The White Sox remain undeterred in seeking to obtain a big haul for sturdy lefty Jose Quintana, according to a report from Jon Heyman of Fan Rag. With three years of affordable control remaining after the current season, the rebuilding organization probably doesn’t need to deal Quintana this summer.
To this point, the team has stood on that notable piece of leverage, continuing to ask for “two very top prospects” in its conversations with interested rivals. The South Siders have pressed the Astros for Francis Martes and Kyle Tucker, while asking the Yankees to headline a deal with either Gleyber Torres or Clint Frazier.
That strategy seemed in danger of backfiring earlier this year, as Quintana stumbled out of the gates. But the 28-year-old has righted the ship of late, perhaps restoring any lost shine.
Quintana has thrown only 104 1/3 frames over 18 starts, putting him shy of a 200-inning pace, though he has yet to exhibit any health issues. (More broadly, durability is one of the lefty’s chief attributes.) His 15.5% K%-BB% is a near-exact match for the numbers he carried over the prior three campaigns. A rise in home runs allowed (1.21 per nine) is perhaps the largest single factor differentiating Quintana’s current campaign from the five strong seasons that came before.
If teams buy into the improved form Quintana has shown since the start of June — 45 strikeouts and just 12 earned runs over forty frames — then perhaps they’ll be willing to meet the steep asking price. Then again, his less-than-dominant form over the course of the current season raises yet more questions about just how hard contenders should push to get him.
For the Astros, Heyman notes, Quintana may not really be as impactful an arm as the team would prefer to acquire. That makes sense: Houston is running off with the AL West and has many quality rotation options, but would love to add a true lock-down starter to the top of its staff.
In fact, the ’Stros have gone so far as to ask the Mets about star righty Jacob deGrom, per the report. (Tom Verducci of SI.com had previously reported some level of interest.) He’d likely be a more impactful addition, though there’s still no reason to think the Mets have any interest in even considering a deal.
As it stands, teams like the Astros and Yankees are continuing to “look around for alternatives,” per the report. But the lack of obviously available pitchers of comparable or better quality — with the exception, it seems, of Sonny Gray — represents another key element of the White Sox’ bargaining position. Just how things will turn out remains to be seen, but to this point the long standoff continues.
Martes and Tucker? just those 2? Done deal. Martes looks bad and Fisher is the next big thing in Houston.
Obviously those two would just be a starting point. Would likely need at least 1-2 prospects from the back half of Houston’s top 10 and maybe a lottery ticket or depth piece or two.
I’d imagine 1 more around 7-12ish and then a low level/rank lottery ticket-type
Martes is only 21, he shows the metrics of being a top of the rotation arm but still needs to develop. Fisher is very close the being MLB ready now, he had a cup of coffee (21 at bats) in the bigs so far and showed a lot of confidence in his abilities. I don’t think Quintana is much of an upgrade over what we already have. Peacock has been a great surprise so far, Fiers has turned his season around, Morton was serviceable prior to his Lat strain, Keuchel & McCullers are two of the top in the AL and McHugh is coming back post AllStar break. We aren’t in desperation mode for a serviceable arm like Q, if they are willing to let go of Fisher & Martes we need not make the same mistakes that cost us big prospects to get Kazmir.
I disagree with your argument that Martes has been bad.. As a matter of fact for coming up the way he has, he’s looked pretty successful. Tucker is going to be knocking balls out of the park for years to come. Neither one of those players will be an easy give. Might make Luhnow feel snakebit in a year or two.
Tucker is a higher rated prospect than Fisher. I think the Astros might do Fisher and Martes among 1-2 others, but they don’t want to trade Tucker.
Once the league adjusts to Fisher his swing and miss will become a very big issue. Relegated to a corner, he is not going to put on an Astros uniform again unless there’s a big injury before the deadline.
Fisher’s K rate in AAA is under 20%, that’ll jump in the Majors, but he’s not a huge strikeout guy like everyone seems to pretend he is. The only time he had a really bad K rate was in AA, and he buoyed it with a 16.5% BB%, so it was obvious he took a more passive approach at the plate. His power and patience will more than offset a slightly above average strikeout rate.
And Musgrove
Ok White Sox fans let’s get the ball rolling. What’s it gonna take?
What team do you root for?
More broadly, a rough template is:
3-for-1 deal…
Top 25 prospect in baseball
Firm Top 100 prospect in baseball
Organization Top 10 prospect
Probably about $54 million in projected surplus value, so the main headliner is extremely important and there’s little flexibility there.
Yankees. So what your saying is Torres,Sheffield,and another top ten maybe Rutherford.
That would be an insane package for the yankees to give up.
You’ve got the general idea. I doubt Yankees move Torres, so Clint Frazier, Blake Rutherford, and Esteven Florial. Something like that. I think it makes a whole lot of sense from both sides as long as Yankees keep Adams, Fowler, and Torres – guys who factor into their near-term plans despite injuries. I think Frazier is the odd man out there.
Some combination of-
One of Frazier/Rutherford +
One of Adams/Mateo/Florial +
One of Abreu/Acevedo/Tate
Not happening Cashman already has said he’s not trading Torres or Frazier I am not trading either of those 2 guys for anyone that’s out there not even for Mike Trout. Let the White Sox trade him to another team we don’t need him that bad I’d rather miss the playoffs and keep all of our young stars for the future thanks but no thanks.
Delusional
I was answering to your scenario,no way would they give up that much. Clint Frazier is the future in left and Joe has shown the willingness to play anyone who’s producing despite their salary. The team that should go after Q is Houston,they have position players in the pipeline blocked by young long term players.
That’s nuts to say you wouldn’t trade them for Trout. WTF
So do the Yankees- Rutherford, Mateo, Florial, Andujar
Pitchers- Adams, Acevedo, Abreu
Hahaha, not even for Mike Trout!! Ok!! <extreme sarcasm
I’m sure if the Angels knocked on Cashman’s door with that offer, he’d make it without even thinking twice.
He’d probably check his calendar to make sure it wasn’t April 1st.
I agree, not even for trout
I would think Rutherford, Sheffield and Dustin Fowler seems about right for Q maybe throw in a lottery ticket youngster. The Yankees are going to have a problem soon, it’s a good problem to have but you are going to have surplus especially in the outfield. You can’t play 6 guys out there and at some point it is going to make sense to send one or two of them for big league help.
When I mean help I mean big league cost controlled pitching.
Didn’t Fowler just blow up his knee?
Yes you are right so scratch Fowler but they have other guys they could put together an attractive package around Rutherford.
That’s soooooo bad for the Yanks you have no idea about the farm system. All theee of those guys could be half the teams in the leagues best prospect!
At least in Frazier abdvrutherford case they would be the best in a majority of teams rankings!
That’s awful for the Yanks!
Good luck White Sox getting a return close to that.
Lol
I would say off this list Andujar and Abreu plus Cave for Quintana and that’s dat!
Take it or cry but that’s best you get. Andujar future 3rd basemen. Abreu could be our best pitching prospect in two years. That’s more then enough for Q! And I wouldn’t even want to do that even though its more fair then the shot you propose. Just go root for your white six and stop trying so hard to trade your ace!
No Rutherford also untouchable! Sheffield lefty starter is close to untouchable! Fowler is hurt.
You are so right everyone in there too 10 is to good for everyone else my point was the Yankees have excess outfielders they can’t play them all the White Sox need outfielders they should be able to match up without touching Frazier or Torres. I forgot though every Yankee prospect is too good for Q. You crack me up who would you offer for Q?
Cost controlling pitching doesn’t matter if the guy can’t win. Quintana, for all his attributes is still not even a .500 pitcher over his career….and I know all the chatter this is going to get regarding metrics that show value other than wins and losses. But those metrics don’t matter if the guy can’t be a big winner given the price tag. His appeal seems to be 200 innings per year and cost controlled future.
Rutherford is the future, and well down the road.
You never know what happens 3-4 years from now which is right about when Rutherford will be knocking on the door.
Dude seriously I just don’t think anyone can get the point across to you still that same tired argument. No one will take anything you say seriously until you get rid of that outdated argument.
I forgot they are all untouchable they aren’t getting a deal done for cost controlled starter like Q or Gray without one of Frazier, Torres or Rutherford just isn’t happening so no reason to go any further. Wow you guys are the same guys that were saying Red Sox fans were being unreasonable about there prospects before DD got there and was willing to trade surplus guys. You guys are hilarious.
LOL.
Billy, your 9th, 10th and a lotto pick? That will get you Shields or Holland. 🙂
not even for Mike trout invalidated your entire post rotfl
W-L are probably one of the most useless stats for a pitcher.
‘I’d rather keep prospects X and Y even in a trade for Mike Trout’.
– said no GM ever
Nobody is untouchable.
My 9th and 10th are most teams 2nd and 3rd!
Lmao
Cmon with the nonsense. Let the GMs decide and not fanboys!
Adam Wainwright is already a 10 game winner. Tanks should give up a huge package for him.
He said organization top 10 prospect and you include Rutherford, a top 40 prospect.
He said organization top 10 prospect and you choose Rutherford, a top 40 prospect.
He isn’t worth that and you should be locked up for criminal intent
White Sox Maintain High Asking Price On Quintana
Well, as someone told me many moons ago when I was looking to buy a car, but they were not willing to come down on price.
You either can wax it or sell it.
Let the White Sox sit on Quintana, let them pay the man. Besides if my Orioles are interested, they can’t afford him anyway, no matter what the price is.
Quintana is already locked up through 2020 on a team friendly deal. The White Sox don’t have to do anything with him if they don’t get what they want.
he’s a #3. The benefit is that he’s locked in at reasonable prices for the next 3 years. And that’s what makes him valuable. But he’s not nearly a valuable as Sale, who’s a #1 (even though there was one last year of control Sale vs Quintana).
Look at his numbers.
I don’t understand how they expect to get 2 top tier players. There aren’t many teams that can afford that let alone are willing to give that up. I expect a package of probably a top 100 prospect and then maybe 1 or 2 more top 20 prospects of the team for Quintana. Example: Ian Anderson, Rio Ruiz, and another mid level prospect (not saying the Braves would trade these people just an example of what I think would go down)
Braves would need to include one of Ozzie Albies or Ronald Acuna to realistically get something done.
CJBoze22 I’d seriously doubt that the White Sox would accept a deal from the Braves without at least one of their top 5 prospects (Acuna, Albies, Allard, Soroka or Maitan). The extremely slim possibility is there though that perhaps the White Sox would take a large package of high quality guys (that would be in many other teams top fives). Perhaps a package along the lines of Ian Anderson, Luis Gohara, Bryse Wilson, Austin Riley, Travis Demeritte, Christian Pache and Brett Cumberland would suffice, but I don’t think that Chicago would like that package since most of them are at least two or three years away.
Why not the Indians gave the Yankees their top two prospects for Miller 1 1/2 years. And Cubs #2 prospect in all of baseball for three months of Chapman. 3 1/2 years of a top starting pitcher is worth for than any reliever not named Mariano Rivera or two top prospects
Maybe the Sox should turn him into a relief pitcher over the next 3 weeks. Judging by what the Yankees got last year and what I’ve seen Padres fans asking for in a Brad Hand trade, that might not be a bad option.
Yes, that was sarcastic.
lol
So judging by what the market dictated last year for two teams that were one big bullpen pitcher away from perhaps being the best the Yankees who are not one pitcher away should give up what they got last year just because it makes you happy? Not happening. W doesn’t put the Yanks in position to be best. Astros and Dodgers or Cubs need him. Start demanding those teams top prospects so we can laugh some more.
