a huge hit today. Kahnle and Robertson going back to NY. Kahnle was sold high on.
the.sophisticant
i concur
tac3
Disclaimer (Not a Yanks fan, but a Baseball fan)
Sounds like this has the potential to be a steal for the Yanks, as it looks right now. I’m not happy about it as a Phillies Phan for 2 reasons. Hoping this doesn’t lower trade values, for the receiving team.
As Yanks fans, I would be weary of your new 3B, or will he play 1b? I’d think most yankee fans would have rather had Joseph, Neshtek, and maybe another piece. I’m sure the phillies were asking more, but not much more.
Crazy, I hope the Yanks didn’t ruin my tradedeadline! Good luck to both teams. WhiteSox’s look like they are rebuilding quickly. Yoan was just called up….
ctguy
Yankees did just fine with this deal. Robertson & Kahnle are good additions to the bullpen & they have Frazier for 2 months to see what he can do with a change of scenery. If they don’t like what he does then they let him walk. As far as Neshek and Joseph…….No thanks Phillies can keep them.
Little Whirl
Tommy Joseph instead of Todd Frazier for the remainder of 2017? Even in a down year so far (for him), Frazier has 18(!) times the bWAR that Joseph has thus far & a considerable track record to lean on. I can see Pat Neshek > David Robertson although I don’t necessarily see the additional year of control on the latter being as cumbersome now that Tyler Clippard has been jettisoned. I think this is a pretty good deal for both sides.
A'sfaninUK
Agreed, I think one more from the Yankees top 10 makes this an even trade, White Sox didn’t get hosed, but could have done better, especially with the cost-controlled Kahnle in the deal and the WS taking on the Clippard contract. Don’t hate it for Chicago but its not an even deal on paper for them.
SirTylerKemp
Rick Hahn is making moves! And by the way nobody knows what other teams were offering so this was obviously the best deal they could make, everyone can agree that Frazier and Robertson had to be traded.
slider32
I always wondered how the Sox didn’t win with the players Hahn got a few year ago. You never know with prospects. Both teams did what they needed to do. I can’t see the players that the Sox picked up being better than the players they had though, Sale and Quintana one two.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
The Sox would be lucky if any of the players they got ended up being as valuable by themselves as Chris Sale. But Sale, Eaton, and Q weren’t traded 1 for 1. The Sox got multiple top prospects for all of them. Some of these guys even have a chance to be as good as Sale for their positions. Plus, it’s not like the Sox were contenders with the guys they gave up. Blowing it up is a risk, but it beats the certainty of mediocrity the team had established.
Priggs89
I can answer that for you – Robin Ventura
No, I don’t think they could’ve contended for a championship any of those years, but they were significantly more talented than the records they kept putting up. Ventura was just an awful manager.
raef715
if the Yanks are making this deal, they have to follow it up and go get a starting pitcher, or else this trade is pointless.
i really liked rutherford in the draft last year, though he was old for a high school kid, but yanks dealing from a position of strength, and other guys they would have had to protect from Rule 5, so i get it from their perspective.
long term, is Moncada a third baseman or second basemen? (sox having drafted Burger this year)
mattgarcia2324
Yankees can still pull of a trade for Gray and Alonso
dobsonel
I’m thinking a package of Bentaces and Mateo with two B level prospects my get Gray and Alonzo. Not sure the Yanks are willing to trade Bentaces but the trade for those 2 controllable late inning guys makes you wonder if this is just part of a bigger move.
A'sfaninUK
Haha nah thats not happening. Gray & Alonso more than likely brings in Torres and 3 other top 20 prospects though.
Little Whirl
Agreed that Dellin Betances isn’t going anywhere right now.
I’d ultimately doubt that New York parts with Gleyber Torres, but I don’t disagree that he’s likely a requisite toward the possibility of adding three plus years of Sonny Gray. I would expect a much less impactful starting pitcher addition.
Priggs89
Not likely.
Quintana, an arguably better pitcher and more valuable asset, just returned the 2 top guys in the Cubs system, including Eloy Jimenez. JD Martinez, a better rental than the rental Alonso, just returned a pile of steaming garbage from a garbage farm system. The only way the A’s are getting Torres (they aren’t) and 3 other top 20 guys from the Yankees system is if they are 18, 19, and 20.
dobsonel
I’m obviously only speculating, but I only mention Bentaces because he is simply more valuable than any Yankee prospect right now eliminating the need to give up so many top 20 prospects. Plus between the haul they got last night mixed with the 3 guys who can top 100 mph the Yanks have stashed in the minors, the risk of parting with Bentaces becomes a bit more acceptable.
markitzero
I would think the play of Fowler (pre-injury) and Florial made it a bit easier to part with Rutherford. Plus Mateo has seen some time in CF as well. If the Yanks keep playing at or below .500 over the next week and a half, wouldn’t it be possible to then trade one or both of Robertson/Kahnle (pending they keep pitching the way they have) for at least a similar package to what the Yanks just gave up?
