The Twins are “checking in” on a few starting pitchers around the game, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (via Twitter). Minnesota is seemingly limiting its interest to controllable arms at this point.
That’s not terribly surprising to hear. After all, the Twins are still treading water in the AL Central and AL Wild Card races. And GM Thad Levine said recently that the organization “would be very open to spending aggressively on assets that we could use to propel our team forward this year and for years to come.”
As noted in that above-linked post, the Twins have an obvious need — both now and in the near future — for reliable starting pitching. While there’s little reason to think that the team would part with significant future talent just for an immediate upgrade, it makes sense that the club would value the chance at contending this year while also considering arms that could bolster the roster for a few more seasons to come.
Rosenthal notes that Jose Quintana of the White Sox and Sonny Gray of the Athletics are two pitchers who’d likely appear on Minnesota’s list of possible targets, though it’s not clear whether the Twins have eyes for either in particular. He also suggests Dan Straily of the Marlins as an option, though again there’s still no indication that he’s specifically on the radar of Levine and chief baseball officer Derek Falvey.
Of course, those sorts of pitchers — Quintana and Gray, in particular — figure to draw interest from many other organizations. Those two have done so for quite some time, in fact, with the continued demand perhaps also representing a big reason that their respective organizations have felt comfortable waiting to deal them.
At this stage, there’s still a lack of clarity as to how the market will develop. Quintana and Gray might spur bidding wars; certain contenders could pivot to more affordable rental pieces (or even relievers); and/or we could see other long-term rotation assets (such as Julio Teheran or Gerrit Cole, among many other possibilities) reach the market to meet the demand. The level of involvement of teams such as the Twins will very likely play a role in dictating those developments, though the question remains whether Minnesota will press to get a deal done for a new starter.
Nick Gordon, Stephen Gonsalves and Alex Krillkoff should get it done for Quintana
Twins won’t trade gonsalves. Maybe Gordon
Hahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahaha. The twins are desperate for starting pitching but they wouldn’t offer those 3 for Quintana. Then the farm would literally be bone dry.
Quintanna is too much of a risk for the twins. No way they make that trade
how so?
A team like the twins cant sell their best prospects for a guy like quintanna who has struggled this season. The ceiling needs to be a bit higher for the pitcher they get
its also not a good look for either team to deal players to a division rival and have them come back and destroy you for the next several years
Higher ceiling? Q has around 3.50 career era in 4 plus seasons with zero injury concerns.
It is hilarious reading people’s comments that he isn’t worth this or that. He is an established 1-2 pitcher,28 years old, and has three cheap years of control. That is worth a ton.
Its hilarious how white sox fans think quintanna is a number 1 pitcher. A 3.50 ERA is nice but that doesn’t make you a 1. He was a model of consistency but is not going to blow teams away. Sonny Gray and Gerrit Cole have the celing of a #1 starter. Why do you think Q hasn’t been traded yet? Teams dont want to meet the ridiculous asking price that was supposed to be a “sale like” return
If you’re name’s not Kershaw, you’re a bum according to a casual fan’s “assessment.”
Fans don’t value consistency and stability. Nor do they understand how difficult it is to maintain an ERA below 4 over 200+ innings for multiple season’s. GMs know better, which is why they want Quintana in their rotation.
Never said he was a bad pitcher. But to say someone with a 4.49 ERA this season is a #1 pitcher is crazy. He desevres a cole hamels package. Not a Sale
GM’s know better? Yet no one has given the white sox what they want from him. He was a solid pitcher behind sale but not a #1.
Not even close Hamels was older and more expensive than Q. And if you are going off just one season how was gray last year?
Q hasn’t been traded because he doesn’t need to be. He’s not gone after this season. Either teams give what they ask or hold onto him, either is fine for the sox as far as I am concerned.
Yet he is the number 1 on our team. He is also a top 30 pitcher in a league with 32 teams. Strange how that works out
You realize cole and grey have era in the 4’s this season as well. And that’s with one pitching in the national league and the other in a pitchers park. Your points are not valid and come off very uninformed on Jose Quintana
Hang on a second here. How are we judging “better ceiling”?
Is it ERA? Quintana’s last 3 years were 3.20, 3.36, and 3.32. Those rank as 7th, 9th, and 13th in the American League.
Is it FIP? Quintana’s last 3 years were 3.56, 3.18, and 2.81. Those rank as 7th, 7th, and 8th in the American League.
What are we looking at? And by the way, great job contradicting yourself.
“Sonny Gray and Gerrit Cole have the celing of a #1 starter.”
then
“to say someone with a 4.49 ERA this season is a #1 pitcher is crazy.”