I feel like people think every top prospect is going to be the next mike trout…or better. If you’re competing now and have a crowded farm system why not try to bolster the roster? Q isn’t a rental piece. He has a cheap contract and can help a team for at least a couple years. Now is the time to buy. And sell. Hahns not doing his job if he sells him for nothing.
Fans always tend to overvalue their organization’s prospects and do not consider the very real possibility that a prospect will not end up reaching their lofty ceilings.
Cost controlled, proven mlb talent will always come at a premium.
That proposal would be far too light for Quintana. You are overvaluing your prospects and undervaluing a young, cost controlled starting pitcher big time.
They’re on drugs. Torres and Frazier is almost the same amount they got for Chris sale and Jose Q ain’t close to the pitcher that sale is.
Actually they said either Torres or Frazier headline the deal they did not say both therefore the return would be less then what the White Sox got for Sale.
“or” not “and”… reading is your friend
Torres OR Frazier….not AND
No way, the Sox will still have Quintana at the end of the year, nobodys goint to pay that for him.
Notice how all of the leaks are about Hahn being unreasonable?
Remember that when Cashman claims Rutherford, Adams and Florial for Quintana is a victory.
If all the leaks about Hahn being unreasonable, doesn’t that mean it’s other teams trying to make him look less valuable than he is?
If all the leaks are about Hahn being unreasonable, doesn’t that mean it’s other teams trying to make him look less valuable than he is?
“Hahn wants Torres AND Frazier!!””
“Look Yankees Nation, I was able to talk him down to Rutherford, Mateo, Florial!” Now we have Quintana!
“Hahn wants Tucker and Martes!”
“Look Astros Nation, I was able to talk him down to Tucker, Perez, Alvarez and Nova” Now we have Quintana!
I think if Tucker is in the equation it’s a larger no go than Martes… rumors
FYI ironic that yanks cut him and white Sox signed him
That’s awful for Yanks. Rutherford is untouchable pal. Florial maybe close to and Adams is a maybe!
So one out of three for a mid rotation arm!
Not happening buddy….Florial is almost as highly regarded as Rutherford, while Adams is the buy that will be plugged in during the second half.
You White Sox fans are pretty desperate aren’t you to trade this guy.
Eager to see success from this rebuild route like other teams have shown lately is what i’d call it.
I’m not sure I’d say White Sox fans are desperate to trade Quintana, it’s more so that they believe it’s a foregone conclusion and hope Hahn gets a nice return package.
I’m in the boat that says Cashman sits out of the Quintana sweepstakes (or at least doesn’t win/overpay) and I still hope Hahn and Cashman can make a deal for Todd Frazier or a reliever.
McKinney and Wade would both be nice additions to the Sox depth if Cashman was interested in Frazier for a stopgap
Frazier isn’t getting you Wade..We can and will live with Headley.
This has to be trolling, unless you think there are only 30 MLB caliber starting pitchers in baseball. Otherwise there is no way Quintana is a mid rotation arm.
Cash never said they, fake news! You white six fans are saying it’s your victory. In reality you want Rutherford knowing he’s moving quickly and if I’m the Yanks he’s an untouchable also!
Quintana is a proven starter and he’s better then most pitcher in the Yankees division so why wouldnt Yankees trade prospects that you dont know if they are gonna be any good
Well chris sale is not on the market. Im sure the Yankees are thinking they should have made a deal for Sale
Cubs need a leadoff man and a starting pitcher.
Sox give Cubs Engel and Quintana for Happ, Almora, and Jimenez.
You can keep Engel, but Quintana gets you Eloy, Jeimer, Zagunis, and a lottery pick.
And a truckload of sandwiches.
They all suck
How do you know? What kind of sandwiches are they?
Priggs89 we already know that any talk of sandwiches starts and stops with beef. Where is it though?
Zagunas IS a Lottery Pick
Lottery pick is an A level player that we can agree on.
Respectfully,
I decline
I’ll happily keep Engel and strongly consider that package.
I am a Sox fan and never knew where Engel came from but he plays a very impressive CF, gets good reads quickly, very fast and catches everything. Seems to have a quick bat. I can definitely see him turning into to a good offensive player, his D is already there.
Yah, he has been really impressive so far. He was always a speed/defense-first guy coming up and looked like he could be a 4th outfielder type. But his bat has been very surprising to me thus far. If he can keep hitting even close to where he’s at now (more-so before the Colorado series), he can be a legitimate piece for the future. It’s nice watching an outfielder that can actually go track a ball down to help his pitcher (yes, that’s a shot at Melky and Avi).
Sorry we are not moving either Torres or Frazier the White Sox can keep Quintana, I’d rather go get Stroman from the Jays and we could trade Mateo and Sheffield and maybe another piece without having to give up Torres or Frazier and I think Stroman is better than Quintana.
Except he hasn’t been better until this year… And he still has a FIP of 3.88. You may prefer him, but saying he’s better is a little bit of a stretch.
Also, the Blue Jays aren’t going to trade him for Mateo/Sheffield/other junk
My point is that I am not trading Torres or Frazier for anyone and if that means we don’t get anyone then so be it I want to win multiple championships in the future not just a championship for 1 year I’ll pass trading our future for a guy at best is a number 3 starter.
You’re right. Quintana is at best a number 3 starter. Yankees should stay away at all cost.
Prospects can still bust lol. And Quintana is controlled long enough where he an factor into multiple championships
No thanks don’t want Quintana he’s not that great if we didn’t trade our big prospects for Sale then we aren’t trading them for a lesser pitcher sorry not happening.
Debating his ability as what # starter he is , is one thing but his friendly salary for 3+ more years moves him up a notch is his value
And your counting on the fact that all those innings on his arm don’t come back to haunt the team that makes a deal for him. Durability is fleeting also, especially for a pitcher…in fact more so for a pitcher. Calling Dr. Tommy John!!!!!!
A # 3 starter? HA he’d be a #1 on half of these clown staffs. I’d love to hear 20 names better off 60 that have shown to be better with more consistency over the past 5 years. Go! Goofy ass
I know you’re not trading them Chris because you’re not the GM, you’re not the owner What exactly do you do for the Yankees. Are you like George Coztanza for the Yankees
Does Cashman call you for trade advice? I’m honestly curious cause you have said “I am not trading…” multiple times on this post.
Quintana’s FIP is 4.01, since you brought it up.
I’m aware, and that’s proving the point I was making. Clearly Q’s overall numbers are down significantly from what they were over the last 3 years, and he’s STILL not far behind Stroman this year. Outside of this year, he has been better than Stroman… And judging by his last 7 starts, he appears to be back on track.
I would take Stroman over Q in a second
You have a very skewed view of the two players not based in reality then.
No need for the Astros to deal their 1,2 in the farm for a guy who would slot into their #3 spot
Astros make the most sense and really seems like the prospects it would take wouldn’t hurt there future. Quintana along with the other starters they have would make there top 3 starters in Houston a force to be reckoned with in the postseason.
So you wouldn’t trade guys that aren’t going to help you this year for a guy who will help you in the playoffs? Not to mention the next 3 years after? Houston is a lock to make the playoffs but their 1 weakness is SP, he could very well be the difference between not having a ring and having one.
All of the Astros SPs are controlled through next year and beyond. Not really a need.
This guy is not worth any team giving up their top prospects. Especially when you consider his WL record, ERA and injury history
Lol what?
Who are you talking about?
Just for the record, his ERA from 2014-2016 was 3.29, which was 8th best in the entire American League. His 3.19 FIP over that period was 5th best. I guess that’s a decent #3 starter…
Obviously his overall numbers are down so far this year, but if you think teams are going to completely overlook what he has done over the past 3 years and just evaluate him based on his overall numbers this year, you’re crazy. And if you think GM’s are that shortsighted to only look at the most current stats and ignore everything else, I’d be willing to bet they’d put more emphasis on his last 7 starts where he has a 2.70 ERA against a handful of potential playoff teams than his admittedly shaky starts in the beginning of the year. He has clearly fixed whatever was broken.
So as a #3 starter, do you really think that this pitcher is worth the package that your GM is asking for…..he’s asking for the same type of package that netted Chris Sale a true #1 ACE who can win a championship starting 3 games in a 7 game series.
As a #3 starter? No. But I’m also not delusional enough to believe he’s a #3 starter.
At worst he has been a top 1o starter in the American League over the last 4 years, and that’s including this year which had a horrible start. Outside of the rough start this year, you could easily argue he has been a top 5-7 pitcher in the AL over his last 4 years. In that time (including the bad start this year), he has a better ERA, FIP, and fWAR than so-called “aces” like Archer, Stroman, Verlander, Gray, Tanaka, etc. He has also bounced back extremely well after a slow start with a 2.70 ERA since June vs almost all playoff-caliber teams.
A lot of people on here clearly undervalue Quintana, and when comparing him to other “aces,” there’s a VERY clear difference between perception and reality.
And no, I don’t think he’s an ace. I also don’t think any of the previous guys I listed is an ace. Chris Sale is. The only package that the Yankees can offer that would be Chris Sale-like is if they offered both Torres and Frazier, which obviously won’t happen.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
He’s only had 1 double digit win season in his career and they’re asking for 2 top prospects in return? Laughable. Not. going. To Happen. He was linked to my Brewers. And they balked what the Sox wanted in return
Wins. lol.
Q has 65 career ND’s.
You can credit questionable Sox defense and anemic offense over past 4-5 years for his WL record. It was front page news whenever the Sox scored even 1 run for him.
Chris Sale won the Cy Young with the same team behind him…..Quintana isn’t even close.
When did he win the act young ? I must of missed baseball that year. He’s usually top 5
Its Cy Young and I stand corrected….he didn’t win although he has consistently been within the top 6 since 2012.
Huge difference between winning it and finishing top 6 Q was top ten so what. Hendricks was third you rather have him? Arrieta won it you rather him? Porcello won it last year cause he had 22 wins. Go back to 2012 all those pitchers have been in mlb except Hendricks and see who’s been better. You have no point.
Or maybe he runs his pitch count up too early. If he went deeper into games, like TOR pitchers, he might get more wins.
Please stop… every time you mention wins you show your lack of knowledge for the game.
you not smaht
Q or Gray would easily be the number #1 pitcher on that lousy pitching staff. Nelson, Guerra, Garza, Davies are a joke. You are lucky that division is just pitiful.
By lousy you mean the same team (Brewers) with the 7th best ERA in MLB for starters? 13th in IP, 7th in BB, 15th in K . You’re right, that’s lousy. If the NL Central is pitiful then what are the NL East, AL West, AL Central? Sounds like you think there’s 24 pitiful teams in MLB.
Quintana absolutely would be the #1 pitcher on the Brewers. But Gray absolutely would not be. Chase and Nelson have both outperformed him last year and this year. Keep thinking Gray is the same pitcher he was in 2014/2015 though
Wins has nothing to do with any teams trade offer on Q. Everyone but you knows wins means squat
Wins get you paid. Metrics get you excuses why you don’t get paid.
Metrics got Heyward paid
TROLL
I almost had to report you for the stupidity of this comment Fisher. Who has the most IP in all of baseball since his first full season of 2013-today?? Jose Quintana. What injury history are you privy to? Q is a low end #2 high end #3. Any way you want to crunch numbers he is among the best 25-30 pitchers in baseball in his age 28 year. Some team will meet a high price in prospects or he will not be moved. Plain and simple.