A'sfaninUK
Its best to not view Fowler as anything right now, heard way too many reports that he could have played his last game. Regardless, Yankees have so many OFers in MLB and in the minors, they’re set for the next bunch of years.
atellis33
This is dumb. Both pitchers are controlled next year and Kahnle is controllable through 2020.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Kahnle’s long control is what makes me not like this deal. If he and Robertson were through next year, I’d be good with it, but he’s come into his own as a pitcher this year and I think they sold him too cheaply given his contract.
Pilzbrydroboy
White Sox looking GREAT ! 10 of the top prospects in the game. Also our 2017 draft pick and NOT TO MENTION… A young Tim Anderson and Carlos Rodon who would both be top prospects right now! And they still have Abreu and Garcia on the Roster! PLUS were looking at a TOP 3 draft pick. And when its all said and done the Sox will have MONEY to sign whatever free agent they want. Just like the cubs did when they signed Lester and Heyward
Pilzbrydroboy
Hahn has already stated that the finishing touches on the rebuild will be signing big time free agents. You better believe Machado and Harper will be in contact. I can see Machado being a fit. Considering half of the white sox roster speaks spanish and the coach. Will just have to seee. I know the haters on here are not gonna like hearing it…. still Salty about the whitesox Having the number one Farm system
raef715
will be interesting to see which of all those young pitchers with plus arms, actually make it as starting pitchers.
Pilzbrydroboy
Im sure half wont pan out. But if anyone can get them to their potential. Its Don cooper. Lucky for the Sox they have one of the best pitching coaches. Who is praised by players all over the league
A'sfaninUK
Like this for the Yankees, the White Sox should have gotten another top 10 prospect guy for it to be fair, especially by taking on the Clippard albatross. Kahnle is nails and Robertson is now a closer who’s pitching the what, 6th inning? Yankees pen is a monster. Rutherford’s been overrated by prospect hounds who apparently think there’s 7 everyday OF roles available on their team.
Pilzbrydroboy
Just Another Fan… are you a scout now? We all know your a SALTY Athletics fan. Ive read your comments in other forums about how you want the Athletics to trade Gray for Eloy Jimenez or Blake Rutherford. Now hes overated lol Athletics are gonna get shafted for gray. Gray will probably get hurt before they trade him…. keep hating. I luv it.. Sox are looking alot better then the Athletics
Pilzbrydroboy
Just Another Fan …i see why your mad tho. You wanted Gray to get traded to the Cubs or Yankees and now your Salty cause the White Sox are the ones making the moves and chances are Gray is gonna be harder to move
CarlosMaysThumb
Clippard is not an albatross for the Sox. He is owed about $2.5 mil for the rest of this year then he is a free agent. That’s less than what is owed individually to both Frazier and Robertson. Instead of just throwing in $ to complete the trade the Sox got a serviceable veteran for an otherwise young and inexperienced bullpen. If he sucks they can release him and be no worse for it.
Priggs89
Do you understand how much money is in baseball right now? You really think $6mil can be considered an “albatross”?
xabial
“Clippard albatross?” look up the definition of albatross. Clippard expires in a few months and was only getting paid $4M for the WHOLE YEAR. Clippard just helps offset Robertson’s salary (who would be considered an albatross if he struggled like Clippard, which he never has)
Clippard’s salary doesn’t even make him an albatross if he played for the Oakland A’s
cspaced25 2
Call me crazy but I look at Frazier as just a bonus upside in this trade. The Yankees can score runs no debating that but they have an MLB “best” 18 games blown by the bullpen!!? The bullpen is now stacked on paper. If this deal fires up Bettances and Chapman to pitch how they normally do, you won’t see them blowing many more games. Frazier is a huge upgrade compared to the nothing they have had from first. Even if he hits .230 to .250 in the 7th -8th spot of this lineup and gets his home rubs that is a HUGE upgrade!
cspaced25 2
Runs not runs lol
Little Whirl
Next to no chance that Todd Frazier bats that low in the lineup, methinks. I’d expect him at 5th-6th, which seems ideal.