Sonny Gray has a 4.00 ERA this year after a 5.69 last year. The only time his FIP was lower than 3.45 was his rookie year when he started 10 games.
Gerrit Cole has a 4.43 ERA this year after a 3.88 last year, AND he’s pitching in the National League. I’ll give you that he showed potential to be an ace in 2015, but he hasn’t done it in either of the last 2 years. And he has been worse than Quintana this year, while pitching in the NL.
In the AL, Quintana was 8th in ERA, 5th in FIP, and 4th in fWAR from 2014-2016. Nobody is going to claim that he didn’t struggle at the start of this year. The stretch from the start of the season until June was the worst I can remember in his career. That being said, he did a heck of a job bouncing back and has pitched to a 2.70 ERA in his last 7 starts (1.7something in June), and 5 of those 7 games were against potential playoff contenders, not mediocre-to-horrible (CHW twice and ATL) like Sonny has beat up on in his last 3 starts.
He’s a #1 on a pretty good amount of teams (albeit still not an ace) and a very high end #2 on the rest.
Teams like the Twins also have to be more careful than a large market club than can absorb a hit should the player get hurt. An injury to a “controllable asset” that cost the team multiple young assets could set a team like Minnesota back several years.
Exactly someone who finally understands. Twins cant take the risk on Q like a large market team can. Cole and Gray are the much safer bets for Minnesota and actually have playoff experience.
Couldn’t have said it any better. Amazing how uninformed many fans are on how good Q has been, even while pitching in the American League in a hitters park.
Quintana has never been injured. Gray is coming off a year where he only pitched 117 inning due to injury. Gerrit Cole has only thrown more than 138 innings once in his career. I think you’re proving the exact opposite point… Quintana is a much “safer” option (safer in quotes because no pitcher is truly safe).
Cole and grey are “safer bets” that’s is truly unreal. Priggs just got done blowing you away how they are inferior to Q.
It’s truly comical to see you say gray and cole are safer bets and have higher ceilings.
Your honestly gonna say Gray and Cole is better then Quintana no way in hell they are Cole hasnt lived up to his potential and gray is always injured put Quintana in a team that will give him run support he would have a way better track record
They all have an ERA in the 4 and you are acting like Quintanna is just far and a way better. If i told you kershaw was better than Quintanna you would probably get triggered too. I even said Q desevres a cole hamels package which is fair. Dont get so mad that people think the sox deserve another moncada for Q
They all have an ERA in the 4’s and you are acting like Gray and Cole are far and a way better…
Again, please tell me what stats we are using to judge who has the higher ceiling and who is the “safer” option for the Twins.
People are triggered because of your contradicting points, statements without stats/ facts supporting them etc.
No white sox fans think Q is better than Kershaw.
Just just loose all validity in any arguments when you start saying cole and gray are safer bets and have higher ceilings.
You are twisting my words. I never said they were far and away better. I said they were the safet bet for the twins which is 100 percent true. Cole had an ace season in 2015 and has a much higher WAR this season despite their struggles. Like i said for the 3rd time now. A cole hamels package is appropriate for Q. If you think he deserves a top 10 prospect in all of baseball you are crazy
Both cole and gray have injury concerns, Q has zero. That alone makes Q the safer bet. Also, you just tried to cherry pick a few stats. A few post earlier priggs gave a great statistical breakdown.
And this all started with the twins, and the twins do not even have a top 10 prospect, so it doesn’t matter.
Ok, how are they safer bets when they have both had injury issues already?
Cole did have an ace-like season in 2015, and he has never done it again. I’d argue that Quintana had an ace-like season in 2014 when he outpitched his ERA by half a run according to FIP.
Cole’s bWAR is 0.5 higher so far this year (Gray’s is 0.3 higher). Quintana’s was 3.5 higher than Cole’s last year (5.6 higher than Gray’s). You willing to just throw that data out after already referencing data from 2015 and 2017?
Oh yah, we also have fWAR we can reference. Quintana’s is twice as high as Coles (2.0 to 1.0), and Gray is sitting right in the middle (1.5).
How is Gray at all safe?!?
I feel like Quintana is the safest bet out of all them but also has the lowest ceiling. He’ll normally give you a 3.30-3.50 ERA and can be relied upon as a good number 2 pitcher. Cole and Gray however have the ability to pitch like one of the top pitchers in the league when they’re on, it’s just you never know what you might get from them. And I get what dodgerfan is saying. If I’m the twins, I probably wouldn’t sell the farm for any of these guys. The only young, controllable pitchers I’d target at their stage in the rebuild is probably archer or fulmer and they are going to require monster packages.
Gray and Coles best seasons are much better than Quintannas top season in the bigs hence the higher ceiling statement. As for injury concerns unfortunately it can happen in a second so to say Q has 0 concern is stretching it. This isnt even about comparing the 3 non stop. Its the fact that the white sox are demanding a sale like package.