Keep him….you guys in Chicago seem desperate to move him….if you think he is that good keep him and make him the cornerstone of the Sox team of the next 5 years!
The Sox aren’t desperate to move him bud. It’s called a rebuild. The White Sox are looking to take valuable assets, which Quintana is definitely one, and they sell them off to teams in contention this year. He’s under control for three years after this probably right around the time they’re hoping to put a contender on the field. So therefore they should look to move him for future assets. Just so you understand how it all works Rocky.
Not desperate to move him. He was not traded last winter when he was on the block. Hahn will wait for the right offer. I like Q and he has many solid attributes-including his contract. We are happy to keep him, but if he gets traded I hope it is to a contender so he can enjoy some success with a good team.
“Injury history”…are you confusing him with Gray? Q has never been on the dl.
This is such a weird situation because of all the team control he has left. I get that there is no pressure to move him because he’s under contract for years, but I can’t help but feel like they’re pricing themselves out of having any potential suitors. A lot of farm systems can’t give them what they want and others won’t be willing to. It seems like rentals might be smarter for teams in the hunt.
Maybe that just means they should hold on to him until next year?
I agree. Quintana is perfect for the Cubs. They are a team that needs controllable, reliable pitchers for the next few years. He could slot into the middle of the rotation and then they could go after a top of the rotation guy.
But the Cubs and Sox don’t play nice together. And the Sox price is too high.
He would slot into the top of the Cubs rotation. Moot point however as the cubs don’t have enough after Jimenez. The Score talked about this during it 5 at 5 this morning.
Not enough after Jimenez? Almora contreras, caratini ,dela Cruz, cease , happ, candelario?
Lol!
Oops you missed that one
I could see a run after Kershaw however and yes, he slides down a notch on that one!
Who would the Mets get in return for deGrom? I think the Mets shouldnt do it, but hypothetically….?
If you are talking Astros: Martes, Musgrove, Tucker/Daz Cameron and Colin Moran.
If yanks continue to flounder. Trade Tanaka and Pinada ,call up Adams . Dodgers looking for a RHP.
You assume teams would actually want Tanaka (and his contract) and Pineda.
If the yanks keep floundering.Trade Tanaka and Pineda . Dodgers looking for a Right handed SP.
Tanaka to Astros
Why would the Astros want him. Morton and McHugh are leaps better than Tanaka at this point.
Martes has devastating stuff but a 2 cent head with control issues – Astros could move him and survive the “what if” later! Hell no on Tucker – he has Bellinger skill (Not saying production) and Hunter Pence awkwardness and likability. We could move Fisher before Kyle – we have the farm system to finish the deal but we’ve done great things with what we have and that’ll limit the need to mortgage the farm. We can do a Brad Hand and a Sony Gray to fill the spots without emptying the chamber!
You may not be properly valuing hand + Gray there, chief.
I’m less willing to move Fisher at this point because of how polished he is right now. He basically slots into LF next year with no learning curve once Beltran’s contract expires.
Your not getting Gray for a few low prospects. A’s already said they have not received any offer that is close to what they want for him. No tucker your not getting Gray. Don’t worry if you want to bargain shop A’s have Hahn available.
Astros have no reason to trade Tucker or Fisher. Guess what: next year Aoki and Beltran will be gone. So that leaves 2 openings, 1 in the outfield and another at DH. Perfect!
And by gosh, be patient with Martes. He looks fine. Jose Altuve had a career OPS UNDER .700 after 2 and a half years in the league.
I feel bad for guys like Kemp, Reed, White, Hernandez, and Moran that are blocked but have nothing left to prove in the minors. I wish we could trade these guys to good situations where they get playing time – for their own sake
Granted I’m higher on Paulino even with the drug pop. That curveball is probably the best the organization has seen since Wandy Rodriguez. Before he got popped he seemed like he was about to figure things out.
Martes has the stuff, but the control needs to greatly improve.
Tucker won’t be ready at the start of next season. It’s a chance for AAA guys to shine.
I also think the Astros could trade Bregman in the offseason for a pitcher. They have enough internal options to replace him.
Sounds like the Astros already missed the boat on trading Bregman for an ace if the reports are true that they didn’t want to include him in a potential Sale deal last winter.
Aoki and beltran usually don’t start on the same days so no it doesn’t open up 2 spots. Unless they want to play with Gattis at DH/C and Fisher at LF/DH (which makes sense)
He dropped into the 60s in latest prospect rankings. Should of traded him he had the most value
Which rankings? BA has him #48 (one spot better than Clint Frazier) He’s got some control issues to work through, but he’s 21. His ceiling hasn’t changed any, and it’s as high as any pitching prospect out there.
He dropped from 15th or so to at least. 48. His era is well over 5 and his almost 22 and you think he will get you Q? Keep Martes and drug abuser Paulino. Remember last year when everyone was saying No to Profar for Q. Rangers fans that is
Keep moving those goalposts.
The white sox can’t develop a position player. Their singing the praises of their shortstop now and he’s only a 230 hitter. No accountability with this sorry organization.
The Cubs cant develop pitching prospects… now they’re a below 500 team
When was the last time the WS were in the playoffs. Sorry is a good description. But they finally have a GM who seems to get it.
Sign darvish Cobb and Lynn . Problem solved
Congrats. You most likely just added at least $60-70 mil/yr to the payroll for the next 5 years for 3 pitchers in their 30’s.
Add that to Heyward’s $25ish mil/yr for the next 6 years. Add that to Lester’s $25ish mil/yr for the next 4 years. That’ll be somewhere between $100-120ish mil/yr for 5 players over the next 4 years, and that doesn’t even touch future arbitration/extensions for guys like Bryant/Rizzo/Russell/Contreras/Baez/Schwarber/etc.
Can the Cubs afford it? Absolutely. But it’s going to get real expensive real fast.
Just got Quintana cheap contract
Dodgers don want tanaka and nobody is going to give up all of that for quintana
Who brought up Tanaka or the Dodgers?
Sorry for some reason rit2940 post wasn’t there before and now it’s showing twice.
So happy Hahn is asking for the world for Quintana this way the Yanks don’t deal for him and keep there prospects and when Q value plummets considerably in the near future from over use we can ask the White Sox fans how they like their GM now?
He turned Hector Santiago into Adam Eaton… who brought back Lopez, Giloito, & Dunning. Sale got him Moncada, Kopech & Basabe (and diaz).
I like him just fine.
Just like Sale was going to lose all value because he was destined to get hurt before Hahn traded him.
Listen this is the bottom line. Fans can try to diminish his value with arbitrary stats. If that’s the case, then he has a 2.70 ERA since June. Not enough? Check out his career numbers. Still not enough? Top 25 in terms of WAR last 4 years. Granted he is not a true ACE, but he is a number 1 on a lot of teams, and a number 2 on almost every other team in baseball. Given his durability and team friendly contract, he is worth an “ACE” haul. If no team is willing to meet Hahn’s demands, the organization is just as inclined to keep him for the next 3.5 years on the club friendly deal. Imagine what he would do for the team as a frontline starter for the next 3.5 years, while the plethora of pitching prospects are called up by the end of next year. It’s as easy as that. But go ahead and trade for your 1/2 year rentals before the trade deadline, and when those rentals hit the FA market, and then those same teams go looking for a cost controlled SP in the offseason. Rick Hahn will still be sitting on Quintana and not budging from his asking price. Pay up or move on. It is as simple as that.
I have no problem passing up on Quintana to keep Torres, Frazier and others sorry they aren’t available, it’s funny how these teams never wanted to trade with us in the past but now all of sudden they do? Gtfoh we don’t need Quintana trade him to someone else and we will keep our future stars in the Bronx like I said if it means we get no one at the trade deadline then I am fine with that.
I’m not disagreeing with you at all. My point is that the Sox will not sell low on Q unless their asking price is met. If I were the Yanks, I don’t think I’d part with those guys either if that is their future. Yanks have an open wallet and could buy essentially any pitcher they want. But the teams that can’t afford a #1 starter at $30mm per year for 6 years, then this is the type of player that they would want and need.
You act like Q is the only pitcher available. Keep him and delay your rebuild. Maybe they can reach 15 years without a playoff appearance.
Ok keep them and continue to watch playoffs on tv. You have zero pitching. You have lost 20-25 because u have no pitching and will b near last place by end of season.
That’s fine we can keep our young future stars and go out and spend money to get starting pitching and not have to trade our stars away. I’d rather do that thanks like I mentioned before if we didn’t trade any of our big prospects for Sale then we sure as hell aren’t trading them for a lesser pitcher in Quintana no thanks bud.
That’s fine. You should keep all your future stars. Prospects always pan out. You’ll pretty much be watching an all-star team for years to come. Lots of stars. Everywhere.
Haha Yankees would be in first with Sale. I will continue to watch Sale strike out every yankeee hitter and he’s been doing
Im sure the yankees are regretting not trading for sale. They may not want to make that mistake again.
Didn’t they beat him? Continue watching.,,,
WS prospects will not all pan out either. Anderson has been great.
Chris Sale is overrated and we have knocked him around this year already I dont know what game you have been watching, plus he looks like a STICK FIGURE in a baseball uniform lol he will break down soon and I hope he does.
I didn’t know it’d be possible to top all your previous dumb comments, but this one comes prettt close. Good work.
Amen! People seem to be short sighted and forget he’s been very good the past several years. No, he may not get the haul the sox got from my Red Sox but he sure will get a massive return.
If that’s your bottom line, then please keep him….the responses to ChiSox posters in this thread are based on totally unreasonable trade requests by you guys……if your that sure he’s that valuable then keep him.
Yah, ChiSox fans are totally unreasonable in their trade requests.
Every Yankee fan – “Sorry, you can’t have any of our top 10 prospects. They are all going to be stars. You can take our 11, 12, and 13 guys. They’d be top 3 in any other system.”
Very true. But if they were to Trade an average pitcher he’s actually below average like TANAKA they would want your top three prospects and cash and a PTBNL
If the Jays would trade Stroman and Donaldson in one deal to a team, who would it be and what would be the price?
I HIGHLY doubt Toronto is trading either one of them, let alone both and let alone both in the same deal. Because the price would be huge and you’d be limited to teams with really deep farm systems that also have immediate needs at third base. The Yankees and Red Sox could both be fits, but a trade within the division would seem pretty unlikely. The only other teams that I could think of at that point would be the Astros (if they included Bregman) and the Braves, since I’m sure Adams will eventually cool down and Freeman will move back to first base. Anyway, that’s a very long way of saying that it barely makes sense to even speculate about that.
If th
If the nets was to trade Jacob I’ll stop being a mets fan
Yankees have better young pitchers in minors they can finish off and bring up. Maybe they spend more money than the past on pitching Developement.
Better than Quintana? Highly unlikely. The Yankees will be extremely lucky if any of them turn out to be as good as Quintana has been throughout his career thus far. Despite what Chris Drogaris thinks, not every prospect will become a star.
I would take Montgomery over Quintana. They need to bring Adams up and try a few others.
You’re more than welcome to take a worse pitcher if you want. Nobody is stopping you.
ABT!
Of course you would take Montgomery over Q you are a Yankee fan but you are not very knowledgeable about baseball. There is not one manager one GM in baseball that at this moment would in an important game would rather have Montgomery pitching over Quintana period. You guys crack me up thinking he is number 3 in your rotation he would be the number 1 and it wouldn’t even be close. If he got the run support that the Yankee lineup can provide he would probably be a 20 game winner. I am just saying that for all you fans that think win loss record matters. Pretty tough to win your team can’t score. Sale is going to find that out with the Red Sox when he finally will win 20 games this year.