bronxbombers
I expect the Yankees go
Gardner
Sanchez
Judge
Holliday
Castro
Didi
Frazier (Todd)
Frazier (Clint)
Headley
Little Whirl
You are probably right about keeping Castro @ 5, but I would be surprised if Frazier doesn’t move Gregorius back. Surprised, not shocked. Nice problem to have, no doubt.
cwsOverhaul
Solid deal for both. Hahn sold high on Kahnle to make this happen to save ownership a lot of money for fellow Sox fans upset about his 3yrs of control. He hasn’t been good in the pros outside a lights out April/May to begin this year. The concern is whether player development staff has improved greatly to turn Rutherford or any position player into a good ballplayer that isn’t close to ready. That incompetence is why they couldn’t build anything close to a playoff team around Sale/Q.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
It’s not just that incompetence. It’s a bad FO signing aging vets, a coach who didn’t know the game (and often seemed like he didn’t care whether they won or lost), and bad scouting when it came to potential bats. They did ok with pitchers, but the scouts were terrible on finding offensive talent for years.
ChiSoxCity
No, player development had nothing to do with Sox not making the playoffs. Their philosophy of drafting arms and spending money on fringe position players made them mediocre at best.
cwsOverhaul
They have drafted a fair number of position players and yes the Mitchells/Hawkins of the world were probably not well scouted, but a lacking coherent sign of offensive philosophy in the minors has been absent to increase their odds of success. Beckham rushed up going back years up til now with free swinging Tim Anderson. Implementing a philosophy at various levels in the minors that has some degree of hitter patience/discipline will be crucial like the Cubs.
vmmercan 2
lol people saying Kahnle has had a good two months when he has a sub 2.65 ERA since the beginning of 2016.
This is a good deal for both sides but Cashman maximized it from his end.
White Sox get one more elite prospect and he’s far away from the majors which doesn’t matter to them much since they’re a few years away from competing anyway.
Yankees got rid of two guys (Clarkin and Polo) they lose in rule 5 this winter for free anyway and then move Rutherford, who’s blocked by Frazier and Judge (he won’t stick in CF) and has 3 ER in A ball at 20 years old.
Rutherford is an immense talent, but far enough away where it isn’t going to be a game changer to the Yankees for moving him. They still have Mateo, Fowler and Florial for CF and their corner OF looks set for the next six years.
And in the process, NY gets two relievers controlled at least one more year and can flip Kahnle, Robertson or Betances to get an elite prospect back if they wanted to this winter or next year or use them to shorten games for their thin rotation. Plus a rental to improve both corners of the infield.
Brilliant move for Cashman, fair move for Hahn, good move for both teams.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Agree with most of what you said, right until flipping Kahnle, Robertson, or Betances for an elite prospect. I guess it depends on what you mean by elite, but if it took two of those three guys and taking on a bad contract to get Rutherford and a few lesser guys, you won’t get a similar return for just one of them. Betances has the most value, but he’s no Chapman.
Bruin1012
Wasn’t counting on Drob at all but yes wanted Frazier thought his swing was taylor made for Fenway. Look I think the White Sox did well in the trade and this helps the Yankees now. I was the one saying that they can’t keep all there outfielders when everyone was saying Rutherford was untouchable during the Q discussion. It sounds like the Yankees wanted Q but were just outbid by the Cubs.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Jimenez would have been a tough headliner to top, that’s for sure. A little surprised the Yankees didn’t offer Frazier and some better prospects than Cease for him, though, considering how much they need rotation help. Cubs paid a lot, but if it gets them back into the playoff picture, they won’t complain.
mike156
As a Yankee fan, I’m a little deflated, because I really like the movement to youth. If these three contribute this year, and help the Yankees make the playoffs, then I can see the justification. But I do wonder about Robertson’s salary and the luxury tax. Could the Yankees flip him in the off-season?
hyraxwithaflamethrower
They could, but what’s the point? I don’t think this move gets done if Robertson was a rental. I think the Yankees want to contend for several years and bolstering their pen is part of it. They still have holes, but I’m guessing they fully intend to keep Robertson through next year. If they do flip him, it won’t be until next year’s trade deadline and then only if they’re not in the running or have a dire need somewhere and don’t want to give up a farm piece to address it.
ChiSoxCity
Why would a Yankees fans be worried about luxury tax?
Tribe 217
Terrible deal for the Yankees. Gave up decent prospects for an average Robertson, overhyped kahnle, and Todd Frazier who can’t hit a beach ball.