Who in the Twins farm is “another Moncada”? There’s no one close.
JDgoat thank you. Thats exactly what i was saying. Q has the lowest ceiling which is why the twins cant trade gordon, krikloff and gonzalez for him. He is the safest bet to stay healthy but the twins need someone who can be a #1
Archer’s ERA has been up around 4 each of the last 2 years. The 3 seasons before that were 3.23, 3.33, and 3.22. Quintana’s last 3 years were 3.20, 3.36, and 3.32. Up until this year, their career FIPs were within 0.01 of each other, and Quintana’s lowest year was 0.09 lower than any year Archer has had. The only thing Archer really has on Quintana is strikeouts… And if you want to use strikeouts for your argument, just know that Fulmer is the lowest of the 3 and only has 6.5 K/9 this year (and the highest career FIP). He is the youngest though, so I’d add that to his trade value.
Sonny Gray and Gerrit Cole have the hype over Quintana. That’s it. Nowhwere near his production or fitness (those guys get injured).
So you’re using wins and ERA to judge the “best seasons” then? Because according to FIP, bWAR, and fWAR, they haven’t had any “much better seasons.”
FIP has their best seasons as:
Cole (2.66 – in the NL), Quintana (2.81), Gray (3.45)
bWAR has their best seasons as:
Gray (5.8), Quintana (5.4), Cole (4.5)
fWAR has their best seasons as:
Cole (5.4), Quintana (5.1), Gray (3.7)
Scratch that. Wins would only work for your argument for Cole. He has a 19 win season under his belt. Gray’s best is 14 – Quintana’s is 13. I guess we’re set on ERA.
Oh really they are? I didn’t know you talked to Rick Hahn? Obviously the asking price is high, no reason for it not to be.
And the sox got two top 20 prospects in that trade with one being arguable the best proespect in baseball, so no I don’t think the sox are asking for a similar package to sale.
Price is high, but not that high
There were 4 top 100 prospects in that Hamels deal.
Amen, brother.
I never onced used Wins to judge a pitcher. I dont have time to look up every signle pitching stat on earth like bWAR. You just proved my point hamles got 4 top 100s but none of them were extremely high ranked. I think nick williams was in the 20s. the White Sox farm system is stacked and if they can add say 3 more top 100s they would be in great shape. Good luck lets see what Q fetches them if he even gets traded at all
You need to stop saying hey are asking for a Sale like package. It was always a lie and it’s become tedious.
So you’re just going by which pitchers you perceive to be better/have a higher ceiling, despite having nothing to back it up besides ERA and your feelings?
2 top 50’s and 2 in the 80-100.
So, in Dodger speak, that’s like Buehler, Verdugo, Diaz and Calhoun.
The fact that they haven’t panned out doesn’t mean they weren’t this highly sought.
Yes priggs you dont have to be such a tool about it. I think cole is better and thats my opinion. pplama buheler and verdgo moved way up on baseball america. A dodger package would be Alveraz, sheffield, stripling and calhoun.
Not trying to be a tool, just trying to get on the same page and see where you’re coming from. It’s kind of difficult to have a logical debate with someone when their opinions aren’t based on any facts…
And the list trade that pplama mentioned is actually based on Buehler and Verdugo moving up in the rankings. As he said, 2 top 50’s and 2 in the 80-100. Alvarez has dropped significantly on Baseball America’s mid-season list; he went from 26 to 60. Buehler is now at 17 and Verdugo is at 35. Calhoun is up to 74, and Diaz is unranked (although he does check in at 90 on MLB.com). That deal fits what he was saying, or at least comes close enough.
Cole Hamels was way better than Quintanna when dealt to Texas and is better than Quintanna this year with with Hamels injury problems.
Quintanna has never missed bats.
ERA is facts. I even mentioned WAR. just because someone doesent use fWAR or Bwar doesent mean they didnt use stats. Trading buheler, verdugo, calhoun and diaz for Q would be crazy. There is no way he will get a package like that and the next 3 weeks will prove that. When Q gets traded we will see on the article here who was right
You’re the one that said he’d get a package like the one Hamels got, which included 3 guys in MLB.com’s top 60 (51/55/59) plus a couple other guys.
Using MLB.com’s rankings, pplama’s deal is pretty similar… Verdugo is 50, Calhoun is 69, Buehler is 78, and Diaz is 90.
If you want to use Baseball America’s update instead, Buehler is 17, Verdugo is 35, Calhoun is 74, and Diaz is unranked. Based on those rankings, they’d be giving up a little too much in pplama’s deal. If you replaced Buehler with Alvarez (60 in Baseball America’s rankings), then you’d have a very similar deal to the Hamels deal.