What top pitcher in draft has been better than Quintana? Since 2012 only all star pitcher in first round is michael wacha. 2011 cole Fernandez and gray. 2010 pomeranz Harvey and sale. Sale is not getting traded, Fernandez deceased. so out of all of them who would you rather have? Aiken ,Appel ? Top pitcher prospects usually don’t pan out . Roll the dice or take a work horse?
My bet is Quintana will stay a Wsox,, at least, for the rest of this year and perhaps beyond. There aren’t many teams that have those kind of prospects and are willing to give them up. I won’t argue whether his worth the asking price or not but it’s sounds like neither New York or Houston feel they need him that bad, right now.
Astros have no reason to trade Tucker or Fisher. Guess what: next year Aoki and Beltran will be gone. So that leaves 2 openings, 1 in the outfield and another at DH. Perfect!
And by gosh, be patient with Martes. He looks fine. Jose Altuve had a career OPS UNDER .700 after 2 and a half years in the league.
I feel bad for guys like Kemp, Reed, White, Hernandez, and Moran that are blocked but have nothing left to prove in the minors. I wish we could trade these guys to good situations where they get playing time – for their own sake.
Astros need left handed pitching to beat Red Sox, Indians , Nationals or Dodgers. Can’t do it with current pitchers
I’d argue the Astros need a reliable/durable top of the rotation starter more than they need a “true ace,” which is why Quintana would be a perfect fit for them.
Obviously the top 2 guys in their rotation are very solid, but they apparently can’t count on either of them to stay healthy. If they can make it to the postseason with a top 3 of Keuchel, McCullers, and Quintana, that’d be absolutely devastating for other teams to face. Heck, even if one of their top 2 goes down, they’ll still have a legitimate chance for a championship run with one of Keuchel/McCullers plus Quintana leading the charge.
If all things work out perfectly and they stay healthy, Quintana would be a perfect fit. Worst case scenario, he’d be a heck of an insurance policy for them in case one of the other guys goes down. And yes, I know that any pitcher can get hurt, but Quintana has proven to be extremely durable thus far. I’d be much less concerned about him than anyone else in that rotation (or most rotations for that matter).
No one is saying Quintana is a bad pitcher the fact is though is that he’s not worth what the White Sox are asking for in return they are trying to fleece teams they did it to the Nationals in the Eaton deal but it won’t happen with us trading our future for a number 3 starter at best. I am fine with us standing pat if it means we keep all of our future stars look at us keeping Judge and Sanchez and not being tempted in the past to deal them off for short term success.
From 2014-2016:
#8 in ERA in the AL – 3.29
#5 in FIP in the AL – 3.19
#4 in fWAR in the AL – 14.6
2.70 ERA since June this year after an admittedly bad start
That all screams “number 3 starter at best” I guess
#3 on Yankees??? Who’s better I say he would b their number 1. Yankees have zero pitching
Still not worth giving up our future for Quintana we won’t be the ones getting Quintana I can guarantee that and I am happy about that let Houston get him or even the Brewers, just don’t want it to be us considering what the White Sox are asking for.
You cant guarantee that. Yankees are the team most liked to quintana. I actually believe hes a yankee at the deadline
If its not torres, frazier. It will be Rutherford. Etc.
Indians and cubs fans where saying the same things last years deadline. The indians took a big gamble. Trading away frazier and sheffield for miller. I bet the yankees do too
Won’t happen it’s funny how all you Yankee haters just want the Yankees to deal away all of our good prospects and then see them turn into big stars with other teams, WONT HAPPEN Torres, and Frazier are simply not available get it through your thick skulls.
I am fine with trading guys who’s names aren’t Torres, Frazier, Judge and Sanchez the big guns aren’t available sorry the other level of prospects can go that’s fine but not the guys I named sorry.
Kuechel has stated that he could play through his injury right now, but give the enormous lead and the fact that he wasn’t his usual self pitching through injury last year, they felt it was important to get him 100% healthy. McCullers has missed 1 start this year with a minor injury. The injury issue have been overblown.
Rutherford is Untouchable. Unless we are dealing for Sale and are one pitcher away. Rutherford may already be our top prospect after this year.
There is no health issue with McCullers or Keuchel. It’s purely an excuse to give them rest over minor injuries to make sure they aren’t worn out come the post-season.
A pinch nerve doesn’t keep Keuchel out for over a month if the Astros don’t have the record they do. Sam with back stiffness for McCullers.
Hahaha and they tell you all this because you’re a fan or you just know everything because you’re so smaaat
No health issues? McCullers only threw 89 innings last year. Keuchel threw 168. They both have already missed time this year with injuries. Luckily, they have built up a big enough lead that they can afford to rest both guys until they feel they are 100% and don’t have to pitch through whatever issues they’re having.
Personally, I wouldn’t feel comfortable counting on McCullers to come back and pitch a full workload and then be on top of his game in the postseason after never throwing more than 150 innings in his career. I’d rather have the Quintana insurance policy just in case he can’t do it. If everything goes according to plan, they have a lights out top 3. If not, they still have a strong enough top 2 to make a deep run. If you disagree and are comfortable with your rotation in the playoffs, more power to you. Good luck.
Agreed.. perfect way of putting it
Devenski and Harris are as good as any available lefty at getting lefties out. They don’t have a bunch of Lefties on the team, but as a team they’re first in xFIP vs lefties and 2nd in FIP vs lefties and 6th in ERA.
Plus the left specialist reliver is just a waste of a roster spot on a guy who if he is lucky will throw an inning in total in a given week.
Remember years back when Carl Everett said 90% of fans don’t know what they are talking about Might b higher. Let me get this straight. 3 months of Chapman is worth Torres ,Warren and McKinney but 3 1/2 years is not worth Quintana is not worth Torres or Frazier very interesting
Are you a moron? That’s because the Indians and Cubs were World Series contenders that’s why they made those deals because they felt they were 1 player away and they turned out to be right. We on the other hand are not World Series contenders at least not this year so why the hell would we trade away our future for the short term not doing it sorry. Your comparisons are not valid as to why the Cubs and Indians did those deals with where we are at right now get a clue.
Before calling someone a moron….I’m not saying they would do it either, but your argument is invalid as well.
“why the hell would we trade away our future for the short term not doing it sorry”
Quintana is a controllable asset, not a rental or even a two year “rental”….apparently you missed that. Also, apparently you missed the quote from Cashman earlier in the traderumors article
“Part of that long-term plan is in the short term — winning now”
None of this says they deal for Quintana, but they feel they are competing for a title this year AND Quintana would fit a longer term plan with his contract.
Doesn’t matter 3 years doesn’t translate into LONG TERM!!!!!!!!! Plus he’s not that good and another fact for you Yankee haters out there who want to see us trade Frazier away for a pitcher that you know isn’t that great. Frazier and Reggie Jackson are really close and Reggie works as a special advisor with the team and he won’t let the Yankees trade Frazier away sorry Frazier is here to stay now go to bed.
If you think Reggie Jackson actually has a say in who the team trades, you are really in over your head.
And no, I don’t think Frazier gets traded anymore now that he’s on the big league roster. Rutherford is now the more likely guy to go. But the reasoning that you stated is absolutely ridiculous.
Chris drugaris give ur mommy her computer and follow your own advice and go to bed my child. Grown ups are talking
You are a dumb yankee fan
Haha you haters are just mad that we have a great future with all these great young players and you idiots just want us to trade away all of our future for a guy WHO IS NOT THAT GOOD if he was so good then why are the White Sox in such a hurry to trade him? He’s got 3 years left on his contract so why wouldnt they just keep him if he’s as good as they are valuing him at, you know why because they know hes not as good as they want other teams to believe and are trying to deal him now before he either gets a serious injury or he completely falls off. Again we ARE NOT trading guys like Torres, Frazier, Judge, or Sanchez they want to trade anyone other than the guys I mentioned I am all for it if the Sox keep asking for any of those players then I am walking away. Also like Iv’e mentioned before Cashman didn’t want to trade any of these guys in a deal for Sale so why would he now trade those guys for a LESSER pitcher who’s not as good as Sale heres the answer hes NOT.
forget about Quintana…..he can stay!
Hahn needs to send Frazier to the Yanks for Wade/McKinney. Two 22 yr olds in AAA.
Send Swarzak to the Angels for 22 yr old Hermosillo in AA ball.
Send Robertson to the Rockies for 22 yr old McMahon in AAA and 19 yr old Welker in A
Send Kahnle to the Cardinals for 22 yr old Carson Kelly in AAA ball
The Cardinals didn’t want to include Carson Kelly in a Chris Sale trade. He’s not being traded for a reliever.
Include is the key word…..it would have been Kelly and more pieces.
Kahnle – 2.65 ERA, 54 IP, 57-7 K/BB, .210 avg against, 0,97 WHIP
Most importantly he is 27 yrs old and has several more years of team control. I don’t think it’s as far fetched as you may think, but I’m not sitting in the GM chair…..and neither are you.
Q is the new Tehran.
White Sox fans are begging everyone on here to take him for the best prospects on there team and it seems most are saying no thanks, keep your mid rotation arm. Move on! Keep him and build around your ace and when your ready he will be around 34yo.
White sox fans nor Yankee fans make trades. It will b cashman and Hahn or whoever. They don’t care what fans think. They don’t read these silly rumors. They know who they have and what they need. Why do fans begin with ok I will trade this guy but not this guy. Hello you aren’t trading anyone. No Gm knows you and aren’t asking for your input. I read these for laughs. I won’t trade so so. Hahahaha
Very true so why continue to list what prospects it would take to get a mid rotation arm who can’t make it through the fifth inning?
That’s my point, thanks bro. Thanks.
I didn’t list anyone for a trade. Pay attention. Thanks bro
I didn’t say you did, pay attention bro. Thanks Bro.
I was referring to others and agreeing with you in regards to silly offers for Q!
a discount chris sale package should get it done – meaning a prospect in the top 25, another in the top 50, and 2 lottery tickets. so if we’re narrowing it to these two teams:
yankees: frazier, rutherford, someone far away with upside like wilkerman or dermis garcia, and then a really deep sleeper
astros: tucker, whitley or perez, nova maybe?, and probably someone like myles straw
i’d like to see some of the reports on what offers are coming from these other squads instead of always seeing ‘sox have a high asking price’
Lol
That Yankee trade not happening. The first two guys in trade are untouchable!
You need to understand a teams system.
You are by far the dumbest yankee fan
Listen Yankee Fans. Stop worrying about Torres and Frazier! Not happening. Understand Rutherford, Florial, and Mateo are also 100% untouchable!!!!
Adams and Sheffield are close to untouchable. Acevedo and Mateo are borderline only for right price. Now please someone list every W start this year! How many pitches he takes to get to the fifth inning. Walks? Era? Etc etc etc…..
Got it. Everyone is untouchable. Now move along and watch playoffs on tv for third straight year or is it 4
Yep and build something great and you continue to wait for the Sox to be a playoff team with Q at 34yo and your fifth starter. I’ll take my chances. Keep him and stop crying.
With a WS fan. Is it 9 years or 12 years since you were in the playoffs? Does the play in game count?
As a Yankee fan I’m wondering why you keep saying that about Rutherford?
Because everything I’ve read is that Rutherford can be the best outfielder we drafted in a long long time. The kid could be a big left handed middle order bat in two years and Q is not worth that return.
That’s why in case the question was to me. I said similar things about Judge and Frazier when half of Yankee land wanted to deal them. We are not one pitcher away especially Q from doing anything g significant this year.
I certainly would not trade him for Q,but he is at least 4 years away. They could use him as a piece to bring a way better arm then Q.
He’s not four years away. He’s already in high A
Next year he will end season in AA
He will be up in two years barring no injuries. He is a legit five tool outfielder with his worse tool being his arm which as a left or. Enter fielder is not gonna hurt him since by all accounts his arm has potential to be avg to above avg eventually.
Dude he is in low A ball and there’s no way he’s gonna skip advanced A ball to AA. Cool your Jets very few players move that fast through systems,besides next year is the greatest FA class ever..i.e. Harper. Gardners gone so no room for him
Rutherford has hit one home run this entire season. I get he is a young player, but spare me on calling him untouchable, he has yet to prove anything.
LMFAO this guy is untouchable
I’d take Kyle Tucker or Ronald Acuna over any player in the Yankees minor league system….all day, every day
Add Lewis Brinson to that list as well…..
Really???
Good for you but I would sought based on the non factual guess you just made.
This #3 starter talk is hysterical. Dare one idiot on this thread to name 20 guys (better off 60+) that have shown more dominance and consistency over the past half decade in the MLB. Go!
Oh and he’s in his prime on a friendly contract. My bad
Everyone says that sox got a haul for sale. But did they really. Will Kopech b as good as Sale ? Will Moncada pan out? He seems to strike out a lot and his defense doesn’t seem to be all that great and he’s the #1 prospect. Buxton was a number one prospect so was Profar I’m sure their fans would of been don’t trade those guys for Sale !!
Nobody knows yet. They’re prospects. All prospects, except for Yankee ones according to some in this thread, come with question marks. What we do know is that Moncada was (still is) arguably the top prospect in baseball, and Kopech was (still is) a top 30 or so guy. Based on their prospect rankings, yes, the White Sox did pretty well. But we ultimately won’t know how they did for a few years.
Just for reference, since there’s a lot of Yankee talk in this thread, let’s look at what a Sale-like deal would look like for the Yankees. I’ll use the pre-season rankings at the time for the Red Sox players since those were their rankings at the time of the trade, and I’ll use mid-season rankings for Yankees, since that’s the most recent data we have.
1) Moncada (#1 MLB.com, #2 Baseball America, #5 Baseball Prospectus) – It’d have to start with Torres. He’s the only Moncada-caliber prospect they have. Ranked #2 on MLB.com, #3 on Baseball America, and #7 on Baseball Prospectus.
2) Kopech (#11 MLB.com, #32 Baseball America, #36 Baseball Prospectus) – It’d have to be one of Frazier or Rutherford. Frazier is currently ranked #17 on MLB.com, #49 on Baseball America, and not in the top 50 for Baseball Prospectus. Rutherford is currently ranked #30 on MLB.com, #36 on Baseball America, and not in the top 50 for Baseball Prospectus.
3-4) Basabe and Diaz. Basabe is a young, toolsy outfielder with a lot of swing and miss to his game and was ranked around #10 for the Red Sox. Diaz is a flame throwing reliever with control issues. Neither of them is more than a lottery ticket. Before this season, Florial would’ve been the obvious choice for the toolsy outfielder that strikes out too much. While that’s still the case for him, he has put up some very good numbers outside of the strikeouts this year, so he’d have a little more value than Basabe in my eyes. Then throw in a potential bullpen piece that throws gas but can’t get it over the plate – I don’t really care who.
Even then, that’s arguably not as much as what the Red Sox gave up. For one, Torres isn’t currently healthy. While I’m not concerned about him coming back 100% from his injury at all, he is still missing valuable development time this year. On top of that, both Frazier and Rutherford are lower ranked prospects than Kopech. So maybe taking that into account, adding in Florial (compared to Basabe) would actually make up for the difference in value between Kopech and Frazier/Rutherford.
So all in all, a “Sale-like” package would be something along the lines of Torres + Frazier/Rutherford + Florial + a bullpen lottery ticket.
That’s obviously not happening in a Quintana deal. If a deal does get done, I see it being one of Frazier/Rutherford (most likely Rutherford since Frazier is already producing on the big league club), one of Adams/Sheffield/Kaprielian, and one Mateo/Fowler/Andujar/Florial. That’s not even close to what Sale brought in, but I think it’d be enough to get the White Sox to pull the trigger, and the Yankees will still have plenty of top notch prospects left after the deal.
I know, all 9 of the guys I listed are future stars, so the Yankees won’t make a deal like that. Just trying to get a realistic idea of what it’d take based on previous trades.
So basically Sale for the guys they got in the Miller/Chapman deal Two total years of relief pitchers for 3 full years of one of the top 3 pitchers in baseball. Sounds like they didn’t get nearly enough for Sale.
Maybe, maybe not. We’ll see.
First of all there was a lot of Yankee talks because they were a team mentioned in the article. I see you a lot voicing your opinions on the Yanks and I’m wondering do you have a team? I just mainly see you in Yankees article threads picking at the fans.
I know why the Yankees are being talked about a lot in here. Just stating that’s why I was using them for that example.
I do have a team. I’m a White Sox fan. The main reason I’m in Yankees articles is because most of them are White Sox articles too these days.
And no, I’m not just “picking at Yankees fans.” I’m “picking at” ridiculous fans – this thread happens to be a Yankees-related one. For example:
If Yankees fans want to keep there prospects, that’s totally fine. Just know that you aren’t going to get a top of the rotation pitcher for a bunch of secondary pieces and cast offs. It’ll take at least one excellent prospect (one of Torres/Frazier/Rutherford).
And yes, Quintana is a top of the rotation starter. He has been one of the best pitchers in the AL for the last 4 years. I don’t know where the bias against him comes from, but he has been #8 in ERA, #5 in FIP, and #4 in fWAR in the AL over that period. He has been better than MANY guys that other people call “aces,” yet they’ll happily call Quintana a “mid-rotation arm at best.” Not even close to accurate.
Also, for reference –
I call Padres fans ridiculous when they think they can get someone like Robles for Brad Hand. I call them even more ridiculous when they say they could get that deal, but they don’t want him because they have too many outfielders in the system already. Throw in the ones saying Hand for Torres too. Not even close to happening.
I call Marlins fans ridiculous when they think the can get Devers or Groome for a Prado/Phelps package.
I call Cubs fans ridiculous when they think they can get a controllable ace (not Quintana) or top of the rotation starter without giving up Jimenez or anyone on their 25-man roster. I call them more ridiculous when they say, “We should just trade Schwarber straight up for Archer.” Clearly the difference between perceived and actual value is gigantic.
Heck, I’ll even call out White Sox fans when they make bad offers. Someone earlier wanted to trade Tommy Kahnle for Carson Kelly. Ridiculous. Someone else wanted Torres/Frazier+. Not going to happen. Someone else mentioned Happ/Jimenez+. Yes please. But not going to happen. An Astros fan made up a package of Bregman/Musgrove/Perez+. I told him that’s way more than enough.
I’m not delusional enough to think Q will fetch any of those packages. While I hope it’s true, I don’t see it happening.
Cool..I’ve stated that I don’t want Q but would like them to go after a good starter..who that is I can’t say. I have no problem with a package that starts with Rutherford,for one he’s years away and there’s a glut of outfielders now. Yea some of these Yankee fans are acting like these prospects will be up this year and all perform like Judge.
As a neutral observer I believe Whitley/Martes/Fisher/Daz Cameron is a fair return for both sides. Whitley is the headliner as he will rocket up midseason lists (I’m surprised BA has him at just 58 I imagine he will be higher on other lists). Guy has a monster ceiling and is very advanced for his age. Martes is very much a high upside/high risk guy, there is a outside chance he figures it out and becomes a mid rotation arm. There is a decent probability his inconsistency will lead him to back end of rotation or a possible 1.5 fWAR+ reliever. Quite frankly his profile is similar to other white sox arms such as Kopech/Lopez/Hanson.
Fisher a nice prospect, he’s fairly typical though. Seems like he’d be a well below average defensive CF but would be fine in a corner, he has a chance to hit for both average and power, but neither are locks and he has had swing and miss issues in the past.
Cameron is that typical 4th prospect wildcard, the likelihood of him getting to the majors and sticking is slim, but there is that 5% chance that his bat to ball skills evolve and that unlocks raw power+his athleticism and he unlikely becomes a stud.
Obviously the Astros don’t “need” Quintana but he’d help their odds greatly. In my mind I see Whitley as like around a top 25 guy (I imagine most see differential). Martes as a top 50-65 guy, and Fisher as fringe top 100. I imagine both sides hate the idea of this proposal. But this is a lot for Quintana without completely unloading the Astros farm they would still Tucker, Perez, Yordan Alvarez, Garrett Stubbs
Just an FYI, no malice behind it, Martes is currently number 15 prospect in MLB Prospect Watch.
He is #15 on MLB. Baseball America’s recently released mid-season rankings have him down at #48 though.
I noticed that. thought that was harsh. 21 yr old pitching in MLB is special tho. Would a Martes, Musgrove, Paulino, Franlin Perez package work? That’s 3 top 100 guys (MLB PW) including 2 current major league
Why would they want Paulino? He’s suspended 80 games for Peds. One more suspension and it’s a year. You might get shields for Paulino now
Yah, I was kind of surprised to see that drop too. He was pretty awful in AAA before coming up though, and he hasn’t looked great in the majors (albeit as a 21 year old), so I’m not entirely shocked he slipped a little in the rankings. I’m sure a package like that could work value-wise, but as I mentioned in another post, I really don’t love the idea of the package being centered around pitching. 8 of their current top 12 prospects are pitchers. Obviously you can never have too much pitching, but I’d just prefer to go the other route, especially since they went all pitching in the Eaton deal.
He’s young. Major league ready and still an elite prospect. The suspension hurts him but he still has much greater value than that.
BurlyCurly. Also didn’t the ChiSox trade for a prospect in the off-season that was busted for PEDs?..Kopech.
Maybe Houston doesn’t either know how to develop pitching or don’t know how to draft pitching. martez not so good Paulino not so good and suspended. Took whatever that pitcher name was over Bryant and took Aiken over Rodon. Have to say not so good I would be leery of trading Q for any of their pitchers
Priggs89. Honestly, I’d trade Bregman before i trade Tucker. most people might see that differently. But I would easily do a Bregman, Perez, Musgrove deal, throw in Moran or Kemp, before I deal Tucker.
Yes, they did. Kopech was apparently popped for some sort of weight loss drug that was also technically a “stimulant.” He claimed he didn’t know what it was and blah blah blah. I know he’s a guy that’s huge into his workouts, so if I had to guess, I’d assume it was some sort of pre-workout related thing. That’s just a complete guess though. Personally, that’s not the type of “PED” I’d be concerned about.
Not sure of the details on Paulino’s suspension or what he got caught with. If it some sort of steroid or something used to hide steroid use, that’s something I’d be concerned with. If not, it’s probably something I’d be able to look past as a GM.
Burly u obviously don’t know Martes and Paulino very well then. Both have frontline starter stuff. Paulino has 1 of the best curve balls of any prospect. And Aiken pick turned into Bregman so I’m not complaining. And 2013 nobody knew Bryant would be Bryant now. Appel was very much a consensus top 1 or 2 pick. We traded him for Giles anyways so take that up with Philly.