Who are you referring to as a Top 10 in all of baseball? Because the Twins sure don’t have anyone ranked near that high.
And if you think Q is only worth a “Hamels” package, you’re the one who’s not paying attention. Aside from his rocky start this year – which he has turned around exceedingly well – he’s been a Top 10 pitcher in all of baseball for three years, and he’s young, cheap and controllable. Whichever team trades for him will be making an excellent addition.
Check your facts. The deal (7/31/15) was Hamels, Jake Diekman and cash to the Texas for Jorge Alfaro, Alec Asher, Jerad Eickhoff, Matt Harrison, Jake Thompson and Nick Williams.
Only two were in the preseaosn BA Top 100, neither in the top 30: Thomson (43) and Alfaro (67).
While he’s never been injured, he also has more mileage on his arm than most his age. I just can’t see the Twins giving up quantity AND quality for anyone, especially not a number 1. Q may become a #1 butt he’s not today today.
Facts checked. MLB.com had Thompson 51, Williams 55, and Alfaro 59 on their 2015 list.
You are correct about Baseball America’s Top 100. Nick Williams did not make their list. He was OPS’ing .836 as a 21 year old in AA at the time of the trade though (after OPS’ing .834 in A+ the previous year), so I’m sure he wasn’t far off. He even jumped up to #27 on their list after the 2015 season, and he only played 22 of his 119 games in 2015 after the trade. That should tell you enough about where his value was at the time of the trade…
Also, I just took a quick look at the Baseball Prospectus 2015 midseason list, and all 3 guys are ranked in the top 50: Nick Williams #21, Jake Thompson #30, Jorge Alfaro #34.
That still is not “four Top 100s” (and zero top 20s) in the Hamels deal, and you must remember that Texas also got more than just Hamels (Diekman and $). So you can’t say all of that prospect value was attributed to Hamels’ worth.
Younger and controllable, Quintana is worth more now than Hamels was then.
You’re right, it’s not 4 top 100’s (and zero top 20’s), which is why I said:
“If you want to use Baseball America’s update instead, Buehler is 17, Verdugo is 35, Calhoun is 74, and Diaz is unranked. Based on those rankings, they’d be giving up a little too much in pplama’s deal. If you replaced Buehler with Alvarez (60 in Baseball America’s rankings), then you’d have a very similar deal to the Hamels deal.”
None of Verdugo, Alvarez, Calhoun, or Diaz are top 20 guys. Heck, none of them are even top 30 guys. Based on Baseball America’s rankings, that’d arguably be less than what Hamels brought back.
d571-
Williams was Baseball Prospectus 2014-2017 #88, #71, #25, #51.
MLB 2016 #54
BA 2014- #97 and 2016- #27
That’s why I Yusniel Diaz, He’s been on and off top 100 lists.
They line-up. I’m not saying that Q is worth anywhere near this, just that d711 is a goof.
Ummmm, are you counting the Sugarland Skeeters?
Based on their overall talent. Just because Quintana can put up decent stats for an irrelevant team doesn’t make him elite. It’s not a given that he can come into a new team and find success. These other aces have been under the spotlight for years, Will he succeeed for a contending team in pressure situations? It’s risky. You put way too much into stats..the other guys can pitch better period.
They were demanding a Sale like package because Q had one more year of cheap control on his contract than Sale did when he was traded. No one is saying Q is as good as a pitcher as Sale.
How do you define “overall talent”? Are you trying to claim that they throw harder or have better breaking balls? If so, can you prove that? Also, even if that is true, why does it matter if those things don’t produce better results? I’ll answer for you – it doesn’t.
“These other aces have been under the spotlight for years”
Yah, the spotlight in Oakland, Pittsburgh, and Tampa is sooooo blinding… Sonny Gray has pitched 13 postseason innings. Gerrit Cole has pitched 16 postseason innings. Chris Archer has pitched 1.2 postseason innings. When are all these guys pitching “under the spotlight” in “pressure situations”?
“You put way too much into stats..the other guys can pitch better period.”
Sure. They “can pitch better period…” based on nothing but your imagination and obvious biases.
Every outing is a pressure cooker for Q. He knows if he gives up 1 run, he loses. He has a terrible defense behind him and terrible receivers behind the plate. And yet, once again, in this “down” year he’s # 15 in WAR and will end up over 4 again.
Also the WBC meant a lot to him. He dominated.
well put my man
dodgerfan711 He may have the lowest ceiling, but I think he has the highest floor as well. All three pitchers discussed here are struggling this year, but Q appears to be righting his ship and I would expect that he ends with an ERA of around 3.75, which his high for him, but still a good year for most pitchers. I have no idea where Gray and Cole will end up, which, to me, is a mark against how safe and valuable they are. It all depends on what you find valuable, I guess. Either way, it’s a moot point. I think the Sox would rather trade crosstown to the Cubs than inter-division when they’re rebuilding and a lot of the Twins’ talent is young. They’re not a win-now team as much as a win-next year team.
Wanting Q in rotation and valuing ERA under 4 are good points. But that does not make him an ace. He just is not at that level
Then hold on to him. Who cares. Then next year he has 2 years of control left and not 3 and the value starts to diminish.
His “value” is the team friendly contract. Solid track record of 200 innings. Those have value. No question. But it does not make him an ace
You think the MLB has 32 teams and YOU’RE the one trying to tell people they don’t know anything about baseball?
Wow, you are stupid.
Quintana is about as low risk as there is. No injury history, and consistent (even with this “off year”) he will end up with a 3.5-4 WAR.
Quintana is a good pitcher but that trade would be ridiculous and incredibly stupid for the Twins. You know you just listed 3 of their top 5 prospects, right? The only way the Twins, or just about any team, trades away prospects like that is either for a top 10 pitcher or position player or if they think they are one player away from a chance at a WS title. Since Quintana fulfills neither of those, this would be a dumb idea for the Twins. Again, he is good but a low #1 or high #2 starter (25-40 range IMO at the moment) and the Twins certainly need more than one piece,.
You’re right. That is 3 of their top 5. And honestly, I don’t even think that’s a very good offer, which is why I don’t think they’ll get one of the top starters. Their farm system just isn’t very good (not counting anyone that was just drafted). They don’t really have the top end talent that many of the other rumored teams have, and trading away what little top end talent they do have (Gordon, specifically), will hurt them significantly more than if the Yankees traded a Frazier or Rutherford, for example.
THIS DODGER FAN trolls anything that has to do with Quintana. So he can say anything bad about him. To get under the skin of white sox fans. smh sorry dodgerfan711 your not hurting Quintanas trade value
Not particularly interested.
I’d love to see Gerrit Cole “reach the market to meet the demand.”
The clock is ticking on this Boras client. Let’s hope he pitches well the next month.
I never would have said this before the season, but now it wouldn’t surprise me if the Braves deal Teheran this year.
Value is down and what are they looking for in return? They may be better off holding and hoping he gets back to serviceable number 2 or 3 starter
Like us I’m sure GMs are able to see his splits at home and away and realize he’s got a mental block happening at STP. Away from there he’s been stellar.. I could see Hou , Clev and Minn being interested.
I thought he was gone last year for sure this year with there kids will be here next season but he could be there Ace he young also.
Come on Cubs
Na, whose going in that rotation next yr?????
Folty, Newcombe and………? Coppy already has to have an ulcer watching Alex Wood. He’s not gonna trade another young controllable arm who can contribute now.
He’s gonna trade Sims, Sanchez, and any other young sp who can’t be protected from the Rule 5 Draft in the coming year.
As a twins fan I see them holding onto their prospects but they’re probly willing to move some lower tier prospects or a guy like Eduardo Escobar for a middle relief type pitcher that won’t be in such high demand, (not Neshek or Hand). I want us to win but I also know we are a smaller market with the pohlads the biggest tight wads in the league. We trade the farm for 1-2 years of winning and back to mediocrity for 10.
This group of Pohlads are far from tight wads. There are no payroll constraints. The team was bad due to poor decision making by Terry Ryan then Bill Smith the Terry Ryan again. Not to mention their approach to scouting and drafting was poor. Jim Pohlad has said numerous times that there is no salary cap as long as it makes sense. Their biggest fault is their loyalty to their own. Hence the extra long leash with Terry Ryan.
“Jim Pohlad has said numerous times that there is no salary cap as long as it makes sense.”
___makes sense___
Weasel words.
Are the Twins going to sign Bryce Harper? That wouldn’t “make sense”?
Twins don’t have the farm system to trade for Q or Gray.
Sure they do, but I don’t think it’d be smart of them to go after either.
Maybe Edward Jackson can be bought by the cheap twins lol but Maurer is there ? Right
Edward Jackson and Maurer…right.
They do, keep in mind they can trade from this year’s draft class
They can’t trade players from this years draft to after the World Series is over. They also can’t be the PTBNL if a trade happens now. At least that’s my understanding.
You’re correct on that, but the Twins have plenty to get either of the two pitchers in question. Whether they’d actually part with the young talent required to do so is another story.
They can’t trade from this year’s draft class until after the World Series if I recall correctly.