Man, that’s a tough one. I don’t think the Astros see it the same way. I think the only reason they don’t have Chris Sale right now is because they made Bregman untouchable. If they put him on the table in a Quintana trade, I’d take it in a second. Throwing in Perez/Musgrove/+? Yes please. That’s too much though in my opinion. Bregman plus one good, not great pitching prospect and maybe a low level lottery ticket guy would be plenty I think.
All I know is what I see in stats Martez sucked in the minors to the tune of era over 5 MLB over 6. Paulino MLB over 7 and suspended 80 games for using Peds. Did I leave anything out. Quintana has been in the league for over 5 years with era at 3.30. I don’t believe anyone would accept those two for Q
I believe had Bregman been available, ChiSox still take the BoSox deal. I think they preferred Moncada over any Bregman deal. sorry I commented twice. I didn’t see my first comment up.
Oh ok Burly so we’re only doing 2017 stats? how about 4.49 ERA and a 3.5 BB/9
You may be right. Obviously I have no idea what Hahn or anyone else in the Sox front office thinks about these guys. All I know is that when Chris Sale rumors started floating around, the top guy on my list of realistic headliners was Bregman. This year, my top guy for Quintana headliners is Rodgers from Colorado. But if Bregman was on the table, I’d strongly consider that.
Yes 4.49 is still better than 6 or 7. Don’t u think
Martes has only pitched 32 innings in the majors this season..i won’t even mention where Q was after 32 this season..Burly..
And what happened after the 32 innings. Is he still on team or did he get demoted
Paulino probably has the best curve the Astros have seen since Wandy Rodriguez. Even with the PED suspension the guy was performing well in MLB minus learning to get past the big inning.
Paulino was a guy who was in the big leagues because he knew how to pitch not over powering velocity.
So while yes it is incredibly stupid to get poped for a steroid he didn’t need, he is probably the better prospect than Martes. At this point I look at Martes is Jared Cosart minus the cutter that got him Ground outs to keep his ERA low.
Paulino’s curve isn’t as good as McCullers or Martes.
All fans excuse their PED users. If another teams guy does it he’s killing baseball. If “my” guy does it, there are valid excuses. Sports fans are bigger hypocrites than politicians.
All fans excuse it because nobody actually cares until someone gets caught and has to miss time.
Burly – Martes sucked in the minors? Do you even read and comprehend, bro?
2015 – 10 games in A (3yrs young for level) with 0.885 whip, 5.7 H9, 2.3 BB9, 7.8 K9, 1.04 ERA. Then 6 games in A+ (4yrs+ young for level) with 1.114 whip, 8 H9, 2.1 BB9, 9.5 K9, 2.31 ERA. Then 3 games in AA (5.5yrs young for level) and got hit and walked twice as many.
2016 – 25 games in AA (4.5yrs young for level) with 1.205 whip, 7.5 H9, 3.4 BB9, 9.4 K9, 3.30 ERA then posted extremely similar numbers in the AZFL (3yrs young for league)
2017 – he’s getting rocked because he’s 21 and at the 2 highest levels in professional baseball. HE’S INSANELY YOUNG. You’re delusional
I assume he’s dropping on all midseason lists. He still has a very high ceiling, but is now less likely to reach it. Not that he isn’t still a very good prospect, he was always seen as high risk and the risk has gotten greater
Would u trade Hand for him as a centerpiece?
Honestly, value-wise, I think you’re right about where you need to be for a Quintana deal to go down. The only problem I have is that the 2 “top” pieces (subjective, I know) are pitchers. I know the White Sox are at the point where they should be taking best player available, and you can never have enough pitching, but I’d be pretty disappointed if the best players coming back were pitchers. Personally, I’d take a slightly smaller package if it meant getting Tucker back (think replacing Whitley and Martes with a lower ranked pitcher). That’s just my personal preference though. But like I said, value-wise, I think you did a good job.
What about Bregman? Me personally, I would rather keep Tucker over Bregman but most wouldn’t agree with that. Bregman, Franklin Perez, and 2 more pieces. I’d do that before any Tucker deal but that’s my personally feelings for Tucker.
Yes, please
wonder what the tigers could get for fulmer if they shop him…if Philly or Atlanta is interested it could be interesting for sure. I think Philly can put together a better overall package based purely on potential centerpieces(Moniak,Crawford).
What if they put together a mega multi-team blockbuster. Sure the odds of the trade are .000000000000001% based on the talent of these guys but it’s fun to dream so…
Phillies receive: Micheal Fulmer, Bruce Rondon, Blake Treinen, Carter Kieboom
Nationals recieve: Justin Wilson,Shane Greene, Pat Neshek, J.D. Martinez, Jose Iglesias, Mark Appel, Micheal Gerber
Tigers Receive: J.P Crawford, Mickey Moniak, Sixto Sanchez, Maikel Franco, Victor Robles, Erick Fedde, Andrew Stevenson, Jesus Luzardo, Joan Baez.
It’s unrealistic but somewhat logical….Phillies add a young ace to pair with Nola, a pair of promising relievers, and they lessen their biggest loss in this trade by adding Kieboom who can instead fill the role they initially intended for Crawford..Tigers jumpstart a much needed rebuild, supplementing this haul with an Alex Avila trade and possibly Nick Castellanos, Ian Kinsler, Justin Upton, or JV, depending on contracts and player markets. It’s clear that the Nats window is now and this trade gives them everything they need to win a WS. They get the bullpen help they covet in Neshek,Wilson, and Greene with both Wilson and Greene coming with additional years of team control. They add an impact bat to their lineup in Martinez, and add a longer term asset in Iggy, who can fill in for Turner temporarily and also contribute beyond Turners comeback due to his versatility and defensive prowess. Only problem with this is it leaves Nats with a depleted farm system which they may be hesitant to part with, but as I pointed out their window is now and longer term assets are included in the deal. the tigers can part with an outfield prospect because of what they’re getting in this deal. I picked Gerber because of his age but someone else such as Hill, Azocar, or Jones can easily be substituted in. again probability of this trade is highly unlikely so please don’t trash me in comments I just put together this proposal for fun.
Nationals definitely get the short end of the stick there by way too much.
How about james paxton of mariners?He could be ace.Sure,his price is also high.
The cubs have too many position players and no pitching.. seems obvious to go after Sonny Gray. A package of happ, alomara and a throw in prospect should get it done.
Yanks go after Quintana and package together torres, bird, Austin and Gardner. They could even take on abreu if the sox are generous
Not happening Torres is not available the White Sox can have Mateo, Bird, Austin, and Sheffield for Quintana and Abreu.
yankees can have david robertson for that crap offer
Sorry but Torres and Frazier are not available in a trade and if we don’t get anyone because we wont trade those guys then I am fine with that simple as that.
Oh my God the White Sox would never make such a bad deal. Rick Hahn is a good GM. Not an idiot to trade Quintana and Abreu for that garbage offer of Mateo Bird Austin and Sheffield
Funny thing is most smart Yankee fans wouldn’t give up that haul (Bird, Mateo, Sheff, Austin) and yes it’s a haul for a mid rotation arm going forward who needs 100 pitches to get thru the fifth inning!
That sounds great! Why not swap Ellsbury for Trout too, I bet the Angels would go for that.
Cashman has already said that he does not have plans to mortgage the future to do so. No one really expected the Yankees to be in a position to compete so soon, and giving away multiple valuable pieces of the long-term future is almost certainly a bad business decision for right now. HAHAHAHA THATS RIGHT TORRES AND FRAZIER ARE NOT AVAILABLE
Quintana has a career 3.51 ERA in over 1000 IP. He is signed to a bargain contract while under control for three more full seasons, and is still only 28 years old.
That type of player could be incredibly valuable to the Yankees rotation if they plan on contending for the next several seasons.
Torres wouldn’t be involved, but Frazier would be considered.
Cashman has already said more than once that Torres and Frazier are not available what don’t you get? Neither guy is available Frazier is going to replace Gardner next year in LF so he’s not going anywhere.
I never stated that I expected Frazier to be dealt, I’m simply stating that his name is likely being brought up in trade talks regarding starting pitchers.
I like Frazier and I think he’ll become a good player. However, he is not this untouchable megastar prospect whose name dare not be mentioned in any sort of trade talks. His name can be brought up and considered in deals just like most other prospects.
Right his name can be brought up in trade talks and Cashman has the pleasure of hanging up the phone as well. We are not in a position where we are 1 player away where we need to trade guys like Torres and Frazier we just aren’t its the facts and just realize it it’s not even up for debate.
Well said Chris. Yankees should not deal prospects.
Quintana would be the number 2 pitcher in the playoffs for either Astros or Yankees. The Astros young pitchers are talented but have a hard time going pass 5 innings. Honestly the Astros need him more because as we seen with the Cubs you can’t count on this kinda of production year to year. You have to go for it while it’s in your grasps.
As a Yankee fan I am not trading any of our young future for Quintana the Astros can gladly have Quintana or any other team as long as its not us I am fine with that. I can’t wait for this trading deadline to pass knowing we still have all our good young prospects like ive mentioned before if Cashman was unwilling to trade these good prospects in a deal for Sale then there’s no way hes trading them for a lesser pitcher in Quintana just doesn’t make sense.
The Yankees weren’t in on Sale,so I don’t know where your getting that. Cashman has never singled out individual players as off limits and I’m a Yankee fan. Please come from the angle of hope and not act like you talk with Cash on these players. How long have you been a Yankee fan?
Are you high or just stupid? The Yankees were in on Sale after the Red Sox got Sale Cashman said they felt they weren;t 1 player away and thats why we didn’t get him. Ive been a Yankee fan my whole life and watch every single game and playoffs and what does how long me being a Yankee fan have to do with me not wanting the Yankees to trade Torres or Frazier for Quintana, ask any other Yankee fan with a brain if they would trade Torres or Frazier for a guy like Quintana and I can guarantee you they would all tell you HELL NO.
You’re the type of Yankee fan who just wants to trade away all of our future and then be left with all old guys making a lot of money and be left with nothing those were the old days that’s the way things are run anymore. Let me ask you honestly do you honestly think Torres or Frazier is worth trading for Quintana? I’d love to see your answer and be honest about it.
First of all I’m neither high or stupid and have been a Yankees fan since the 80’s. I for one never said that Frazier or Torres should be traded for Q and if you see my posts there’s that proof. Like one of my posts before I deterred billyballz on acting like Blake Rutherford is so close to the show and if a quality starter is available then make a move even if that includes him. You come across as someone who really doesn’t know what it’s like to root for this team in the lean years. Maybe I’m wrong but just don’t use terms like you know what Cash will do or won’t do. Don’t call people immature names and you aren’t the only fan. Cash being asked the question on Sale was from a NY reporter and doesn’t mean there was anything on the table!
Clearly the Yankees were in on Sale if Cashman gave that answer I read plenty of reports that the White Sox wanted Sanchez in any deal for Sale so clearly there was talks involving the 2 teams. So let me ask you a question would you trade Torres or Frazier for a pitcher like Quintana? I sure wouldn’t and I am sure a lot of other Yankee fans would agree with me as I said before Frazier is going to replace Gardner next year in LF and I don’t care if Quintana has 3 years left on his team friendly deal the guy is 28 years old and he’s bound to get hurt sooner rather than later. Why do you think the White Sox traded Sale because they were afraid if they didn’t trade him that he would get hurt and then they wouldn’t be able to trade him at all, that’s what the Sox are now doing with Quintana. They are trying to talk him up make him look better than he really is and trying to fleece teams.
Not even close to why they traded Sale. Good try though.