They changed that rule after Trea turner had to play in the minor leagues for the Padres even though he was traded to Washington. It’s my understanding that anyone can be traded at any time after they are drafted
No. Players drafted this year cannot be traded until after the WS. Cannot get around it by using a PTBNL, because they must be eligible to be traded when the trade is agreed upon.
Not for one year
check again, they have plenty enough to make a move if they want too
In your opinion what would the twins have to give up for Q or Gray?
I would guess gorden, Romero or gonsalves, and Alex Kirloff or wander Javier. Matt said if I was the twins I wouldn’t give up that much instead I’d see what I could give up and get straily from the Marlins.
I dont want either
Nick Gordon and Stephen Gonsalves is a good enough duo to headline a deal. Gordon is a high first round pick with as good of bloodlines/pedigree you will ever find. He is extremely athletic, is sticking at SS for now, and is only 21. He played to expectations in his first full year in 2016 and has taken a huge step forward at the plate now in 2017. He will likely be MLB ready next season. Gordon’s speed and defense make him a high-floor prospect who will likely be at least an average regular in the MLB. He is a top 30 overall prospect.
Gonsalves is the Twins’ top pitching prospect. He just turned 23, is left-handed and has been laying waste to AA hitting for two seasons now. He has 65 K and 12 BB in 58 IP this season. Gonsalves’ best off-speed pitch is his changeup, showing his advanced feel for pitching and making him slightly less injury-prone than fastball-slider lefties. Gonsalves is probably MLB-ready right now and I would not be surprised at all to see the Twins call him up during the second half if he is not traded. Gonsalves’ solid four-pitch mix and command make him a high-floor prospect, although his lack of elite velocity/stuff probably limit his ceiling to a 2/3 starter. He is a top 100 overall prospect.
These two plus other prospects (Granite, Kirilloff, Jay) or young players off the Twins’ MLB roster (Kepler, Rosario, Vargas) are more than enough to put together a winning package for Quintana or Gray, but it’s unlikely the Twins would pay even this price. Nobody is giving up two elite prospects for either of those pitchers – they are not Chris Sale.
The problem isn’t that the Twins don’t have any elite talent. Nick Gordon is a very good prospect, probably bordering that “elite” territory if he continues to produce like he has so far this year. Gonsalves is a good pitching prospect, although like you said, he doesn’t have the highest ceiling. He’s a borderline top 100 guy. He was in the 90’s to start the year and has moved up on MLB’s list to 70 but fell off Baseball America’s list. They most likely could put together a package around those guys that’d work.
But like I said, that’s not the problem. The problem is that they would NEED to include both of those guys plus more. That would be devastating to their farm. Other teams, like the Yankees for example, would be able to put together a better package and still have an excellent farm system. Unless the Twins are convinced they are 1 pitcher away, it just doesn’t make a ton of sense for them. That’s my opinion on it at least.
Neither Gordon nor Gonsalves is an elite prospect at this point. Being the top 2 prospects in a bad system isn’t indicative of being elite on its own.
Gordon is getting really close to that tier, but as of right now, I tend to agree.
exactly they can definitely put together a winning package I just don’t think that they will!
If a AL team trades prospects for a NL pitcher, he had better have a high K% or you will have wasted your home grown talent.
Agreed. I think the only NL guy I’d go after that “may” be available is Bumgarner. And I feel like he won’t actually be available, that it’s just a pipe dream. There’s other guys I like, but they are part of the best teams in the NL so that’s not happening.
I don’t see how the Twins can pry any of the five pitchers mentioned. Also don’t know why they’d help the Sox by bidding up Q.
And I don’t see why the Sox would help the Twins by trading them Q. The Sox want to compete in 2019 or 2020, so why make a division rival better in that timeframe?
A trade for Quintana doesn’t hurt either team, plus the Sox are years away from contending. Division rivalry is moot in this case.
I think it’s a bigger problems of a team trading with the prospects because they could beat them for years
Gerrit Cole would be a huge get for the Twins. Would be fun to see them acquire him and watch him have a C.C. Sabathia -Milwaukee Brewers type impact down the stretch, go get him Twinkies!
No thank you.
I hope the twins are looking for more mid-rotation and solid back-of-the-rotation starters. we don’t need a stud picture we just need someone who’s consistent. straily sound good or possibly if Tehran is available and not that expensive.
I don’t see why the Braves would make Teheran available for cheap. With his cheap club control, they have no reason to trade him while his value is so low. It’d only make sense if someone was still willing to offer a huge package for him, which is doubtful. Otherwise, they should just keep him and either hope he rebuilds his value or use him as a rotation piece for the club going forward.
agreed I doubt they make him available. I just throwing out a name I’d be interested in if it were possible.
Aaron Nola?