That is the reason get a clue nice try, the White Sox know Quintana isn’t as good as they are letting on.
You’re right. It has nothing to do with getting the best prospect in baseball and one of, if not the, top pitching prospect in baseball.
Just because a GM names a specific player on another team involving any theoretical trade, doesn’t mean that there have been concrete trade talks between two GM’s. All clubs do their own due diligence on every player. GMs blow smoke you can’t take anything they say as 100% fact, which is what you’re trying to lead everyone to believe.
I answered that question about Frazier and Torres in the second sentence of my last post..but I’ll reiterate NO! Gardner is not gone till after 2018 but I think the starting lineup when Hicks gets back is Frazier LF,Hicks CF,and Judge RF regardless of salary. The only trade they should look for is a better pitcher then Q and if Rutherford others besides Torres,Frazier,Fowler,or Sheffield are used that’s fine
I agree with everything you said there
Oh and Adams
Cub fan, preach on. You go for each year . No guarantee. We lost Torres but 2016 World Series champion flag flies forever at wrigley. Buddies of mine before game 7 saying if we don’t win tonight we will be back next year. You never know with baseball .
I understand that but from my point of view us trading Torres or Frazier for Quintana is simply not worth it, it’s two different situations you guys were 1 player away that made a difference we on the other hand are not that 1 player away team so it makes no sense to gut the farm system just because we are in contention right now. You have to think big picture instead of just aiming for short term success and trading either one of those guys for a guy like Quintana would be simply a huge mistake. Brian Cashman has already made it clear that Torres and Frazier are not available in trades he’s going to think about trading other guys before even considering trading Torres or Frazier.
Where has Cashman made it clear that Torres and Frazier are not available?
He has made it clear that he values winning in the short term as part of the long term process. He has made it clear that he’s not moving pieces that are going to be key guys moving forward. He has made it clear that he’s not going to give up valuable pieces for someone that’ll only help this year (a rental). What he has not made clear, as far as I’ve read, is who those “key guys” are. You seem to think Torres and Frazier are those guys. When I read that, the two names I think of are Judge and Sanchez.
Unless you can point us in the direction of something he said about keeping Torres and Frazier specifically, stop acting like he has ever come out and said they’re untouchable. Unless you have can show me quotes I’ve never seen, that’s strictly your opinion, not his, yet you continuously try to attribute it to him.
Yankees of course have won 27 and it was 108 years for my Cubs. Now that we won I wouldn’t trade future but you don’t think Quintana makes Yankees good enough now and in future (Quintana not a rental) to put you in deep postseason run?
No I wouldn’t because Quintana isn’t that good and if Cashman didn’t trade these big prospects in the offseason for Sale then it makes no sense to trade these guys now for a lesser pitcher than Sale, thats bad business. Mikel Grady there will be plenty of other starting pitchers out there in the next few years that we can sign who are better than Quintana and all we have to give up is money not prospects you have to look at the big picture we arent a 1 player away like you guys were last year.
Darvish Cobb Lynn will be out there too highest bidder. My fear would be what if they go to other teams and you are scrambling to get pitching. With trade you are guaranteed that player. I agree if you don’t think Quintana gets you to World Series this year or next two he is under contract then you pass. Torres is recovering from injury and never hit major league pitching while Quintana has stats on the back of his baseball card .
Not worth taking the risk he’s one big injury away and then what? Now we’ve traded away most of our future for a guy who needs tommy john surgery and probably won’t be as good no thanks I’ll pass. Let me say this the White Sox won’t get what they are asking for him from anyone no GM out there is that stupid and desperate enough to cave into the White Sox’s demands for a guy who’s not a ace they are trying to get a Kershaw type of return on a number 2 or 3 pitcher at best it just won’t happen.
You clearly underestimate what it’d take to get Kershaw, or you don’t understand what the White Sox are actually asking for.
Isn’t every single player in the MLB “one big injury away…”. For a guy who has no injury history, saying that’s the reason not to trade for him seems pretty short sighted.
Quintana would be the number 2 starter for the Astros assuming one of Keuchel or McCullers is injured.
Here’s a Yankees fans opinion on the direction of our team and the fact that we are more than one mid rotation pitcher or perhaps to be fair a decent number two in Quintana away from being a serious contender! The White Sox are asking high and hoping Cash settles at Rutherford, Adams, and Mateo.
Rutherford is untouchable!!!!!
Mateo and Adams would also be top prospects for most teams around baseball. That is a fact! The Yanks are loaded and shouldn’t overpay since Q not making them better then three to four teams in the AL! White Six fans on here are throwing out every deal because they want to improve there team and that makes sense and the Yanks do have the best if not one of the best farms in baseball. But the Yanks have a plan which is sustained success and going forward what is Quintana? He’s no ace! He’s at best a second and more likely mid rotation arm for next few years which is great but we have plenty of mid rotation arms without surrendering a chunk of the farm.
I would offer no more than Mateo and few other lesser prospects for a pitcher who can’t make it past the fifth inning and is truly a mid rotation arm going forward. And I actually think Mateo has chance to be a real exciting player!
Billy where are all the Yankee mid level starters as good as Q..even though I don’t want him. Please stop with the Rutherford is untouchable because..1 he’s years away and they will go after Harper in 2018. 2. Rutherford probably will and should be used for a starter that could get them to the playoffs this year.
I would stay far away from Harper first of all we don’t need him and secondly the amount of money that he wants the Yankees could use that money to go out and sign 3 starting pitchers. With Frazier in LF, Ellsbury in CF who they arent able to trade because of contract and Judge in RF there’s no room for Harper on this team. Signing Harper on the Yankees would be a big mistake and he would be a cancer in the clubhouse because he’s all about himself and thats not the Yankee way everything with him is Bryce comes first and then the team is second and we don’t need that type of player.
Remember Reggie,Winfield,Clemens and certainly Ricky Henderson all had strong personalities. The Yankee way is winning and one of the top five players who is exciting and in his prime gets you there then hell yes. Ellsbury can be used as a DH if not somehow sent away..i.e. Trade or maybe his injury history will get the best of him. With a team of Harper-Judge-Sanchez in the middle of the order sells tickets,gets ratings,and will win on the biggest stage in the world..NY..
Stop with the Harper bullshit!
You have zero knowledge of the Yanks will give him what it will take. And if he stays with Nats or goes to west coast team then you traded away Rutherford a potential number one prospect when Torres comes up for a pitcher who guarantees what?
Dude layoff the red bulls because Harper and the Yanks is gonna happen. “Potential” vs Proven..well answer that one. Low A,Low A,again low A..Rutherford won’t be up anytime soon..look how long Frazier was in the minors and still might not stick.
Are you serious?
Severino!
Montgomery!
Adams!
And we have more coming!
Kaprielian will be back. There’s allot more then you realize.
Tanaka is a good number two and sometimes a three or a one!
There will be free agents to go after.
I hope you were kidding.
Tanaka is 67th out of 72 qualified starters in ERA. He’s 58th in FIP. He’s one of the worst starters in the league.
Oh. Is that not how we are evaluating players if it doesn’t suit our argument?
True and Quintana has been avg if not below based on that thinking so I guess we can trade you Three b level prospects for him now rather than Rutherford, Florial, Frazier, Torres, etc etc etc.
That’s would actually be an improvement to what Yankee fans have been offering. But this argument is pointless – I didn’t think the Yankees had any B level prospects? Everyone is a future star and would be a top 3 prospect in any other organization.
None of what you’re saying is correct right now let alone Tanaka isn’t what you said he is. I can’t believe I’m say this but Priggs89 is correct on Tanaka,and omg Adams hasn’t faced one big league bat,Severino isn’t considered mid rotation,Kaprelian won’t be back soon and was in THE MINORS.
So what’s Tanaka to you?
If he’s a fifth starter after last year being an ace ok stats don’t lie!
But then what’s Quintana? I get the sense you really don’t know any of your prospects except Torres and Frazier!
Stop arguing with idiots who want the Yanks to deal Torres and Frazier. Not gonna happen.
Rather Learn who Rutherford and Sheffield and Adams are. Don’t act like dealing them isn’t awful since you consider them excess when in fact it’s not about excess! It’s about what the market dictates and more importantly what makes sense for the Yankees. If you took tine and read scouting reports you would understand how quickly can rocket up and understand how valuable he is. Sheffield is a young lefty in a system barren of good ones. Florial has superstar potential but in his case potential can have a ceiling and a floor. Saying that I hope you read more about the prospects on your team rather then say we can’t keep them all do let’s deal them for a pitcher who appears headed for middle rotation downward.
Was this meant for me? If so..well I do know about Yankee prospects! You can’t support arguments on a few guys that are years away,no matter what their ceilings and floors are. If you understand prospects then you should know low A ball for Rutherford doesn’t mean he’ll be ready very soon,again Frazier was in the minors 4+ years. Yankees need quality starters now and Rutherford isn’t gonna be a factor this year. Adams even though in AAA with innings limits and others to start isn’t gonna factor probably till September. I’m for trading for a quality starter but not hell bent on it,but if Cash works a deal I’ll accept it regardless.
Hey bro if you think one starter guarantees playoffs and are willing to sacrifice a few of our best prospects you are in the minority and may not realize how hard it is to build something sustainable. Pitchers Cone and ho. Positional core players do not.
One and two or even three starters don’t come and go and yea I realize what it takes but do you other then seeing what the Cubs did.
Quintana is 45 in era 40 in whip and 27 in BAA. Thanks not a high #2? If he is on Cubs who have great defense I’m sold on him . Maybe why I’m not a gm:-) . If Yankees had him what would they want for him? I bet There will be a war for him and white Sox will come out with a haul.
Judge never mentioned in Sale trades!
Always s Sanchez and Torres and Frazier. Sometimes Rutherford! You read wrong.
All the California team trade to each other why can’t White Sox trade big with the Northsiders both teams can win don’t give Q away
Oh I’m a Cub fan but both teams could profit
I’m a cub fan to and agree. If Cubs offer best deal they will (should)trade. What do you think? Happ and cease? Caratini candelario dela Cruz ? Jimenez and ?
The White Sox are asking for a package that you would trade for pitchers like Kershaw, Scherzer, and Bumgarner they are delusional and won’t get what they are asking for let them keep Quintana it just makes no sense to me that they value him as high as they do and if hes so good then why not just keep him for yourselves and build around him? Them not trying to do that just tells me they dont really value him as high as they are telling other teams. Hey Rick Hahn you can keep Quintana thanks but no thanks.
That’s exactly why their asking price is so high. They can keep him…
If Q is so damn good, why has he not been traded for. He is a 500 pitcher.
Out of all the dumb comments in here, I think this one might be the best/worst. Congrats!
Yup totally agree at least someone else on here has a brain, Misterg the White Sox are overvaluing him and are hoping a team is dumb enough to cave in to their demands and it won’t happen. Also if he was so good like they are talking him up to be and hes on a team friendly contract then why don’t they just keep him for themselves? Because they don’t truly believe he’s as good as they are letting on about him.
I’m beginning to think you don’t know how negotiation works.
I know exactly how negotiations work and that includes us not trading any of our top players for a guy who’s NOT A ACE!!!!!!!! Get it through your thick skull Torres and Frazier are not available let the White Sox trade him elsewhere there’s other teams out there who’s interested.
youtube.com/watch?v=O3taXGUArcg
Any fan using wins and losses to evaluate a starting pitcher is not very knowledgeable.
Seven Yankees made the updated top 100 list, the same number that made the preseason list. A few of the names have changed, however. Here’s where the Yankees rank:
3. SS Gleyber Torres (Preseason: 5th)
36. OF Blake Rutherford (Preseason: 45th)
48. OF Clint Frazier (Preseason: 39th)
55. RHP Chance Adams (Preseason: Not ranked)
70. OF Estevan Florial (Preseason: Not ranked)
72. LHP Justus Sheffield (Preseason: 91st)
88. OF Dustin Fowler (Preseason: Not ranked)
Adams, Florial, and Fowler jump into the top 100 while preseason No. 85 Jorge Mateo (poor performance), No. 87 RHP James Kaprielian (injury), and No. 90 OF Aaron Judge (graduated to MLB) fell out of the top 100. Looking back, it’s pretty funny Judge slipped from 53th to 76th to 90th on Baseball America’s preseason top 100 lists the last three years, and now he’s an AL MVP candidate (favorite?) as a rookie. Good times.
The lists changes monthly as Mateo started poorly and recently with promotion is on fire again!
Frazier, Torres, Rutherford, Florial, and Sheff are in my opinion untouchables going forward at least for the near future. No aces on the market to consider dealing any of them.
This is so classic Yankee fans that were telling Red Sox fans they were prospect horders and unrealistic about there prospects when they had the best farm in baseball are now the prospect horders and completely unrealistic. Funny.
Hey Red Sox fans how does it feel to know we got Frazier in Yankee pinstripes when you guys wanted to draft him before the Indians did lol thank god Cleveland took him and now we got him big thanks to the Indians for trading him to us last year.
No room in the inn for Frazier the Red Sox outfield is pretty good if you haven’t noticed.
Lol Frazier would be the worst outfielder in Boston.
Yeah you say that now you wouldnt be saying that though if you had him classic Red Sox fans response LMAO
Not a Red Sox fan… Try another excuse.
Anxiously awaits – “You’re just a Yankee hater then”
Lol you are a typical Yankee hater look at all your past comments on here its all about bashing the Yankees you even know you are that’s why you mentioned it yourself, you get a gold star for the day go home and tell mommy the good news.
You caught me.
If you could actually comprehend what you’re reading, assuming you can read, you’d see that pretty much none of my comments have been “bashing the Yankees.” If anything, I’m “bashing” delusional Yankee homers that have no idea what they’re talking about, present company included.
No you just want the Yankees to trade away all of our good prospects for players who SUCK, you are the delusional one and the one who’s mad because no smart Yankee fan on here agrees with you about trading away our future. Let the White Sox go make a trade with a different team meanwhile in years past no teams wanted to make trades with us now all of sudden they want to make deals nope sorry go away.
wait…
Betts yes!
Benintendi? Probably thus far. Who else?
Jackie Brdley Jr.????? Uhhhhhmmmmmm….
Yup you’ve got it. Enjoy all your top 30 prospects. They are all going to be stars in the near future. Any organization would be lucky to have any one of those guys. Every one of them would be top 3 in any other organization’s rankings. SO good
Yes, Jackie Bradley Jr. I’ll happily take the centerfielder that can play gold glove caliber defense and put up an .830+ OPS every year. I know, the Yankees have 5-7 of those guys in their system, so it’s probably not as impressive to you guys, but I’d be happy with it.
Don’t be so obvious! Jealous? Of course any non Yankee fan wants them to empty the farm or gut a big part of the top 10 for a pitcher whose pitching like a #3 this year and I get it! do! But Ill trust my GM and you keep proposing arm chair trades and if a trade happens Im sure it will be a smart one for the Yanks this year and the future. If a trade doesn’t happen don’t go crying mad at Yankee fans because we didn’t take your semi ace pitcher off your hands.
Exactly!!! This Priggs guy is so hung up on wanting to make a trade with the Yankees why because we have a lot of good players, too bad they aren’t available go make a trade with the Twins maybe they will trade you that BUST Joe Mauer for Quintana LMAO
“Hung up” when I’d prefer to make a trade with the Rockies, Cubs, Brewers, or Astros. You’re really good at this.
Good go make a deal with those teams leave us out of it we don’t want that overrated, overvalued, garbage Quintana want no part of him.
Aw, someone’s angry. Go grab a Snickers.
Priggs, stop wasting your time with East coast stupidity. These are the exact same people who said Sale wasn’t worth it. Perhaps there’s some deep seeded resentment now that they have to watch him dominant their Yankees on regular occurrence. Also, gotta sting knowing that he’s the difference between them an AL east lead. 3.5 back of the Red Sox. Sale WAR of 4 thus far. But let them keep talking about win/loss for a pitcher. It only fuels the East coast stupidity thing. It’ll be even tougher for them to watch the Astros who are 3 steps ahead of them and possibly 4 if they’d like to add Quintana.
Confused. The Yanks are in semi rebuild and are contending. Does that upset you?
You would be confused. Because your GM is linked to acquiring players and making a run.
Move along.
Haha hardly has Sale dominated us we beat him the last time in Fenway no? Get a clue and a brain if your going to argue.
8 innings, 8 hits, 0 walks, 3 runs – 2 earned, and 10 K’s.
That’s good for a 2.25 ERA, 1.00 WHIP, and 11.3 K/9. He “lost” because his team scored 0 runs (that should show you how pointless W/L is for a starter).
His career stats vs the Yankees are even more ridiculous:
11 games (8 starts), 1.31 ERA, 0.843 WHIP, 10.4 K/9, 5.92 K/BB.
Yes, that’s absolutely dominating.
Hahaha
Troll stop already.
Dude you keep on trolling. East coast what? Because we don’t want to gut our farm for s pitcher who is not making us better then Astros!
Why are you so upset over that?
You have no baseball accumen whatsoever. It’s hilarious reading your boneheaded NY bias. You continue to set your fan base back as THE WORST in all of sports.
I just find it rather ironic that now the Yankees have one of the best farm systems that everyone is untouchable but when Red Sox had the best farm system they were all overrated and prospect huggers you guys are too funny.
Bruin1012 all I am saying is that Quintana is not worth trading Torres or Frazier anyone who knows baseball knows that it would be a horrible deal for the Yankees, they are trying to get a package that you would trade for Kershaw, or Scherzer not for Quintana. Just because the guy has one or 2 good starts everyone wants to go crazy like he’s the next Randy Johnson its ridiculous.
You made it abundantly clear that you weren’t interested in trading either one of them when you said you wouldn’t trade either for Mike Trout. We get it. You “know baseball.”
Yeah I wouldn’t trade them for Mike Trout, Frazier has been compared to the next Trout so no I wouldn’t trade him. Quintana ia garbage and you know it he pitches in Chicago where no one goes to the see the games no one cares there’s pressure he would come here and would melt under the bright lights of NY and be just another Pineda.
Funny. Sounds like the same things people were saying about Sale when he went to Boston.
Yes they was a silly comment as a Yankee fan.
“Yeah I would not trade them for Mike Trout, Frazier has been compared to the next Trout…Quintana is garbage”
That right there loses any credibility you might have. Trout is the best player of this generation and would be worth nearly any asking price in a hypothetical trade.
Quintana is garbage? Stick to the couch, as I bet nearly every GM in baseball would beg to differ with you on that one.
Priggs89, are you on the Soxtalk forum? If not you should check it out. Lots of quality posters on those message boards.
Ohhh wow you think Severinonis an ace already and because Adams hasn’t faced one big league batter he’s not projected to be a mid rotation arm?
What are you watching and reading?
Chris I never advocated that they trade Torres and Frazier but I do think they can make a package around Rutherford that the White Sox would l never said Torres and Frazier.
“Like”
Only really ignorant people would compare anyone to Mike Trout who happens to be the best player of our generation. I have never heard Frazier compared to Mike Trout and I think this is the safest thing I have ever said won’t even be close to Mike Trout. Don’t compare anyone to Mike Trout you are just setting yourself to be let down.
Don’t feel Rutherford is a good enough prospect to headline a Quintana deal. 1 home run so far this season is a bit concerning for a player that projects as a corner outfielder.
Projects to be cf and I read up on the one home run thing and not a concern one bit from scouts who love his swing and five tools. He actually moved up BA rankings into the 30 range ahead of Moniak. Don’t stress Rutherford. He’s not headlining any trades for Q.
Depends on what you want Rutherford actually profiles as a centerfielder but he is young. Cashman isn’t trading there current starting Left fielder or the injured Torres so the next logical guy would be Rutherford plus Sheffield and another piece one top 50 another top 100 that should work for Q. Now maybe Cashman thinks the Yankees have no chance to win the division and he is probably right the Red Sox haven’t even really played that well yet this year but have the better pitching and ton of home games in the second half so maybe Cashman has factored that in maybe he doesn’t do anything this trade period.
Rutherford + Sheffield is not enough.
When the Yankees got Frazier last year I read that scouts had compared him to Trout, I’ll see if I can find it and post the link here.
Bruin here you go
google.com/amp/www.courant.com/sports/baseball/hc-…
Shortstop Jorge Mateo, catcher Gary Sanchez, outfielder Aaron Judge and pitcher Luis Severino were thought to be the best of their minor league system before the addition of shortstop Gleyber Torres from the Cubs and Frazier from the Indians. New York views Frazier, the fifth pick in the 2013 amateur draft, as a Mike Trout-type player.
Cmon man they always say some type of player but there is absolutely zero percent chance he will be as good as Mike Trout. I’m pretty sure if the Angels called and said hey we like Torres, Frazier, Rutherford and Sheffield and we will send you Trout Cashman would have them on the next plane so fast it would make your head spin.
I don’t remember Yankees fans calling out Red Sox fans for hoarding prospects. Not sure why anyone would care. Picking up Sale was smart because they are in title contention mode. The Yankees trading the farm for one mid rotation guy when the rest of the rotation is not going to get them to the World Series isn’t a good idea. If anything, it seems like Red Sox fans jab at Dombrowski for emptying the cupboard of prospects.
Exactly.
Maybe jealousy or worry that the Yanks are building a young competitive team for YEARS! Fans from certain cities specifically dread the thought! Why are they so concerned with the Yanks competing this year when any knowledgeable fan knows Q is not moving the Yanks past Houston, Cleveland, and Boston!
Listen don’t bother debating anyone who compares a rookie to mike Trout. It’s beyond silly.
Even in a down season, Quintana still has the #26th best overall FIP of any qualified mlb starting pitcher. How is that a #3???
They don’t know the concept of FIP or how it applies to the game. Don’t bother asking.
All of the mud slinging on here is rather comical.
The local sports radio show did a segment this morning on this very subject. The consensus of the group was the asking price is not too high. It simply comes down to his value to the team he is currently on versus the value they would be receiving in return. He is just simply too valuable right now. It makes more sense to keep a valuable piece then to send him somewhere for a pieces that aren’t as valuable or haven’t proven to be as valuable yet.
Then he will maintain his spot in the CWS rotation
That’s somewhat to be expected and most Sox fans and media like that idea if that’s how ends up.
He would be a stable, talented and cost controlled top end of the rotation.
Quintana to the cubs
Hope so
While i agree that’s a perfect fit, I think that would have happened by now. It sounds like Theo isn’t ready to part with Jimenez but I think a Gray or Quintana deal is going to take Happ or him. Schwarber isn’t going to cut it (see Detroit).
Can you imagine Quintana pitching against the Sox in a couple of weeks? Crazy
It will be Eloy and a few other minor leaguers for Q. They won’t have to give up any pros.
I guess I was right about that!!!
Winner winner