Lol, just want a phillies fan would want
No. But they have a plethora of young, average, controllable starters to deal. Nola is definitively part of the Phils future.
I don’t see how the twins would have the prospect capital to get any of the controllable starting pitchers. Many others interested teams could easily beat their offer.
I see zero chance twins could get Q.
You can’t compare what the Twins offer to all other possible offers from every team. You have to compare it to what other contending teams will actually offer for him. Recent history shows that teams aren’t willing to give up a ton to get him so the Twins definitely have enough to compete in that market.
I think the Twins can get more of a starter with less shine, Gray with injury concerns, Straily not a big name, perhaps Matt Moore of Giants
maybe better in Alex Cobb
I like those ideas more than a big name we don’t need an ace we just need someone who is better than Gibson/ Santiago
I have a feeling the A’s won’t trade Gray
I can certainly understand why the Twins want to improve their pitching, but I just don’t see them being able to acquire one of the better starting pitchers available. I think it’d be much more likely the Twins settle for short term guys that don’t cost them their top three prospects. They simply don’t have the high number of top prospects the other bidders would likely offer for the best options.
I think Cleveland is going to end up running away with the division and WC is out of the question. The Twins should follow their own example of years past and develop home grown talent.
The problem is, they’ve had a very time developing pitching talent. That may change under the new front office, but it’ll take time to find out.
I think they’ll try to develop but I also feel like they’ll trade excess position players for pitching and that could happen soon. SS is a deep position right now. Gordon is the more known prospect, but there are other guys who could develop too.
That should have said “they’ve had a very hard time developing pitching..”
I sure hope they don’t lose what few valuable prospects they got on a Q type of player
A team going from the worst record in baseball to contention?
As much as I like to see the twins in the playoffs it’s not going to happen
Don’t sacrifice your future for a couple arms they may or may not work out
I don’t think it’s going to happen, but anything is possible. In the past, Twins went from worst team in the league to World Series champion the next year.
Also, to add, the Twins are going nowhere unless they get 1-2 more starters and some BP help. They can’t win without that, not this year or next year and so on.
They have 1-2 starters in the minors who are near ready but can you guarantee they work out? Pitchers fail at a high rate, especially Twins pitchers. The Twins window to win is now. The position core is only controlled until 2020 or so. If not now, when? At some point you have to go for it or you will forever be rebuilding. If they trade for a good controllable pitcher, it will make them better for this year and years beyond. No guarantees, but at some point it’s go time. It’s not like they are saying they want to trade the farm for a rental.
I just don’t see the A’s and Twins matching up for a Gray trade. A’s need a CF prospect that is ready now. The Twins have mostly prospect still a year or 2 away. at the earliest.
Zach granite
I enjoyed AJ playing for Sox, but have no desire to trade Q to Twins for any more of their players.
Twins should go after someone like Michael Wacha. Would be cheaper than the likes of gray or quintana with similar upside and the same length of control.
Hellickson or Cobb
Neither is controlled beyond 2017.
Hellickson isn’t going to cost much either.
Correct. Phils will practically give him away. Probably would only cost a very young MiLB talent; a proverbial lottery ticket.
Tampa is hanging in the WC race. They’re not selling, at least yet.
what a joke,each pitcher listed has an ERA 4.00 or higher,less then 1 K per inning,and is not an ACE,so why would you give up our magic beans for these guys?
That’s just short term guys
twins would be better off picking up a cheap rental,like Trevor Cahill
Crazy three team deal where the Braves get Quintana and the Twins pick up Tehran, give up Romero+ to the Braves, they send prospects to sox to cover the difference?!? Too made scientist?
Yep to much macgyver
Maybe a package of Nick Gordon, Alex Kirilloff, Travis Blankenhorn, and Lewin Diaz from Minnesota could get Quintana from Chicago. Gordon is a Top 50 prospect and Kiriloff is a Top 100, per MLB.
No way. They don’t have much interest in quintana, plus they would never buckle to the chi sox demands.
why? negative run differential and only 2 above .500. why sacrifice future to try and chase an outside playoff shot?
count your lucky stars and stay course.
No matter what the Twins need 1-2 SP and and some BP help. If they don’t get it this year, they’ll still need it next year and the year after. FA only gets you so far. It’s not a go to baseball destination so trades will have to happen at some point. The Twins have Gonsalves and Romero near ready, but you can’t guarantee they will work out. The Twins have spent years saying “just wait until so and so comes up from the minors.” The Twins have had an extremely difficult time developing starters and their stud relievers in the minors keep getting hurt.
At some point the Twins have to make themselves better now and for the near future or they waste the years of Buxton/Sano etc. Unless they are extended, which hopefully they are, there is only a three year window. I’ve already watched the Twins waste away the 2000s by never trying to get better. I don’t want that to happen again. Nothing is a guarantee but go for it as far as non-rentals go.
Buxton is wasting his time with Minnesota all by himself.
I disagree, but I value defense after watching the Twins go offense over defense for most of the last 5-6 years. You want players who do both, but if you keep putting terrible defenders out there, you are purposely hurting your team unless the player has an elite bat. I mean the Twins still have pitch to contact players so defense is gigantic and they have one of the biggest defensive turnarounds in MLB from this year to last year.
I do want him to hit better than he is overall obviously, but he has improved. Since May he’s hitting .241/.300/.353 which is way better than how he started out. His K% and BB% have also gotten better. The avg CF is hitting .264/.335/.431 this year so it’s not like he has to light the world on fire to be an elite CF.
so you trade bulk prospects for the riskiest type of player SP and hope for the best (with holes elsewhere).
trade Dozier for MLB ready pitchers. A SP really isn’t less risky than a top prospect.
Did Dozier’s value suddenly go up and I didn’t realize it? He’s hitting worse this year than he was last year at this same point (not by a ton, but still) and has less controllable time. What contenders need a 2B? The Brewers and Indians are all I can think of. And the Indians only because Kipnis keeps getting hurt.
Besides SP and a few BP pieces there aren’t “holes everywhere.” They need a better SS and DH, but that’s it as far as offense. I’d still trade Gordon if I needed to, but it would depend on the SP in return.
I’m for trading Dozier, but until they get multiple contenders in a bidding war, they’re not getting much for Dozier. If they could get Luis Ortiz from the Brewers or Triston McKenzie from the Indians I’d likely want them to do that trade. I’d be surprised if they could get any more than that.
A better Twins -White Sox deal would be a 3 team trade….
Twins get Swarzak
Angels get Escobar
White Sox get a prospect
This right here is the definition of ignorance. If we wanted Swarzak, we wouldn’t have ever dropped him in the first place. I’m surprised you didn’t just have Escobar going back to the Sox.
Let’s cut the crap Jose Quintana is not an ace. Just because a team has a crappy pitching staff and Quintana is the best of the bunch that does not make him a 1. What he is, though, is a pretty consistent mid-rotation piece on an average pitching staff. 2017 has been an up and down year for Jose. He had a stretch where he was putrid, L ND L… etc…and then, on the road, goes 8 scoreless. If the sox want to get the return they feel he’s worth, quintana needs to start stringing together a slew of quality starts because I guarantee, contending ballclubs will not have interest otherwise and will look elsewhere.
Listen impactrookies you are what we call a MORON. Maybe some people have called Quintana an “Ace” but he is not an ace. There are maybe 4-5 “Aces” in all of baseball. What he is though, is a number 1 SP on a most teams and a number 2 on virtually every other team. He is a durable, coat-controlled SP and the RIGHT side of 30(28). Controlled X 3.5 at.
Virtually every team wants Jose Quintana as their #2 starter. Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?
Virtually every team, huh? I’d grant easily that he wouldn’t be the #1 guy on the Dodgers, Nationals, Red Sox, Diamondbacks, Astros, or Indians, but on most of the other teams, he would be at least in contention for #1. It’s amazing to me how a guy can put together 4 years of high-level, consistent pitching, struggle for two months to begin the next season, and now people think he’s no more than a “mid-rotation piece on an average pitching staff”
I agree with the around 5 aces in the MLB but there are also only 5-10 guys I would consider a number 1 starters then 20ish number 2 starters and Quintana would be towards the back end of that group. he is not a frontline starter
Not a White Sox fan but the reality is under no measurement is Quintana a mid rotation arm people need to stop saying that. If you look over the last three years at advanced metrics he is a top 20 starter period end of story . If you want to say he is not an ace sure I completely buy that argument. If you want to say that you wouldn’t trade your top 3 prospects for him sure I buy that too but when you call him mid rotation arm based on what he has done in half a season then you loose all credibility. Call him what he is a really good pitcher with the track record to back it up.
How dare you try to bring logic into this argument. Arguments should be based strictly on how you feel about certain players, even if there’s no evidence to back it up.
I agree he is not a mid rotation guy but he is also not a dominate frontline starter he is the definition of a guy with 2-3 starter potential he is over powering, dominate, or even a stopper. He is a guy who is consistent that puts up good not great numbers
When you play an unbalanced schedule, you also get unbalanced and distorted stats. Quintana is a piece and on a good team is a number 3. You don’t bet the farm on a 3. CWS will find a taker but the price will need to come down. If not, CWS still have two more off-seasons and three more trading deadlines. They aren’t in a stressful must trade situation.
This year he hasn’t even played up to that standard.